Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

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Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:15 pm

Quite an incredible tale if true, Ross offering him money to lose games and get Tua, trying to involve him in a tampering scheme involving Tom Brady and shunning him from then on when he left the meeting. He claims he interviewed for the Giants job 4 days AFTER being mistakenly congratulated by Belichick who was trying to contact Daboll who had already been decided on. He has the text. Claimed John Elway showed up still half drunk for an interview an hour late in 2019, clearly using him to satisfy the Rooney rule without taking him the least bit seriously.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/brian-flore ... 56727.html

If this stuff is true its bad. I seem to recall a conversation about black' Monday becoming 2 less blacks Monday this year without a great rationale to fire either.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:44 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Quite an incredible tale if true, Ross offering him money to lose games and get Tua, trying to involve him in a tampering scheme involving Tom Brady and shunning him from then on when he left the meeting. He claims he interviewed for the Giants job 4 days AFTER being mistakenly congratulated by Belichick who was trying to contact Daboll who had already been decided on. He has the text. Claimed John Elway showed up still half drunk for an interview an hour late in 2019, clearly using him to satisfy the Rooney rule without taking him the least bit seriously.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/brian-flore ... 56727.html

If this stuff is true its bad. I seem to recall a conversation about black' Monday becoming 2 less blacks Monday this year without a great rationale to fire either.


Just got through reading it. The allegations are so serious and so outrageous that my instinct is to say that it can't possibly be true, at least not in its entirety. Intentionally throwing games ought to earn one a lifetime ban from the sport just like baseball's 1919 Chicago White Sox. If Flores has substantial evidence to support his claims, it will make the Jon Gruden scandal seem like spitting on the sidewalk.

Discrimination charges are extremely difficult to prove as they're seldom committed to writing or oral recordings as they were with Gruden, and, of course, the burden of proof is on the accuser. For Flores sake, I hope he has the evidence to back up his charges. If he doesn't, he's coached his last game in the NFL.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:39 pm

I think he’s done anyway and he knows it . I agree some of this is crazy , hard to believe but does he have proof? If the text is correct BB accidentally texted Flores instead of Daboll and congratulated him on the giants job 3 days before his scheduled interview which he attended anyway. It doesn’t necessarily prove racism but it’s a clear violation of the Rooney rule to say “hey you’re our guy just give us a few days to interview the black guy”. How can anyone say it’s not how that was ? But he’s throwing his career away . What’s his motivation ? He’s the coach equivalent of Kap, radioactive .
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby trents » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:52 pm

River is right on. "He said, she said" without any email messages or a paper trail or eye witnesses is not going to cut it in court. I believe Flores will blow a lot of money in pursuing this suit and come out with nothing to show for it. On the other hand, with today's hyper sensitive racial climate, Flores might have a chance. Not saying at all that he doesn't have justification for the suite. We may never know that one way or the other is what I'm saying. Attitudes are difficult to prove in court.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:37 pm

The charges are true, the NFL has been heading toward this kind of crash and burn for a long time. One Black coach in the NFL, come on. I would have deep sixed PC in a heartbeat for a guy like Flores. Eric Bienemy, is long overdue for a job, and there are others. On the horizon is a class action lawsuit that will rock their world. I think they settle out of court on this one, and give him 10 million tax free dollars, pay attorneys fees and like River said, he will never coach again. Course I am one who thinks we are headed for a 2nd Civil war on race in this county. The place, Fulton County, Ga, the time, Nov 5, 2024, the reason, voter suppression in the South.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby trents » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:02 pm

obiken wrote:The charges are true, the NFL has been heading toward this kind of crash and burn for a long time. One Black coach in the NFL, come on. I would have deep sixed PC in a heartbeat for a guy like Flores. Eric Bienemy, is long overdue for a job, and there are others. On the horizon is a class action lawsuit that will rock their world. I think they settle out of court on this one, and give him 10 million tax free dollars, pay attorneys fees and like River said, he will never coach again. Course I am one who thinks we are headed for a 2nd Civil war on race in this county. The place, Fulton County, Ga, the time, Nov 5, 2024, the reason, voter suppression in the South.


