Just have to vent a bit

[EntiatHawk]

Lol well I am going to tick you off because I believe in almost every one of the 7 on your list. Alex Smith is a mediocore QB, but he put up a QB rating of 102.7 through 8 starts specifically because he had a great D at his back. He was on pace for 25 TDs and 10 ints. Having a great D meant there was never much pressure on him to win any game. He could make safe throws or go three and out at any time in almost any game and still win (and I saw it many times). It's almost hard for me to belueve that you'd debate the value of a great D to a QB. It is immeasurable.

That said, Wilson can make plays that win games. He is a franchise QB. But Andrew Luck to me is the best young QB in the NFL. He makes throws and reads other QBs don't and he has done more with less than any other young QB IMO.

Future I appreciate your view from the outside looking in, but that is not completely true.

Luck does not make better reads than RW, In fact Wilson extends his play longer has had to make reads quicker due to a poorer o-line. Luck had the benefit of Reggie Wayne and then TY Hilton. With as much as I like our WR's none are Reggie Wayne yet. Luck also had his TE from college. Wilson has played with developing WR's and they have all done very well.

Wilson has shown he can lead the team and play with what he is given and not make very many mistakes.

If we are going to say who may be better, we better enter Nick Foles, he is the only one that has out performed RW.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?pla ... Nick+Foles

[HumanCockroach]

Good lord Future, you use random "bad" games during the regular season ( very few for Wilson and a hell of a lot for Luck) and then call those comparable to what "matters" according to you to define "clutch". What has Wilson done in the post seasons? What has Luck done in the postseason? The debate is stupid, because "clutch" players raise the level of there game when it matters most, and Luck simply hasn't done it ( barring a KC game he put himself in the position of having to do something, and only did so after KC lost 5 starters and several backups).

Wilson hasn't HAD a bad "important" game, Luck has had several. Pretty open and closed when taking into account what "matters" maybe you should have thought of that PRIOR to making the claim that only SB wins matter ( FYI Wilson has one of the top ten ALL TIME QB ratings in a SB. Go figure, and he did it without a running game).

Feel free to insert whatever excuse you feel necessary to assert he had an easy time because of....... in the SB. I know it's coming.

[burrrton]

So because they are so similar, the people that are posting that RW is clearly so much better in tbe clutch than Luck are making ridiculous assertions, right??

Debatable, but not nearly as ridiculous as yours, which is why I responded.

[monkey]

The idea that RW is more clutch than Luck is ridiculous.

No, what's ridiculous is that you felt compelled to make such a stupid statement.

Fourth-quarter comebacks: RW 8, Luck 8.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... active.htm

Game-winning drives: RW 10, Luck 11.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... active.htm

I'm not going to go back and forth about something as poorly defined as "clutch", but to imply they're not comparable is preposterous. It's generally considered one of Wilson's defining traits, and finding a game or two where he couldn't pull it out doesn't change that.

Thanks for saving me the trouble Burrrton! Great post. I love the fact that all the statistics and facts are on OUR side. We can actually point to WHAT HAPPENED to prove our case. The only thing critics have of Wilson is what if scenarios and a big imagination. They have to point to subjective statements that cannot be proven or dis-proven, such as Futurites latest subjective line about "Luck makes better reads than Wilson." 1. PROVE IT! 2. According to who? You? You're clearly not an expert.

If Lynch hadn't run for over 100 compared to Gore's 16 there is no way Seattle wins that game. None.

Bull sh*t!
Not sure if you noticed but the Seahawks outscored the Niners 20-7 in the second half. From the second half on, the score was only close because the Seahawks had to come from a touchdown behind, but the game itself wasn't close at all!
The Seahawks BADLY outplayed the Niners in the second half, Colin Kaepernick's three turnovers in the second half attest to that.

