Brady

[Hawktawk]

The DC threads off the rails . I’ll state definitively he is my GOAT in the profession . You can’t be lucky enough to win 14 divisional games , 7 sbs , 10 conference championships over 20 years . I understand the subjectivity and I don’t think it’s possible to be as definitive in most sports and I didn’t feel this way a few years ago . Last year tipped the scales . There’s word that win or lose Brady’s mulling retirement this year which may be smart as the team is in cap hell . Either way it’s the greatest set of accomplishments in organized professional sports history . Because he played the most violent game and it’s a single elimination game , not a 5 or 7 game series . Win or go home . Ask Arod or Russ about the pressure or pick a name of the one and done champs . It’s mind boggling what the man has done .

[NorthHawk]

Brady didn't win it last year, his Defense did along with the KC OL being decimated.
I will say this about him, he is the Greatest Opportunist of All Time as he's been along for the ride in many years and has been worthy of winning some Super Bowls.\
But to say the greatest QB of all time is a very high bar that cannot be proven. It can be shown to be suspect though as you would think the best ever would hold many
if not most of the QB records. He holds very few if any, and others who played less and had fewer chances of going deep into the playoffs hold more.

[Hawktawk]

I think he’s actually got quite a bit of individual NFL records . I’ll take the 7 championships over passing titles and so will be but he’s got both . I’ll do some research . I know he had a season with over 50 TDs , several MVPs , offensive players of the year . By 10 years into his career he and BB were the only guys left . It’s definitely the GOAT combination of player and coach . But Tampa? Defense won it ? Defenses look a lot better when the qb doesn’t hold the ball and take sacks or throw a bunch of picks like the #1 draft pick he replaced . You hate the guy I get it . He can be a complete ass. I find him far more acceptable then Rodgers.

[RiverDog]

You hate the guy (Brady) I get it . He can be a complete ass. I find him far more acceptable then Rodgers.

I don't "hate" Brady or Rodgers as that's a term I reserve for truly despicable individuals like rapists and murderers. But I have very little personal respect for either of them and for me, it's a toss up as to which one is the biggest A-hole.

[Stream Hawk]

There may be an asterisk or two, but he’s the GOAT of qbs.

[mykc14]

There may be an asterisk or two, but he’s the GOAT of qbs.

I agree if his success would have ended after 'deflate gate' then there is no doubt there would be an argument against him being the GOAT, but what he has done since then has cemented him as the GOAT. 3 more SB's multiple Pro Bowls and an MVP caliber season this year. I mean he has back to back 40 TD seasons in the past two years. He has had a better supporting cast than many QB's of his caliber, but lets not forget that a lot of that is because of his willingness to take less money to win. His biggest cap hit in his career has been 25 million. His cap hit this year- 10 million, next year it will be 20 million and it consistently hovers around 9.5-11% of his teams cap. Compare that to a guy like Aaron Rodgers whose cap number is consistently between 11-15% of his teams cap. If you want to know why we are struggling you might want to look at RW's contract as he's been between 13.4%-17.5% of our teams total cap over the past 4 years and will be at 17% next year and almost 18% the year after that. It will be interesting to see how the Chiefs do next year as Mohomes goes from 4% of the total cap this year to 17% next year. Maybe this deserves it's own thread but when was the last time a QB won a SB when they were taking up anywhere near the cap percentage that RW is??

[RiverDog]

Maybe this deserves it's own thread but when was the last time a QB won a SB when they were taking up anywhere near the cap percentage that RW is??

Peyton Manning, Broncos in Super Bowl 50. Manning was making $19.2M a season and the salary cap in 2015 was $143M, or about 13-14% of the cap.

[mykc14]

Peyton Manning, Broncos in Super Bowl 50. Manning was making $19.2M a season and the salary cap in 2015 was $143M, or about 13-14% of the cap.

But his cap hit in 2015 was only 17.5 mil which was 11% of the cap that year. I'm not looking at the average of the QB's over the course of their contract, but the percent of total cap they take up in the year they win.

[Hawktawk]

If there was ever a Super Bowl won by the defense that was the one . Manning was embroiled in the HGH scandal with the Al Jazeera report and his arm was a noodle . I think he completed 1 pass on 3rd down . A lucky Lombardi on a scale similar to many great QBs .

