Penny has arrived

[Hawktawk]

I was looking over our roster. I can't think of a unit besides the WRs, QB, FS, and punter that is competitive with the better teams. This roster is not a great roster.

Right now our RB room looks great to me. I read where there was a point Penney considered retiring rather than fight through all the injuries'. Hes the most productive back in the league unit the last 5 weeks. It might be cool story.
I like DeeJay. Hes like Penney he needs more touches but a great receiver out of the backfield, decent returning kicks. Homer is a swiss army knife. Collins is baby Lynch, not as powerful or durable but similar style and effort.
Maybe Carson , maybe not. We dont need him if the unit stays healthy but if the neck is OK hes an angry runner. You cant coach injuries and Chubb has missed time too as do all the backs. Derrick Henry missed most of the season. Seattle's run game has averaged 4.9 YPC this year through 17 weeks. Its just going 3 and out all the time you wouldnt know it.

So I give PC and JS a bit more credit than some on this roster in general. Name me the GM who hits every pick or even half of them? As Mike Salk said yesterday morning there's lots of mistakes and misses on this roster and that aren't on it but there are 31 other teams with similar stories. This regime drafted a 5'11" QB in the 3rd that's the first man to 100 wins, tied with Manning for most wins in 10 years with a chance to hold the record next Sunday. 6th all time in 4 TD games.
One of very few to have thrown at least 20 TDs each of his first 10 years.

PC got us a SB. Signed Lynch. Drafted Sherm, Kam, signed Bennet and Avril. Got Lockette, DK. Brooks is a beast and even slipping a little we dont have a bad LB corps. Barton looked great. Blair looks good when hes on the field. Carson is great when hes not hurt. The D line has been getting great pressure with Taylor looking like a dominant player in the near future. The corner who was injured looked great but I guess that's PCs fault he got hurt . The secondary has shown depth and talent and a willingness from PC to go away from his long tall corner strategy ala Trey Flowers. Diggs is a straight up beast. The line hasn't played badly lately. Really nice in the run game when you have a back that's patient helping set up his blocks then decisive and explosive. Everett was a brilliant signing. When it comes to injuries you need a crystal ball. When it comes to talent evaluation there's less misses than a lot of people want to think. Somebody won all those games.
Yeah there's Adams blah blah blah, LJ Collier, we dont know what McDowell could have been. But the roster isn't why we are losing. Its execution.
What was different in the win Sunday and in most wins this year?
QB play, hitting open receiver's, timely scrambles, not making mistakes or taking killer sacks coupled with a solid run game and bend but dont break defense. Pete Ball.

[RiverDog]

I swear, Hawktalk, you've become smitten with Penny in almost exactly the same manner as you have with Geno. You see a few highlight reels produced for his agent in the final few weeks before he hits free agency and you talk about him as if he's a HOF'er.

Regardless of the excuses, including the fact that our regular season success has led to picking in the mid 20's each season, the talent on this roster has undeniably taken a major turn south. It used to be that teams would wait for us to make our cuts so they could swoop them up like seagulls going after a picnic table the second the guests leave. Sure, JS and PC have hit on a couple of picks recently. The Metcalf selection was brilliant, Brooks and Taylor have seemed to have established themselves, and if they ever let Lewis settle in at a position, he looks to be a keeper, too. But the odds alone dictate that they'll have a bingo every once in a while. You'd have to be blind if you can't see how our roster no longer contains the quality of players it once had.

[NorthHawk]

I don't buy the idea that drafting later in the 1st round is significant.
Sure you miss out on one of the better players each year, but there are plenty of Pro Bowl quality players found from the mid 1st or so onward and there are multiple picks each year in those
middle rounds, so even though 1 player each year could accumulate to an increase in overall talent, excellent players are found throughout the draft. The problem with our FO is passing by
legitimate talent at positions of need and taking gambles on players that have a lower floor. I keep mentioning Chubb, and Watt, and Taylor for a reason. They were all there for the taking
and at positions of need. Add in not filling the hole at Center and the continued inability to select Offensive Linemen that can form a good and solid OL as well as Defensive Linemen and
we see a team that's not going to be able to compete outside of the exceptional efforts of the QB. We hit rock bottom last year in only having 3 selections. The quality of those might be
pretty good, but there weren't enough. We could have got a good Center - the Packers selected one in the 6th who is their starter before being hurt (along with their starting LG in the 6th).
That's what good drafting is about - finding players throughout the draft - and we haven't done that since 2013/2014 or thereabouts. And that's just too long of a dry spell.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"]I swear, Hawktalk, you've become smitten with Penny in almost exactly the same manner as you have with Geno. You see a few highlight reels produced for his agent in the final few weeks before he hits free agency and you talk about him as if he's a HOF'er.



You’ve become smitten with you're perspective and you’re putting words in my mouth . I’m an analyst watching games and plays . Penney was just named NFC offensive player of the week so
I’m not the only one smitten I’ve said “ barring injury “ every time . But he’s the most dynamic back since Lynch and a more dangerous back than almost any back I can remember in a long time with his combination of size and speed . I said the same thing in 2019 when he was blowing up before a freak injury . History means nothing right now . He’s playing as well as anyone .
Don’t get me started on Geno . His statistics over 13 quarters mirror Russels season averages with games like Sunday and Houston added in . His 3 starts were far better statistically than Wilson’s first 3 back with 1 more win , 3 more TD passes , a rushing TD, 700 yards . 2 turnovers in 3 starts and a quarter facing 3 really good defense and his only pick was when Lockett slipped or was tripped .

