RiverDog wrote:Cooper Kupp had what was arguably the best season ever turned in by an NFL wide receiver and demonstrated the media's bias towards quarterbacks in their awarding of the league MVP. He became just the 4th receiver in league history and the first since 2005 to win receiving's triple crown by leading the league in receptions, receiving yardage, and touchdown receptions joining Steve Smith, Sterling Sharpe, and Jerry Rice. He became only the 2nd player in league history to catch TD passes in 4 consecutive playoff games. He caught two TD passes in the Super Bowl, including the game winner, after running for a first down on a critical 4th down earlier in the drive, winning the Super Bowl MVP. Kupp had made an apparent game winning catch a few plays earlier that was nullified by a penalty. This all occurred as the Rams other All Pro receiver, Odell Beckham, had left in the first half due to injury, allowing the Bengals to concentrate their efforts on Kupp. The Bengals knew that the Rams were going go to him, yet they still couldn't cover him.
It was a performance particularly satisfying for me to watch. Kupp hails from my alma mater, Eastern Washington University, and is from Yakima, a shade over an hour's drive from my house. I followed him during his college days and was well aware of who he was before he was drafted in the 3rd round by the Rams. The local news outlets have done countless features and specials on him prior to the Super Bowl and will no doubt do countless more in the days to come, this time being joined by the national media that has suddenly discovered him.
Kupp is not an extraordinarily athlete. He has good speed and quickness, but not top end speed that stretches defenses. At 6'2" and 208 lbs., he's not exactly an imposing physical specimen, but he blocks well and does whatever is asked of him. He has good elusiveness and makes a lot of YAC, but he's not in the same class as Tyrek Hill. But he is a superb route runner and has a 6th sense that allows him to know exactly where to run, when make his cut. And he has great hands, superior concentration. He was absolutely clutch for the Rams down the stretch and is much more deserving of the "Cool" moniker than the Bengals' celebrated QB.
Thinking of Seahawk receivers, he reminds me of Steve Largent, Bobby Engram, Doug Baldwin, and Tyler Lockett.
It brings up an interesting question: Do we really need a Megatron-like receiver in DK Metcalf in order to get back to the Super Bowl? Or can we do it with a less physically talented receiver in the same mold as Cooper Kupp?
Hawktawk wrote:Kupp is successful because people look at his measurables. hes got football speed. hes a football player. hes taking the top off so hes not slow. Beyond that we did win a Super bowl with Baldwin who i get tired of hearing people trash him as Russel's garbage receivers he won a super bowl with. I've moved towards your position on DK. Hes a head case. he and Russ are no longer on the same page and he has significant value.
govandals wrote:Nah, we certainly don't NEED a DK type WR to win it all. We won it all with some pedestrian fellas. Brady won SB's with a revolving door of not so athletic WRs, and the one SB he did have a DK type (Moss), he lost.
govandals wrote:Over on SDB, there was a poster (one of those I know someone, who knows someone, who works at the VMAC) who says the Seahawks have a 4yr/$100 mil offer on the table for DK and he is waiting to see how things shake out with RW before making a decision.
NorthHawk wrote:Kupp is successful because he is a superb tactician and he's surprisingly hard to tackle.
Combined with great hands it's a combination that is hard to stop.
But having said that, he does a lot better when he has someone who can go deep and open space for him as well he's fortunate that he's in a system that is creative enough
to really use him to his best. Not all systems or WR friendly, but the Rams is, so he should dominate for a number of years.
Hawktawk wrote:I don’t care what he ran at the combine . Marcus Allen ran 4.6. I heard a quote from a former receiver who said Kupp gets compared to guys like Edelman due to being white when in reality he is a Davante Adams type play maker . He had the triple crown , something only Rice did before . He didn’t do that catching dink and dunk balls . He appeared to get behind Tampa with his 4.7 speed
Hawktawk wrote:Kupp is successful because people look at his measurables. hes got football speed. hes a football player. hes taking the top off so hes not slow. Beyond that we did win a Super bowl with Baldwin who i get tired of hearing people trash him as Russel's garbage receivers he won a super bowl with. I've moved towards your position on DK. Hes a head case. he and Russ are no longer on the same page and he has significant value.
Aseahawkfan wrote:
Baldwin was an excellent receiver. Great pick up. But one guy who is a starter in the Super Bowl is not a great position to be in.
I would have even been completely fine with the terrible Super Bowl play call if Baldwin were running that route. Baldwin would have run the short route perfectly and made every effort to catch it. If the Patriot CD had intercepted the ball with Baldwin running the route, then great play. Not much can be done about it.
NorthHawk wrote:Largent wasn’t the fastest guy out there, either but he was fast enough. The similarities are they really understand
how they fit into their Offense along with what the Defenses are doing to try to stop them and how to counter those
attempts. Along with exceptional route running, speed isn’t as much a factor as it is with lesser disciplined WR’s.
