Rams Game

[Hawktawk]

Triple dosed people appear to have little resistance to infection from what I’ve been reading . I need to stop reading . I don’t think there’s much the teams can do except put their players in isolation for 2 months . So I’ll ask it again . What if Seattle or one of the other teams that got moved due to another teams problems has 15 or 20 guys out by kickoff ? It’s gonna happen to someone before the season is over .

[c_hawkbob]

Serious question: Have you seen any data on how many of the recent positives have been occurring in subjects that have received the initial shots AND the booster? The NFL is not yet requiring boosters and I doubt that they're even aware of those individuals that might have gotten one.

I can't find anything in my searches that indicates the efficacy of booster shots vs. Omicron from field evidence, only that laboratory experiments show that boosters substantially increase anti body response. If you're aware of a study with that information, I'd sincerely appreciate it if you shared it with us. My feeling is that the variant is so new that they haven't had enough time to collect such information.

No link to such information, just the conversations Shep Smith has at least 2 or 3 nights a week with Dr Fauci. He regularly refers to Omicron as more virulent but less severe in it's affects and the reason we're seeing so many more breakthrough cases.

[c_hawkbob]

Triple dosed people appear to have little resistance to infection from what I’ve been reading . I need to stop reading . I don’t think there’s much the teams can do except put their players in isolation for 2 months . So I’ll ask it again . What if Seattle or one of the other teams that got moved due to another teams problems has 15 or 20 guys out by kickoff ? It’s gonna happen to someone before the season is over .

The answer is in stopping deferrals for positive tests (or more accurately less testing of asymptomatic players) and only isolating players with symptoms.

A memo, obtained by NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport, sent to all 32 teams states that fully vaccinated, asymptomatic individuals will no longer be subject to weekly testing. If a fully vaccinated player or staff member reports symptoms that person will immediately be isolated and tested, and will not be permitted to interact with any player or tiered staff until producing a negative test.

All players and tiered staff will be subject to "stringent symptom screening" prior to entering a team facility each day before being permitted to enter in order to ensure any symptomatic individual will be tested prior to entering.

https://www.nfl.com/news/new-covid-19-p ... players-st

[trents]

The answer is in stopping deferrals for positive tests (or more accurately less testing of asymptomatic players) and only isolating players with symptoms.

This is it and where, as your link demonstrated, the NFL is now going. Treat it like you would a flu bug going through a team. Hold ill players out until they recover.

[Hawktawk]

Kind of a damn the torpedoes response . I don’t want to lose my NFL ball but teams could conceivable have half the roster or more walking around positive , on planes etc . I’m sure they are consulting smart people . I hope it works out and nobody winds up real sick or worse .

[RiverDog]

Kind of a damn the torpedoes response . I don’t want to lose my NFL ball but teams could conceivable have half the roster or more walking around positive , on planes etc . I’m sure they are consulting smart people . I hope it works out and nobody winds up real sick or worse .

That's kinda where I'm at. I don't think that we have enough data to conclude that this new variant is going to be less severe than the previous ones and even if it isn't, it's so contagious that everyone getting sick at the same time is very likely to flood our health care system yet again.

I do think that psychologically, the NFL serves an important moral purpose, that we have to have some type of entertainment to keep our sanity. I don't want to have to lock myself in a bunker every time a new variant pops up, and I do think that a lot of the violence we've experienced over the past couple of years is directly linked to the pandemic and our response to it.

Honestly, I don't know what our response should be. I can see both sides.

[RiverDog]

No link to such information, just the conversations Shep Smith has at least 2 or 3 nights a week with Dr Fauci. He regularly refers to Omicron as more virulent but less severe in it's affects and the reason we're seeing so many more breakthrough cases.

So in any of those conversations, did you hear Fauci or anyone else say that that they're seeing breakthrough cases even in boosted subjects?

Once again, I'm not nit picking your response, but I haven't heard any information, whether it be interviews with Fauci or other experts, on the actual, in field effectiveness of the boosters vs. Omicron.

[NorthHawk]

At this point it's preliminary data, but it's encouraging.
I wonder if it means those who aren't vaccinated would get a milder infection or whether they would be affected worse than the vaccinated.
Basically does the vaccine mitigate the effect of the virus with this omicron variant? Time will tell, I guess.

