Can we win another SB with RW

[mykc14]

I love RW and don't want him to leave but another thread has caused me to do some research about something I have been wondering for awhile- how much cap space can one player take up and still allow you to have a SB caliber supporting cast? So based on my research back to 2000 as far as I can tell no SB winning QB has been even close to 13% of his teams total cap the year they won the SB. In fact most of them are below 10%. It almost seems like a lock that if your QB is making over 12% of your teams total cap you will not win the SB. This year the only QB that is left that is even above 10% of his team's is Jimmy G (he's at 13.7%). So I guess this all points to one thing for us as Hawks fans- is RW making too much for us to win another SB with him at QB? Should we move on?

RW's Cap hit as a percentage of our teams Cap total:

2018: 13.4%
2019: 13.8%
2020: 15.5%
2021: 17.5%
2022: 16.9%
2023: 17.8%

It reminds me of the office when Michael creates "The Michael Scott Paper Company" and he goes to his accountant who tells him that he needs to raise his prices. Michael says "but my prices are the only thing keeping me in business" and his accountant says, "your prices are driving you out of business." Or something like that. The point is RW is the reason we are a playoff caliber team each year, but is his contract the reason that we are not a SB contending team? I hope I'm wrong and he stays here and we win multiple SB's but I don't see it happening with his cap hits in the next 2 years. Thoughts?

[RiverDog]

I love RW and don't want him to leave but another thread has caused me to do some research about something I have been wondering for awhile- how much cap space can one player take up and still allow you to have a SB caliber supporting cast? So based on my research back to 2000 as far as I can tell no SB winning QB has been even close to 13% of his teams total cap the year they won the SB. In fact most of them are below 10%. It almost seems like a lock that if your QB is making over 12% of your teams total cap you will not win the SB. This year the only QB that is left that is even above 10% of his team's is Jimmy G (he's at 13.7%). So I guess this all points to one thing for us as Hawks fans- is RW making too much for us to win another SB with him at QB? Should we move on?

RW's Cap hit as a percentage of our teams Cap total:

2018: 13.4%
2019: 13.8%
2020: 15.5%
2021: 17.5%
2022: 16.9%
2023: 17.8%

It reminds me of the office when Michael creates "The Michael Scott Paper Company" and he goes to his accountant who tells him that he needs to raise his prices. Michael says "but my prices are the only thing keeping me in business" and his accountant says, "your prices are driving you out of business." Or something like that. The point is RW is the reason we are a playoff caliber team each year, but is his contract the reason that we are not a SB contending team? I hope I'm wrong and he stays here and we win multiple SB's but I don't see it happening with his cap hits in the next 2 years. Thoughts?

We also have Metcalf to take care of, who's likely to hog up another 10-12% of the cap. It's not unreasonable to think that we could have two players on one side of the ball taking up 30% of our cap, and that doesn't even consider players like Lockett, Penny, Carson, et al.

If we keep Russell, we're going to have some tough decisions to make, which is one of the reasons why I continue to advocate trading Metcalf. It's a lot easier to win w/o a #1 receiver than it is w/o a franchise QB.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sure. We could. Pete needs to build a decent team around him, then Russell has to be able to close the deal when it's all on the line or the defense if it comes down that way at the end.

[mykc14]

Sure. We could. Pete needs to build a decent team around him, then Russell has to be able to close the deal when it's all on the line or the defense if it comes down that way at the end.

I guess that is the issue. It is incredibly hard to put a decent team around a player who is taking up that much of the cap- which is why I think it hasn't been done.

[mykc14]

We also have Metcalf to take care of, who's likely to hog up another 10-12% of the cap. It's not unreasonable to think that we could have two players on one side of the ball taking up 30% of our cap, and that doesn't even consider players like Lockett, Penny, Carson, et al.

If we keep Russell, we're going to have some tough decisions to make, which is one of the reasons why I continue to advocate trading Metcalf. It's a lot easier to win w/o a #1 receiver than it is w/o a franchise QB.

You're not wrong. DK is going to get a big contract, but because he still has one more year on his rookie contract it is possible to push those big cap hits until the end of his contract. It sure would be easier if RW were taking up 10 mil less a year. Imagine the team we could have if RW's cap hit was 22 million less dollars than it was this year (difference between him and Brady). I don't blame RW for getting market value for himself, I'm just saying there seems to be a clear pattern between what you pay your QB and SB wins. I also understand that if you have a crappy QB you aren't even a playoff team. You are what we were in the 90's and nobody wants to go back there, but if we want SB wins I don't think it happens with RW and his current salary structure.

