Offseason changes

[RiverDog]

Why is everyone on Sean Payton’s jock ? What’s his legacy ? He turned around a dead franchise with Drew Brees from a doormat to a usually competetive team . He got to one super bowl when Favre threw another horrible interception when in position for a GWF . Won in a nail biter featuring the ballsiest call of his career with the onsides at the half . But since then ? Some good teams , some bad teams . I guess at least they won some divisional games but had a couple brutal seasons and the coach missed a year for bounties . Bottom line his last Lombardi was the year before Carroll was hired , he’s never been back . He’s not at the top of my list .

I'm not sure who you are talking when you say "everyone", but it doesn't include me and I haven't seen very many posters in here express an interest in Payton as our next coach except that he could be a possible candidate.

If Payton were to become available and if it were to coincide with a Hawks opening, I wouldn't mind seeing him in the mix. You raise some good points about his resume, but the counter argument would be starting over in a different environment ala Andy Reid.

[Hawktawk]

Why is everyone on Sean Payton’s jock ? What’s his legacy ?

I'm not sure who you are talking when you say "everyone", but it doesn't include me and I haven't seen very many posters in here express an interest in Payton as our next coach except that he could be a possible candidate.

If Payton were to become available and if it were to coincide with a Hawks opening, I wouldn't mind seeing him in the mix. You raise some good points about his resume, but the counter argument would be starting over in a different environment ala Andy Reid.

Hey sorry RD didn’t mean to offend painting everyone with the same brush . I’d just seen a lot of enthusiasm on the forum . Would I trade the 2 right now ? Tough call. Common sense with the age difference and similar HC cachet . I find the Reid comparisons interesting . He was fired for who ? chip Kelley ? it’s been remarkable what he’s done . He was in the playoffs every year with Alex Smith . Now it’s a rocket . I suppose Payton could be that guy somewhere . I know if I was Jerry Jones I’d spare no expense because he makes sense there

[Aseahawkfan]

I'd still rather have Jim Harbaugh with a good GM.

[Hawktawk]

I'd still rather have Jim Harbaugh with a good GM.

Hmmm. Interesting . I find his personality annoying based on his time in SF but a good coach for sure . My guess with 9 jobs open he will have one if he wants it .

[RiverDog]

When Harbaugh was with the Niners, there were a number of people in here that compared him unfavorably to Pete Carroll, ragging on him because he inherited a team that had, through their low finishes prior to his arrival, stockpiled a lot of first round talent, that he didn't build the team from the ground up in the same way that Pete had with the Hawks, then left the team with an empty cupboard. Indeed, in his last year with the Niners, he went 8-8, missed the playoffs, with subsequent teams all finishing last in the division while going 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, and 4-12.

Now all of a sudden, he's a good coach? What's changed?

[Hawktawk]

When Harbaugh was with the Niners, there were a number of people in here that compared him unfavorably to Pete Carroll, ragging on him because he inherited a team that had, through their low finishes prior to his arrival, stockpiled a lot of first round talent, that he didn't build the team from the ground up in the same way that Pete had with the Hawks, then left the team with an empty cupboard. Indeed, in his last year with the Niners, he went 8-8, missed the playoffs, with subsequent teams all finishing last in the division while going 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, and 4-12.

Now all of a sudden, he's a good coach? What's changed?

I think it’s a league wide consensus he’s a good coach . We can’t blame him for teams he didn’t coach or knock him for players he inherited . It’s no different than Holmgren inheriting Ericsson’s team and winning the division before tearing it apart . Harbaughs mistake was benching the efficient accurate Smith and latching onto the shiny object known as Kap then trying to change his game . He got to a super bowl and nearly another but was stopped by Sherman . He wouldn’t be my first choice here in Seattle for sure but I’ll give him his due .

[c_hawkbob]

When Harbaugh was with the Niners, there were a number of people in here that compared him unfavorably to Pete Carroll, ragging on him because he inherited a team that had, through their low finishes prior to his arrival, stockpiled a lot of first round talent, that he didn't build the team from the ground up in the same way that Pete had with the Hawks, then left the team with an empty cupboard. Indeed, in his last year with the Niners, he went 8-8, missed the playoffs, with subsequent teams all finishing last in the division while going 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, and 4-12.

Now all of a sudden, he's a good coach? What's changed?

Nothing. I still want nothing to do with Hairball.