I’ve never said he should start over a healthy Russ . I said he should definitely have started in Green Bay . And in hindsight probably 3 games based on Wilson’s ineptitude . Russ had more wild misses in every one of those games than Geno had in all 3 of his .
My eyeballs see a former high draft pick , low mileage , very accurate powerful arm although not the shapes and touch good Russ gets on the ball . He’s mobile enough and good at sliding around in the pocket . If anything he waits a little too long to escape but his eyes are always down field . He is fearless at standing in and taking a hit , equally fearless at throwing over the middle or to well covered receivers . He has great chemistry with his teammates . I’m intrigued by a guy like that when you look at what’s out there if Russ forces his way out . I’d keep him in camp and give him a shot . Yes I saw enough to say that . But no more . We know less about Geno than Penney . Obviously not in good Russels wheelhouse . We saw he’s not nearly the same guy who was an idiot and turnover machine 10 years ago . Penney has a far better ceiling but Geno can win some games with the pieces around him imo .

[RiverDog]

I don't buy the idea that drafting later in the 1st round is significant.

Oh, I don't, either. I was simply noting it because it's an excuse that is used often to justify bad drafting.

As far as Penny goes, his recent performance really doesn't change much except to make him more expensive to re-sign should we decide to offer him a second contract, a decision that will likely be dependent on the status of Chris Carson. I can't see paying two running backs a combined 7-8% or so of the salary cap when only one of them can be on the field on any given play. That kind of formula hasn't worked so well for the Browns.

[Aseahawkfan]

Right now our RB room looks great to me. I read where there was a point Penney considered retiring rather than fight through all the injuries'. Hes the most productive back in the league unit the last 5 weeks. It might be cool story.
I like DeeJay. Hes like Penney he needs more touches but a great receiver out of the backfield, decent returning kicks. Homer is a swiss army knife. Collins is baby Lynch, not as powerful or durable but similar style and effort.
Maybe Carson , maybe not. We dont need him if the unit stays healthy but if the neck is OK hes an angry runner. You cant coach injuries and Chubb has missed time too as do all the backs. Derrick Henry missed most of the season. Seattle's run game has averaged 4.9 YPC this year through 17 weeks. Its just going 3 and out all the time you wouldnt know it.

So I give PC and JS a bit more credit than some on this roster in general. Name me the GM who hits every pick or even half of them? As Mike Salk said yesterday morning there's lots of mistakes and misses on this roster and that aren't on it but there are 31 other teams with similar stories. This regime drafted a 5'11" QB in the 3rd that's the first man to 100 wins, tied with Manning for most wins in 10 years with a chance to hold the record next Sunday. 6th all time in 4 TD games.
One of very few to have thrown at least 20 TDs each of his first 10 years.

PC got us a SB. Signed Lynch. Drafted Sherm, Kam, signed Bennet and Avril. Got Lockette, DK. Brooks is a beast and even slipping a little we dont have a bad LB corps. Barton looked great. Blair looks good when hes on the field. Carson is great when hes not hurt. The D line has been getting great pressure with Taylor looking like a dominant player in the near future. The corner who was injured looked great but I guess that's PCs fault he got hurt . The secondary has shown depth and talent and a willingness from PC to go away from his long tall corner strategy ala Trey Flowers. Diggs is a straight up beast. The line hasn't played badly lately. Really nice in the run game when you have a back that's patient helping set up his blocks then decisive and explosive. Everett was a brilliant signing. When it comes to injuries you need a crystal ball. When it comes to talent evaluation there's less misses than a lot of people want to think. Somebody won all those games.
Yeah there's Adams blah blah blah, LJ Collier, we dont know what McDowell could have been. But the roster isn't why we are losing. Its execution.
What was different in the win Sunday and in most wins this year?
QB play, hitting open receiver's, timely scrambles, not making mistakes or taking killer sacks coupled with a solid run game and bend but dont break defense. Pete Ball.

I don't care how many times you post, I'm going to post right back this roster is bad. It is.

It doesn't matter what Penny did the last few games, 4 years in he is not proven at all.

We have a handful of guys that proved they can play on a competitive NFL roster with any consistency. Russell, DK Metcalf, Lockett, Diggs, Brooks, our punter, and I think a few of our O-line guys, but I barely remember them.

The rest our old, inconsistent, injury issues, backups or rotation players, or on the downside of their career like Bobby. If we don't rejuvenate this roster with some quality talent, especially on defense, soon then we're not competing.

You're crazy to want to give Penny anything for four years of suck and 3 games at the end of good. I hope...and I'm pretty sure our team won't...be snookered by Penny's late contract heroics against crap teams when we're out of the playoffs. He ran for himself, not this team. If he had run for this team, then he would have shown much better much earlier. You like to speculate on the mentality of players, so I'll do the same. Penny stepped up the last few games of a contract year all for himself to try to get someone to throw him money on a second contract without having done much to earn it. When he gets paid again, he'll go back to his usual injured or half-assed running like he did before.

[RiverDog]

I don't care how many times you post, I'm going to post right back this roster is bad. It is.

It doesn't matter what Penny did the last few games, 4 years in he is not proven at all.

We have a handful of guys that proved they can play on a competitive NFL roster with any consistency. Russell, DK Metcalf, Lockett, Diggs, Brooks, our punter, and I think a few of our O-line guys, but I barely remember them.

The rest our old, inconsistent, injury issues, backups or rotation players, or on the downside of their career like Bobby. If we don't rejuvenate this roster with some quality talent, especially on defense, soon then we're not competing.