[RiverDog]

Peyton Manning, Broncos in Super Bowl 50. Manning was making $19.2M a season and the salary cap in 2015 was $143M, or about 13-14% of the cap.

But his cap hit in 2015 was only 17.5 mil which was 11% of the cap that year. I'm not looking at the average of the QB's over the course of their contract, but the percent of total cap they take up in the year they win.

Fair enough. But you did say "anywhere close".

I agree with your premise. One of the reasons why Pete had so much success early on is because he had a very good quarterback on a rookie contract, and a 3rd round contract at that, which is one of the reasons why I'm not 'married' to Russell like so many others are.

[mykc14]

Fair enough. But you did say "anywhere close".

Yeah, but RW's is at 15-17% and to be fair I do think Manning's is the highest since at least 2000.

[Aseahawkfan]

Brady didn't win it last year, his Defense did along with the KC OL being decimated.
I will say this about him, he is the Greatest Opportunist of All Time as he's been along for the ride in many years and has been worthy of winning some Super Bowls.\
But to say the greatest QB of all time is a very high bar that cannot be proven. It can be shown to be suspect though as you would think the best ever would hold many
if not most of the QB records. He holds very few if any, and others who played less and had fewer chances of going deep into the playoffs hold more.

You keep talking and don't even bother to look what Brady has done. It's really pathetic how much you dislike Brady.

The guy has dominated the NFL as one of the best in yearly stats and the best championship QB for over two decades. Nothing you say will change that Brady is the GOAT QB.

It's no longer a debate. It's a fact.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't like Brady. I think he's boring. He looks like nothing. I don't know how he did it.

But he's had the greatest career as a QB and impact on winning as QB on any team I've ever seen in NFL history. I have never personally seen a QB no matter what kind of team was around them win as consistently and perform as well as Tom Brady over the course of a 20 year NFL career. What Brady has done I did not think was possible in the NFL, especially the modern NFL, and I doubt we will ever see anything like what Brady has done over his 20 year plus career in the NFL ever again. What Brady has done over his career is not replicable in my opinion. His career achievement of wins and championships by a single QB will stand long after we are all dead and I'm not sure will ever be broken it is so improbable and impossible for a single QB to manage. No one else has even come close in the history of the Super Bowl Era, much less the salary cap era. It was a previously unheard of level of dominance even by teams like the Steel Curtain Steelers or the Great 49ers teams who won with Montana and Young.

When you accomplish something as unlikely to be equaled as what Brady has done over his career, what else do you call him but the GOAT QB?

Ever NFL fan would love to have a QB capable of performing at a high level this long and winning...hell, just getting to the Super Bowl as often as Brady has...on their team. No QB has been as consistently capable of getting their team to the Super Bowl as Tom Brady over an NFL career and winning it. That is in essence what any team wants from their QB who handles the ball more than any other player on the team and is the maker or breaker of team championships. Any NFL fan knows the QB is the biggest common denominator of championship performance, especially in the last twenty years when the passing game became more prominent.

And all that being said. He needs to leave. I'm tired of watching that dude challenge every year. No 43 year old QB should be winning Super Bowls. Retire already, Brady. Leave. Get out of the league. 20 years and 7 Super Bowl wins is enough. Go hang with your hot supermodel wife and live your easy California life Mr. Charmed Life. You can't even make a biopic on Brady because it would like watching I a fairy tale. "I'm Tom Brady. I was born into a rich California family. My life kept getting better as it went on. I've experienced no real hardship other than a knee rehab one year. Then I came back and won 4 more Super Bowls." I don't even know how you write that into an interesting story. I hope he leaves after this year.

[Hawktawk]

He might leave after this game . He’s getting knocked around pretty good . Rams are going to the super bowl by my eyes . 9ers aren’t beating them .

[RiverDog]

He might leave after this game . He’s getting knocked around pretty good . Rams are going to the super bowl by my eyes . 9ers aren’t beating them .

The Rams have been my pick to go to the SB for some time now. They have the most complete team. IMO it's them and KC.

You might be right about Brady. If they lose big, he might decide that enough's enough.

[Stream Hawk]

GOAT. Holy hell.