[RiverDog]

We also have Metcalf to take care of, who's likely to hog up another 10-12% of the cap. It's not unreasonable to think that we could have two players on one side of the ball taking up 30% of our cap, and that doesn't even consider players like Lockett, Penny, Carson, et al.

If we keep Russell, we're going to have some tough decisions to make, which is one of the reasons why I continue to advocate trading Metcalf. It's a lot easier to win w/o a #1 receiver than it is w/o a franchise QB.

You're not wrong. DK is going to get a big contract, but because he still has one more year on his rookie contract it is possible to push those big cap hits until the end of his contract. It sure would be easier if RW were taking up 10 mil less a year. Imagine the team we could have if RW's cap hit was 22 million less dollars than it was this year (difference between him and Brady). I don't blame RW for getting market value for himself, I'm just saying there seems to be a clear pattern between what you pay your QB and SB wins. I also understand that if you have a crappy QB you aren't even a playoff team. You are what we were in the 90's and nobody wants to go back there, but if we want SB wins I don't think it happens with RW and his current salary structure.

I wouldn't hold my breath that Russell will give us a hometown break.

Only part of my rationale for trading Metcalf has to do with money. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. Teams do not need a Calvin Johnson/Terrell Owens type of receivers to succeed. It's an overpaid position IMO. Give me Tyler Lockett and Doug Baldwin and a good QB.

[Aseahawkfan]

I guess that is the issue. It is incredibly hard to put a decent team around a player who is taking up that much of the cap- which is why I think it hasn't been done.

Teams win with high paid QBs all the time. It's hard to remain dominant with a high paid players, which is as intended. It's why the salary cap works at creating a high level of competition in the NFL.

If you're not drafting well and makings stupid trades for safeties who want 18 million a year but can't cover the pass well in a passing league, then you're not even going about building a good team around your QB in the right way.

Pete is not grasping why drafting well and managing free agency with a focus on the inexpensive is important. I'm not sure why Pete and John have started to build teams in such a bad way as they seemed to grasp how to do it early on. Now Pete's just tossing away draft capital yearly on trades and we're not hitting on these picks they make at key positions like O-line and D-line. You can't fail that much at key positions and expect to do well.

Which is why I wouldn't mind seeing new blood at the HC and/or GM because I feel like Pete and John are no longer following the modern day NFL principles for how to build a quality team around a good QB.

[Hawktawk]

Can we win another SB with Russ? Depending on who he is sure . We won one when he was far less experienced and polished . But right now the question is can we win a divisional game ? We haven’t since 2014. 1 playoff win in 5 seasons . Yet we see Jimmy G suiting up for his second conference championship in 3 seasons . Nobody will argue Garroppolo is as talented as Russ . I’m not the cap guru most are so I don’t get all that stuff . I know 35 million QBs like Russ and Rodgers are supposed to be the difference makers in a field goal league . In the last 18 months Russ hasn’t been clutch , hasn’t been big in big moments . Besides I’m not convinced he’s planning on being here . If he’s here and he’s good Russ and we play like the last 2 weeks on offense with he and Penney yeah we can win it all . Just not sure which Russ we can expect if he’s back .

[Oly]

If we had another 2012-type draft (hell, even 2010 or 2011) where we got 2-3 players who became All-Stars in their 2nd or 3rd years, then sure. Of course, when you put that much cap into one player you are gambling that you can get several great players on rookie contracts. But as we've seen this team draft like s*** and then throw away draft capital, the chances of that happening are less and less.

Could we? Sure. Is there anything I've seen with the FO in the last 5 years that gives me hope they can pull it off? Nah.

[mykc14]

Teams win with high paid QBs all the time. It's hard to remain dominant with a high paid players, which is as intended. It's why the salary cap works at creating a high level of competition in the NFL.

If you're not drafting well and makings stupid trades for safeties who want 18 million a year but can't cover the pass well in a passing league, then you're not even going about building a good team around your QB in the right way.

