Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

[RiverDog]

I would tend to think that the 2019 interview statement was a lie. If you are interviewing for a job, you don't conclude it with comments that put a perspective employer in a bad light. He was playing the interview game and that's how it's done.

I completely agree . Good luck telling an interviewer Elway was smelling like the dumpster outside the lucky break and so hung over he appeared to be retarded besides in that interview all he says of them was “ obviously they were there “ . He focuses his compliments on the Bowlen family and the organization. Besides it doesn’t matter . Elway has called it “defamatory “ . So bring it on . What was your itinerary the previous evening ? Did you consume alcohol and if so how much .

Lots of times raging alcoholics have a much different perception of their smell and appearance from someone who didn’t pound a dozen drinks the night before . One more time . If Flores is lying about any of it he’s done . If Elway says it defamed him sue then . I believe Flores . Kinda like all the women Trump was gonna sue or the time Peyton Manning threatened to sue Charlie Sly and Al Jazeera over his HGH use story . Don’t remember that lawsuit either . I do rememember the league said it was “ without merit “ then too .

How do you know that Elway had been drinking? Just because Flores said that he looked like he had?

I doubt seriously that either Elway or Ross will file a defamation of character lawsuit against Flores. They are extremely difficult to win and the league isn't going to want to air their dirty laundry in public and let a personal spat spill out into public, so there will be a lot of pressure for them to let it slide. They'd end up losing and all it would do would be to keep the issue on the front page.

[RiverDog]

By the way Goodell has weighed in . I don’t have link to direct comments but it sounds like he’s conceding that integrating Blacks into HC roles has been a failure . I see change coming out of this .

Yep, he sure did. It sounds like they're going to want to settle this thing out of court. Here's the link:

The NFL suddenly sees merit in Brian Flores’ lawsuit after all.

Last Tuesday, the league had callously dismissed Flores’ claims of racial discrimination in football’s hiring processes as “without merit.”

But on Saturday, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell sent a memo to the league’s 32 owners calling the league’s lack of head coaching diversity “unacceptable.”

Goodell went as far as saying “we understand the concerns expressed by Coach Flores and others this week,” and he promised to “reassess and modify our strategies to ensure that they are consistent with our values and longstanding commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion.”

https://news.yahoo.com/roger-goodell-do ... 00473.html

There's no admission of guilt that race played a role in Flores's not being hired or in his firing with the Dolphins, just that the league's lack of diversity is "unacceptable," but I agree with you that there'll be some changes.

[Hawktawk]

I never said I “know” Elway was drinking heavily the night before . I said if he sues we will find out . I believe Flores . I believe mr Flores accusation is true because why defame a hall of fame guy and GM with a lie. Why defame a billionaire owner with allegations of game fixing ? I don’t think he’s just angry black man lashing out . He seems very disciplined . I think he’s telling the truth . Too much to lose to lie about something like this .

[RiverDog]

I never said I “know” Elway was drinking heavily the night before . I said if he sues we will find out . I believe Flores . I believe mr Flores accusation is true because why defame a hall of fame guy and GM with a lie. Why defame a billionaire owner with allegations of game fixing ? I don’t think he’s just angry black man lashing out . He seems very disciplined . I think he’s telling the truth . Too much to lose to lie about something like this .

Elway is not going to sue. Flores and his attorney know that, which IMO is why he's been so bold.

Flores is a proven liar. The best you can say about him is that he'll only lie when it suits his purposes, as North Hawk believes he did.

[Hawktawk]

Huh? Being respectful in an interview with a reporter as a head coach without addressing negative aspects of an interview is a “proven liar “.

Wow you’re dug in brother . “ the best you can say of him is he will lie when it suits his purposes ?” Really ? That’s the best thing about Flores ?Check yourself you sound like me I know the feeling but Flores isn’t the bad guy here at all .

[RiverDog]

Huh? Being respectful in an interview with a reporter as a head coach without addressing negative aspects of an interview is a “proven liar “.

Respectful to a reporter? Oh, come on! Being respectful doesn't require him to lay on the bullchit like he did, certainly not in that situation.

Wow you’re dug in brother . “ the best you can say of him is he will lie when it suits his purposes ?” Really ? That’s the best thing about Flores ?Check yourself you sound like me I know the feeling but Flores isn’t the bad guy here at all .

