Drafting Offensive Linemen

[NorthHawk]

I don't' think you can really evaluate the last 2 drafts at this point. There are some good players, but I think you really know how good they
can be in their 3rd year. This is Darrell Taylor's first year, so he shows some promise, Parkinson seems to have foot issues and I hope it isn't chronic,
we'll really see how Lewis does now that he's had 2 years albeit at 2 different positions. There is some hope for some of the draftees but the
interior of the OL has again been neglected and we need a RT as well.

[RiverDog]

I don't' think you can really evaluate the last 2 drafts at this point. There are some good players, but I think you really know how good they
can be in their 3rd year. This is Darrell Taylor's first year, so he shows some promise, Parkinson seems to have foot issues and I hope it isn't chronic,
we'll really see how Lewis does now that he's had 2 years albeit at 2 different positions. There is some hope for some of the draftees but the
interior of the OL has again been neglected and we need a RT as well.

There are some rare exceptions to your 3 year rule, such as Creed Humphrey with the Chiefs, but I agree in principle. Darrell Taylor is a good example.

[NorthHawk]

John Runyan, Packers LG - 6th round pick last year.
Lots of exceptions to my 3 year rule, but for most picks I think it's a fairly good time frame for development and evaluation.

[RiverDog]

John Runyan, Packers LG - 6th round pick last year. Lots of exceptions to my 3 year rule, but for most picks I think it's a fairly good time frame for development and evaluation.

The only exception on our current roster would be Metcalf and perhaps Lewis.

[Hawktawk]

I was just reading a bleacher report article on first round picks from 2021 teams would like to have back. A word of caution when I see the first guy listed is Tackle Alex Leatherwood. He was from Alabama and was also the 2020 Outland Trophy winner drafted 17 overall by the raiders. He was anticipated to step right in at RT and be a fixture but hes already been moved to right guard after posting a PFF grade of 41.0 with 7 sacks allowed and 13 penalties already his rookie year!!!!!
He and Brandon Parker who replaced him at R tackle have the highest pressure rate in the league.

There are 2 O linemen on the list, the other being #46 pick OT Jackson Carman to the Bengals who has only played in 38% of offensive snaps and is now benched completely for a 6th rounder from 2020 draft. To be fair there were line prospects still on the board who have performed better. But hasn't that kind of been Seattle's approach? draft lower and develop guys in house?

Long story longer you can spend capital on supposed can't miss linemen and wind up looking like a fool too.

[tarlhawk]

Long story longer you can spend capital on supposed can't miss linemen and wind up looking like a fool too.

If Seattle has a fault in their O-Line philosophy...its not renewing contracts of drafted and developed prospects...more misses than hits...granted...but when we do hit it would be nice to get a 2nd contract/3rd contract done. Best lines stay together long enough to form a chemistry. Once your team is blessed with an elite QB whose rookie contract is in the past...your financial capital limitations have to target a group to spend less on while counting on strong coaching to upgrade what you can afford. This isn't baseball where you can buy what you need as long as your ownership has deep pockets...choices must be made. Russel's play style has no doubt helped on skimming from our O-Line resources. As our Offensive Coordinator blends in more schemes to give RW some quick release options to regain his confidence in staying in the pocket longer...then RW has weapons to work with...a good rushing attack is a benefit not a stale hindrance.

[tarlhawk]

According to some, Parkinson is a "hit" of a draft pick.

Colby Parkinson had pre-draft value as a Red Zone target (as he was used in Stanford). He was rated as one of three TE coming out. As an in-line blocker his value drops compared to Everette and Dissly...and as a Red Zone target he has the misfortune of both of our WR play makers DK / Tyler and TE Everette already being strong Red Zone Targets.

[RiverDog]

According to some, Parkinson is a "hit" of a draft pick.

Colby Parkinson had pre-draft value as a Red Zone target (as he was used in Stanford). He was rated as one of three TE coming out. As an in-line blocker his value drops compared to Everette and Dissly...and as a Red Zone target he has the misfortune of both of our WR play makers DK / Tyler and TE Everette already being strong Red Zone Targets.

So in other words, another wasted pick.

