Russel Okung Given the Boot

[Seahawks4Ever]

Okung was seen at VMAC a few days wearing an orthopedic "boot" on his left foot because he is still suffering from sore toes or toe on his foot. I guess he played on it all of last year. No one can question his toughness.

[RiverDog]

Okung was seen at VMAC a few days wearing an orthopedic "boot" on his left foot because he is still suffering from sore toes or toe on his foot. I guess he played on it all of last year. No one can question his toughness.

I'm not accusing him of anything, but I am not going to characterize Russell Okung as 'tough', not when I saw him limp off the field when he didn't suffer enough contact to pop a pimple. He's been on the DL far too often to earn the 'tough' handle from me.

[PasadenaHawk]

I don't know enough to say whether or not he is tough, just want him back and healthy to start the '14 season.

[Eaglehawk]

He is Samuel Jackson in that horrible movie UNBREAKABLE.

Sorry , but his body will not last much longer at this rate.

We need to get ready to draft someone else at the position.

[Hawk Sista]

Okung is tough. To say otherwise is failing to understand football at the NFL level. I'm sorry - I just don't get it. He is injury prone, for sure, but one simply can't even sniff the outside of the v-mac with cleats on and not be tough.

Here's hoping he get's healthy and we get him some co-workers who can keep us moving forward. Tis the question of the off-season, me thinks. O-Line!

[RiverDog]

Okung is tough. To say otherwise is failing to understand football at the NFL level. I'm sorry - I just don't get it. He is injury prone, for sure, but one simply can't even sniff the outside of the v-mac with cleats on and not be tough.

Here's hoping he get's healthy and we get him some co-workers who can keep us moving forward. Tis the question of the off-season, me thinks. O-Line!

I don't think that the simple fact that they're a player in the NFL qualifies a player as being 'tough.'. Jay Cutler is an NFL player, and I wouldn't call him tough.

As far as Okung goes, none of us knows the degree of pain in which he plays or refuses to play with. I just don't see any evidence that he has played through the degree of pain that would meet my definition of the term 'tough' while I have seen evidence to the contrary, including the amount of time he's spent on the DL.

[Hawk Sista]

I guess we have to agree to disagree, RD. I think Okung is tough, and I think Jay is tough. The latter has a lot of attributes that would irritate the hell out of me if he were my QB - the seeming lack of on the field leadership chief among them. But the dude has played with some major pain and ripped up ligaments and I think the characterization that he is not tough is not fair. He does come off like a bit of jerk, I'll admit.

[c_hawkbob]

Who's tougher:

Jim Marshall, who after a rookie season on the bench started 270 consecutive games over a 20 year career ...

or Mark Schlereth, who suffered through 20 knee surgeries and missed 52 games over a 12 year career?

Don't confuse toughness with availability. I'd say both players were tough as nails in their own right.

[rottweiler]

LOL at this thread's title!!!

First thing I did when I clicked on it was to check the date, just to make sure I wasn't gettin' April Fooled.

Straight-up, stone-cold suhhhhhhh-LICK, Hawkeye Blue mah bro!!!

[RiverDog]

I guess we have to agree to disagree, RD. I think Okung is tough, and I think Jay is tough. The latter has a lot of attributes that would irritate the hell out of me if he were my QB - the seeming lack of on the field leadership chief among them. But the dude has played with some major pain and ripped up ligaments and I think the characterization that he is not tough is not fair. He does come off like a bit of jerk, I'll admit.

I just picked Cutler's name at random. I agree that he might have gotten a bit of a bad rap for his leaving a playoff game a few years ago, and I'm aware of some of the situations he's played through since then. absolutely agree with your opinion of him, too.

When I think of toughness, I think of Matt Hasselbeck sustaining a cracked rib and still playing. They're different sports, but I remember Willis Reed playing on two bum knees in the NBA Championship game, or Kirk Gibson hitting a walk off homer in the World Series, limping around the bases. Steve Largent was hurt so badly he couldn't stand up straight but he still made it out onto the field to hold for an XP. I haven't seen that type of evidence with Okung. Maybe he has played through some pain, maybe he hasn't. But until I see some evidence that contradicts some of my previous observations, ie limping off the field on a non contact play and his frequent trips to the DL, I'm not characterizing him as 'tough.'