I don't know any other way to read it. He was either being very untruthful in his interview with the reporter or very untruthful in his charges levied last week. You can't have it both ways.

Flores needs to do a lot of explaining in order for me to buy his story. That doesn't mean that I think that everything is hunky dory with the NFL owners or that racism doesn't exist. But I don't like the way Flores is going about it. There was no need for him to engage in the unprovoked mudslinging he's done with regard to Elway. Characterizing him as a stumbling drunk with no more evidence than "looking disheveled" isn't going to help him win his case.

And yea, I get it, you don't like Elway. I'm not necessarily a fan of his, either. But the man deserves to be treated with respect. He's not some murderer or pedophile and there's no evidence that he's a racist. How would you like it if someone implied that you are a drunken bigot?

[Hawktawk]

Elways own admission of possibly looking disheveled in the middle of a denial … mmmhh . Flores would be an abject fool to have told a reporter as an NFL HC “ meh” didn’t think much of Denver “ I don’t see anything in his statement that makes him a proven liar . He was skilled and political . Elway won’t always be in Denver . As I’ve said I believe Flores . Making these claims out of thin air would destroy his career and he’s seeking CHANGE, injunctive relief . Not millions . I think Elway showed up late with dragon breath and bloodshot eyes exactly as Flores said . I respect Elways accomplishments on the field and can’t Judge him for showing up to work hung over . But I wasn’t a team GM scheduled to meet with an applicant for work in a billion dollar corporation . He’s on the defense .

[RiverDog]

Elways own admission of possibly looking disheveled in the middle of a denial … mmmhh . Flores would be an abject fool to have told a reporter as an NFL HC “ meh” didn’t think much of Denver “ I don’t see anything in his statement that makes him a proven liar . He was skilled and political . Elway won’t always be in Denver . As I’ve said I believe Flores . Making these claims out of thin air would destroy his career and he’s seeking CHANGE, injunctive relief . Not millions . I think Elway showed up late with dragon breath and bloodshot eyes exactly as Flores said . I respect Elways accomplishments on the field and can’t Judge him for showing up to work hung over . But I wasn’t a team GM scheduled to meet with an applicant for work in a billion dollar corporation . He’s on the defense .

Elway DID NOT admit to looking disheveled. You are leaving out key words in his statement to fit your own narrative, in this case, the words "if" and "as he claimed". Here's exactly what Elway said:

If I appeared "disheveled", as he claimed, it was because we had flown in during the middle of the night -- immediately following another interview in Denver -- and were going on a few hours of sleep to meet the only window provided to us. I interviewed Brian in good faith, giving him the same consideration and opportunity as every other candidate for our head coaching position in 2019."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bron ... legations/

He said if he appeared disheveled as he claims. Go back and re-read the exact statement and revise your remarks accordingly. You're a history revisionist.

[Hawktawk]

“ if he thought we looked disheveled “ is an admission he may have looked disheveled in the middle of a denial that he was disheveled . I’m revising zero . I’ve said I believe Flores , I see no reasonable explanation for Flores to go after a HOF guy out of the blue , pick a name out of his hat . Oh I know I’ll level a false accusation against john Elway . Why RD? Angry black man syndrome ? It’s ridiculous . I’d be curious if the 3 interviews with Miami Denver and the Giants are his only ones . If not why pick these three ? Imo the allegations against Elway and the GM of the 5 Denver reps present at the meeting is the least serious charge of the 3. I do believe Flores however . I would guess 2 of the 5 were late and hungover , the 2 he mentions including Elway . It makes no sense for him to do this after 2 decades in the league . Especially to seek injunctive relief.

I think you should respect Flores . He’s very brave and getting plenty of support .

[RiverDog]

“ if he thought we looked disheveled “ is an admission he may have looked disheveled in the middle of a denial that he was disheveled .

Oh, BS!

No one knows how they appear to others as it's a subjective opinion. If I tell you that you look old, you cannot tell me that you don't because you don't have the same opinion on what 'old' looks like as I do. Furthermore, we don't constantly look at ourselves in the mirror. How many times have you walked out in a stiff breeze and had your hair blown out of place, unaware that it made you look "disheveled"? Elway could not have said "No, I wasn't disheveled" and made it sound credible. He had to acknowledge the possibility then give his explanation.