[Futureite]

Good lord Future, you use random "bad" games during the regular season ( very few for Wilson and a hell of a lot for Luck) and then call those comparable to what "matters" according to you to define "clutch". What has Wilson done in the post seasons? What has Luck done in the postseason? The debate is stupid, because "clutch" players raise the level of there game when it matters most, and Luck simply hasn't done it ( barring a KC game he put himself in the position of having to do something, and only did so after KC lost 5 starters and several backups).

Wilson hasn't HAD a bad "important" game, Luck has had several. Pretty open and closed when taking into account what "matters" maybe you should have thought of that PRIOR to making the claim that only SB wins matter ( FYI Wilson has one of the top ten ALL TIME QB ratings in a SB. Go figure, and he did it without a running game).

Feel free to insert whatever excuse you feel necessary to assert he had an easy time because of....... in the SB. I know it's coming.

Lol whatever dude. You are not going to bait me into bashing Wilson. I like what he has done and he is outstanding. He has also proven he can win games in the clutch and lead his team. But I am sorry, he did not have to do any of that in the postseason. He was shaky in the playoffs and the only clutch throw he made the entire postseason came on a free play on 4th down with no pressure. He was up 29-0 in the SB before he had even thrown a TD or 100 yds, you bring that game up as an example?

Luck is light yrs better than any of the young QBs playing real QB; ie, standing in the pocket reading a D, going through his progressions, making big NFL throws in tight windows, footwork, preparation, etc. He is better and there is 0% chance he doesn't win a SB with Seattle. Cut the BS he BEAT RW with a team that is clearly inferior!

Funny thing is as much as you all know I love Kap's game, here I am admitting Luck is better (even though Kap has better stats in several areas) but you are galled I could say he is better than RW too. Enough with the stats. Alex Smith is not far behind any of these guysin QB rating, win% over the past couple yrs and we can all admit he is just an average QB. Should I post all of his 4th qtr comebacks in 2011? Dude never had to do what Luck does game in and game out!

[monkey]

Luck is light yrs better than any of the young QBs playing real QB; ie, standing in the pocket reading a D, going through his progressions, making big NFL throws in tight windows, footwork, preparation, etc.

More subjectivity...because that's all you've got.
There's not one statistic that you can find that backs that claim, you know why?
Because there aren't any, because the claim is pure bullsh*t!

In the end, this debate always breaks down to the same thing, Colts and Luck fans arguing their opinion, while Seahawks and Wilson fans throwing out tons of numbers and facts.

[Futureite]

Luck is light yrs better than any of the young QBs playing real QB; ie, standing in the pocket reading a D, going through his progressions, making big NFL throws in tight windows, footwork, preparation, etc.

More subjectivity...because that's all you've got.
There's not one statistic that you can find that backs that claim, you know why?
Because there aren't any, because the claim is pure bullsh*t!

It's all subjective! I made that point at the beginning. Seriously, over the past 3 yrs Alex Smith has posted a QB rating if 94.5, has a starting record of 30-9, and put up over 30 pts TWICE in the playoffs with mediocore WRs. He had 6 4th qtr cime from behind wins in 2011. I can make an argument using those numbers that he is as good as almost any QB in the league. Where would you rank him?? He is AVERAGE IMO. You take away his D and run game and 9 times out of 10 he is not going to beat you. But anyone could call me out and sight the numbers and call me an idiot, and many use to to exactly that on SFgate.com.

How can you measure Marshawn Lynch's effect on a game with stats? Teams load the box and take so much pressure off any QB behind him. It's a fact, whether he runs for 15 yds or 200. How can a stat measure all the short fields your D gives to RW? How many did he get in the 4th QTR alone in the NFCCCG and how many pts did he put up from them?? s*** it's not cherry picking when it happens consistently. Yes, he is very good. He also gets a lot of help that Andrew Luck does not get.

What happened when the two played each other?? What happened in the 4th? Luck took over and won the game, period.

