We're in full rebuild mode...let's do this

[Aseahawkfan]

No spin by Pete or John. This is full rebuild mode.

This I'm actually ok with. If Pete or John tried to sell me that trading Russ and doing this was some move to keep winning and I'd call rubbish.

But this is full rebuild mode. This is don't expect to compete for the next three or four years.

This is purge the 2nd Super Bowl loss curse off the team and bring in young, fresh players more likely to buy into Pete's philosphy.

If Pete is committed to this, then let's do this. Pete's always been better starting from scratch with no attachments. Back to the basics and the way he rebuilt last time.

I'm down for it. Rebuild me a defense Carroll. I've never loved offense though I know we need it. Rebuild me a mean, arrogant, vicious defense that can beat the other team up.

[RiverDog]

I think we're in a full rebuild, but I'm not convinced that Pete is. Does he think that he can bring in a point guard quarterback like he did with Russell, someone like Marcus Mariota, Deshawn Watson, or Tyrod Taylor, and win a Lombardi? Does he start trading these draft picks he got for Russell for current players to patch holes like he did when he pulled the trigger on the Adams trade or does he keep them in his pocket for the draft?

[Aseahawkfan]

I think we're in a full rebuild, but I'm not convinced that Pete is. Does he think that he can bring in a point guard quarterback like he did with Russell, someone like Marcus Mariota, Deshawn Watson, or Tyrod Taylor, and win a Lombardi? Does he start trading these draft picks he got for Russell for current players to patch holes like he did when he pulled the trigger on the Adams trade or does he keep them in his pocket for the draft?

Doubt it. I think Pete and John are finally getting back to how they did it when they got here. Younger players.

The Aaron Rodgers deal was insane. How you going to compete with a guy taking up 24% of the salary cap. 50 million a year with a 208 million salary cap? That's stupid.

[obiken]

I think we're in a full rebuild, but I'm not convinced that Pete is. Does he think that he can bring in a point guard quarterback like he did with Russell, someone like Marcus Mariota, Deshawn Watson, or Tyrod Taylor, and win a Lombardi? Does he start trading these draft picks he got for Russell for current players to patch holes like he did when he pulled the trigger on the Adams trade or does he keep them in his pocket for the draft?

Watson is the only one, he is in the class of Wilson, AR, PM, Burrows etc but he is mired in legality. No way we do it under PC I have no more faith in Pete, zero.

[obiken]

River, according to Brock Huard, the answer on Watson will come Friday on the Criminal end.

[Aseahawkfan]

If Pete and John pull off this rebuild by trading their expensive QB, they will reset the way you build teams to win. QB salaries are getting too insane. I don't care how good your QB is, if you have no money to build a team around him you still aren't going to win.

[obiken]

If Pete and John pull off this rebuild by trading their expensive QB, they will reset the way you build teams to win. QB salaries are getting too insane. I don't care how good your QB is, if you have no money to build a team around him you still aren't going to win.

But how do your rebuild without the Franchise QB ASHF? You can get all the parts right, the QB wrong, and not make the SB. Its not like the old days when you could win with a Rypien, Hosteler, or Phil Simms. Conversely as we saw with Joe Burrow, you can get almost everything wrong except the FCQB, and you can get there. No way I can see forward until we get rid of Pete. Its not just the drafting and talent acquisition ASHF, its the offensive philosophy is archaic.

[Aseahawkfan]

But how do your rebuild without the Franchise QB ASHF? You can get all the parts right, the QB wrong, and not make the SB. Its not like the old days when you could win with a Rypien, Hosteler, or Phil Simms. Conversely as we saw with Joe Burrow, you can get almost everything wrong except the FCQB, and you can get there. No way I can see forward until we get rid of Pete. Its not just the drafting and talent acquisition ASHF, its the offensive philosophy is archaic.

Seems to me everyone is a one off SB winner even with a QB. The modern winning formula seems to be build a great team with a cheap QB that can do enough, win once, try to get back while they're on their rookie contract, then after that plan to lose if you re-sign the guy for crazy money and can't build much of a team around them.

