We Need A Decision This Week!

[RiverDog]

For the umpteenth time, our team has not been a SB contender for the past 7 seasons. This current season is simply the coup de grace. And for the record, I've never said he'd be fired, just simply done as a coach, whether it be through resignation, retirement, re-assignment of duties, or whatever. Now at 5-10 after a Chicago Bears loss, it is so over.

If I want to be "persuaded" my writers of choice are always talking heads...especially if they say the things I want to hear. (severe sarcasm)

Seven years since a Super Bowl...as a complaint? Two teams out of 32 ever attain this goal each year...and its seldom repeated. So many factors take out even the best of teams...that "should of won it all". Just getting to the playoffs gives a team a fighting chance...a punchers chance. How many long tenure coaches has there been in the past 20 years? Don't complain about your team...the NFL is a business and is more to blame as it continues to use its scalpel to shape its product...TV revenue is all about selling advertising...if you think politics is plagued with lobbyists...with high stakes gambling added to those who represent major ad campaigns...your commissioner would have to be above reproach...is that even possible anymore??

Your goals/desires are strong opinions but seem unattainable based on so many things are out of the control of a fan...to the point of being wishes...not reality.

My reason for posting the remarks from the talking heads was simply to show that the topic isn't just something a few random Seahawk fans have been kicking around as was the implication. The sports shows, Twitter, Facebook, and other forums like this one have exploded, especially after the Bears loss. The story of Pete being on the hot seat has legs.

The players and coaches read and hear the same stories that we do, which is why I feel strongly that our owner needs to come out and make a decision now. The next two games, win or lose, will prove nothing as far as the coaching dilemma is concerned. They need to either chit or get off the toilet.

[Hawktawk]

Philly fired Doug Peterson 2 year after he won their first ever . Fired him and traded their franchise QB and they are likely playoffs bound . He is scheduled to interview in JAx . As for the Hawks and the Carroll era it’s a mini version of Shula . Great success early and less later on .

We have 3 playoff wins , all wild card and 5 losses since that fateful franchise turning pick on the 1 . The 3 wins are 10-9 vs Minnesota in freezing weather . A certain loss till Walsh pulled a chip shot . A dogfight with Detroit in 2016 . Missed entirely in 2017 . Beat the Eagles with 80 year old Josh McCown starting in a tight game . In our 5 losses we not been in the lead in the second half of 4 of them and in 3 they never had the lead . So we beat Teddy Bridgewater when his kicker missed from 20 or something . Stafford and Josh McCown since SB 49. We’ve lost non competetive games to guys like Cam Newton , Aaron Rodgers , Matt Ryan and Dak Prescott . Then last year we got dominated by a team starting a journeymen who got knocked out and Goff beat us with a broken throwing hand as our franchise guy was going 11-29 with a pick 6. Regular season success aside this is a fart in the wind of a team when it matters . Now we’re 5-10 maybe gonna be worse . Now what ? What have you done lately ?

[TriCitySam]

“For the umpteenth time...”

And I completely disagree. If you think removing Pete as head coach is not firing him, it leaves me speechless. That’s exactly what your saying. As does the idea that his record over the past 7 seasons is unacceptable. Be a Jets fan for a while. You think it’s ok to have 5 losing seasons for 1 SB run. That’s where we disagree. I do not, I want a consistent competitor. If you are you have a chance. Pete’s been a consistent winner and it will be a long hard road to find another one as good. I thought Mike Salk nailed it in his first segment yesterday. People think you can hire a hot coordinator as a head coach and things will change and it doesn’t. Changes yeah, Pete no. By these standards; there should be 28 coaching changes each year. Over the pad 7 seasons who has more playoff wins than Pete? Belichick and Reid. Just two. Not Harbaugh, not Payton, not Tomlin. Fire them all. And both McVay and Shanahan have yet to equal Pete’s playoff record.

[RiverDog]

“For the umpteenth time...”

