Mayfield

[trents]

ESPN is reporting that the Browns are making an all out pitch to D. Watson to come to Cleveland. Looks like Mayfield is on the way out. What do you think about him coming to Seattle for the starting QB job as opposed to Drew Lock?

My thoughts are that Mayfield is a has the competitive fire we need. That's his upside. His downside is questionable decisions making with the ball.

[NorthHawk]

Pete is all about the ball and the security of it, so on the surface he might not be a fit.
However, I don't know what was encouraged by the Browns. Did they want him to take more chances than
Mayfield wanted or was capable of being successful at? I don't know but if he is traded, I hope it's not for a high pick.

[RiverDog]

I posted some info on this in the Watson/QB thread.

Mayfield's career completion percentage is 61.6%, 60.5% in 2021, and his career TD:INT ratio is 92:56, 17:13 in 2021, so the numbers would suggest that he's not very accurate. He's also consistently ranked as one of the worst in time to throw. Especially when you take into consideration that he's playing behind one of the best offensive lines in the league (PFF had the Browns ranked #8 overall in 2021, #1 in 2020) and one of if not the best running back tandem in the league, those metrics aren't very inspiring.

I realize that numbers aren't everything, but when taken over a period of years, they do tell a story. Pete's always said that in order to be an effective QB, their completion percentage has to be 65% plus, and Mayfield is significantly below that mark and seems to be regressing, which is why the Browns are trying to move him.

And then there's this that came out in November:

Browns locker room reportedly 'very close to turning on' QB Baker Mayfield

At the core of the Browns’ issues is quarterback Baker Mayfield. Not only has he struggled mightily on the field, but he appears to have alienated not one, but two of his star wide receivers. According to Skip Bayless of Fox Sports, the Browns locker room is "very close" to turning on Mayfield at this point.

"My source told me that team is very close to turning on Baker because there's no more Odell. Because even LeBron tweeted 'Free Odell.' And once Odell got freed and goes to the Rams, everyone else in the locker room thinks, 'Gee, I wish I could be free. I wish I could get out of here too.' They are turning on Baker."

There is a reason why Mayfield is lashing out at fans and his wife is losing it on social media. They feel the heat.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/br ... ar-AARcPFE

I've never liked Mayfield from his days at Oklahoma. I can't put my finger on it, but I get this sense of arrogance about him that turns me off, so stories like the above seems to add up. If he had trouble getting along with Beckham, I doubt that he would have any better relationship with Metcalf.

Stay away from this guy!

[mykc14]

I posted some info on this in the Watson/QB thread.

Mayfield's career completion percentage is 61.6%, 60.5% in 2021, and his career TD:INT ratio is 92:56, 17:13 in 2021, so the numbers would suggest that he's not very accurate. He's also consistently ranked as one of the worst in time to throw. Especially when you take into consideration that he's playing behind one of the best offensive lines in the league (PFF had the Browns ranked #8 overall in 2021, #1 in 2020) and one of if not the best running back tandem in the league, those metrics aren't very inspiring.

I realize that numbers aren't everything, but when taken over a period of years, they do tell a story. Pete's always said that in order to be an effective QB, their completion percentage has to be 65% plus, and Mayfield is significantly below that mark and seems to be regressing, which is why the Browns are trying to move him.

And then there's this that came out in November:

Browns locker room reportedly 'very close to turning on' QB Baker Mayfield

At the core of the Browns’ issues is quarterback Baker Mayfield. Not only has he struggled mightily on the field, but he appears to have alienated not one, but two of his star wide receivers. According to Skip Bayless of Fox Sports, the Browns locker room is "very close" to turning on Mayfield at this point.

"My source told me that team is very close to turning on Baker because there's no more Odell. Because even LeBron tweeted 'Free Odell.' And once Odell got freed and goes to the Rams, everyone else in the locker room thinks, 'Gee, I wish I could be free. I wish I could get out of here too.' They are turning on Baker."