[c_hawkbob]

No link to such information, just the conversations Shep Smith has at least 2 or 3 nights a week with Dr Fauci. He regularly refers to Omicron as more virulent but less severe in it's affects and the reason we're seeing so many more breakthrough cases.

So in any of those conversations, did you hear Fauci or anyone else say that that they're seeing breakthrough cases even in boosted subjects?

Once again, I'm not nit picking your response, but I haven't heard any information, whether it be interviews with Fauci or other experts, on the actual, in field effectiveness of the boosters vs. Omicron.

Yes. Often.

[NorthHawk]

The early data on this variant is from South Africa where the population is much younger and the society as a whole has fewer underlying conditions.
So that data should be looked upon with suspicion, but if we look at NY and their spike in infections, we don't yet see the expected corresponding number
of hospitalizations. I hope that's truly the case and continues so fewer people die, but we don't yet know for sure.

[Hawktawk]

I've definitely heard of breakthroughs with the 3rd although less. 2 doses is no more effective than an unvaxxed person at preventing infection from Omicron. Early evidence is it may be less lethal but its 3 or 4 times as contagious as delta and infects fully in the sinus region far faster 700X than Delta which was faster than the original strain. That was Fauci in an interview I caught with Chuck Todd. I've heard a number of a million cases a day. I get my news from Matt Drudges news clearinghouse, watch very little non sports TV at all. Europe is locking down and there are riots. Its a mad mad world. Ill be done with the topic here as its becoming purely about the virus. Id update on the OT but its so damn depressing.

[RiverDog]

No link to such information, just the conversations Shep Smith has at least 2 or 3 nights a week with Dr Fauci. He regularly refers to Omicron as more virulent but less severe in it's affects and the reason we're seeing so many more breakthrough cases.

So in any of those conversations, did you hear Fauci or anyone else say that that they're seeing breakthrough cases even in boosted subjects?

Once again, I'm not nit picking your response, but I haven't heard any information, whether it be interviews with Fauci or other experts, on the actual, in field effectiveness of the boosters vs. Omicron.

Yes. Often.

OK, thanks, I hadn't heard that before.

[RiverDog]

This is the best, most recent information I can find on the effectiveness of the boosters against Omicron:

The U.K.’s Health Security Agency published a report last Friday (12/17), citing initial findings from a real-world study, citing initial findings from a real-world study, that said a two-dose course of Covid vaccines were significantly less effective against the omicron variant than the delta strain. However, it found that a “moderate to high vaccine effectiveness of 70 to 75% is seen in the early period after a booster dose.”

The booster dosage that was assessed was the Pfizer-BioNTech shot, with participants in the study having their first two doses of either the Oxford University-AstraZeneca vaccine or Pfizer-BioNTech’s.

However, the UKHSA cautioned that it will be a few weeks before effectiveness against severe disease with omicron will be known, adding that “the duration of restored protection after mRNA boosting is not known at this juncture.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/14/covid-b ... 0infection.

The UK study is more relevant than those done in South Africa for a number of reasons, including vaccination rates and the seasons as it's summertime in the southern hemisphere when the virus is less transmissible. The test results do not include Moderna or J&J, although it's likely that at least the Moderna booster will show at least an equal if not greater result as the Pfizer vaccine.

[Hawktawk]

Moderna just announced exactly that . Thanks for the information RD. There are a lot of nations doing these analysis . I’ve read several including that one . Not much we can do but be careful and stay vaxxed. Wife and I are done eating out for a while .
Anyway GO HAWKS. So one more question . Russ described himself as triple vaxxed and testing almost daily . Are guys still allowed to be proactive on their own dime or are they no longer able to test unless symptomatic?

[RiverDog]

Moderna just announced exactly that . Thanks for the information RD. There are a lot of nations doing these analysis . I’ve read several including that one . Not much we can do but be careful and stay vaxxed. Wife and I are done eating out for a while .
Anyway GO HAWKS. So one more question . Russ described himself as triple vaxxed and testing almost daily . Are guys still allowed to be proactive on their own dime or are they no longer able to test unless symptomatic?

My wife has two auto immune diseases, MS and rheumatoid arthritis. She got her booster back in mid August but is now wondering if she should be getting a 4th shot soon. I got my booster back in October and with a trip to Las Vegas for my nephew's wedding, we're very curious about the effectiveness of them. I'm going to test on the day I return and a day after I get home just to be on the safe side. If I test positive, I'll have to live in our motor home for a week.