[obiken]

I have always said teams win Championships. NE was the model of the Salary cap era. Is he a winner yes, he was willing to take Pay-cuts. Better as a single entity than Elway, no. As a Hawks fan who did I fear more, Elway or Brady? Elway by far. Moreover the game changed, QB's are way more important than they used to be. You cannot win on just a running game and defense anymore, Hostetler, Simms, and Rypen, all won SB's, that cannot happen anymore.

[RiverDog]

I have always said teams win Championships. NE was the model of the Salary cap era. Is he a winner yes, he was willing to take Pay-cuts. Better as a single entity than Elway, no. As a Hawks fan who did I fear more, Elway or Brady? Elway by far. Moreover the game changed, QB's are way more important than they used to be. You cannot win on just a running game and defense anymore, Hostetler, Simms, and Rypen, all won SB's, that cannot happen anymore.

Just a couple years ago, Nick Foles won a SB by starting out the season as a backup, so it's not like you can't win without a Pro Bowl QB.

[Aseahawkfan]

Just a couple years ago, Nick Foles won a SB by starting out the season as a backup, so it's not like you can't win without a Pro Bowl QB.

You can win without a Pro Bowl QB. Ravens won with Flacco. It will be hard to remain competitive without a great QB though.

[Hawktawk]

Nick Foles beat our 35 million guy . But you are correct . Guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won Superbowls . But those type of guys don’t win 7. If this was his swan song Brady was valiant and lucky in the Brady way to even be in it . But the TD pass to Evans traveled 55 yards in the air and he threw for 217 in the second half after a brutal first half at almost 45 years old . I think he should retire now . He’s got nothing to prove to anyone anymore .

[RiverDog]

Nick Foles beat our 35 million guy . But you are correct . Guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won Superbowls . But those type of guys don’t win 7. If this was his swan song Brady was valiant and lucky in the Brady way to even be in it . But the TD pass to Evans traveled 55 yards in the air and he threw for 217 in the second half after a brutal first half at almost 45 years old . I think he should retire now . He’s got nothing to prove to anyone anymore .

"That type of guy" did win 7.

[c_hawkbob]

Did you seriously just attempt to put Tom Brady in the same category as Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson?

[RiverDog]

Did you seriously just attempt to put Tom Brady in the same category as Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson?

Yeah, sort of. At least at one point in his career.

Brady never did squat in college and was a 6th round draft pick. If he had more talent, like an Elway or Manning did, he would have shown it much earlier. He was an athlete that made the absolute most out of his God given gifts and was at the right place at the right time. If I had to pick a baseball player to compare him to, I'd select Pete Rose.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, sort of. At least at one point in his career.

Brady never did squat in college and was a 6th round draft pick. If he had more talent, like an Elway or Manning did, he would have shown it much earlier. He was an athlete that made the absolute most out of his God given gifts and was at the right place at the right time. If I had to pick a baseball player to compare him to, I'd select Pete Rose.

Do you not even bother to look at what Brady did in his career? He was never Dilfer or Brad. Brady had one year on the bench. And only one year under 3000 yards passing.

This is not Trent Dilfer or Brad at all.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2330/tom-brady

You and Northhawk are really underselling Brady by a huge amount. The guy was one of the best for nearly all of his career save for the first two years. Every bit on par with Elway or Manning.

I understand. You don't know Brady's career. You haven't watched him much. He's a boring QB to watch. But this idea he did not perform at a high level for all of his career easily on par with every great QB in history is a false picture that isn't at all supported by his statistics. He's great, absolutely amazing in nearly every metric by which you measure QBs. Efficient, effective, productive, and most important no one is better in the postseason or when the game is on the line.

You and obiken can try to pretend Elway or Manning were better, but they weren't. Brady beat Manning head to head over and over again. Elway would have lost had they squared off. Even today I thought Brady was done, but somehow he brought the game to a tie near the end and almost won at 44 years of age.

Not sure why a guy like you who claims results are everything can't look at what this guy did and admit he's the best to ever do it at his position. He lacks for nothing in any measure, not a single thing. He's literally done it all. MVP. Check. Most passing yards in a season at one point. Check. 50 TDs in a season. Check. Lead the league in passer rating for a season. Check. Thrown to all different types of receivers over his career. Check. Tight games. Check. Big games, Check. He's literally done it all for nearly two decades.

You and Northhawk are making it sound like he's Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson? What a joke and an utter BS analysis. Dilfer and Johnson aren't even in the same ballpark as Brady. Their statistics are not comparable at all. Not even close. Stop making an argument you couldn't come close to backing up with facts.