The object of the draft isn't to find/develop good players, it's finding good players that can contribute to your team winning football games. Parkinson could one day wind up being the best TE in that draft, but if he doesn't help us win games, then IMO it's a wasted pick.

We had a log jam of tight ends, with Dissly, Jacob Hollister, and Greg Olsen also on the roster when we drafted Parkinson, then this season, we go out and sign Gerald Everett, so we created a situation where we didn't/don't need Parkinson, yet we spent a #4 on him. That's one of the problems I have in following strictly a BPA philosophy and not taking into consideration our short term needs.

[tarlhawk]

So in other words, another wasted pick.
The object of the draft isn't to find/develop good players, it's finding good players that can contribute to your team winning football games. Parkinson could one day wind up being the best TE in that draft, but if he doesn't help us win games, then IMO it's a wasted pick.
We had a log jam of tight ends, with Dissly and Greg Olsen also on the roster when we drafted Parkinson, then this season, we go out and sign Gerald Everett, so we created a situation where we didn't/don't need Parkinson, yet we spent a #4 on him.

With our injury history and Olsen on the way out and Jacob Hollister and Dissly reamining we had room for a third (Olsen was a one year 7 million cap hit). You want three TE...so with Colby drafted almost a year before we signed Gerald Everette and a year before we swapped Schottie for Waldron as O.C.s...it wasn't a wasted draft pick. Everette was no doubt added as a favor to Waldron with an understanding of type of offense Waldron would be mixing in. Your GM drafts not only based on the present but to the future...would Marquise Blair been drafted knowing (by crystal ball) we would grab Jamal Adams? Most "wasted draft picks" are with hindsight...not vision at time of the draft selection. Colby is 24 and is signed thru 2023...so labeling him as a busted draft pick is a bit premature.

[RiverDog]

So in other words, another wasted pick.
The object of the draft isn't to find/develop good players, it's finding good players that can contribute to your team winning football games. Parkinson could one day wind up being the best TE in that draft, but if he doesn't help us win games, then IMO it's a wasted pick.
We had a log jam of tight ends, with Dissly and Greg Olsen also on the roster when we drafted Parkinson, then this season, we go out and sign Gerald Everett, so we created a situation where we didn't/don't need Parkinson, yet we spent a #4 on him.

With our injury history and Olsen on the way out and Jacob Hollister and Dissly reamining we had room for a third (Olsen was a one year 7 million cap hit). You want three TE...so with Colby drafted almost a year before we signed Gerald Everette and a year before we swapped Schottie for Waldron as O.C.s...it wasn't a wasted draft pick. Everette was no doubt added as a favor to Waldron with an understanding of type of offense Waldron would be mixing in. Your GM drafts not only based on the present but to the future...would Marquise Blair been drafted knowing (by crystal ball) we would grab Jamal Adams? Most "wasted draft picks" are with hindsight...not vision at time of the draft selection. Colby is 24 and is signed thru 2023...so labeling him as a busted draft pick is a bit premature.

Well, our "crystal ball" hasn't turned out to be too good. If Blair had been a "hit" and contributed immediately or at least gave us confidence that we'd found a real gem, then there wouldn't have been the need for us to trade for Adams.

And I agree with it being too early to be labeling Parkinson a "bust". You brought up his name and it reminded me of what I was thinking when we started overstock our roster with tight ends.

[tarlhawk]

Well, our "crystal ball" hasn't turned out to be too good. If Blair had been a "hit" and contributed immediately or at least gave us confidence that we'd found a real gem, then there wouldn't have been the need for us to trade for Adams.
And I agree with it being too early to be labeling Parkinson a "bust". You brought up his name and it reminded me of what I was thinking when we started overstock our roster with tight ends.

Crystal balls are like paid psychics...you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. When Blair was drafted...he had McDougald to beat...but with injury couldn't do that...now with Jamal Adams hurt...Marquise is unable to get in even those few games. The Nickle CB role he competed with Amadi for was not a position of choice but a means of developement...but some players are dogged with injury it seems.

As for an overstock of TE's...Waldron has given us scheme alignments utilizing two TE who can run block as well as perform a variety of routes...so perhaps carrying four TE would be prudent.

