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by **RiverDog** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:30 pm

Due to a Saturday game, it's started a day earlier than usual:

Broncos fire head coach Vic Fangio after three seasons, 19-30 record

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/br ... uxbndlbing

So at the moment, we currently have 3 HC openings: The Raiders, Jags, and now the Broncos. The Vikings are expected to can Mike Zimmer and the Bears are expected to part ways with Matt Nagy.

by **Hawktawk** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:42 pm

Yeah was seeing that . A potential HC who’s drawing a lot of interest is Quinn.I can’t read minds but I think our FO is really pondering whether to cut ties with Carroll . Reportedly Quinn has no interest in Jax but may interview with Denver . The perfect location for him is obvious but that requires Jodi to pull the plug. If the right guy isn’t out there I could see us running it back without a ton of changes . I’m beginning to suspect that’s what’s gonna happen here for better or worse .

by **RiverDog** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:45 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Yeah was seeing that . A potential HC who’s drawing a lot of interest is Quinn.I can’t read minds but I think our FO is really pondering whether to cut ties with Carroll . Reportedly Quinn has no interest in Jax but may interview with Denver . The perfect location for him is obvious but that requires Jodi to pull the plug. If the right guy isn’t out there I could see us running it back without a ton of changes . I’m beginning to suspect that’s what’s gonna happen here for better or worse .

If we part ways with Pete, the last person I would expect to see as our new HC would be Dan Quinn, a defensive minded coach, especially if Russell is staying put. No disrespect for Quinn whatsoever.

by **Hawktawk** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:42 pm

Is it his choice who we hire or Jodi and her advisors . Quinn had such a let Matt Cook offense it cost him a super bowl win in Atlanta . Russ should love him

by **RiverDog** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:52 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Is it his choice who we hire or Jodi and her advisors . Quinn had such a let Matt Cook offense it cost him a super bowl win in Atlanta . Russ should love him

My sense is that if management wants to move on from Pete, it will be because they are unhappy with the general direction of the franchise and would be anxious for a fresh, new start, so if it were me, I'd not only want an offensive minded coach, someone like Bienemy, Leftwich, or Garrett, but I'd want someone without direct connections to Pete's regime.

It's going to be an interesting week.

by **tarlhawk** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:12 pm

Hmm that "garbage team" Lions beat the Packers 37-30 even though it looks like Rodgers only played a half and Love played the other half.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:00 pm

tarlhawk wrote:Hmm that "garbage team" Lions beat the Packers 37-30 even though it looks like Rodgers only played a half and Love played the other half.

Exactly. The Packers had HFA locked up last week when they beat the Vikings. A garbage game.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:02 pm

Word out of Charolette is that they're retaining HC Matt Rhule.

by **Hawktawk** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:34 am

I was stunned Flores was fired . Multiple qb injuries , won 8 of last 9 games with a little left handed Qb with a broken throwing hand .wow. I kinda think Nagy got the shaft a little . Nothing else surprising / Rhule has no QB .

by **RiverDog** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:47 am

Hawktawk wrote:I was stunned Flores was fired . Multiple qb injuries , won 8 of last 9 games with a little left handed Qb with a broken throwing hand .wow. I kinda think Nagy got the shaft a little . Nothing else surprising / Rhule has no QB .

Yeah, that's been the biggest Black Monday surprise so far. But it was likely a "playoffs or bust" edict for Flores prior to the start of the season, similar to what Dennis Erickson was rumored to have had back in '98.

by **I-5** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:57 am

RiverDog wrote:Yeah, that's been the biggest Black Monday surprise so far. But it was likely a "playoffs or bust" edict for Flores prior to the start of the season, similar to what Dennis Erickson was rumored to have had back in '98.

If that's the scenario, it's still pretty stupid imo. I heard that Deshaun Watson was hoping to get traded to Miami this offseason, partly because he wanted to play for Flores. Who knows if that's changed now.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:48 pm

RiverDog wrote:Yeah, that's been the biggest Black Monday surprise so far. But it was likely a "playoffs or bust" edict for Flores prior to the start of the season, similar to what Dennis Erickson was rumored to have had back in '98.

I-5 wrote:If that's the scenario, it's still pretty stupid imo. I heard that Deshaun Watson was hoping to get traded to Miami this offseason, partly because he wanted to play for Flores. Who knows if that's changed now.

It didn't work out so badly for us when we fired Erickson, and he had more of a justification for retaining his job than Flores.

by **I-5** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:34 pm

RiverDog wrote:It didn't work out so badly for us when we fired Erickson, and he had more of a justification for retaining his job than Flores.