There is a reason why Mayfield is lashing out at fans and his wife is losing it on social media. They feel the heat.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/br ... ar-AARcPFE

I've never liked Mayfield from his days at Oklahoma. I can't put my finger on it, but I get this sense of arrogance about him that turns me off, so stories like the above seems to add up. If he had trouble getting along with Beckham, I doubt that he would have any better relationship with Metcalf.

Stay away from this guy!

I agree with most of this. The Browns had as much talent as anybody on offense and he couldn't get it done. His numbers given the talent and offensive scheme they have are really bad. I will give him some credit in that he was playing through a pretty bad injury last year which certainly affected his performance, but to expect him to be good here with less talent on offense seems silly. He also carries a $19 million cap hit this year and only has 1 year left on his contract which means that if he somehow did have a breakout year you are going to have to either franchise him or pay him way too much money. I agree with River on this one, pass...

[jshawaii22]

If we are going into "full rebuild mode" then we don't need Baker and the baggage he would bring with him at all. #1, he would want a multi-year big contract.
My opinion would be that it looks like one of the top 2 QB's will be available with the #9 pick or possibly another RW down the line, but I'd say pick up Marcus Mariota, who would play on the cheap, sign him for 2 years and move forward.

[RiverDog]

If we are going into "full rebuild mode" then we don't need Baker and the baggage he would bring with him at all. #1, he would want a multi-year big contract.
My opinion would be that it looks like one of the top 2 QB's will be available with the #9 pick or possibly another RW down the line, but I'd say pick up Marcus Mariota, who would play on the cheap, sign him for 2 years and move forward.

Even if he were cheap, Mayfield isn't that good. As Bill Parcells once said about a QB of his, he has a problem with jersey identification. He has accuracy issues and he holds onto the ball too god damned long, not to mention some of the rumors about his leadership or lack thereof.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Yes, Mariota or Taylor or trade for Minschew. I don't like any in the draft as an early pick.

[RiverDog]

Yes, Mariota or Taylor or trade for Minschew. I don't like any in the draft as an early pick.

I only want to trade a 3rd day pick for Minshew. Philly really likes him and we're unlikely to pry him loose from them for that price, but who knows.

[govandals]

I watched every snap Minshew took at Wazzu. His popularity was off the charts at Pullman. I like him as a fun player and person. However, I don't see him as Pete Carrol type QB at all.

[Agent 86]

Tyrod Taylor is off the market. Signed with the Giants.

I see Mariota/Geno as the only real option to sign as a FA. I know there are gonna be Kap rumours as well. I truly think they are handing the keys to the car to Lock but have to think they are going to bring in some kind of veteran presence. That's why I think it will be him and Geno in camp and that is gonna be underwhelming to the majority of the fanbase given who we traded away.

[NorthHawk]

Any QB they bring in this year will be a short term bridge to a better talent, whether it's this year, next year, or the year after and so on.

[govandals]

So Mayfield has asked for a trade. Bowns say they are "not accommodating his request" Haha!

[NorthHawk]

A late report has us exploring a trade for Mayfield.

https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/ ... e-seahawks

[Hawktawk]

Maybe I’m just stuck on a few games Ive watched . The one that comes to mind was the wild card at Heinz Field in 2020. His line was so banged up he met his left tackle in the locker room before the game . He was brilliant in that game and competitive in the divisional . I believe OBJ was hurt as well . This year it fell off a cliff . I’ve seen the guy play brilliant UNDER PRESSURE which I have not seen from our stable lately . Lockes issues include a lack of confidence. Mayfield has plenty . Plus after 10 years of slick polished measured statements that say nothing I find an earthy genuinely honest heart on sleeve emotion guy that speaks extremely plain a bit refreshing . A little nut grab if he’s disrespected ill say this for him . When he plays bad he goes right to the podium and admits it , very hard on himself . No talk of being hit or needing better teammates . It sounds like the Browns won’t release him after being shut down by Watson . If it’s such a great roster why didn’t he go there?
Minshew is my first choice but I’d welcome Mayfield to
The team .

[c_hawkbob]

Now that it looks like Watson is going to the Browns maybe Baker will wind up coming our way.