[Anthony]

Funny Future,

Because Colin Kaepernick has the same advantages that Russell Wilson had and Wilson still had more passing yards, more TDs, fewer interceptions, higher completion percentage, higher passer rating, higher yards per attempt in slightly fewer pass attempts. All this despite playing behind what was an absolutley terrible offensive line for most of the year while Kaep played behind one of the best units.

Your guilty of one of the classis logical fallacy's projecting what you can't know. Yes Wilson has a stronger defense and running game than Luck. The fact remains that Wilson has outplayed Luck. To claim Luck has been better than Wilson is to make the assumption that Wilson would be as inefficient as Luck if they switched places. But the problem is you have nothing to base this on.

Here are actual facts.

When Wilson has been asked to throw the ball 30 times or more:

287 ypg 67% completion rate 5.2% TD rate 1.2 % INT rate 8.6 yards per attempt.

Lucks stats:

256 ypg 57% completion rate 3.8% TD rate 2.3% INT rate 6.8 yards per attempt.


For your assumption to be true Wilson's numbers would get markedly worse in games where he's forced to throw to win the game. The reality is that they actually get slightly better. Your logic doesn't work Future.

Look Luck is great and personally I'm still 50/50 on who will have the better career, but the truth is Wilson has outplayed all the 2012 rookie QBs and the 2011 rookie QBs over the past two years.

First, I have to retract one statement. I re-read the 6 or 7 assumptions that he posted and I do not agree with all of them.

Second, if you want to discuss Kap (remember, I did not bring him up), Wilson HAS had a bigger advantage in some areas at times. You in fact were accurate in.our assessment of WR after Crab's injury; I was wrong. Kap started the yr by losing nearly every receiver he had the prior yr (Ginn, Moss, Crab, Walker) and the ones that were left were not NFL caliber other than Boldin. RW threw to the exact sane set of WRs to start the yr, and we have already seen how a similar disruption in chemistry effeceted even a dominant QB like Tom Brady.

Following that point, in games where Lynch struggled I see the exact same issues with Wilson as Kap. Look at RW's stats in the Houston game or the Cardinals home game. Look at his 1-11 start in game 1 V us, or how hard he was struggling in the NFCCCG before Lynch did what Lynch normally does broke out. If Lynch hadn't run for over 100 compared to Gore's 16 there is no way Seattle wins that game. None.

So, I am taking what I read here with a grain of salt. Everyone knows Wilson had been great at times. Most people also readily admit that the opposing team's D gameplan begins and is primarily focused on stopping Marshawn Lynch. This is obviously an immeasurable advantage for any QB, as it frees up playaction and so many other options in the pass game. In contrast, when teams play the Colts the D gameplan centers around Andrew Luck.

Speaking of that last comment, what happened when Seattle played the Colts? And the 49ers played the Colts? Seems to ne like Andrew Luck beat defenses late in the 4th. The idea that RW is more clutch than Luck is ridiculous. Luck took over V Seattle in the 4th, Wilson threw 3 straight incompletions and a pick on 4th down with the ball in his hands and a chance to win in the 4th. Luck had 7 4th qtr comeback wins in his eookie yr alobe, Wilson.has 8 total, and 1 of them is the Fail Mary game.

I would take Luck above ANY QB right now, not just RW.

Dude you keep coming back to name recognition and provide not facts to support it. I have shown were you are wrong, Luck has more around him then WIlson, Deal with it. All you are doing is providing crap not facts try facts, until then be wrong. Rw has a better compl %, td/int, YPA, and doe sit behind the worst o-lien in the league with no name WR. Deal with it WIlson right now is better than luck period

[Anthony]

Lol well I am going to tick you off because I believe in almost every one of the 7 on your list. Alex Smith is a mediocore QB, but he put up a QB rating of 102.7 through 8 starts specifically because he had a great D at his back. He was on pace for 25 TDs and 10 ints. Having a great D meant there was never much pressure on him to win any game. He could make safe throws or go three and out at any time in almost any game and still win (and I saw it many times). It's almost hard for me to belueve that you'd debate the value of a great D to a QB. It is immeasurable.