Yeah, they've been trying to keep illegals from voting in Georgia.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:20 am

Flores apparently interviewed for the Saints job yesterday.

Here's one of the accusations that Flores made about the Broncos, one of the 3 teams named in his lawsuit:

Finally, Flores claims that then-GM John Elway and team president Joe Ellis showed up an hour late to his head coaching interview with the Denver Broncos back in 2019. At the meeting, the two executives allegedly looked “completely disheveled” from what Flores thought was a long night of “heavy drinking.”

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/br ... -job-today

It would appear that at least one of Flores allegations might have some truth to it. If this information is correct, it would appear that the Giants might have conducted a phony interview merely to meet the requirements set forth in the Rooney Rule of having to interview minority candidates for their HC openings:

“Giants named Brian Daboll as their new head coach Friday. Now he was offered the job earlier in the week but had to wait for the Giants to complete the formal interviewing process,” Esiason said in his update on Monday (1:30 mark).

If Esiason’s information is correct, that makes two people (him and Belichick) who apparently knew the Giants were making Daboll their head coach despite the team still having more interviews to conduct.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bo ... d=msedgntp
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:22 am

This is going to be an interesting investigation.
I would expect Flores to be blackballed like Kaepernick was, but maybe things will change for the better for minority coaches.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:41 am

NorthHawk wrote:This is going to be an interesting investigation. I would expect Flores to be blackballed like Kaepernick was, but maybe things will change for the better for minority coaches.


Yes, even Flores admits that he's likely coached his last game in the NFL. But you never know. It only takes one team to hire him. If they had an opening, which they don't, I could certainly see the Washington "Commanders" hiring him if only to show that they're trying to clean up their image after the Gruden debacle and sexual harassment allegations.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:07 am

Yeah, they've been trying to keep illegals from voting in Georgia.


I know this is not a Political site, but Trents, that is a load of crap! Fulton County Ga is Black period, Its ATLANTA, they are trying to suppress the Black vote there period. There is even talk by Neo-Cons of forcing people to carry a card that they will have to buy, to exercise their RIGHT to vote.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby trents » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:11 am

There might also be college coaching opportunities for Flores next season. The good ones have already been filled or this year.

But don't forget that there were statements made by Miami team officials around the time of Fores firing that he had not been very cooperative with administration and was not a "team" guy. As is usually the case, there are likely two sides to this story.

There are also two sides to the alleged head coach hiring discrimination issue in the NFL. People are basing the disparity between percentages of black head coaches vs. percentages of black players in the NFL. And I get that logic. But why are there so many more black players than white players? I realize that there have been doctorate level studies done on that question and lots of theories out there. What if the percentage of black players to white players reflected more closely the racial mix of the general population? If it did, then the percentage of black head coaches in the NFL that we have seen in recent history would be more in line.

And another question: What is the percentage of black assistant coaches on NFL teams? Seems to me there are quite a few of them. Maybe there is a balancing out there.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:32 am

But don't forget that there were statements made by Miami team officials around the time of Fores firing that he had not been very cooperative with administration and was not a "team" guy. As is usually the case, there are likely two sides to this story.


I'm interpreting that to mean (within the context of Flores version) that he wouldn't go along with tanking like Ross wanted.
It's easy to paint someone as not being a team player for not doing what the boss says even if it's not kosher or illegal.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:08 pm

What I don't get is how the supposed order given to Flores to throw games has anything to do with racism. I agree that, if it's true, Flores would have a solid claim of an unjust termination as that's his W/L record as much as it is the teams as it's commonly used in coaches' evaluations, but not based on his race.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:09 pm

But don't forget that there were statements made by Miami team officials around the time of Fores firing that he had not been very cooperative with administration and was not a "team" guy. As is usually the case, there are likely two sides to this story.

NorthHawk wrote:I'm interpreting that to mean (within the context of Flores version) that he wouldn't go along with tanking like Ross wanted.
It's easy to paint someone as not being a team player for not doing what the boss says even if it's not kosher or illegal.
Exactly, that seems to bear out Flores' version if anything.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:10 pm

RiverDog wrote:What I don't get is how the supposed order given to Flores to throw games has anything to do with racism. I agree that, if it's true, Flores would have a solid claim of an unjust termination, but not based on his race.