[mykc14]

Now that it looks like Watson is going to the Browns maybe Baker will wind up coming our way.

Wow, Browns out of left field (well actually maybe more like center field because they were in the running up until a few days ago, but either way a bit of a surprise at this point). I wonder if Mayfield, in part, forced their hand on this. If Mayfield was adamant that he wouldn't play for the Browns maybe they felt that they had to do something special to get Watson. $230 million, plus whatever you traded for him, plus his contract wasn't trade friendly to begin with, plus the massage parlor question marks makes this a HUGE investment. It will be interesting to see if they redo his contract before the trade, making Houston take on some of that money.

[curmudgeon]

Baker wants Indy…..

[NorthHawk]

Does he have any leverage?

[mykc14]

Now that it looks like Watson is going to the Browns maybe Baker will wind up coming our way.

Increases the likelihood for sure. Supposedly he wants to go to Indy or Seattle. Both are good fits for different reasons, but at the end of the day you are getting him on a 1 year deal with a cap hit of 19 million. If the Hawks think he really can be the guy who can eventually get you to a SB then you pull the trigger, but if you do trade for him you have to be ready extend him at $40 mil/year if you like him. I think, as much as I like the idea of Mayfield, I would pass.

[c_hawkbob]

Now that it looks like Watson is going to the Browns maybe Baker will wind up coming our way.

Increases the likelihood for sure. Supposedly he wants to go to Indy or Seattle. Both are good fits for different reasons, but at the end of the day you are getting him on a 1 year deal with a cap hit of 19 million. If the Hawks think he really can be the guy who can eventually get you to a SB then you pull the trigger, but if you do trade for him you have to be ready extend him at $40 mil/year if you like him. I think, as much as I like the idea of Mayfield, I would pass.

Baker would have to take us deep into the playoffs to command $40M/year. He's just not on that tier yet.

[Hawktawk]

Mayfield took the Browns to the divisional in 2020. Their win over Pittsburgh on the road in the playoffs hadn’t happened in decades . Compared to the average Cleveland QB the last 20 years he’s a rock star . They play in a division with 2 playoff teams and one in the Ravens that should have . Guy was playing hurt . As for his team turning on him our former guy wasn’t making many friends here either . Winning cures a lot of stuff and losing breeds a lot of stuff .

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Someone commenting on Field Gulls mentioned maybe sign him to a small extension. Could reduce his cap hit a bit and give Seattle a bargain for a year or two if his play takes off.

[mykc14]

Baker would have to take us deep into the playoffs to command $40M/year. He's just not on that tier yet.

That's what I mean, if he plays well we are going to be right back where we were with RW. At the end of the day with Baker, no matter what our record ends up either he plays well enough to earn a major payday, which puts us right back to where we were before (although we could spread his cap hit in out a number of years if he's willing to work with us) or he isn't very good and we wasted 19 million and the draft capital to get him when we could have paid a guy like Drew Lock or Mariota much less to play at the same level. My issue with the move wouldn't be Mayfield who I would love to have play for us for a year to see how he fits in this offense, my issue is his 19 mill cap hit this year. We need to infuse our roster with talent and Mayfield on a 1 year rental at 19 million is taking 19 million we could put towards the trenches.

[mykc14]

Someone commenting on Field Gulls mentioned maybe sign him to a small extension. Could reduce his cap hit a bit and give Seattle a bargain for a year or two if his play takes off.

That could work but he is guaranteed 19 million this year no matter what. How much more would you have to guarantee him to sign some sort of extension? He has to believe enough in himself to think that he will get a decent payday after this year no matter what. Why would he even put himself in a position to sign even a 1 year extension at 20 more million unless maybe that 20 million is guaranteed, which would be pretty stupid for the Hawks, because they would be putting themselves in a situation where they are now guaranteeing Mayfield almost 40 million. I don't see a situation in which we extend him unless it is one of those 'void year' type of contracts, which I wouldn't want to do in this situation. The only way this works, IMO is if the Browns take a big chunk of that contract (like at least 9 million). In order to do that the Hawks would have to give a higher draft pick which I don't like, maybe even something as high as a 2nd. At the end of the day I just don't see this making any sense for the Hawks.