And I completely disagree. If you think removing Pete as head coach is not firing him, it leaves me speechless. That’s exactly what your saying. As does the idea that his record over the past 7 seasons is unacceptable. Be a Jets fan for a while. You think it’s ok to have 5 losing seasons for 1 SB run. That’s where we disagree. I do not, I want a consistent competitor. If you are you have a chance. Pete’s been a consistent winner and it will be a long hard road to find another one as good. I thought Mike Salk nailed it in his first segment yesterday. People think you can hire a hot coordinator as a head coach and things will change and it doesn’t. Changes yeah, Pete no. By these standards; there should be 28 coaching changes each year. Over the pad 7 seasons who has more playoff wins than Pete? Belichick and Reid. Just two. Not Harbaugh, not Payton, not Tomlin. Fire them all. And both McVay and Shanahan have yet to equal Pete’s playoff record.

You've made your position on this matter very clear and have made some good points supporting your side of the argument, and it's OK that you disagree with those of us calling for Pete's removal. But please don't frame our side of the argument by creating a false narrative that the group of us in here that are calling for his departure wish so because of one losing season and linking our opinions with "some owners that are not very bright". Speaking for the others, our frustrations go far beyond the results of the past 15 games and our opinions are shared by more than just a few "not very bright owners".

As far as your ascertain that I "think removing Pete as head coach is not firing him", here's what I said regarding that subject earlier in this thread:

Pete is obviously an intelligent and highly sensitive person and strikes me as a man that can be reasoned with and view the situation from management's POV. It (his removal) doesn't have to be a confrontational, "don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya" type of conversation, rather laying out the teams' concerns, offer to allow him to finish out the season if he so wishes, perhaps even give him some input on his replacement. At least that's how I'd handle it if I were in her shoes.

Call it what you want or handle it how you like, a retirement, a resignation, or re-assignment of duties. My point is that it can and should be done in a manner that allows Pete to retain as much dignity surrounding his departure as possible.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete Carroll doesn't get to the Super Bowl much less win one without Russell Wilson. Period. Pete built the team to a point where we were a QB away from contention. He built that team a certain way that he seems to have forgotten how to do. He is not the same Pete Carroll that came to Seattle 10 years ago building the most amazing team and one of the best defenses of all time. He's now Pete Carroll who thinks we're a few players away from a Super Bowl that has been trading away draft capital for old veterans and shiny toy players that don't work out and just mess up our salary cap as well as piss of the locker room. Pete's lost his way from that guy who turned over every rock to find talent and made low cost trades for high value players like Chris Clemons and Marshawn Lynch.

Nearly every head coach in history runs out of steam. And Pete is 70. I don't think he has another rebuild and run in him. So we should let him retire and get a young, hungry guy in here while Russ has some years left in him. Rejuvenate the team and ruthlessly rebuild it like we need to do.

[RiverDog]

Pete Carroll doesn't get to the Super Bowl much less win one without Russell Wilson. Period. Pete built the team to a point where we were a QB away from contention. He built that team a certain way that he seems to have forgotten how to do. He is not the same Pete Carroll that came to Seattle 10 years ago building the most amazing team and one of the best defenses of all time. He's not Pete Carroll who thinks we're a few players away from a Super Bowl that has been trading away draft capital for old veterans and shiny toy players that don't work out and just mess up our salary cap as well as piss of the locker room. Pete's lost his way from that guy who turned over every rock to find talent and made low cost trades for high value players like Chris Clemons and Marshawn Lynch.

Nearly every head coach in history runs out of steam. And Pete is 70. I don't think he has another rebuild and run in him. So we should let him retire and get a young, hungry guy in here while Russ has some years left in him. Rejuvenate the team and ruthlessly rebuild it like we need to do.

Russell was definitely the player that put us over the top, but his real contribution was that he was on a 3rd round rookie contract making peanuts compared to other starting QB's. This allowed Pete to go out and get guys like Bennett and Avril. Other quarterbacks could have done what Russell did in those early years, but not at his price.

[Hawktawk]

A young guy like Tyler Hundley is playing at a higher level than Russ now too along with the fact Russ is a 35 million dollar man . Davis Mills has played at a higher level last 2 games .Joe Burroughs put up
525 yards with 4 tds and no picks . RD you are correct . The winning happened on Russels Rookie deal . Lots of regular seasons did improve because of 30 million Russ too but now that’s gone . I watched the bears game again from the treadmill and boy can I walk fast getting angry watching a 5 time castoff named starter on Friday be twice the NFL field general Russ was and has been . And our maligned line was keeping Russ clean and blowing open huge holes while Foles got the crap knocked out of him all night . But he’s dropping dimes and we’re sailing balls . I get those who pine for what once was. A playoff win every 5 years isn’t good enough for this fan .