[RiverDog]

I think you should respect Flores . He’s very brave and getting plenty of support .

Which is why he doesn't need my support.

I don't completely disrespect Flores. He's a black man in a white man's world and I have no idea of the experiences that he's been through. However, I did lose a certain amount of respect for how he's gone about airing his grievances. I don't mind him filing a lawsuit even though he's doing so with almost no evidence. Perhaps he thinks it's the only way to dramatize what he honestly believes is a serious issue, that of racially discriminatory practices in the hiring and firing of head coaches in the NFL. That's not why I've lost respect for the man.

Where I've lost respect for him is when he started engaging in blatant character assassination to achieve his objective. He didn't have to say what he did about Elway in order to make his point.

[Hawktawk]

Which is why he doesn't need my support.

I don't completely disrespect Flores. He's a black man in a white man's world and I have no idea of the experiences that he's been through. However, I did lose a certain amount of respect for how he's gone about airing his grievances. I don't mind him filing a lawsuit even though he's doing so with almost no evidence. Perhaps he thinks it's the only way to dramatize what he honestly believes is a serious issue, that of racially discriminatory practices in the hiring and firing of head coaches in the NFL. That's not why I've lost respect for the man.

Where I've lost respect for him is when he started engaging in blatant character assassination to achieve his objective. He didn't have to say what he did about Elway in order to make his point.

If Elway showed up an hour late for an interview with Flores hung over as the CEO of an NFL franchise along with his GM he’s damaged his character . And Down’s syndrome inducing hungover isn’t ruffled hair . It’s eyes , smell of body and breath . It’s a message to Flores it was not too important . I know what disheveled hung over looks like when an employee etc walks in like that and I’m sure you do too. It’s a specific allegation easily misproven if false .

Not sure why you think Elway won’t sue . If I was him I’d wreck Flores if it’s a lie . Once more and I’m done . I see no logical explanation for Flores to throw it all away and tell a bunch of wild random lies after 2 decades in a respected organization , single out Elway for no reason ? I don’t hear an answer . And for me it’s just common sense unless he’s got CTE and is just losing his mind .

[tarlhawk]

Looking disheveled is not a form of disrespect whether one assumes the other was drunk and hungover or not. It definitely doesn't incriminate along the lines of discrimination any more than it would if Flores was white and showed up "disheveled" for an interview would be seen as discrimination against Elway if he were black. Flores was there for an interview and its his appearance that would have a bearing on the outcome...not the other way around. The fact that the interview lasted a few hours (as stated by Elway) seems it was fairly done.

[Hawktawk]

Looking disheveled is not a form of disrespect whether one assumes the other was drunk and hungover or not. It definitely doesn't incriminate along the lines of discrimination any more than it would if Flores was white and showed up "disheveled" for an interview would be seen as discrimination against Elway if he were black. Flores was there for an interview and its his appearance that would have a bearing on the outcome...not the other way around. The fact that the interview lasted a few hours (as stated by Elway) seems it was fairly done.

Hungover isn’t about appearance alone . It’s a look in the eyes and smell of rotten alcohol sweating out of the the body and on the breath as well . And he says 2 of the 5 Denver said attended were late and hung over . The most important 2 people . If you don’t believe him why did he make it up ? Still haven’t had the answer . Why select John Elway out of the blue to tell a malicious lie ? I’m not getting good answers . Maybe it proves nothing about discrimination but I believe it . Elway got a DUI and was convicted in a town he’s an icon so he probably was pretty smashed driving around or the cop was a hot pencil
.

On a related note I just read an editorial written by a lifelong Eiway fan who covers the Broncos . The jist of the article is that it’s time for the organization and the fans to move on from John Elway . Basically it said from 2015 on hes been an embarrassment as a chief operating officer and now this . I’m paraphrasing and it’s only one guys opinion but he takes the allegations seriously . I could use help figuring how to link articles from my phone but I think sometimes the local beat reporters know more behind the scenes stuff than national people . This guys ready to dump Elway .