Aseahawkfan wrote:You don't need a Metcalf to win a Super Bowl. It's hard to pick where your elite talent will come from. Metcalf is elite talent. But I'd definitely be ok trading him for some picks and/or a pass rusher or O-line. It is much easier to find competent receivers when you have a good QB than quality O-line and D-line.
RiverDog wrote:I'm glad you understand the point I'm making. Take a look at OBJ, undoubtedly one of the best receivers in the league. The Rams lost him in the first half yet they barely missed him. Collingsworth kept saying that not having OBJ was going to make Kupp's job harder, but he kept getting open and making catches. I'd rather spend that money on a LT or edge rusher.
I know some folks on here want to be some kind of elite offense. But I'd take an elite defense over an elite offense every single year.
Aseahawkfan wrote:
What are you talking about? No one trashes Baldwin I know of. But he was alone in the second Super Bowl. It was Baldwin along with Ricard Lockette and Chris something or other we signed a few weeks before the Super Bowl. Russ threw 2 TDs to a guy who didn't even make it in the NFL.
Baldwin was an excellent receiver. Great pick up. But one guy who is a starter in the Super Bowl is not a great position to be in.
I would have even been completely fine with the terrible Super Bowl play call if Baldwin were running that route. Baldwin would have run the short route perfectly and made every effort to catch it. If the Patriot CD had intercepted the ball with Baldwin running the route, then great play. Not much can be done about it.
obiken wrote:They may have been true 10 years ago ASHF, but not now. Almost all your playoff teams had coaches that were Offensive, not defensive Guru's. You just cannot build a good enough defense with the Cap to stop a PM, JA, or JB.
obiken wrote:They may have been true 10 years ago ASHF, but not now. Almost all your playoff teams had coaches that were Offensive, not defensive Guru's. You just cannot build a good enough defense with the Cap to stop a PM, JA, or JB.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Strong defense still wins championships. You can't have a crap offense to go with it, but if you have a top 10 offense and a top 5 defense, you'll have a great chance at a Super Bowl.
RiverDog wrote:The offense vs. defense debate is almost as old as the game itself, but let's just check and see how it played out this season.
Top 10 Offenses:
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Kansas City
LA Chargers
Buffalo
Baltimore
San Francisco
Arizona
LA Rams
Green Bay
Top 10 Defenses:
Buffalo
Carolina
San Francisco
New England
Cleveland
Chicago
New Orleans
Denver
Green Bay
Philadelphia
Two of the top 10 offenses didn't make the playoffs. 5 of the top 10 defenses didn't make the playoffs.
The Rams won the Super Bowl with a defense ranked 17th and an offense ranked 9th. Cincinnati got to the Super Bowl with an offense ranked 13th and a defense ranked 18th.
Not much of a conclusion that you can draw with that comparison, but it does bear out Obi if only slightly. My take is it depends on how different teams match up. The Rams front 4 was not a good matchup for the Bengal's offensive line, at least not from the Bengals' POV.
Aseahawkfan wrote:This year was a strange year. As wide open as it gets.
This isn't an offense versus defense debate. What I see over the years is that balanced teams win. I'd prefer a balance of top 5 defense and a top 10 offense versus the other way around. I think a strong defense with a run game travels better than a top offense with a passing focus. It's hard to build a really balanced team.
Your best shot at a dynasty and not a one off is a balanced team that is good on both sides of the ball. You want to compete every year and get to the playoffs, you need a franchise QB. Once you get that far, then it will come down to who gets hot at the right time.
If the NFL were like the NBA with 7 game playoffs, I'd still put my money on a top defense with a run game winning more often than a top passing offense. Since the NFL is one and done, anyone can have a great day for one game and get it done once you reach the Super Bowl.
This isn't an offense versus defense debate. What I see over the years is that balanced teams win. I'd prefer a balance of top 5 defense and a top 10 offense versus the other way around. I think a strong defense with a run game travels better than a top offense with a passing focus. It's hard to build a really balanced team.
Hawktawk wrote:It was interesting the 9ers are top 10 on both offense and defense . Explains their position at seasons end despite a mediocre QB. All types of teams have won a super bowl . Pedestrian QBs on dominant teams have won . Great offenses have carried mediocre defenses . I saw an Interesting stat today . Of the last 16 super bowl QBs who lost their first super bowl none ever got back . It’s so hard . Can we get to a super bowl with Russ ? Sure if we have a good defense and he’s sharp . The LOB got us to 48 and the LOB and special teams got us to 49. Russ had some big plays at the end but we had no business winning that game . Even in 13 we were a finger tip from losing to thr 9ers . And that only because Russ threw a 40 yard TD pass to Kearse on 4 th down . Burrow had a great run but if his D wasn’t balling he’s going down to Tennessee and certainly KC. Josh Allen was 13 seconds from maybe winding up where Cincy did . It’s so hard . You gotta be good and even more lucky , calls or non calls , injuries , weird bounces .
It’s really sunk in after another lousy season . You must savor a championship because it has to do with more than your roster .
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