Wagner released

[NorthHawk]

I have to wonder whether bad DL play in front of him lessened his effectiveness. Keeping LB's clean makes a lot of difference in how they play.
Having said that, father time catches up to everyone at some point.

[Agent 86]

Worst thing is they didn't even telling him they were releasing him face to face:



Defend them all you want but I think John and Pete are botching this rebuild.

A bit of devil's advocate here. In today's age, I often hear players find out about trades/releases from somewhere else before the team actually contacts them. I am big NHL fan and have heard countless interviews where players said they found out before the team contacted them directly. In this case I don't know what happened, but I imagine it got leaked out before Pete/John were able to get hold of Wagner. Definitely not the way it should have happened.

But did Bobby Wagner have to make this the first thing he said about the team? Could he not have kept that to himself? He sure could of. So what he did had purpose. He wanted to fire up fans against Pete/John especially after the Wilson trade earlier in the day. Very unlike Bobby to do something like this, he has seemed to be a pure class guy. I am sure he was probably upset he found out the way he did, but my point is he had a choice on how to respond to it.

When I was younger I always, always sided with players. I guess as I have gotten older my opinions have changed. Definitely a different era of sports, but I tend to side now more with the management of the team when it comes to issues like this. We saw the way Earl and Sherm left, even Bennett. Now Russ ended badly. And then Wagner piles on. I can't even imagine how Pete/John feel when they see these players react this way when they leave town. Imagine you bringing someone in and helping be successful and paying them gobs of money and then that is how they show their respect to you.

Maybe I'm dead wrong on this and I am no way defending Pete/John for how they have managed the roster the last 5 years, but I feel for them a bit. There are so many things they are trying to manage and they have done it once successfully and brought a Lombardi to Seattle. I have to think they probably think to themselves "what else do we have to do?"

Bah, whatever. It fires me up a bit. I loved Wags as a Seahawk, even got to meet him once when him and Irvin came to my hometown with the Lombardi, shook the man's hand he seemed so humble and down to earth and that is what he always portrayed. I was just disappointed that he chose to throw Pete/John under the bus as he leaves town when what happened to him wasn't that uncommon. If he doesn't think that Pete/John had every intention of letting him know first then I don't know what to say.

[NorthHawk]

Players have feelings, too so maybe he was feeling somewhat confused and rejected and just blurted it out on twitter before really thinking things through.
Sure, he could have some animosity, but it doesn't seem to be in character from what I have read about him.

[RiverDog]

I have a good friend that was a teammate with Bobby at Utah State, played 3(?) years with him, and he has nothing but good things to say about him.

I think 86 has a point, but I would also like to remind everyone that we're living in the age of instant communication. It's very possible that Bobby reacted as most of us that found out through the grapevine that we had suddenly lost our job, the embarrassment when a friend or co-worker knows before you do and made a spur of the moment decision to lash out. Had this happened 20-30 years ago when information traveled much slower than it does today, not only might the Hawks been able to reach out to Bobby before word spread, but Bobby might have had time to reflect before speaking his mind.

I'm not making any excuses for either party, just saying that we don't know how all this came down.

[Aseahawkfan]

Maybe he'll get a bit of a boost for being the shortest QB of his era. But he is exactly the same height as Fran Tarkenton, who played with an almost identical style as Russell (there's actually a picture of Russell and Scramb'ln Fran somewhere). So it's not as if he's Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier or Joe Namath's personality defining the AFL.

He'll likely get in as they've liberalized the standard for acceptance into the HOF. I couldn't believe it when they admitted Kenny Stabler, who threw more interceptions than he did TD passes, or Drew Pearson, who had just 3 Pro Bowl appearances. It's no longer an exclusive club for the greatest players in the game. It includes the not-so-great, B+ players as well.

They have not liberalized it. I don't even know what you're talking about. The standard for getting in the Hall of Fame pretty much consisted of either being on a dynastic franchise regardless of stats or putting up great stats even on a crap team or some combination of championships and great stats.

After you made this statement, I went back and looked over players in the Hall. Tons of players in the Hall with worst stats than Russ and not even great stats for their time or MVP performances. Usually they put players in on teams like the Pittsburgh Dynasty in the 70s or the Frisco dynasty in the 80s and or Cowboys in the 90s. Along with other prominent players that some were the best at their position and some were just guys who lasted a long time.

There are a ton of guys in the Hall of Fame that make you go, "Why?" Hell, I like Troy Aikman. But I'm not sure why he's in the Hall of Fame other than his rings and he wasn't even the best part of that team. He pretty much got a pass for being on the Great Cowboys team. There are a lot of players like in that Hall of Fame.

[NorthHawk]

There is an element of a popularity contest.
Terrell Owens not in right away or at least the 2nd year just shows how the stats aren't really the main thing.
How does Bettis get in first ballot? I think it's because he was a favorite of the writers because his stats aren't eye popping - or to me not good enough for the HoF.

[RiverDog]

There is an element of a popularity contest.
Terrell Owens not in right away or at least the 2nd year just shows how the stats aren't really the main thing.
How does Bettis get in first ballot? I think it's because he was a favorite of the writers because his stats aren't eye popping - or to me not good enough for the HoF.

Yeah, Bettis is good example. It's an example of a team bias, as Steelers, Packers, and Cowboys are sportswriter favorites. T.O. is a clear example of a negative bias.

In my mind, one of the criteria for any HOF candidate should be that they were considered the best at their position for at least a year or two, and Russell's always had 3 or 4 QB's that were ahead of him in that regard, whether it be Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, etc. Plus for quarterbacks, one standard for greatness is league and/or Super Bowl MVP's, and Russell doesn't have any. Even Cam Newton and Matt Ryan, two QB's that never come up in the HOF discussions, have MVP's.

