Mayfield

[RiverDog]

If Geno was starting material he wouldn’t be waiting to be signed. There are too many teams
looking for a starting caliber QB or improvement to let him sit, so it would seem HT is out of
step with the coaches and gms of the NFL.

I don't buy Geno. Hawktawk's stats are nothing more than a small sample size bias. Geno over a season never put up numbers like Russ. It's ridiculous to compare the two.

Yeah, no kidding. For his career, Geno has thrown more interceptions than TD's and his completion percentage is below 59%. Russell has completed 65% of his passes and has 292/87 TD/INT ratio.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah well Pete said he wanted him back and that he had “ complete command of the offense “ so let’s see. My infatuation is for Seahawks who make plays . You are all wrong about Genos performance this year unless you are smarter than Pete . His words not mine I just said it months ago . I watched film . You all hang with your biases and pre conceived notions . You are wrong . Crow is here unless you think you’re smarter than Pete Carroll .and nice cherry pick from 8 years ago river . The stats that matter are 68.5 completion % 5 TD s and 1 rush TD , no
Picks , 700 yards . 98 yard drive cold and 10 points in the 4th quarter against the world champs . Way to cherry pick 8 years ago . It’s now . You’re wrong about Geno strictly based on Carroll’s comments .crow please

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah well Pete said he wanted him back and that he had “ complete command of the offense “ so let’s see. My infatuation is for Seahawks who make plays . You are all wrong about Genos performance this year unless you are smarter than Pete . His words not mine I just said it months ago . I watched film . You all hang with your biases and pre conceived notions . You are wrong . Crow is here unless you think you’re smarter than Pete Carroll .and nice cherry pick from 8 years ago river . The stats that matter are 68.5 completion % 5 TD s and 1 rush TD , no
Picks , 700 yards . 98 yard drive cold and 10 points in the 4th quarter against the world champs . Way to cherry pick 8 years ago . It’s now . You’re wrong about Geno strictly based on Carroll’s comments .crow please

The Pete Defense. Ridiculous. Pete is talking up Drew Locke. He talked up Charlie Whitehurst. He talked up Tarvaris Jackson. The only person Pete was right on was Russell Wilson.

So enjoy eating your crow relying on the Pete Carroll defense. Pete pumps everyone up. The man never has a negative thing to say. Relying on Pete's word for defense of a backup QB is about as useful as taking a used car dealer's word for it on a used car. They're always going to tell you the car is great even it's a piece of junk.

[obiken]

I’ve called Pete a used car salesman more times on this site than I care to count. I forget about HawkTalk, he’s a cop now, The Cult of Pete. There’s no reasoning with a member of a cult, there is no evidence that can dissuade them off their confirmation bias. It doesn’t matter what you bring up, all of Pete’s bad free-agent moves, his horrible drafting, and the general erosion of the team over the last 5 to 6 years. He’s like a Trump supporter now, time is the only proof in the pudding.

[RiverDog]

Yeah well Pete said he wanted him back and that he had “ complete command of the offense “ so let’s see. My infatuation is for Seahawks who make plays . You are all wrong about Genos performance this year unless you are smarter than Pete . His words not mine I just said it months ago . I watched film . You all hang with your biases and pre conceived notions . You are wrong . Crow is here unless you think you’re smarter than Pete Carroll .and nice cherry pick from 8 years ago river . The stats that matter are 68.5 completion % 5 TD s and 1 rush TD , no
Picks , 700 yards . 98 yard drive cold and 10 points in the 4th quarter against the world champs . Way to cherry pick 8 years ago . It’s now . You’re wrong about Geno strictly based on Carroll’s comments .crow please

The Pete Defense. Ridiculous. Pete is talking up Drew Locke. He talked up Charlie Whitehurst. He talked up Tarvaris Jackson. The only person Pete was right on was Russell Wilson.

So enjoy eating your crow relying on the Pete Carroll defense. Pete pumps everyone up. The man never has a negative thing to say. Relying on Pete's word for defense of a backup QB is about as useful as taking a used car dealer's word for it on a used car. They're always going to tell you the car is great even it's a piece of junk.

Next to the sun rising in the east and setting in the west, if there's one constant in this world, it's that Pete Carroll is full of more chit than a Christmas turkey. Do you remember the "We're going to build around Tavaris!" remark made some 12 years ago? Pete followed that up by signing the most sought after FA QB then drafted Russell in the 3rd round. Jackson didn't even play in the preseason. If Pete told me that I had nothing to worry about, I'd go find the biggest, thickest body armor suit I could buy and wear it 24/7.

We may end up bringing in Geno and letting him compete for the starting job, but using Pete as an indicator of our intentions is of zero value.

[Hawktawk]

68.5 % 102 QBR 700 yards 6 TDs and a 98 yard drive , 140 yards and 10 points in the 4 th quarter against the Rams as the starter wet his pants like every rams game and scored 17 total in 2 games . In his brief sample he ran the offense well.

Anyone who assumes I think he’s Russ needs to learn reading comprehension. I said he’s a starter caliber backup . Nothing more nothing less . So you all were wrong because you said he sucks and you keep pointing out stats from almost a decade ago . Some won’t eat crow on here . He could be in the pro bowl you won’t eat it .

[NorthHawk]

If he's so great, why haven't other teams tried to sign him? He's free to sign anywhere after all.

