The Vent Your Feelings Thread

[RiverDog]

Raise your hands: How many of you believed Russell when he said that he wanted to play in Seattle forever, dismissed the rumblings as just some enterprising writers trying to find a story to get 'clicks' and sell advertising? How many of you believed Pete Carroll when he said as recently as last week that we had no plans of trading Russell when all the while, they were negotiating one of the largest trades in sports history? ASF has already manned up and said he was wrong. I didn't exactly call it, but I've maintained since this time last season that I wouldn't be surprised if the rumors were true, that there must be at least some truth to them, that where there's smoke, there's usually a fire. What about the rest of you?

I've made my personal indifference towards individual team members quite clear over the years. I've made statements like "Except as it relates to overall team success, I couldn't give a rip if Russell wins the MVP," or if this or that player makes the Pro Bowl, or if Pete wins Coach of the Year. I'm all about the team, much less about the player or the coach. I've been laughed at when I tell people that I refuse to wear a jersey with a player's name/number on it (although I proudly wear a #12 "River Dog" Seahawks jersey). I've been called a Russell hater, a Pete hater, a hater hater. But I didn't have to burn a #3 Seahawks jersey last night as I'm sure others did.

After yesterday's events, hopefully ya'all can understand why I've adapted such a negative attitude towards individual players and coaches. Over the years, I've become very callous towards professional athletes that I only see through their own personal filters, the face they show the public. I am not going to invest my emotional support with an individual player or players only to have them shatter my dreams and make me feel like a jilted lover. It has the effect of clouding ones judgment, like a girl friend that's cheating on you. You love them so much that your mind filters out the obvious that everyone else sees clearly. Love is blind. I constantly remind myself that although this is a game to us, it's a business to players and coaches.

It's now apparent that if he didn't tell us bold faced lies, Russell was at the very least extremely insincere and dishonest with us, no less dishonest than Aaron Rodgers "I'm immunized" statement, and played us for a delusional, collective rube, preserving his precious Goody 2 Shoes image while selling us #3 jerseys. However, I still admire and respect him as a human being and I'm appreciative of his time here. Denver visits us this season, and if I'm in the home crowd, I'll give him a standing ovation. I'll be forever grateful for his role in providing us with the most exciting period of Seahawks football we've ever had, including our only Lombardi.

Comments?

[NorthHawk]

I've always said the Russell does what's best for Russell, and that's fine because like any pro athlete, it could all end the next play and the financial
gravy train will be gone. I believed there was something behind the talk that he wanted out or at least wasn't happy with out staid, out of date Offense
and I expected it to be between Russ and Pete/John. I firmly believe that had we jettisoned the current regime, and hired a coach like Bieneimy, Leftwich,
or the new Denver coach Hackett, Wilson would be all in with staying.

Now we are left looking for another Franchise QB. Someone who can take us over the hump to another SB. Those are rarities and even rarer when
combined with a HC that up to now hasn't shown the desire to get up to speed with today's offenses. What that means is unless drafted, we won't be
a desirable destination for any great QB. We could trade for one, or draft one, but unless we have an extremely dominating Defense to win games on
it's own, no respectable Franchise type QB would want to come here. And it's also a problem attracting other FA's. Seattle hasn't been a destination of
choice for Free Agents prior to the Wilson/LoB days and I fear that in order to attract them again, it's going to mean over paying for their services and
being used as a lever to squeeze out more money from teams that those FA's really want to go (or stay) with. Outside of money, a rudderless team
doesn't attract the best FA's as they want to win a SB or at least have a chance to do so.

We got Wilson in the 3rd round. Who would have thought he would have been the best QB out of the draft with Andrew Luck, RGIII, and others? So maybe
there is a QB in this draft that is flying under the radar, but it's going to take being struck by lightning a 2nd time to find one.

[Hawk Sista]

I never believed RW after his interview with Dan Patrick and subsequent “leaking” the list of 4 teams he’d be willing to go to. Not for one second. I’ve been torn about what to do about this rift, and if I’m honest… I didn’t care for the way Russ behaved the last year at all. When he stayed late to soak in the stadium/fans after his last home game here, it put an exclamation mark on where his head/heart were.

His “Seattle forever” quotes were clearly strategic. He wanted out & his wanting out soured me on him. I agree he’s a future HOFer, I think he’s still got a lot of good football in him, I’m sad, and I also think this was the right thing to do. I would have liked a little bigger haul from Denver, but Seattle just wasn’t where RW wanted to be… and even if it were…. No way they pay him 50+ million bucks in 24 months. Best to get something for him than to just wave bye as he signs w/ another team.

It truly just sucks to have Bobby and RW gone on the same day, but we knew the latter move was coming too. I’ll be very interested to see how the next few months pan out.

Go Hawks!

[RiverDog]

I never believed RW after his interview with Dan Patrick and subsequent “leaking” the list of 4 teams he’d be willing to go to. Not for one second. I’ve been torn about what to do about this rift, and if I’m honest… I didn’t care for the way Russ behaved the last year at all. When he stayed late to soak in the stadium/fans after his last home game here, it put an exclamation mark on where his head/heart were.

His “Seattle forever” quotes were clearly strategic. He wanted out & his wanting out soured me on him. I agree he’s a future HOFer, I think he’s still got a lot of good football in him, I’m sad, and I also think this was the right thing to do. I would have liked a little bigger haul from Denver, but Seattle just wasn’t where RW wanted to be… and even if it were…. No way they pay him 50+ million bucks in 24 months. Best to get something for him than to just wave bye as he signs w/ another team.

It truly just sucks to have Bobby and RW gone on the same day, but we knew the latter move was coming too. I’ll be very interested to see how the next few months pan out.

Go Hawks!

Nice post, Sis.