[tarlhawk]

[quote="Hawktawk"]
If you don’t believe him why did he make it up ? Still haven’t had the answer . Why select John Elway out of the blue to tell a malicious lie ? I’m not getting good answers . Maybe it proves nothing about discrimination but I believe it .[quote]

I didn't question him as a LIAR (pretty strong accusation)...I questioned the overall bearing of Elway's appearance as representing disrespect/discrimination. It's a bit over the top to call it a malicious lie...its his own view/opinion of why Elway and another man showed up late while "looking disheveled". Was the interview genuine in offering opportunity? That will always be open to speculation. I try to overlook the devisiveness of putting everything into a racial profile...breaking down the Human Race into its various compositions of races is often divisive and seldom unifying. Highly responsible jobs should be based and trusted on personal merit/qualifications not forced societal efforts to "even" the playing field. As an example I found it a dismay for President Biden to pre-announce his intention to select a black woman as a US Supreme Court justice because that spectrum of society has been under represented. So instead of hiring the best qualified person irregardless of race/gender...he has gone on record to having a pre-selection bias thus defaulting to the "best qualified" race/gender for his serious role as appointing a Justice for life.

[Hawktawk]

Ok so Trump nominating a little Christian sect under qualified white woman after 40 million votes were cast and jamming her through after stiffing Garland was fine though right ? Wrong forum but by this point I’m fine with a black female . You’re taking about 9 jobs with thousands of qualified people in both parties . What any if it has to do with Flores exposing the underbelly of discrimination in the league is beyond me.

[RiverDog]

I didn't question him as a LIAR (pretty strong accusation)...I questioned the overall bearing of Elway's appearance as representing disrespect/discrimination. It's a bit over the top to call it a malicious lie...its his own view/opinion of why Elway and another man showed up late while "looking disheveled". Was the interview genuine in offering opportunity? That will always be open to speculation. I try to overlook the devisiveness of putting everything into a racial profile...breaking down the Human Race into its various compositions of races is often divisive and seldom unifying. Highly responsible jobs should be based and trusted on personal merit/qualifications not forced societal efforts to "even" the playing field. As an example I found it a dismay for President Biden to pre-announce his intention to select a black woman as a US Supreme Court justice because that spectrum of society has been under represented. So instead of hiring the best qualified person irregardless of race/gender...he has gone on record to having a pre-selection bias thus defaulting to the "best qualified" race/gender for his serious role as appointing a Justice for life.

Yeah, liar was probably a bit over the top for me to have called Flores. Disingenuous might be a more appropriate term.

I don't have a problem with the SCOTUS selection. Part of the function of a good Supreme Court is to give people confidence in our justice system, so aesthetics counts. People need to 'see' that the court represents them. Besides, for at least the last half century, they've always considered race, gender, and sex in their selection process.

But I don't agree that it's analogous to this situation. There are many, many more positions for NFL coaching jobs than there are SCOTUS appointments. I never have been comfortable with initiatives like Affirmative Action, quotas, incentives, or what ever you want call it, that favors one demographic group of candidates over another. You're not ending discrimination; you're displacing it from one group to another. I'm much more about opportunity, helping minority candidates in terms of training, financial assistance, access, et al so diversity is achieved more organically rather than artificially by creating an uneven playing field.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, liar was probably a bit over the top for me to have called Flores. Disingenuous might be a more appropriate term.

I don't have a problem with the SCOTUS selection. Part of the function of a good Supreme Court is to give people confidence in our justice system, so aesthetics counts. People need to 'see' that the court represents them. Besides, for at least the last half century, they've always considered race, gender, and sex in their selection process.

But I don't agree that it's analogous to this situation. There are many, many more positions for NFL coaching jobs than there are SCOTUS appointments. I never have been comfortable with initiatives like Affirmative Action, quotas, incentives, or what ever you want call it, that favors one demographic group of candidates over another. You're not ending discrimination; you're displacing it from one group to another. I'm much more about opportunity, helping minority candidates in terms of training, financial assistance, access, et al so diversity is achieved more organically rather than artificially by creating an uneven playing field.