That said, Wilson can make plays that win games. He is a franchise QB. But Andrew Luck to me is the best young QB in the NFL. He makes throws and reads other QBs don't and he has done more with less than any other young QB IMO.

And yet as has been shown you are wrong luck has had just as much if not more than Wilson and other than yards has done way less with it. Let me remind you Their defense also top 10 in scoring, their o-line ranked way higher in pass blocking than ours, their RB run game just as good as ours, their WR way better than ours.

Their D is nowhere in the same universe as yours. Donald Brown and what's face they traded for combined are not on the same planet as Lynch. Judging QB play is subjective. You have plenty of ammo to argue for your guy. But I can't find too many reasons to compare the Colts' run game or their D to yours. I mean their D got torched up and down the field in both playoff games last yr. If you can seriously say with a straight face that Wilson would have advanced tbe Colts further than Luck did, more power to you.

They are both pretty damn good so you have to expect people will argue both guys vehemently depending on their allegience.

Dud I never said theirs was better, just that it is not as bad as you think. They were top 10 in scoring deal with it, it is a fact, and they could have been better if Luck did not throw so many ints. As to the run game again names taken out their run game wi8ht9out QB pay was as productive as ours and the facts and stats show it. deal with it, After that Luck has the way better o-line and WR. Sorry dude you can rant all you want but the facts show Luck has more around him then Wilson and Wilson is better right now. Deal with it.

[Anthony]

Funny Future,

Because Colin Kaepernick has the same advantages that Russell Wilson had and Wilson still had more passing yards, more TDs, fewer interceptions, higher completion percentage, higher passer rating, higher yards per attempt in slightly fewer pass attempts. All this despite playing behind what was an absolutley terrible offensive line for most of the year while Kaep played behind one of the best units.

Your guilty of one of the classis logical fallacy's projecting what you can't know. Yes Wilson has a stronger defense and running game than Luck. The fact remains that Wilson has outplayed Luck. To claim Luck has been better than Wilson is to make the assumption that Wilson would be as inefficient as Luck if they switched places. But the problem is you have nothing to base this on.

Here are actual facts.

When Wilson has been asked to throw the ball 30 times or more:

287 ypg 67% completion rate 5.2% TD rate 1.2 % INT rate 8.6 yards per attempt.

Lucks stats:

256 ypg 57% completion rate 3.8% TD rate 2.3% INT rate 6.8 yards per attempt.


For your assumption to be true Wilson's numbers would get markedly worse in games where he's forced to throw to win the game. The reality is that they actually get slightly better. Your logic doesn't work Future.

Look Luck is great and personally I'm still 50/50 on who will have the better career, but the truth is Wilson has outplayed all the 2012 rookie QBs and the 2011 rookie QBs over the past two years.

Great posts but keep in mind Future is not using facts, he has none, all he is using is his mouth.

[Anthony]

Funny Future,

Because Colin Kaepernick has the same advantages that Russell Wilson had and Wilson still had more passing yards, more TDs, fewer interceptions, higher completion percentage, higher passer rating, higher yards per attempt in slightly fewer pass attempts. All this despite playing behind what was an absolutley terrible offensive line for most of the year while Kaep played behind one of the best units.

Your guilty of one of the classis logical fallacy's projecting what you can't know. Yes Wilson has a stronger defense and running game than Luck. The fact remains that Wilson has outplayed Luck. To claim Luck has been better than Wilson is to make the assumption that Wilson would be as inefficient as Luck if they switched places. But the problem is you have nothing to base this on.

Here are actual facts.

When Wilson has been asked to throw the ball 30 times or more:

287 ypg 67% completion rate 5.2% TD rate 1.2 % INT rate 8.6 yards per attempt.

