Running back roster

[Hawktawk]

In the wreckage of a season in shambles there have been some interesting distractions . I was glad we signed Carson and then sure enough he was hurt again . But that development allowed us to see what kind of depth we had at the position . This is my analysis of the current guys . Alex Collins can be very good at times . He’s got great moves and runs hard . I think he may be a bit light to run between the tackles as his injuries show. Homer is similar although he hasn’t had the touches . He’s sneaky quick , smart . He’s obviously a special teams beast . The other 2 are fascinating . Penney had me drooling a couple of years ago when he was eating into Carson’s carries and making explosive plays. Then the injuries. Then after 2 years he gets in the field . Goes almost 20 on the first run then gone with a tight hamstring . A few weeks later he was back , ineffective until the 9ers game where he went off a couple times and affected the game . Then vs the Texans , a bad team to be sure but he demonstrated elite speed and power in a dominant performance . Against the Rams he was good . Just missed a house call on his first carry and he was still gaining speed 10 yards down the field when he got tackled . Penney has demonstrated in the last 3 weeks that he still has rare speed for a big powerful man. Obviously his health is a question . But if this guy stays healthy he’s going to be a problem for anyone he faces and perhaps make people understand why he was taken so high . But the guy currently getting my attention is Dee Jay . He’s been returning kicks and really not doing too bad but his production in games was limited . Tuesday he was a man , moving the pile , leading the team in rushing and also catching 5 passes . 6 would have been nice but I think Dee Jay became an NFL running back in that game . I don’t even mind the ball kick . That kid played his ass off and got screwed . I liked it . Lost season but I liked the passion. My bottom line this doesn’t look like an empty cupboard in the position group

[trents]

I think it's really difficult to say too much about our running backs because our passing game is not being respected. Teams are loading the box against the run more and more often. We've had some success running with the jumbo package to counter that.

[RiverDog]

I didn't like the Penny selection because we burned a #1 pick on a 2 down position. As Chris Carson proved, there's some really good finds on the 2nd and 3rd days of the draft that doesn't necessitate spending a first round pick. As in the case with the Adams trade, my objection was more about the position than it was the player. Running backs have a shorter career and are more prone to injury than other positions. As the selection of Chris Carson proved, there are some really good finds on the 3rd and 4th days of the draft. Unless they are a once in a generation running back available, like a Saquan Barkley or Derrick Henry, I don't like spending that high of a draft pick on the position. We declined his 5th year option so these last few games will very likely be his last as there's no way we're going to pay him what he can find in the FA market so we can have two highly paid running backs to sit in the hot tub.

I'm with you about DJ Dallas, and there's another example of a great find in the middle to lower rounds of the draft. Dallas was a 4th round selection.

[NorthHawk]

We can't depend on Carson or Penny to be available. Neither have shown the ability to stay healthy.
I love the way Carson plays, but that style means injuries and he's coming off of a neck injury which we should be concerned about.
I would like to get a bell cow RB. Someone who can pound the rock all day and break off some big runs. Those types are usually
found in the late 1st or 2nd rounds. Sometimes they fall to the the 3rd and rarely do they end up at the bottom of the draft.

[RiverDog]

We can't depend on Carson or Penny to be available. Neither have shown the ability to stay healthy.
I love the way Carson plays, but that style means injuries and he's coming off of a neck injury which we should be concerned about.
I would like to get a bell cow RB. Someone who can pound the rock all day and break off some big runs. Those types are usually
found in the late 1st or 2nd rounds. Sometimes they fall to the the 3rd and rarely do they end up at the bottom of the draft.

It seems that even the best running backs get injured alot. McCaffery, Barkley, Chubb, Henry, Jacobs, have all missed significant time this season. And none of those players, who are almost without question top flight running backs, have ever helped their team get to a conference championship game, let alone the Super Bowl and a Lombardi.

I just don't think it's worth a first round pick for a position that under most circumstances is not on the field for 3 downs in a series, prone to injury more than other positions, and have a short shelf life unless there's a once in a generation, slam dunk RB that's worth the risk, and certainly Penny wasn't that kind of player coming out of college.

[tarlhawk]

Our RB room seems incomplete with injuries so prevalent with our three best feature backs. DJ Dallas had a good career at Miami University without much collegiate recognition. He hasn't had the number of carries to see how he would hold up long term if made a feature back but he has some burst and is a reliable pass option.

Travis Homer has buffed up to take full advantage of his ability to block for RW on obvious passing plays...he displays speed and would get more plays/snaps (beyond the draw plays he accumulates most of his running on) if he could break more tackles.

Alex Collins is a feature back with high collegiate recognition (who we drafted with CJ Procise)...who we were lucky to get back after cutting him in 2017 instead of Eddie Lacy (washed up career) and CJ Procise (not yet exposed to injury)who looked like lightening in a bottle until his untimely injuries flashed.