As far as getting a bigger haul from Denver, we might have been able to work out something with Washington, but they were in the same conference as us and I think I saw somewhere that Russell didn't want to play for them. Had we not been hamstrung by his no trade clause and if we didn't want to make sure that he was out of the conference, we undoubtedly would have gotten a better deal, perhaps one that would have rivaled the Herschel Walker trade. But when you consider that he had just two years left on his contract, how much money we're saving, and how we've put to rest the huge distraction and drama it was causing, it's still a pretty good trade, with 2-#1's, 2-#2's, two starting players and a former first round QB prospect. I'm not complaining.

[c_hawkbob]

It's Pete's been lying through his teeth. This deal has been in the works for over two weeks and just last week Pete was telling us we had no intention of trading Russ.

I don't blame Russ one bit. He's been a trooper about being the QB talent he is playing for a run first, defensive minded organization all these years, always saying and doing the right thing, rarely complaining (nothing like Rogers for instance, who GB has been bending over backwards to appease for a decade). Now he gets to go to a team with a great O-line, great young receivers and RBs and a great defense, AND a team that is Run by a HOF QB! They are going to do every single thing possible to put Russ in a position to succeed, something we were never willing to do. Russ is closer to the MVP now than he has ever been.

Good for Russ, good for Denver, WE got raped.

[RiverDog]

It's Pete's been lying through his teeth. This deal has been in the works for over two weeks and just last week Pete was telling us we had no intention of trading Russ.

I don't blame Russ one bit. He's been a trooper about being the QB talent he is playing for a run first, defensive minded organization all these years, always saying and doing the right thing, rarely complaining (nothing like Rogers for instance, who GB has been bending over backwards to appease for a decade). Now he gets to go to a team with a great O-line, great young receivers and RBs and a great defense, AND a team that is Run by a HOF QB! They are going to do every single thing possible to put Russ in a position to succeed, something we were never willing to do. Russ is closer to the MVP now than he has ever been.

Good for Russ, good for Denver, WE got raped.

I don't blame Russell, either. Like I said, it's a business, and players have no more of an obligation to their fans than I do to them. But he was at best disingenuous with his fans about his intentions and at the worst a lying SOS.

Whether or not we got raped remains to be seen. If Drew Lock leads us to our 2nd Lombardi, someone will be screaming rape, alright.

[Clem7]

Sheesh, this IS a feelings thread.
Look, they all lie. Pete and Russell, etc.
Bottom line is:
1) Pete and John did not want to pay 50 million plus to one guy (and it is coming due soon) at the expense of rounding off the team. Get something now as Sis said.
2) Russell has/had a no trade clause. He could have negated the Denver trade. He did not. Therefore, he wanted out plain and simple (and probably forced the hand for Seattle as making it his only destination). So much for wanting to stay in Seattle.
We may not be good for a while, or maybe we will be surprised. I am ready for either and looking forward to the changes.
Unfortunately, this action was needed. Tired of the drama. So be it.

[EmeraldBullet]

We knew it was coming. Theres still a lot of questions in our division. Girraffealo is hurt, Murray isnt happy, rams have slary cap issues. Maybe the rebuilding phase wont be too long.

[NorthHawk]

The bottom line is Russ wanted to leave so it had to be done.

[RiverDog]

Sheesh, this IS a feelings thread.
Look, they all lie. Pete and Russell, etc.
Bottom line is:
1) Pete and John did not want to pay 50 million plus to one guy (and it is coming due soon) at the expense of rounding off the team. Get something now as Sis said.
2) Russell has/had a no trade clause. He could have negated the Denver trade. He did not. Therefore, he wanted out plain and simple (and probably forced the hand for Seattle as making it his only destination). So much for wanting to stay in Seattle.
We may not be good for a while, or maybe we will be surprised. I am ready for either and looking forward to the changes.
Unfortunately, this action was needed. Tired of the drama. So be it.

Yeah, like laying down on the couch, looking at ink blots, and telling the shrink what you see. But this thread is nothing compared to what I'm seeing in the other forum I frequent and on social media.

Good post, by the way, and I agree 100%.

[RiverDog]

We knew it was coming. Theres still a lot of questions in our division. Girraffealo is hurt, Murray isnt happy, rams have slary cap issues. Maybe the rebuilding phase wont be too long.

Plus at least on paper, we have a very favorable 4th place schedule. So who knows. I'm excited, and looking forward to our new team.

[TriCitySam]

Well there some going both ways, including myself. When I raised the issue of an unhappy Russ, after the DP statements and his agent didn’t buy it. I did, but was later convinced by Pete and RW comments that things had settled down - and the big cap hit a trade would cost. Truth is nobody was 100% on this, and certainly nobody here has any real knowledge of the situation, those in the Seattle media how should have, didn’t.

Seems to me this was a joint effort by RW and the Seahawks, both made multiple positive statements in the past few months. And I understand that. You can’t say what’s really going on. To me it seems the early speculation about RW after the DP thing was true, and the ultimately decided they had reached an end. A mutual parting. Sea could have said no to the deal and RW didn’t have to approve it.

I can make a case for and a case against

[tarlhawk]

Very surprised but not overwhelmed. Both Pete and RW as liars? ...a bit harsh by ignoring the "business end" of the current NFL. I think RW got a good dose of life being complicated at times...I think his faith got him through the loss of his life coach and the injury that kept him from "saving our 2021 season". These events gave him the resolve to seek his ambitions with the urgency of time and life being fleeting if taken for granted.

I think "talks" broke down during an attempt to re-sign him to a contract extension to lessen the cap hit his current contract was causing...but RW probably wanted Pat Mahomes type money and JS had to play "bad cop" and reveal that wasn't possible.