Agreed. So they better hope to have a SB coach lined up.

by **trents** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:26 pm

Dolphins owner is saying Flores wasn't fired for lack of success but for being a poor organizational collaborator. Difficult to work with. A revolving door of offensive coordinators under his tenure, etc.

by **tarlhawk** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:02 pm

RiverDog wrote:Exactly. The Packers had HFA locked up last week when they beat the Vikings. A garbage game.

Are you implying NFL teams will "take a game off"? I understand putting your best players out of risk...which is why preseason games see less and less starters "participation" in them. And the Jaguars rising up to beat/deny Indy a playoff shot...just a garbage team game?

I think I already saw you denigrate our victory over the Cards as simply a game the Cards didn't care to win...why would they want to win the NFC West Championship? Twice going for it on 4th down even when deep in their own territory...they were trying to give the game to us? You keep Kyler in there so he can feel frustration? At least their head coach gave creedence to our team winning because his own team was out coached and outplayed...since our own "fans" don't even rise to that occasion...your bitterness runs deep...again.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:08 pm

RiverDog wrote:Exactly. The Packers had HFA locked up last week when they beat the Vikings. A garbage game.

tarlhawk wrote:Are you implying NFL teams will "take a game off"? I understand putting your best players out of risk...which is why preseason games see less and less starters "participation" in them. And the Jaguars rising up to beat/deny Indy a playoff shot...just a garbage team game?

I think I already saw you denigrate our victory over the Cards as simply a game the Cards didn't care to win...why would they want to win the NFC West Championship? Twice going for it on 4th down even when deep in their own territory...they were trying to give the game to us? You keep Kyler in there so he can feel frustration? At least their head coach gave creedence to our team winning because his own team was out coached and outplayed...since our own "fans" don't even rise to that occasion...your bitterness runs deep...again.[/quote]

No one's ever going to admit to taking a game off, nor will any team in any game not play to win. But there are certain things that teams can and will do to either protect players or conceal game strategy in a game such as our Week 18 contest with the Cards.

I never said that the Cards "didn't care to win" their game with us. What I said was that there wasn't the same motivational factors present as there would be if there was more at stake for them.

I couldn't characterize my current sentiments as "bitterness". A more accurate term would be apathy. Yesterday's game didn't do much for me. The dog slept all the way through it without me waking him up a single time.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:13 pm

Suck for Luck, tank for Trevor, it does happen even if it’s never admitted.
Teams with meaningless games don’t try to lose but they do want to protect their stars and critical players
when entering the playoffs.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:17 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Suck for Luck, tank for Trevor, it does happen even if it’s never admitted. Teams with meaningless games don’t try to lose but they do want to protect their stars and critical players when entering the playoffs.

Exactly. No one, players or coaches, are ever going to admit it, but the intensity, or lack thereof, is obviously not the same in one of these games as there is when there's something tangible on the line.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:42 pm

In a bit of a surprise move, the Giants fired Joe Judge today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/gi ... uxbndlbing

So now we have fired coaches with 7 teams: Raiders, Jags, Vikings, Bears, Fins, Donkeys, and now the G-men. Is that it or will we add the Seahawks to the mix?

by **tarlhawk** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:56 pm

RiverDog wrote:In a bit of a surprise move, the Giants fired Joe Judge today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/gi ... uxbndlbing

So now we have fired coaches with 7 teams: Raiders, Jags, Vikings, Bears, Fins, Donkeys, and now the G-men. Is that it or will we add the Seahawks to the mix?

I'm guessing your wish won't come true...you can always cheer the group thinking Russ and his contract should leave. The Giants with a new coach has to be a great lure for a guy wanting 3 SB. Great coaches and GM's grow on trees these days.

by **TriCitySam** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:00 pm

"Is that it or will we add the Seahawks to the mix?"

Only a fan would make that move....

by **RiverDog** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:03 pm

RiverDog wrote:In a bit of a surprise move, the Giants fired Joe Judge today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/gi ... uxbndlbing

So now we have fired coaches with 7 teams: Raiders, Jags, Vikings, Bears, Fins, Donkeys, and now the G-men. Is that it or will we add the Seahawks to the mix?

tarlhawk wrote:I'm guessing your wish won't come true...you can always cheer the group thinking Russ and his contract should leave. The Giants with a new coach has to be a great lure for a guy wanting 3 SB. Great coaches and GM's grow on trees these days.

I'm also guessing that my 'wish' won't come true. IMO we'll be standing pat.

And I agree with you that the firing of Judge most likely eliminates the Giants as a possible landing spot for Russell. IMO a more viable destination for him would be the Saints.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:05 pm

TriCitySam wrote:"Is that it or will we add the Seahawks to the mix?"

Only a fan would make that move....