I'm usually ok with those measures for a certain period of time. Never sure how long to keep it going, but long enough where people of particular groups gain hiring power and people in hiring positions become accustomed to assessing people based on individual characteristics versus preconceived ideas of race or ethnocentric norms. I always hear the "Best man for the job" rubbish and that is not how hiring works or rarely so. Usually it depends on the perception of a hiring person or person who measure a lot of different variables to decide to hire someone including how comfortable they are working with the person. If they are not comfortable working with people outside the majority, they won't hire someone based on something like race because they wouldn't feel comfortable working with them. If you have a group of people have been held out of commerce for an extended period of time due to legal racism or prejudice, then it is far more difficult for them to enter workplaces with free market hiring practices based on preconceived norms and comfort levels or to compete when they haven't been allowed to attend scholastic institutions where certain businesses recruit from. It was that way for a long time, so I believe such policies were necessary to break those normative hiring practices including the worst of the lot which is hiring based on who you know as in bringing in friends and family. How you gonna get a job when you are part of a group that don't know anyone to get you in the door? So I'm ok with taking measures to break these norms until enough people have entered into the workplace to create a new norm that no longer keeps people out on the basis of a previously prejudicial norm. I'm just not sure how long that takes.

I'm not sure how the NFL works. In the NFL black and white people have been working together for so long and so many black GMs and head coaches have done well, that I find it strange that this particular case has cropped up. Ozzy Newsome in Baltimore is one of the best GMs of the last 20 years. Tony Dungy and Mike Tomlin are both Super Bowl winning coaches. Todd Bowles is a great D-coordinator.

Team ownership could definitely use some diversification, but we know that's a good old boys network of rich dudes. So that will take some time given the amount of money it takes to buy a team.

So not sure what to make of it. Rooney Rule has good intent. But you have to follow the intent to make it work. That means you have to give a minority coach a real shot in the interview process. I'm not sure how you prove that one way or the other.

[RiverDog]

I'm usually ok with those measures for a certain period of time. Never sure how long to keep it going, but long enough where people of particular groups gain hiring power and people in hiring positions become accustomed to assessing people based on individual characteristics versus preconceived ideas of race or ethnocentric norms.

If they would have a sunset provision in them, say 10 or 20 years, then it might be easier for me to swallow. But one of the problems I have is how do you define a minority? My brother married an Ethiopian gal, so I have two nephews that are 1/2 black and 1/2 Caucasian. Are they considered to be black or white? And if you consider them black and they marry a white girl, then their offspring are 1/4 African-American. Same question. Are they black or white? Where do you draw the line?

Today's society is so intertwined with different races and countries of origin that you simply can't divide people into racial groups.

So not sure what to make of it. Rooney Rule has good intent. But you have to follow the intent to make it work. That means you have to give a minority coach a real shot in the interview process. I'm not sure how you prove that one way or the other.

IMO the Rooney Rule is almost certainly illegal. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 speaks specifically about employers categorizing employees by race as a means to determine hiring, firing, promotions, etc. The only reason it's been allowed to stand is because no one has challenged it, so it hasn't been tested in court. Besides, as demonstrated this past season, it's hugely ineffective. One black head coach, fewer than when the rule was implemented.

[Aseahawkfan]

If they would have a sunset provision in them, say 10 or 20 years, then it might be easier for me to swallow. But one of the problems I have is how do you define a minority? My brother married an Ethiopian gal, so I have two nephews that are 1/2 black and 1/2 Caucasian. Are they considered to be black or white? And if you consider them black and they marry a white girl, then their offspring are 1/4 African-American. Same question. Are they black or white? Where do you draw the line?

Today's society is so intertwined with different races and countries of origin that you simply can't divide people into racial groups.

I don't disagree with this. I'm mixed 'racially" myself as they define them. I've never looked at myself that way. I know society operates on these norms due to cultural teaching, but I don't think they are real in any biological way. Just a cultural racial hierarchy built a long time ago by power groups looking to maintain an evil institution and control. If there was a "white" or "black" race everyone thought of as the same, we wouldn't have had multiple world wars by nations who are supposedly part of the same race. Power groups tend to use whatever categorization is convenient to help them maintain power.

IMO the Rooney Rule is almost certainly illegal. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 speaks specifically about employers categorizing employees by race as a means to determine hiring, firing, promotions, etc. The only reason it's been allowed to stand is because no one has challenged it, so it hasn't been tested in court. Besides, as demonstrated this past season, it's hugely ineffective. One black head coach, fewer than when the rule was implemented.

It might be. It sure doesn't seem that effective at this point. I understand the intent. But the NFL seems at the point where it is pretty integrated. I think any year a coach of any background who is good can get a job.