[RiverDog]

Crystal balls are like paid psychics...you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. When Blair was drafted...he had McDougald to beat...but with injury couldn't do that...now with Jamal Adams hurt...Marquise is unable to get in even those few games. The Nickle CB role he competed with Amadi for was not a position of choice but a means of developement...but some players are dogged with injury it seems.

As for an overstock of TE's...Waldron has given us scheme alignments utilizing two TE who can run block as well as perform a variety of routes...so perhaps carrying four TE would be prudent.

My problem with our drafting, as I stated in the OP, is that we are neglecting the offensive line. I am giving you some examples of priorities that we've established at other positions and dedicate resources to them, such as tight ends, but we don't assign a similar priority to the offensive line. Since when did we throw as much money at a FA offensive lineman as we have a tight end like Greg Olsen? We don't dedicate draft picks to the OL and we are not active on the FA market for them, and it's gotten worse over the past 4 years at a time when we should be adjusting our philosophy to the fact that our aging QB is not going to be able to cover for their deficiencies as he has been in the past.

[tarlhawk]

My problem with our drafting, as I stated in the OP, is that we are neglecting the offensive line. I am giving you some examples of priorities that we've established at other positions and dedicate resources to them, such as tight ends, but we don't assign a similar priority to the offensive line. Since when did we throw as much money at a FA offensive lineman as we have a tight end like Greg Olsen? We don't dedicate draft picks to the OL and we are not active on the FA market for them, and it's gotten worse over the past 4 years at a time when we should be adjusting our philosophy to the fact that our aging QB is not going to be able to cover for their deficiencies as he has been in the past.

How about trades involving Draft capital and contract money ?? ...in past 4 yrs specified. LT Duane Brown did not come cheap...We traded for him mid-season 2017 for a 2018 5th Rd Pick/ a 2019 2nd Rd Pick and threw in CB Jeremy Lane. In 2018 he was signed to a 3 yr extension for 34.5 million and re-negotiated 2021 contract of 4 million base with a 7 million signing bonus. Gabe Jackson trade cost us a 2021 5th Rd Pick and gave him a 3 yr contract of 22.6 million with a 9 million signing bonus.

These cap hits were 2018 8.3 million/2019 10.9 million/2020 12.8 million and 2021 9.9 million for Duane Brown and 2021 4 million/2022 9 million and 2023 9.5 million for Gabe Jackson. You can make a good claim for lacking drafted O-Linemen (our GM has little wriggle room) ...but you can't go all-in on the O-Line being ignored idea either.

Our next draft holds promise and Mike Solari has provided hope in the O-Line coaching dept. A balanced running attack takes some of the heat off our O-Line and will tame some of our opponents D-Line aggression.

[NorthHawk]

All those trades for OL shows that we can't draft and develop them.
Outside of Okung and maybe Lewis, who have we drafted, developed into a solid player along the OL, and re-signed for a 2nd or 3rd contract?
We developed Glowinski then didn't have the foresight to see he could be a good player so let him go to the Colts and be a solid starter on a
very good OL. We developed Carpenter into a serviceable Guard and let him go to play well on other teams. Maybe Forsythe and Curhan can
turn into something. That's still possible, but our track record isn't good doing that so it's hard to think anything will suddenly change. We've
almost become the place where OL go to die and young OL get ruined.

[trents]

Parkinson has played in a few snaps late in this season for Seattle. Another guy with the injury bug I believe.

[RiverDog]

Parkinson has played in a few snaps late in this season for Seattle. Another guy with the injury bug I believe.

He had 8 snaps vs. the Texans, 7 vs. the Niners. On the season, he's had two receptions for 7 yards. Here's his game logs:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... rkCo02.htm

It looks as if he's been available but that we're not using him.

[NorthHawk]

Yah, not using TE's. It's a familiar refrain.
We do have some games and Everett has been used more, but we've had stretches in the past 7 or 8 years when we rarely found the TE's outside of a few plays.

[RiverDog]

Yah, not using TE's. It's a familiar refrain. We do have some games and Everett has been used more, but we've had stretches in the past 7 or 8 years when we rarely found the TE's outside of a few plays.

Yuppers. Yet we keep pouring resources into them. I thought that Dissly would be utilized a little more often, but it hasn't happened.