There's been bigger surprise Black Monday firings than what could happen with the Hawks and Carroll, so I'd be really careful how I phrase the possibilities.

by **Hawktawk** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:33 pm

The giants have been listed as a logical destination , leaked this year by Russels agent . They have the draft capital , the cap room and the celebrity lifestyle . What bigger splash could an incoming adminstration have than landing Russell in a blockbuster trade almost certainly involving Jones? . I think Carrolls future is the lynchpin for what happens to Russ . I still think he wants to leave . If he does I wonder if PC wants to even continue if he has the chance . My guess if they are trading Wilson they are firing Pete too .

by **tarlhawk** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:42 pm

RiverDog wrote:And I agree with you that the firing of Judge most likely eliminates the Giants as a possible landing spot for Russell. IMO a more viable destination for him would be the Saints.

The Saints aren't realistic since they are 63 million dollars in the hole already for cap space in 2022 and thats with 40 players under contract...so 13 more players to pay for just to fill out their roster (and pay for their drafted players in the 2022 Draft)..and shelled out a new contract for QB Taysom Hill at 40 million for 4 years.

by **tarlhawk** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:50 pm

Hawktawk wrote:The giants have been listed as a logical destination , leaked this year by Russels agent . They have the draft capital , the cap room and the celebrity lifestyle . What bigger splash could an incoming adminstration have than landing Russell in a blockbuster trade almost certainly involving Jones? . I think Carrolls future is the lynchpin for what happens to Russ . I still think he wants to leave . If he does I wonder if PC wants to even continue if he has the chance . My guess if they are trading Wilson they are firing Pete too .

The Giants have no Cap Space in 2022 with only 43 players under contract...so they need to pay 10 more players to get to 53...and pay for their draft choices in 2022...what cap room were you talking about that could absorb Russels existing contract. Whether it was RW or his baseball agent picking "targets" the only viable team would be the Washington Football Team and I'm sure JS would want 2-3 1rst rd picks and Chase Young/Montez Sweat...there will be teams asking but if we are sincere in wanting to keep him...the takers will "evaporate"

by **obiken** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:35 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I was stunned Flores was fired . Multiple qb injuries , won 8 of last 9 games with a little left handed Qb with a broken throwing hand .wow. I kinda think Nagy got the shaft a little . Nothing else surprising / Rhule has no QB .

Power struggle, he wanted Justin Herbert, and got stuck with Tua.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:37 am

I follow Russ on FB. This morning his cover page was a mural that said West to east empire with a picture underneath of Russ running out of the tunnel in the shadows with the caption , light at the end….

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:43 am

tarlhawk wrote:The giants have been listed as a logical destination , leaked this year by Russels agent . They have the draft capital , the cap room and the celebrity lifestyle . What bigger splash could an incoming adminstration have than landing Russell in a blockbuster trade almost certainly involving Jones? . I think Carrolls future is the lynchpin for what happens to Russ . I still think he wants to leave . If he does I wonder if PC wants to even continue if he has the chance . My guess if they are trading Wilson they are firing Pete too .

The Giants have no Cap Space in 2022 with only 43 players under contract...so they need to pay 10 more players to get to 53...and pay for their draft choices in 2022...what cap room were you talking about that could absorb Russels existing contract. Whether it was RW or his baseball agent picking "targets" the only viable team would be the Washington Football Team and I'm sure JS would want 2-3 1rst rd picks and Chase Young/Montez Sweat...there will be teams asking but if we are sincere in wanting to keep him...the takers will "evaporate"

I’m not a cap guru or draft guru personally so I don’t know . Surely anyone who wanted Russ would have to cut elsewhere obviously . Just saying there are still a few reporters saying nothings been settled in Seattle at least as of yesterday . I had heard Mark Rodgers had a 6 point list for Seattle to make Russ happy . Maybe he had a 2 point list for the Giants . Fire Judge and Gettelman :lol:

by **tarlhawk** » Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:54 am

Hawktawk wrote:I follow Russ on FB. This morning his cover page was a mural that said West to east empire with a picture underneath of Russ running out of the tunnel in the shadows with the caption , light at the end….