About the only thing I'd like to see is some diversification of ownership. I think that will come in time. Jay-Z or someone of African descent that wealthy will buy a team at some point.

[RiverDog]

IMO the Rooney Rule is almost certainly illegal. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 speaks specifically about employers categorizing employees by race as a means to determine hiring, firing, promotions, etc. The only reason it's been allowed to stand is because no one has challenged it, so it hasn't been tested in court. Besides, as demonstrated this past season, it's hugely ineffective. One black head coach, fewer than when the rule was implemented.

It might be. It sure doesn't seem that effective at this point. I understand the intent. But the NFL seems at the point where it is pretty integrated. I think any year a coach of any background who is good can get a job.

About the only thing I'd like to see is some diversification of ownership. I think that will come in time. Jay-Z or someone of African descent that wealthy will buy a team at some point.

Given how conservative the Supreme Court is today, it's a near slam dunk that they'd rule it illegal if the case against the Rooney Rule ever made it that far. I think that the league knew very well that the likelihood of someone challenging it was very remote, that a white candidate was not going to sacrifice their career as it could take years to wind its way through the courts.

As far as diversity of ownership, that's going to take quite a while. The current cost of an NFL franchise is around $2.5B, which severely limits the candidates. The other problem is that they don't often get put up for sale. The last team to be sold was the Carolina Panthers in 2018, and that's only because Jerry Richardson was forced out. As was the case with the Seahawks, if the team owner dies, they usually stay in the family.

[Hawktawk]

I’ll probably start a fight but how about a little league sponsored affirmative action . 3 million extra on the salary cap first year of a black hires tenure . Or a supplemental mid round pick? My guess is guys like Flores would be insulted by it . They want a chance to compete straight up. Just thinking outside the box . Have a great day everyone ! Off to work .

[NorthHawk]

The incentive idea was floated a few years ago.
Apparently it didn't go very far.

[Hawktawk]

People who think the Rooney rule is illegal need to take into account that the Congress granted the league an anti trust exemption. It’s not just any business. Beyond that most owners are in public private partnerships to finance their stadiums etc . Normal rules don’t apply to a league akready granted an exemption to laws . Maybe I’m wrong . Correct me if so .

[tarlhawk]

Not sure of application to Rooney Rule but found this on anti-trust exemption:
Without the antitrust exemption, these actions would lead many to categorize the NFL as a monopoly, but with them, it is free to work around federal antitrust regulations to negotiate lucrative deals for the league and the 32 teams. The exemption itself is called the Sports Broadcasting Act.

In this way, what is the antitrust exemption?

The antitrust exemption essentially gives the league veto power over team relocation. NFL teams move frequently, settling in to new homes with bigger, richer fan bases. But baseball can block any franchise relocation—no team has moved for 30 years—preventing small-market owners from finding baseball-friendlier cities.

Similarly, is the NFL a legal monopoly? By protecting it from Sherman anti-trust violations, Congress established the NFL as a legal monopoly. Since then, it has been all but impossible for any other corporation to compete for the professional football dollar.

Keeping this in consideration, why is the NFL not a monopoly?

The NFL is sort of a monopoly but really through a superior product. The NFL doesn't work to prevent them from being on TV (at least any more) since there are no true competitors. Players can leave and go to Canadian Football League or arena leagues, and aren't prohibited from doing so.

What sports have antitrust exemption?

The most well-known antitrust exemption applicable to professional sports is the baseball exemption. Unlike all of the other major professional sports leagues, Major League Baseball has long enjoyed total immunity from antitrust law.

[NorthHawk]

People who think the Rooney rule is illegal need to take into account that the Congress granted the league an anti trust exemption. It’s not just any business. Beyond that most owners are in public private partnerships to finance their stadiums etc . Normal rules don’t apply to a league akready granted an exemption to laws . Maybe I’m wrong . Correct me if so .

I don't know if you are legally correct but for some reason that sticks in my mind as well so maybe it was stated somewhere and shared here.

[RiverDog]

People who think the Rooney rule is illegal need to take into account that the Congress granted the league an anti trust exemption. It’s not just any business. Beyond that most owners are in public private partnerships to finance their stadiums etc . Normal rules don’t apply to a league akready granted an exemption to laws . Maybe I’m wrong . Correct me if so .