[Hawktawk]

Maybe today is the day . Lockette and Homer out for sure . If Russ wasn’t stressed enough his esp receiver isn’t playing . Let’s see what we have in our other guys . Next man up. It won’t get Seattle in the postseason but they have to win this game or they are a complete joke cellar dwellers with the Rams living rent free in their heads . A win keeps the winning season streak alive and makes it odds on in Vegas week 18 will matter . We are playing the best team in the division right now in 2 hours . It’s a measuring stick .

[NorthHawk]

So I guess this means our WRs are DK, Swain, and Eskridge.
Am i missing someone?

[tarlhawk]

All those trades for OL shows that we can't draft and develop them.
Outside of Okung and maybe Lewis, who have we drafted, developed into a solid player along the OL, and re-signed for a 2nd or 3rd contract?
We developed Glowinski then didn't have the foresight to see he could be a good player so let him go to the Colts and be a solid starter on a
very good OL. We developed Carpenter into a serviceable Guard and let him go to play well on other teams. Maybe Forsythe and Curhan can
turn into something. That's still possible, but our track record isn't good doing that so it's hard to think anything will suddenly change. We've
almost become the place where OL go to die and young OL get ruined.

Carpenter and Glowinski were both under Tom Cable. Mike Solari can't develop injured players...I wasn't using injuries as an excuse...when we really needed both J.Jones and P.Haynes to be "next man up"...their injuries kept them out for the most part. The trade for D. Brown was forced by an injury to T George Fant (2017) and the ineffectiveness of Reese Odhiambo . Glowinski couldn't fill in for LG Luke Joekel and lost his RG spot to Oday Aboushi (also in 2017). Brown gave RW under Schottie (2018) to open up the passing game so it was money well spent.

Gabe Jackson was a good pick up for helping RW get a steady pass pro guy added to the O-line...but has hurt Damien Lewis in his anticipated 2nd year jump in ability by Damien switching to the left Guard side. Justin Britt was first drafted O-Lineman under PC/JS to be awarded a second contract due to excelling at C after stints at RT (rookie) and LG (following year).

[NorthHawk]

Solari has been here 3 years and we still see the same thing. It's not Solari's fault that he's been given a poor group, but I'm not
commenting on the coaching rather the FO not being able to select players that can play at the NFL level. That's why I brought
up Glowinski and Carpenter - players we let go for nothing and played relatively well on other teams.

We traded for Gabe Jackson, but moved Lewis to LG. I don't think he played LG in college much, but Jackson played LG in the
NFL. I think it set Lewis back a little and we could have had the LV Center Rodney Hudson to upgrade that position as he was
a FA or traded for the LV LG who was also cut. We could have improved our OL in a big way last off season, but it was largely
bungled in that we still are looking for a solid Center. All we effectively did was replace Iupati and moved Lewis to LG where
he looked out of place for a few games.

[tarlhawk]

Solari has been here 3 years and we still see the same thing. It's not Solari's fault that he's been given a poor group, but I'm not
commenting on the coaching rather the FO not being able to select players that can play at the NFL level. That's why I brought
up Glowinski and Carpenter - players we let go for nothing and played relatively well on other teams.

We traded for Gabe Jackson, but moved Lewis to LG. I don't think he played LG in college much, but Jackson played LG in the
NFL. I think it set Lewis back a little and we could have had the LV Center Rodney Hudson to upgrade that position as he was
a FA or traded for the LV LG who was also cut. We could have improved our OL in a big way last off season, but it was largely
bungled in that we still are looking for a solid Center. All we effectively did was replace Iupati and moved Lewis to LG where
he looked out of place for a few games.

Well ...everything I post (except for quoted info I find interesting from time to time) is my own opinion and to respect yours I have to suppress my urge to respond. Solari has switched things around...a discovery I can't claim credit for but in another post I quoted an article pointing out that our o-Line uses a "Two Hand Punch" vice a more common Independent hand technique. The two-hand punch is effective if it is accurately landed...extending a clean pocket's time...but if missed it allows the rusher a quick and free path into the pocket. Sometimes a young talent is deliberately being groomed for obtaining experience necessary to make the individual a well rounded center if he didn't play center at the collegiate level. Justin Britt went from RT to LG before settling in at C and did quite well at center. Perhaps JS has his eye on a RG (draft/free agent) to move Gabe to LG and D.Lewis to center starting next year...unless we draft a ready to play/plug Center from the 2022 draft.