Only guy to buck this trend seems to have been the GOAT: Tom Brady. He took less money to win. If the QB don't want to do that, might as well rebuild once they want too much money.

[mykc14]

If Pete and John pull off this rebuild by trading their expensive QB, they will reset the way you build teams to win. QB salaries are getting too insane. I don't care how good your QB is, if you have no money to build a team around him you still aren't going to win.

That's waive been saying. Hate to lose RW but how can you win when your QB is taking up over 13% of your cap??

[mykc14]

Seems to me everyone is a one off SB winner even with a QB. The modern winning formula seems to be build a great team with a cheap QB that can do enough, win once, try to get back while they're on their rookie contract, then after that plan to lose if you re-sign the guy for crazy money and can't build much of a team around them.

Only guy to buck this trend seems to have been the GOAT: Tom Brady. He took less money to win. If the QB don't want to do that, might as well rebuild once they want too much money.

Obviously the easiest and cheapest way is to draft a really good QB and win right away. Although I do think the Rams might have exposed another way. Trade for a good veteran QB in his second or third contact. This allows you to avoid that big cap hit. It will be interesting to see how RW does with the Broncos. They are getting a $40 mil/year QB for only $24 and $27 mil over the next two years. I imagine they are going to use those years to spread out an extension for him. He might get a 5 year 225 mil extension that really is a 7 year $275 million deal which is closer to 40 million. They could easily give him cap hits of 20, 25, and 30 million over the next three years before his cap hit balloons to over 40 million. Obviously the hard part of this strategy is finding he right veteran QB. I can't really see anybody who is a great fit right now, but in a few years there could be some good options available. Obviously in the meantime you are hoping lightening strikes twice and you can draft somebody.

[obiken]

Obviously the easiest and cheapest way is to draft a really good QB and win right away. Although I do think the Rams might have exposed another way. Trade for a good veteran QB in his second or third contact. This allows you to avoid that big cap hit. It will be interesting to see how RW does with the Broncos. They are getting a $40 mil/year QB for only $24 and $27 mil over the next two years. I imagine they are going to use those years to spread out an extension for him. He might get a 5 year 225 mil extension that really is a 7 year $275 million deal which is closer to 40 million. They could easily give him cap hits of 20, 25, and 30 million over the next three years before his cap hit balloons to over 40 million. Obviously the hard part of this strategy is finding he right veteran QB. I can't really see anybody who is a great fit right now, but in a few years there could be some good options available. Obviously in the meantime you are hoping lightening strikes twice and you can draft somebody.

What are the odds on PC drafting a Franchise QB again? Slim and NONE! Oh we have flexibility, really? Like a 500 pound fat girl can do yoga now! There is NO HOPE till PC goes bye bye, get over it everyone!

[Aseahawkfan]

What are the odds on PC drafting a Franchise QB again? Slim and NONE! Oh we have flexibility, really? Like a 500 pound fat girl can do yoga now! There is NO HOPE till PC goes bye bye, get over it everyone!

You're probably right. But we also have to admit Pete was way too attached to his players at this point. He forgot about his competition mantra. Now he has no attachment to anyone. He can get back to basics. We have a bunch of picks in the next few years. If he goes back to low cost-high reward trades, turning over every rock to find talent, and drafting good talent with higher picks, then let's see what he can do. We got nothing to lose at this point.

You love the draft. Now at least got a pick high enough for you to look at some top tier talent.

We probably have a high draft pick next year too.

So let's have fun seeing what we get in the draft and let's hope for some studs.

[Oly]

Great post Asea. If we're going to rebuild--and any Hawks fan that thought we weren't going to be rebuilding in the next season or two anyway is deluding themselves--then you have to clear cap space and get picks. After sleeping on it, I am more convinced this was for the good of the franchise. With Wilson and Wags, I think they could have snagged a wild card spot but would have been eliminated from the playoffs early. Wilson was never going to win another ring in Seattle, not with this roster. The Hawks were never going to flip from top 5 pick to SB winners. The stars were all older and declining and the poor use of draft capital left the team with precious few good young players.