Pete is not grasping why drafting well and managing free agency with a focus on the inexpensive is important. I'm not sure why Pete and John have started to build teams in such a bad way as they seemed to grasp how to do it early on. Now Pete's just tossing away draft capital yearly on trades and we're not hitting on these picks they make at key positions like O-line and D-line. You can't fail that much at key positions and expect to do well.

Which is why I wouldn't mind seeing new blood at the HC and/or GM because I feel like Pete and John are no longer following the modern day NFL principles for how to build a quality team around a good QB.

There is no doubt high priced QB’s win a lot of games but they haven’t won a SB (at least not it he past 21 years and I imagine that tend would continue throughout the salary cap era). We’ll see if the next crop of young QBs can get it done when there Cap hit gets over 12% but I doubt it. I hope I’m wrong, but it hasn’t been done.

As far as PC’s team management goes it has been terrible. His first “reset” was a disaster with squandered picks, dumb trades, and terrible use of FA dollars. There is little hope that he’ll get it right this time, but maybe.

[mykc14]

I wouldn't hold my breath that Russell will give us a hometown break.

Only part of my rationale for trading Metcalf has to do with money. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. Teams do not need a Calvin Johnson/Terrell Owens type of receivers to succeed. It's an overpaid position IMO. Give me Tyler Lockett and Doug Baldwin and a good QB.

There is no way RW would ever give us a hometown discount, and I don’t blame him, I just don’t think we will win the SB with him making this much. Yeah I like DK alot and it would be nice to get him at a slightly reduced price. I would much rather pay him 20 mil/year than pay Adams 17.5 mil, t I see where you are coming from. Again, the nice thing about giving him 20 mil a year now is that you can spread that bonus over an extra year because of his rookie contract so on the books it’s more of a 16 mil/year contract.

[Hawktawk]

I wouldn't hold my breath that Russell will give us a hometown break.



There is no way RW would ever give us a hometown discount, and I don’t blame him, I just don’t think we will win the SB with him making this much. Yeah I like DK alot and it would be nice to get him at a slightly reduced price. I would much rather pay him 20 mil/year than pay Adams 17.5 mil, t I see where you are coming from. Again, the nice thing about giving him 20 mil a year now is that you can spread that bonus over an extra year because of his rookie contract so on the books it’s more of a 16 mil/year contract.

What discount ? Russ is showing discontent with being here right now and there’s been absolutely no talk of an extension from either side . He’s got 2 years on his deal . It would seem something should be getting done right now if it’s what everyone wants . If we let him get in a contract year we’re getting nothing but his services and he’s gone for sure . I’m for pulling a Tampa , signing everyone and going for broke next year but only if Russ is all in . Any more of this “
I gonna think about my legacy “ tired of getting hit “ I wast to win 3 or 4 more superbowls”.I ,I ,I. There’s no I in team . Any more of this BS trade him to Vegas for Carr . If the 9ers can get to the conference championship with Garrapolo we can with Carr with zero whining about his teammates .

[NorthHawk]

KC is doing well with Mahomes contract along with Clark's $100M contract on the other side of the ball.
It's how the contracts are structured that determine Cap hits and they can be manipulated in many ways.
JS has chosen not to do that so far.

[curmudgeon]

No.

[mykc14]

KC is doing well with Mahomes contract along with Clark's $100M contract on the other side of the ball.
It's how the contracts are structured that determine Cap hits and they can be manipulated in many ways.
JS has chosen not to do that so far.

KC looks great, but Im talking about Cap Hits each year. This year Mahomes cap hit is only 7 million. We’ll see how good it looks in in the next few years. Its supposed to jump to 35 million next year. Imagine how much better we elf be in RW’s cap hit was 25 million less. Obviously the Chiefs are making use of Mahomes rookie deal, but unless they do something crazy with his contract next year they are going to be in trouble cap wise.

[NorthHawk]

KC looks great, but Im talking about Cap Hits each year. This year Mahomes cap hit is only 7 million. We’ll see how good it looks in in the next few years. Its supposed to jump to 35 million next year. Imagine how much better we elf be in RW’s cap hit was 25 million less. Obviously the Chiefs are making use of Mahomes rookie deal, but unless they do something crazy with his contract next year they are going to be in trouble cap wise.