Lucks stats:

256 ypg 57% completion rate 3.8% TD rate 2.3% INT rate 6.8 yards per attempt.


For your assumption to be true Wilson's numbers would get markedly worse in games where he's forced to throw to win the game. The reality is that they actually get slightly better. Your logic doesn't work Future.

Look Luck is great and personally I'm still 50/50 on who will have the better career, but the truth is Wilson has outplayed all the 2012 rookie QBs and the 2011 rookie QBs over the past two years.

First, I have to retract one statement. I re-read the 6 or 7 assumptions that he posted and I do not agree with all of them.

Second, if you want to discuss Kap (remember, I did not bring him up), Wilson HAS had a bigger advantage in some areas at times. You in fact were accurate in.our assessment of WR after Crab's injury; I was wrong. Kap started the yr by losing nearly every receiver he had the prior yr (Ginn, Moss, Crab, Walker) and the ones that were left were not NFL caliber other than Boldin. RW threw to the exact sane set of WRs to start the yr, and we have already seen how a similar disruption in chemistry effeceted even a dominant QB like Tom Brady.

Following that point, in games where Lynch struggled I see the exact same issues with Wilson as Kap. Look at RW's stats in the Houston game or the Cardinals home game. Look at his 1-11 start in game 1 V us, or how hard he was struggling in the NFCCCG before Lynch did what Lynch normally does broke out. If Lynch hadn't run for over 100 compared to Gore's 16 there is no way Seattle wins that game. None.

So, I am taking what I read here with a grain of salt. Everyone knows Wilson had been great at times. Most people also readily admit that the opposing team's D gameplan begins and is primarily focused on stopping Marshawn Lynch. This is obviously an immeasurable advantage for any QB, as it frees up playaction and so many other options in the pass game. In contrast, when teams play the Colts the D gameplan centers around Andrew Luck.

Speaking of that last comment, what happened when Seattle played the Colts? And the 49ers played the Colts? Seems to ne like Andrew Luck beat defenses late in the 4th. The idea that RW is more clutch than Luck is ridiculous. Luck took over V Seattle in the 4th, Wilson threw 3 straight incompletions and a pick on 4th down with the ball in his hands and a chance to win in the 4th. Luck had 7 4th qtr comeback wins in his eookie yr alobe, Wilson.has 8 total, and 1 of them is the Fail Mary game.

I would take Luck above ANY QB right now, not just RW.

I am glad you would take luck over any QB right now, shows how blind by draft positioning you are. by the way thanks for saying luck had 7, WIlson 8 so Wilson was better thanks.

[Anthony]

The idea that RW is more clutch than Luck is ridiculous.

No, what's ridiculous is that you felt compelled to make such a stupid statement.

Fourth-quarter comebacks: RW 8, Luck 8.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... active.htm

Game-winning drives: RW 10, Luck 11.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... active.htm

I'm not going to go back and forth about something as poorly defined as "clutch", but to imply they're not comparable is preposterous. It's generally considered one of Wilson's defining traits, and finding a game or two where he couldn't pull it out doesn't change that.

Agreed especially when luck did not pull them all out either, and it was Luck and his Ints that allowed some of those comebacks, he does not throw Ints and there is no comeback to make. That is the biggest difference with Wilson it is rarely his fault they need to comeback with Luck 50% of the time it is.

[Anthony]

The idea that RW is more clutch than Luck is ridiculous.

No, what's ridiculous is that you felt compelled to make such a stupid statement.

Fourth-quarter comebacks: RW 8, Luck 8.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... active.htm

Game-winning drives: RW 10, Luck 11.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... active.htm

I'm not going to go back and forth about something as poorly defined as "clutch", but to imply they're not comparable is preposterous. It's generally considered one of Wilson's defining traits, and finding a game or two where he couldn't pull it out doesn't change that.