[RiverDog]

68.5 % 102 QBR 700 yards 6 TDs and a 98 yard drive , 140 yards and 10 points in the 4 th quarter against the Rams as the starter wet his pants like every rams game and scored 17 total in 2 games . In his brief sample he ran the offense well.

Anyone who assumes I think he’s Russ needs to learn reading comprehension. I said he’s a starter caliber backup . Nothing more nothing less . So you all were wrong because you said he sucks and you keep pointing out stats from almost a decade ago . Some won’t eat crow on here . He could be in the pro bowl you won’t eat it .

Geno is not starter caliber. There are 32 NFL GM's that support that opinion and none that support yours. He's a backup, and an average one at that. As North Hawk said, if he were 'starter caliber', someone would have signed him by now.

[obiken]

We have to keep Northhawk and Hawktalk separate, which unlike ME, a lot of you have been able to do!!

[Aseahawkfan]

68.5 % 102 QBR 700 yards 6 TDs and a 98 yard drive , 140 yards and 10 points in the 4 th quarter against the Rams as the starter wet his pants like every rams game and scored 17 total in 2 games . In his brief sample he ran the offense well.

Anyone who assumes I think he’s Russ needs to learn reading comprehension. I said he’s a starter caliber backup . Nothing more nothing less . So you all were wrong because you said he sucks and you keep pointing out stats from almost a decade ago . Some won’t eat crow on here . He could be in the pro bowl you won’t eat it .

Because he won't be in the Pro Bowl. You were talking him up as better than Russ. Why are you pretending you weren't doing this? You very much were. And he isn't and never will be.

And he's not a viable replacement for Russ. He got his chance to prove he's a starter caliber QB for years. He couldn't cut it. Now he's a serviceable backup that Pete and John don't appear to have signed yet for all of Pete's talk. Will be brought into camp to compete? Who knows.

If Pete's words are in any way more than the usual out of his mouth, then Geno should be the number one starter option in camp come start of season. If he isn't, then I guess Pete was just yapping like he usually does.

[Hawktawk]

Because he won't be in the Pro Bowl. You were talking him up as better than Russ. Why are you pretending you weren't doing this? You very much were. And he isn't and never will be.

Baloney. It’s insulting that you suggest I would ever consider Geno in the same stratosphere as Russ in his prime . Find me the post I said this ? Or stop spitting it .

As for this year ? Geno had 3 games and a quarter . In the quarter vs the Rams he had 10 points , a TD to DK. A 98 yard drive in his first real action in 5 years . In one quarter he had almost as many passing yards and 3 more points than Russ in 3 quarters . He also scrambled for 23 yards on 3 carries for a 7 yard average . Russ had 2 for 10. Russ had lost 3 of 4 when hurt . Geno went 1-2 but was one play from winning all of them . In his final start vs Jax he completed his first 15 passes of the game , most in the nfl in 21. Completed 80 % of his passes . 138 qbr..

the offense averaged 20 points in his time , drug down by a tough game vs the Saints . Russ returned and scored 27 points in 3 games , a 9 point PG average losing to stiffs like Colt McCoy . Oh wait he’s also starter caliber backup since he beat the little dictator twice in 2 years . Taylor Heinike . Nick Foles totally outplayed him . Another Starter quality backup with a Lombardi . The dumbest thing the Seahawks did this year was let the little dictator force his way on the field to get shut out and waste a great defensive effort . Off an 80% completion day it would have been smart to play Geno vs GB and let Russ sit another week or 2. But oh no little dictator with foot out the door had to prove he was Superman . We already had the argument months ago so spare me .

And he's not a viable replacement for Russ. He got his chance to prove he's a starter caliber QB for years. He couldn't cut it. Now he's a serviceable backup that Pete and John don't appear to have signed yet for all of Pete's talk. Will be brought into camp to compete? Who knows.

Russ sucked this year . A lot of people can replace 3 k yards and 25 TDs 12 racked up while Penney ran wild . Geno can win games for Seattle if he plays like he did in 21 . Thats film . It’s stats . The eyeball test . Is he gonna bail on his first read and run around looking for Lockett ? No.

I don’t give a sh&t who starts . I want to win . But if it winds up Geno i am not concerned if he plays like he did last season .


If Pete's words are in any way more than the usual out of his mouth, then Geno should be the number one starter option in camp come start of season. If he isn't, then I guess Pete was just yapping like he usually does.

Yeah it’s all Pete . No blame for Russ .

[Agent 86]

I have no interest in Mayfield. He's a known quantity who cannot perform at an elite level. I'd rather let the unknown quantities compete and get some draft guys.

Pete's selling Drew Locke like he's an real option and I know Pete's full of crap hype when I hear it. Pete's full of t. Drew Locke is no one. He's not the answer. Just one of the placeholders we'll be watching like we did when Pete and John first got here. Mayfield would be the same. I don't want to pay a single draft pick for a QB from other team. If some free agent QB wants to sign and compete, fine. Otherwise, let the Always Compete philosophy do its job while we stack draft picks to bring in guys to compete and see who wins.

Asea, you obviously can have your opinion on anything you want, but Drew Lock is a "no one"? That my friend is awfully disrespectful of the will, mindset, and character of a pro athlete, especially one who could be getting a chance to start in the NFL as he previously has. Clean slate and eager to prove people wrong. Big shoes to fill yes indeed, and maybe he doesn't live up to team expectations, but dude that's cold to call him a "no one". I know you don't think he's the answer but not even willing to give him a chance because of your opinion of Russ and how he should still be a Seahawk? Rhetorical man. I know the answer.