Mahomes is on his 2nd contract which is 10 years and $450M. It also has some provisions to move funds around and lessen the impact in future years.
Frank Clark is also on a $100M contract with other methods of mitigating Cap impacts.
However, there is some truth in the fact contracts do impact the Cap, and Clark may be available in FA because of it, but their team is trying to build towards a SB run or series thereof while we
seem to be just plugging holes and scrambling to get a pass rush and sign a bunch of backups in FA along the OL.
I'm beginning to wonder if we can't attract FA's any more without really breaking the bank. It seems we are again missing out on them the last few years - at least the top FA's.

[mykc14]

Mahomes is on his 2nd contract which is 10 years and $450M. It also has some provisions to move funds around and lessen the impact in future years.
Frank Clark is also on a $100M contract with other methods of mitigating Cap impacts.
However, there is some truth in the fact contracts do impact the Cap, and Clark may be available in FA because of it, but their team is trying to build towards a SB run or series thereof while we
seem to be just plugging holes and scrambling to get a pass rush and sign a bunch of backups in FA along the OL.
I'm beginning to wonder if we can't attract FA's any more without really breaking the bank. It seems we are again missing out on them the last few years - at least the top FA's.

Yes Mahomes signed his second contract but the team is still benefiting from his rookie contract, which allows them to spread that cap hit an extra two years, which is what the Hawks were able to do with RW. It looks like the Chiefs decided to tak all of that savings and apply it to this year though as his cap hit goes up to 35 mil next year and then 46 the year after and stays between 46 and 59 the East of the contract. They have some big cap hits coming up soon as they keep renegotiating to free up space and win now. The reality is Mahomes cap hit is going to balloon eventually. The premise of my argument is that teams can’t win a SB if their QB is taking up more than 12% of their cap- or at least the fact that it hasn’t happened yet. The fact that Mahomes is making only 7 mil allows them to have those high cap hits for other players- which adds to my point. Mahomes is a great QB and if anybody can do it’s him, but we’ll see if they win one when he is making over 12% of the cap. I imagine it will happen eventually, but it’s going to take a special player on a special team. Manning did it while taking up 11.7% of Denver’s cap, but nobody else has really even come close and with RW at 15-17% the odds of him being the guy that does it is slim to none.

[Aseahawkfan]

There is no doubt high priced QB’s win a lot of games but they haven’t won a SB (at least not it he past 21 years and I imagine that tend would continue throughout the salary cap era). We’ll see if the next crop of young QBs can get it done when there Cap hit gets over 12% but I doubt it. I hope I’m wrong, but it hasn’t been done.

As far as PC’s team management goes it has been terrible. His first “reset” was a disaster with squandered picks, dumb trades, and terrible use of FA dollars. There is little hope that he’ll get it right this time, but maybe.

Brady won one last year making 25 million? That was 12.6% of the 2020 salary cap.

Peyton won in 2016 making 19 million a year. That was 16.8% of the cap in 2016.

I'll look deeper. But the percentage of the salary cap the QB takes up is not a great determinant of Super Bowl victory given teams without a good QB rarely contend on a yearly basis. You want to go to more than one Super Bowl, you need a great and often expensive QB. You want to win a one off and then maybe not even see the playoffs on a yearly basis, sure, you could give drafting a QB every year a shot.

Bottom line is regardless of QB expense, only one QB and one team have won the Super Bowl consistently for the past two decades.

According to some on here, it was all luck by that QB. So I guess you should try to draft a very lucky QB then build some team around him is the way to win more than one Super Bowl and compete every year. QB doesn't have to be elite or good, just lucky. So we need to focus on drafting the luckiest QB in the next draft to have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

[obiken]

No, we cant, Russ will want out, and will say so around May. Then what do you do?

[Aseahawkfan]

No, we cant, Russ will want out, and will say so around May. Then what do you do?

I doubt that. Who cares what Russ says. You don't get to force your way out under contract. Didn't work well for Aaron Rodgers, won't work well for Wilson if it is tried.

[RiverDog]

No, we cant, Russ will want out, and will say so around May. Then what do you do?

If Russell wants out, the most opportune time is going to be sometime after the Super Bowl in mid February and before the draft in late May. By the time the draft rolls around, teams will have pretty much decided on the direction they want to go with their rosters.