So, blow it up now. Get a group of young hungry guys fighting for their roster spots, what Pete did in the early days before he started crossing his fingers behind his back when he said "Always Compete." In a couple of years when the young guys come into their own (provided JS drafts better than he has been, which is a big "if") we might still have some guys in their peak years (Adams, DK, Brown, Taylor come to mind) and be competitive.

Honestly, I don't care if they run Lock out at QB this year because this year isn't about winning. With a high draft pick in next year's draft which has more QB prospects (as I understand it), we can demote or cut Lock then.

I don't think there has been a more critical draft in my time watching this team. With a great draft, the Hawks are only a few years away from reclaiming the NFCW. A bad draft and it looks like a death spiral. I just wish I had more faith in PC/JS to pull that off.

[NorthHawk]

Rodgers is getting insane money - for today's world, but I've read some articles over the last while that said the Cap is expected to increase by
about 50M the next couple of years and by the end of the decade the pool from gambling and streaming will add an extra $1Billion. That billion
has to be shared with the team, but an extra 500 million on top of an ever expanding Cap means a $50 M QB won't be so bad. Even next year
it should go up by another 10 to 15M so that's a huge jump. Remember that the Cap was lowered during Covid and now it's rebounding to where
it probably should be. It was 182M last year and is 208M this year - a 26M dollar jump. There is talk that next year it should be in the 220 - 225
million dollar range. So 45 - 50 million dollar QB's will probably become normalized quite quickly.

[tarlhawk]

With the NFL rules having been altered to the point of where very capable back-up QBs can win against decent teams with star QBs...its been happening already to many teams over the past few years. The NFL labels it as parity...but those tv ratings don't magically rise with an emphasis on Defense its the Offense...College wide receivers didn't suddenly become uber athletes in abundance. The tv ratings and money flow has influenced the best college athletes to flock to the WR position instead of the defensive secondary...so now the disparity between WR ability/skill has grown even bigger compared to their counterpart in the Defensive Secondary. Pete Carrol is not a defensive minded slug...he has brought in some younger minded defensive coaches to help create solutions to this defensive dilemma. Film study around the league has sharpened to the point where bright minds can spot subtle details "tells" of what a defense is revealing and then during a game adjustments can be made "on the fly" by your QB reads or reported back from your WR based on his own observations.

Great QBs are still hard to find but their necessity has been diminished since creating a dynasty with a franchise QB is no longer likely as the NFL parity and salary cap influences conspire to punish teams who win too often. The sport itself already can level a playing season thru injuries to key personnel or allowing dissatisfaction to spread in the locker room. The sport itself has always created/attracted uber egos and competitive assassins. The NFL has tampered with calming these egos with ridiculous rules concerning taunting/hitting a "defenseless receiver"/leading with your helmet...the tweaking seems endless at times and sometimes robs the fan of the natural attraction of a violent sport. Its akin to the NHL banning the use of fists during a hockey fight...only allowing open handed "slaps". Our viewership is being marketed/manipulated irregardless of the best interests of the participating athletes.

[NorthHawk]

I don't think that's true and I don't think the evidence supports that league GMs believe that either.
There's a reason there were 12 suitors for Russ - good QB's are necessary to succeed.

[mykc14]

- good QB's are necessary to succeed.

There is no doubt this is true, but are top 5 QB's making 20% of the team's cap necessary to be succesful?

[tarlhawk]

Full rebuild? Not sure ...until we see who tries to fill the shoes of a departed Russell Wilson. I see three scenarios.

First scenario :We trade for Gardner Minshew from Philly or Jordan Love from Green Bay...both seem unlikely since the Philly HC loves Minshew as QB insurance for his own starting QB... and Jordan Love would be a 7 million cap hit (dead money) against the Packers.

Scenario two involves a Free Agency pick-up..."Famous"Jameis Winston...a safer Teddy Bridgewater (awkward scenario if our intent is to groom Drew Lock/Jacob Eason)...or single year stop gap with Cam Newton (only as a benefit to short yardage and goal situations).