Exactly. So because they are so similar, the people that are posting that RW is clearly so much better in tbe clutch than Luck are making ridiculous assertions, right?? You posted the stat right there that proves it.

That is because all your are looking at is "clutch" play, what about the rest, if you look at that then Wilson is clearly better. You problem is you want to cherry pick things that help you case, and ignore the stuff that doe snot. Sorry fact show right now Wilson is better.

[Anthony]

Good lord Future, you use random "bad" games during the regular season ( very few for Wilson and a hell of a lot for Luck) and then call those comparable to what "matters" according to you to define "clutch". What has Wilson done in the post seasons? What has Luck done in the postseason? The debate is stupid, because "clutch" players raise the level of there game when it matters most, and Luck simply hasn't done it ( barring a KC game he put himself in the position of having to do something, and only did so after KC lost 5 starters and several backups).

Wilson hasn't HAD a bad "important" game, Luck has had several. Pretty open and closed when taking into account what "matters" maybe you should have thought of that PRIOR to making the claim that only SB wins matter ( FYI Wilson has one of the top ten ALL TIME QB ratings in a SB. Go figure, and he did it without a running game).

Feel free to insert whatever excuse you feel necessary to assert he had an easy time because of....... in the SB. I know it's coming.

Agreed Luck had 7 ints this year in the playoffs, causing his defense to be on the files over 72 minutes out of 120. Any defense would give up points after being on the field that long. He causes most of his comebacks himself with his Ints. They are not having to comeback because they defense is bad, or the other team is that much better, its because he spots them points, filed position, and time with his ints.

[Anthony]

Good lord Future, you use random "bad" games during the regular season ( very few for Wilson and a hell of a lot for Luck) and then call those comparable to what "matters" according to you to define "clutch". What has Wilson done in the post seasons? What has Luck done in the postseason? The debate is stupid, because "clutch" players raise the level of there game when it matters most, and Luck simply hasn't done it ( barring a KC game he put himself in the position of having to do something, and only did so after KC lost 5 starters and several backups).

Wilson hasn't HAD a bad "important" game, Luck has had several. Pretty open and closed when taking into account what "matters" maybe you should have thought of that PRIOR to making the claim that only SB wins matter ( FYI Wilson has one of the top ten ALL TIME QB ratings in a SB. Go figure, and he did it without a running game).

Feel free to insert whatever excuse you feel necessary to assert he had an easy time because of....... in the SB. I know it's coming.

Lol whatever dude. You are not going to bait me into bashing Wilson. I like what he has done and he is outstanding. He has also proven he can win games in the clutch and lead his team. But I am sorry, he did not have to do any of that in the postseason. He was shaky in the playoffs and the only clutch throw he made the entire postseason came on a free play on 4th down with no pressure. He was up 29-0 in the SB before he had even thrown a TD or 100 yds, you bring that game up as an example?

Luck is light yrs better than any of the young QBs playing real QB; ie, standing in the pocket reading a D, going through his progressions, making big NFL throws in tight windows, footwork, preparation, etc. He is better and there is 0% chance he doesn't win a SB with Seattle. Cut the BS he BEAT RW with a team that is clearly inferior!

Funny thing is as much as you all know I love Kap's game, here I am admitting Luck is better (even though Kap has better stats in several areas) but you are galled I could say he is better than RW too. Enough with the stats. Alex Smith is not far behind any of these guysin QB rating, win% over the past couple yrs and we can all admit he is just an average QB. Should I post all of his 4th qtr comebacks in 2011? Dude never had to do what Luck does game in and game out!

Dude you can try to BS your way out, but like you always do you made a statement that factually and statistically was wrong, way wrong. Now you are trying the whole real QB thing the fact Luck had almost 400 yards rushing does not matter much to you. By the way hate to tell you 75% of Wilsons passes were form the pocket and he had a 64+% complet % on them which was way better than lucks. So go try some other BS. You want to cut the crap stop your mouth, look at the facts and admit your wrong,. Wilson as of now is the better QB period.