Rashaad Penny has all the talent to be a great feature back who explodes thru an open gap when the O-Line is firing on all cylinders...my hope is the "open market" is scared off by his injury history and we get him back at a team friendly cost...like Alex Collins.

Chris Carson has all the tools we're looking for as far as play style...so much depends on his response/recovery from successful neck surgery. We need at least two feature backs to rotate in an effort to expose Carson to less risk until he clears a year of good health.

Adrian Petersen was good as a role model for our young backs (Penny included) but I really felt Todd Gurley offered value as a rotational back if he could pass a physical (bad knees).

I expect our 3rd Rd Pick (if an RB drops out of 1rst/2nd Rds) or our 5th Rd Pick (for a runner we might have our eyes on from the get go)...definitely some RBs need drafted or picked up as undrafted...

[RiverDog]

I expect our 3rd Rd Pick (if an RB drops out of 1rst/2nd Rds) or our 5th Rd Pick (for a runner we might have our eyes on from the get go)...definitely some RBs need drafted or picked up as undrafted...

I could handle that. I just don't like spending our first pick on a player that due to the nature of the position (2 downs) and risk of injury.

I do like what we've seen recently out of DJ Dallas.

[Hawktawk]

I think it's really difficult to say too much about our running backs because our passing game is not being respected. Teams are loading the box against the run more and more often. We've had some success running with the jumbo package to counter that.

I know it’s a dead horse but Russ has quit running out of the read option so it’s just a handoff into a wall of defenders . That’s fine against the Texans but Rams not so much . I thought Penney and more so Dee Jay were heroic . They averaged 4ypc vs a great D and many of the yards were well after contact . Injuries are obviously a huge concern . As RD points out all the first round studs have missed time as well. Hopefully playing 3 more games we can get a 2022 audition out of these guys . If Penney stays healthy rest of the way and performs at a productive level keep him . If he goes down let him walk . I’m personally done with Carson . Love his power but talk about injuries . And it’s the neck on a guy who runs like a battering ram. I do agree with RD that first round picks are wasted on running backs minus a generational talent .

[NorthHawk]

I just don't think it's worth a first round pick for a position that under most circumstances is not on the field for 3 downs in a series, prone to injury more than other positions, and have a short shelf life unless there's a once in a generation, slam dunk RB that's worth the risk, and certainly Penny wasn't that kind of player coming out of college.

The best Offenses have good RB's and it's the threat of the run that makes play action work. We often go to 0 back sets so the Defense knows we aren't going to run.
On the other hand, the best Offenses don't do that and use the RB as a blocker, safety valve, runner, or run pass routes.

[Uppercut]

Ol Crappallo was not on the mark last night against the Titans. Probably will lead to rumors that RW will go to the Niners

[NorthHawk]

Ol Crappallo was not on the mark last night against the Titans. Probably will lead to rumors that RW will go to the Niners

They're in trouble at QB unless he gets real hot. I'm not sure Lance will be ready for another year as I think he's behind Justin Fields in development.
The Niners weren't on Russ's updated list of preferred destinations, but who knows?
Here's a Wilson trade scenario:
Trade Wilson to the Giants, take the bounty we get from the Giants and trade for DeShaun Watson of Houston.
3 teams win. The Giants get a franchise QB, Houston gets rid of Watson and gets more picks, and we replace Russell with a younger QB.
The fly in the ointment is Watson's legal issues. If it's only civil problems, that can be overcome, but if it's jail time then it wouldn't work.

[trents]

Maybe we should go back to old days where you had a halfback and a fullback, a' la Paul Hornung and Jim Taylor, sharing carries in order to reduce the wear and tear on any one running back. Seems like I don't remember so many injuries back then.

[NorthHawk]

Maybe we should go back to old days where you had a halfback and a fullback, a' la Paul Hornung and Jim Taylor, sharing carries in order to reduce the wear and tear on any one running back. Seems like I don't remember so many injuries back then.

I think that was supposed to be the plan with Carson and Penny but with both injured...

[trents]

Literally, the jury is still out on DeShaun Watson and until there is some clarity on his off field issues I wouldn't touch him with a 10 ft. pole. And if there is any truth to those accusations, more than likely we would see a repeat offender over time. Don't want that cloud.

[tarlhawk]

I could handle that. I just don't like spending our first pick on a player that due to the nature of the position (2 downs) and risk of injury.

I do like what we've seen recently out of DJ Dallas.

I think the higher pick in Penny's case was we also were hoping to energize our ST returns (nothing like when Lockett manned them). The injuries kept us from wanting to expose Penny to more heavy hits.

[tarlhawk]

Maybe we should go back to old days where you had a halfback and a fullback, a' la Paul Hornung and Jim Taylor, sharing carries in order to reduce the wear and tear on any one running back. Seems like I don't remember so many injuries back then.