[obiken]

Russell was definitely the player that put us over the top, but his real contribution was that he was on a 3rd round rookie contract making peanuts compared to other starting QB's. This allowed Pete to go out and get guys like Bennett and Avril. Other quarterbacks could have done what Russell did in those early years, but not at his price.

Right RW was the best bargain sports for years. On the other hand River, he carried this team for 5 years with a mutt food running game and Oline.

[Hawktawk]

Right RW was the best bargain sports for years. On the other hand River, he carried this team for 5 years with a mutt food running game and Oline.

Absolutely correct. To be fair to Russ he was a big part of winning lots of games in his rookie deal too including playing his best ever playoff game performance in the biggest game of all. Flawless. Then somewhere along the line came the celebrity and the hip hop and the outside interests and the legs got slower. Now the focus seems off as well as accuracy in critical moments. We cant ever forget what Russ did here though.

[tarlhawk]

Russell Wilson is not a past tense elite QB. Anyone watching the 49er game (a game that mattered at the time) saw vintage RW slinging the ball with timing and accuracy...proving he can still get it done. I don't care to respond to those who still find ways to excuse the 49er loss...the point is RW showed no rust and confident decision making. He must have some personal issues which I think are some personal demons to slay...whether its covid or the loss of his life coach. Life is bigger than sports...and from work I've met many a happy season ticket holder over the past 10 years.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russell was definitely the player that put us over the top, but his real contribution was that he was on a 3rd round rookie contract making peanuts compared to other starting QB's. This allowed Pete to go out and get guys like Bennett and Avril. Other quarterbacks could have done what Russell did in those early years, but not at his price.

No. Bennett and Avril were not expensive. Cost us no draft capital. They were the type of moves I was talking about where Pete and John find low cost, underrated talent that the league has over-looked. Not shiny toy trades.

And that wasn't Russell's real contribution. You're absolutely nuts if you believe that trash you wrote. Tarvaris Jackson was cheap. You think Tarvaris Jackson is taking us to the Super Bowl much less keeping us in contention for 9 years? Get real. It was not Russell's cheap contract that got us to the Super Bowl. It was drafting elite talent at key positions and finding cheap, low priced free agents the league overlooked like Bennet and Avril as well as making low cost trades for talent the league overlooked like Lynch. Pete and John were making all these moves that were low cost, high reward moves. Now they're making high cost, low reward moves. Not drafting well. They are basically doing the opposite of what they did before.

Russell has broken every Seahawks positive record for a QB. He's kept us competitive when this defense was falling apart. Russell's biggest contribution is being an elite QB that can keep a team in contention even when the pieces around him are terrible and take an elite team to a Super Bowl or two and win.

Man, you guys sure forget how good Russell is quick.

Did you guys forget that we went to Super Bowl number 2 with a no name WR that isn't even in the league any more, Doug Baldwin, and Ricard Lockette? Get real. Russell Wilson is an elite QB that carried this team for the past 4 years since our defense fell apart as the Legion moved on due to money issues or injuries. Don't get things twisted because of one bad year with an injury. Get a grip.

[Hawktawk]

Let’s talk SB 2 and Russell’s role . He was absolutely a huge part of getting us to the NFC title game . But he threw 4 picks and put up no points for a good portion of the game . It was only 2 incredible special teams plays including a punter throwing a touchdown to an O lineman and an incredible onside kick that made it possible for Russ to deliver a win with the second worst statistical winning playoff QBR in history . He did make incredible plays late to win . But the infamous sports illustrated article details how angry the defense was to see Russ featured on the podium after what he had put the team through .