By the way clearly inferior lets lo0ok at that

Defense our #1 in scoring, theirs #9 Answer Sea by some
Rb they avg 4.1 YPC for non QB carries we avg 4.1, They avg 17 less RB rushing yards per game then us and we avg 4 more attempts...sorry no clearly better Answer push
Their o-=line ranked 6th in pass blocking ours 32 Answer indy
They have a HOF wr, and wr in the top 20 , our best was well under 30 and no HOF Answer INDY

Hmm so let see- we win 1, Indy wins 2, 1 is a push, Even if I say we win RB it is still 2-2 and there for Luck did not have an inferior team. So like I said spread your BS someplace else, because here you are wrong. Wilson is better than luck right now period.

[monkey]

What happened when the two played each other?? What happened in the 4th? Luck took over and won the game, period.

This might be the single stupidest thing you've written (and that's saying something!)
Luck didn't face Wilson, and never has and never will. Why?
BECAUSE HE FACED THE SEAHAWKS DEFENSE!!!
The two QB's don't play head to head...This isn't a gunfight, or a boxing match, it's FOOTBALL!!! The two QB's don't get to play against each other one on one.

What Andrew Luck did to the Seahawks defense, what the Indianapolis Colts TEAM did to the Seattle Seahawks TEAM, once, in one regular season game, on the road, after the Seahawks had just pulled off a huge comeback win on the road the week before, going to 4-0 for the first time EVER, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with comparing the two side by side!
That's such a ludicrous argument that I feel silly for even responding to it.

[Anthony]

Luck is light yrs better than any of the young QBs playing real QB; ie, standing in the pocket reading a D, going through his progressions, making big NFL throws in tight windows, footwork, preparation, etc.

More subjectivity...because that's all you've got.
There's not one statistic that you can find that backs that claim, you know why?
Because there aren't any, because the claim is pure bullsh*t!

It's all subjective! I made that point at the beginning. Seriously, over the past 3 yrs Alex Smith has posted a QB rating if 94.5, has a starting record of 30-9, and put up over 30 pts TWICE in the playoffs with mediocore WRs. He had 6 4th qtr cime from behind wins in 2011. I can make an argument using those numbers that he is as good as almost any QB in the league. Where would you rank him?? He is AVERAGE IMO. You take away his D and run game and 9 times out of 10 he is not going to beat you. But anyone could call me out and sight the numbers and call me an idiot, and many use to to exactly that on SFgate.com.

How can you measure Marshawn Lynch's effect on a game with stats? Teams load the box and take so much pressure off any QB behind him. It's a fact, whether he runs for 15 yds or 200. How can a stat measure all the short fields your D gives to RW? How many did he get in the 4th QTR alone in the NFCCCG and how many pts did he put up from them?? s*** it's not cherry picking when it happens consistently. Yes, he is very good. He also gets a lot of help that Andrew Luck does not get.

What happened when the two played each other?? What happened in the 4th? Luck took over and won the game, period.

So let me see you are now using Smith to make a useless point, we are not talking about Smith, try staying on subject, We are talking about the FACT that Wilson is better than Luck right now, period. All the rest of you BS is exactly that BS. Luck plays with a HOF WR, and another in the top 20, Wilson does not have that, Luck plays with a top 10 pass blocking o-line Wilson 32nd. Luck has a top 10 scoring defense, so does Wilson I guess they both are helped their, So how much doe shaving a top 10 pass blocking o-line and HOF wr and WR in the top 20 help Luck. answer a lot. So nice of you to ignore those facts. Like I said what few facts you use are cherry picked and easily showed to be that. Luck has as much support if not more than Wilson, and you can add Luck has an easier schedule than Wilson by far.

[Anthony]

What happened when the two played each other?? What happened in the 4th? Luck took over and won the game, period.