[NorthHawk]

But Wilson has had a career of consistency and that can't be a negative.
He's also had a string of Pro Bowls and some All Pro designations.
He has some of the records that were held by current HoF players and others that are near that level.
This change to Denver could consolidate his legacy or if it blows up in his face it could derail his entry into the HoF.
I think it will be the former where he has some of his best years statistics wise.
Add to that as said above, he changed how the NFL views QB's and without his success we probably wouldn't see Murray, Mayfield,
or perhaps even Jackson. Couple that with a clean image and not being hated by most media and he should be a first ballot HoF QB.
The only question will be what team would he want to be represented by. Maybe not Seattle.

[RiverDog]

This change to Denver could consolidate his legacy or if it blows up in his face it could derail his entry into the HoF.

Which is what I've been saying all along: That a lot of Russell's resume is still being written, and he needs a strong back 9 to enter the slam dunk category.

Add to that as said above, he changed how the NFL views QB's and without his success we probably wouldn't see Murray, Mayfield,
or perhaps even Jackson. Couple that with a clean image and not being hated by most media and he should be a first ballot HoF QB.
The only question will be what team would he want to be represented by. Maybe not Seattle.

Lamar Jackson is 6'2", and there's been other running/scrambling quarterbacks, like Steve Young, Roger Staubach, and of course Tarkenton. What sets Russell apart is that he's 5'10". It's unclear how much that's going to add to his resume, but at this point in his career, I don't think it's sufficient to make him a first ballot guy.

[NorthHawk]

Most of the media types that vote for entries know Russ and like or respect him.
That goes a long way in their voting as evidenced by the many questionable selections
that have got in. He’s building a big resume of All Pro and Pro Bowl selections as well
as having winning seasons. The record book shows him near the top QBs in a number
of categories, far above his peers and the majority of QBs who have ever played.

In a nutshell he’s a QB who changed how QBs are defined, holds some records and is
included amongst the very best in others. Add in not being offensive to the voters
and it’s pretty clear he’s on track with a HoF career.

[Stream Hawk]

Of course Wagner is a Ram.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status ... 2Fm-uEWtBg

[Aseahawkfan]

Good for Bobby. Get another shot at a ring while the Seahawks fall into the gutter.

[RiverDog]

Wow, $50M for 5 years. Didn't I hear that Bobby, ala Steve Largent, negotiates his own contracts?

[Hawktawk]

Good for Bobby. Get another shot at a ring while the Seahawks fall into the gutter.

Way to root for failure . Good for Bobby . I hope he’s at mike since our new qb will actually throw between the hash marks .

[Hawktawk]

Wow, $50M for 5 years. Didn't I hear that Bobby, ala Steve Largent, negotiates his own contracts?

JS alluded to the supposed mixup with Bobby being due in part to his status as his own agent . “ we had a lot if discussion but having an agent in the middle as a buffer can help ” . Like Wyman said “ finesse linebacker “ at this stage of his career . I’m curious what role the Rams have for him .
I wish him well . Not his team . A great hawk . Should be Hof and so should Russ for crying out loud . First ballot ? Wags and Russ only have 10 years . Bobby was pure class . In the end Russ wasn’t. The Denver move complicates his story. Had he been loyal and played his career here with 4 or 5 more years , win a few playoff games hes sure fire first rounder . If he goes and wins a super bowl there or a bunch of playoff games it’s a no brainer. But if he falls flat which I’m rooting for it’s going to be interesting . Maybe a little TO situation with the voters .

[NorthHawk]

Wow, $50M for 5 years. Didn't I hear that Bobby, ala Steve Largent, negotiates his own contracts?

We'll find out soon enough what the real money is. It might end up being $25M over 3 years in real terms or something like that.

[NorthHawk]

According to PFT, 4 sources say the first year $ for Wagner is $6.5M.

Unofficially, no fewer than four sources have told us that the deal actually pays out $6.5 million in the first year.

If so, that’s obviously far less than the $10 million annual average that the total deal suggests.

One source said that the deal pays out $17 million over two years, with “small guarantees” in the second season.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... n-elusive/

[Aseahawkfan]

Way to root for failure . Good for Bobby . I hope he’s at mike since our new qb will actually throw between the hash marks .

Telling the truth isn't rooting for anything. We have to wait until next year is done, but the gutter is my prediction of where we will be next year. Be one of the worst seasons for Seahawks in a decade is what I'm expecting. We're in a tough division. If we were in the AFC, I'd expect a worse outcome. But the NFC overall is pretty weak right now, so we might eek out some wins against teams in a similar situation to us with no competitive units and no QB.

Gonna be a real down year next year. Only thing that might change this is hitting on some great draft picks, but we're not even one good draft away from Super Bowl competitiveness. We're probably at least three away. Need to rebuild nearly every unit on the team and need to find a competitive QB or build a defense so elite it's a top five NFL unit to have any hope of competing.

[RiverDog]

Way to root for failure . Good for Bobby . I hope he’s at mike since our new qb will actually throw between the hash marks .

Telling the truth isn't rooting for anything. We have to wait until next year is done, but the gutter is my prediction of where we will be next year. Be one of the worst seasons for Seahawks in a decade is what I'm expecting. We're in a tough division. If we were in the AFC, I'd expect a worse outcome. But the NFC overall is pretty weak right now, so we might eek out some wins against teams in a similar situation to us with no competitive units and no QB.

Gonna be a real down year next year. Only thing that might change this is hitting on some great draft picks, but we're not even one good draft away from Super Bowl competitiveness. We're probably at least three away. Need to rebuild nearly every unit on the team and need to find a competitive QB or build a defense so elite it's a top five NFL unit to have any hope of competing.

Yeah, rooting and predicting are two completely different behaviors. My expectations fall somewhere between Hawktalk's and ASF's. Our schedule is weak enough that we can't help but win half our games. IMO we'll be the same old Seahawks that we've been for the past 7 years: Mediocre.

[NorthHawk]

If the QB position isn't really settled or is performed poorly, we could easily lose a lot more games than we win.
The margins of victory the last 10 years haven't always reflected the team's records for those years and in many
cases the QB was the difference. Just look at all of the comeback wins Russ had here. That's mostly QB play and
a substandard QB or maybe even average probably wouldn't have had the same amount of success.
Pete's formula has been to keep it close and win in a flurry at the end. If he still wants to play that way it will
take a special QB to do so.