[Hawktawk]

Hairball lmfao yeah I agree I don’t want him either upon reflection . We need someone in the middle personality wise .

[mykc14]

No to Harbaugh!!

[RiverDog]

When Harbaugh was with the Niners, there were a number of people in here that compared him unfavorably to Pete Carroll, ragging on him because he inherited a team that had, through their low finishes prior to his arrival, stockpiled a lot of first round talent, that he didn't build the team from the ground up in the same way that Pete had with the Hawks, then left the team with an empty cupboard. Indeed, in his last year with the Niners, he went 8-8, missed the playoffs, with subsequent teams all finishing last in the division while going 5-11, 2-14, 6-10, and 4-12.

Now all of a sudden, he's a good coach? What's changed?

Nothing. I still want nothing to do with Hairball.

Me, either. But it would sure be fun to have him back in our division, though. Our rivalry with the Niners hasn't been the same since he left.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think the lunatic Harbaugh knows how to win. I'd give him a shot in Seattle. He took a Colin K. led team to the Super Bowl and almost won. I like the guy's intensity and I think he can build a winning team.

[Hawktawk]

I think the lunatic Harbaugh knows how to win. I'd give him a shot in Seattle. He took a Colin K. led team to the Super Bowl and almost won. I like the guy's intensity and I think he can build a winning team.

He’s a good coach . He just rubbed Seattle fans the wrong way . Imo he picked the wrong QB in the middle of 2012 when Smith got concussed . Harbaugh pulled a Belichick and benched him due to injury . Of course Kap came out running and they got to the big game . But they would have been blown out had the lights not gone out IMO. 2013 they were right there with us the length of Sherman’s fingertips and strength from back to back superbowls . After that we lived rent free in their heads till Harbaugh resigned. People forget Alex Smith was completing over 70% of his passes with very few mistakes and the highest QBR in the league when hurt . In the conference championship the year before Smith had played brilliantly , scored a rushing TD late and minus a bunch of special teams screw ups they would have beaten the Giants and gone to the SB in 2011. I agree with you Asea that he’s a good coach to get as much as he did out of the 2012 and 2013 teams . Kap was far more explosive but in terms of arm talent accuracy wise , reading the field and football intelligence Smith was good enough to win it all .

[RiverDog]

I think the lunatic Harbaugh knows how to win. I'd give him a shot in Seattle. He took a Colin K. led team to the Super Bowl and almost won. I like the guy's intensity and I think he can build a winning team.

Harbaugh coached in the NFL just 4 years. Granted, he took a team to the Super Bowl and two others deep into the playoffs, but he left the franchise in shambles when he left in a huff after an extended open warfare with the management. Plus he's been out of the pros for 7 years now and things might have changed since he left. He'd demand an arm and a leg as there's rumors that he's asking for north of $100M. I'd hate to hem ourselves in on a huge contract with a coach that has such a volatile personality. There's better options out there.

[Hawktawk]

Wow only 4 years . It seemed longer . I still can’t ding him for the teams after he quit . Didn’t they have Ron Jeremy coaching at one point ? I agree though there are better options not to mention Jodi is standing Pat . There are still 7 open jobs as 2 were filled today . If Harbaugh wants a job he will probably have one this year . Quinn has withdrawn his name from consideration for any HC job and announced he’s returning to Dallas which is odd .

[Aseahawkfan]

Harbaugh coached in the NFL just 4 years. Granted, he took a team to the Super Bowl and two others deep into the playoffs, but he left the franchise in shambles when he left in a huff after an extended open warfare with the management. Plus he's been out of the pros for 7 years now and things might have changed since he left. He'd demand an arm and a leg as there's rumors that he's asking for north of $100M. I'd hate to hem ourselves in on a huge contract with a coach that has such a volatile personality. There's better options out there.

Who are the better options? I don't much see them myself. You want a guy who has proven he can take the team to the big game and is an absolute fanatic about winning, you won't find many of the same mindset as Harbaugh. I prefer his brother if I had my choice, but I'd take Jim too. I feel like with the right GM and time, he's guaranteed to take the team to the Super Bowl and win.

[RiverDog]

Harbaugh coached in the NFL just 4 years. Granted, he took a team to the Super Bowl and two others deep into the playoffs, but he left the franchise in shambles when he left in a huff after an extended open warfare with the management. Plus he's been out of the pros for 7 years now and things might have changed since he left. He'd demand an arm and a leg as there's rumors that he's asking for north of $100M. I'd hate to hem ourselves in on a huge contract with a coach that has such a volatile personality. There's better options out there.