Denver allows his football life to reset ...with Elway as a QB owner ...frustrated by his own failures at landing a QB to lead his team to glory. I also think our front office and RW parted on good terms based on the lack of acrimony/bitterness via media. Both sides took the best course available by not revealing anything to the media until it was a "done deal" and negotiations completed. We got a decent deal...not great at all...but I think our Front Office treated RW with respect by not dragging out negotiations and forcing Denver to offer too much...in return RW didn't use social media to force our GM's hand. The trade itself was unprecidented and could have gotten very ugly if not handled the way events played out.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russ gave us a great 10 years. Best Seahawks QB and best time to be Seattle fan for all those years. I'll always love and appreciate that team. When I say love I mean it in terms of my favorite team. They were great. The Legion of Boom, Russell Wilson, Marshawn Lynch. Bennett, Avril, and all our guys. It didn't end well, but what a great ride with so many high moments and they almost pulled off the second Super Bowl win but for one dumb play call. I'm not going to sully the memory spending too much time on what's gone.

We have some good draft picks. We have a new coaching staff that seems hungry. Pete Carroll has always worked best with young players just starting out. John Schneider knows what to do when he's building a team it seems better than he knows what to do maintaining a team.

So hell with it. Let's see what we can do. It's always exciting watching a team try to build itself into a contender. We're at that fun starting point where it's all about finding the best possible guys. Hopefully this injects some energy into Pete and John we haven't seen since they got here.

[obiken]

What started it all was when PC and JS went to the workouts of Josh Allen, that hurt Russ's feelings. Why? Why scout a Josh Allen when you were NEVER going to get a shot at him in the first place. Why let a future move hurt your feelers? Like Warren Moon was saying this morning, just because they are looking at someone doesnt mean they are moving off you. I agree with Cbob, Pete has to own most of this, just look at the numbers, you have to get to the level of a Kirk Cousins to be able to get a replacement of Russ. You go to Russ and say hey, give us one more year and we will get some more stuff. But no, we had to destroy it all. Pete has way too much power. IF Paul Allen would have lived, no one on this site but a football drunk would think he would have kept Pete and John, over Russ. I am off Pete, I am done. I love our team, go Hawks, but until we get rid of our 71 year old Dinosaur, I have 0 hope.

[govandals]

I stated in another thread that Russ would ask to be traded a few weeks after the Super Bowl. I'm guessing both sides wanted this divorce. We will never know the exact truth.
What amazes me is the people in Seahawkland who refused to believe this was possible. I'm mainly looking at you John Clayton. The 4 team trade list, the Hawks firing back with the season ticketholder letter, the very carefully chosen language by PCJS and RW in the last 12 months. Always leaving the door open for a divorce and never saying anything definitive about a long term commitment. All the signs were there, people who believed this was a non story were not paying attention or were in denial. Or in Clayton's case, really lazy journalism.

[Aseahawkfan]

I stated in another thread that Russ would ask to be traded a few weeks after the Super Bowl. I'm guessing both sides wanted this divorce. We will never know the exact truth.
What amazes me is the people in Seahawkland who refused to believe this was possible. I'm mainly looking at you John Clayton. The 4 team trade list, the Hawks firing back with the season ticketholder letter, the very carefully chosen language by PCJS and RW in the last 12 months. Always leaving the door open for a divorce and never saying anything definitive about a long term commitment. All the signs were there, people who believed this was a non story were not paying attention or were in denial. Or in Clayton's case, really lazy journalism.

Probably true. The ticket holder letter was the biggest warning sign I ignored. That was a very obvious sign the team wasn't on board with Russ and something was wrong. That was official as you get for a warning sign.

QBs whining happens all the time. Rodgers whined like crazy and now he's back with Green Bay. But that ticket holder letter was a clear indicator the Seahawks as an organization was not on the same page with Russ.

[govandals]

Honestly, I thought the letter was a cheap shot by PCJS.

[NorthHawk]

I stated in another thread that Russ would ask to be traded a few weeks after the Super Bowl. I'm guessing both sides wanted this divorce. We will never know the exact truth.
What amazes me is the people in Seahawkland who refused to believe this was possible. I'm mainly looking at you John Clayton. The 4 team trade list, the Hawks firing back with the season ticketholder letter, the very carefully chosen language by PCJS and RW in the last 12 months. Always leaving the door open for a divorce and never saying anything definitive about a long term commitment. All the signs were there, people who believed this was a non story were not paying attention or were in denial. Or in Clayton's case, really lazy journalism.

We don’t have a very aggressive press corp that asks the tough questions so those who just read
headlines will fall for the easy narrative. As well, Clayton was adamant that this was nothing but it
seems to me has well past his prime and might not do as much digging that he did before. And he
has a following that might be loyal or unwilling to believe otherwise.

[RiverDog]

Honestly, I thought the letter (to season ticket holders that omitted Russell) was a cheap shot by PCJS.

That likely wasn't their call. I heard someone say that had the Seahawks made mention of Russell in their letter to season ticket holders then subsequently traded him that it could have created legal problems in the sense that people who purchased season tickets under the assumption that Russell was on the team could argue that they may not have made their buying decision had they known Russell might not be on the roster come September. If they traded Russell after a letter came out and someone filed a class action lawsuit on behalf of all season ticket holders, it would have been a PR disaster. They could be found guilty of false advertising.

If that's true, then the decision to omit Russell from the letter would have been made by the team president, Chuck Arnold, as he's responsible for all financial, sales and marketing, and administrative functions of the team. Ticket sales, which includes advertising, communications with season ticket holders, etc, falls under his area of responsibility as does any legal matters involving business law.

I don't know enough about the law to determine if that's a plausible scenario, but it makes sense. Why else would they have omitted the most popular player on the team? It was a clear indication that the team was considering a trade, at least at that time.

[TriCitySam]

Nothing wrong with JS looking at Jared Allen. That's what you do -look at player, and it's childish if that upset RW. If that's the idea, then you couldn't look at anybody for fear of pissing someone else. Not been a find of RW in that regard, he's a "me" guy. Salk did a good piece on this yesterday. I'm ok with him gone, maybe you can design an offense now AND execute it.