[Hawktawk]

Did you seriously just attempt to put Tom Brady in the same category as Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson?

Yeah, sort of. At least at one point in his career.

Brady never did squat in college and was a 6th round draft pick. If he had more talent, like an Elway or Manning did, he would have shown it much earlier. He was an athlete that made the absolute most out of his God given gifts and was at the right place at the right time. If I had to pick a baseball player to compare him to, I'd select Pete Rose.

Wow man . Seriously ? He’s been lucky Trent Dilfer for 20 years ? He gets dinged by you for going in the sixth round ? Not being a college star ? Jesus H he’s won 7 Lombardies and holds most meaningful passing records in the postseason . I’m the unhinged one and I’ve always seen you as very level headed but your take on Brady is not reality .

[Old but Slow]

Brady is the most accomplished QB. But GOAT? How can that even be approached? The game has changed too much to make such a judgement. The football itself has changed, as it was once rounder and more difficult to throw. Roughing the passer wasn't really a thing, and receivers could take their lives in their hands to run across the middle because blind-side and clothesline tackles were just part of the game. The game was more run centered with formations like T-formation and single wing. Splitting. receivers out wide was an innovation--remember the lonesome end?

Players like Johnny Unitas changed the game by refining the passing game, and he was the Brady of his day. He wasn't mobile enough to be great in the modern game, but he was a master of that era. Sammy Baugh, Norm Van Brocklin, Y A Tittle all played a different game.

Give Brady credit, marvel at Wilson, Mahomes, and the yoyo at GB, appreciate the greatness and the beauty, but forget ranking them over eras. It is difficult enough to compare quality within a single season, much less the quality over different eras.

GOAT? Why?

[Aseahawkfan]

Brady is the most accomplished QB. But GOAT? How can that even be approached? The game has changed too much to make such a judgement. The football itself has changed, as it was once rounder and more difficult to throw. Roughing the passer wasn't really a thing, and receivers could take their lives in their hands to run across the middle because blind-side and clothesline tackles were just part of the game. The game was more run centered with formations like T-formation and single wing. Splitting. receivers out wide was an innovation--remember the lonesome end?

Players like Johnny Unitas changed the game by refining the passing game, and he was the Brady of his day. He wasn't mobile enough to be great in the modern game, but he was a master of that era. Sammy Baugh, Norm Van Brocklin, Y A Tittle all played a different game.

Give Brady credit, marvel at Wilson, Mahomes, and the yoyo at GB, appreciate the greatness and the beauty, but forget ranking them over eras. It is difficult enough to compare quality within a single season, much less the quality over different eras.

GOAT? Why?

Because he has everything. Elite QB performance numbers. Check. Multiple league MVPs. Check. 15 times Pro Bowl. Check. Beat the best QBs across two decades including Manning and Mahomes. Check. Beat the best defenses including our Legion of Boom and the legendary Ravens D and Pittsburgh. Check. Done it on two separate teams with different players. Check. Put up elite numbers including a truly insane year when he had elite receivers with 5000 yards passing and 50 TDs. Check. And the most important statistic. Won seven Super Bowls and gone to ten as QB.

Brady lacks for nothing on his resume. He has elite passing numbers, played in the salary cap era, returned from a devastating knee injury, and kept performing into his 40s.

To me that is the GOAT QB. It's what you draft a QB to do. Lead your team to Super Bowls and no one has done it better than Brady.

And I still don't like him and I hope he retires this year.

To me you can dislike a guy and still give him his due credit. I don't like Brady. Before he won with Tampa Bay, I might have still argued Montana is better than Brady in the postseason just because I don't like Brady and I like Montana. But damn, seven of ten and every year he's been in the league except his one year on the bench and the year he hammered his knee he's been in the playoffs. He's won the AFC championship game 9 times and the NFC Conference Championship 1 time. He's been in contention every healthy year he's been in the league. I haven't really seen a QB do that as long as Brady. I've been watching football since the late seventies and I have never seen a QB like Tom Brady who has managed to remain competitive as long as Brady has across two decades. You're lucky if a QB remains competitive for 5 years, maybe ten if he's really good, and 15 if he's elite in the modern day. But 20 years of contending. It's just freakish.