[c_hawkbob]

Baker would have to take us deep into the playoffs to command $40M/year. He's just not on that tier yet.

That's what I mean, if he plays well we are going to be right back where we were with RW.

We should be so lucky.

We need to infuse our roster with talent and Mayfield on a 1 year rental at 19 million is taking 19 million we could put towards the trenches.

Having a Franchise QB on your roster is much more important than you seem to think.

[RiverDog]

Baker (Mayfield) would have to take us deep into the playoffs to command $40M/year. He's just not on that tier yet.

Agreed that Mayfield isn't on that tier yet, and given that he's been in the league for 4 years makes it unlikely that he'll ever reach that tier.

I do think it a legitimate point to bring up the fact that Mayfield has just one year left on his rookie deal and would have to be extended the following season should we want to retain him. However, you can say that about a number of potential QB's, like Mariota and Taylor, both free agents, or a potential trade for Minshew, that would want to be paid even if they have a mediocre season.

[obiken]

I would rather have Mayfield than drew lock. Drew Locke is John Schneider’s freaking Ace in the hole, to me that is totally and completely ludicrous. If our plan is to run Locke as our starting quarterback, I’m done I’m out, I won’t watch a game this year.

[RiverDog]

I would rather have Mayfield than drew lock. Drew Locke is John Schneider’s freaking Ace in the hole, to me that is totally and completely ludicrous. If our plan is to run Locke as our starting quarterback, I’m done I’m out, I won’t watch a game this year.

I can assure you that Drew Lock isn't the 'plan'. Lock has never been mentioned anywhere as the heir apparent. The plan is to bring in several QB's to compete with Lock for the starting job. It's much the same plan that teams like ours that lost their starting quarterback and don't have a seasoned, veteran QB waiting in the wings.

The free agency period just started and the draft is over a month away. Let's give then some time to fill in the roster before we start declaring that we're 'done'.

[obiken]

I can assure you that Drew Lock isn't the 'plan'. Lock has never been mentioned anywhere as the heir apparent. The plan is to bring in several QB's to compete with Lock for the starting job. It's much the same plan that teams like ours that lost their starting quarterback and don't have a seasoned, veteran QB waiting in the wings.

The free agency period just started and the draft is over a month away. Let's give then some time to fill in the roster before we start declaring that we're 'done'.

Okay, I am going to trust you this one time River!

[NorthHawk]

Mayfield started playing "hero ball" his last couple of years, but his first year wasn't bad in the sense that he got
things done within the limited scheme of that years Offense. It might be that if he came here and with Pete
emphasizing no turnovers, he might be effective. But if we traded for him, I wouldn't extend him until I could
see if he can take to Pete Ball or if his ego is too big to dial it back. I still wouldn't give up more than a 5th for
him, though as anything more it too much risk.

[RiverDog]

Regarding Mayfield's turnover ratio and accuracy problems. He played behind one of the top offensive lines in the league, one of the best 1-2 punch running attacks, plus he had some damn good receiving talent in the form of Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry that's at least equal to what he'd have here. Cleveland should have been a perfect environment for him to thrive, yet his turnover ratio and completion percentages lagged, and not just for one season. His 4 year career numbers aren't a lot better than those he put up in 2021.

So now, we're going to expect him to play behind a substandard offensive line with a less reliable running back situation and expect him to improve on what he did in Cleveland? Even if we gave up only a 5th rounder, which I think is extremely unlikely that he'd come that cheap, I wouldn't want him. How many quarterbacks have put up 4 bad seasons then suddenly turned it around?

[NorthHawk]

Regarding Mayfield's turnover ratio and accuracy problems. He played behind one of the top offensive lines in the league, one of the best 1-2 punch running attacks, plus he had some damn good receiving talent in the form of Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry that's at least equal to what he'd have here. Cleveland should have been a perfect environment for him to thrive, yet his turnover ratio and completion percentages lagged, and not just for one season. His 4 year career numbers aren't a lot better than those he put up in 2021.