Third scenario is trade down our number 9 pick (last resort) 3-5 spots and take who survives (Malik Willis/Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett)...find a trading "partner" who really likes one of these QBs. If you take 3rd scenario you still need a QB1 to give you a winning season (avoiding a complete rebuild) while hoping your young understudy(drafted QB2) gets a year of acclimating/grooming since we play in a very tough NFC West.

[c_hawkbob]

Dumping our cornerstones on both offense and defense and you don't think we're in full rebuild mode? I'd say there is no question!

[tarlhawk]

Elite QB needed for SB aspirations but a decent QB coupled with upgrades on d-line and o-line via Free Agency/good draft positioning gives us a winning season chance...full rebuild teams don't usually climb out of their mire till 1-3 years of misery are accrued. Wagners loss will be a big hurt...most likely more than KJ Wright but if overall team/talent core improves...it was a painful/necessary "business" move.

[RiverDog]

We'll have to see what Pete does in the coming weeks in order to determine if we're in a rebuild or reload mode. If he goes out and brings in some 30+ year old free agents, such as Calais Campbell, trades some of our draft picks for Deshaun Watson, then we're likely in reload mode.

[NorthHawk]

It's looking more like a rebuild to me.
If we look back at what's happened the last month or so we see the following:

Defensive coaching changes.
Signing of Desai who's contract apparently stated that he would have significant influence and not be pushed into just running Pete's Defense
Trading of Wilson and cutting Wagner - the last links to the Super Bowl years.
And finally not yet re-signing any of our many FA's from last years team. It doesn't mean we won't, but if they were important to whatever plan they
have we probably would have signed a couple. I haven't even heard about negotiations with any of them yet.

So to me this looks like a rebuild with possibly a move to set the stage for Pete to move away from all of the responsibilities he has had the last
few years. Maybe he's going to just be the HC and not meddle with the Defense or Offense as much as he has while the Coordinators do the
bulk of the work. It wouldn't mean he doesn't have influence, but maybe he won't be so hands on.

[Aseahawkfan]

We'll have to see what Pete does in the coming weeks in order to determine if we're in a rebuild or reload mode. If he goes out and brings in some 30+ year old free agents, such as Calais Campbell, trades some of our draft picks for Deshaun Watson, then we're likely in reload mode.

The only way we're not in rebuild mode is if Pete trades for Watson. And that will be foul. Low character QB I would prefer not to have.

[RiverDog]

We'll have to see what Pete does in the coming weeks in order to determine if we're in a rebuild or reload mode. If he goes out and brings in some 30+ year old free agents, such as Calais Campbell, trades some of our draft picks for Deshaun Watson, then we're likely in reload mode.

The only way we're not in rebuild mode is if Pete trades for Watson. And that will be foul. Low character QB I would prefer not to have.

Which may happen, and even if it doesn't, there's other possible moves out there that could indicate that Pete isn't rebuilding.

[NorthHawk]

There are about 10 teams that might be considering Watson. He apparently wants to go to a team with a
good OL and chance to get to the playoffs. That might leave us out of the running if true.
However if the Browns sign him we might be able to get Baker Mayfield for a year or two until we can
draft a QB. I think he would be an improvement to Lock and Smith and his salary is about $18M.

[Aseahawkfan]

There are about 10 teams that might be considering Watson. He apparently wants to go to a team with a
good OL and chance to get to the playoffs. That might leave us out of the running if true.
However if the Browns sign him we might be able to get Baker Mayfield for a year or two until we can
draft a QB. I think he would be an improvement to Lock and Smith and his salary is about $18M.

I don't want Watson. Let the other teams have him. I hope we don't get him. Make the Seahawks harder to watch. I would lose respect for Pete Carroll and John Schneider. You can't claim you are a moral person while enabling a person like Watson to continue to thrive and be the face of your team.

[NorthHawk]

I’ve already lost respect for Carroll and Schneider because of how they’ve lost their
way in keeping the team competitive and restrained the Offense to the point that
other teams know what’s coming and their Pro Bowl QB wanted out.
It’s shameful how they’ve blown drafts and made boneheaded trades not to mention
squandering Cap space in FA.

