Chill with the JS/PC slander

[Hawktawk]

There are teams that have never been to a super bowl much less won one. Through the brilliance of Holmgren and much more so PC and JS we have been to 3 in the last 16 years. Got one stolen, won one in devastating fashion and lost one in devastating fashion because Russ burned the dinner when they let him cook. In a topsy turvy first year they shocked the defending champs in the beast quake brown bag 7-9 over 11-5.

Pete and John chose ET over what many thought would be the safety from USC most thought PC would favor. I dont know the name but not sure he played much . Beast mode was a stroke and we beat the Pack out for him. The next years team was better but a few late losses left them the same record. The 2012 draft was Pete and John and stop with the Scott Mcglaughlin nonsense. There aren't players like that in every draft but there was that year and they got them. They were lucky to get Russell and he was lucky to be drafted by them, even luckier that PC had the nuts to tell Paul Allen he paid 20 million for a backup. Most coaches wouldnt do that.

Since all the injuries and early round misses some due to injury or in the case of McDowell off field injury have partially been to blame for the decline in personnel. Christine Micheal was a miss big time. By the same token Penney showed when healthy he was well justified being picked where he was. So far crickets on him so maybe someone else noticed his performance. DK was a stroke of genius. Lockette is as good a slot reciever as their is. The connection between he and Russ was amazing. Carson was a steal taken where he was, easily a top 10 back WHEN HEALTHY. There's many examples, Brooks. Blair was a hell of a player then? injured. and they had to start paying stars, none more so than mr "hey Seattle we got a deal" what was than 3 years ago? Jamaal Adams has been beaten to death. Not as many complaints when he had 9.5 sacks but once again he was playing his best ball of the year when hurt again. Bad trade sure. Everyone has them.

But stop beating on them, blaming them for everything . As a man who has directed employees my whole life and had that golden cow employee that was untouchable and above discipline at a few stops my guess is they feel like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off their back right now. They feel energized and rejuvenated. Russ probably does too.

I'm just tired of them being blamed for Russes petulance and delivering a non winning season for the first time in 10 years. They won more games in the last 10 years than anyone but NE and Russ was a big part of it but it wasn't all him and him being gone after a bad season by him doesn't mean we are doomed.
Lets just see.

[TriCitySam]

I much appreciate them both, and made the argument in their favor many times. But fans get really spoiled very quickly and always think the grass is greener.

I looked at the past 5 drafts against GB, Balt, KC and Rams. The fact is we have just as many hits as they do, and they have bigtime misses in the first 64 as we do. So as I've said many times, it's a crapshoot and 60% of them don't make it to a 2nd contract. I think these past two drafts are going to turn out to be outstanding when we look back two or three years from now. And maybe other than one coach, Pete's core philosophy holds.

[RiverDog]

From what I've read from everyone that has commented in here, not a single person has said something that could be interpreted as slanderous about Pete and/or John. The definition of the term is to lie or make false statements about them or their reputation. Poor choice of words.

The way I look at my position is that I'm holding them accountable for their failures, and it has more to do than just poor drafting. Their trades have been worse than their drafting, including the Percy Harvin trade, the Jimmy Graham trade, and the Jamal Adams trade. Their transgressions haven't been so much about poor drafting as it has a mismanagement of their draft capital. Last season was a classic example. We went into our last draft with no #1 and just 3 picks overall.

[Hawktawk]

Honestly in the emotion of a lost season I was ready to clean house , ready to choose Russ . But I’ve watched more film this year than ever and I’ve had my mind changed . The more I’ve analyzed Russel and the offense , the defensive people it’s a better collection of people than results . The more I’ve learned about just how bad it was with Russell’s “ camp “ and the FO I wonder if it was taking a toll on the entire organization . If we’re 7-10 next year or worse then do it then but I’m excited to see what they pull out of their hat Russless in Seattle .

[Hawktawk]

From what I've read from everyone that has commented in here, not a single person has said something that could be interpreted as slanderous about Pete and/or John. The definition of the term is to lie or make false statements about them or their reputation. Poor choice of words.

The way I look at my position is that I'm holding them accountable for their failures, and it has more to do than just poor drafting. Their trades have been worse than their drafting, including the Percy Harvin trade, the Jimmy Graham trade, and the Jamal Adams trade. Their transgressions haven't been so much about poor drafting as it has a mismanagement of their draft capital. Last season was a classic example. We went into our last draft with no #1 and just 3 picks overall.

You missed my joke . DK tweeted yesterday “ chill with the Drew Locke slander” so I borrowed it . We disagree on the trades you mention other than Adams . Without Harvin that’s a lot closer Super Bowl or even possibly a loss and if that’s the goal good trade . Graham was a great player that got injured . Debate the trade of Unger and Russ inability to feature Graham he still set a single season record for tight ends . Again they won more games last ten than anyone but Belichick unless you are one that believed it is all Russ they either have good enough players or coaching or both . Tired of hearing them ragged on .