The anti trust exemption doesn't give the league the right to violate employment laws. It would be like saying you can't file a workplace safety complaint under OSHA, or that your workers can't unionize because they have an anti trust exemption. If what you say is true, then why wouldn't the antitrust exemption prevent Flores from suing the league?

There are a lot of opinions on whether or not the Rooney law is legal. But my point is that it has not been and is likely never to be tested in court, so we'll never know.

[Hawktawk]

Rather bizarre statement from Flores Lawyers alleging the Smith hiring by Texans instead of their client was due to lawsuit , not interviews . If this is confirmed it’s not helpful to their case and really seems in poor taste to criticize the hiring of an experienced black coach . It getting bizarre by the day . I’ll keep my crow handy . It’s a pr blunder .

[RiverDog]

Rather bizarre statement from Flores Lawyers alleging the Smith hiring by Texans instead of their client was due to lawsuit , not interviews . If this is confirmed it’s not helpful to their case and really seems in poor taste to criticize the hiring of an experienced black coach . It getting bizarre by the day . I’ll keep my crow handy . It’s a pr blunder .

Here's the full statement:

His (Flores') lawyers issued the following statement on Monday evening:

“Mr. Flores is happy to hear that the Texans have hired a Black head coach, Lovie Smith, as Mr. Flores’ goal in bringing his case is to provide real opportunities for Black and minority candidates to be considered for coaching and executive positions within the NFL,” the statement reads. “However, we would be remiss not to mention that Mr. Flores was one of three finalists for the Texans’ head coach position and, after a great interview and mutual interest, it is obvious that the only reason Mr. Flores was not selected was his decision to stand up against racial inequality across the NFL.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... o-lawsuit/

This is a frigging croc. What did they expect? If I recall, Flores himself acknowledged the possibility that the lawsuit might cause him never to get a job again. Besides, Lovie Smith is supremely qualified, took a team to the Super Bowl, has a ton of experience, as HC, DC, position coach, and in the colleges, and was already coaching for the Texans, as the DC and associate HC. He has a much stronger resume than Flores. It is NOT obvious that Flores wasn't hired due to the lawsuit.

This statement by Flores' attorneys confirms my suspicion, that his counsel doesn't think he can win his case, nor do they necessarily believe in his cause. They are interested only for the publicity it gives them, helps them drum up business and demand higher fees than your garden variety lawyer. I can think of no other reason for this statement. Same thing about the statement about Elway's being "disheveled" and the paid to throw games allegations against the Dolphins. They have no physical evidence, and it does nothing to help them win their case. They're doing it to spice it up and make it sound as salacious as possible, not because they think it will help them win it.

They're not trying to win the case. They're just throwing chit on the wall, hoping that some of it might stick. Any decent attorney (if one exists) wouldn't touch any of those statements and accusations with a 10 foot pole.

[Hawktawk]

Then listening to ESPN this morning they say there’s some credence to the theory . Lovie was considered a long shot candidate with 2 failed tenures on his resume , older guy too. Still I agree Flores can’t say it’s worth losing his career over then criticize a black hiring . We’ve heard from lawyers . Flores needs to make some sort of statement . He did it to state his case . Can’t be crickets now .

[RiverDog]

Then listening to ESPN this morning they say there’s some credence to the theory . Lovie was considered a long shot candidate with 2 failed tenures on his resume , older guy too. Still I agree Flores can’t say it’s worth losing his career over then criticize a black hiring . We’ve heard from lawyers . Flores needs to make some sort of statement . He did it to state his case . Can’t be crickets now .

Maybe it was. Who knows. But it wasn't obvious. Besides, they've already acknowledged that this could happen, and there's not a damn thing they can do about it and they know it.

If he didn't get hired because of the lawsuit, it wasn't due to racism. The Texans have had several black head coaches. If Flores' lawsuit factored into the decision, it was due to the team wanting to avoid the publicity.

If they did hire Flores, the would be those that would be accusing them of hiring him BECAUSE of the lawsuit, not because he was the most qualified. It was a no win situation, as it will be for any team that interviews Flores for their HC position.