Nice imagery...I saw where Russell says he tries to focus on having joy so I am speculating he is eager to put this year behind him and rehab from the chaos he has had to endure. I utilize "overthecap.com" for cap comparisons...it shows cap space for current year and 3 years after so looking at 2022 tab you can see projected cap space and number of players under contract for that year. If you are curious about an individual players contract status you can search by name...I just saw where the Bengals had picked up Tre Flowers two million 1 yr contract as a CB back-up when we released him.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:41 am

The Texans fired first year HC David Culley. The body count is now up to 8 coaches.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/br ... d=msedgntp

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:37 am

Another head scratcher . The Superstar QB turned out to be deshawn no pockets and he had a journeyman QB and a second tier Rookie qb. Yet they had some surprising wins . Davis Mills completed his first 14 vs Seattle and then blew away his next 2 opponents including all world Herbert and also Indy I believe . The Texans were one reason the Chargers and Indy went from teams nobody wanted to see in the playoffs to teams nobody WILL see in the playoffs . And so much for the Rooney rule NFL .
2 of the 3 black coaches fired by white general managers , one after winning 8 of 9 and the other keeping a team together in a terrible season a d developing Mills into the best looking rookie QB by seasons end . Then I hear the idiot GM talking about accepting personal accountability. Dude if you were accountable you would resign .

by **mykc14** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:43 am

Hawktawk wrote:2 of the 3 black coaches fired by white general managers , one after winning 8 of 9 and the other keeping a team together in a terrible season a d developing Mills into the best looking rookie QB by seasons end . Then I hear the idiot GM talking about accepting personal accountability. Dude if you were accountable you would resign .

Are you implying that the firings were racially motivated?

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:54 am

Hawktawk wrote:Another head scratcher . The Superstar QB turned out to be deshawn no pockets and he had a journeyman QB and a second tier Rookie qb. Yet they had some surprising wins . Davis Mills completed his first 14 vs Seattle and then blew away his next 2 opponents including all world Herbert and also Indy I believe . The Texans were one reason the Chargers and Indy went from teams nobody wanted to see in the playoffs to teams nobody WILL see in the playoffs . And so much for the Rooney rule NFL .
2 of the 3 black coaches fired by white general managers , one after winning 8 of 9 and the other keeping a team together in a terrible season a d developing Mills into the best looking rookie QB by seasons end . Then I hear the idiot GM talking about accepting personal accountability. Dude if you were accountable you would resign .

Actually Davis Mills, a rookie QB did pretty well considering the situation there. He might be someone that can make a career out of it.
I've heard it said that Cully was a scapegoat and it was suggested he was just going to be a one year coach anyway. I'm not sure him
being Black was a factor, but who knows what's going on in the owners or GMs mind.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:14 am

Hawktawk wrote:2 of the 3 black coaches fired by white general managers , one after winning 8 of 9 and the other keeping a team together in a terrible season a d developing Mills into the best looking rookie QB by seasons end . Then I hear the idiot GM talking about accepting personal accountability. Dude if you were accountable you would resign .

mykc14 wrote:Are you implying that the firings were racially motivated?

Yeah, it's sad that in absence of any other information or evidence other than skin color that we make an assumption that race was involved in decision making.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:20 am

It's as fair as any other single criteria though.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:52 am

RiverDog wrote:
Yeah, it's sad that in absence of any other information or evidence other than skin color that we make an assumption that race was involved in decision making.

I’m stating facts . White GMs fired 2 of the 3 black coaches in the league. Teams chose GM over coach . I never said it was racism . I meant it’s a bad look . Media figures have noted it . It’s not an assumption it’s a terrible look for the league .

In the case of this idiot in Houston he might have tried to figure out how to move on from Watson and his huge salary .but hey gotta get the draft haul if your molester buys his way out . Culley got a raw deal .

by **mykc14** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:56 pm

Hawktawk wrote:
I’m stating facts . White GMs fired 2 of the 3 black coaches in the league. Teams chose GM over coach . I never said it was racism . I meant it’s a bad look . Media figures have noted it . It’s not an assumption it’s a terrible look for the league .

In the case of this idiot in Houston he might have tried to figure out how to move on from Watson and his huge salary .but hey gotta get the draft haul if your molester buys his way out . Culley got a raw deal .

Coaches are fired for many reasons. Wasn't he the same GM that hired the same black coach a year before? Last year he was a hero for hiring a black head coach and this year he is a villain for firing him. The GM does seem like an idiot and Culley probably got a raw deal, but that happens to coaches in the NFL all of the time. It's only a bad look because people keep trying to make it a story. People were comparing the other firings of black head coaches the other day to Joe Judge still having a job... well he got fired. Winning in the NFL is too important for these GM's. Winning is self preservation. Pointing to race every time something bad/unfair/unfortunate happens to a person of color creates a 'Boy Who Cried Wolf' view from people who otherwise might be sympathetic to real racism that is out there.

by **mykc14** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:00 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:It's as fair as any other single criteria though.

But coaches aren't typically fired for any one single criteria and with the importance of winning in today's NFL is a GM who is willing to fire a coach because of the color or their skin really going to have any longevity in the league? I'm not saying it's impossible but what their also isn't really any evidence to support that it was racist.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:27 pm

About as much (if not a smidge less) as that it wasn't.

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