Urban Meyer

[Hawktawk]

Hawktalk, who was I pointing fingers at? I mentioned no individuals and had none in mind when I typed that. I do not condone what Meyers did to his kicker. It was arrogant and demeaning. All I'm saying is that I believe we live in a culture where too many people see themselves as a victim of some kind and are too easily offended. It was a general statement. When I was in high school in the 1960's there were two husky boys on the football team who picked up one end of the coach's VW Beetle by the bumper during PE class one day. The two boasted they could do it and egged on by the other guys present. They didn't realize the coach had been watching this from the field house window nearby. He came around the corner with a board and whacked them both on the fanny once while they were still holding it up. Everybody roared with laughter. No one was hurt and no one tried that stunt again. No big deal was made of it. If the coach had done that in today's world, the parents of the two boys would have sued the coach and the school and the coach for assaulting a minor and and the coach would have been fired by the school.

LOL I was a benchwarmer on the football team and got the paddle many times. Of course you cant do that now either.

Not to overreact I agree its a sensitive world now. Its not all bad though. A few years back I was terminated for cause wrongly and that was in a terse 10 second conversation a few hours after being screamed at for 90 minutes by an owner, told I dont know a damn thing after 34 years in the industry and 9 years killing myself for him without a raise the last 6 years. I know it was not legal what he did and was advised by many people to sue him. I know I still could but I use it as fuel on a long day at my new course stealing customers from them. It was really hilarious when conditions took a nose dive and the same Ahole owner was having members snoop around to see if Id take the job back if he asked me Id never work for the man for any amount of money


Long story longer I think if I'm showing up for work every day and doing my best whether its a golf course, a factory or a football field I deserve to be treated professionally and with respect. Nothing wrong with demanding that.

[RiverDog]

Hawktalk, who was I pointing fingers at? I mentioned no individuals and had none in mind when I typed that. I do not condone what Meyers did to his kicker. It was arrogant and demeaning. All I'm saying is that I believe we live in a culture where too many people see themselves as a victim of some kind and are too easily offended. It was a general statement. When I was in high school in the 1960's there were two husky boys on the football team who picked up one end of the coach's VW Beetle by the bumper during PE class one day. The two boasted they could do it and egged on by the other guys present. They didn't realize the coach had been watching this from the field house window nearby. He came around the corner with a board and whacked them both on the fanny once while they were still holding it up. Everybody roared with laughter. No one was hurt and no one tried that stunt again. No big deal was made of it. If the coach had done that in today's world, the parents of the two boys would have sued the coach and the school and the coach for assaulting a minor and and the coach would have been fired by the school.

Yeah, I agree with trents on this one. I don't know the details of Meyer's 'kicking' a player but it doesn't sound like it rises to the level of an assault, at least not like Bobby Knight grabbing a player by their throat.

More details are emerging:

In his first press conference at the interim head coach of the Jaguars, Darrell Bevell said that Meyer left before last night’s meetings and didn’t return. Bevell also said that the coaches met and worked on game planning without Meyer. Bevell added that the other coaches didn’t know what had happened until late last night, when G.M. Trent Baalke told Bevell that Meyer was out and Bevell was in.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... nt-return/

At least Bobby Petrino left notes on players lockers.

Not traveling with the team following a road game, berating coaches and players, not giving the team the courtesy of a Thank you for your hard work and Good luck and good bye, leaving it to the GM to break the news to his team. Doesn't sound like he was very into his job.

[Hawktawk]

It’s reported Khan had to wine and dine Urban to get him to take the job , took him on his yacht etc . It should be a lesson if you offer someone a job and they aren’t enthusiastic at first probably should move on. I think Meyers a complete tool who was arrogant enough to think he could show up and succeed but Khan has truly embarrassed himself for 10 seasons with his decisions on HC

[trents]

Not to overreact I agree its a sensitive world now. Its not all bad though. A few years back I was terminated for cause wrongly and that was in a terse 10 second conversation a few hours after being screamed at for 90 minutes by an owner, told I dont know a damn thing after 34 years in the industry and 9 years killing myself for him without a raise the last 6 years. I know it was not legal what he did and was advised by many people to sue him. I know I still could but I use it as fuel on a long day at my new course stealing customers from them. It was really hilarious when conditions took a nose dive and the same Ahole owner was having members snoop around to see if Id take the job back if he asked me Id never work for the man for any amount of money


Long story longer I think if I'm showing up for work every day and doing my best whether its a golf course, a factory or a football field I deserve to be treated professionally and with respect. Nothing wrong with demanding that.