[Aseahawkfan]

Asea, you obviously can have your opinion on anything you want, but Drew Lock is a "no one"? That my friend is awfully disrespectful of the will, mindset, and character of a pro athlete, especially one who could be getting a chance to start in the NFL as he previously has. Clean slate and eager to prove people wrong. Big shoes to fill yes indeed, and maybe he doesn't live up to team expectations, but dude that's cold to call him a "no one". I know you don't think he's the answer but not even willing to give him a chance because of your opinion of Russ and how he should still be a Seahawk? Rhetorical man. I know the answer.

I never think I have any power to give someone a chance or not. I don't have any power to control the draft. Or control trades. I don't get paid for managing football teams. I'm just some fan who has been watching football for 30 years and thinks he has a clear handle on how all this works because I've seen the patterns so many times over the years.

For me this is simple, if a guy is good enough to be a starter, he would have shown it by now. I haven't watched many QBs not show they can do the job within the first few years. If Drew Locke could do the job, the Broncos wouldn't have traded him along with 2 1sts, 2 2nds, a defensive tackle, and a TE with him for Russell Wilson, a true franchise QB who has shown he can do the job for 10 years rarely missing a game and who has won a Super Bowl and been to another. Why would you trade that much and a QB you thought had any chance of being a starter?

Could Drew Locke surprise us and Used QB Pete turn out be right? Sure. Is there a high probability of it, nope. Very low, 1 in a 100 chance in my opinion.

That's how I see it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah it’s all Pete . No blame for Russ .

No. I don't blame Russ. He's doesn't manage the team. He's not the one missing on trades and draft picks and making the decision to trade the franchise QB away.

It's been 8 years since our last Super Bowl visit. Pete's tossed out Bevell, the Legion of Boom is all gone, released Bobby Wagner, gotten rid of D-coordinator Chris Rashard and Ken Norton Jr, and another OC Brian Schottenheimer. He's turned over the O-line many times. He's drafted replacements that didn't work out. He's tried to rebuild the defense. And now he's traded away his franchise QB.

This is Pete's team. He's only one more chip to play to protect himself from blame. We'll see if he plays that one soon and that's firing John Schneider. I wonder if you'll wait for that to happen before you finally accept this is Pete's team. It has been from the start. He's the architect of the team. He gets the accolades when it's doing well and the blame when it is not.

Pete made the decision to trade the franchise QB, not Russ. The team had all the power to keep him here. But Pete felt it was better to trade him. We'll see if that works out or if the team continues to flounder and Pete gets the chance to play his last blame chip in John Schneider.

So no, I don't blame the franchise QB as he doesn't control if a team wants to trade him. Same as Aaron Rodgers didn't control if he wanted to be traded when he was crying louder than Russ to be traded. Or any other QB. The team and specifically those who manage it must decide to trade a player and how they will build a team. Not any of the players.

We'll find out if Pete's decision to trade Russ works out for him. I don't blame John either. Pete runs the team. He is the one who decided to trade Russ. It never would have happened if Paul Allen were alive. But Pete has too much power with no one to check him in Seattle right now. We'll see how long that lasts. He's got one more blame chip left and that's the GM. We'll see if it comes to that or ownership finally looks at him and says, "You're done. We're moving in a new direction."

[Agent 86]

I never think I have any power to give someone a chance or not. I don't have any power to control the draft. Or control trades. I don't get paid for managing football teams. I'm just some fan who has been watching football for 30 years and thinks he has a clear handle on how all this works because I've seen the patterns so many times over the years.

For me this is simple, if a guy is good enough to be a starter, he would have shown it by now. I haven't watched many QBs not show they can do the job within the first few years. If Drew Locke could do the job, the Broncos wouldn't have traded him along with 2 1sts, 2 2nds, a defensive tackle, and a TE with him for Russell Wilson, a true franchise QB who has shown he can do the job for 10 years rarely missing a game and who has won a Super Bowl and been to another. Why would you trade that much and a QB you thought had any chance of being a starter?

Could Drew Locke surprise us and Used QB Pete turn out be right? Sure. Is there a high probability of it, nope. Very low, 1 in a 100 chance in my opinion.

That's how I see it.

Fair enough and don't necessarily disagree with the assessment. Chances are definitely low, but I say more than 1%. I am truly curious and excited to see how he does in TC and pre season, but then again I felt the same when Matt Flynn was signed and he never started a regular season game for the Seahawks.

[Aseahawkfan]

Fair enough and don't necessarily disagree with the assessment. Chances are definitely low, but I say more than 1%. I am truly curious and excited to see how he does in TC and pre season, but then again I felt the same when Matt Flynn was signed and he never started a regular season game for the Seahawks.

My feeling is that John Schneider has been scouting QBs for a while now. He's from the Green Bay tree. One thing Green Bay has been good at is drafting QBs. That may be because Green Bay GMs are taught to be constantly scouting QBs even if they don't need one. I figure John Schneider is of that mindset.

I figure John has more than a few QBs on his radar in the draft. I primarily believe Schneider made the Wilson pick. We'll see if he has a good eye for QBs now that he has to pick a second one. I'm confident Schneider knows QB is important. He's always said the two most important parts of a successful franchise are the QB and head coach. So he knows he's under the gun to solve the QB issue as fast as possible.