You're crazy to want to give Penny anything for four years of suck and 3 games at the end of good. I hope...and I'm pretty sure our team won't...be snookered by Penny's late contract heroics against crap teams when we're out of the playoffs. He ran for himself, not this team. If he had run for this team, then he would have shown much better much earlier. You like to speculate on the mentality of players, so I'll do the same. Penny stepped up the last few games of a contract year all for himself to try to get someone to throw him money on a second contract without having done much to earn it. When he gets paid again, he'll go back to his usual injured or half-assed running like he did before.

I'm not going quite that far and suggest that Penny was running only for himself, but one has to recognize that the possibility exists. We've all seen players suddenly come to life in their contract years. Maybe that's true with Penny, maybe it's not. But you'd have to be very naive if you didn't take note the timing of his newly found running success, that the better he performs in the last few games of his rookie contract, the higher his market value as a free agent.

[NorthHawk]

Maybe he has finally figured out how he has to train and the style he has to play to be successful at the NFL level. Then again, maybe it is because of the contract year.
I don't know what the answer is, but I do know of his injury past and I'm not sure he will be a workhorse RB in the future, which is what we need.
I expect the FO to offer some type of contract, but like RD, I doubt it will be for a lot more money than would be expected from a RB with his history.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not going quite that far and suggest that Penny was running only for himself, but one has to recognize that the possibility exists. We've all seen players suddenly come to life in their contract years. Maybe that's true with Penny, maybe it's not. But you'd have to be very naive if you didn't take note the timing of his newly found running success, that the better he performs in the last few games of his rookie contract, the higher his market value as a free agent.

People on here love to speculate on what someone's thinking, so I was just tossing it in since it's done so often. Like some of the people on here including Hawktawk who ignore Russell put in 9 years of hard work, preparation, year after year, never missing games until this year, came back early to help the team, and has been one of the most dedicated Seahawks in team history leading us to a Super Bowl win and a second Super Bowl with no name receivers doing absolutely amazing things while in Seattle while Hawktawk lauds some RB that shows up for 3 games at the end of a non-playoff year against crap teams with low motivation to play hard after 4 years on the team.

That is the height of ridiculous. Russell has been out there through the good and the bad laying it all on the line for the Seahawks for his entire career. He has seen lots of ups and downs. He never ever game us less than 100%. He has been the indefatigable, positive field general of this team. Suddenly I see these fans turn on him and laud some guy that has done nothing for us for four years, not been there when we needed him, and not been there for the hard times.

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing this kind of stupid crap on a fan forum. It just shocks me how quickly someone turns on a player as amazing as Russell Wilson has been for the Seahawks and laud some player that is doing great things in garbage time with no pressure and nothing on the line other than his next contract.

Whereas Russell gave us everything game in and game out the first year of his 3rd round pick rookie contract to the current year of his expensive contract. He never changed and never stops working to improve.

Whereas Penny hasn't done jack squat to help us get to the playoffs or advance to the Super Bowl. This 3 games of garbage time play at the end of his contract is nothing to me. He's gotta prove it against a great team when all the chips are on the line like Russell has done for years. Or Bobby. Or Sherm. Or Earl. Or Marshawn. Or all our great guys who stepped up rather than down when facing the most difficult challenges.

[Hawktawk]

People on here love to speculate on what someone's thinking, so I was just tossing it in since it's done so often. Like some of the people on here including Hawktawk who ignore Russell put in 9 years of hard work, preparation, year after year, never missing games until this year, came back early to help the team, and has been one of the most dedicated Seahawks in team history leading us to a Super Bowl win and a second Super Bowl with no name receivers doing absolutely amazing things while in Seattle while Hawktawk lauds some RB that shows up for 3 games at the end of a non-playoff year against crap teams with low motivation to play hard after 4 years on the team.

That is the height of ridiculous. Russell has been out there through the good and the bad laying it all on the line for the Seahawks for his entire career. He has seen lots of ups and downs. He never ever game us less than 100%. He has been the indefatigable, positive field general of this team. Suddenly I see these fans turn on him and laud some guy that has done nothing for us for four years, not been there when we needed him, and not been there for the hard times.

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing this kind of stupid crap on a fan forum. It just shocks me how quickly someone turns on a player as amazing as Russell Wilson has been for the Seahawks and laud some player that is doing great things in garbage time with no pressure and nothing on the line other than his next contract.

Whereas Russell gave us everything game in and game out the first year of his 3rd round pick rookie contract to the current year of his expensive contract. He never changed and never stops working to improve.

Whereas Penny hasn't done jack squat to help us get to the playoffs or advance to the Super Bowl. This 3 games of garbage time play at the end of his contract is nothing to me. He's gotta prove it against a great team when all the chips are on the line like Russell has done for years. Or Bobby. Or Sherm. Or Earl. Or Marshawn. Or all our great guys who stepped up rather than down when facing the most difficult challenges.

Hey Asea I’m on like 8 threads so if you want to rag on me do it face to face ok . I really don’t know what the Penney thread had to do with my observations of Russ but I’ll address both . Penney is a god damn snapshot . We know the past as we know the present which is all pro bell cow numbers . We don’t know the future . What I know of this kid , what my spirit tells me about his character and desire when he’s smiling on the sidelines. It’s despicable to suggest he tanked and now is turning it up at contract time . He’s had to work harder to stay in the league at all then almost anyone and considered retirement . I’m
Happy as hell for him .
And show me where I’ve dismissed Russels accomplishments ? His work ethic ? That was then and this is now . He’s become a complete diva . Tired of getting hit too much isn’t speculation . It’s on tape . It’s no secret his agent is pressuring Seattle to allow him to be traded , reported by multiple outlets . He’s played some of the worst football of his career since returning from injury 3 weeks early after frowning on the sidelines every time Geno hit a pass . It’s the stretch that sunk the season . He’s lost to 3 backups . That was then this is now . I watch film . I don’t play fan boy . I evaluate week to week .