You blame the FO for an inability to select players who can play at the NFL level then contradict yourself by revealing some success once our drafted O-Line goes elsewhere and become successful ...at the NFL level yet fail to offer a reason why or how this happens? Russell Wilson is a special yet unique QB for his style of play/success. Our O-Line has different expectations placed on it by virtue of RW play making...so why surprised by our released O-Line finding jobs in more traditional O-Line settings? We didn't just "let them go"...there was no trade market for maligned O-Line blamed for only failures.

[NorthHawk]

When we let them go, they signed with other teams for a very reasonable or near minimum salary.
We're not here to be a farm team for other NFL franchises so we didn't know what we had in those players apparently.
Regarding the two hand punch, that's fine, but it's backwards when moving from one side to the other and that may in part be why Lewis
didn't do as well this year. Maybe next year he will be more comfortable.
What our FO has done, though is sign Athletes on the OL instead of Football Players. Most of the picks had great measureables and we
even tried taking DL and converting them to OL (Glowinski is a success story) over experienced college OL. Some of these players may
have been what Cable wanted, but it had to be OK'd by JS/PC so they must believe in the same philosophy. And we've missed out on
some very good players as a result.
Britt went from T to G to C because we were looking for a place to play him. He was a decent Center, but after the knee injury he
never got the chance here to continue and I don't know if he's starting in Houston or not. However, the Center spot has never really
been a solid position since the Unger trade way back when.

[tarlhawk]

What our FO has done, though is sign Athletes on the OL instead of Football Players. Most of the picks had great measureables and we
even tried taking DL and converting them to OL (Glowinski is a success story) over experienced college OL. Some of these players may
have been what Cable wanted, but it had to be OK'd by JS/PC so they must believe in the same philosophy. And we've missed out on
some very good players as a result.
Britt went from T to G to C because we were looking for a place to play him. He was a decent Center, but after the knee injury he
never got the chance here to continue and I don't know if he's starting in Houston or not. However, the Center spot has never really
been a solid position since the Unger trade way back when.

Its a lengthy post but explains the dilemma of understanding how switching from an O-Line Coach (Cable) who favored ZBS (Zone Blocking Scheme) to an O-Line Coach (Solari) who likes PBS (Power Blocking Scheme)...We use a hybrid of PBS with some situational ZBS.

In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack.
The offensive line in a ZBS is moving much more than in a man-blocking scheme. In a man (or angle) blocking scheme, players identify the player they are responsible to block before the snap, and then they hit that guy as soon as the snap happens.

This article breaks down the O-Line that Cable (favored) gave us while describing the other type that Solari likes (Man/Angle *Power Blocking Scheme* with Two-Hand Punch technique)

Football 101: Zone Blocking Scheme
By Kevin Nogle@KevinNogle May 31, 2018, 12:58pm EDT
Football is a simple game with many systematic complexities. We talk about these complexities, from position responsibilities to offensive and defensive schemes, and sometimes we may not fully know the specifics of what we are discussing. Bettering our understanding of the game is our The Phinsider Football 101 series. Maybe you have followed football for years, maybe you are just now learning the game. Whatever the case, there may be a term or a scheme that you don’t fully grasp. We try to help by breaking down these complexities, making the game make a little more sense and hopefully helping you better understand what you are watching.
Today, we take another look at the the magical “zone blocking scheme.” We have heard this term for years, both with the Miami Dolphins and around the league. The DolphinsWhy do some players - and some of the top players in the league - not flourish in the ZBS? Hopefully, you will have a little better understanding after reading today’s article.

What kind of blocking system does my team use?
What is zone blocking and how is it different than any other type of blocking? The goal of the offensive line is just to block someone, right? Why the different schemes? Zone blocking is designed around the run game, though there are aspects of the system that work in pass blocking as well. The easiest way to know if a team is using a zone-blocking system or a man/angle system? Look at the guards.
As Pat Kirwan writes in his book Take Your Eye Off the Ball 2.0: How to watch football by knowing where to look (Triumph Books, 2015), “If the guard is pulling, your team is angle blocking. If he doesn’t pull, your team is zone blocking.” It is a simple way to read the offensive system - and there could be times where the system just does not actually depend on the guard - but it is a fairly effective way to determine what is happening on the offensive line.