As much as I'm disappointed Russell is gone and believe Pete was the primary driver of trading Russ, I'm also confident Schneider will place a strong focus on finding a QB and it was Schneider (not McGloughan or anyone else) that picked Wilson. Schneider likes watching QBs. I think he has a good eye for what to look for and is always on the hunt for a good QB candidate.

[RiverDog]

As I mentioned in another thread, the odds of Drew Lock turning out to be a solid starting QB are very low. There's a long list of QB's that failed to take hold with one team then turned it around with a different one. Carson Wentz, Jamis Winston, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, and Sam Darnold, just to name a few. If they're going to be good, they're likely to be good from the get-go, like Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Justin Hebert, and so on. As a rule, if a quarterback is sub par in the first 2 or 3 years into their career, that's usually where they stay.

That doesn't mean that Lock can't defy the odds and blossom into a Pro Bowl quality QB, just that based on recent history, it isn't likely.

[Hawktawk]

Locke is a complete unknown at this point in his career . Looked effective starting the last 5 in 19 then a crusty old D coordinator who had never been a HC took over . Who knows . Tyler Polumbus doesn’t think he’s ready if he ever will be. Having watched some tape he’s mobile , big and has one of the highest velocity passes I’ve ever seen . Baby Josh Allen soma type . Lots of body beautiful guys with big arms fail . The fact there is any discussion of brining Geno back after his legal troubles tells me at least Pete is hedging his bets . He also said they are still in the QB business though so really I’m not sure either of them are convinced Locke can win . Or maybe JS is and Pete isn’t . I think both men realize if they roll out a 4-13 team and Russ goes off in Denver it’s curtains and maybe before year end . Let’s see what happens .

And Asea for the love of God Russ is gone for one reason . He wanted gone and made such a pain in the ass out if himself with the FO and started checking out they finally said Ok. Have your fandom for Russ but accept reality . He’s gone by his wishes .

[NorthHawk]

I don't think Russ made himself a pain in the ass as much as he notified them that he wasn't going to sign an extension.
This of course meant getting a bunch of draft picks (and players) or get only a 3rd round compensation selection.
The choice was pretty easy for the FO, but it started with Pete not letting the Offense run through Russ but it demands
that the QB be a "point guard" only and Russ quite rightly thinks he's better than that.

[RiverDog]

Locke is a complete unknown at this point in his career . Looked effective starting the last 5 in 19 then a crusty old D coordinator who had never been a HC took over . Who knows . Tyler Polumbus doesn’t think he’s ready if he ever will be. Having watched some tape he’s mobile , big and has one of the highest velocity passes I’ve ever seen . Baby Josh Allen soma type . Lots of body beautiful guys with big arms fail . The fact there is any discussion of brining Geno back after his legal troubles tells me at least Pete is hedging his bets . He also said they are still in the QB business though so really I’m not sure either of them are convinced Locke can win . Or maybe JS is and Pete isn’t . I think both men realize if they roll out a 4-13 team and Russ goes off in Denver it’s curtains and maybe before year end . Let’s see what happens .

And Asea for the love of God Russ is gone for one reason . He wanted gone and made such a pain in the ass out if himself with the FO and started checking out they finally said Ok. Have your fandom for Russ but accept reality . He’s gone by his wishes .

I don't think Lock is a 'complete unknown' at all. He's started 21 games in the NFL and has over 700 career passing attempts, so there's quite a bit of familiarity with what his strengths and weaknesses are. We know that he has some accuracy and jersey identification issues that he's going to have to clean up if he hopes to be successful.

If Lock doesn't come out and demonstrate better accuracy and ball security this season than he had in his 3 seasons with Denver, I don't want to sit around waiting for him to develop as the odds are he'll never be able to make it as a starter in the NFL. Next man up!

[Hawktawk]

I don't think Lock is a 'complete unknown' at all. He's started 21 games in the NFL and has over 700 career passing attempts, so there's quite a bit of familiarity with what his strengths and weaknesses are. We know that he has some accuracy and jersey identification issues that he's going to have to clean up if he hopes to be successful.

If Lock doesn't come out and demonstrate better accuracy and ball security this season than he had in his 3 seasons with Denver, I don't want to sit around waiting for him to develop as the odds are he'll never be able to make it as a starter in the NFL. Next man up!

Locke 22 after sitting on the pine most of the last 2 years is a mystery, how about that. I've said it before his early career looks a lot like Geno. 2nd rounder, threw as many to the other guys as his own for a couple years and got branded a second rate backup. Then came in here and completed 68.5 % of his passes, 700 yards and no picks as a starter.102 rating. Is there something about the Waldron offense that makes it easy on a QB who stays within the system? Is there someone in the QB coaching staff that helped Geno in his 3 years? or were the numbers a fluke by a backup who would take a dump if given the name "starter" This I know, Geno is more athletic than people think but he is not Locke. If Locke does what geno did or anywhere near that were going to the playoffs.

[Hawktawk]

Little extra digging on Genos time playing . He was 17-21 for 251 yards and 4 TDs with a QBR of 152 targeting DK. That’s ridiculous and it bears out repeating DK didn’t catch another TD for 7 games . Sometimes personal qb stats and film don’t match .

[Agent 86]

Little extra digging on Genos time playing . He was 17-21 for 251 yards and 4 TDs with a QBR of 152 targeting DK. That’s ridiculous and it bears out repeating DK didn’t catch another TD for 7 games . Sometimes personal qb stats and film don’t match .