[RiverDog]

If the QB position isn't really settled or is performed poorly, we could easily lose a lot more games than we win.
The margins of victory the last 10 years haven't always reflected the team's records for those years and in many
cases the QB was the difference. Just look at all of the comeback wins Russ had here. That's mostly QB play and
a substandard QB or maybe even average probably wouldn't have had the same amount of success.
Pete's formula has been to keep it close and win in a flurry at the end. If he still wants to play that way it will
take a special QB to do so.

Russell performed well below standard in his first game back, 20-40 with 2 INT's and 0 TD's, on the road vs. the Packers, a very good team that ended up with HFA, and we were down just 3-0 going into the 4th quarter. That's why I'm not as pessimistic as others as it might not take a Herculean effort from who ever our QB ends up being in order to achieve a .500 record and a playoff berth.

But reaching that next level, from our current .500ish mediocre stuck-in-the-rut to a SB contender, you're right, it's going to take a special QB to get us there.

[Hawktawk]

Meh . Brad Johnson won a super bowl, Jeff hostetler . Trent Dilfer . Garrappolo went , Goff . Garraplo damn near twice in 3 years .

We need a team . We need a QB who moves chains and is 100% bought in . Every time I think about the highest paid football player in the history of the franchise wearing the colors of the Hawks “ checking out “ I get more angry. I’m sure plenty of coaches and teammates felt the same .

Let’s just see . As RD points out our defense held GB to 3 for 3 quarters as Russ scissor hand fed it to the tuba player . Lots of games like that . 4 3 and outs in a row in 3 games all started by Russ . 1 game was followed by a 4 and out after the 3 and outs . We don’t run the ball every play . At some point someone making 35 million needs to make a play when it matters .

Let’s see . I’ll probably be crying the blues but let’s wait until the season . Sick of hearing Pete and John trashed . Let’s see if they have one more big one in them.

[RiverDog]

Meh . Brad Johnson won a super bowl, Jeff hostetler . Trent Dilfer . Garrappolo went , Goff . Garraplo damn near twice in 3 years .

We need a team . We need a QB who moves chains and is 100% bought in . Every time I think about the highest paid football player in the history of the franchise wearing the colors of the Hawks “ checking out “ I get more angry. I’m sure plenty of coaches and teammates felt the same .

Let’s just see . As RD points out our defense held GB to 3 for 3 quarters as Russ scissor hand fed it to the tuba player . Lots of games like that . 4 3 and outs in a row in 3 games all started by Russ . 1 game was followed by a 4 and out after the 3 and outs . We don’t run the ball every play . At some point someone making 35 million needs to make a play when it matters .

Let’s see . I’ll probably be crying the blues but let’s wait until the season . Sick of hearing Pete and John trashed . Let’s see if they have one more big one in them.

You can add Nick Foles to your list. It's certainly not required that we have a franchise QB to get to the Super Bowl, but it sure increases the odds. The one thing that your QB list has in common are that they all had top three to top five defenses, something that we don't currently have.

There's 'lots of games' like the GB game, but there's also lots of games like the Bears game. We were mediocre with Russell, I have very little hope that we'll be more than that without him.

Pete and John deserve all the trashing they've received and then some. You might as well get used to it.

[NorthHawk]

I think you’re conflating QB performance with Offensive design.
It’s Pete’s plan to play it close then win at the end. That handcuffs the Offense
to a degree. Greg Olsen said in a meeting during the year that new ideas to attack
the defense were dismissed as being not within the philosophy. so we went out there
and did the same old things until the end of the game then dropped it into Wilson’s lap
and said go win it now. Over the years we’ve seen that play out and we’ve won a
lot but it takes a special QB to get the job done and we just traded a one away.

So with a lesser able QB it’s going to mean many more losses unless in the unlikely case
of Pete takes a hands off approach to the Offense which would be sad in that we will have
wasted the talents of a great QB for the better part of 10 years and achieved relatively little.

[Aseahawkfan]

Meh . Brad Johnson won a super bowl, Jeff hostetler . Trent Dilfer . Garrappolo went , Goff . Garraplo damn near twice in 3 years .

We need a team . We need a QB who moves chains and is 100% bought in . Every time I think about the highest paid football player in the history of the franchise wearing the colors of the Hawks “ checking out “ I get more angry. I’m sure plenty of coaches and teammates felt the same .

Let’s just see . As RD points out our defense held GB to 3 for 3 quarters as Russ scissor hand fed it to the tuba player . Lots of games like that . 4 3 and outs in a row in 3 games all started by Russ . 1 game was followed by a 4 and out after the 3 and outs . We don’t run the ball every play . At some point someone making 35 million needs to make a play when it matters .

Let’s see . I’ll probably be crying the blues but let’s wait until the season . Sick of hearing Pete and John trashed . Let’s see if they have one more big one in them.

I'm sick of hearing Russell trashed while you pretend Pete and John did a good job maintaining this team. They didn't. Period. End of story. Their crap trades and drafting after the Super Bowl defense fell apart ruined what could have been a dynasty.

[Hawktawk]

I think you’re conflating QB performance with Offensive design.
It’s Pete’s plan to play it close then win at the end. That handcuffs the Offense
to a degree. Greg Olsen said in a meeting during the year that new ideas to attack
the defense were dismissed as being not within the philosophy. so we went out there
and did the same old things until the end of the game then dropped it into Wilson’s lap
and said go win it now. Over the years we’ve seen that play out and we’ve won a
lot but it takes a special QB to get the job done and we just traded a one away.

So with a lesser able QB it’s going to mean many more losses unless in the unlikely case
of Pete takes a hands off approach to the Offense which would be sad in that we will have
wasted the talents of a great QB for the better part of 10 years and achieved relatively little.