[TriCitySam]

If RW returns to form, yes we can. We've seen were playing even in the NFCW. We have cap space (yes we have some to sign), but SF and LA are in worse shape. We have $42MM -but have some guys to sign, 6 for sure - but should get some relief from Bobby Wagner (his cap # is $20MM); SF is at $11MM, but they have only 32 players under contract (Garopollo is a $26MM hit); LA is already over the cap by nearly $6MM, and they have some guys to sign. You can always play games with cap space, but my point is with our advantage we SHOULD gain some ground when it comes to talent acquisition.

[mykc14]

Brady won one last year making 25 million? That was 12.6% of the 2020 salary cap.

Peyton won in 2016 making 19 million a year. That was 16.8% of the cap in 2016.

I'll look deeper. But the percentage of the salary cap the QB takes up is not a great determinant of Super Bowl victory given teams without a good QB rarely contend on a yearly basis. You want to go to more than one Super Bowl, you need a great and often expensive QB. You want to win a one off and then maybe not even see the playoffs on a yearly basis, sure, you could give drafting a QB every year a shot.

Bottom line is regardless of QB expense, only one QB and one team have won the Super Bowl consistently for the past two decades.

According to some on here, it was all luck by that QB. So I guess you should try to draft a very lucky QB then build some team around him is the way to win more than one Super Bowl and compete every year. QB doesn't have to be elite or good, just lucky. So we need to focus on drafting the luckiest QB in the next draft to have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

Brady's cap hit was above the 12% threshold (12.2, but Manning's was only 11.7% (his cap hit was only 17.5 million the year he won it).

https://overthecap.com/player/peyton-manning/1/

I completely agree that you need a good, often high priced QB to consistently be competitive in the NFL, but it appears that the model to win a SB doesn't include a QB taking up a large percentage of your cap. I am also arguing that it is not surprise that the only QB who has won or been to the SB consistently in the last 20 years is the guy who consistently has agreed to contracts below market value. When other QB's were trying to become the highest paid players at their position he was fine taking less, to help his team win. It is not a stretch to say that we probably aren't talking about Brady being the GOAT if he continually worked contracts to make him the highest paid QB in the league. Tom Brady's main goal was to win. He realized he couldn't do that while being the highest paid QB in the league. RW wants to win, but he thinks he can do that while being the highest paid QB in the league. The bottom line is since RW has made more than 5% of our teams total cap we are 2-4 in the playoffs and have missed the playoffs entirely twice.

Hopefully with good moves from our FO this off-season we can get back to the SB, but with RW's Cap hit at 17% of our total cap it's going to be tough.

[Aseahawkfan]

Brady's cap hit was above the 12% threshold (12.2, but Manning's was only 11.7% (his cap hit was only 17.5 million the year he won it).

https://overthecap.com/player/peyton-manning/1/

I completely agree that you need a good, often high priced QB to consistently be competitive in the NFL, but it appears that the model to win a SB doesn't include a QB taking up a large percentage of your cap. I am also arguing that it is not surprise that the only QB who has won or been to the SB consistently in the last 20 years is the guy who consistently has agreed to contracts below market value. When other QB's were trying to become the highest paid players at their position he was fine taking less, to help his team win. It is not a stretch to say that we probably aren't talking about Brady being the GOAT if he continually worked contracts to make him the highest paid QB in the league. Tom Brady's main goal was to win. He realized he couldn't do that while being the highest paid QB in the league. RW wants to win, but he thinks he can do that while being the highest paid QB in the league. The bottom line is since RW has made more than 5% of our teams total cap we are 2-4 in the playoffs and have missed the playoffs entirely twice.

Hopefully with good moves from our FO this off-season we can get back to the SB, but with RW's Cap hit at 17% of our total cap it's going to be tough.

We have a test subject of one for winning multiple Super Bowls in the modern era. He took less money to have a better team around him. What can we really say. Jut another reason why he is the GOAT QB. He was one of the few QBS that wanted to win more than he wanted to get paid. Brady could have leveraged his accomplishments into an immense contract. But he wanted to set an example for his teammates that winning as a team was more important than individuals getting paid. But he might be the only guy I can remember doing this in the salary cap era. You can't force a QB to be like Brady and want to win more than he wants to get paid. They gotta want that themselves.

[mykc14]

Here is a list of SB winning QB's in the salary cap era and their cap hits the year they won.