Hawktawk, I agree 100%. Not everything about the 1950's/1960's culture I grew up in was good and right. And not everything about present day culture is wrong. Some things are better than they were in a previous era. Somethings needed to be corrected from back then and have been. It's just that there is this human tendency to over-correct sometimes and go to the opposite extreme.

And I can relate to your experience of being unjustly fired. I had a similar experience toward the end of my working days. I wasn't actually fired but was presented with the option of either resigning or being fired. And it was a setup. I didn't fit in with the culture of the corporation which had changed drastically for the worse after being bought out by larger entities. They wanted me to make changes to how I did my job which I couldn't do in good conscience so they began to frame me as uncooperative and insubordinate. Corporations know how to go about those things while avoiding liability. It was extremely painful so I took an early retirement. Peace!

[RiverDog]

Not to overreact I agree its a sensitive world now. Its not all bad though. A few years back I was terminated for cause wrongly and that was in a terse 10 second conversation a few hours after being screamed at for 90 minutes by an owner, told I dont know a damn thing after 34 years in the industry and 9 years killing myself for him without a raise the last 6 years. I know it was not legal what he did and was advised by many people to sue him. I know I still could but I use it as fuel on a long day at my new course stealing customers from them. It was really hilarious when conditions took a nose dive and the same Ahole owner was having members snoop around to see if Id take the job back if he asked me Id never work for the man for any amount of money


Long story longer I think if I'm showing up for work every day and doing my best whether its a golf course, a factory or a football field I deserve to be treated professionally and with respect. Nothing wrong with demanding that.

Hawktalk, I agree 100%. Not everything about the 1950's/1960's culture I grew up in was good and right. And not everything about present day culture is wrong. Some things are better than they were in a previous era. Somethings needed to be corrected from back then and have been. It's just that there is this human tendency to over-correct sometimes and go to the opposite extreme.

And I can relate to your experience of being unjustly fired. I had a similar experience toward the end of my working days. I wasn't actually fired but was presented with the option of either resigning or being fired. And it was a setup. I didn't fit in with the culture of the corporation which had changed drastically for the worse after being bought out by larger entities. They wanted me to make changes to how I did my job which I couldn't do in good conscience so they began to frame me as uncooperative and insubordinate. Corporations know how to go about those things while avoiding liability. It was extremely painful so I took an early retirement. Peace!

Oh, don't get me wrong, I would never want to return to the work conditions, especially employee/employer relationships, of the mid-late 20th century.

I've never personally been fired, but I've witnessed unfair terminations. My favorite example is that we fired an employee for throwing rocks at his girlfriend's house. There was a dispute where his girlfriend started throwing rocks at his house, so he retaliated by throwing rocks at hers (they lived next door to each other). She called the cops, who threw him in jail (of course, she didn't face any charges). Not knowing of our policy of zero tolerance of employing felons, he plead guilty to domestic violence malicious mischief, which has a very low threshold of property damage, $500, that elevated it to a felony. We canned him, so down the road he went.

[Hawktawk]

I cut down a bunch of dead trees . I’d been taking them down for 9 years but they were getting dangerous and dead trees also suck more water than healthy trees so I took out 74 huge trees , cut them up and hauled them away with myself and 2 guys . I did this over an 8 month period of time . I personally cleared it with the wife of the guy who fired me , she was a hands on full time owner as well . When a member wrote a letter complaining about the tree removal the guy acted like he had no idea what I was doing when he played the course twice a week . Didn’t want to take heat so he fired me for doing probably a quarter of a million in needed tree removal.. that after screaming at me for 90 minutes . It’s a good thing I didn’t know for a fact he was firing me at that point because I’m 6’250 lbs widebody that doesn’t do verbal abuse from anyone but my wife . Thank goodness . Oh well that man has been punished by the members for 4 years for getting rid of the best greens keeper the course ever had . And I’m a legend . I still own a condo on #11 and members shake my hand and I invite them to my new place . It’s all good . Peace out

[RiverDog]

Back to topic. I saw an article describing some of the most famous college to the NFL coaching flops, including a couple had forgotten about.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ho ... d=msedgntp

The funniest had to be Petrino. One minute his players think he's their head coach, and 5 minutes later, they see him on TV doing that ridiculous "Sooooo, pig sooy!" chant at the press conference announcing his hiring at Arkansas.