42 % completion % on third down with an average gain of 2.1 yards for most of 2021 is not the coaching . In the last year I personally saw Russ miss wide open guys almost every game which never used to happen . I saw idiotic coverage sacks 5 plus seconds after the snap . The stats don’t lie. Oh no we’re gonna suck without Russ!!!!
We suck with Russ . We won 3 WC games last 8 years . He didn’t play particularly well in any of our 5 losses in the postseason and we never led in 3 of them . The team including Russ won a lot of games in the decade but the team including Russ was a popcorn fart ( including Russ) in the divisional every time . In the end he wanted out and got out and let’s see if his input into Denver’s offense can make him the 5000 yard 50 TD man that us the inky thing that will mane him happy . Pete hall got him a Lombardi . He says he wants more . Let’s see. Seattle will be playing Pete Ball . Denver will be letting Russ cook .
Let’s revisit this discussion in a few months .
Last time I saw a career journeymen mediocre ass clown backup
Run the Waldron offense it looked pretty damn smooth. So tired of hearing coaches and the o line blamed for everything . Good luck with that Denver .

[RiverDog]

I think you’re conflating QB performance with Offensive design.
It’s Pete’s plan to play it close then win at the end. That handcuffs the Offense
to a degree. Greg Olsen said in a meeting during the year that new ideas to attack
the defense were dismissed as being not within the philosophy. so we went out there
and did the same old things until the end of the game then dropped it into Wilson’s lap
and said go win it now. Over the years we’ve seen that play out and we’ve won a
lot but it takes a special QB to get the job done and we just traded a one away.

So with a lesser able QB it’s going to mean many more losses unless in the unlikely case
of Pete takes a hands off approach to the Offense which would be sad in that we will have
wasted the talents of a great QB for the better part of 10 years and achieved relatively little.

42 % completion % on third down with an average gain of 2.1 yards for most of 2021 is not the coaching . In the last year I personally saw Russ miss wide open guys almost every game which never used to happen . I saw idiotic coverage sacks 5 plus seconds after the snap . The stats don’t lie. Oh no we’re gonna suck without Russ!!!!
We suck with Russ . We won 3 WC games last 8 years . He didn’t play particularly well in any of our 5 losses in the postseason and we never led in 3 of them . The team including Russ won a lot of games in the decade but the team including Russ was a popcorn fart ( including Russ) in the divisional every time . In the end he wanted out and got out and let’s see if his input into Denver’s offense can make him the 5000 yard 50 TD man that us the inky thing that will mane him happy . Pete hall got him a Lombardi . He says he wants more . Let’s see. Seattle will be playing Pete Ball . Denver will be letting Russ cook .
Let’s revisit this discussion in a few months .
Last time I saw a career journeymen mediocre ass clown backup
Run the Waldron offense it looked pretty damn smooth. So tired of hearing coaches and the o line blamed for everything . Good luck with that Denver .

I'm with Hawktalk on this one. Even prior to his injury, Russell wasn't playing well, and I remember looking at that 3rd down stat, that it was a league worst for starters, less than 35%. I even started a thread on it.

But the rest of your comments about Russ, except as it relates to Denver doing as poorly as possible to make that 2023 first rounder a higher pick, I couldn't give a rusty you-know-what how Russell does. I suspect that he'll do well.

[Hawktawk]

I hope Russ does bad because our draft depends on it . I think he may well do bad due to the division , the overall schedule and the fact his game is not what it was . Russ was the greatest dual threat QB in the history of the game between his wheels , his instincts, his powerful accurate arm and league best deep ball . Mostly he was clutch . I never felt we were out of a game . Over the years he’s not quite as quick , he is as a scout put it “ risk averse with a great deep ball. “ another said “
The film doesn’t match the stats “. I’m trying to remember his last 2 minute drive to tie or win . Sometime mid season in 20 I think . Last year he had the ball in his hands with that chance 3 times . Tennessee was a sloppy 3 and out punctuated by a sack at the goal line losing 12 yards after a defense that was on the field most of the game got a critical OT stop. Then he popped off when Carrol said it would have been nice to at least change field position .

Redskins and Colt McCoy after playing like crap all day he did throw a TD pass in the final seconds but then froze under pressure on the 2 point try and threw late into the middle for a pick .

Then the bears and I see you put that on our defense somewhat. Having watched the game twice I observed it was a game Wags showed his age getting run over and around by a journeyman back , being unable to corral a receiver who fell down on 3rd and 13 . Now I’ll get haterade comments on Bobby but he’s slowing down and he made a ton of well deserved money here .
Second was seeing what a weapon Penney can be . He had 135 yards and seemed to change field position as much as the passing game . If the guys healthy we will have a decent offense with any competent QB.
Last is Russ . Looking at his stat line pretty nice over 200 yards , 2 TDs , no picks. 110 qbr. But every missed pass was seemingly on 3rd down , some bad misses . There were several sacks holding the ball too long . In the end he was dreadful , taking a huge sack with a chip shot FG almost a certain victory . Instead he lost 14 yards trying to pad his stats . Duane Brown was furious . Then after Foles heroics while being smashed over and over Russ has a chance to win and goes 4 and out to end the game . He overthrew Lockett by 3 feet on a little out route on 4th down and the look on Locketts face ….then he popped off on PC for suggesting he should have thrown the ball away . For better or worse the coach is the boss and if a player is uncoachable it was just time . Pete was correct in his comments .

It’s not haterade . It’s watching tape and describing what I see as a play by play announcer would .

If Russ does well I’ll give him his due . Just saying he’s not been the same player for a season and a half . Not the same attitude . Let’s just see .

[NorthHawk]

I suspect you will be giving Russ his due.
He’s now going to be able to run plays he’s more comfortable with and able to
use his Receivers to their best abilities. As well he will have a run game that got
about 1800 yards last year so it probably will be even better with a mobile QB who
is very accurate and throws a terrific deep ball.

It’s going to be fun to watch.