This might be the single stupidest thing you've written (and that's saying something!)
Luck didn't face Wilson, and never has and never will. Why?
BECAUSE HE FACED THE SEAHAWKS DEFENSE!!!
The two QB's don't play head to head...This isn't a gunfight, or a boxing match, it's FOOTBALL!!! The two QB's don't get to play against each other one on one.

What Andrew Luck did to the Seahawks defense, what the Indianapolis Colts TEAM did to the Seattle Seahawks TEAM, once, in one regular season game, on the road, after the Seahawks had just pulled off a huge comeback win on the road the week before, going to 4-0 for the first time EVER, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with comparing the two side by side!
That's such a ludicrous argument that I feel silly for even responding to it.

Agree but that is Future, he is wrong , he knows it, but will not admit it, so he will cherry pick to prove it and in the end shows how silly he is.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL. I can use a HELL of a lot more than "that one game" to support it Future, in fact I can use the MAJORITY of his games since he has been in the league ( you know that whole never, lost by more than 7 points in ANY game he has ever played) how about the Atlanta game big guy? The Niners playoff game? The Skins playoff game? Lets see here, been in 5 postseason games with a 4-1 record ( the one loss not being a "he lost" situation as he lead the GREATEST comeback in post season history going into the fourth quarter, and DID his job putting them in position to win), has a passer rating of over 100, has 9-3 td to int ratio ( 1 of which was a hale merry at the end of the Atlanta game with 3 seconds on the clock) and over 270 passing yards a game ( along with 50 something rushing yards). Luck had 6 picks in ONE game, is 2-2 and has MORE TURNOVERS than TD'S.

All of that said, Wilson has the ONE thing that matters according to you, a Lombardi. Wilson ALSO happens to be the ONLY QB in SB history to throw for over 250, have two TD tosses, zero turnovers, complete 65% of his passes and have a QB rating over 100 to not be named SB MVP. Simply put, regardless of how well that defense played, Wilson had a HISTORICALLY good game ( who knows how Manning does without the OFFENSE continuing to apply pressure?) I didn't just use "a game" I used "THE GAME" of which Luck. Hasn't been. Capable, of SNIFFING, BECAUSE. Of his turnover issues.

[kalibane]

The single biggest play of the Colts/Seahawks game was a blocked FG returned for a TD. Last I checked, Luck wasn't on the field for that play. Lynch was shut down in the Atlanta game in the Playoffs and in the Super Bowl. Remind me what Wilson did in those games again?

I know future is not trading on facts Anthony, but I'll never allow that to get in the way of me putting facts out there for other people to see.

Here's the thing, as blasphemous as it may be I still can't say if I wouldn't trade Wilson for Luck straight up right now if I were given the opportunity. I was a HUGE Luck fan during college and he has shown enough at the pro-level for me to believe my fandom was warranted. I fully believe he's the best prospect at the position since Elway. And I still worry about 7 years down the road whether Wilson's body holds up. (though not as much as pundits). But that's all based on the possibilities of the future.

For the games that have actually been played though, for the present there is no denying that Russell Wilson has been the superior QB. I've said it countless times but I will keep repeating it over an over. The only thing Luck has over Wilson at this point in their respective careers is sheer statistical volume in terms of passing yardage.

Wilson beats him in every single effiencey category and even in TD volume. It's not a contest. For whatever variables exist, Wilson has been better than Luck over the past two years and there is no way around it.

P.S. Future, I don't care if you didn't bring up Kaep... I brought it up for a reason. And the fact that you still can't admit that Wilson is a better QB than Kaep right now tells me everything I need to know about your posts. He's been better than Luck. But he's been better than Kaep handily. There is not a single QB power ranking that has Kaep ranked above Wilson, so your inability just to own up to the fact proves that you have extreme bias on the subject. Now you want to again change your position on something (the quality of the WRs) when it's convenient to your position. You ride for your team, and I respect that to a degree. But it exposes you.