[Aseahawkfan]

Hey Asea I’m on like 8 threads so if you want to rag on me do it face to face ok . I really don’t know what the Penney thread had to do with my observations of Russ but I’ll address both . Penney is a god damn snapshot . We know the past as we know the present which is all pro bell cow numbers . We don’t know the future . What I know of this kid , what my spirit tells me about his character and desire when he’s smiling on the sidelines. It’s despicable to suggest he tanked and now is turning it up at contract time . He’s had to work harder to stay in the league at all then almost anyone and considered retirement . I’m
Happy as hell for him .
And show me where I’ve dismissed Russels accomplishments ? His work ethic ? That was then and this is now . He’s become a complete diva . Tired of getting hit too much isn’t speculation . It’s on tape . It’s no secret his agent is pressuring Seattle to allow him to be traded , reported by multiple outlets . He’s played some of the worst football of his career since returning from injury 3 weeks early after frowning on the sidelines every time Geno hit a pass . It’s the stretch that sunk the season . He’s lost to 3 backups . That was then this is now . I watch film . I don’t play fan boy . I evaluate week to week .

You just called Russell a complete diva, a guy who had a broken finger and surgery, who came back early to help his team win. You don't know Russell personally. And these personal shots are distasteful and rude towards Russ who as far as you know is nothing more than a stand up guy who has always tried to do his best on and off the field. He has been caught up in no scandals. He goes to local children's hospitals and gives his time to help his community. All of it very low key and exhibiting nothing but high character behavior. But you take some crap he says on some radio or TV interview and extrapolate it into some idea of being a diva or not wanting to be in Seattle? Give me a fricking break. It's foul the shots some people are taking at Russ without knowing much about what he really thinks or wants.

You get back to me when Penny puts in even a entire year's worth of performances. Then I'll start to listen. You want to be a top flight RB, 3 games in garbage time is not going to do it.

As far as ragging on you to your face, I don't live near you or know you personally so that is unlikely to happen on top of the fact that most people like discussing things to my face less than they like going back and forth with me in writing. I can immediately check them in a verbal discussion without having to wait for a response.

You go on ragging on Russ. You already have it in your head, so I doubt it will change any time soon.

[Stream Hawk]

Asea, I started this thread so you must have a problem with my post. I apologize for lauding over someone finally meeting and exceeding expectations. Penny wasn’t healthy when we were “in it" this year; that’s not his fault. Penny was healthy in 2019 when we were still “in it” and helping us win games until he tore his ACL; again, not his fault.
It’s always surprised me how many folks get so irritated with someone’s injuries. Penny is healthy now and I for one want to keep him around and see what happens.

[tarlhawk]

It's foul the shots some people are taking at Russ without knowing much about what he really thinks or wants. You get back to me when Penny puts in even a entire year's worth of performances. Then I'll start to listen. You want to be a top flight RB, 3 games in garbage time is not going to do it.

You guys are both focusing on individuals when Russell and Penny are important pieces of our TEAM going forward. Russell is key to thoughts of any future success...we have placed many weapons for Russell to have success going forward...as an elite QB he has demonstrated an ability to win the close games and to inspire comebacks from his TEAM. This has been the most adversity he has had to overcome both on and off the field and these "garbage time" games have provided him some lessons learned to making us a powerful force to be reckoned with in 2022. His relationship with Pete had a strong beginning when Pete turned over the reigns ...showing trust in his rookie to take him to where he wanted the team to go. Russ rewarded that trust and elevated his game rather quickly...the type of rarefied beginnings as hall of famers Peyton Manning and Dan Marino both enjoyed.

Both he and Pete are strong motivators with a passion to win. That relationship has strained as RW tries to establish new boundaries with Pete's own responsibilities and allowing his agent to go public via the media has hurt our GM who was a big "cheerleader" in bringing Russell aboard...while others passing on him suspected his height would be an issue...John believed in RW.

The TEAM has benefitted with Penny's emergence as a strong feature back because it demonstrates how balance can elevate opportunities for play action...our play makers can all burst free with any hesitation from their assigned coverage...and when Russell's confidence is soaring his passes quickly find "homes". The O-Line surges to better run blocking with a RB's success. Strong running and throwing underneath works to pull our opponent out of playing two high safeties...getting their Strong Safety to drop down into the box puts the best free safeties at risk trying to decide which CB to help...DK and Lockett are single coverage nightmares. A short contract with a large signing bonus and triggered playing bonuses based on healthy availability I hope will be enough to retain an interested Penny.

Both of you post with strong point/counterpoints and I appreciate the opportunity to agree to disagree with posters with demonstrated researching/passion.

[Hawktawk]

Asea, I started this thread so you must have a problem with my post. I apologize for lauding over someone finally meeting and exceeding expectations. Penny wasn’t healthy when we were “in it" this year; that’s not his fault. Penny was healthy in 2019 when we were still “in it” and helping us win games until he tore his ACL; again, not his fault.
It’s always surprised me how many folks get so irritated with someone’s injuries. Penny is healthy now and I for one want to keep him around and see what happens.