How many games did it seem like DK would have 0-2 targets as the game was entering the 4th quarter with RW3? Seemed like way more than it should have been and I couldn't wrap my head around it. From what I remember it did seem like Geno made a point of targeting DK alot more during his 3 starts and was successful and your numbers point to that. Just a really small example of maybe a RW3 led offense isn't necessarily the only thing that needs to be relied on, there are other ways/options that can execute better than him in some areas.

It honestly felt like the offense was built on "schoolyard" plays that RW3 was so good at. And that was on the notion the O-line wasn't good. But maybe that theory is flawed and a QB like Geno or Lock can execute Waldron's offence better in certain areas.

But not the deep ball, that was pure poetry to watch RW3 drop em in there. That part will be missed and not replicated anytime soon IMO.

[Hawktawk]

Russ throws one of the best deep balls in the league and his scramble drills were amazing . It’s how he plays to compensate for his height . But earlier in his career he was more stable in the pocket . Frankly I think the offense and even the line are acceptable to move chains . Maybe not good enough for a bunch of long balls .

The McVeigh and Waldron offense is designed to abuse teams between the hash marks in the short and intermediate routes and Russ just quit throwing there . This offense is designed to have a high probability the first read is open . It’s one thing I noticed about Geno . Take the snap and drop and get rid of it . He took too many sacks but still compiled impressive stats considering 13 sacks . Whoever is starting I’ll be fascinated to see how the offense functions .

[RiverDog]

It’s one thing I noticed about Geno . Take the snap and drop and get rid of it.

Interesting how our personal feelings and bias for or against an individual can cause us to see things that don't exist. In 2021, Geno actually took slightly more time to throw than Russell did. Geno's PKT rating average of 2.5 seconds from snap to throw or pressure was slower than Russell's 2.4 seconds:

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

In fact, there were only two quarterbacks with 50+ passes that had a worse PKT rating than Geno (Taylor Heinicke and Jameis Winston).

You're looking at Geno through rose colored glasses.

[Hawktawk]

Interesting how our personal feelings and bias for or against an individual can cause us to see things that don't exist. In 2021, Geno actually took slightly more time to throw than Russell did. Geno's PKT rating average of 2.5 seconds from snap to throw or pressure was slower than Russell's 2.4 seconds:

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

In fact, there were only two quarterbacks with 50+ passes that had a worse PKT rating than Geno (Taylor Heinicke and Jameis Winston).

You're looking at Geno through rose colored glasses.

Hmm both are slow as apparently only 3 are worse than the 35 millions dollar new offensive coordinator for Denver . And the "or pressure" part of the stat might pertain to the Steelers game at Heinz field. Watt sacked Geno 5 times, tipped 2 passes, hit him several other times including Geno standing in and Watt leveling him after the throw. And yet 72% completion %, threw to 10 receivers and a last second drive to OT which another guy I just cant remember the last one.

Yea misperception, Ill eat it but I saw so many throws to NFL open guys, between the hash marks, the incredible stats to DK but I'm sure you have some explanation for why that doesn't matter. Hell you watched him complete his first 15 vs Jax live and came home complaining he only threw to 2 guys completing 80% of his throws and accounting for 24 points in a 31-7 Peteball masterpiece. I have rose colored glasses and you have Stevie wonder glasses regarding Geno

What none of you Geno haters get is that his name could be Elmer Fudd, its not the point. HES THE FIRST GUY NOT NAMED RUSSEL WILSON TO START IN 10 SEASONS. ANALYZE IT WITHOUT BIAS AND EMOTION BECAUSE ITS A GLIMPSE INTO THE FUTURE REGARDLESS OF WHO IS BEHIND CENTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cyberspace sucks when you are trying to make a point, open peoples eyes. You say Genos a stiff, a second rate backup. Lets assume that's true. Then the Seattle Seahawks roster and coaches are not that bad. How else did a stiff do what he did statistically. Wake up Hawks fans! I am optimistic because I saw what Waldron and Seattle's offensive personell did with a stiff behind center that had not played in 5 year's. And he didn't have Rashaad Penney either. Any QB will look good with play action with that guy behind you.

Might be better coaches and player than some think. Sometimes addition by subtraction actually works
PFF has Denver at 9 wins or less next year BTW.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Russ is a tough loss to replace; perhaps irreplaceable.

The thought that sticks in my mind is the Seahawks have fallen on their face in multiple playoff appearances in the last few years. Russ was no small part of that. He's the highest paid guy on the team in the top spot. I'm dragging my dead horse back out to beat, but Wilson wasn't seeing the whole field; wasn't making enough of the throws to move the chains consistently and made some big errors in playoff games. I'm not saying Geno or Lock are the answer, but the Seahawks won't find that answer by keeping Wilson. I think he's got his own idea of how he wants to run an offense and wasn't going to change his game for the Seahawks.

I'm hoping they'll be competitive, but I'm not expecting a whole lot beyond 0.500 (yes, I know you can't get win % now).

[RiverDog]

Interesting how our personal feelings and bias for or against an individual can cause us to see things that don't exist. In 2021, Geno actually took slightly more time to throw than Russell did. Geno's PKT rating average of 2.5 seconds from snap to throw or pressure was slower than Russell's 2.4 seconds:

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

In fact, there were only two quarterbacks with 50+ passes that had a worse PKT rating than Geno (Taylor Heinicke and Jameis Winston).

You're looking at Geno through rose colored glasses.