And, it also tells you that a “zone-blocking team” is not always zone blocking, and a “man-blocking team” is not always man blocking. Teams use both systems, though they typically have a tendency to favor one over the other.
In the case of the Dolphins, head coach Adam Gase, typically has not been a “zone-blocking scheme” coach, though it does make some appearances. In December 2014, The MMQB took a look at Gase and his time with the Broncos, writing, “Gase only sprinkles in the occasional zone-blocking run. ’If you want to run zone-running plays, you have to do it over and over again. You have to have reps,’ (former St. Louis Rams head coach Mike) Martz.
Zone-blocking scheme

The modern ZBS goes back to the Broncos of the 1990s. It was designed to counter the movement of defensive linemen pre-snap and the stacking of defenders, where there could be up to eight men near the line of scrimmage, with five or six offensive players assigned to block them. If you are a guard, and you are assigned to block the defensive tackle in front of you, then the defensive tackle moves pre-snap outside, what do you do? ZBS takes away the guess work, and, if everyone is on the same page, ensures the center and tackle on either side of you know exactly what you are doing, and how they should react to the change.
The ZBS takes the offensive line and choreographs their movements. It no longer matters who is lining up in front of each offensive lineman. Instead, each lineman is responsible to block an area - or, if you will, a “zone.” The ultimate goal is to double team defenders to ensure there is space for the running back. From there, one of the two blockers is then responsible to pull off the double team, and pick up a block on a linebacker.

Gase likes to play with two tight ends on the field - something we should see more and more of this year with the addition of Mike Gesicki and Durham Smythe - not tipping his hand if it is a running play or a passing play. In the example of how a ZBS run could look (in this case an inside run, allowing for the running back to cut back to wherever the best gap forms), we have two tight ends, with one responsible for the defensive end away from the run, and one responsible for the strong side linebacker - either blocking him or feinting a pass route to draw him out of the area. The tackles and guards then double team one defensive end and one defensive tackle, with the center responsible for the other defensive tackle. From each of those double teams, depending on which way the defender tries to move, the offensive lineman on the side of the block then peels off to go block the other two linebackers. The running back should have a clean backfield, with the option to hit any hole that appears.


*to visualize this with paper and pencil...draw offensive set-up with equally spaced positions left to right. Label positions **W- Weak/Left side of O=Line and S- Strong/Right side of O-Line** WTE/LT/LG/C/RG/RT/STE with RB behind the C...across from them the opponents "front seven" WDE (between TE/LT gap) WDT (Between LT/LG gap) SDT (Between C/RG gap) and SDE (almost directly across from RT) The WLB just back and between WDE and WDT. The MLB back between both of his DT facing center) and SLB outside and back of SDE facing SRT/STE gap)

...for a run to the Strong side...WTE blocks the WDE while LT and LG Double team the WDT...C one on one blocks SDT...RG/RT Double team the SDE*Edge* and the STE blocks SLB directly or runs route drawing the SLB in coverage. RB moving to the right chooses inside gaps or runs outside while opponents SDE and SLB are sealed off springing RB to run outside stiff arming LCB/SS if they react quickly. *


Going back to the pulling guard, in a ZBS, the guard is not pulling because the entire offensive line is shifting. You do not need the guard to be leading the running back, because there is someone on the offensive line already assigned to that area.
The ZBS can also simply ignore whichever player is furthest from the running back, allowing him to run free since he is not likely to be involved in the play. If, in the example above, a safety moved into the box or the offense did not have a weakside tight end, the defensive end might simply be unblocked. The offense will assume the risk of leaving him to chase behind the play, trusting the other linemen to open a hole and the running back to be able to get through the line before the free defensive end can impact the run.

Another way of looking at the ZBS, compared to a man-scheme, is in a ZBS, the offensive line will be taking a step to the left or a step to the right, and then blocking whoever is in that spot. In a man-scheme, the player is stepping forward or backward, hitting the defensive player who was lined up in front of him.