I don't think a fullback "fits" Waldron's playbook...since the Fullback formation would then need some passing plays out of its formation...otherwise you would give the opponent the obvious tip that its a running play. Perhaps some use of Dee Eskridge as a fly sweep runner in pre-snap motion with an empty backfield.

[Hawktawk]

Well Nick Bellore can play fullback if we need .
I want absolutely nothing to do with a sexual abuser of women in Watson . Whether civil or criminal it’s 20 plus people reporting sexual misconduct . People like that don’t change .

Look at someone like Davis Mills , a lower pick who set a record for completions to start a game as a rookie , hung with Seattle for a half on a really bad team with no roster then abused the Jags . The young guns are all over the league . Why sign up for more of this last calendar year out of this offense ? How about Minshew ? I’d kick the tires . I’ll take the abuse . I’d like to see a little more of Geno . Who is he ? A very average backup or a former high pick with 6’3” size , some mobility and a big arm ? Far more mature , Had studied film , not a turnover machine at all with Seattle . In hindsight Green Bay would have been a huge yardstick coming off a really nice clean game vs the Jags . But oh well. I think he’s the latter but we don’t know and probably never will as he is not signed past this year I don’t believe . My point is there are many ways to go . Look no further than RW himself in the 3rd . Brady in the 6th. The main decision is whether to move on or just hope this thing turns around and stay the course .

[RiverDog]

Maybe we should go back to old days where you had a halfback and a fullback, a' la Paul Hornung and Jim Taylor, sharing carries in order to reduce the wear and tear on any one running back. Seems like I don't remember so many injuries back then.

Now that would be interesting, wouldn't it? Do you suppose that at some point, the game begins to circle back around to what it was 50 years ago when the running back was king, two running backs each with over 1,000 yards in a 14 game season, and Bob Griese throwing the ball 12-15 times a game? Anything 3rd and 3 or less was a running down.

We got a little bit of a taste of what that might be like in the Bills-Pats game in that windstorm a couple of weeks ago.

[trents]

With the emphasis on passing in the modern NFL there are a lot more high speed collisions, even with the running backs who are frequently used as receivers.

[NorthHawk]

Literally, the jury is still out on DeShaun Watson and until there is some clarity on his off field issues I wouldn't touch him with a 10 ft. pole. And if there is any truth to those accusations, more than likely we would see a repeat offender over time. Don't want that cloud.

That's really the sticking point. I read somewhere that his criminal problems might not get to court, but that he would still be in trouble from a civil
point of view. If that's the case and he ends up paying money in a civil decision, it wouldn't be so bad.
But yah, you're right it's the biggest obstacle and probably why he hasn't been dealt yet.

[RiverDog]

Agreed about Watson. Way too much of a risk for anything close to what it would take to sign him.

Some folks over in the other forum I frequent are suggesting that if Russell leaves that we ought to make a move on Tyler Hundley, the backup to Lamar Jackson of the Ravens. Thoughts?

[Hawktawk]

Agreed about Watson. Way too much of a risk for anything close to what it would take to sign him.

Some folks over in the other forum I frequent are suggesting that if Russell leaves that we ought to make a move on Tyler Hundley, the backup to Lamar Jackson of the Ravens. Thoughts?

The Ravens are starting Hundley again this weekend. He might well be 2-0 and the Ravens have 2 more wins were it not for the dumb assed decision by Harbaugh to go for 2. Lamar Jackson looks to me to possibly be breaking down some. Hes held out for an ankle sprain which Russ played acceptably with a few times. Hell we run our guy out when he can't hold on to the ball . Point is I think the Ravens may want to hang on to Hundley as insurance.

Id bring him in in a heartbeat. Hes Lamar with a bit less speed but a better football intelligence.

[NorthHawk]

Huntley is on the Covid list now, so we are going to see someone else at QB.
I think Huntley is or rather can be a better overall QB than Jackson. If Jackson loses a step, he's not much of a QB, but when healthy he's a real weapon.
I distinguish the two qualities because I don't see much field generalship from Jackson, nor do I see much in the way of a high quality passer.
But when the protection breaks down and he's healthy, wow he's tough to stop. The good thing for the Ravens is Huntley is just like Jackson
but like you said without the speed, so they don't have to change their playbook. Someone is going to look at Huntley and think he can really help
their team improve. And they might be right but I think Baltimore will extract a fairly heavy price for him in draft picks.

[Hawktawk]

Rashard Penney is legit. Who knows what would have happened over the last couple of years if he was heathy . He’s run tough and taken a lot of hits . His blend of speed and power is rare . It was disgusting to waste that performance . He’s got more 30 yard runs in his career than Carson already and around a yard higher YPC.