It doesn't, but it doesn't have to, it can just be an additional unsavory item.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:34 pm

Here's a thought:

Suppose Flores can prove that the Giants did not follow the Rooney Rule that requires teams to consider minority candidates, something that's not out of the realm of possibility as there is some evidence, ie Belichick's text and Boomer Esiason's report.

If Flores is successful in proving that the Rooney Rule was not followed, could the Giants then turn around and argue that the rule is illegal and that they are not obligated to follow it? After all, there is some very specific, applicable language in the Civil Rights law of 1964 that prohibits discrimination in the workplace:

UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES
SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]

(a) Employer practices

It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -

(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or

(2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.


https://www.eeoc.gov/statutes/title-vii ... s-act-1964

Classifying applicants by race seems to me to be exactly what the league is doing when they insist that minority applicants be considered, and once you accept that as a condition, you start heading down a slippery slope: What is the definition of a minority? Patrick Mahomes is half black and half white. If he were a coaching candidate, would he be considered a minority? Where do you draw the line?
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby trents » Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:46 pm

I note that the one black head coach remaining in the NFL is in Pittsburgh, Rooney rule city of origin.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:20 pm

Let’s don’t forget the league has an anti trust exemption . Not just any employer . Also interesting today I heard a lawyer saying that Flores is primarily seeking injuctjive relief . Ie change rather than money . The more I learn the more respect I have for coach Flores . He seems like a principled by the book guy . I guess telling a black guy who is in his first year as an NFL HC that he needs to lose games and insulting him with bribes doesn’t prove racism but….hey black coach please lose some games . It will look good on your resume. I think the ross angle is the most damaging followed closely by what was clearly a sham interview by the giants . Not sure what the Denver thing proves other than their front office is a bunch of raging alcoholics .
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:51 pm

It doesn't, but it doesn't have to, it can just be an additional unsavory item.


It proves that the owner is an 80 year old wack job, and Flores integrity could not be bought for 1.7 million. I think it could end up being the bigger story CB, River.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:59 pm

It doesn't, but it doesn't have to, it can just be an additional unsavory item.

obiken wrote:It proves that the owner is an 80 year old wack job, and Flores integrity could not be bought for 1.7 million. I think it could end up being the bigger story CB, River.

Sure could!

Especially with the NFL cozying up with gambling all of the sudden, the integrity of the game is more important than ever.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:40 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Especially with the NFL cozying up with gambling all of the sudden, the integrity of the game is more important than ever.



It's a very serious charge that if proven to be true, could result in prison sentences:

Stephen Ross, Jimmy Haslam could be prosecuted for violating the Sports Bribery Act

While appearing on Dan Abrams’s SiriusXM POTUS 124 show earlier in the hour, we discussed the possibility of a prosecutor convening a grand jury on the specific question of whether Dolphins owner Stephen Ross or Browns owner Jimmy Haslam bribed coaches and/or others to deliberately lose football games. Flores has accused Ross of offering $100,000 per loss; former Browns coach Hue Jackson has suggested that Haslam did something similar.

The Sports Bribery Act criminalizes such conduct. Under 18 U.S.C. § 224, “Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commence to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge of the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contests, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”

Based on the language of the statute, it doesn’t matter whether the offer is accepted. Liability arises if the person “carries into effect” the scheme or “attempts to carry into effect” the bribe. The mere offer of $100,000 to Flores, without more, would constitute a violation by Ross.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... ibery-act/
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:47 pm

Especially with the NFL cozying up with gambling all of the sudden, the integrity of the game is more important than ever.


Right!! I never thought of that!!
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:57 pm

RiverDog wrote:

It's a very serious charge that if proven to be true, could result in prison sentences:

Stephen Ross, Jimmy Haslam could be prosecuted for violating the Sports Bribery Act

While appearing on Dan Abrams’s SiriusXM POTUS 124 show earlier in the hour, we discussed the possibility of a prosecutor convening a grand jury on the specific question of whether Dolphins owner Stephen Ross or Browns owner Jimmy Haslam bribed coaches and/or others to deliberately lose football games. Flores has accused Ross of offering $100,000 per loss; former Browns coach Hue Jackson has suggested that Haslam did something similar.