[RiverDog]

I suspect you will be giving Russ his due.
He’s now going to be able to run plays he’s more comfortable with and able to
use his Receivers to their best abilities. As well he will have a run game that got
about 1800 yards last year so it probably will be even better with a mobile QB who
is very accurate and throws a terrific deep ball.

It’s going to be fun to watch.

If Russell and Denver do well, if he gets them deep into the playoffs, especially being that he's in the AFC West, it's going to be a huge banana cream pie smashed into Pete Carroll's face (and Hawktalk's, too ). Although I wouldn't characterize it as 'fun' to watch, it's going to be very interesting to say the least.

[Hawktawk]

I suspect you will be giving Russ his due.
He’s now going to be able to run plays he’s more comfortable with and able to
use his Receivers to their best abilities. As well he will have a run game that got
about 1800 yards last year so it probably will be even better with a mobile QB who
is very accurate and throws a terrific deep ball.

It’s going to be fun to watch.

If Russell and Denver do well, if he gets them deep into the playoffs, especially being that he's in the AFC West, it's going to be a huge banana cream pie smashed into Pete Carroll's face (and Hawktalk's, too ). Although I wouldn't characterize it as 'fun' to watch, it's going to be very interesting to say the least.

Russ is going to have more pressure on him than ever in his career . He has not handled it well lately . 2 each vs Mahomes , Herbert , Carr who knows Russ lobbied for his job . I’m watching those games. And hey NH he threw lots of deep balls this year and went 6-8 losing to 4 backups . We’re playing Pete ball . They are gonna let Russ cook so good luck with your 1800 yard run game . Penney’s getting that . Surprising how many hawks fans are rooting for a guy who dumped the team and the 12s to win and for Pete and Hawktawk with 2 Ws river to be wrong, eat a cream pie . Strange times in Seattle .

[RiverDog]

Russ is going to have more pressure on him than ever in his career . He has not handled it well lately . 2 each vs Mahomes , Herbert , Carr who knows Russ lobbied for his job . I’m watching those games. And hey NH he threw lots of deep balls this year and went 6-8 losing to 4 backups . We’re playing Pete ball . They are gonna let Russ cook so good luck with your 1800 yard run game . Penney’s getting that . Surprising how many hawks fans are rooting for a guy who dumped the team and the 12s to win and for Pete and Hawktawk with 2 Ws river to be wrong, eat a cream pie . Strange times in Seattle .

More pressure than starting your first ever NFL game? More pressure than playing in the Super Bowl? Don't think so. He's doing what you, me, and millions of others have done in the recent past, changing employers. No doubt that there's some stress involved, but I'd be very surprised if it were such that Russell will be quivering in his cleats when he takes the field.

The reason so many Hawk fans are rooting for Russell is because many if not most do not share your POV on how he left the team. A lot of fans get emotionally attached to players and root for them like one roots for their child. It's not me, but it doesn't surprise me, either. Except as it relates to our getting the highest possible draft slotting in 2023, I could care less one way or another how Russell does, but I understand why a lot of people aren't running out into the streets and burning their #3 jerseys.

[Hawktawk]

Russ is going to have more pressure on him than ever in his career . He has not handled it well lately . 2 each vs Mahomes , Herbert , Carr who knows Russ lobbied for his job . I’m watching those games. And hey NH he threw lots of deep balls this year and went 6-8 losing to 4 backups . We’re playing Pete ball . They are gonna let Russ cook so good luck with your 1800 yard run game . Penney’s getting that . Surprising how many hawks fans are rooting for a guy who dumped the team and the 12s to win and for Pete and Hawktawk with 2 Ws river to be wrong, eat a cream pie . Strange times in Seattle .

More pressure than starting your first ever NFL game? More pressure than playing in the Super Bowl? Don't think so. He's doing what you, me, and millions of others have done in the recent past, changing employers. No doubt that there's some stress involved, but I'd be very surprised if it were such that Russell will be quivering in his cleats when he takes the field.

The reason so many Hawk fans are rooting for Russell is because many if not most do not share your POV on how he left the team. A lot of fans get emotionally attached to players and root for them like one roots for their child. It's not me, but it doesn't surprise me, either. Except as it relates to our getting the highest possible draft slotting in 2023, I could care less one way or another how Russell does, but I understand why a lot of people aren't running out into the streets and burning their #3 jerseys.

I don’t believe Russ ever felt pressure early in his career including 48. I think the pick in 49 changed him . Getting hit too much as he admitted and as stats bear out changed him . Then he bailed out by choice 2 years into what had been the richest deal in history saying it was the players and coaches fault. Denver gave up first rounders , 2 very good players and a raw athletic QB the opinion of which is split in Denver with many fans feeling they gave up on him too soon . So this pressure on Russ will be week in and week out . Like you say if he blows it up which could certainly happen PC and JS are gone. But if he struggles Denver fans won’t be nearly as patient with 33% conversions on third down and overlooking check downs for rocket balls if it doesn’t work. Like Huard said after the bears . Holmgren told him “ if you’re going off script it better work”

[RiverDog]

Russ is going to have more pressure on him than ever in his career . He has not handled it well lately . 2 each vs Mahomes , Herbert , Carr who knows Russ lobbied for his job . I’m watching those games. And hey NH he threw lots of deep balls this year and went 6-8 losing to 4 backups . We’re playing Pete ball . They are gonna let Russ cook so good luck with your 1800 yard run game . Penney’s getting that . Surprising how many hawks fans are rooting for a guy who dumped the team and the 12s to win and for Pete and Hawktawk with 2 Ws river to be wrong, eat a cream pie . Strange times in Seattle .

More pressure than starting your first ever NFL game? More pressure than playing in the Super Bowl? Don't think so. He's doing what you, me, and millions of others have done in the recent past, changing employers. No doubt that there's some stress involved, but I'd be very surprised if it were such that Russell will be quivering in his cleats when he takes the field.