[Eaglehawk]

Okung is tough. To say otherwise is failing to understand football at the NFL level. I'm sorry - I just don't get it. He is injury prone, for sure, but one simply can't even sniff the outside of the v-mac with cleats on and not be tough.

Here's hoping he get's healthy and we get him some co-workers who can keep us moving forward. Tis the question of the off-season, me thinks. O-Line!

I didn't say he wasn't tough. I am sure that he plays through some serious pain. Most NFLers do.

I am saying that he misses a third of each season almost, and that can't be a good sign for the long run. He's a gimme to miss another third portion of the season this upcoming season as well IMOL. I hope not mind you, but its just my feeling based on his history.

[HumanCockroach]

Who's tougher:

Jim Marshall, who after a rookie season on the bench started 270 consecutive games over a 20 year career ...

or Mark Schlereth, who suffered through 20 knee surgeries and missed 52 games over a 12 year career?

Don't confuse toughness with availability. I'd say both players were tough as nails in their own right.

This sums it up for me. Durable and tough don't have the same meaning in my book. There are certainly a lot of players that have been both, but IMHO you can be one without the other.

[Eaglehawk]

Who's tougher:

Jim Marshall, who after a rookie season on the bench started 270 consecutive games over a 20 year career ...

or Mark Schlereth, who suffered through 20 knee surgeries and missed 52 games over a 12 year career?

Don't confuse toughness with availability. I'd say both players were tough as nails in their own right.

This sums it up for me. Durable and tough don't have the same meaning in my book. There are certainly a lot of players that have been both, but IMHO you can be one without the other.

Agree with both characterizations.
Most players are tough to one degree or another. Others tougher, others not so tough. But, when you talk about genes and your ability to stay healthy, then that's a whole nother ball of wax. Many times its just your genes and your propensity for one injury or another. Mentally the dude could be tough as anyone, but if your body can't hold up, then you have a long road to hoe.

[Hawk Sista]

I guess we are all essentially saying the same thing...save my pet peave of saying NFL players who don't play damaged aren't tough. I can see the vibe here, and agree with what's been said. As usual, Bob's two examples are perfect.

I'll forever hope that Max, Okung, & Percy remain healthy...& I will never question their heart or toughness.

[NorthHawk]

Who's tougher:

Jim Marshall, who after a rookie season on the bench started 270 consecutive games over a 20 year career ...

or Mark Schlereth, who suffered through 20 knee surgeries and missed 52 games over a 12 year career?

Don't confuse toughness with availability. I'd say both players were tough as nails in their own right.

This sums it up for me. Durable and tough don't have the same meaning in my book. There are certainly a lot of players that have been both, but IMHO you can be one without the other.

Agree with both characterizations.
Most players are tough to one degree or another. Others tougher, others not so tough. But, when you talk about genes and your ability to stay healthy, then that's a whole nother ball of wax. Many times its just your genes and your propensity for one injury or another. Mentally the dude could be tough as anyone, but if your body can't hold up, then you have a long road to hoe.

I think this is correct. The only guys who get to the NFL are extremely tough. It's a prerequisite for success at this level.
They are all extremely competitive as well, so the injuries that cause them to miss games pretty much have to be severe enough to overcome both the toughness and competitiveness.
I have a lot of respect for what they do to their bodies to try to get on the field.

[HumanCockroach]

Okung is tough. To say otherwise is failing to understand football at the NFL level. I'm sorry - I just don't get it. He is injury prone, for sure, but one simply can't even sniff the outside of the v-mac with cleats on and not be tough.

Here's hoping he get's healthy and we get him some co-workers who can keep us moving forward. Tis the question of the off-season, me thinks. O-Line!

I don't think that the simple fact that they're a player in the NFL qualifies a player as being 'tough.'. Jay Cutler is an NFL player, and I wouldn't call him tough.