[RiverDog]

You missed my joke . DK tweeted yesterday “ chill with the Drew Locke slander” so I borrowed it . We disagree on the trades you mention other than Adams . Without Harvin that’s a lot closer Super Bowl or even possibly a loss and if that’s the goal good trade . Graham was a great player that got injured . Debate the trade of Unger and Russ inability to feature Graham he still set a single season record for tight ends . Again they won more games last ten than anyone but Belichick unless you are one that believed it is all Russ they either have good enough players or coaching or both . Tired of hearing them ragged on .

OK, fair enough about the thread title. I saw Metcalf comment about the Drew Lock slander, but I have no idea what talk he was considering slanderous. As long as you agree that no one in here has been lying about or misrepresenting PC/JS, we're good.

I'm not going to debate the Harvin and Graham trades as we'd be kicking yet another dead horse. I'm only saying that I consider those three trades I mentioned to be worse than our drafting and that we've done an overall bad job of managing our draft capital, which is one of the reasons why we have a roster that is so depleted of talent.

Despite what you or anyone else says to the contrary, Pete is the ultimate authority when it comes to our football team. If you're happy with our performance over the past 7 years, then I understand your support of him. Speaking for myself, I am not happy with the past 7 years and continue to advocate for his removal.

[curmudgeon]

Scot McCloughan WAS integral in the building of the Super Bowl teams under Carroll. Personnel department has been shall we say spotty since he left.From Wikipedia:

“Shortly after leaving the 49ers, McCloughan was hired by Seattle Seahawks general manager and close friend, John Schneider, to be a senior personnel executive on the team.[11] McCloughan accepted, and later assisted with the team's drafting of notable players in later rounds of the draft such as Russell Wilson, K. J. Wright, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman and Byron Maxwell.[2] He also had success in earlier rounds helping to draft players such as Earl Thomas, Russell Okung, Golden Tate, Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner in either the first or second round. McCloughan remained in this position until April 2014, when he again resigned due to personal issues.[1][12] After he left the Seahawks, McCloughan started up his own college scouting agency in Ferndale, Washington, where he evaluated incoming draftees for a handful of NFL teams.[1]”

[NorthHawk]

There are teams that have never been to a super bowl much less won one. Through the brilliance of Holmgren and much more so PC and JS we have been to 3 in the last 16 years. Got one stolen, won one in devastating fashion and lost one in devastating fashion because Russ burned the dinner when they let him cook. In a topsy turvy first year they shocked the defending champs in the beast quake brown bag 7-9 over 11-5.

Pete and John chose ET over what many thought would be the safety from USC most thought PC would favor. I dont know the name but not sure he played much . Beast mode was a stroke and we beat the Pack out for him. The next years team was better but a few late losses left them the same record. The 2012 draft was Pete and John and stop with the Scott Mcglaughlin nonsense. There aren't players like that in every draft but there was that year and they got them. They were lucky to get Russell and he was lucky to be drafted by them, even luckier that PC had the nuts to tell Paul Allen he paid 20 million for a backup. Most coaches wouldnt do that.

Since all the injuries and early round misses some due to injury or in the case of McDowell off field injury have partially been to blame for the decline in personnel. Christine Micheal was a miss big time. By the same token Penney showed when healthy he was well justified being picked where he was. So far crickets on him so maybe someone else noticed his performance. DK was a stroke of genius. Lockette is as good a slot reciever as their is. The connection between he and Russ was amazing. Carson was a steal taken where he was, easily a top 10 back WHEN HEALTHY. There's many examples, Brooks. Blair was a hell of a player then? injured. and they had to start paying stars, none more so than mr "hey Seattle we got a deal" what was than 3 years ago? Jamaal Adams has been beaten to death. Not as many complaints when he had 9.5 sacks but once again he was playing his best ball of the year when hurt again. Bad trade sure. Everyone has them.

But stop beating on them, blaming them for everything . As a man who has directed employees my whole life and had that golden cow employee that was untouchable and above discipline at a few stops my guess is they feel like a thousand pound weight has been lifted off their back right now. They feel energized and rejuvenated. Russ probably does too.

I'm just tired of them being blamed for Russes petulance and delivering a non winning season for the first time in 10 years. They won more games in the last 10 years than anyone but NE and Russ was a big part of it but it wasn't all him and him being gone after a bad season by him doesn't mean we are doomed.
Lets just see.

This regime took us to the top of the mountain, but didn’t follow their plan and also presided over the huge decline
in talent that has put us in the position we are today. Most FOs don’t get the chance these guys got to continue
after the fall and try to regain or rebuild to the point of becoming serious contenders again. The mistakes they
made weren’t just draft misses, but like RD said some of the worst trades in team history.