So now, we're going to expect him to play behind a substandard offensive line with a less reliable running back situation and expect him to improve on what he did in Cleveland? Even if we gave up only a 5th rounder, which I think is extremely unlikely that he'd come that cheap, I wouldn't want him. How many quarterbacks have put up 4 bad seasons then suddenly turned it around?

Yes, because Pete Ball limits what a QB is allowed to do. Mayfield was trying at times to be Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson but without the talent.
Pete's Offense and emphasis on not turning the ball over limits the opportunities to do that with the punishment of not playing. Mayfield can do that
but he can't do what Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, and others can pull off successfully. Pete's Offense is good for a QB who is good but not great and confines
QBs that have Franchise QB talent. Mayfield can be good, but not great.
But I still wouldn't give up a lot for him because he might be a head case.

[Oly]

Yes, because Pete Ball limits what a QB is allowed to do. Mayfield was trying at times to be Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson but without the talent.
Pete's Offense and emphasis on not turning the ball over limits the opportunities to do that with the punishment of not playing. Mayfield can do that
but he can't do what Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, and others can pull off successfully. Pete's Offense is good for a QB who is good but not great and confines
QBs that have Franchise QB talent. Mayfield can be good, but not great.
But I still wouldn't give up a lot for him because he might be a head case.

That's a great point re: Pete's offense. One of the things they loved about Wilson coming out of the draft--and one of the things he was great at until the last couple of years--was having a team-first attitude and being okay with modest passing stats. Pete needs a QB who can accept that role, and I don't know if Mayfield is that guy. The thing about this strategy is that it's incredibly hard to make it work. Winning with a good-not-great QB who puts up middling numbers is tough. But if you can make it work, it's brilliant. If the team can avoid spending huge $$ on the most expensive position in sports, that's going to help them build a deeper roster than anyone else.

I'd love to see the Hawks trade down in the draft for a 1st next year and plan on getting a QB then. Don't panic buy one of the many mediocre QBs available now. Be patient, be okay with sucking this year, and just go with Lock or Mariota or Minshew (only if we can get him for a late round pick).

[NorthHawk]

It's been said that this years draft isn't good for QB's.
It seems there is no Trevor Lawrence or Andrew Luck types who were obvious top talents, but every draft produces some surprises like Wilson in the 3rd or
Brady at 199 overall. The question is who is going to find that player? Next year is said to be stronger for QB's but none are sure things.

[RiverDog]

Yes, because Pete Ball limits what a QB is allowed to do. Mayfield was trying at times to be Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson but without the talent.
Pete's Offense and emphasis on not turning the ball over limits the opportunities to do that with the punishment of not playing. Mayfield can do that
but he can't do what Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, and others can pull off successfully. Pete's Offense is good for a QB who is good but not great and confines
QBs that have Franchise QB talent. Mayfield can be good, but not great.
But I still wouldn't give up a lot for him because he might be a head case.

How do we know that we're still going to be playing Pete Ball? Will Pete be willing to give more autonomy to Waldron, whom may want to run a more QB centric offense like he did with the Rams? Or is Pete's willingness to change his coaching philosophy and delegate more to his coordinators limited to the defensive side of the ball?

[NorthHawk]

Good question.but it's hard for me to believe he will give up his core philosophy (on either side of the ball) after developing it for 30 or 40 years.
As well, on the Offensive side if that was the intent, Wilson might not have wanted out as that's a big part of his reason for leaving.

[Hawktawk]

Good question.but it's hard for me to believe he will give up his core philosophy (on either side of the ball) after developing it for 30 or 40 years.
As well, on the Offensive side if that was the intent, Wilson might not have wanted out as that's a big part of his reason for leaving.

Clint Hurt isn’t a clipboard holder so that side is changing for sure .I could see a guy like that as a HC .

there’s nothing wrong with the offense . Pete ball won a super bowl and Wilson’s regular season stats were almost exactly the same as Baker Mayfield in 2020 with 26 TDs and 8 picks . To be fair to Russ his performance in that first super bowl was spotless , perfect . He’s never gotten credit for what a huge part of that win he was . But he didn’t win the NFC championship either year , tried to lose it both times . Really tried the second time .lost 49 Cooking up a pick .