[RiverDog]

I’ve already lost respect for Carroll and Schneider because of how they’ve lost their
way in keeping the team competitive and restrained the Offense to the point that
other teams know what’s coming and their Pro Bowl QB wanted out.
It’s shameful how they’ve blown drafts and made boneheaded trades not to mention
squandering Cap space in FA.

I think that's a little different subject than ASF is talking about. Pete and John are dancing with the Devil, jumping in bed with the sleaziest whore on the strip. That's a little different than screwing up their drafts and making bonehead trades.

[Aseahawkfan]

Exactly. I don't want to be that slimy franchise with the QB who sexually harasses and maybe assaults girls in massage parlor. That's just slimy. It wouldn't feel great.

We make fun of franchises like that. Then to become a franchise with a QB slimier than Ben R or the Cowboys? C'mon now. We don't want that.

[NorthHawk]

Wouldn’t bother me in the least.

[Old but Slow]

For me, it is the full rebuild or (shudder) continued mediocracy. We do not need a great QB for the next couple of years, and I do not like any of the choices this year in the draft. Next year is much better, for example take a YouTube look at Will Levis, QB, Kentucky, and he is not even in the top two of slingers.

Next year we have cap room (2d most?) and a slew of picks. This year we have 8 picks, and likely will add a couple, knowing Schneid. And our cap room is pretty good, as well. It is building time.

Watson? No, no, no. Not enough evidence to convict. A few thousand dollars spread around, and suddenly nobody remembers anything. Dirtbag. Strictly conjecture on my part, surely he wouldn't. Besides, it would not make us a big winner, anyway,

[Aseahawkfan]

Wouldn’t bother me in the least.

So a 40 million dollar cap hit, a slimy reputation that could end up with a long-term suspension at any point in time, and performance about on par with the guy you traded, and it would cost you a bundle of picks and you would be ok with this?

It's a stupid idea on many levels.

[obiken]

So a 40 million dollar cap hit, a slimy reputation that could end up with a long-term suspension at any point in time, and performance about on par with the guy you traded, and it would cost you a bundle of picks and you would be ok with this?

It's a stupid idea on many levels.

Wow man, don't mince words, what do you really think?? Seriously, I think it has too many moving parts to get all worked up about right now. You may think its a stupid idea but we are talking Petey here! Moreover, this is being talking about locally and nationally, so there must be a lot of "Dumbos" out there. AF, ask yourself what is more valuable, RW at his age, or DW at his age with his dirty suitcase? I think you can make a case either way. I am not for just floating for 2 years with ham and egger, or someone that is totally washed up like Kappernick. Sorry, I am too old for mediocrity, I am not into another Jon Kitna era. Either blow it up and start over, or get a really good QB and try to get it done now.

[RiverDog]

Wouldn’t bother me in the least.

It would bother me. I don't need a Pope to be my face of the franchise, but I don't want someone on the fbi's most wanted list, either. I like rooting for the guys in the white hats.

So a 40 million dollar cap hit, a slimy reputation that could end up with a long-term suspension at any point in time, and performance about on par with the guy you traded, and it would cost you a bundle of picks and you would be ok with this?

It's a stupid idea on many levels.

Even if you discount the morals factor, with 22 accusers filing civil charges, there's a risk that Watson will face a 4-6 game suspension. Worthlessburger was suspended for 6 games, later reduced to 4, on far less serious accusations.

I'd rather take my chances on Lock panning out or someone cheaper like Minshew or Mariota than make another expensive player for draft picks trade. They just never seem to work out.

[NorthHawk]

Let's look at all the factors in this trade.
The Texans want to get rid of Watson and he's not going to play for them again.
They paid him $10M last year for nothing and will have to pay him $35M this year for the same if they don't trade him.
He has a checkered history which devalues him to many franchises.
He might end up being suspended by the league for his conduct.
There will be a backlash from some fans if he's traded for.

They are apparently asking for 3 firsts but given the above they would probably settle for much less.
Any team trading for him would want to renegotiate his contract. I'm sure the new contract would include a morals clause and at that point the signing team
could add in a couple of voidable years to lessen the Cap hit. As well, there would be a clause for any missed time for suspension from the league.
He would still get the same amount of money, but the cap hit would be lessened by about 1/3. So it would be somewhere around $28M this year then drop
to around $24M roughly speaking - and if I've got the Cap figures straight.