94- Young 13.1
95- Aikman 6.7
96- Favre 10.2
97- Elway 5.0
98- Elway 4.9
99- Warner 1.3
00- Dilfer ?
01- Brady 0.5
02- Johnson ??
03- Brady 4.4
04- Brady 6.3
05- Rothlesburger 4.9
06- Manning 10.4
07- Eli 9.2
08- Rothlesburger 6.9
09- Brees 8.7
10- Rodgers (Uncapped year, but it was around 7% of what the cap would have been)
11- Eli 11.7
12- Flacco 6.6
13- Russ 0.5
14- Brady 10.6
15- Manning 11.7
16- Brady 8.6
17- Foles 0.9
18- Brady 12.2
19- Mahomes 2.4
20- Brady 12.2

The highest hits were Young in 94 at 13.1, Brady in 20 and 18 at 12.2, and Mannings (Eli in 11 and Peyton in 15). 16 QB's were under 10% of the cap and 8 were over 10%. The average of the 24 QB's counted was 5.98%. One thing that I noticed is that most of the QB's had higher cap hits in other years. Not one QB won when they were in the top 5 of QB cap hits that year. This just reinforces the idea that a high QB cap hit is extremely difficult to overcome and as it applies to RW it seems like we are facing an uphill battle. To me we really have 5 options. 1- target a QB in the draft who you think has the potential to be a top 10 QB in the league within their first 3 years. Then trade RW for picks to acquire him. 2- Trade RW and replace him with a lower price veteran who is a good fit for our offense and surround him with extreme talent with the money you have saved. 3- Trade RW for another good QB who has already signed a long-term contract with his team who will have to absorb his signing bonus so his remaining years on his contract carry a lower cap hit (like what the Rams did with Stafford, except we wouldn't be trading picks we would be getting picks). 4- Roll with Russ, make the best Front Office decisions in the history of the game and hope he is the QB that does what not other QB has done before him. 5- Extend RW, thus lowering his cap hit for the next 3 seasons, but eventually putting yourself in salary cap hell because his Cap Hit will be so high.

Option 1- there doesn't seem to be that type of QB in the draft right now. If there were that would be the best option, IMO.
Option 2- I don't like this idea at all and hope we don't go this route.
Option 3- This one could actually work, but I can't think of a great option. Derek Carr has been rumored, but his contract is up after next year and their is no bonus that the Raiders will have to pay. His 22 contract is all salary and no signing bonus. His cap hit is low, however at 19 mil. This trade would probably require some sort of contract extension to make sense, unless they get multiple 1st round drat picks.
Option 4- I love Russ and want this to work, I just don't think it is possible.
Option 5- I don't think this will happen this off-season because RW would have to agree and I don't see him doing anything like that right now with the Hawks

[mykc14]

We have a test subject of one for winning multiple Super Bowls in the modern era. He took less money to have a better team around him. What can we really say. Jut another reason why he is the GOAT QB. He was one of the few QBS that wanted to win more than he wanted to get paid. Brady could have leveraged his accomplishments into an immense contract. But he wanted to set an example for his teammates that winning as a team was more important than individuals getting paid. But he might be the only guy I can remember doing this in the salary cap era. You can't force a QB to be like Brady and want to win more than he wants to get paid. They gotta want that themselves.

I completely agree.

[obiken]

I doubt that. Who cares what Russ says. You don't get to force your way out under contract. Didn't work well for Aaron Rodgers, won't work well for Wilson if it is tried.

Come on ASHF, do you really want an RW in house that declares he does not want to be here, and would be out to protect his body for the future, come on.

[Hawktawk]

I doubt that. Who cares what Russ says. You don't get to force your way out under contract. Didn't work well for Aaron Rodgers, won't work well for Wilson if it is tried.

Come on ASHF, do you really want an RW in house that declares he does not want to be here, and would be out to protect his body for the future, come on.

Yeah I agree with this . There have been leaks 2 years in a row about his wandering eyes . Now a sub par year for team and player . Let’s be honest . Of the 4 remaining QBs I’d have to take 2 over Russ right now and also 2 that have been eliminated . He’s got 2 years left on his deal but is it worth trying to appease him if he wants to leave ? In this case no . Get max value . Move him now if he bitches one more time . His career trajectory is closer to cam Newton or Joe Flacco than drew Brees or Tom Brady .