[RiverDog]

Brady is the most accomplished QB. But GOAT? How can that even be approached? The game has changed too much to make such a judgement. The football itself has changed, as it was once rounder and more difficult to throw. Roughing the passer wasn't really a thing, and receivers could take their lives in their hands to run across the middle because blind-side and clothesline tackles were just part of the game. The game was more run centered with formations like T-formation and single wing. Splitting. receivers out wide was an innovation--remember the lonesome end?

Players like Johnny Unitas changed the game by refining the passing game, and he was the Brady of his day. He wasn't mobile enough to be great in the modern game, but he was a master of that era. Sammy Baugh, Norm Van Brocklin, Y A Tittle all played a different game.

Give Brady credit, marvel at Wilson, Mahomes, and the yoyo at GB, appreciate the greatness and the beauty, but forget ranking them over eras. It is difficult enough to compare quality within a single season, much less the quality over different eras.

GOAT? Why?

You're preaching the choir, Bro! I swear, we could take the two of our comments, erase the handle, and not be able to determine which post belongs to which one of us.

I'll toss Automatic Otto into that QB mix, too. 90% of the fans nowadays couldn't tell you the teams that those QB's you named played for. People have a tendency to consider only what fits their personal memory when they consider the greatest players of the game.

[Hawktawk]

If it’s about winning it’s not close . But I saw a guy last night who is headed to his 4th conference championship in a row and possibly 3rd Super Bowl in a row . If he stays on this pace I may be retracting my statement in a few years . But as has been said if it’s about wins and also plenty of elite performances with free agency and guys coming and going . Just win baby .

[RiverDog]

If it’s about winning it’s not close...Just win baby .

Mickey Mantle has more World Series home runs, 18, than any other player in the history of baseball. Yogi Berra has won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. If it's all about winning, it's not close.

But no one is going to argue that Mantle or Berra are the GOAT of baseball because it isn't all about playing on a winning team.

[Aseahawkfan]

Mickey Mantle has more World Series home runs, 18, than any other player in the history of baseball. Yogi Berra has won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. If it's all about winning, it's not close.

But no one is going to argue that Mantle or Berra are the GOAT of baseball because it isn't all about playing on a winning team.

That's not even comparable. Yogi and Mantle played on the same team with the same core players for their entire run.

Brady did not. Name all the great players Brady played with over the 20 years? Name them. I want to hear how long they were on the Patriots. Brady was the best player on the Patriots for most of his career and the only constant. No one else was on the Patriots from Brady's first Super Bowl win to his last. Only Belichick was the other constant. Then Brady went and did it again in Tampa with new players.

Brady has the stats and the rings, not just one of the other. That's why Bradshaw was never in the mix or Aikman. Brady has everything. The stats. The rings. The rewards. Everything. The only thing he didn't cap off was the undefeated season. But he is the only QB to lead a team to an undefeated regular season in the 16 game era.

I still cannot believe you rated him with Brady Smith and Trent Dilfer. That's one these most ridiculous ideas I've ever seen you post and you couldn't prove that rubbish no matter how hard you tried.

Well, at least things aren't decided by people talking on a forum. Brady is the GOAT QB because his stats and rings say he is, not the opinion of people on a forum. He will be acknowledged as such football historians and the NFL until someone matches or exceeds what he did.

[RiverDog]

Mickey Mantle has more World Series home runs, 18, than any other player in the history of baseball. Yogi Berra has won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. If it's all about winning, it's not close.

But no one is going to argue that Mantle or Berra are the GOAT of baseball because it isn't all about playing on a winning team.

That's not even comparable. Yogi and Mantle played on the same team with the same core players for their entire run.

I wasn't attempting to compare Yogi and Mantle to Brady. The reason I brought them into the discussion was in response to Hawktalk's suggestion that it ('greatest of all time') was all about winning. If that were the case, you'd have to eliminate Ted Williams from the baseball's GOAT discussion because he never won a World Series.

I still cannot believe you rated him with Brady Smith and Trent Dilfer. That's one these most ridiculous ideas I've ever seen you post and you couldn't prove that rubbish no matter how hard you tried.

I rated him with those guys at the beginning of their careers, not at the end or even the middle. Brady wasn't thought of as a superstar for quite some time into his career when he started accumulating rings with the Patriots. That's the point I was trying to make.