It’s possible we win nothing without Russ but he’s proven he wins nothing without the LOB as he has 2 playoff wins in the wildcard since they broke up in spite of setting the team record for TD passes several times including 40 in 2020. Not sure why he’s complaining . Any qb in the league would drool at throwing to Lockett or DK . As Mack Strong said the other day there have been plenty of opportunities for Russ in this offense to move the chains . I could list a dozen plays from this year . He’s missing reads , missing key throws . Holding the ball .
Good luck Denver

[RiverDog]

Clint Hurt isn’t a clipboard holder so that side is changing for sure .I could see a guy like that as a HC .

there’s nothing wrong with the offense . Pete ball won a super bowl and Wilson’s regular season stats were almost exactly the same as Baker Mayfield in 2020 with 26 TDs and 8 picks . To be fair to Russ his performance in that first super bowl was spotless , perfect . He’s never gotten credit for what a huge part of that win he was . But he didn’t win the NFC championship either year , tried to lose it both times . Really tried the second time .lost 49 Cooking up a pick .

It’s possible we win nothing without Russ but he’s proven he wins nothing without the LOB as he has 2 playoff wins in the wildcard since they broke up in spite of setting the team record for TD passes several times including 40 in 2020. Not sure why he’s complaining . Any qb in the league would drool at throwing to Lockett or DK . As Mack Strong said the other day there have been plenty of opportunities for Russ in this offense to move the chains . I could list a dozen plays from this year . He’s missing reads , missing key throws . Holding the ball .
Good luck Denver

You're cherry picking Mayfield's stats. 2020 was by far his best statistical season. His other 3 were much worse. He also is consistently ranked below Russell in time to throw metrics. And even in Mayfield's best season in 2020, he still completed just 62.8% of his passes, below Pete's threshold of 65%. And while we complained about Russell's 3rd down completion percentage, Mayfield's was worse.

[mykc14]

Agreed that Mayfield isn't on that tier yet, and given that he's been in the league for 4 years makes it unlikely that he'll ever reach that tier.

I do think it a legitimate point to bring up the fact that Mayfield has just one year left on his rookie deal and would have to be extended the following season should we want to retain him. However, you can say that about a number of potential QB's, like Mariota and Taylor, both free agents, or a potential trade for Minshew, that would want to be paid even if they have a mediocre season.

$40 million dollars a year is 20% below what top QBs make. Wenz got 32 mil/year when the top QBs were getting 35. When Rodgers signed his contract for 50 mil it put guys like Carr, Mayfield, etc in that 35-40 mil range. The franchise tag next year will be over 30 million.

The difference between Mayfield and Mariota is that you aren't paying Mariota 19 mil this year and giving up a 2nd or 3rd round pick this year. You can even possibly get Mariota for 2 years on a deal less than Tribusky got from the Steelers.

[mykc14]

Having a Franchise QB on your roster is much more important than you seem to think.

Depends on your definition of a franchise QB. I don't think we can win a SB with a QB making top of the market money. Obviously you have to have very good QB play to win a SB, but I don't think we can win one under PC with a QB making over 13-14% of the cap. If we trade for Mayfield and he takes us deep into the playoffs, obviously I'd be happy, but the reality is his success would probably have more to do with the talent around him, which we can have more of given the fact that he is only taking up 9% of the salary cap. If they can structure a longer deal that spreads out his cap hit then we could have two or three more years with him at a reasonable cap hit, which would be great as it would give us a 2-3 year window to win a SB. If we infuse our roster with talent and draft a rookie in the next two years that increases our window by 3-5 years (obviously there is no guard that they will be able to draft a QB good enough to win a SB but Mayfield hasn't shown himself to be that QB yet either). You think being right back in the same situation as having RW is a good thing and I think, with Peteball especially, we are never going to win a SB with a QB making RW money.