The reason so many Hawk fans are rooting for Russell is because many if not most do not share your POV on how he left the team. A lot of fans get emotionally attached to players and root for them like one roots for their child. It's not me, but it doesn't surprise me, either. Except as it relates to our getting the highest possible draft slotting in 2023, I could care less one way or another how Russell does, but I understand why a lot of people aren't running out into the streets and burning their #3 jerseys.

I don’t believe Russ ever felt pressure early in his career including 48. I think the pick in 49 changed him . Getting hit too much as he admitted and as stats bear out changed him . Then he bailed out by choice 2 years into what had been the richest deal in history saying it was the players and coaches fault. Denver gave up first rounders , 2 very good players and a raw athletic QB the opinion of which is split in Denver with many fans feeling they gave up on him too soon . So this pressure on Russ will be week in and week out . Like you say if he blows it up which could certainly happen PC and JS are gone. But if he struggles Denver fans won’t be nearly as patient with 33% conversions on third down and overlooking check downs for rocket balls if it doesn’t work. Like Huard said after the bears . Holmgren told him “ if you’re going off script it better work”

Neither one of us can determine how much, if any, pressure Russell is feeling. Besides, who cares? He's not a Seahawk anymore.

Russell is now past history as far as the Hawks are concerned. Time for us to move on and find another toy mouse to play with.

[NorthHawk]

Why would you think he would go off script?
He did what the Offense was designed to do here and now he has a chance to do things he wasn't allowed to do as well as contribute to how the Offense
will look week to week. He's now in an Offense that will use their weapons to the best of their ability not within the confines of Carroll's program.
That's not pressure, that's fun and I think Russ will thrive on that.

[tarlhawk]

Cody Barton has some immense shoes to fill while replacing B.Wagners position as one of two off the ball linebackers. The increasing 3-4 def fronts should allow Barton and Jordyn Brooks numerous tackles in bunches while Cody's college background suits him well as the roaming MLB for 4-3 fronts. This isn't about replacing B.Wagner in his early tenure as the HOF LB he became and thrived as...Cody is offering youth and his own skill set as next man up to keep Wagners loss from being a devastating blow to our defensive schemes. The new "killer bees" Brooks/Barton will not be confused as the killer W's Wagner/Wright but their upside continues as their experience allows. Another "B" Burr-Kirven waits as depth.

[NorthHawk]

Barton replacing Wagner is a step down any way you look at it. Brooks might be the better MLB, but in 3-4 fronts he could play either inside or outside with his range.
I'm not sure he blitzed much last year, but I would expect Brooks can be quite effective if called on. I think Barton is a big ? at this point. He played some good games
but has had some horrific outings as well. Maybe they scaled back his responsibilities and it's settled him down, but this will be a defining year for him without Wagner.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russ is going to have more pressure on him than ever in his career . He has not handled it well lately . 2 each vs Mahomes , Herbert , Carr who knows Russ lobbied for his job . I’m watching those games. And hey NH he threw lots of deep balls this year and went 6-8 losing to 4 backups . We’re playing Pete ball . They are gonna let Russ cook so good luck with your 1800 yard run game . Penney’s getting that . Surprising how many hawks fans are rooting for a guy who dumped the team and the 12s to win and for Pete and Hawktawk with 2 Ws river to be wrong, eat a cream pie . Strange times in Seattle .

What bunk. Russ had to drive a car home after his dad passed out from a diabetic coma while driving. Russ goes to a children's hospital to visit kids who are dying.

Russ threw four picks in the NFC conference championship game and kept going out there and pushing and we won the game. He's been to two Super Bowls, multiple playoff appearances, been divorced once, and remarried and had a kid.

You keep trying to find this angle so you can see Russ fail, but there isn't one. Russ has handled everything life can throw at you from having children, parents dying, sick parents, divorce, highest level of professional accomplishment, being an under-sized QB who was told he wouldn't make it in the NFL, and just about everything else. So you making up this garbage in your head he somehow has more pressure than ever is just you making stuff up in your head.

It's like you never paid attention to who Russ is and what he has dealt with in his life. There is nothing anyone can do that will put more pressure on Russ than he's been under at various times in his life. Russ has already been tested and hasn't cracked by now, he isn't going to crack.

You really don't bother to remember who Russ is.

[tarlhawk]

Barton replacing Wagner is a step down any way you look at it. Brooks might be the better MLB, but in 3-4 fronts he could play either inside or outside with his range.
I'm not sure he blitzed much last year, but I would expect Brooks can be quite effective if called on. I think Barton is a big ? at this point. He played some good games
but has had some horrific outings as well. Maybe they scaled back his responsibilities and it's settled him down, but this will be a defining year for him without Wagner.

Cody Barton is an unknown due to small sample size of actual starts and its unreasonable to even compare him to Bobby. Jordyn Brooks can play inside /outside in 3-4 fronts if we can draft another inside LB stud to pair with C. Barton...Brooks flashes that "heat seeking" ability on rare occasions but pretty sure he can "dial it up".

[Agent 86]

My brother sent me this article on Bobby written by the Rams Athletic reporter Jourdan Rodrigue, it's a fantastic article to read and really speaks to the man Wagner is today and how he came to be that man. LA is lucky to have him, he is definitely missed in Seattle. Was really nice to see the fans chanting his name as he left the field on Sunday and him acknowledging it. One day he better be in the ROH. Love me some Bobby!

Bobby Wagner is back in Los Angeles, but he never really left it behind
Jourdan Rodrigue
Sep 29, 2022

The place where Phenia Mae Wagner stays was once quieter, the noise of the city and the famed basketball arena across the road dulled by trees that wave softly in the breeze over the tops of the brick walls and by a carpet of grass clipped back before it reaches the paved driveway and iron gates.

Across from that driveway now is the Los Angeles Rams’ football stadium, completed in 2020. On a Sunday or Monday or Thursday night, it swells with the roars of crowds and the pulse of speakers. The noise, and the stadium’s glow, leak into the quiet and the darkness across the street. The place where Phenia stays catches whispers about her son, Rams captain Bobby, who plays middle linebacker in that stadium, who is talked about in awed tones by the biggest and baddest in the NFL like he’s a comic book superhero.