This right here . ^^^^^^^penneys a super talented super nice kid who had to deal with unexpected injuries for the first time in his life . The first was severe . I liked the draft pick based on research and film and it was clear to me that he was preparing to pass Carson as the feature back if his trajectory improved . I said it at the time as did you I’m sure . But the draft niks who didn’t like the pick high five when the guy gets hurt so they can be right . It’s as bad as the political forum sometimes . I’ve said it over and over . It’s a snapshot but an eye opening snapshot . Of course he has to stay healthy . Of course he’s got to stay motivated . If he does and he’s a Seahawks he’s going to be something as a late bloomer . What it all has to do with Russell Wilson other than help him like it has in several big wins and even one vs the bears he lost anyway .

[tarlhawk]

Let's be honest here...Penny can't be elevated to any GOOD thing because there are some who use his 1rst Rd selection as fuel for their "everyone must go"...especially Pete and our GM...they can't be trusted to guide our team any more. If we beat the Cardinals (and its a big if ...being an away game against a divisional opponent)...those same people would find some flaw in how the game was won.

[NorthHawk]

Let's be honest here...Penny can't be elevated to any GOOD thing because there are some who use his 1rst Rd selection as fuel for their "everyone must go"...especially Pete and our GM...they can't be trusted to guide our team any more. If we beat the Cardinals (and its a big if ...being an away game against a divisional opponent)...those same people would find some flaw in how the game was won.

The people that I've heard that aren't fully on board with Penny are simply not willing to give him a big contract at this point.
I personally believe we will offer him something but he will get better offers from other teams. It's just the way the NFL is.
On the other hand we squandered away about 55Million in Cap space last year and really got very little from it. A lot of backup players but no players that can help us long term.
There's no reason to think it's going to change this year.

[Aseahawkfan]

Asea, I started this thread so you must have a problem with my post. I apologize for lauding over someone finally meeting and exceeding expectations. Penny wasn’t healthy when we were “in it" this year; that’s not his fault. Penny was healthy in 2019 when we were still “in it” and helping us win games until he tore his ACL; again, not his fault.
It’s always surprised me how many folks get so irritated with someone’s injuries. Penny is healthy now and I for one want to keep him around and see what happens.

I don't have a problem with your post.

I'll tell you specifically what I have a problem with: ragging on Russell Wilson. This guy is basically like a QB version of Steve Largent. Yet for some reason he gets ragged on like he is the problem on the team. Why? Because he married a celebrity wife? Or because of some other nefarious reason which I will not bring up for the moment as I'm tired of that crap? Russell Wilson is about as quality a human being as they come. An under-sized QB who no one thought would make it as far in the NFL as he did who has dealt with serious trials in his life and overcome them all to set a quality example of a human being working hard to accomplish their dreams, overcome their shortcomings (pun intended), and just work at being good at his profession, good for his community, and doing all of this without expecting anyone to laud him or pump him up. I get tired of that crap the most. I'm pretty sure someone like c-bob has ideas of where this criticism comes from and it's not a good place. It is pissing me off. Matt Hasselbeck never performed as well as Russell. Was injured more than Russ. Had some really stupid plays like "We want the ball and we're going to win" moments. I never hear him getting called garbage like a diva or a complainer. I wonder why?

Marrying a music star doesn't make you some kind of diva. Mentioning something on a radio show that most of the fan base also noticed year after year about taking a lot of hits which is literally documented doesn't make you a complainer. It's ridiculous. I am personally damn proud to have Russell Wilson as our Seahawks QB. I'm put him in the same category as Steven Largent for character and just being an all around great example of a human being.

As far as Penny, I see him like I see most injured players: you haven't made it in the NFL until you can endure the NFL brutality for multiple seasons. Even as "soft" as the game has become, it's still one of the most brutal sports in the world, especially for a RB. I don't get that high on a RB who racks up yards in a few games of garbage time. I know that come next year he's going to have to prove it all again with teams preparing to crush him and make him give up. Until he shows he can do it during those periods like all the truly great RBs, then I'm not that excited. RB careers are 5 years long on average? Maybe less? It's the most brutal position in professional team sports that sends a 200 lb. man into the jaws of a bunch of 250 to 300 lb. men to get crushed. Can you imagine what it takes to survive that for years? It's what makes guys like Marshawn Lynch, Emmitt Smith, or Larry Csonka so unique.

If Penny wants to go another year to try to prove himself on a reasonable contract, we can do it. But he's still very much in prove it mode in my mind.

[Hawktawk]

"You just called Russell a complete diva, a guy who had a broken finger and surgery, who came back early to help his team win.



"BS. He came back because he didn't like anyone else playing QB for Seattle no matter who it was . It was his docudrama from the surgery on. Russ the fast healer, Russ the superman. My own orthopedic surgeon said the pin was pulled 3 week early and then there needs to be rehab on that injury and it doesn't matter who the person is or how fast they heal from other typed of injuries. Russ sat on the sidelines and watched Geno complete 80% of his passes vs Jax, put up 3 TDs, teammates bantering with him , tweeting jokes and razzing him after the game. DK texted of the first perfect TD pass from Geno "I've never had a a ball like that ".

I'm not sure it wasn't that evening we see "no more pin time to win". And check the results of his first 3 starts back. 0 points. 13 points. 14 points. No touchdown passes in 2 of the 3 all losses. 2 picks. Lost to 2 backups and has added one since then. He came back for Russel's legacy, Russel's brand and this time and it backfired. On this very thread I listed all Russel's accomplishments, clearly HOF type stuff. yeah hes great in the community, a class guy. Id rather have an A hole that can win a Lombardi at this point than a guy whos agent is trying to force a trade. Your delusional if you dont think its happening. Its all over sports media. I dont care what you did before. If you want out go away."