Then there was the throw from the 1in the super bowl , a slow aimed throw far too high and in front . With everything else wrong with the play if the ball is on the receivers body it’s a touchdown . Russels early years were a time when games he won in the postseason would have been losses without the Lob . The NFC championship in 2013 was a good example . Russ gave up a strip sack the D held to 3 . In the end Sherman made the greatest play in Seahawks history . It’s a team game and Russ was a huge talented piece of it but hardly the only reason for all the early success . Now it’s not about disrespecting who he was . It’s about trying to figure out who he is now . And don’t disparage DJack . He was a great hawk who could tap toes like Lockette

[tarlhawk]

Pete built the team to a point where we were a QB away from contention. He built that team a certain way that he seems to have forgotten how to do. He is not the same Pete Carroll that came to Seattle 10 years ago building the most amazing team and one of the best defenses of all time. So we should let him retire and get a young, hungry guy in here while Russ has some years left in him. Rejuvenate the team and ruthlessly rebuild it like we need to do.

Hmmm a young hungry guy...do you really think those type of guys are just waiting to be called by Seattle? Look around the NFL...its a coaching carousel out there with owners desperate to see their team climb out of the mire of complication that involves being a successful coach. Some of the comments made are more like unfulfilled wishes than reality.

Do you really think a major city like New York hasn't been in the hunt for a coach to rescue their bottom feeder team? With all their high selected draft picks just over the past 5 years alone they should have been replacing New England instead of gifting them with two wins year after year. Only in 2013 and 2015 have they even split a series with the Patriots...and I only went back to 2012. In the past 6 years alone the NY Jets accomplished one high mark of 7 games won (2019).

In our own NFC West Division (starting in 2012)...the Rams made it to only 3 play offs with one of those (2018) leading to a SB loss. 49ers? 3 playoffs with two of them leading to SB losses (2012/2019)...and the Cardinals? No SB appearances and only two playoff appearances in the last 10 years. Our own team?? ... playoffs every year (9 times) except 2017 where our 9-7 record didn't get us in the door...2 of those 9 led to back to back SB (2013/2014) with 2013 a stomping of the highest scoring NFL offense team (Denver Broncos)

Why compare the past 5 years of drafting to the first 5 years when Pete Carrol and John Schneider arrived as if this justifies ire. Mike Holmgren coached for 8 years and built up the talent base of our roster before leaving...2 years later Pete arrived as Executive Vice President/GM and Coach with John Schneider in a GM advisory role. Together they churned the roster to create one of the youngest successful teams in the NFL (almost 200 transactions) and benefited in the 2010 Draft from the previous 2009 season (5-11) of Jim Mora as coach. He focused on transforming the Defense while gathering pieces for his offense. Key players...many drafted in lower draft rounds...still aided by having high selections in each round (not just the first Rd).

The talent base was not only at its zenith...but at its youngest. Cap use was very low since your youngest stars are playing on rookie contracts. 2012 -2016 (winning seasons of 11/13/12/10/10 victories) slowly ate at the draft success that could be found with selections from the bottoms of each draft round.

Especially the 2014 and 2015 drafts (which followed our two SB appearances in 2013/2014) but since our team was very young the cash flow didn't slow down until our younger guys started earning well-paid 2nd contracts. The 2014 SB loss kept the "next SB season" pursuit always taunting us to take chances.

Injuries are the bane of every NFL team and we were struck as hard as any other but we kept winning because in 2013 we drafted our Franchise QB...who quickly developed from being called a game manager into elite status. Elite QB create winning strings in seasons because they help your team win those close games that matter. Pete's success and Russell's success are tied together by a confident bond of a strong will to win. John Schneider was awarded the title/position of Executive Vice President/General Manager in 2013 where he drove personnel decisions with Pete Carrol as Executive Vice President of Football Operations able to "veto".

[Aseahawkfan]

Let’s talk SB 2 and Russell’s role . He was absolutely a huge part of getting us to the NFC title game . But he threw 4 picks and put up no points for a good portion of the game . It was only 2 incredible special teams plays including a punter throwing a touchdown to an O lineman and an incredible onside kick that made it possible for Russ to deliver a win with the second worst statistical winning playoff QBR in history . He did make incredible plays late to win . But the infamous sports illustrated article details how angry the defense was to see Russ featured on the podium after what he had put the team through .