[Hawktawk]

I watched Spurrier beat Holmgren at C Link in one of Hasslebecks first starts . Saban was a joke in the NFL. His dominance in college as well as guys like Meyer just show how much harder the pro game is . To paraphrase what Knox told Boz ; Urban it’s like playing Alabama every week i remember Petrino. Total tool then he crashed a motorcycle with his mistress on the back and road rashed them both and that was it for that Arkansas job . I believe Petrino beat Seattle in his last ever game with Atl.

If I were an owner I wouldn’t hire someone with no pro experience at any level .

[RiverDog]

I watched Spurrier beat Holmgren at C Link in one of Hasslebecks first starts . Saban was a joke in the NFL. His dominance in college as well as guys like Meyer just show how much harder the pro game is . To paraphrase what Knox told Boz ; Urban it’s like playing Alabama every week i remember Petrino. Total tool then he crashed a motorcycle with his mistress on the back and road rashed them both and that was it for that Arkansas job . I believe Petrino beat Seattle in his last ever game with Atl.

If I were an owner I wouldn’t hire someone with no pro experience at any level .

How could I have forgotten about Lane Kiffen?! Al Davis telling everyone in a news conference that Kiffen was a bold faced liar. Kiffen went on to drive a couple of college programs into the ground, including Tennessee and USC. I had also forgotten about Bud Wilkenson, a legend in college football but a complete bust in the NFL. Lou Holtz was a colorful personality. I saw him on Johnny Carson once, performing some of his magic tricks, a hobby of his, but he wasn't able to work his magic with the Jets.

Kiffen and Saban both had fathers that were moderately successful NFL coaches, so I guess owners figured genetics might be an indicator of good coaching attributes.

[Hawktawk]

I’d have liked to see Schottie get a chance in JAx. I’ll be curious what that team looks like . Lawrence sounded relieved “ this will bring some clarity and direction. Basically a rudderless ship before to interpret Lawrence’s comments . I’m at a loss to recall as high a draft pick going into this bad a situation . Yeah there’s the Jets , giants etc but still …..

[RiverDog]

I’d have liked to see Schottie get a chance in JAx. I’ll be curious what that team looks like . Lawrence sounded relieved “ this will bring some clarity and direction. Basically a rudderless ship before to interpret Lawrence’s comments . I’m at a loss to recall as high a draft pick going into this bad a situation . Yeah there’s the Jets , giants etc but still …..

Troy Aikman's career with the Cowboys started out on a very similar path as Lawrence's, going 0-11 as a starter in his rookie season while throwing 9 TD passes and 11 INT's. The Cowboys finished the season 1-15. Like Lawrence, Aikman was the #1 overall pick in the 1989 draft.

[RiverDog]

We were talking about the possibility of Khan firing Meyer "for cause", so I thought that this language in coaching contracts would be of interest to the group:

If Meyer chooses to fight a “for cause” firing, he likely will have his hands tied by another common provision of NFL coaching contracts — the requirement that any disputes be resolved not in a court of law but by the Commissioner. That stacks the deck firmly in favor of the oligarchs who have hired and compensated the Commissioner, making it very difficult for the team to lose.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... e-looming/

[trents]

I note that in his college gigs, Meyer resigned but this time he was canned. Doesn't look good on the resume if he ever wants to get back into coaching.

[Hawktawk]

Well it’s a for cause firing so we will find out how good Urbans lawyer is . Team issued a statement saying there were @ numerous incidents and not just any one thing . I don’t think Meyer deserved any more money .

[RiverDog]

I just read a story about Urban Meyer's short stint as Jacksonville's head coach and found it to be so incredible that I had to dig up this old thread to share it with you guys. If just half of what appears in this article is true, then Meyer should go down as the worst one-and-done head coach in NFL history. Here's some snippets:

But multiple sources said Meyer was unfamiliar with star players around the league, including 49ers receiver Deebo Samuel, Seahawks safety Jamal Adams and Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald, a three-time NFL defensive player of the year.

“Who’s this 99 guy on the Rams?” Meyer asked one staffer during the season, according to a source. “I’m hearing he might be a problem for us.”

The day after a player on the Jags missed an assignment during a preseason game, Meyer stormed into a room where players had gathered and threatened to cut everyone if it happened again. That didn't go over well.

“And do you know what would happen if I cut you guys?” Meyer said, according to four people in the room. “You couldn’t get a job paying more than $15 an hour.”