As far as ragging on you to your face, I don't live near you or know you personally so that is unlikely to happen on top of the fact that most people like discussing things to my face less than they like going back and forth with me in writing. I can immediately check them in a verbal discussion without having to wait for a response. "



"I thought you would understand respond to me directly as opposed to tagging me twice in one rant of a post replying to someone else against anyone who dare question his royal highness. Maybe answer one of my threads with actual stats proving my point instead of responding with fanboy emotion for a guy that isn't the same as he was when he came here on or off the field.
And for the zillionth time we all understand Penney hasnt fulfilled his contract ...Really? Were talking about now. His skill set is far above Carson's and that guy is hurt all the damn time too."



You go on ragging on Russ. You already have it in your head, so I doubt it will change any time soon.[/quote]

"I analyze. Lots of analysts are trying to figure out what's up with Russ. If being critical of poor play , a self centered decision to play hurt to be hero Russ when it wasn't a help and he damn well knew it as the defense was heroic holding Arod to 17 points , petulant demands of the front office and coach, tired of getting hit too much, floating destinations though his agent while sweet talking the fans how he "hopes" hes here.

He was great, incredible here. HOF #s .He proved last Sunday and a couple of other game he can still be great. Great enough to climb the mountain again? Great often enough or simply good or even bad as hes been all 3 this year? Great enough to put up with annual trade rumors floated by Russel's baseball agent and his petulant demands of the coaching staff to call the plays and pick the players? Its fair to question these things."

[tarlhawk]

The media works to divide and have a ratings conquest as a result. I gave up on media when they started blatantly lying...then follow up by putting a retraction in the next days print. Until I see Russell himself say he wants out...and that its because he dislike's the coach's restraints...then I'll take him at his word.

The very best in football don't try to pick a team that seems a "better" fit...they shape and mold the cards that are dealt. I feel Russell has accomplished a lot with this team and wants to inspire the team to put this bad season behind us...and having tasted this bad season will be even more motivated to restore our winning ways.

There is plenty of bad QB play out there for a guy like Gino to get a real starting job...if he finds a lack of respect from the outside then I hope he remains as our back-up. My next statement may cause some scoffing but Russell is a professed Christian and often attributes his success to a higher calling...just as Lockett does...just as Jordyn does. "A mans word is his bond" is something I'll attribute to Russell not as a fanboy but as an appreciation for the dedication he puts in his craft. I held the same respect for Doug Baldwin...and still have for Lockett.

[Hawktawk]

R

The media works to divide and have a ratings conquest as a result. I gave up on media when they started blatantly lying...then follow up by putting a retraction in the next days print. Until I see Russell himself say he wants out...and that its because he dislike's the coach's restraints...then I'll take him at his word.

The very best in football don't try to pick a team that seems a "better" fit...they shape and mold the cards that are dealt. I feel Russell has accomplished a lot with this team and wants to inspire the team to put this bad season behind us...and having tasted this bad season will be even more motivated to restore our winning ways.

There is plenty of bad QB play out there for a guy like Gino to get a real starting job...if he finds a lack of respect from the outside then I hope he remains as our back-up. My next statement may cause some scoffing but Russell is a professed Christian and often attributes his success to a higher calling...just as Lockett does...just as Jordyn does. "A mans word is his bond" is something I'll attribute to Russell not as a fanboy but as an appreciation for the dedication he puts in his craft. I held the same respect for Doug Baldwin...and still have for Lockett.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ru ... hp&pc=U531
Russell has made another statement in which he clarifies his earlier comments as not saying he hopes to be here but that he "wants" to be winning his super bowls here in Seattle. Its a 30 second clip. He explains that a no trade clause keeps a team from trading you "to anywhere "Sounds like more Russ. We aren't going to know for a while for sure. It still wasn't a solid no I wont accept a trade.

And before someone jumps on me for my Russ hate listen up. Nothing would make me happier than for good Russ(like last Sunday) to return on a regular basis, fulfill his last 2 years and then see what the future holds. Peter King reported today he thinks Pete may be here and Russ traded. He doesn't like the choice as he feels its easier to get a good coach than a franchise QB. There's just so much chatter. If they are gonna divorce this offseason makes more sense than any other time for everyone though. Its just the math.

I agree with your take on Geno obviously. I've re watched every one of the Seahawks games including his 13 quarters. He played mostly good to occasionally excellent with some absolutely beautiful throws and solid pocket presence, good field vision for the most part. Hes no Russell Wilson but hes really not too bad . And at least according to sideline reporter Michelle Tafoya his teammates went out of their way to let her know the fondness they have for Geno, the chemistry he has with the team.
I see the bridge to whatever is next if Russ bails right there compared to some of the absolute stiffs available on the market. Hes been one of my biggest surprises of the year. When he came in vs the Rams on the 2 I was hoping he could hand off 3 times for 5 yards without a fumble to give Dixon room to punt while they got Russ taped up Truly a nice effort after not playing for 5 years and backing up a guy that never sits out.

You're right about Russ though. Hes a genuine Christian man. Being a believer doesn't make you perfect. It makes you forgiven and gives you guardrails to manage your conduct, a sense of peace. Vanity might be a sin but that why we need Jesus. His generosity in the community is admirable and real. His accomplishments are incredible. None of it answers the questions about the future of the franchise or the franchise qb. He will always be a legend in Seattle no matter what happens.