[Hawktawk]

I’ve been a bit disenchanted for a few years now , the team in general and the morphing of Russ from a team first GO HAWKS after every interview to a petulant self centered person increasingly concerned with his brand . My first real wake up call was in the aftermath of the divisional vs Atlanta in 2016 when Russ got to the podium after a pretty brutal game and basically said we will get them next time and then made some promotional comment about some stadium deal he was in on . The next year it was “ we need more guys “ instead of “I need to get better “. Then tired of getting hit . Then yes the bald faced lies “ I hope I’m here “ I love Seattle “ then the flippant comments about wanting to win 3 or 4 more Super Bowls . Don’t throw a pick you have 2 already . We find out behind the scenes he couldn’t wait to leave . I read that he had informed Seattle that he would want Mahomes money in a new deal , forget about restructuring to help out the team .

Beyond all that as a scout said of him “ the tape doesn’t match the stats “ the best example would be the Titans game that tipped the season over where he had a 130 rating and 3 TDs but couldn’t play a lick in crunch time , lost the game in overtime then clapped back on PC when he criticized Russ for taking over in the 12 after a defensive stop and punting from the 1 after a terrible sack . I heard him pop off in the media about Pete a few times after Pete finally started calling him out after 10 years . I don’t like that . Pc may be washed up or whatever but he’s the boss and he was right about your F up.
The finger was another Russ moment . Self aggrandizement that greatly hurt the team , surely delayed his own recovery all so he could be little Superman quick healer and hand off left handed and throw the ball to the tuba player or defender or nobody. Yeah that hacked me . Someone will say he did it to help the team . BS the backup had just completed 80% 3 TDs previous game . Jerked ol Pete’s chain on the way out the door .

Yes he was great . Yes he’s a man of decent character . I believe he’s hall of fame , clearly the best we ever had . But he was as lucky to have Seattle as they were to have him . Without the LOB not sure they make the playoffs , surely neither Super Bowl. Especially the second with his 4 picks in the NFC title game . I do wish Russ well, I think a bit less of him than I did. Much less than 10 years ago . I always thought it was too good to be true and in the end it was . Good luck with that Denver . Don’t let him get hit too much and draft linemen with eyes in the back of their head . Over and out thanks for the opportunity to vent river

[RiverDog]

I’ve been a bit disenchanted for a few years now , the team in general and the morphing of Russ from a team first GO HAWKS after every interview to a petulant self centered person increasingly concerned with his brand . My first real wake up call was in the aftermath of the divisional vs Atlanta in 2016 when Russ got to the podium after a pretty brutal game and basically said we will get them next time and then made some promotional comment about some stadium deal he was in on . The next year it was “ we need more guys “ instead of “I need to get better “. Then tired of getting hit . Then yes the bald faced lies “ I hope I’m here “ I love Seattle “ then the flippant comments about wanting to win 3 or 4 more Super Bowls . Don’t throw a pick you have 2 already . We find out behind the scenes he couldn’t wait to leave . I read that he had informed Seattle that he would want Mahomes money in a new deal , forget about restructuring to help out the team .

Beyond all that as a scout said of him “ the tape doesn’t match the stats “ the best example would be the Titans game that tipped the season over where he had a 130 rating and 3 TDs but couldn’t play a lick in crunch time , lost the game in overtime then clapped back on PC when he criticized Russ for taking over in the 12 after a defensive stop and punting from the 1 after a terrible sack . I heard him pop off in the media about Pete a few times after Pete finally started calling him out after 10 years . I don’t like that . Pc may be washed up or whatever but he’s the boss and he was right about your F up.
The finger was another Russ moment . Self aggrandizement that greatly hurt the team , surely delayed his own recovery all so he could be little Superman quick healer and hand off left handed and throw the ball to the tuba player or defender or nobody. Yeah that hacked me . Someone will say he did it to help the team . BS the backup had just completed 80% 3 TDs previous game . Jerked ol Pete’s chain on the way out the door .

Yes he was great . Yes he’s a man of decent character . I believe he’s hall of fame , clearly the best we ever had . But he was as lucky to have Seattle as they were to have him . Without the LOB not sure they make the playoffs , surely neither Super Bowl. Especially the second with his 4 picks in the NFC title game . I do wish Russ well, I think a bit less of him than I did. Much less than 10 years ago . I always thought it was too good to be true and in the end it was . Good luck with that Denver . Don’t let him get hit too much and draft linemen with eyes in the back of their head . Over and out thanks for the opportunity to vent river

I agree with nearly everything you've said, and yes, that Titans game was one that tipped our season and was a great example of stats not telling the full story of a quarterback's play.

However, I'd up your character evaluation from decent to outstanding. As you noted, the man has his flaws just like we all do, but at the end of the day, he's a helluva nice guy, someone you'd love to have marry your daughter. Like any long term relationship where the little things can make a mountain out of a molehill, I've grown very weary of his constant apple polishing and over the top pollyannish image, but that doesn't mean that I don't have a very deep respect and appreciation for him. Yes, he was very disingenuous with us, but I'm not the one that has to live in a fish bowl, either, and I'm not sure if I would have handled it a lot differently. I mean, did we really expect him to come out and say what he truly felt, that him and Pete don't get along anymore? Even a "no comment" would have set off tons of rumors and speculation.

[Aseahawkfan]

I’ve been a bit disenchanted for a few years now , the team in general and the morphing of Russ from a team first GO HAWKS after every interview to a petulant self centered person increasingly concerned with his brand . My first real wake up call was in the aftermath of the divisional vs Atlanta in 2016 when Russ got to the podium after a pretty brutal game and basically said we will get them next time and then made some promotional comment about some stadium deal he was in on . The next year it was “ we need more guys “ instead of “I need to get better “. Then tired of getting hit . Then yes the bald faced lies “ I hope I’m here “ I love Seattle “ then the flippant comments about wanting to win 3 or 4 more Super Bowls . Don’t throw a pick you have 2 already . We find out behind the scenes he couldn’t wait to leave . I read that he had informed Seattle that he would want Mahomes money in a new deal , forget about restructuring to help out the team .