The Sports Bribery Act criminalizes such conduct. Under 18 U.S.C. § 224, “Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commence to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge of the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contests, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”

Based on the language of the statute, it doesn’t matter whether the offer is accepted. Liability arises if the person “carries into effect” the scheme or “attempts to carry into effect” the bribe. The mere offer of $100,000 to Flores, without more, would constitute a violation by Ross.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... ibery-act/

It’s a mess . We can speculate on what is fair it is but when you see this evidence it’s hard to believe it’s a coincidence in this league.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby trents » Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:15 pm

This saga has now spread outside of the Dolphins organization. Now, former black head coach of the Browns, Hugh Jackson, has stated that ownership offered him money to lose games.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:32 am

trents wrote:This saga has now spread outside of the Dolphins organization. Now, former black head coach of the Browns, Hugh Jackson, has stated that ownership offered him money to lose games.


Yupper, this thing is going to get Ugwy on soo many levels!
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:24 am

You folks need to keep your shirts on. So far, we have seen no evidence other than personal accusations from two former coaches that they were offered bribes to influence the results of a football game(s). Other than circumstantial evidence, we have seen very little evidence that race was a factor in the hiring/firing of any coach or other employee.

Before the case even gets to a trial, there has to be evidence presented to a judge that he/she deems credible enough to warrant a trial. It's called a pre trial hearing, and it's the reason why none of the 2020 election fraud claims ever made it to trial.

Flores' lawyer, himself having been accused of a rather unsavory scandal, claims that he does have evidence:

In the 58-page lawsuit, Flores said Ross offered him $100,000 per loss in 2019 as Ross hoped the Dolphins would lose enough games to land the No. 1 pick in the 2020 NFL Draft. On Wednesday, one of Flores’ lawyers said there’s corroborating evidence for Flores’ claims, beyond what is detailed in the lawsuit. “We’re going to prove that if this case continues to go,” Douglas Wigdor told CNN. “There’s going to be corroborating evidence, there’s going to be other witnesses, there’s going to be emails and texts. We’re confident in that allegation. As Brian said, you don’t just make that up.”

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/ ... rylink=cpy

I'd like to hear what these other witnesses say, what is in the texts and who they were between, and what the emails reveal, before I jump the gun and come to any conclusions.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:57 am

I wouldn't call it evidence, but here's some more information on the bribery charge:

NFL Network reporter Cameron Wolfe, who previously covered the Dolphins for ESPN, said this afternoon he had spoken to a witness who said he heard Ross making the offer of $100,000 for every loss in 2019.

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/mi ... es-lawsuit
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:54 am

River, you have two NFL coaches saying they were bribed to throw games. Sorry, that's evidence, moreover, the other other black coach says he has the evidence to back up his backing up of Flores. Where it gets more complex is these black coaches, forget the whole integrity thing, usually only get one shot to fail.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:40 am

obiken wrote:River, you have two NFL coaches saying they were bribed to throw games. Sorry, that's evidence, moreover, the other other black coach says he has the evidence to back up his backing up of Flores. Where it gets more complex is these black coaches, forget the whole integrity thing, usually only get one shot to fail.


Obi, I don't care if there are a dozen coaches making the same accusation about their owners, it's not evidence that a judge could use to send a case to trial. They're going to have to produce some type of hard, physical evidence, such as a written offer or instruction on a text or email that's proven to have come from the owner or other individual representing the team, an eyewitness that can swear under oath that they heard them make the offer/instruction, etc.

Ask yourself why, despite the hundreds, if not thousands, of accusations of foul play in the 2020 election, that not a single one of those accusations ever got to trial. It's because there was no evidence.