Who are the better options? I don't much see them myself. You want a guy who has proven he can take the team to the big game and is an absolute fanatic about winning, you won't find many of the same mindset as Harbaugh. I prefer his brother if I had my choice, but I'd take Jim too. I feel like with the right GM and time, he's guaranteed to take the team to the Super Bowl and win.

It's a moot point this season as we're not in the market anyway, but Eric Bienemy, Byron Leftwich, and Kellen Moore are all names that I'd give serious consideration to.

If you're going to hire Harbaugh, you'd better be damn confident that he'll produce results as you're going to be married to him and a $100 million contract that's going to make firing him nearly impossible. That's twice what we're paying Pete.

[NorthHawk]

Next year Sean Payton.
He's won a SB, had a better record than Seattle, and beat Tampa Bay with a 3rd string QB.
Give him the same power as Pete has and let him go. He would never get that much power from Dallas so it might work.

[Old but Slow]

Hiring coaches does not affect the salary cap. Might have to give up a draft pick. But cost? Huge amounts of money can be like pocket change to a billionaire. Consider how much a billion is. If you were to earn and keep $10,000 a day from day one, Anno Domini, to today, you would not have made a billion $.

Money should not be a serious bar to getting a head coach and/or GM.

[Hawktawk]

Hiring coaches does not affect the salary cap. Might have to give up a draft pick. But cost? Huge amounts of money can be like pocket change to a billionaire. Consider how much a billion is. If you were to earn and keep $10,000 a day from day one, Anno Domini, to today, you would not have made a billion $.

Money should not be a serious bar to getting a head coach and/or GM.

Yeah great point

[RiverDog]

Hiring coaches does not affect the salary cap. Might have to give up a draft pick. But cost? Huge amounts of money can be like pocket change to a billionaire. Consider how much a billion is. If you were to earn and keep $10,000 a day from day one, Anno Domini, to today, you would not have made a billion $.

Money should not be a serious bar to getting a head coach and/or GM.

It shouldn't, but if you sign an employee to a contract worth $100M, it's going to make you think twice about letting them go.

It would have been interesting to see if Pete would have gotten the axe had they owed him less money.

[Hawktawk]

I doubt the organization would have made a decision on Pete based on $. The down season they had cost them more in Merchandise and tickets then they pay Pete ..right or wrong they decided to walk it back and we shall see if Russ is onboard or not fairly soon .

[RiverDog]

I doubt the organization would have made a decision on Pete based on $. The down season they had cost them more in Merchandise and tickets then they pay Pete ..right or wrong they decided to walk it back and we shall see if Russ is onboard or not fairly soon .

Maybe, maybe not. But those executives at Vulcan, the folks that advise our owner, didn't get to where they are because they spend the company's money like a drunken sailor on a 3 day liberty. I'd bet my paycheck that financial consequences is something that they at least look at when they contemplate such decisions.

And certainly, if they ever signed a coach to a $100 million contract as what Harbaugh is rumored to be seeking, which would be far and away the richest coaching contract in the history of the game, it's going to be a huge factor if they ever had to part ways before the contract was up. Hell, the salary cap for the entire team for 2021 was $182M.

[TriCitySam]

Next year Sean Payton.
He's won a SB, had a better record than Seattle, and beat Tampa Bay with a 3rd string QB.
Give him the same power as Pete has and let him go. He would never get that much power from Dallas so it might work.

He went 7-9,7-9, 7-9 ‘14-16, with Brees. The naysayers here would be for tar and feathering Pete if he did that.

[Aseahawkfan]

He went 7-9,7-9, 7-9 ‘14-16, with Brees. The naysayers here would be for tar and feathering Pete if he did that.

Yep. Look at how fast some turned on Pete and Russell. It's like they never did anything good and like our division isn't the toughest in football right now with two teams from our division in the conference championship.

[mykc14]

Yep. Look at how fast some turned on Pete and Russell. It's like they never did anything good and like our division isn't the toughest in football right now with two teams from our division in the conference championship.

At what point would you consider questioning Pete as a coach?

[Hawktawk]

He went 7-9,7-9, 7-9 ‘14-16, with Brees.