As far as Okung goes, none of us knows the degree of pain in which he plays or refuses to play with. I just don't see any evidence that he has played through the degree of pain that would meet my definition of the term 'tough' while I have seen evidence to the contrary, including the amount of time he's spent on the DL.

To this I would simply point out that todays NFL 99% of the time it isn't the player "making" that call RD. Pretending like it is isn't in touch with reality on that front. Plenty of players and people on this board, played in a different time and era where the players told the coach they could go, when they shouldn't have been anywhere near the field. I have little doubt left t their own devices the majority of the players would play with a multitude of injuries, but with the way the NFL polices injuries, the investments in players not to mention the long term ramifications, players simply aren't the ones making those calls any longer. Coaches, teams and doctors are...

[RiverDog]

Okung is tough. To say otherwise is failing to understand football at the NFL level. I'm sorry - I just don't get it. He is injury prone, for sure, but one simply can't even sniff the outside of the v-mac with cleats on and not be tough.

Here's hoping he get's healthy and we get him some co-workers who can keep us moving forward. Tis the question of the off-season, me thinks. O-Line!

I don't think that the simple fact that they're a player in the NFL qualifies a player as being 'tough.'. Jay Cutler is an NFL player, and I wouldn't call him tough.

As far as Okung goes, none of us knows the degree of pain in which he plays or refuses to play with. I just don't see any evidence that he has played through the degree of pain that would meet my definition of the term 'tough' while I have seen evidence to the contrary, including the amount of time he's spent on the DL.

To this I would simply point out that todays NFL 99% of the time it isn't the player "making" that call RD. Pretending like it is isn't in touch with reality on that front. Plenty of players and people on this board, played in a different time and era where the players told the coach they could go, when they shouldn't have been anywhere near the field. I have little doubt left t their own devices the majority of the players would play with a multitude of injuries, but with the way the NFL polices injuries, the investments in players not to mention the long term ramifications, players simply aren't the ones making those calls any longer. Coaches, teams and doctors are...

I will grant you that on a lot of occasions, it is the medical staff that is trumping a player's desire to return and keeping them from playing. But 99%? Horsepucky! You're making up numbers.

In a large number of cases, the patient's description of the amount of pain associated with an injury or illness that weighs heavily on the type of treatment or rehab doctors prescribe and the decision to play or not to play. Depending on the specific injury or illness, a player could easily fool a doctor into thinking they are hurt worse than they are. If a player tells a doctor something hurts, the doctor isn't going to tell him "No, it doesn't. Now get your ass back on the field!"

[Eaglehawk]

This isn't your Daddy's NFL. Players may be able to get away with what you said River, but they have a huge disincentive to NOT do that: LONG TERM Money. Sure they get away with it for a few seasons, but eventually I suspect such an attitude catches up with them.
Look how it almost caught up with Harvin until he miraculously recovered as soon as he found out that PC was going to put him on Permanent IR.

[RiverDog]

This isn't your Daddy's NFL. Players may be able to get away with what you said River, but they have a huge disincentive to NOT do that: LONG TERM Money. Sure they get away with it for a few seasons, but eventually I suspect such an attitude catches up with them.
Look how it almost caught up with Harvin until he miraculously recovered as soon as he found out that PC was going to put him on Permanent IR.

I don't disagree at all, and the Harvin case is the most flagrant example of a player staying on IR longer than was medically necessary. There are lots of players that fake injuries to get out of lesser parts of football, such as training camp (DJack) and the Pro Bowl. I don't doubt that the vast majority of players want to come back as soon as the doctor clears them, but pulling a 99% figure out of the air is preposterous. It's impossible to put a fixed percentage on something as subjective as this topic is.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL, yeah sure the 99% number is "subjective" but you the outsider can tell when a players tough or not? Yeah OK Riv whatever you say. ( and for the record, it is indeed the staff that decides when a player goes on IR and that my friend is 100% accurate). Maybe you want the players to continue to lie about the pain they are in or injuries they have, I mean it worked out so well for players and the NFL before, why not just continue, right? SMH you are so incredibly out of touch on this subject I really don't know how to help you with it. EVERY player plays hurt, every single one. The "injury" amount for players that play at that level is also 100%, you're judging injuries you don't or haven't had as not toughing it out, doing something you have never done, and claiming to know when a player is hurt enough to miss time? Seriously? LMFAO.