Bobby Wagner passes her every time he goes to work, on a Sunday or Monday or Thursday night, because he’s back in Los Angeles. It’s where he grew up, the place he kept quietly returning to each offseason even as he built a decade-long Hall of Fame NFL career in Seattle.

It’s the place where he laid Phenia to rest when he was just a teenager.

Wagner passes the brick walls and iron gates of the Inglewood Park Cemetery every time the Rams have a home game, and that is where Phenia lives.

Not “lived”.

This is Wagner’s own phrasing, used as he settles into a plastic chair after a sticky summer practice in late-August. He does not blink as he repeats:

“Lives.”

Wagner, 32, was born in Los Angeles, and his family lived in Inglewood, Calif., for a while before moving farther east into Ontario and the Inland Empire where he spent his teenage years.

Both his father, Bobby Sr., and Phenia worked a lot — he was a California highway patrolman, and she was in finance — but Wagner also remembers that his mom especially liked to make sure that everyone else got what they needed, that he and his siblings got where they needed to be.

“I remember love,” he said of his childhood, “us looking out for each other, making sure everybody was good. A happy space.”

But there were memories, too, of Phenia getting sick. Into his late teens, she had strokes and suffered from their effects. Wagner would go to school and worry, and when he wasn’t at school or football practice he’d be by her side. “A lot of that takes over your memory,” he said. Still, she made it to each one of his games at Colony High School.

Wagner — a football convert despite his lifelong passion for basketball — started out as a tight end but soon realized he had little control of the game in that role. He was already seeing patterns and concepts develop much faster than waiting for a pass to maybe come his way every few snaps. He switched full-time to inside linebacker, and when he did, the game and the world opened up for him — even if just a little bit at first. Wagner had one scholarship offer, from Utah State. It was his high school coach, Anthony Rice, and Phenia who convinced him to take it, even as he fretted about being too far from the family.

It’s stunning now, to consider a player of Wagner’s caliber didn’t have college scouts flocking to the area. Generally, little attention was paid to Ontario — in more ways than one. Wagner remembers the exact conversation he had with former teammate Omar Bolden, an eventual NFL colleague, when the two played together at Colony.

“I remember thinking: (The) Lakers always hosted something in L.A. county. Clippers always hosted something in L.A. county, or Inglewood, or Compton,” said Wagner. “I’m like, ‘Man, nobody comes over here. We want to learn, too.’”

He and Bolden made a promise to each other on that day.

“No matter how far we get, we’ve got to come back and be a part of this community,” Wagner said. And he did — quietly, for years, in the form of donations of cleats, equipment and even meals for the kids at the high school. He started holding free football camps at Colony — all kids welcome, regardless of gender, free of charge. He held his most recent of these in late July, on the same football field where he played some of his earliest snaps. The Rams came with him. Just two days before the camp, Wagner partnered with venture capital firm Next Play Capital to bring a group of students from Colony and from Utah State to the Bay Area, to tour Silicon Valley businesses like Google and Skydio and learn about entrepreneurship.

Most outside of the area didn’t realize Wagner had been giving back to Ontario and the Inland Empire, even when he was in Seattle (where his ongoing charitable efforts and camps have become the stuff of local legend, alongside those of many of his former teammates). He didn’t want the kids in his hometown to feel as though they had been forgotten, just because he made it somewhere else.

“When I was a kid in Ontario, I was like, ‘Where is that person?’ he said. “I try to answer that question that I had, as a kid … to create a new question for (another) kid.

“Every amazing thing that we have in life started with a question.”

On a football field, a middle linebacker is a connective force and a direct foil to the strategic maneuvering of the quarterback. Wagner has turned playing this position into an art form.

He wears the “green dot”, which means he’s the lone defensive player who has a helmet speaker, attached to defensive coordinator Raheem Morris’ headset. He is in charge of relaying the calls from Morris to the rest of the defense, and also making checks and adjustments of his own.

Wagner wants his teammates to be OK, to have the answers to the test, to feel comfortable and free even within the painful, structured aggression of a defense. The strategy of football comes as naturally to him as breathing, as if he’s watching the game unfold from a great height above the field in slow motion. Wagner’s gift is that he can also explain it in a way that makes teammates feel that, too.

“I don’t want to call him unstoppable, but he has an answer for everything. It’s kind of hard to put it in words, but that’s just it,” said second-year inside linebacker Ernest Jones, who starts alongside Wagner. “He is our cheat code. In the game, literally he’ll call stuff out — and if he says it, I’m doing it.”

In his first few months as a Ram, Wagner said his biggest goal wasn’t really to learn the defense. Privately, coaches marveled at the ease with which he picked up the language of their system in a matter of days and hours, not weeks and months, despite playing in a completely different scheme for the last decade. Wagner’s real goal was to “learn” his teammates. He sat with different players in stretching lines before OTAs practices, even with the receivers and offensive linemen. Wagner, a veteran, didn’t miss a day of the voluntary workouts. In August, his new teammates voted him a captain.

“In order to lead, in order to be a great leader, you gotta learn the people you’re around, figure out what makes them tick — he’s absolutely done that,” said Morris.

In a Week 1 loss to Buffalo, the Rams couldn’t put much good tape together. But two plays in particular stood out as a representation of what Wagner brings to the team. The Bills ran a “toss” run concept, which the Rams first saw in a bad loss to division rival San Francisco last year. The play intends to change the contact point for the running back from the defensive linemen (a historically strong area of the Rams’ roster) to the inside linebackers, where the Rams have often featured young and inexperienced middle-round players.

On the first toss run, Wagner assisted in the stop before too much damage could be done. When the Bills ran it again to the left side in the third quarter, Wagner flowed around middle-of-the-field traffic and blew up the play. Earlier that week, Wagner had a hunch that the 49ers set up a blueprint of certain run concepts that had been successful against the Rams’ inside linebackers in the past, including that toss. The Bills didn’t have that play on previous tape, but Wagner thought they might try it against the Rams. So Wagner went back through the 49ers film to prepare for the chance he’d see it from Buffalo.