[Hawktawk]

Neither Mayfield nor Keenum cleared protocols per NFL network so it will be third stringer Nick Mullins for the Browns . I like the kid , he’s streaky but I watched him hang up 500 yards on Seattle at CLink and had he not made some mistakes we might have lost . Still here we go a third stringer for a team battling in their division ..

[RiverDog]

Neither Mayfield nor Keenum cleared protocols per NFL network so it will be third stringer Nick Mullins for the Browns . I like the kid , he’s streaky but I watched him hang up 500 yards on Seattle at CLink and had he not made some mistakes we might have lost . Still here we go a third stringer for a team battling in their division ..

The Browns have until 2pm today to get players back:

The Cleveland Browns hopes of getting players back from the reserve/COVID-19 list got a boost from the NFL. Normally, a team must have players activated by the end of business the day before a game is scheduled. For a Monday game, teams must have their active roster set by 4 PM on Sunday.

The NFL has changed this rule for the games that were postponed this week. Cleveland and Las Vegas now must have their active rosters set by 2 PM Monday, giving both teams almost a full 24 hours to make adjustments to their teams. The two Tuesday games also have until gameday to change their active rosters.

For the Browns, this rule change could be a huge boost to their roster. With over 20 players on the reserve/COVID-19 list, more time gives a chance for more players to return.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/12 ... e-players/

[Hawktawk]

I wonder if people test positive longer with Omicron. Anyone checked on that?

[Hawktawk]

One other thought . If these players are asymptomatic what difference does a test make with their new rules. There will certainly be positive people padding up all over the league by next Sunday. If you're gonna pull the ripcord do it.

[RiverDog]

I wonder if people test positive longer with Omicron. Anyone checked on that?

I couldn't tell you. But if you can go 10 to 14 days before you even show symptoms, my guess would be that you could test positive for at least that long.

The Omicron variant is still very new. It wasn't even reported to the WHO until Nov. 24th, not even 4 weeks ago. That's the problem with this thing. It got on top of us so quickly that they haven't had enough time to study it, and it broke out in South Africa, a country with different demographics, vaccination rates, and in the opposite hemisphere, so it's apples and oranges trying to use their experience to project what it might or might not do here.

[Hawktawk]

One of the advantages of vax to this point was that viral load drops far faster . It’s what led to the 5 days if passing a test if vaxxed . I forget exactly when mayfield tested positive . It will be interesting to see what happens with all the guys still out for tomorrow .

[RiverDog]

One of the advantages of vax to this point was that viral load drops far faster . It’s what led to the 5 days if passing a test if vaxxed . I forget exactly when mayfield tested positive . It will be interesting to see what happens with all the guys still out for tomorrow .

But wouldn't that depend on when you were fully vaccinated? I was vaxxed in February, so if I were to contract it, wouldn't I have a greater viral load than someone that was vaxxed in September?

[jshawaii22]

It depends on what the definition of "fully vaxed" is. Right now it's still 2 shots (J&J is about to be booted) The Gov't is discussing making it 2 + booster at 6 months to be fully vaxed, which they should at this point. Both Pfizer and Moderna have shown large drop-offs after 6 months, so if your last shot was in spring, you'll need a booster to keep from getting 'big' sick. And get ready to continue to get boosters every 6 months going forward, too. Seems like that will be the next big discussion.

And nothing is keeping you from catching Covid at this point. Again, it's just how sick you're going to probably get. As always, some people have better luck then others. Everything is about averages when it comes to this point.

[RiverDog]

It depends on what the definition of "fully vaxed" is. Right now it's still 2 shots (J&J is about to be booted) The Gov't is discussing making it 2 + booster at 6 months to be fully vaxed, which they should at this point. Both Pfizer and Moderna have shown large drop-offs after 6 months, so if your last shot was in spring, you'll need a booster to keep from getting 'big' sick. And get ready to continue to get boosters every 6 months going forward, too. Seems like that will be the next big discussion.

And nothing is keeping you from catching Covid at this point. Again, it's just how sick you're going to probably get. As always, some people have better luck then others. Everything is about averages when it comes to this point.