Only someone without first hand knowledge of what players go through on a day to day basis would claim players aren't really hurt. And only someone that is stuck in the past would claim it's the players making the call about whether the should miss time. The players are told to be honest with the staff, maybe you prefer the lie, but it is a step in the right direction IMHO.

[RiverDog]

Good. You admitted it. The first step in recovery is acceptance. You pulled the 99% claim out of your ass.

[HumanCockroach]

Good. You admitted it. The first step in recovery is acceptance. You pulled the 99% claim out of your ass.

Ok. Now if you can get to the point where you accept that it's the staff making decisions on whether players play or not, can accept that you have no idea what so ever about what it takes to play that game, at that level, with those injuries, we can't start from scratch.

[RiverDog]

Good. You admitted it. The first step in recovery is acceptance. You pulled the 99% claim out of your ass.

Ok. Now if you can get to the point where you accept that it's the staff making decisions on whether players play or not, can accept that you have no idea what so ever about what it takes to play that game, at that level, with those injuries, we can't start from scratch.

I never rejected the argument, just the unsubstantiated level at which you claimed. On many occasions it's the staff. In the case of Percy Harvin, for example, it was not the staff that made the decision, it was Percy Harvin, both when he decided against the advice of the staff to have surgery on his hip and on his impending return.

As far as my not having any idea whatsoever what it takes to play the game, I have no more and no less of an idea than you do.

What I don't think you are recognizing is that on so many injuries and illnesses, a doctor has to rely on subjective information ("tell me where it hurts") that the patient is telling them which they in turn use to base their decision, so to say that decisions made by the staff are theirs and theirs alone is a bit misleading.

[HumanCockroach]

Good. You admitted it. The first step in recovery is acceptance. You pulled the 99% claim out of your ass.

Ok. Now if you can get to the point where you accept that it's the staff making decisions on whether players play or not, can accept that you have no idea what so ever about what it takes to play that game, at that level, with those injuries, we can't start from scratch.

I never rejected the argument, just the unsubstantiated level at which you claimed. On many occasions it's the staff. In the case of Percy Harvin, for example, it was not the staff that made the decision, it was Percy Harvin, both when he decided against the advice of the staff to have surgery on his hip and on his impending return.

As far as my not having any idea whatsoever what it takes to play the game, I have no more and no less of an idea than you do.

What I don't think you are recognizing is that on so many injuries and illnesses, a doctor has to rely on subjective information ("tell me where it hurts") that the patient is telling them which they in turn use to base their decision, so to say that decisions made by the staff are theirs and theirs alone is a bit misleading.

LOL. If you say so RD.

[Hardy Blitzen]

We need to get ready to draft someone else at the position.

Yep. I saw a report that the Hawks are going to go "OT heavy" in the draft in preparation for possibly letting Okung go when his contract is up in 2016 ...

[HumanCockroach]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Floated the idea that they let him walk at the end of his contract 2 seasons ago, and nothing to date has changed my mind on that.

They aren't going to pay him 12 million a year, to play half a season, just aren't going to do it, no matter how good he is in that half of year. Toughness is nice and all, but durability matters in the equation, now if he is willing to play here at that 6-8 million a year range, they'll resign him, but I just don't see that happening.

Hell, I wouldn't lose my mind if they could package Okung and a fourth for a chance to move up and get one of the left tackles available in this draft. In fact I would endorse a move like that ( though I doubt they could pull it off). Maybe our first and Okung plus a fourth for a third and a top pick ( at least then you get the LT at a cheaper rate for several years). Who knows?

[Hardy Blitzen]

With so little depth on the OL right now, I doubt they would dump one of their top two starters -- even if he is injury prone. But if the Hawks add a couple of OL in the draft and Okung has a good 2014 season, his value would climb and your trade idea would be a real possibility for next year.

I saw a story that talked about the Hawks not worrying about re-signing Okung yet because of all of the other guys they need to pay (Thomas, Sherman, etc.) ...