Beyond all that as a scout said of him “ the tape doesn’t match the stats “ the best example would be the Titans game that tipped the season over where he had a 130 rating and 3 TDs but couldn’t play a lick in crunch time , lost the game in overtime then clapped back on PC when he criticized Russ for taking over in the 12 after a defensive stop and punting from the 1 after a terrible sack . I heard him pop off in the media about Pete a few times after Pete finally started calling him out after 10 years . I don’t like that . Pc may be washed up or whatever but he’s the boss and he was right about your F up.
The finger was another Russ moment . Self aggrandizement that greatly hurt the team , surely delayed his own recovery all so he could be little Superman quick healer and hand off left handed and throw the ball to the tuba player or defender or nobody. Yeah that hacked me . Someone will say he did it to help the team . BS the backup had just completed 80% 3 TDs previous game . Jerked ol Pete’s chain on the way out the door .

Yes he was great . Yes he’s a man of decent character . I believe he’s hall of fame , clearly the best we ever had . But he was as lucky to have Seattle as they were to have him . Without the LOB not sure they make the playoffs , surely neither Super Bowl. Especially the second with his 4 picks in the NFC title game . I do wish Russ well, I think a bit less of him than I did. Much less than 10 years ago . I always thought it was too good to be true and in the end it was . Good luck with that Denver . Don’t let him get hit too much and draft linemen with eyes in the back of their head . Over and out thanks for the opportunity to vent river

I'm not sure why you say this stuff.

People on this forum and other Seahawk sites have been talking about Russell getting hit too much for years. We all know Pete and John haven't done a good job of drafting and building an O-line. It's not a debate, it's pretty much what we've all seen.

We have no idea what Russ thought.

I still don't know why you don't admit Pete and John did a terrible job of maintaining this roster after the team fell apart. Miss after miss after miss in the draft. Trading picks for players we don't keep. And just mismanaging this roster to the point they decided to blow it up and start again. How is that Russell's fault?

[TriCitySam]

Pete and John made plenty of effort with this roster, but the draft is a crap shoot. OL is a weakness, but the truth is it's the hardest to find. Truth is the last couple drafts look like wins.

[NorthHawk]

Other teams rebuilt their OLs in one year. We haven’t been able to build a good one in ten years.
It’s not about using resources to try, it’s about the inability to fix the problem.

[Hawktawk]

What started it all was when PC and JS went to the workouts of Josh Allen, that hurt Russ's feelings. Why? Why scout a Josh Allen when you were NEVER going to get a shot at him in the first place. Why let a future move hurt your feelers? Like Warren Moon was saying this morning, just because they are looking at someone doesnt mean they are moving off you. I agree with Cbob, Pete has to own most of this, just look at the numbers, you have to get to the level of a Kirk Cousins to be able to get a replacement of Russ. You go to Russ and say hey, give us one more year and we will get some more stuff. But no, we had to destroy it all. Pete has way too much power. IF Paul Allen would have lived, no one on this site but a football drunk would think he would have kept Pete and John, over Russ. I am off Pete, I am done. I love our team, go Hawks, but until we get rid of our 71 year old Dinosaur, I have 0 hope.

Id trade 5 Russ Wilson’s for 1 Josh Allen . That kids a swinging d@ck. If that ruffled feathers when they checked him out oh well . Jesus

[TriCitySam]

Other teams rebuilt their OLs in one year. We haven’t been able to build a good one in ten years.
It’s not about using resources to try, it’s about the inability to fix the problem.

Sorry, but it is in fact the hardest position to develop. To make it sound like a simple task doesn't float. But unfortunately fans think every fix is simple.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete and John made plenty of effort with this roster, but the draft is a crap shoot. OL is a weakness, but the truth is it's the hardest to find. Truth is the last couple drafts look like wins.

If the draft is a crap shoot, then you're not a good GM and don't have good scouting. This is literally what separates the great GMs from the not so great: the ability to use the draft to find talent.

Fact is John and Pete have not managed this roster well. It's obvious they have not. There isn't an argument that they have. If you look at this roster, you see nothing but average to below average players everywhere but a few positions. Even the trade for Jamal Adams wasn't a great trade as Adams has not had a great impact on the defense.

Right now the only players even on par with contending teams is the WR unit. That's pretty much it.

RBs? Nope.

O-line? Nope.

D-line? Not a great unit at all.

Special teams? Great punter.

LBs? Nope. And just released our aging Pro Bowler.

And now in the gutter at QB.

Pete and John have failed to keep this team competitive and draft replacement talent. The only thing that kept them from losing years ago was the guy they just traded: Russell Wilson. If it weren't for Russell, we wouldn't have a Super Bowl right now. We'd still be 7-10 to 10-7 even with the Legion of Boom and Marshawn. Russell was the piece of the Super Bowl team puzzle that put us over the top.

Now Russ is gone. It's going to be obvious in the coming years he was the only reason we maintained any kind of competitive record. Then some of these folks who like to pretend Russell wasn't the only one keeping this thing going will clearly see he was the only reason we were competitive.

[TriCitySam]

The facts on the draft do not back up the claim that a good GM hits all the time. Failure rate is high. 60% of picks 15-64 never get offered a 2nd contract by their team...a reason the Rams trade their picks for veterans. Stack'em up by team. You be surprised. I will say this, our OL was blocking fairly well over the past 5 games.