Yep. Look at how fast some turned on Pete and Russell. It's like they never did anything good and like our division isn't the toughest in football right now with two teams from our division in the conference championship.

I’m one that says yeah real good coach . But my guess if PC was under 500 3 years in a row he’s gone already . It is fair to question Carroll and JS though when we’ve won one wild card game in now 6 seasons . I’m ok we walked it back another year . Schedule is favorable . Russ looked as good in the last 2 games as he had in over a season . The offense was prolific . So let’s see. I think it makes sense . But another down year it should be time . I’ve seen around the league the young coordinators are getting all these jobs anyway . No juice on Harbaugh .Quinn withdrew . No bite on Doug Pederson yet . I still think Payton is going to Dallas unless they hire Quinn .

[NorthHawk]

As a team, Seattle is just treading water. We aren't getting better, and the talent level has fallen greatly.
As well, Pete has shown he's only going to be here for a short time with his stop gap trades and trading away of draft picks.
So, what do we do? Do we let him run it into the ground when Wilson leaves then he abandons ship? Or do we get a new
Captain who's a proven winner who can work with Wilson?

Pete has said he wouldn't be here if Wilson wasn't. So when Russ's contract is up he will leave. If that's the case, Pete will
leave as well and the Seahawks will be a mess looking for a Franchise QB just like all of the other bottom dwelling teams.
That's the worst of all worlds, but is quite possible.
The other alternative is to get a coach who can win with Russ and design an Offense that Wilson can thrive in.

[RiverDog]

I’m one that says yeah real good coach . But my guess if PC was under 500 3 years in a row he’s gone already . It is fair to question Carroll and JS though when we’ve won one wild card game in now 6 seasons . I’m ok we walked it back another year . Schedule is favorable . Russ looked as good in the last 2 games as he had in over a season . The offense was prolific . So let’s see. I think it makes sense . But another down year it should be time . I’ve seen around the league the young coordinators are getting all these jobs anyway . No juice on Harbaugh .Quinn withdrew . No bite on Doug Pederson yet . I still think Payton is going to Dallas unless they hire Quinn .

Schedule is favorable? First off, it's impossible to handicap a schedule this far out. I don't even like making a prediction until the 4th or 5th week of the regular season.

Secondly, I'm to the point where I don't really care about our regular season record. I want to know what our chances are of are going to the Super Bowl. All that 12-4 record from last year did was piss me off after we got beetch slapped by the Rams in the playoffs. Fool's gold.

[Hawktawk]

I’m ok we walked it back another year . Schedule is favorable . Russ looked as good in the last 2 games as he had in over a season . The offense was prolific . So let’s see. I think it makes sense . But another down year it should be time . I’ve seen around the league the young coordinators are getting all these jobs anyway . No juice on Harbaugh .Quinn withdrew . No bite on Doug Pederson yet . I still think Payton is going to Dallas unless they hire Quinn .

Schedule is favorable? First off, it's impossible to handicap a schedule this far out. I don't even like making a prediction until the 4th or 5th week of the regular season.

Secondly, I'm to the point where I don't really care about our regular season record. I want to know what our chances are of are going to the Super Bowl. All that 12-4 record from last year did was piss me off after we got beetch slapped by the Rams in the playoffs. Fool's gold.

Oh I get that RD . Nobody not living under a rock knows you never know but with teams like the Jets and Giants on the schedule , likely no Brady in Tampa and definitely no Sean Payton in NO. Then there’s Carolina and Atlanta in that division.. we get 9 home games too. On paper . You know I agree on last year . The first half the offense had to win close games . Second half the defense had to . The playoff game was brutal and Russ was the worst player on the field . He was my biggest question coming into 21 after that loss and the comments about getting hit too much . My question was not answered this season , if anything it raised more questions . Still though RD I was swayed by the games down the stretch . 4-2 finish , definitely should have been 5-1 without Russels screw ups vs Chicago . Even the Rams game was competetive late . Vs Detroit they put up a 2012 vintage outburst on offense and followed it up with 38 even with Russ handing the other team 14 points . You know my views on Penney . Everyone understands the injury concern but if the guys on the team and healthy he’s not going to forget how to house it and it changes the offense . The biggest question remains Russ. Is he gonna be here and if so is he going to be the difference maker he’s always been . If he’s back , good Russ and we keep our key free agents we will have as good a chance next year as ever .