Zone-blocking players

The offensive line in a ZBS is moving much more than in a man-blocking scheme. In a man (or angle) blocking scheme, players identify the player they are responsible to block before the snap, and then they hit that guy as soon as the snap happens. It’s a power system (thus it also being called the “power-blocking scheme”), and it usually takes the 300+ pound offensive lineman to offset the defensive lineman. The linemen are asked to block one-on-one more often, and the size helps.

In a ZBS, where you are getting initial double teams across the line, then having players move to block linebackers, you need small players, and you need players who are light on their feet. Everyone has to be able to go from the line of scrimmage into the second level, so you need the athleticism more than the power. This is where Mike Pouncey’s athleticism made him a star center - he could block at the line of scrimmage, but he could just as easily get to the second level and lead block out there as well.

Of course, there are players that can do both. In a league that values versatility and offenses that use a hybrid man- and zone-blocking scheme, those players would be ideal. In recent years, the Seattle Seahawks have been the epitome of what a ZBS hybrid could be, with power players who can move like the lighter offensive lineman of past ZBS offensive lines. It allowed the Seahawks to disguise what they are doing, it assists in pass blocking, and it makes them a true hybrid blocking scheme.
Adjusting to defensive changes

The example above gives us a look at a straight forward alignment from the defense. What happens if the defensive end drops back into coverage, while a linebacker blitzes? Nothing really changes. The offensive linemen are still going to be in their assigned areas, and they will pick up whomever is there. If the middle linebacker is blitzing up the middle, the center takes him, the guard and tackle take the defensive tackle, and the tight end still has the strong-side linebacker.

It takes practice and understanding of what everyone else is doing, but it makes sure that there is not confusion when a defense disguises what it is doing, or moves a player as the snap happens.

Zone pass blocking

Pass blocking can be the weakness of the ZBS, especially if all the offensive linemen are sub-300 pound players. In passing situations, defensive linemen will simply use their size and strength to overpower the smaller offensive linemen in front of them. Where ZBS does assist in pass blocking, however, is when a defensive line stunts. Using the same basic principles of a ZBS running play, if a defensive tackle and defensive end are swapping rushing lanes, the offensive linemen can pass off the blocking responsibilities to each other. While this will obviously work in a power blocking scheme as well, the ZBS experience makes it a practiced handoff.

For example, a defensive tackle is moving outside while the defensive end moves behind him to take the inside pass rush. The guard can initially block the defensive tackle, and, as soon as the stunt is recognized, pass the defensive tackle to the offensive tackle, then move to block the defensive end. It is a quick reaction, but it is one that the rehearsed ZBS offensive line can easily accomplish.

[NorthHawk]

Cable also used a hybrid blocking scheme but it was biased toward a ZBS.

Why it didn't work well with young players is he had them learning 2 positions. Ifedi is an example of this.
He came from a system in college where he wasn't in a 3 point stance a lot. He then got drafted and had to
learn how to be a pro, adjust to the speed, power, techniques of the NFL as well as learn his roles and
responsibilities of 2 positions. Is it any wonder he looked slow off the ball or had so many false starts?
He has the athleticism required to be a good OL, but not playing in a Pro type Offense in college combined
with the demands of our OL coach put him in a place where his ability to succeed was severely limited.
Ifedi was probably the worst example, but other young OL that came through here had similar results.
Pete as HC bears a lot of responsibility for letting that go on for too many years.

[RiverDog]

Since we were discussing our drafting priorities in another thread, I thought it worth re-visiting this thread and my very primitive research on the subject:

With nothing better to do, I decided to do little research and took a look at our recent draft choices as it applies to offensive linemen. Going backwards from 2021, here are the linemen we drafted with the round we selected them in parathesis:

2021 Stone Forsythe (6)
2020 Damien Lewis (3)
2019 Phil Haynes (4)
2018 Jamarco Jones (5)
2017 Ethan Pocic (2), Justin Senior (7)
2016 Germain Ifedi (1), Rees Odhiambo (3), Joey Hunt (6)
2015 Terry Poole (4), Mark Glowinski (4)
2014 Justin Britt (2), Garrett Scott (6)

In the 4 years from 2014-17, we drafted 9 offensive linemen, including 1 first rounder and 2 second rounders. In the following 4 years, from 2018-21, we drafted 4 offensive linemen, with the highest being a 3rd rounder.