[obiken]

Yeah I agree with this . There have been leaks 2 years in a row about his wandering eyes . Now a sub par year for team and player . Let’s be honest . Of the 4 remaining QBs I’d have to take 2 over Russ right now and also 2 that have been eliminated . He’s got 2 years left on his deal but is it worth trying to appease him if he wants to leave ? In this case no . Get max value . Move him now if he bitches one more time . His career trajectory is closer to cam Newton or Joe Flacco than drew Brees or Tom Brady .

I agree with you on everything HT except the last part, I think he has way more left than Newton or Flacco.

[Aseahawkfan]

Come on ASHF, do you really want an RW in house that declares he does not want to be here, and would be out to protect his body for the future, come on.

Yes. I don't believe Russell Wilson will do anything but his best no matter where he goes. He doesn't know how to do it any other way. He will give his all.

I don't believe all this diva crap about Russell. Russell is a good man who is very dedicated to his craft and winning. I don't see him asking for a trade or freaking out. He'll keep everything close and business-like. If he is here, he will give Seattle everything he has every game as well as off the field when preparing.

I like Russell in Seattle. I don't think any intelligent team management would give up the franchise QB after one down year in a division as competitive as ours.

If you're going to get rid of Russell, might as well start a full rebuild with a new coach and GM as well.

[NorthHawk]

Russell is either all in or all out so he will play his best.
The problem is the surrounding players and divisions that will naturally occur from them knowing the situation.
How can a leader really lead when everyone knows they don't want to be here? It will be interesting to see how
it unfolds if he's "forced to stay", but if history is any indication it won't be the optimum situation.

[tarlhawk]

If "history" and "leadership" are your concerns...then explain Aaron Rodgers MVP year and the success of Green Bay in 2021? He CLEARLY stated his desire to be traded. He was "forced" to stay and his team excelled anyways. With cap issues he will probably be traded or he'll actually retire if he ignors all the urgent calls from John Elway and Denver.

[Hawktawk]

If "history" and "leadership" are your concerns...then explain Aaron Rodgers MVP year and the success of Green Bay in 2021? He CLEARLY stated his desire to be traded. He was "forced" to stay and his team excelled anyways. With cap issues he will probably be traded or he'll actually retire if he ignors all the urgent calls from John Elway and Denver.

Did Rodgers excell 1 seed flameout to a team that didn’t score an offensive Touchdown . Nobody in GB including Rodgers thinks it was a good year . That organization gets mad losing in the conference title game . For whatever reason Seattle has not won a divisional since 2014 and has only reached the divisional round in 1 of the last 5 seasons . A big part is slow starts on offense in every game except Atlanta . I get accused of recency bias pointing out innacurate throws and boneheaded sacks and playing smallest in big moments . Tell me the last time Russ was the difference late in a game ? I can’t remember . He was described on Brock and Salk with Joe Fann as being still a great player but on the back 9 , not nearly as good as Mahomes or Allen , not nearly the upside of Burrows even . But he’s going to command 40 million plus . That guy is on your team to win games . To definitely be the reason in close games . I’ll ask you . When was the last time he did it ? I think if he wants to ask for a trade trade him now while he’s still got high value . He’s not Rpodgers and personality wise the delivery is far different and he doesn’t speak in conspiracy but he’s as petulant with the organization . 5 years of “ need more dudes” after another playoff exit instead of supporting his team and admitting he sucked . Then last off season it wasn’t his agent whining about getting hit too much after 5 sacks in a dreadful performance in the WC.

Last season I remember at least 3 times he publicly brushed off Carroll’s criticism of his play , after Tenn, Rams and Bears. Maybe it’s cool with you because of all the great highlights and winning . If I’ve got recency bias you have good old days bias . Only in Seattle would the fans say the last 6 seasons have been “ great “

[NorthHawk]

If "history" and "leadership" are your concerns...then explain Aaron Rodgers MVP year and the success of Green Bay in 2021? He CLEARLY stated his desire to be traded. He was "forced" to stay and his team excelled anyways. With cap issues he will probably be traded or he'll actually retire if he ignors all the urgent calls from John Elway and Denver.

He got what he wanted in the new HC meaning he got the players he wanted and had input that was valued. Wilson got neither and was shunned when
he offered his plan to help the Offense. That and being stuffed into Pete's view of how the Offense should run is pushing him to want to move on.