[monkey]

I agree.
It wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit if we do draft heavy OLine, so as to get Okung's eventual replacement here. In fact I expect we will, and would be far more surprised if we don't.
This year especially since the draft is just loaded with talent on the line, (and at WR), we really should be able to fill our teams two biggest needs.

Even if we have to use our last three draft picks on O-Line to fill our needs, I think we will, the draft is DEEP for O-Line this year.
I see a bunch of future starters in the draft that are projected to be taken 4th round and later.

Don't be surprised if we take a LB as well, as we have three coming to the end of their contracts. We might even take Shazier in the first if he drops to us, while still easily filling our needs at WR and O-Line later in the draft.

[Hardy Blitzen]

I agree on Shazier. If he slips to 32, the Hawks probably would love to get him (and then settle their OL/WR needs later) ...

Rob Staton talked about him today:
http://seahawksdraftblog.com/ryan-shazi ... s-wildcard

And here's that story that talks about paying the other guys, with a great stat on Okung:

He has played in just 45 of 64 possible games in his first four seasons – a far cry from the iron man that predecessor Walter Jones was (missed eight games in his first 11 seasons).

http://www.examiner.com/article/seahawk ... -blueprint

[RiverDog]

Not sure if it was here or in another forum that we got into a discussion about extending Okung's contract this season. We'd be certifiably nuts if we extended it this season, with his injury history. IMO he's going to have to turn in a Pro Bowl season if he wants to stay on the team in 2015. We simply have too many fish to fry with Sherman, Thomas, and Wilson to resolve to afford to be putting money down on the come with Okung.

[NorthHawk]

Not sure if it was here or in another forum that we got into a discussion about extending Okung's contract this season. We'd be certifiably nuts if we extended it this season, with his injury history. IMO he's going to have to turn in a Pro Bowl season if he wants to stay on the team in 2015. We simply have too many fish to fry with Sherman, Thomas, and Wilson to resolve to afford to be putting money down on the come with Okung.

It depends on what the extension was.
If it were for the same $$ then I agree, but if it was extended for a more reasonable number, it might work out.
I'm sure his agent won't settle for less than market value, so I suspect your comment is correct but cap wizards can make things friendly if there is a will on both sides.

[RiverDog]

It will be interesting to see what the draft brings. If what the pundits are saying is true and this draft turns out to be knee deep in OL talent and we end up with a good bookend, it could have an impact on how we approach Okung's status. Of course, the best of both worlds would be if Okung shakes off these various injuries and has a solid season and we end up with a good rookie OT.

[monkey]

It will be interesting to see what the draft brings. If what the pundits are saying is true and this draft turns out to be knee deep in OL talent and we end up with a good bookend, it could have an impact on how we approach Okung's status. Of course, the best of both worlds would be if Okung shakes off these various injuries and has a solid season and we end up with a good rookie OT.

I'm hoping that is exactly what happens, and won't be shocked if it does.
Okung has had a lot of injuries, that's absolutely true, but what he has not had is, a poor attitude, or bad work ethic or off-the-field troubles or contract complaints or...anything else negative AT ALL!

The truth is, if he can just get past the injuries, the guy is a VERY solid tackle, one of the better ones around right now, and is a terrific teammate. I would MUCH rather the team resigns him if at all possible, and of course, if he can prove to stay healthy.
I like Okung as a player A LOT. I don't think he's hit his ceiling as far as his talent is concerned yet either, partly due to the injuries he's sustained that have held him back.
Imagine if he can put together some healthy seasons just how good he really could be!

I'd much rather keep him, and use whoever we draft, on the other side, and at guard. I really hope!

[RiverDog]

It will be interesting to see what the draft brings. If what the pundits are saying is true and this draft turns out to be knee deep in OL talent and we end up with a good bookend, it could have an impact on how we approach Okung's status. Of course, the best of both worlds would be if Okung shakes off these various injuries and has a solid season and we end up with a good rookie OT.

I'm hoping that is exactly what happens, and won't be shocked if it does.
Okung has had a lot of injuries, that's absolutely true, but what he has not had is, a poor attitude, or bad work ethic or off-the-field troubles or contract complaints or...anything else negative AT ALL!