I'm not saying that there wasn't a bribe or that Flores wasn't terminated because he is black. To the contrary, it's beginning to smell really bad and I suspect that they might be onto something. Where there's smoke, there's usually a fire. All I am saying is that in order to be successful in a court of law, he's going to have to produce some type of evidence besides his claim.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:44 am

When I see a coach , now 2 making very similar accusations I believe them . Their stories in a way are almost too fantastic to be manufactured out of whole cloth . Surely the men understand their careers are in trouble , possibly at the assistant level . I put Culley in the same category , not that he’s said a word but such a raw deal . It’s ridiculous to say there’s no problem in a league where losing white coaches get multiple seasons and he didn’t . 1 black HC in a league with 70% black players . The most ever was 8 about 30% and that’s been a while ago . My guess is that Flores had seen and heard enough when the Belichick text hit his phone but the Giants held the interview 3 days later . He doesn’t strike me as a man who accepts being disrespected .
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:53 am

Discussing the tanking issue, one has to wonder why they would make this up?
There has to be something to it for more than one coach to accuse their team of tanking and thus probably end their careers along with Flores.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:53 am

A dozen Riv, really? Eye witness accounts are evidence once they become corroborated, and more accounts are more corroboration/more evidence. Once 'he said - he said" becomes "he said - they said" a judge will take notice. Especially in a civil matter where a preponderance of evidence is the standard as opposed to a criminal case's beyond reasonable doubt.

Your first instinct is to always pooh pooh things until more evidence comes out and thats reasonable, but sometimes it's also turning a blind eye.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:03 am

RD can be on my jury any day. Most level headed person I’ve encountered on social media .

I’m so bipolar I asked to be and was excused from serving on a jury . I’m spirit led, sixth sense . I make up my mind based on my gut . When it comes to who is right and wrong I’m seldom wrong . I believe these coaches . Just doing the math it’s clear the league or rather the 30 non black owners have a racism problem somewhere . All 5 of the hires so far have been young white men with no HC experience . It’s a problem .
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:18 am

Just saw a report that while the NFL calls Flores allegations of discrimination baseless they are in fact opening an investigation into the bribes to tank games .
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:31 am

Hawktawk wrote:When I see a coach , now 2 making very similar accusations I believe them . Their stories in a way are almost too fantastic to be manufactured out of whole cloth . Surely the men understand their careers are in trouble , possibly at the assistant level . I put Culley in the same category , not that he’s said a word but such a raw deal . It’s ridiculous to say there’s no problem in a league where losing white coaches get multiple seasons and he didn’t . 1 black HC in a league with 70% black players . The most ever was 8 about 30% and that’s been a while ago . My guess is that Flores had seen and heard enough when the Belichick text hit his phone but the Giants held the interview 3 days later . He doesn’t strike me as a man who accepts being disrespected .


Hawktalk, if I'm ever accused of something that I didn't do, I would not want you on my jury.

I neither believe nor disbelieve Flores' claim. It's entirely possible that this is nothing more than sour grapes, a disgruntled employee looking for a reason to rationalize his failures. It's happened before. It's also possible that race did have something to do with his termination, or at the very least, that the Rooney Rule was violated, that teams simply went through the motions in order to satisfy it. It might even be likely that there was a bribe offered to lose football games as there was a motive for an owner to do so.

The fact that 70% of the league is black is irrelevant to the hiring of NFL head coaches. Playing experience in the NFL is not a requirement to be a coach in the league, neither in writing nor in practice. There are a number of head coaches that have never played in the NFL, the most noteworthy being Bill Belichick. Pete Carroll never played in the NFL, nor did Mike McCarthy, Sean McVay, Sean McDermott, or Kyle Shanahan. And going back into history, Vince Lombardi never played in the NFL. The pool of head coaching candidates is not limited to current or former players, so the percentage of black players is not relevant. That doesn't mean that the topic itself is irrelevant or that it's not a worthy objective to achieve more diversity in the head coaching ranks, only that it is not evidence that can be used at a trial.

I've been a party to very similar discussions at my former place of work, why when our work force is well over 50% minorities that less than 10% were in management. It's not an unusual situation unique to the NFL.