[Hawktawk]

I’ve been a bit disenchanted for a few years now , the team in general and the morphing of Russ from a team first GO HAWKS after every interview to a petulant self centered person increasingly concerned with his brand . My first real wake up call was in the aftermath of the divisional vs Atlanta in 2016 when Russ got to the podium after a pretty brutal game and basically said we will get them next time and then made some promotional comment about some stadium deal he was in on . The next year it was “ we need more guys “ instead of “I need to get better “. Then tired of getting hit . Then yes the bald faced lies “ I hope I’m here “ I love Seattle “ then the flippant comments about wanting to win 3 or 4 more Super Bowls . Don’t throw a pick you have 2 already . We find out behind the scenes he couldn’t wait to leave . I read that he had informed Seattle that he would want Mahomes money in a new deal , forget about restructuring to help out the team .

Beyond all that as a scout said of him “ the tape doesn’t match the stats “ the best example would be the Titans game that tipped the season over where he had a 130 rating and 3 TDs but couldn’t play a lick in crunch time , lost the game in overtime then clapped back on PC when he criticized Russ for taking over in the 12 after a defensive stop and punting from the 1 after a terrible sack . I heard him pop off in the media about Pete a few times after Pete finally started calling him out after 10 years . I don’t like that . Pc may be washed up or whatever but he’s the boss and he was right about your F up.
The finger was another Russ moment . Self aggrandizement that greatly hurt the team , surely delayed his own recovery all so he could be little Superman quick healer and hand off left handed and throw the ball to the tuba player or defender or nobody. Yeah that hacked me . Someone will say he did it to help the team . BS the backup had just completed 80% 3 TDs previous game . Jerked ol Pete’s chain on the way out the door .

Yes he was great . Yes he’s a man of decent character . I believe he’s hall of fame , clearly the best we ever had . But he was as lucky to have Seattle as they were to have him . Without the LOB not sure they make the playoffs , surely neither Super Bowl. Especially the second with his 4 picks in the NFC title game . I do wish Russ well, I think a bit less of him than I did. Much less than 10 years ago . I always thought it was too good to be true and in the end it was . Good luck with that Denver . Don’t let him get hit too much and draft linemen with eyes in the back of their head . Over and out thanks for the opportunity to vent river

I'm not sure why you say this stuff.

People on this forum and other Seahawk sites have been talking about Russell getting hit too much for years. We all know Pete and John haven't done a good job of drafting and building an O-line. It's not a debate, it's pretty much what we've all seen.

We have no idea what Russ thought.

I still don't know why you don't admit Pete and John did a terrible job of maintaining this roster after the team fell apart. Miss after miss after miss in the draft. Trading picks for players we don't keep. And just mismanaging this roster to the point they decided to blow it up and start again. How is that Russell's fault?

Asea I’ve loved Russ as much as you . So many amazing plays . But after his comments about getting hit too much Paul Moyer did an all 22 analysis of every game in the 2020 season . His conclusion was that Russ was at least partially responsible for all most half of them. For all his greatness Russ has always been prone to bailing out if he doesn’t like the first read or 2 . Now the legs aren’t quite the same . But the fact Russ as a mobile QB has been sacked far more than any man in his first 10 years is not all his lines fault . It’s a pattern . And I’ve really been studying the impact of sacks . The Total QBR ranks them very high . A ten yard sack is far worse than a hold because you lose the down . For whatever reason we had a team and QB who won 3 wild card games in 8 seasons after the worst call and pass in super bowl history . The discussion will be settled next season brother .

[Hawktawk]

The facts on the draft do not back up the claim that a good GM hits all the time. Failure rate is high. 60% of picks 15-64 never get offered a 2nd contract by their team...a reason the Rams trade their picks for veterans. Stack'em up by team. You be surprised. I will say this, our OL was blocking fairly well over the past 5 games.

I agree . The running back went off. The QB was kept clean and most of his sacks were the dumb ass hold the ball and run around variety . The line is better than it’s rated .

[Agent 86]

Thought I would post this in this thread. Article from the Athletic. Not alot of new stuff that wasn't already discussed in here but nonetheless a good read that is co authored by our old friend Mike Sando.

I could go on about how I feel but fact is the logo always comes before the player for me. I felt this was inevitable so although still a bit shocked it actually happened, not surprised. Excited to see what comes next for Seahawks football.


‘I don’t think there’s any trust’: The irreconcilable differences of Russell Wilson, Seahawks

The Athletic NFL Staff Mar 9, 2022 303
By Michael-Shawn Dugar, Jayson Jenks and Mike Sando

Russell Wilson wasn’t happy. That much was clear.

There was tension when Wilson’s agent, Mark Rodgers, got on the phone with Seahawks general manager John Schneider one year ago to broach potential trade destinations for his client. Rodgers had helped craft the narrative around Wilson’s displeasure with the Seahawks. During this call with Schneider, he relayed the teams to which Wilson would accept a trade – if a trade was what Seattle wanted.

The phrasing marked a cagey bit of semantics enabling Wilson and Rodgers to maintain that they had never asked out of Seattle, while still getting their point across. But the Seahawks had grown so weary of the drama and subterfuge surrounding Wilson that Schneider brushed off Rodgers in profane terms, according to a source. Then, in a move signaling just how rocky the relationship between team and player had become, Rodgers promptly went public, revealing to ESPN’s Adam Schefter the four teams Wilson would approve being traded to.

This week, Schneider and the Seahawks rocked the NFL with a massive trade, sending Wilson and a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for two first-round picks, two seconds, one fifth and three players. Wilson signed off on the trade by waiving his no-trade clause. The deal was stunning, both in its scope and finality, but it didn’t come out of nowhere.

For years, Rodgers reached out privately to reporters covering the team with harsh criticism for Seahawks management, especially coach Pete Carroll. In recent years, Wilson himself made it clear in interviews that he wasn’t happy with his offensive line and his lack of input in roster decisions. He also pressed Carroll to shift toward a more pass-oriented offense.

Sources said the Seahawks had become frustrated with the stream of leaks that consistently popped up hinting at Wilson’s displeasure or questioning his future in Seattle, even as Wilson’s production began to decline. Some teammates said they sensed this year that Wilson had checked out.