[Aseahawkfan]

What are you even talking about? You want to get the accolades when you're doing well, be prepared to take the heat when you're not.

Fact is Pete and John have allowed this roster to degrade to a non-competitive team. They did it. Not Russell Wilson. Not Ken Norton Jr. Not any of the players. But Pete and John have allowed this roster to degrade to a noncompetitive level.

They do that and they're going to get called for it.

I'm tired of seeing them trade draft picks away for guys they don't keep or who don't add a lot to team success. That crap is tiresome. It's not how they built the Super Bowl team when they arrived and it's a bad way to maintain a roster. You don't see quality teams trading like Trader Pete a this point.

Bill Belichick is widely considered the best coach of the last two decades. He builds through the draft and never overpays players. He's confident he can find the next guy to do well even when he lets guys like Chandler Jones or Richard Seymour walk. He trades them for more picks early and drafts more guys to do what he needs them to do. That is what John and Pete were doing when they were winning.

I'm not going to go quiet on criticism of the head coach and GM that have put us in a position where the best option was to trade away their Pro Bowl QB and start over because they couldn't maintain the roster using the draft and free agency.

Failing is failing and right now Pete and John have a noncompetitive team.

They'll always get credit for the great Super Bowl team and the elite defense. But past accomplishments don't mean everyone gives you a pass again and again and again when you're not doing well. They've had their "Get out of Jail Free" years following the Super Bowl. It's been 8 years since we were in the Super Bowl and we've gotten worse every year since. You can't keep getting worse and expecting everyone to keep giving you a pass and praising you.

My message as a fan for Pete and John is Get the team rebuilt to compete or get the hell out as far as I'm concerned.

[Hawktawk]

I completely agree with this last part . I’m all about a quick hook. As I’ve said after the second Rams loss I was ready to flush it . But they played well towards the end and I had come to believe Russ was coming back . I was optimistic . Then when it became clear Russ was wanting out and was going to be traded Jodi made the decision she wanted people who knew their way around the Vmack. That said her comments about Russ “ we want people who are on board “ demonstrated a certain ruthlessness . Ask the Trailblazer HC if she will pull the ripcord . It’s not being treated as a rebuild and I think if they are non competetive next year we will get our wish of at least a new coach . It appears to me John has more power than Pete now BTW.

[NorthHawk]

I have no idea what the power profile of the team is today, but it seems something has changed.
With the new DC and Desai coming on board and with what Desai supposedly obtained power wise before agreeing to sign here, it would seem
that Pete has given up some measure of influence. How much, I don't know. Maybe he's looking at this longer term and suspects like you said
if it isn't fixed he's gone, but maybe when talking with Jody he put the framework of a succession plan in front of her and this is what we are
seeing. It may be that when the final act of this play ends we will find Pete is still involved with the team, but the day to day operations will be
more traditional with the GM hiring the coach and the coach reporting to the GM. Pete would be more of a big ideas/direction guy who is
more hands on with developing and evaluating younger players and much less coaching.

As for this year, I hope it means they are dusting off the old formula for building a team and get back to drafting the best players for their
vision, but this time build on a solid base first on both sides of the Line of Scrimmage. Get the players that will be the core in the future
like a solid RB who can take the pounding and a solid Defense that can actually stop offenses in 3 plays.

[Hawktawk]

I have no idea what the power profile of the team is today, but it seems something has changed.
With the new DC and Desai coming on board and with what Desai supposedly obtained power wise before agreeing to sign here, it would seem
that Pete has given up some measure of influence. How much, I don't know. Maybe he's looking at this longer term and suspects like you said
if it isn't fixed he's gone, but maybe when talking with Jody he put the framework of a succession plan in front of her and this is what we are
seeing. It may be that when the final act of this play ends we will find Pete is still involved with the team, but the day to day operations will be
more traditional with the GM hiring the coach and the coach reporting to the GM. Pete would be more of a big ideas/direction guy who is
more hands on with developing and evaluating younger players and much less coaching.

As for this year, I hope it means they are dusting off the old formula for building a team and get back to drafting the best players for their
vision, but this time build on a solid base first on both sides of the Line of Scrimmage. Get the players that will be the core in the future
like a solid RB who can take the pounding and a solid Defense that can actually stop offenses in 3 plays.

I try to parse what is said by key words. I found it interesting that when discussing the way Wags was released Pete revealed he had hoped Wags would be back and he was overruled by Schneider from what I heard of his comments . That helped explain the confusion about him not being notified. JS did say "we owed it to him" to inform him but also pointed out Wags acts as his own agent and had been involved in numerous discussions regarding his future which was part of the disconnect. But bottom line if PC wanted him and John cut him that's a huge [power shift right there. And I dont think PC gave it up. It was taken IMO which might be a very good thing if true.