[Stream Hawk]

This game matters to Arizona. Penny has 100+ yards. Just saying;)
Edit: 190 yards. Sign Penny time. Could be a 1 + year with incentives for more. Or franchise tag him (ducks).

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't know what's going on with Penny. This guy goes 4 years showing us next to nothing. Then he just explodes these last 4 or so games in his final contract year.

What do you pay for that? I don't know. I still don't know if I want to pay much for that. Looks like fool's gold to me.

He just built himself a lot of leverage in his contract year. I'm sure he'll find some team willing to pay for that potential, just not sure it should be us. If he signs that new contract, comes backs, ends up injured again that will be a whole lot of wasted money.

[RiverDog]

I don't know what's going on with Penny. This guy goes 4 years showing us next to nothing. Then he just explodes these last 4 or so games in his final contract year.

What do you pay for that? I don't know. I still don't know if I want to pay much for that. Looks like fool's gold to me.

He just built himself a lot of leverage in his contract year. I'm sure he'll find some team willing to pay for that potential, just not sure it should be us. If he signs that new contract, comes backs, ends up injured again that will be a whole wasted money.

Yea, no kidding. We declined his 5th year option, so it's not just us arm chair QB's that think he wasn't/isn't worth a 2nd contract.

These past few games has dramatically increased Penny's market value and will make him way too expensive for us to make a run at. The only way I see us going after him is if we do something with Carson, and despite how good Penny looked, Carson is the more complete back.

[trents]

The Hawks declined Penny's fifth year option because of his injury proneness which had not given them a large enough sampling of his impact on the field. I would be willing to bet (if I were a betting man) if John and Pete had to do that over again now they would pick up his option. I would hate to see Penny on another team in our conference because he will be another one of those opposing players who is Seahawk killer.

[Aseahawkfan]

What do you pay to give a guy a shot without locking yourself in or breaking the bank? How many players have shown up the last four games or their 4 year contract and went on to great things? It will be interesting to see.

I feel like someone will throw stupid money at this guy, but maybe we can extend him for a reasonable price to see if he's the real deal.

Yeah. We voided this 5th year because of how lame he was until these last 4 games.

[Aseahawkfan]

The Hawks declined Penny's fifth year option because of his injury proneness which had not given them a large enough sampling of his impact on the field. I would be willing to be if John and Pete had to do that over again now they would pick up his option. I would hate to see Penny on another team in our conference because he will be another one of those opposing players who is Seahawk killer.

How many Seahawk killers are there out there on other teams we let walk? How much will you pay to give a guy another shot? That's the real question. I can't think of any guys Pete and John have let go that came back to kill us. That's one area where Pete and John cannot be faulted. They usually know when to let someone go.

It's not whether Penny has earned another go, it's how much will it cost and is it worth it to us.

[RiverDog]

The Hawks declined Penny's fifth year option because of his injury proneness which had not given them a large enough sampling of his impact on the field. I would be willing to bet (if I were a betting man) if John and Pete had to do that over again now they would pick up his option. I would hate to see Penny on another team in our conference because he will be another one of those opposing players who is Seahawk killer.

That was one reason. The other reason was that we 'thought' that we had found our RB of the future in Chris Carson. It doesn't make sense to keep two of the top 10 highest paid RB's on our roster. It certainly hasn't worked any magic for the Browns.

[trents]

By "lame" do you mean literally? Because when Penny was able to play in those few windows of non injured time, he racked up some good yards IIRC. There were some games he got to play in when (up until the last 4 games) when the play calling was heavily weighted toward the passing game and the run was almost ignored.

[Aseahawkfan]

By "lame" do you mean literally? Because when Penny was able to play in those few windows of non injured time, he racked up some good yards IIRC. There were some games he got to play in when (up until the last 4 games) when the play calling was heavily weighted toward the passing game and the run was almost ignored.

I'm more wondering what examples of 4 year players who spent most of their time injured or performing at a moderate level suddenly blossomed into amazing players?

I'm wondering what you think he is worth. What will the market pay for Penny? Is someone going to break the bank for him? If so, do we break the bank to keep him? You that confident you could sign him to top RB money?

What do you think it will take to give this guy another shot?

[trents]

I'm more wondering what examples of 4 year players who spent most of their time injured or performing at a moderate level suddenly blossomed into amazing players?

I'm wondering what you think he is worth. What will the market pay for Penny? Is someone going to break the bank for him? If so, do we break the bank to keep him? You that confident you could sign him to top RB money?

What do you think it will take to give this guy another shot?

What do feature backs go for in the league? I'm not up on all that. All I hear about are the huge QB salaries for top QB's.

[Aseahawkfan]

What do feature backs go for in the league? I'm not up on all that. All I hear about are the huge QB salaries for top QB's.

I'm not sure either. So let's take a look. Really, that is more what it comes down too. How much will it cost to give a guy who looks absolutely ridiculously good another shot at the end of his contract.

https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/

Looks like somewhere between 15 million tops and 6 million. It might be pretty affordable to give him a shot as long as someone doesn't toss something insane at him. If we could get him for a 2 year 12 million dollar contract, I'd be pretty happy with that risk level. Still a prove it contract, but worth quite a bit if he can keep this up or something close.

[trents]

Is Carson's contract up for renewal? What if we traded Carson and kept Penny? How would the numbers work on that?