Hmm both are slow as apparently only 3 are worse than the 35 millions dollar new offensive coordinator for Denver . And the "or pressure" part of the stat might pertain to the Steelers game at Heinz field. Watt sacked Geno 5 times, tipped 2 passes, hit him several other times including Geno standing in and Watt leveling him after the throw. And yet 72% completion %, threw to 10 receivers and a last second drive to OT which another guy I just cant remember the last one.

The way I understand the PKT stat, they stop the time when they either release the ball or when they get pressure, which factors out the pass rush, scrambling, etc, so your TJ Watt excuse doesn't hunt.

I'm not sure how you figure that the 35 millions dollar new offensive coordinator for Denver is better than just 3 others as there's a whole bunch of QB's at the 2.5 second mark, including not only Geno, but Lamar Jackson, Teddy Bridgewater, Carson Wentz, Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold, Zach Wilson, et al. all worse than Russell's 2.4 seconds. Your anti Russell bias is showing.

[Aseahawkfan]

Geno isn't a starting caliber QB and Pete can spin it any way he wants and I'm not buying it. Pete's in full spin mode like he always is. I'm a prove it on the field or I don't believe it person. So the only way I change my mind is winning consistently over time.

[Hawktawk]

Geno isn't a starting caliber QB and Pete can spin it any way he wants and I'm not buying it. Pete's in full spin mode like he always is. I'm a prove it on the field or I don't believe it person. So the only way I change my mind is winning consistently over time.

Let’s assume Geno isn’t starter material . I’ll go there . Explain his connection with DK compared to when Russ came back then . His 68.5 completion % . 5 TDs and no picks as a starter . 1 total turnover as a starter . 102 qbr . 20 for 24 , 80% completion 2 TDs and a rush TD in his finale before Russ pitched a shutout behind that same line with those same skill people as our defense held Rodgers to 3 points into the 4th quarter .

Assuming he’s just a backup and I can accept that viewpoint how did he compile starter type numbers most of his 13 quarters ?

Either he’s better than we thought or our team and coaching staff is better than we thought . Or it was a fluke for 13 quarters . Can’t all be true . But his completion % was almost 4% higher than Russ after being a historically inaccurate Qb through his entire career . Explain that . I mean it sounds like if we want to trade DK everyone wants him . But he wasn’t enough for Russ . Took him 7 games back to throw him a TD . Facts are troublesome .

[NorthHawk]

Explain to us why the 10 or so teams that are desperate for a QB upgrade haven't signed him.
Lots of players can get on a streak for a short term then fade away. That's why they aren't starters. Geno over the course of his career hasn't shown
that he can sustain a high level of play, and that's why he's a backup. Much like Cold McCoy in that way and maybe Nick Foles.

[RiverDog]

Hawktalk, you really need to quit while you're behind. No one is buying your Geno argument. You are basing your case on a very small sample, cherry picking stats by telling us that his previous seasons don't count because they were 10 years old, and even that wasn't accurate as he was a rookie in 2013. The game of his that you keep trumpeting, the lone win in his 3 starts, was at home in perfect weather conditions in a game that was lopsided both offensively and defensively and against a team that finished with a league worst 3-14 record and with absolutely nothing on the line. It was a glorified preseason game. You keep telling us how you've watched all his plays this past season, yet you exposed your obvious personal bias by describing him as getting the ball out quickly when the fact is that he was one of the slowest. You've also sought to trivialize his recent off field incident. You need to recognize what's blatantly obvious to all of us: You have an obvious personal bias, and it's affecting your otherwise good judgement.

No one 'hates' Geno. Speaking for myself, I've said that I don't mind seeing him being brought back in to compete for a job. We don't have any other QB's in our system with any kind of game experience, and if nothing else, he'd make a decent backup. But he's a known quantity to Pete and Waldron, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up just like TJack, being resigned after having Pete blow smoke up his arse but not so much as seeing a snap in the preseason.

[NorthHawk]

Even the Seahawks who know best where he's at today aren't falling all over themselves trying to re-sign him.
That actually says a lot by itself.

[RiverDog]

Even the Seahawks who know best where he's at today aren't falling all over themselves trying to re-sign him. That actually says a lot by itself.

Yep. And the way Pete has been talking, they've made an offer to Geno and he's hesitating:

Geno Smith finally has the chance he’s been waiting for . . . the opportunity to compete to earn the starting quarterback position. With QB Russell Wilson traded to the Denver Broncos and only a couple of QBs on the Seahawks roster, the spot is wide open for the taking.

However, Smith remains a free agent and has yet to sign a new contract with Seattle. “It just hasn’t happened,” coach Pete Carroll told reporters at the league meetings this week in Palm Beach, FL. “It’s a negotiation . . . It would be a shame if he misses this opportunity. He has invested a lot with us, he knows our system the best. He performed well at it once he got going last year. Can he take off from where he finished up?”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... uxbndlbing

We're definitely not moving aggressively on resigning Geno. It sure sounds to me that despite Pete's lip service, they don't want overpay for a QB they plan on carrying a clipboard.