Changing the definition of fully vaccinated isn't as simple as it sounds. The boosters are currently authorized only for emergency use, which could make it tricky for the government and employers to mandate them. If you will recall, the mandates didn't really start happening until after the CDC gave full approval to the Pfizer vaccine this summer. But it was approved as a 2 dose series, not 3+ or every 6 months. Moderna still hasn't received full approval for their vaccines, but employers can get around that by saying if someone didn't like taking a less than fully authorized vaccine, they could opt for the Pfizer shot.

They're also talking about moving the window for a booster up from 6 months to 4 months. With the target moving as much as it is and as deliberate of a body as the CDC is, it's going to be very difficult getting simple definitions changed.

These variants aren't going to wait around. We're lucky with omicron as it doesn't seem to be as lethal, but the next variant could be both more contagious and more lethal. They need to do something to speed up the approval process without compromising safety or confidence in the vaccines.

[Hawktawk]

Duration of exposure and viral load in the infected person affect viral load in breakthroughs as much as anything else . Vaccinated persons who suffer breakthroughs often have as high a viral load initially as unvaxed . It just drops much faster which is a huge factor in outcomes . I read yesterday that persons who are fully vaxxed and have a breakthrough develop a “ super immunity “ which is exactly my wife and I situation . My curiosity about Omacron as it pertains to the NFL is as I said does it test positive longer .I guess we will see .

[RiverDog]

Duration of exposure and viral load in the infected person affect viral load in breakthroughs as much as anything else . Vaccinated persons who suffer breakthroughs often have as high a viral load initially as unvaxed . It just drops much faster which is a huge factor in outcomes . I read yesterday that persons who are fully vaxxed and have a breakthrough develop a “ super immunity “ which is exactly my wife and I situation . My curiosity about Omacron as it pertains to the NFL is as I said does it test positive longer .I guess we will see .

I read the same thing about 'super immunity.'

The main problem with omicron is that it's so new. 4 weeks is simply not enough time to study its effects, and the fact that it broke out in a nation that has so many differences to ours makes it that much more difficult to study.

[RiverDog]

Back to topic. Our injury report looks pretty clean if not for those on the Covid list:

The Seahawks placed defensive tackle Bryan Mone on the reserve/COVID-19 list on Monday, the seventh player on their 53-man roster, and ninth, practice squad included, to go on the COVID-19 list since last Thursday.

Mone, who left last week's game with a knee injury, has not practiced since being a limited participant on Wednesday, so his status was in question for Tuesday's game against the Rams even before going on the COVID-19 list.

The Seahawks placed starting receiver Tyler Lockett on the COVID list last Thursday along with running back Alex Collins, then on Sunday they placed six more players—four on the 53-man roster and two on the practice squad—on the list, including starting cornerback D.J. Reed and right tackle Brandon Shell.

https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks- ... id-19-list

The Rams got a few players back off their Covid list, but there's still several starters that have yet to test out:

The Los Angeles Rams have activated four players from the Reserve/COVID-19 list, featuring inside linebacker Troy Reeder, offensive guard Bobby Evans, offensive tackle Tremayne Anchrum Jr. and cornerback Robert Rochell, the team announced Monday morning.

Following the news, the Rams now sit with 18 players that remain on the Reserve/COVID-19 list with just one more round of tests at their disposal prior to Tuesday night's kickoff. That includes four starters that as of Monday are not available for the Week 15 game, including outside linebacker Von Miller, safety Jordan Fuller, right tackle Rob Havenstein and tight end Tyler Higbee.

https://www.si.com/nfl/rams/news/rams-c ... fl-week-15

So it would appear that although the Rams have more total players they're having to sit due to Covid, at least in terms of starters, the two lists look pretty similar.

Each team has one more opportunity for players to 'test out' prior to kickoff.

[Hawktawk]

So delaying the game 2 days really had minimal effect on gameday rosters . Lesson for the league . I did feel a little bad for Nick Mullins . He was victimized by several drops and still got the team in the lead then the defense folded . Inexplicably they allowed the tight end to get out of bounds leaving them 1 second to kick a couple plays later . The look on Mullins face

[RiverDog]

So delaying the game 2 days really had minimal effect on gameday rosters . Lesson for the league . I did feel a little bad for Nick Mullins . He was victimized by several drops and still got the team in the lead then the defense folded . Inexplicably they allowed the tight end to get out of bounds leaving them 1 second to kick a couple plays later . The look on Mullins face

Yeah, delaying the game didn't result in much, but in defense of the league, they didn't exactly have a blueprint to follow, especially as it applies to this new variant.