“I’m like, ‘you’re watching 49ers tape during Bills week?’” said Jones, marveling in hindsight as he realized why Wagner did it. “He’s got play scripts on his phone that he’s scrolling through, like that’s his ‘social media.’”

Wagner mentioned to Jones one afternoon that he studies the way offensive linemen are built, because within their skeletal framework are leverage points a smaller player can use to beat a block. He wastes no movements; every step has a purpose. Coaches and teammates past and present often laugh in frustration because Wagner looks like he should be “slow”, like he’s not going to be where he’s supposed to be and then, there he is — hitting at the exact angle that inflicts the most damage on the play, hitting with scientifically bad intentions.

“He does everything so elegant,” said Jones, “that’s how I describe it, elegance.”

Phenia is here, too. Wagner remembers her in waves of feelings, in her gracefulness even when she was sick, in how she made sure everyone was OK and together, in solving problems for others. “She was the glue,” he said.

It’s how teammates see Wagner.

She always figured out stuff, just the way she moved,” he said. “How she was able to handle everything, balance everything. I’m pretty sure she had things that stressed her out, but you would never know. The way she took care of people, the way they talked about her. She made her presence felt.”

Often, he gets told by people who knew her that he has her eyes.

“I am her,” he said, “do you know what I mean? That’s how you keep her; I am, in a way, her.”

In the spring, shortly after the Rams signed Wagner to a five-year, $50 million contract, COO Kevin Demoff was texting with Wagner about some of the team’s upcoming business and marketing projects.

Demoff had heard through a mutual colleague, Seattle Kraken president and CEO Tod Leiweke, that Wagner was interested in the business side of sports franchises. Wagner has previously spoken about running a team of his own someday.

Demoff asked Wagner if he wanted to join him in a few of those project meetings, and received an enthusiastic “yes” in response. Wagner was still so new to the team that a few executives in one of the meetings didn’t recognize him at first. Eventually, it sunk in.

“‘Holy sh–,’” one executive said. “‘Bobby Wagner is in our meeting.’”

Wagner is an entrepreneur, an avid reader, a practitioner of yoga and meditation, a proponent for social justice. He is an active angel investor whose wide-ranging business portfolio includes tech funds and equity holdings in platforms such as Public.com. He once met with Kobe Bryant, his childhood hero, to discuss Bryant’s substantial business endeavors and navigation of that space as an athlete.

“I was really impressed that somebody that spent so many years in one profession was able to transition and be equally feared in the business world because of how smart and how in-tune he was,” said Wagner. “He’s definitely somebody that I was like, ‘Man, I aspire to be like that.’”

In 2020, at age 29, Wagner was named to Forbes’ 30 under 30 list. A passionate advocate for financial literacy, Wagner does not have an agent. He negotiates his contracts himself. He thinks he got his love for numbers from Phenia, who worked in finance.

She influenced him in other ways, too.

Phenia continued to suffer from strokes until her passing in May of 2009. Wagner used to question himself as he mourned: What if he could’ve fast-tracked his football career? What if he was making the type of money he makes now, back then? Could he have done something more for her, found a new cure, found a new method of care? Sometimes, he still thinks about this.

“When you focus on things you can’t control,” he said, “you drive yourself crazy.”

This May, Wagner announced the establishment of an ongoing series of funding that will benefit stroke patients and their families at Los Angeles-area hospitals (two of which cared for his mother), in Phenia’s name. Wagner wants to make sure that no other children or spouses who suffer a loss torture themselves with the question: Would it have changed anything, if only they had more resources?

“I felt like doing this made sense. I was coming home (to Los Angeles),” he said. “I do a lot of stuff in the community, (but I thought), ‘What better way to re-establish yourself in the community than kind of reminding them you never really left?’

“There’s energy here that is forever.”

Wagner wasn’t with Phenia when she died, during his freshman year at Utah State. It ate at him.

After the funeral, he took some weeks away from football. When he returned, questions about her peppered him from all angles — especially as he excelled and became an early-round NFL Draft prospect in 2012. As teams began to look into Wagner’s background, and then as he emerged into the spotlight as a captain of Seattle’s historic defense, success came with painful memories.

“Every step of the way, I got asked about it,” he said. “When you get to the league (they ask), ‘How many parents do you have?’ I say, ‘One.’ ‘Well, where is the other one?’ And I have to explain that. If you have a good game, they ask you again.”

Back then, grief was a fog. Wagner couldn’t see through it, couldn’t solve it. He says there is not a day when a person wakes up after a loss like that and is just ‘fine’. But he decided not to run from his grief, or live in it.

“You either stay stagnant, or you grow from it,” he said. “I chose to grow.”

As the years passed and Wagner created a life and community he cherished in Seattle, he didn’t hide from his more painful memories inside of it. Piece by piece, act by act, Wagner built a bridge through his grief right back to Los Angeles.

Wagner first played at SoFi Stadium in 2020, while still with Seattle. As the team’s buses drove into its belly, he had a strange feeling, as though he’d been there before. He looked up the address for the cemetery, and saw on the map that Phenia’s grave site was just a few hundred yards away.

When he was released from Seattle this spring, and returning to Los Angeles full-time became an option, Wagner knew he was ready for everything he would feel.

That was the other quiet work Wagner did — not just in the community, but on himself. Facing the wound, because he knew the good memories were still there underneath it.

If it also means he still carries some of the hurt with him, fragments of it emerging in his eyes between the crisscrossing laugh lines in the corners, so be it. He is back where Phenia lives.

“Her body rests, but her spirit — I feel like spirits live on, and do a lot of amazing things,” he said. “(The cemetery) is just where her body stays. Body and spirit are two different things, to me.”

She lives right across the street from where he plays football, in the worlds Wagner has built for others, and in himself.

Not lived.

Lives.