Then there was the throw from the 1in the super bowl , a slow aimed throw far too high and in front . With everything else wrong with the play if the ball is on the receivers body it’s a touchdown . Russels early years were a time when games he won in the postseason would have been losses without the Lob . The NFC championship in 2013 was a good example . Russ gave up a strip sack the D held to 3 . In the end Sherman made the greatest play in Seahawks history . It’s a team game and Russ was a huge talented piece of it but hardly the only reason for all the early success . Now it’s not about disrespecting who he was . It’s about trying to figure out who he is now . And don’t disparage DJack . He was a great hawk who could tap toes like Lockette

And we wouldn't have been in the game if Russell didn't throw 2 TDs to a no named receiver that isn't even in the league any more.

You are forgetting how good Russell is throwing him under the bus. It's ridiculous.

DJack wasn't there. Don't you remember the Patriots Super Bowl? Russ was throwing touchdowns to this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Matthews_(gridiron_football) to keep us in the game.

You have forgotten how good Russell Wilson is like a lot of "what have you done for me lately" Seahawk fans.

I think Russell Wilson has more in the tank than Pete Carroll. Love Pete. Love the hunger he brought when he first got here to remake his name in the NFL. I consider him our greatest coach. But he's 70. I don't feel he's up to a rebuild. I think he was hoping to retire with one more run taking desperate shots at shiny toy players to make it happen. We need a guy whose going to look at this team without any attachment to any player and gut it and rebuild it.

For me Bobby is all done. Even with all his tackles, he isn't Bobby any more. He isn't worth 18 million a year. Jamal Adams trade is a failure. He's not going to last in the NFL getting injured like he is this early in his career. And the drafting and trade management has been bad. The only pieces have that are salvageable at this point is Russ and the receivers. Maybe a few of the O-line guys. Everyone else I would look at as expendable.

That's how I see it. I might even let Schneider take a shot at GM without Pete. He knows what to do. I think Pete is the guy who can't let go that he isn't as close to contention as he believes.

[Hawktawk]

You say Russ is great . I say he was . At least right now he’s not remotely the same player . It’s not about what he did . It’s about what he’s got in the tank . I heard Jimmy Johnson say the other day “ if a guy says he wants a trade you better trade him ASAP “ I agree . Completely on board with Wags . Despite his tackle records too many are past the sticks now . He’s getting beat which is a big part of our soft middle defense . He and Russ are the only pieces with value . But both are slipping . I don’t think either is going to help us get back where we want to be .

[tarlhawk]

For me Bobby is all done. Even with all his tackles, he isn't Bobby any more. He isn't worth 18 million a year. Jamal Adams trade is a failure. He's not going to last in the NFL getting injured like he is this early in his career. And the drafting and trade management has been bad. The only pieces have that are salvageable at this point is Russ and the receivers. Maybe a few of the O-line guys. Everyone else I would look at as expendable. That's how I see it. I might even let Schneider take a shot at GM without Pete. He knows what to do. I think Pete is the guy who can't let go that he isn't as close to contention as he believes.

So many naysayers...so little time. I sometimes have to remind myself that fans are merely expressing opinions of disappointment and seldom represent the minds of people who actually know how to own a business...make difficult personnel decisions...recognize/trust success while looking at the myriad of influences that shape modern sports...coach a team of competitive athletes to think like a team whose success depends on each individual not letting their team mates down. Some call it "buy in" which sounds more like being conned into doing something instead of being inspired when the chips are down...or more simply put...TO BELIEVE.

Being a fan is a commitment to trust those who are actually placed in positions we feel we should have an opinion on. These positions are financially tied to the business of guiding a modern NFL franchise to repeated success. These "expensive contracts" are paid by decision makers who are part of a successful organization. So many things occur and are decided without a fan having any idea of what is at play...even players are excluded from the powerful details that impact their lives. Ownership decides the levels of authority entrusted to steer the desired outcomes that reward future profits. Without authority there is chaos...why so many second guess assessments in areas with proven outcomes.

Its amazing so many post gripes/complaints that downplay the wins we do achieve...they find excuses for demeaning our wins...they research any "dirt"/"negativity to feel justified in their displeasure...example- we won the final 9 games of a season...Yay right? No we only won because we played poor teams plagued with back-up QBs...just watch when my prediction of team collapse comes true. Each NFL team has the tools to succeed...when your team is one of the few to do it consistently be happy for once. So many people are "feasting" on the misery of a season that rarely comes to us.

[c_hawkbob]

There are those of us that agree with you Tarl

[Hawktawk]

Lol so the legends agree as much as we do.