[Hawktawk]

Hawktalk, you really need to quit while you're behind. No one is buying your Geno argument. You are basing your case on a very small sample, cherry picking stats by telling us that his previous seasons don't count because they were 10 years old, and even that wasn't accurate as he was a rookie in 2013. The game of his that you keep trumpeting, the lone win in his 3 starts, was at home in perfect weather conditions in a game that was lopsided both offensively and defensively and against a team that finished with a league worst 3-14 record and with absolutely nothing on the line. It was a glorified preseason game. You keep telling us how you've watched all his plays this past season, yet you exposed your obvious personal bias by describing him as getting the ball out quickly when the fact is that he was one of the slowest. You've also sought to trivialize his recent off field incident. You need to recognize what's blatantly obvious to all of us: You have an obvious personal bias, and it's affecting your otherwise good judgement.

No one 'hates' Geno. Speaking for myself, I've said that I don't mind seeing him being brought back in to compete for a job. We don't have any other QB's in our system with any kind of game experience, and if nothing else, he'd make a decent backup. But he's a known quantity to Pete and Waldron, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up just like TJack, being resigned after having Pete blow smoke up his arse but not so much as seeing a snap in the preseason.

You’re behind Stevie wonder . I watch film . I missed on the drop back time besides it’s release or pressure you don’t even understand your own statistic if you think the night watt had didn’t affect your metric . Geno played well so you’re wrong . Carroll wants him back and sounds like he’s giving him a chance to compete to start and as I’ve said I’m fine if that’s the way we go . If he’s anything like the 4th quarter vs Rams or the Jags game we’re going deep into the playoffs . I really don’t care who starts . My entire point is he’s better by far then he was . His stats to DK alone over 17 games would be around 2 k yards and 20 TD s. His 4th quarter vs the Rams would compute to 40 points , 520 passing yards and 4 TD passes . And I know the sample size River Jesus you people sometimes . I retract zero . The dude played far better than he ever did before .

Besides if Geno isn’t signed is it possible he does have another offer ? And for the last time I did not trivialize Genos dui . I did call you out for your ridiculous comparison to Ruggs doing 156 on a residential street . I started the DUI thread . You say stuff sometimes that you even know is not true .

[RiverDog]

You’re behind Stevie wonder . I watch film . I missed on the drop back time besides it’s release or pressure you don’t even understand your own statistic if you think the night watt had didn’t affect your metric . Geno played well so you’re wrong.

Like a lot of stats, that one isn't perfect, but it's as close to objective as far as measuring how quickly a QB gets rid of the ball. Unless Watt took up residence in Geno's head like Sherman did with Kaepernick, the pass rush didn't influence that stat.

Carroll wants him back and sounds like he’s giving him a chance to compete to start...

In case you haven't noticed, Pete says a lot of things. Actions speak louder than words.

Besides if Geno isn’t signed is it possible he does have another offer ? And for the last time I did not trivialize Genos dui . I did call you out for your ridiculous comparison to Ruggs doing 156 on a residential street . I started the DUI thread . You say stuff sometimes that you even know is not true .

He doesn't have a very good offer or else he would have signed.

And as far as your trivializing the DUI, didn't you say this? To be fair he was arrested by a cone head so he was likely on the freeway . We have a 750 HP Jeep Cherokee and routinely merge at 90 plus.

You routinely merge at 90+? Unless you're talking about Texas with 85 mph speed limits, I'm calling BS. Or are you talking in kilometers per hour? Tell me again how you're not trivializing the DUI.

[Hawktawk]

You routinely merge at 90+? Unless you're talking about Texas with 85 mph speed limits, I'm calling BS. Or are you talking in kilometers per hour? Tell me again how you're not trivializing the DUI.

Yeah I merge at 90 plus . When I floor it to pass at 65 I return to my lane at 110
Plus . My wife does it a lot more than me because she picked it out and signed the papers . It’s a supercharged methanol injected intercooled 6.4 hemi Jeep . When I floor it it makes my hands shake . No converters and no mufflers just 3 inch straight pipes . See river I may be 62 but I’m not dead yet . As for Geno I started the DUI thread , talked about what a bad decision drinking and driving is , partly based on my own experience . I said it might cost him his career based on his marginal status . Then you compared a guy who got popped for speeding and illegal lane change and was driving intoxicated with Sherman and Ruggs . A guy who drank 2 fifths of Jamison, crashed into a barrier in a construction zone , left the scene with 3 wheels , attempted to break in to his in laws house and menaced them to the point of the father in law drawing a gun and Sherman scuffling with cop as his wife begged them not to shoot him.
Ruggs was known to light off his corvette Roman candle frequently . Social media detailed how his girlfriend was terrified of his driving . He was doing 156 on a residential street , 2 way probably 45 mph speed limit 17 shots under and was still doing 129 when he ran over a little girl and her dog .
I can walk and chew gum at the same time . Geno Fd up . Garden variety DUI as most start with a equipment violation or traffic infraction . His actions at the station were deplorable . As I’ve said it’s a further vindication of my analysis of Genos performance that they continue to show any interest at all .
But you comparing it to Sherman and Ruggs is fantastical just like saying Geno didn’t put up starter numbers .

[RiverDog]

You routinely merge at 90+? Unless you're talking about Texas with 85 mph speed limits, I'm calling BS. Or are you talking in kilometers per hour? Tell me again how you're not trivializing the DUI.