So given the risks to the signing team, I would be willing to offer 1 first next year, 1 2nd, and a 3rd spread over 2 years - or maybe a player if someone is unhappy that Wilson is gone
and wants out. But something around that value considering they are becoming desperate to trade him.
Would other teams offer more? Perhaps but we are going to be drafting early for the next couple years regardless of if we sign Watson or not and that counts for something.

One question remains is whether our FO would want to have another QB with a not trade clause considering what they just went through with Wilson.

[RiverDog]

Let's look at all the factors in this trade.
The Texans want to get rid of Watson and he's not going to play for them again.
They paid him $10M last year for nothing and will have to pay him $35M this year for the same if they don't trade him.
He has a checkered history which devalues him to many franchises.
He might end up being suspended by the league for his conduct.
There will be a backlash from some fans if he's traded for.

They are apparently asking for 3 firsts but given the above they would probably settle for much less.
Any team trading for him would want to renegotiate his contract. I'm sure the new contract would include a morals clause and at that point the signing team
could add in a couple of voidable years to lessen the Cap hit. As well, there would be a clause for any missed time for suspension from the league.
He would still get the same amount of money, but the cap hit would be lessened by about 1/3. So it would be somewhere around $28M this year then drop
to around $24M roughly speaking - and if I've got the Cap figures straight.

So given the risks to the signing team, I would be willing to offer 1 first next year, 1 2nd, and a 3rd spread over 2 years - or maybe a player if someone is unhappy that Wilson is gone
and wants out. But something around that value considering they are becoming desperate to trade him.
Would other teams offer more? Perhaps but we are going to be drafting early for the next couple years regardless of if we sign Watson or not and that counts for something.

One question remains is whether our FO would want to have another QB with a not trade clause considering what they just went through with Wilson.

Another factor we haven't discussed is that Watson will have had at least 18 months without playing any contact football by the time he straps it up for his next team. Is that long of a layoff going to affect him? It certainly did with Michael Vick, who wasn't half the player he was when he returned from his prison sentence.

If Pete has another sub .500 season and misses the playoffs, there's going to be an even louder call for his head than there was this past year. Is he getting desperate, wanting to just get back to the mediocrity he had prior to this season? Perhaps he doesn't think he can afford to rebuild, which may explain why he's toying with the idea of spending a significant amount of the capital we got for Russell on yet another veteran player.

[Hawktawk]

No spin by Pete or John. This is full rebuild mode.

This I'm actually ok with. If Pete or John tried to sell me that trading Russ and doing this was some move to keep winning and I'd call rubbish.

But this is full rebuild mode. This is don't expect to compete for the next three or four years.

This is purge the 2nd Super Bowl loss curse off the team and bring in young, fresh players more likely to buy into Pete's philosphy.

If Pete is committed to this, then let's do this. Pete's always been better starting from scratch with no attachments. Back to the basics and the way he rebuilt last time.

I'm down for it. Rebuild me a defense Carroll. I've never loved offense though I know we need it. Rebuild me a mean, arrogant, vicious defense that can beat the other team up.

I don’t think PC or JS see it as a rebuild at all. They plan to win .

[tarlhawk]

Hoping that the Front Office uses the same formula to expand our roster as they did in 2010...patience and a 3 year plan. Do fans enjoy a three year wait? We knew the Seattle Kraken weren't going to the Stanley Cup but by setting lower expectations you get to enjoy moments where the team excites you in a game and you can see improvement which fosters hope for the future.

The Seahawks have provided fans with some very good memories of greatness...and many winning seasons which (outside of New England) is sometimes remarkable in this modern NFL era. Sitting at number 9 in this years draft is a golden opportunity...top 10 players are usually brimming with all-pro potential. As a team with many needs we can get a solid choice at edge/O-line interior and possibly a generational tackle...the good thing is we are in position to "catch" someone who slips just a few slots down from where he was expected to go.