Well, at least things aren't decided by people talking on a forum. Brady is the GOAT QB because his stats and rings say he is, not the opinion of people on a forum. He will be acknowledged as such football historians and the NFL until someone matches or exceeds what he did.

I couldn't give two hoots in hell if Tom Brady or Trent Dilfer is considered the GOAT. It's a fun discussion and I enjoy debating it, but I honestly don't care one way or another. I don't recognize anyone in any sport, whether it be Mohhamad Ali, Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, or whom ever, as being "the greatest of all time" for reasons that I've stated previously.

[Old but Slow]

If forced to choose a GOAT, I might say Brady, but I simply do not think that choosing one makes sense. What automobile is the GOAT? Which actor? The best burrito? Step right up and make your opinion known, and I'll just shake my head indulgently.

[RiverDog]

If forced to choose a GOAT, I might say Brady, but I simply do not think that choosing one makes sense. What automobile is the GOAT? Which actor? The best burrito? Step right up and make your opinion known, and I'll just shake my head indulgently.

I have an idea. Who is the GOAT of Hawkshack posters? It has to be Obs! He never fails to display his impeccable logic!

[Hawktawk]

In football we have the math. It’s undeniable unless your criteria is who throws the sweetest football . That’s an unwinnable argument . But Jesus H 14 divisional wins in 20 years . Russ has 2 in 10. Go on down the line all the one and done QBs . It’ laughable to say Rodgers is better or anyone else really at being a field general leading your team to wins . In football the most important person on most every team is the QB. Brady win Suosrbowls with guys who were 5 years old when he won his first .

[NorthHawk]

It's difficult because it's such a team game.
In Brady's SB wins, those years he was on teams with Defenses no worse than 8th overall.
Of the wins in NE, the defenses were ranked:
6th
1st
3rd
8th
1st
7th
8th (Tampa Bay)

That's a lot of help from the rest of the team and to award the GOAT to someone who has benefited from that over another QB that didn't is a difficult thing to measure.
Sure he has the most SB rings, but he didn't do it alone. He didn't create turnovers, he didn't make goal line stands and he didn't cause teams to punt.
As well, he hasn't needed to carry a team like some other QBs have had to do because he had such a good system and teammates around him.
So is he the best ever? I doubt it, but he's probably in the top 5.

[RiverDog]

In football we have the math. It’s undeniable unless your criteria is who throws the sweetest football . That’s an unwinnable argument . But Jesus H 14 divisional wins in 20 years . Russ has 2 in 10. Go on down the line all the one and done QBs . It’ laughable to say Rodgers is better or anyone else really at being a field general leading your team to wins . In football the most important person on most every team is the QB. Brady win Suosrbowls with guys who were 5 years old when he won his first .

Actually, football is worse on math than other notable sports. In baseball, every hitter has a batting average, RBI, and HR metrics, every pitcher an ERA and W/L record, every infielder a fielding percentage. Basketball measures every individual's performance by scoring average, rebounds, and steals. Player performance in those sports is a lot more quantifiable than in football. Posters laughed at me because I 'compared' Brady to Trent Dilfer. But according to you, Dilfer rates higher than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts because he has a ring and they don't.

Winning is obviously a very big factor in evaluating a football player's performance, and as you say, even more so for a QB as he's the most influential player on the field, especially in this day and age. But it is far from the only metric.

[NorthHawk]

Winning is obviously a very big factor in evaluating a football player's performance, and as you say, even more so for a QB as he's the most influential player on the field, especially in this day and age. But it is far from the only metric.

And it's even harder to distinguish the best between an elite group.

If you are just looking at rings, then is Vince Wilfork the best DT ever? He has the most rings after all. So how do you distinguish between him and Allen Page or Aaron Donald and others?
Choosing between great players in a sport that absolutely requires an excellent supporting cast is impossible to do in my opinion.

[RiverDog]

Looks like he's decided to hang it up:

Tom Brady is retiring from football after 22 seasons in which he won a historic seven Super Bowl titles, sources told ESPN.

Sources said that Brady's decision to retire is based on several factors, including family and health. While less significant, Brady also recognizes that the Buccaneers are likely to undergo significant roster turnover, sources said.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/331 ... ources-say

[c_hawkbob]

Mad respect. don't like him much but I respect his accomplishments.