Several sources described the end of the relationship between Wilson and the Seahawks as a divorce in which both sides contributed to the dissolution. Wilson felt the team’s personnel misses and devotion to Carroll’s old-school offensive philosophy were holding him back and damaging his legacy. Carroll wasn’t going to abandon the formula Wilson and the Seahawks had used to claim the only Super Bowl championship in franchise history.

It was only a matter of time before this marriage ended.

Months before Wilson’s rookie season in 2012, he went to Carroll’s office. He had yet to take a snap or even be named the starter, but he produced a sheet of paper on which he had typed his objectives:

Always believe in myself.
Win multiple Super Bowls.
Lead the league in passing.

Carroll was fired up, recognizing a kindred spirit, but there was a subtle undertone: Wilson had clear ideas of how his career should go.

Early on, some players were slow to buy into Wilson, who was already handing out his own scouting reports to teammates and posting grandiose goals in his locker. Teammates talked on the plane following Wilson’s first career start, a loss, about how the Seahawks should have started veteran Matt Flynn. Wilson heard it, too, according to former fullback Michael Robinson.

Carroll avoided criticizing Wilson in front of the media and players, which bothered some of Wilson’s teammates. Assistant coaches would critique Wilson in coaches’ meetings, and Carroll would stop them: “No, no, no. We’ve got to change that for him. We’ve got to make sure that’s right for him.”

“Russell could do no wrong,” one former team executive said.

“Pete was his biggest fan,” former running backs coach Sherm Smith said.

Carroll loved Wilson’s ambition. Like Carroll, Wilson always wanted more — more responsibility, more freedom. After the Seahawks lost in the playoffs following Wilson’s rookie season, the quarterback found Carroll on the team bus to express his optimism for the future.

Carroll cut him off.

“Man, that’s just what I was thinking,” the coach said. “Let’s not just win one Super Bowl. Let’s win multiple.”

Wilson and Carroll won their first Super Bowl together the next season, then made it back the following year. They made the playoffs in their first five seasons and watched film together in Carroll’s office after Thursday practices.

“These two guys were on the same wavelength in most everything they did,” former strength coach Chris Carlisle said. “They’re totally the same.”

At the end of the 2016 season, with Wilson established as one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and Carroll as one of the best coaches, Sherm Smith spoke with Carroll, then 65, about whether the head coach had thought about retirement.

“If it wasn’t for No. 3, that’s something I might have considered,” Carroll said, according to Smith. “But, man, No. 3 happened to me.”
Things started to change in 2017.

Wilson threw a league-high 34 touchdown passes, led the team in rushing and accounted for all but three of the Seahawks’ offensive TDs. But for the first time in Wilson’s career, Seattle missed the playoffs.

Running back Marshawn Lynch, the heart and soul of the Seattle teams early in Wilson’s career, was gone. Veteran defensive players Cliff Avril, Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman suffered injuries that ended their Seahawks careers. Multiple sources said Wilson saw the moment as an opportunity for the team to make him its new focal point.

Carroll instead replaced offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell with Brian Schottenheimer as part of a move to re-establish the Seahawks’ run-first identity. The result: a 2018 offense as statistically run-heavy as any in the NFL since the Tim Tebow-led Denver Broncos of the early 2010s.

That style of play became a flashpoint during Seattle’s wild-card loss against Dallas that season. Criticism of Seattle’s run-heavy game plan was so strong that Carroll felt compelled to defend Schottenheimer during his end-of-season news conference.

“Hold it against me,” Carroll said. “I’m the guy that’s in charge of this thing.”

For Wilson, that was the problem. The guy in charge hadn’t put the ball in Wilson’s hands until it was too late.

“That should have been the moment of truth for everybody,” a source close to Wilson said.

As Wilson’s career progressed, he pushed for more involvement in roster decisions. From lobbying for acquiring Duane Brown — and adjusting his own contract to make room under the salary cap for the left tackle — to openly pushing for signing receiving weapons Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown and Greg Olsen, Wilson made clear his desire to be more involved.

“That’s the No. 1 thing he gets frustrated with: how much his input is valued or used inside the four walls of the (team facility),” one former Seahawks coach said. “Do they listen?”

Following the 2019 season, Wilson said the team needed to add more superstars in free agency and find young stars in the draft. It was a new level of public criticism from a player who had gone out of his way to avoid controversy. Wilson also again pushed for the Seahawks to run a more up-tempo offense and design a scheme similar to the one used by the eventual Super Bowl-champion Kansas City Chiefs.

Wilson got his wish to start the 2020 season as Schottenheimer unveiled a pass-first offense and Seattle raced to a 5-0 record. The quarterback dominated the MVP conversation during the season’s first half and even trademarked the phrase “Let Russ Cook.”

It was short-lived. As turnovers and losses piled up in the middle of the season, Carroll pulled back the reins. The Seahawks still won the division with a 12-4 record, but their offense went from one of the NFL’s best to mediocre. Carroll cited “philosophical differences” when firing Schottenheimer a few days after a wild-card loss to the Rams, a move the quarterback publicly lamented.

Wilson’s frustration was growing.
Sitting next to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell at the Super Bowl a few weeks later, Wilson watched Tampa Bay quarterback Tom Brady enhance his legacy with his seventh Super Bowl victory. Something seemed to trigger Wilson. He was finally willing to break Carroll’s No. 1 rule — “protect the team” — to make his discontent known.

“I’m frustrated with getting hit too much,” Wilson told reporters the morning after the game. He cited the number of times he had been sacked in his career and suggested he should have more control over personnel.

Carroll didn’t mind Wilson feeling frustrated about the way the season ended. After all, he was upset, too. The issue was making it public. “The conversation is out there that we wish we didn’t have to be sharing with the world,” Carroll said then.