[NorthHawk]

David Culley got the raw deal here. He was given a real bad situation and made a pretty good show of it considering the dysfunction of
the team and losing their starting QB. Their record doesn't show much but they were competitive in a lot of games.
Lovie Smith went to the SB with a sub par QB, so it's odd that he got fired by the Bears even with an overall winning record (or close to it if I recall)
and hasn't become a HC in the NFL since. He's probably a good hire, but he's getting up there in age.

[RiverDog]

David Culley got the raw deal here. He was given a real bad situation and made a pretty good show of it considering the dysfunction of
the team and losing their starting QB. Their record doesn't show much but they were competitive in a lot of games.
Lovie Smith went to the SB with a sub par QB, so it's odd that he got fired by the Bears even with an overall winning record (or close to it if I recall)
and hasn't become a HC in the NFL since. He's probably a good hire, but he's getting up there in age.

I agree, but how does this relate to Flores? Why are his lawyers making a stink about the hire?

[NorthHawk]

You know as well as me that Lawyers always say things to promote their position or protect their clients. Whether what they say on any given topic
is true or not is irrelevant in many cases, but the spin is the thing from their perspective.
Whether it's just promoting their cause or grasping at straws or whatever, we can only hope to find out.

[RiverDog]

You know as well as me that Lawyers always say things to promote their position or protect their clients. Whether what they say on any given topic
is true or not is irrelevant in many cases, but the spin is the thing from their perspective.
Whether it's just promoting their cause or grasping at straws or whatever, we can only hope to find out.

Well, I can't see where issuing a statement complaining about the Texans hiring Lovie Smith either promotes their position or protects Brian Flores. Do you honestly think that the statement is going to help win the lawsuit or help Flores get a job?

[Hawktawk]

David Culley got the raw deal here. He was given a real bad situation and made a pretty good show of it considering the dysfunction of
the team and losing their starting QB. Their record doesn't show much but they were competitive in a lot of games.
Lovie Smith went to the SB with a sub par QB, so it's odd that he got fired by the Bears even with an overall winning record (or close to it if I recall)
and hasn't become a HC in the NFL since. He's probably a good hire, but he's getting up there in age.

Culley did get a raw deal considering the dumpster fire he inherited . I believe they knocked either Indy or the Chargers out of the playoffs and David Mills was the best rookie in the league by seasons end . John Clayton sided with Flores team as well saying Smiths hiring was a total surprise seeing how his tenure in Chicago and Tampa ended , also his age . Dude looks like Moses . Regardless I don’t think Flores is just making it all up but this is not a good angle to focus on.

[RiverDog]

Culley did get a raw deal considering the dumpster fire he inherited . I believe they knocked either Indy or the Chargers out of the playoffs and David Mills was the best rookie in the league by seasons end . John Clayton sided with Flores team as well saying Smiths hiring was a total surprise seeing how his tenure in Chicago and Tampa ended , also his age . Dude looks like Moses . Regardless I don’t think Flores is just making it all up but this is not a good angle to focus on.

I agree about Culley, but I don't think that a person can be that shocked that Lovie got hired. He was their DC and assistant HC last season, has a very long resume, and was a person they knew and were obviously comfortable with. It's very possible, perhaps even probable, that Lovie was the default choice should they not have liked any of the others they talked to. The selection of the HC is a momentous decision, arguably the most important single personnel decision that a franchise can make. They don't take it lightly.

And I agree with you about Flores, or rather his lawyers. I think it very possible that Flores is being set up, used by his legal team for their benefit vs. their client's, not unlike that scum bag lawyer for Stormy Daniels. As so often is the case in a lot of litigation, the only winners are the lawyers.

[Hawktawk]

Happy for Lovie. Maybe hes younger than he looks. He should shave the beard though. It makws him look ancient.
Him as a fallback makes sense for the Texans with the connections. He better not take out a second mortgage on his home there though. 4-13 is 1 and done for Black coaches there

I think there is a little more there there than stormy Daniels who is suing her high powered attorney Micheal Avennati for stealing from her now . There was something there too but when its a porn star and Trump kinda hard to defame anyone there

Not one to throw the baby out with the bath water. Nearly a third of the positions in the league were filled and we now have 2 black coaches. Eric Bienemy has interviewed 20 times and he calls the plays for the most prolific offense of the past few years. Theres something to it but the Texans thing is a total overreach and strategic blunder by Flores legal team that casts doubt on what is a legitimate issue in the league.