[Aseahawkfan]

Schedule is favorable? First off, it's impossible to handicap a schedule this far out. I don't even like making a prediction until the 4th or 5th week of the regular season.

Secondly, I'm to the point where I don't really care about our regular season record. I want to know what our chances are of are going to the Super Bowl. All that 12-4 record from last year did was piss me off after we got beetch slapped by the Rams in the playoffs. Fool's gold.

If Brady leaves and with Payton gone, NFC is even more wide open. We swept the 49ers twice this year. They are in the Championship game. Ben R is retired. Patriots are a shadow of what they once were without a quality QB. The league is wide open next year. There are no dominant teams. Anyone can win. We just need to have a very good offseason.

[obiken]

If Brady leaves and with Payton gone, NFC is even more wide open. We swept the 49ers twice this year. They are in the Championship game. Ben R is retired. Patriots are a shadow of what they once were without a quality QB. The league is wide open next year. There are no dominant teams. Anyone can win. We just need to have a very good offseason.

ASHF, I just dont see that. For me its who can beat us with a good game, and I see that being a boatload. Titans, Cards, Rams, Bengals, Chargers, Bills, Chiefs, Cowboys, the Giants when they get Russ, (IF you can believe Jason MacIntyre today) and Broncos if they get AR. Thats just MY condensed list.
I agree wins are hollow at this point, ask the Packers.

[RiverDog]

If Brady leaves and with Payton gone, NFC is even more wide open. We swept the 49ers twice this year. They are in the Championship game. Ben R is retired. Patriots are a shadow of what they once were without a quality QB. The league is wide open next year. There are no dominant teams. Anyone can win. We just need to have a very good offseason.

Which is one of the reasons why it's so hard to handicap a schedule this far out. How will our offseason pan out? Will Adams and Diggs make it all the way back from their injuries or will they leave something behind? Diggs is a free agent and has already been making noise that he expects a big payday. Will Carson return to form? Do we resign Penny? And what about aging veterans like Bobby Wagner and Duane Brown? And the biggest question mark of all, will Russell still be with us?

Unless something unexpected happens, we won't have a first round pick, so it's unlikely that we're going to get an impact player that can contribute immediately out of the draft, and we've never been a big player in free agency. Pete and John are going to have to pull a rabbit out of the hat if we are to improve the roster.

[NorthHawk]

The best part of this draft outside the top 5 or 10 players is in the 2nd to 4th where we have 4 picks.
There's some good talent expected to go around then but I don't have much faith that we will select
a player that will help us this year. Maybe I'm wrong and they will not do something stupid like they have
the last 7 years or thereabouts, but history isn't on our side.

[Old but Slow]

This draft has depth at OT and pass rushers. I will be hoping that those will make up our first 2 or 3 picks. A center would be good, but there is not much there in this class, maybe a late pick could work. The strength of this draft, as Northhawk said, is in those rounds where we have 4 picks.

My ideal would be an Offensive lineman, a pass rushing DE, a corner, and a stout defensive tackle. That would satisfy needs while focusing on the strong positions in the draft. I would also be comfortable with a second OL (at least one tackle) instead of the corner.

There is beef in this draft, brand it.

[Hawktawk]

Russell is due a 5 million roster bonus sometime in March . I don’t think money is an issue for Vulcan but still the analysis from the 710 crew is that if something is in the works there’s going to be action fairly soon . If the 5 mil gets paid it’s probably a sign he’s going to be here .

[c_hawkbob]

And it winds up being the one scenario nobody thought it would be. (If you say otherwise now I ain't buying it)

[tarlhawk]

Over the cap website lists a 26 million "dead money" hit with RW leaving the team...did we lose cap space or gain cap space with this trade?

[mykc14]

Over the cap website lists a 26 million "dead money" hit with RW leaving the team...did we lose cap space or gain cap space with this trade?

It depends on the contracts we took in. The difference between our dead money for RW and what his cap hit was is 11 mil. I know Fant and Lock are on rookie contracts so they are gonna cost around 4-6 million combined. Harris is probably around 8-10 cap hit and the first round pick is going to be around 4 million, so overall we probably have less cap space after this move by 5-9 million or so.

[obiken]

This thread is now obsolete after today!!

[NorthHawk]

According to PFT we are releasing Wags soon.
That should give us another 16M in Cap space.
Perhaps it’s a forerunner to being active early in Free Agency.