Yeah I merge at 90 plus . When I floor it to pass at 65 I return to my lane at 110
Plus . My wife does it a lot more than me because she picked it out and signed the papers . It’s a supercharged methanol injected intercooled 6.4 hemi Jeep . When I floor it it makes my hands shake . No converters and no mufflers just 3 inch straight pipes . See river I may be 62 but I’m not dead yet . As for Geno I started the DUI thread , talked about what a bad decision drinking and driving is , partly based on my own experience . I said it might cost him his career based on his marginal status . Then you compared a guy who got popped for speeding and illegal lane change and was driving intoxicated with Sherman and Ruggs . A guy who drank 2 fifths of Jamison, crashed into a barrier in a construction zone , left the scene with 3 wheels , attempted to break in to his in laws house and menaced them to the point of the father in law drawing a gun and Sherman scuffling with cop as his wife begged them not to shoot him.
Ruggs was known to light off his corvette Roman candle frequently . Social media detailed how his girlfriend was terrified of his driving . He was doing 156 on a residential street , 2 way probably 45 mph speed limit 17 shots under and was still doing 129 when he ran over a little girl and her dog .
I can walk and chew gum at the same time . Geno Fd up . Garden variety DUI as most start with a equipment violation or traffic infraction . His actions at the station were deplorable . As I’ve said it’s a further vindication of my analysis of Genos performance that they continue to show any interest at all .
But you comparing it to Sherman and Ruggs is fantastical just like saying Geno didn’t put up starter numbers .

OK, fair enough. It's perfectly legal to exceed the speed limit so long as you return to it once you've completed your pass/merge. But temporarily passing someone or speeding up to merge isn't the same as traveling at sustained high speeds of 30+ mph over the speed limit, so I stand by my statement, that you're trivializing the event.

Comparing Geno's transgressions with Sherman and Ruggs is entirely appropriate. All 3 involved multiple driving infractions, all three involved alcohol, and all 3 involved resisting arrest (not sure about Ruggs). There are obviously differences in scale, but that doesn't mean that they aren't comparable.

Speeding 30+ mph over the speed limit while having been drinking then being belligerent with the arresting officers, telling one of them that he has "a little dick' is 'garden variety'? And you wonder why I accuse you of trivializing Geno's DUI.

[Hawktawk]

As I said Genos actions at the station were DEPLORABLE. But the arrest and the probable cause were fairly routine . My point about a high horsepower vehicle driving 90 is explaining how easy it is to be doing 90 and not even realize it. It’s a toenail on the pedal in a Bentley with 6 or 700 horsepower .

I can’t judge a man for a DUI because been there done that . It was the extra curricular stuff that really elevated it . I’ve never behaved like that with a law enforcement officer and I plead guilty against the advice of my attorney .

And who knows with his frame of mind he may have driven away from an accident scene . But again Sherman did in fact do so after 36 units of Jamison . Ruggs was 17 shots or the equivalent of .24 doing 156 which means Sherman should have been dead drinking twice as much . If he weren’t a famous athlete in the community with an admitted fan for a judge he would have done months in jail at a minimum . But when the judge says you’re a “pillar of the community “ or words to that effect you get off with a slap on the wrist . That’s trivializing a DUI. Geno won’t get that treatment .

I was and continue to be somewhat surprised Seattle is still interested in Geno and if I were him I’d take the offer . And get Uber on your phone .

[RiverDog]

As I said Genos actions at the station were DEPLORABLE. But the arrest and the probable cause were fairly routine . My point about a high horsepower vehicle driving 90 is explaining how easy it is to be doing 90 and not even realize it. It’s a toenail on the pedal in a Bentley with 6 or 700 horsepower.

Geno's arrest was anything but routine. It's not every DUI suspect that threatens the arresting officers, tells him that they have small dick syndrome, and needs to be physically restrained to take a court approved blood sample even with their employer's representative was present. But now that you explained your 90 mph comment, I'll give you a pass on that part of your story.

I can’t judge a man for a DUI because been there done that . It was the extra curricular stuff that really elevated it . I’ve never behaved like that with a law enforcement officer and I plead guilty against the advice of my attorney .

And who knows with his frame of mind he may have driven away from an accident scene . But again Sherman did in fact do so after 36 units of Jamison . Ruggs was 17 shots or the equivalent of .24 doing 156 which means Sherman should have been dead drinking twice as much . If he weren’t a famous athlete in the community with an admitted fan for a judge he would have done months in jail at a minimum . But when the judge says you’re a “pillar of the community “ or words to that effect you get off with a slap on the wrist . That’s trivializing a DUI. Geno won’t get that treatment .

I was and continue to be somewhat surprised Seattle is still interested in Geno and if I were him I’d take the offer . And get Uber on your phone .

Where did you see that Sherman had "36 units of Jamison"? As far as I know, his BAC was never revealed. We don't know anymore about Sherman's BAC than we do Geno's, yet you continue to repeat unsubstantiated rumors about how much Sherman had to drink. Besides, had Sherman consumed as much as you claim, he would not have been able to physically function well enough to nearly tear down a door.

The prosecutor in Sherman's case said that the punishment he received was in line with comparable cases, and neither you nor I have any tangible reason to doubt him. They know what kind of public scrutiny they were under, how they'd be stepping into a hornet's nest if Sherman were treated any differently one way or another. Through the Freedom of Information Act, news reporters have been able to search court documents and expose the Good 'ol Boy network that you and me grew up with. The kind of things you're talking about just doesn't happen anymore.

The fact that you continue to characterize Geno's arrest as 'garden variety' or routine, along with your over dramatization of Sherman's incident by making unprovable statements and accusing the prosecution without any evidence of giving Sherman a favorable sentence, all in an attempt to make Geno's DUI seem tame in comparison, indicates to me that you are trivializing it.