Another time, during a meeting that also included members of the coaching and personnel staffs, Meyer berated a player so harshly that the player cried. According to two sources, Meyer slammed the door after departing the meeting, leaving others to console the player.

In November, after wide receiver John Brown signed with the team, he and quarterback Trevor Lawrence were on the field after practice so Brown could correct a wrong route he'd run earlier. Meyer reportedly used that as an opportunity to insult Brown's intelligence based on where he's from.
"Hey, Trevor, you’ve got to slow it down for him,” Meyer said, according to sources who spoke to The Athletic. “These boys from the South, their transcripts ain’t right."

In November, receiver Marvin Jones was enraged to the point of leaving the Jags facility when Meyer told reporters that the receivers had been running the wrong route. Jones confronted Meyer about it, which reportedly led Meyer to meet with players about the comment — and Meyer's attitude in those meetings only made things worse. Via The Athletic:

Once again, Meyer met with players and denied he made the comment about the receivers, even though, according to a source, a player in the room had video of Meyer’s press conference pulled up on his phone.

There was reportedly another incident in December that involved Meyer blaming a member of his staff for a decision that he made. After running back James Robinson fumbled on the opening possession for the second straight game, Meyer reportedly demanded that he be taken out of the game, which he was until the final few plays. That move puzzled Lawrence, who said that the team needed its best players on the field as often as possible.

You can guess what happened when the media asked Meyer about Robinson missing so much of the game.

Behind the scenes, the Robinson situation was even more divisive. After the game, Meyer told reporters he wasn’t aware of Robinson’s extended absence and put the benching on Robinson’s position coach, Bernie Parmalee.

“You’d have to ask Bernie,” Meyer said. “I don’t get too involved. I don’t micromanage that.”

In a staff meeting the next morning, according to multiple sources, Meyer denied ever telling his coaches to bench Robinson. He said his assistants had misinterpreted him.

https://sports.yahoo.com/urban-meyers-s ... 24930.html

And that's just the condensed version. The article also doesn't mention Meyer's unusual decision not to fly back with the team after a Thursday night game when the next night he was caught getting a friendly lap dance from a bar patron.

[Aseahawkfan]

Meyer probably had most of his issues covered up in college. Hard to do with the media scrutiny at the NFL level. Meyer sounds like he runs an insane operation. Not sure how guys like that last much less make it to head coach even in college.

[NorthHawk]

That article makes it sound like Meyer was probably the least prepared coach to be hired in many years if not ever and
not just in a football sense but emotionally too.

[RiverDog]

Meyer had brain surgery to remove a cyst back in 2014, so perhaps that explains some of this rather bizarre behavior. The only person I can think of that was as bad or worse one and done hire was Bobby Petrino.

[govandals]

I didn't realize things were that bad with Meyer. How do colleges hide this stuff? Maybe Khan should have paid a little more $$ for a quality background check.

[RiverDog]

I didn't realize things were that bad with Meyer. How do colleges hide this stuff? Maybe Khan should have paid a little more $$ for a quality background check.

That's a good question. It's hard to believe that his pattern of behavior suddenly emerged when he took over the Jacksonville job. It's sort of like the allegations against Deshaun Watson: There's so many of them that they can't all be false or made up.

[Hawktawk]

I’ve read he was exactly the same arrogant AHole everywhere he’s been .

[NorthHawk]

He must be a heck of a recruiter of college bound kids since he's recruited well in his other stops at that level.

[c_hawkbob]

He was pretty universally well thought of at Utah. In fact most of his former assistant coaches (Kyle Whittingham for certain) still think the world of him as do many former players. Whittingham says "things just kind of snowballed and got away from him" at Jacksonville.

[RiverDog]

He was pretty universally well thought of at Utah. In fact most of his former assistant coaches (Kyle Whittingham for certain) still think the world of him as do many former players. Whittingham says "things just kind of snowballed and got away from him" at Jacksonville.

Hard to say what it was that caused 'things to snowball'. Meyer always coached at highly successful college programs, always posting winning records, always going to bowl games, then he goes to the pros and does nothing but lose, so perhaps he was never tested by adversity and simply couldn't handle the pressure. Losing obviously affects the attitudes of his subordinates and how they perceive their coach. Meyer blows his stack after a win, and no one gives it a 2nd thought. He blows his stack after a loss and everyone thinks he's blaming others for his problems.

It's easy for everyone to like each other when you win, but when you lose, it brings out the worst in people.