In each of the four earlier years, we drafted multiple offensive linemen, including 3 in 2016, while in the past 4 years we haven't had any drafts with multiple big uglies.

The average round for offensive linemen selected (add up the rounds for each player and divide by the number of players drafted) from 2014-17 was 3.9. From 2018-21 that average was 4.5.

Since 2018, we've drafted more wide receivers (5) than we have offensive linemen (4).

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /draft.htm

It's pretty apparent to me that Pete has been neglecting the offensive line. No wonder Russell's been complaining.

[Hawktawk]

We signed and extended Brown . Several of the guys listed are either playing on the team or hurt . Haynes has looked good in relief . Forsyth is going to be good . Watching them play they aren’t that bad particularly in the run game . With a back eating up chunks of yardage they are energized . And vs the Rams they gave up 3 sacks every single one was a coverage sack where Russ refused to run or throw it away . Same thing vs the bears and frankly in a couple of Genos games too. Both guys ran in to sacks . Stats aside I’ve watched it all 2 times or more . There’s passes not being completed from clean pockets to open receivers in key moments and there’s holes open that b grade backs don’t find or don’t have the burst to get through . That’s been way better lately . After studying games I don’t see a lack of talent as the biggest problem with any personnel group other than the kicker who has been a part of 4 losses on a 10 loss team . It’s coaching and desire .

[tarlhawk]

In each of the four earlier years, we drafted multiple offensive linemen, including 3 in 2016, while in the past 4 years we haven't had any drafts with multiple big uglies.

Since 2018, we've drafted more wide receivers (5) than we have offensive linemen (4).

It's pretty apparent to me that Pete has been neglecting the offensive line. No wonder Russell's been complaining.

Good research but you didn't really speculate on why so many early on...and not so many lately. One of our O-Line coaches...I think it was Tom Cable before he left said your first and second round picks for the O-Line aren't delivering the value that they were before. As college football teams started playing less NFL type Pass Pro Offenses...you were getting less likely guys to immediately "plug in" ...many needed some focused training on NFL Pass Pro techniques which delayed their use. 1rst and 2nd Rd picks need to be impact/ready for use type players.

We drafted them in lower rounds where we based their ability to be coached up on physical standards HT/WT/Hand skills ( Justin Britt had some collegiate wrestling in his background...so his hand checking was more natural). To help get RW some NFL level pass pro we tended to get more FA's already with Pass Pro skills demonstrated...but that is an expensive route to take when you start having vets on your team already working with their 3rd contract. Justin Britt was our 1rst O-Lineman drafted under Pete/John to get even a 2nd contract.

[RiverDog]

We signed and extended Brown . Several of the guys listed are either playing on the team or hurt . Haynes has looked good in relief . Forsyth is going to be good . Watching them play they aren’t that bad particularly in the run game . With a back eating up chunks of yardage they are energized . And vs the Rams they gave up 3 sacks every single one was a coverage sack where Russ refused to run or throw it away . Same thing vs the bears and frankly in a couple of Genos games too. Both guys ran in to sacks . Stats aside I’ve watched it all 2 times or more . There’s passes not being completed from clean pockets to open receivers in key moments and there’s holes open that b grade backs don’t find or don’t have the burst to get through . That’s been way better lately . After studying games I don’t see a lack of talent as the biggest problem with any personnel group other than the kicker who has been a part of 4 losses on a 10 loss team . It’s coaching and desire .

Although I could argue with you about your assumptions, I'll let it slide as that wasn't really my point. My point is that at least as far as the draft is concerned, we haven't been dedicating draft picks to the offensive line over these past four years vs. the previous four, and it's not even close. It's tangible evidence that Pete has been ignoring the OL.

[tarlhawk]

as far as the draft is concerned, we haven't been dedicating draft picks to the offensive line over these past four years vs. the previous four, and it's not even close. It's tangible evidence that Pete has been ignoring the OL.

I covered your speculation in the post I was writing... just above HawkTawk...I'm a terribly slow typer.