Coach and quarterback had a lengthy “heart to heart” and the quarterback publicly said afterward his relationship with Carroll was “stronger than ever.” Carroll described the meeting as revisiting their background, foundation and vision for the future. “We regrouped,” he said.

But when Carroll later said that his relationship with Wilson was the best it’s ever been, a source close to the quarterback described the coach as “blowing smoke.” The sentiment on Wilson’s end was that Carroll in these discussions did nothing more than tell Wilson what he wanted to hear.

Wilson’s finger injury five weeks into the 2021 season, his rush back to the field and his poor play upon returning made this a complicated season to evaluate. But it didn’t change Wilson’s thinking that the Seahawks, as currently constructed, no longer provided Wilson the best opportunity to win Super Bowls and grow his legacy.

“I don’t think there’s any trust,” one source in Wilson’s camp said.

Without trust, the two sides couldn’t find a way to co-exist behind the scenes, which rendered their public comments meaningless. It didn’t matter that Carroll publicly dismissed trade rumors because they didn’t align with the private conversations he and Wilson were having. It didn’t matter that, ahead of the team’s home finale, Wilson said he hoped this wasn’t his final game in a Seattle uniform.

What mattered was that both sides knew the partnership was ending — so much so that after a Week 12 loss at Washington dropped Seattle to 3-8, a source close to Wilson delivered a prophetic message to a reporter covering the team:

“End of an era.”

[trents]

You can peg Russ and Pete as liars if you want. And there is definitely a sense in which that is technically true. However, there is an old saying, "Ask me no more questions and I'll tell you no more lies." Would you ask a poker player to show his cards before all the calls and raises are made? And that is what the business side of professional football is like. There are just some things you cannot talk about until everything is finally worked out. Yet, the the press is constantly hounding the parties involved to reveal their hands. Years and years ago we would have had no insight into any of the wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes until after the deals were complete. The press and the information age makes liars out of people who just need to keep their poker hands covered up it's time to show their cards.

[trents]

Drew Lock will be an upgrade to Russ Wilson in one sense. For all of us who were critical of Russ' sature, Lock is 6'4".

[Aseahawkfan]

The facts on the draft do not back up the claim that a good GM hits all the time. Failure rate is high. 60% of picks 15-64 never get offered a 2nd contract by their team...a reason the Rams trade their picks for veterans. Stack'em up by team. You be surprised. I will say this, our OL was blocking fairly well over the past 5 games.

Past 5 games is not the past 5 years. Rams drafted some nice core players like Aaron Donald and Kuiper Cupp.

The drafting and maintenance of the team has been absolutely terrible. Seattle fans are going to see how much in the coming years, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

It's been so obvious on the D-line and secondary that I can't even believe anyone even argues otherwise. They been a bad unit. No pressure. No stopping the run. Just a poorly staffed unit that didn't get a whole lot better with the addition of Jamal Adams.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree . The running back went off. The QB was kept clean and most of his sacks were the dumb ass hold the ball and run around variety . The line is better than it’s rated .

The line isn't better than it is rated. It is exactly what it is.

You're going to find out shortly the only person keeping this team in contention was Russell Wilson. We would have had a losing record every year five years ago if not for Russell Wilson. Seattle fans about to get that wake up call as to how good he really was to keep Seattle in contention after the defense fell off a cliff.

[RiverDog]

You can peg Russ and Pete as liars if you want. And there is definitely a sense in which that is technically true. However, there is an old saying, "Ask me no more questions and I'll tell you no more lies." Would you ask a poker player to show his cards before all the calls and raises are made? And that is what the business side of professional football is like. There are just some things you cannot talk about until everything is finally worked out. Yet, the the press is constantly hounding the parties involved to reveal their hands. Years and years ago we would have had no insight into any of the wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes until after the deals were complete. The press and the information age makes liars out of people who just need to keep their poker hands covered up it's time to show their cards.

Which is why I tend to tone back the criticism to some degree by say that they were disingenuous vs. bold face lying. Even a casual "no comment" would have been interpreted as irreconcilable differences. If I was asked a question like that about my boss or family, I would have given a terse "none of you f-ing business". That wouldn't have worked in Russell's case. Sometimes you have to lie to reporters just to get them away from you.

However, in Russell's case, he didn't just deny the rumors, he went way over the top in denying them, saying that he wanted to essentially play for Seattle forever. He manipulated his fans into believing that he was deeply in love with the franchise and that the thought of him wanting to leave was absurd.

I said earlier that I didn't trust Russell's denials any further than I could spit, not because it was Russell saying them so much as I've seen this act before, most notably with Alex Rodriguez, but also with Steve Hutchinson, Randy Johnson, and Ken Griffey Jr. I was not at all surprised when I first heard the news.

In Pete's case, he had to give people, including the decision makers on other teams, that we had no intentions of trading Russell in order to be coy and drive up the asking price, like the poker game you eluded to.

Hopefully this saga is a lesson to all those naive fans out there that want to believe every word that comes out of their favorite player or coaches' mouths.

[obiken]

Govandals, I disagree, Colin Cowherd has been predicting this for months, and calling out Pete Carroll this for months. This was not a shock to most Hawk fans, what I am getting from my friends and most fans, is we are arguing over who is too blame. They blame Russ, and I blame Pete. At the end of the day Pete could tank, and Russ could Flop in Denver, and both would look bad. Its just sad. I agree with Cowherd however, I think RW will rock. IF we can get Deshaun Watson, I will be back on board with PC, but I do not think he can pull that off.

[c_hawkbob]

Obviously I blame Pete as well but if we get Deshaun Watson I will totally be off him and want him fired as opposed to just wishing he were the one gone instead of Russ. I have no interest in having to root for a sexual predator ala Ben Rapistberger, no matter how good he is. 22 sexual assault civil lawsuits, investigation by a grand jury in pursuit of criminal charges with filings expected today. No thanks!