The truth is, if he can just get past the injuries, the guy is a VERY solid tackle, one of the better ones around right now, and is a terrific teammate. I would MUCH rather the team resigns him if at all possible, and of course, if he can prove to stay healthy.
I like Okung as a player A LOT. I don't think he's hit his ceiling as far as his talent is concerned yet either, partly due to the injuries he's sustained that have held him back.
Imagine if he can put together some healthy seasons just how good he really could be!

I'd much rather keep him, and use whoever we draft, on the other side, and at guard. I really hope!

Okung's being injury prone is one of the least predictable occurrence one could imagine. He started something like 47 straight games at Okie State, and I agree that there isn't an attitude question like there is with Harvin. Everything I've ever heard about him has been all positive. And you're right, although he's no Walt Jones, he's a damn good OT when he's right. He does have some challenges, though, as he draws too many penalties and hasn't always been solid in pass protection. The one full season that he has played he made the Pro Bowl.

[Hawk Sista]

I know most of y'all have heard this once, but I met him at the VMAC and I loved him. Maybe that's part of my problem. He was a gentle giant and acknowledged his injury trouble. I said something stupid about the big shoes he had to fill (big Walt) and I was rooting for him -I told him to work hard & heal fast. He said yes ma'am, that he would. (I read several articles about him when he was drafted & wanted him to know I was aware of who he was.. And how important Lat is (2nd behind QB IMHO). He said something like I'm following the best LT in the nfl and I am working hard to fill those shoes. He had a noticeable limp as he walked to his car. Quite noticeable -startlingly so.. and he played the next day. And he played well. He was one of the last guys to leave the VMAC. The o-line left last and he was last of them. He said he was doing everything in his power to get ready.

Then I chatted with pat Ruel the asst. oline coach. Keep in mind, it was family appreciation day and I snuck back there and was hangin out like I was supposed to be there. Pat said that Okung was a real leader and they were unsure how he would last the season (this was before the Zona game the year t-jack started... Pete's second year.) I told Pat to DRAFT FAT and he put his arm around me and said he wanted to keep me.

So this is the story about why I would suck as a GM, and why I love Russell Okung.

[monkey]

I know most of y'all have heard this once, but I met him at the VMAC and I loved him. Maybe that's part of my problem. He was a gentle giant and acknowledged his injury trouble. I said something stupid about the big shoes he had to fill (big Walt) and I was rooting for him -I told him to work hard & heal fast. He said yes ma'am, that he would. (I read several articles about him when he was drafted & wanted him to know I was aware of who he was.. And how important Lat is (2nd behind QB IMHO). He said something like I'm following the best LT in the nfl and I am working hard to fill those shoes. He had a noticeable limp as he walked to his car. Quite noticeable -startlingly so.. and he played the next day. And he played well. He was one of the last guys to leave the VMAC. The o-line left last and he was last of them. He said he was doing everything in his power to get ready.

Then I chatted with pat Ruel the asst. oline coach. Keep in mind, it was family appreciation day and I snuck back there and was hangin out like I was supposed to be there. Pat said that Okung was a real leader and they were unsure how he would last the season (this was before the Zona game the year t-jack started... Pete's second year.) I told Pat to DRAFT FAT and he put his arm around me and said he wanted to keep me.

So this is the story about why I would suck as a GM, and why I love Russell Okung.

Yeah, you're confirming what I hear from literally every source literally everyone who talks to him.
Russell Okung is the kind of guy who ANYONE would want on their team...heck, anyone would want to date their daughter.
Seriously, he's a great, and humble guy.

I'm just rooting for him about as hard as I have ever rooted for anyone to get the injury stuff worked out, because if character counts for anything, then Russell Okung is worth a long contract.

[NorthHawk]

The sad thing about his injuries is they were by strange occurrences.
Getting rolled up on your ankle twice by your own teammates and tearing a Pec when being thrown to the ground are not common.
Now he has a toe issue which isn't uncommon. I hope this is finally healed and he can get a string of injury free years going even if history shows us it's unlikely.