Agreed about the Browns/Raiders game. Given the circumstances, I felt that Mullins played reasonably well, certainly better than the Bears QB.

It seems that as the season is winding down, defenses are getting better. The last 3 games I've watched have been defensive contests. But then again, we can't expect a lot of scoring when half the QB's are named Tayson Hill, Justin Fields, and Nick Mullins.

[Hawktawk]

Ill tell you who else has played well. Davis Mills. He showed pretty good in the first half last week and carved up the Jags. Yeah it was bad team sweeping a bad team but Ill tell you something. That kid might be the second best rookie playing right now compared to the dreadful performance of Fields and Zach Wilson not to mention Trevor Lawrence who he beat Sunday. Not rattled. big accurate arm.
I've always felt Mullins had potential but he didn't show it with a bad 9ers team.

[NorthHawk]

Ill tell you who else has played well. Davis Mills. He showed pretty good in the first half last week and carved up the Jags. Yeah it was bad team sweeping a bad team but Ill tell you something. That kid might be the second best rookie playing right now compared to the dreadful performance of Fields and Zach Wilson not to mention Trevor Lawrence who he beat Sunday. Not rattled. big accurate arm.
I've always felt Mullins had potential but he didn't show it with a bad 9ers team.

Mills does look like a potential starter somewhere down the road. For him to really succeed he will have to be in a system that can actually develop him properly and fit his skill set.
Tyler Huntley is a perfect example of fit. He looked like Lamar Jackson and that Offense fits him very well. He just needs more game time to grow as an NFL QB and might actually
be a better QB than Jackson, but not a better weapon.

[Hawktawk]

Mills is more the old school type Qb but Huntley looks great . Not Lamar but plenty quick . I think he’s a second year guy . It doesn’t matter who they start when Harbaugh leaves the best kicker in the league on the bench to go for 2 after going on 4th down passing up a field goal early . These coaches ….

[RiverDog]

None of our players on the Covid list tested out, so we'll be minus Lockett, Homer, Shell, DJ Reed, and Bryan Mone, who was likely going to miss the game anyway due to a knee injury.

The Rams got a few players back, including DK Metcalf's tormenter Jalen Ramsey, who was activated Sunday, but they'll still be missing 4 starters including Von Miller, safety Jordan Fuller, right tackle Rob Havenstein and tight end Tyler Higbee. Prior to Monday's testing, the Rams had five offensive linemen on the covid list, including three offensive tackles, so the break definitely helped them more than it did us. I guess if there was a season where we had to be left holding the short straw, this one was it. Even if we win out, our chances of making the playoffs are 27%.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ure.html#&

If you're a betting guy, the Rams are a 7.5 point favorite. IMO it looks worse than that to me, but my crystal ball hasn't been too accurate this season. There's been a lot of low scoring games lately, which if that's the case in this one, might favor us.

[Hawktawk]

I may be wrong but it seems to me more guys were getting back quicker when vaxxed then most of these guys now so I still have that question. As for today I have no idea what to expect . This D held Rodgers to 3 for most of the game . They have played decent . They are not stopping the Rams though . I think you need 27 to win , maybe more . It comes down to Russell Wilson more than anyone else . He was terrible last year against them , bad before getting hurt this year . He owes them one .

We have to move the chains , change field position and score often . Penny or someone needs to run at Donald .
Or it ’s over for the snowballs chance in hell and the winning season streak and any hope we are competetive in our division going forward .

[trents]

Russ is not finding any open receivers and holding onto the ball too long. Not having Lockett is a killer. Ramsey has Metcalf in his hip pocket.

[Hawktawk]

So had it with Russ vs the Rams

[RiverDog]

Another low scoring, defensive struggle. This is the 4th game in a row that I've watched like this.

[jshawaii22]

Well who was that team that just scored to start the 2nd half??? Not the Seahawks.
That's the best drive in a long time, including a 10yard minus in the middle.

[RiverDog]

You'll have to watch all those arm tackles on that run by Sony Michel. Diggs looked horrible.

[Oly]

f*** the NFL. I don't know if the Hawks could have pulled this out, but two total bullshit calls have paved the way to a W for the Rams.

I don't see myself watching another game this year. We'll see how I feel next season.