[TriCitySam]

If he had not gotten hurt he’d have been awesome and put Carson on the bench or cut deeply into his carries . I forget the opponent but he had an explosive 50 yard TD run and over 100’yards splitting carries in 2018, clearly had another gear Carson lacks . The eye test tells anyone not hooked on their hatred the guy cam be special . I know let’s bring back Carson with his neck fused . Talk about injured .

I don’t disagree, and it has nothing to do with revising history. He could reel off a 2,000 yard season and there are those who would be critical. Penny was an immensely talented back coming out of college and never had a chance to beat out Carson because of the injury bug, not because of talent. Carson has never put up the numbers we’ve seen from Penny the past 5 weeks....having said that Pennys career has been a big disappointment. But if he stays healthy..... he does not have a lot of miles on that big body. No qualified scouts at Walterfootball....however PFF does, and in THEIR scouting report: “A first round talent”. So if your disappointed in his career, you have every right to be. But if you feel he was a “bad pick” based on his potential, I completely disagree.

[c_hawkbob]

Neither Carson or Penny will be on next year's roster.

[Oly]

What a crappy position for the team to be in. With Carson's injury history and running style, I'm not sure you can count on him being The Guy for an extended period. His cap number next year is about 6.5m, or nearly 3% of the cap. I'm not great with figuring out cap stuff, but I think he'd carry a 4.5m dead money hit if we cut him. So I see him being around for next year but cut in 2023.

Given that Carson is unlikely to be around in 2023, I would like to see the team extend Penny on a 1- or 2-year deal. I'm more optimistic about Penny staying healthy than Carson, TBH. If my memory is correct, this is the first time he'll be heading into the offseason without knee issues, so with an offseason to continue to strengthen it before the season, he might be good to go next year. If they could push most of the money to 2023 that would be great so we don't have too much cap tied up in the RB position next year. Before the Cards game, I thought that Penny's success was as much about the weak opposition recently as about Penny. The Cards game showed me that he is worth a gamble, and I wouldn't mind the team making a strong offer to counter what he might get from other teams.

If we could get him for a 2 year 12 million dollar contract, I'd be pretty happy with that risk level. Still a prove it contract, but worth quite a bit if he can keep this up or something close.

That's why I think asea's idea is perfect. We have so many roster holes right now that it doesn't make sense to create another one if we can avoid it.

[c_hawkbob]

Penny ain't gonna take a prove it deal, he's an unrestricted FA, someone's gonna be willing to pay him.

[RiverDog]

Cbob is exactly right. There is no extending Penny. We opted out of that option when we declined to pick up his 5th year option. He is an unrestricted free agent and is going to command top dollar. Despite his injury problems, Penny not only had a very impressive last 6 weeks, he's a former first round pick. Someone is going to pay him, and it won't be a "prove it" contract. He's going to get a multiyear deal in the neighborhood of $10M a season.

Running backs have the shortest careers of any other position on the field. It simply does not make sense to pay a high risk player that kind of money when we already have one under contract and have so many other mouths to feed.

[Hawktawk]

Penny ain't gonna take a prove it deal, he's an unrestricted FA, someone's gonna be willing to pay him.

You may be right , probably are. But one thing is no doubt. As evaluators of talent JS and PC are totally vindicated in the selection. Some folks wont eat the crow they have earned. I've watched all the games twice and Penney had some plays in lots of games, just one or 2 touches. I forget the opponent but he went 20 on the first carry and his hamstring tightened up which I guess makes the nervous nellies point on his health.

I'm racking my memory regarding the 3 guys Id consider bell cow backs in our history. The great Curt Warner who missed all of his sophomore season with injury but still had a nice career. Honorable mention to Chris Warren who was a big fast man but not on the level of the other guys mentioned. SA was similar to Penney as a runner, a slippery north south big man, patient, great balance. But not elite top end speed and would trip over the 40 before taking a direct hit. I imagine Penney behind his line, Russ too

Then there was Lynch, our best ever , violent, elusive, underrated as a receiver. People forget he crapped out in 5 seasons here though and really hurt the team down the stretch in 2015.Carson is a decent to good back when healthy but really how often is he healthy? hes either out or nursing some nagging thing and the upside is peanuts compared to Penney. His plodding battering ram style gets him hurt. He played what? 4 games this year?

Bottom line I've never seen any back in our history put up numbers like Penney over this long a stretch, about 350 yards last 2 weeks. Over 135 yards in 4 of last 5 games. Hes playing at an elite level. If I'm PC and JS and I'm getting another year I will stay in the bidding quite a while before dropping out. This guy will make a huge difference IF HEALTHY. He was so good people forgot about Russ crapping the bed to the tune of 14 the other way. That's what a dominant run game can do for you.

[NorthHawk]

I think we'll make him an offer that's quite a bit more than he made this year, but I also think another team will offer more.
I think it's 50/50 he stays, but these last few weeks have made him a lot of money.

[Hawktawk]

Cbob is exactly right. There is no extending Penny. We opted out of that option when we declined to pick up his 5th year option. He is an unrestricted free agent and is going to command top dollar. Despite his injury problems, Penny not only had a very impressive last 6 weeks, he's a former first round pick. Someone is going to pay him, and it won't be a "prove it" contract. He's going to get a multiyear deal in the neighborhood of $10M a season.

Running backs have the shortest careers of any other position on the field. It simply does not make sense to pay a high risk player that kind of money when we already have one under contract and have so many other mouths to feed.

Someone is going to sign him. Why not us? besides it seems a month ago almost nobody thought he would be worth a damn or draw any interest There isn't another back quite like him right now.ELITE