If Flores could get a fair number of assistant coaches that have been passed over for head coaching position, guys like Eric Bienemy, Byron Leftwich, etc, to sign on to a class action suit, then they might have a better chance of succeeding in court if they could establish a pattern of passing over qualified minority coaches. But it's incredibly difficult to prove on an individual basis that you were discriminated against.
Last edited by RiverDog on Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:06 am

If Flores could get a fair number of assistant coaches that have been passed over for head coaching position, guys like Eric Bienemy, Byron Leftwich, etc, to sign on to a class action suit, then they might have a better chance of succeeding in court if they could establish a pattern of passing over qualified minority coaches. But it's incredibly difficult to prove on an individual basis that you were discriminated against.


The coaches you mentioned are always expected to get a HC job in the future. Why would they torpedo that after working so hard to get to where they are today?
Any coach that adds their name to this is putting in danger their future in coaching at the NFL level, so I wouldn't expect many more to add their name to the list.
But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a regular basis.
What we are seeing is a glimpse of the sordid underbelly of the NFL and probably Professional Sports as we know it.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:17 am

If Flores could get a fair number of assistant coaches that have been passed over for head coaching position, guys like Eric Bienemy, Byron Leftwich, etc, to sign on to a class action suit, then they might have a better chance of succeeding in court if they could establish a pattern of passing over qualified minority coaches. But it's incredibly difficult to prove on an individual basis that you were discriminated against.


NorthHawk wrote:The coaches you mentioned are always expected to get a HC job in the future. Why would they torpedo that after working so hard to get to where they are today? Any coach that adds their name to this is putting in danger their future in coaching at the NFL level, so I wouldn't expect many more to add their name to the list.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a regular basis. What we are seeing is a glimpse of the sordid underbelly of the NFL and probably Professional Sports as we know it.


I agree. I was only using their names as an example of a possible class action lawsuit. I did not say that they were likely to or ought to join such a lawsuit.

It's a similar situation with the Rooney Rule. Even though there is a strong case to be made that it's illegal, it's not likely to be challenged in court as it would require a plaintiff, and anyone that is qualified enough to be considered a serious candidate for a head coaching position is not going to throw away their career by suing a potential employer for discrimination.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby obiken » Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:20 am

Obi, I don't care if there are a dozen coaches making the same accusation about their owners, it's not evidence that a judge could use to send a case to trial. They're going to have to produce some type of hard, physical evidence, such as a written offer or instruction on a text or email that's proven to have come from the owner or other individual representing the team, an eyewitness that can swear under oath that they heard them make the offer/instruction, etc.

Ask yourself why, despite the hundreds, if not thousands, of accusations of foul play in the 2020 election, that not a single one of those accusations ever got to trial. It's because there was no evidence.

I'm not saying that there wasn't a bribe or that Flores wasn't terminated because he is black. To the contrary, it's beginning to smell really bad and I suspect that they might be onto something. Where there's smoke, there's usually a fire. All I am saying is that in order to be successful in a court of law, he's going to have to produce some type of evidence besides his claim.


River you have more than one coach swearing to the bribes under oath thats evidence. Not mention the case for Flores with the E-mails is a slam dunk.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby Agent 86 » Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:29 am

All I can say is Wow! This story has me completely drawn in and I am so fascinated with the entire context of it all. So many good articles I have read on The Athletic about it.

Unfortunately based on past investigations by that POS Goodell, I don't expect much to come out of it. I sincerely hope Flores and Jackson have proof about the tanking allegations by their owners. Ross came out last night and was adamant about the accusations being false. Leads me to believe they had done their homework and are confident nothing can be proven. As mentioned before, case of He Said/He Said.

And the other side of it about what Flores has felt he has gone through in New York and Denver. Imagine going through a head coach of the NFL interview knowing you are there to just appease a rule and they had already made their decision because of an accidental text you got from a colleague.

This is the sports story of the year in my mind, I am anxious to see how it all plays out. Have to think Flores and Jackson will never coach again in the NFL a la Kaepernick.
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Re: Flores files lawsuit alleging racism

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:45 am

Apparently the Texans still consider Flores to be on their short list so maybe the NFL will put
pressure on them to hire him. They need to get ahead of this story and what better way than
hire the accuser. He’s shown to be a good coach so maybe he won’t be “Kapaernicked”.
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