[Hawktawk]

Didn’t Russ get a new OC , new Guard and another weapon in Eskridge ? Russ got 35 million. Quit whining and do your job . I hope he’s all in for the duration of what I hope is a successful end to his career . But any more leaks it’s time to pull the ripcord .

[Aseahawkfan]

Didn’t Russ get a new OC , new Guard and another weapon in Eskridge ? Russ got 35 million. Quit whining and do your job . I hope he’s all in for the duration of what I hope is a successful end to his career . But any more leaks it’s time to pull the ripcord .

When did Russ whine? Or this more of your delusional BS.

[Hawktawk]

When did Russ whine? Or this more of your delusional BS.

I consider him coming out after every playoff loss saying “ we need more dudes “ after playing like crap in pretty much every one of the losses . Then last year “ tired of getting hit so much “ having his team storm a coaches meeting to demand changes to the offense . 2 years in a row playing games about where he would play if traded .

I call that whining . I call it being a bad teammate . Me first . I want mine first but I want 3 or 4 more superbowls .

Again I’d love to be wrong and the difference with lots in the forum is I will own it . I just sense we have seen the best of Russell and it’s important to decide If it’s worth forcing him to stay if he wants to go or get the draft haul and start over . Jimmy G is a game from his second SB in 3 years . If we’re paying 35 million better be getting our money’s worth

[mykc14]

If we’re paying 35 million better be getting our money’s worth

That is the problem. We are not getting our money's worth, not even close. I'm not saying it's all on Rus either. PC wants to play a certain brand of football that does not need an elite QB to run. My thing has always been if we are going to pay RW like he is the guy then we need an offense that uses him as the guy. Right now our offense is stay ahead of the sticks, don't turn the ball over etc... The problem with that for us is the fact that it puts you in a lot of 3rd and 5 or shorter situations, which is actually the only real weakness in RW's game. He has been really bad at third down. So we are paying a guy top dollar to run an offense that is not focused on his skill set (I do think there are aspects of our offense that do suit his skill set, like PA passing but that is a part of every offense) and continually forces him to try and be successful at his weakness. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We saw RW at his best to a few years ago and it was a record breaking offense. At the first sign of trouble PC lost his crap and toned everything down. He complained that teams were playing too much 2 high safety on them. If you can't run plays that beat 2 high safties in the NFL then you are in trouble. Part of that is running the ball when they are giving you that look, but another part of that is motions and getting the ball to your guys in space underneath. The Bills ran a 2 high look most of the night vs. the Cheifs and the Chiefs were able to shred them. It does seem like the NFL is changing and PC is having a hard time changing with it (I would love to eat crow on this!!)

[TriCitySam]

[

That is the problem. We are not getting our money's worth, not even close. I'm not saying it's all on Rus either. PC wants to play a certain brand of football that does not need an elite QB to run. My thing has always been if we are going to pay RW like he is the guy then we need an offense that uses him as the guy. Right now our offense is stay ahead of the sticks, don't turn the ball over etc.

I don't see our offensive style any different than most (save KC and LA - SEA is 13th in RP ratio) - most all want to run the ball and have balance - even Russell. His #1 complaint remains the same: he wants better OL play. We all do, Pete does. But if the passing game isn't in sync and you can't find or hit the open guys, that's not on Pete.

[Aseahawkfan]

I consider him coming out after every playoff loss saying “ we need more dudes “ after playing like crap in pretty much every one of the losses . Then last year “ tired of getting hit so much “ having his team storm a coaches meeting to demand changes to the offense . 2 years in a row playing games about where he would play if traded .

I call that whining . I call it being a bad teammate . Me first . I want mine first but I want 3 or 4 more superbowls .

Again I’d love to be wrong and the difference with lots in the forum is I will own it . I just sense we have seen the best of Russell and it’s important to decide If it’s worth forcing him to stay if he wants to go or get the draft haul and start over . Jimmy G is a game from his second SB in 3 years . If we’re paying 35 million better be getting our money’s worth

What a bunch of horse puckey.

You're a whiner and a bad fan. You turn on the QB who has given every thing to Seattle for all of his career after a bad year. You constantly whine on the forum when the team doesn't do well. I guess by your own definition of bad and whining, you're a bad fan and whiner who turns on the guy giving his fall for the team since 2012 after a bad year based on some interviews where he answered the question asked.