The draft holds less value if you don't have the coaches to maximize their talents in the NFL...we have a new Secondary coach...a new offensive line coach...and a new Defensive Coordinator brain trust...these men are concentrated on defense...so a draft heavy with Defensive depth could play into our hands. I would like Linderbaum for a center with Phil Haynes at LG and Damien Lewis returned to RG (with Gabe Jackson as expensive guard back-up or trade value)...this would solidify our O-line interior to exploit our running game potential to support our QB placeholder. We need a one to two year QB1 who can take a solid receiving corps to winning seasons while perhaps missing the playoffs yet solidifying the team moving forwards...while waiting for QB2 to develop.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don’t think PC or JS see it as a rebuild at all. They plan to win .

I don't care what they plan to do. They been trying to win for years and failing since that second Super Bowl. So planning and doing don't work too well if you have an unrealistic view of what you need to do that and keep making mistakes in the draft and free agency as well as trading away draft capital for players you don't keep or don't perform.

I'm betting we end up winning nothing over the next 3 or 4 years and Pete and John eventually get fired and the Seahawks sold myself. I think Pete and John have lost their way and usually like old QBs or players, you don't find that way again because you no longer follow the philosophy that got you there. Pete and John haven't been following that philosophy for a while now.

I'm good putting my prediction out there. You can call me on it later on. I feel like Pete and John are done and this was the jump the shark moment that a few years down the line when they get let go and we have to start a real rebuild, people will remember this is the moment that did it.

This is definitely not the way you win. This is the way you rebuild. If Pete and John think this is the way you win, they are dumber than I thought.

[Aseahawkfan]

Wow man, don't mince words, what do you really think?? Seriously, I think it has too many moving parts to get all worked up about right now. You may think its a stupid idea but we are talking Petey here! Moreover, this is being talking about locally and nationally, so there must be a lot of "Dumbos" out there. AF, ask yourself what is more valuable, RW at his age, or DW at his age with his dirty suitcase? I think you can make a case either way. I am not for just floating for 2 years with ham and egger, or someone that is totally washed up like Kappernick. Sorry, I am too old for mediocrity, I am not into another Jon Kitna era. Either blow it up and start over, or get a really good QB and try to get it done now.

You ain't too old to want some QB who likes to go to massage parlor prostitutes in his off time as the face of your franchise just to take a shot at a Super Bowl. Say what you want about Seattle, we have always had good guy QBs whether Krieg or Hass or Russ. This would be a real departure and show Pete and John willing to overlook slimy behavior to what? Maybe win some games if they can draft better on defense? Not sure how they'll do that if they trade away the plethora of picks they picked up from Denver for Slimy Watson.

There's a point where winning isn't worth it to me. I won't keep much track of Seattle with slimy Watson at QB. I doubt they'll win a Super Bowl with him.

Pete and John just seem like they're all done and we're all just going to have to suffer through their final years to stay relevant until they both get let go for having lost their way as to how you build a team. When Pete and John first got here, they were all "Build through the draft. Find talent anywhere you can." Then they win a Super Bowl and they're all, "Let's play tough guy on contracts for our best players until they're unhappy and leave." Then they go from playing tough guy with our great players to ,"Let's trade for the shiny toys of other teams and offer them great contracts or let them go without getting much production from them." And somehow some people on this forum are ok giving them a pass doing this and blaming the Pro Bowl QB who who held the car together where Pete and John traded the quality parts away for replacements that weren't as good because they failed to draft the parts necessary to keep the car in good running condition.

It's unreal to me how you can watch what Pete and John have done with this team since the Second Super Bowl loss and think that was good roster management and drafting. And somehow a plan to get another QB with even bigger problems than the one you traded costing you a bunch of draft picks that could get suspended at any point in time if it is found he is visiting prostitutes and then have no draft picks to build the team around him. Seems stupid on top of stupid.

At this point if I don't see a return to what got Pete and John here when they first arrived, I don't expect much winning at all. I expect to languish a few years until Pete and John are fired, then start the rebuild in earnest with a new coaching staff and GM and possibly a new owner.