Russell Wilson Trade Rumors Starting Already

[Hawktawk]

lets see what these 5 games bring

[obiken]

lets see what these 5 games bring

3-2

[I-5]

Can someone explain why the Seahawks would willingly trade Wilson, unless he straight up asks to be traded? I simply don't understand how anyone would assume they would trade a future HOF QB in his prime. I did think he came back too soon (his doctors predicted his return for the week of the SF game, which incidentally is when he started playing much better).

[obiken]

Can someone explain why the Seahawks would willingly trade Wilson, unless he straight up asks to be traded? I simply don't understand how anyone would assume they would trade a future HOF QB in his prime. I did think he came back too soon (his doctors predicted his return for the week of the SF game, which incidentally is when he started playing much better).

1. Russ is unhappy with Pete. 2. Pete has screwed up. 3. We have to much Cap space for players that are not producing or are pass their prime. Either PC has to go or RW goes. I saw PC goes.

[RiverDog]

Can someone explain why the Seahawks would willingly trade Wilson, unless he straight up asks to be traded? I simply don't understand how anyone would assume they would trade a future HOF QB in his prime. I did think he came back too soon (his doctors predicted his return for the week of the SF game, which incidentally is when he started playing much better).

It depends on how you see Russell's play and how it may predict his performance in the future. Since the middle of last season, he hasn't played consistently well, with these past two games arguably the best back-to-back complete games he's played since then. He has developed the knack for passing up the short and intermediate receivers in lieu of a home run ball, hero ball as some people refer to it. He wasn't throwing over the middle, his 3rd down completion percentage was worst amongst starting quarterbacks leading to a horrible TOP number and putting a suspect defense on the field far too often.

But these past two games has looked far better. Critics will note that this was the two win Texans who themselves have their own problems on defense, but the win last week was against a quality team that has been on a roll. It will be interesting to see how he finishes out the season.

My opinion is that so long as Russell wants to stay here and be part of this rebuild we're likely to embark on, I'll take him with open arms. But despite his recent statements, I'm not at all sure that he's fully committed to playing for us.

[Hawktawk]

I get accused of fan worship by overreacting to players playing well . So I’m just gonna say this is the cleanest 2 game performance I’ve seen from Russ in quite a while , probably since first half of 20. There’s still moments of inaccuracy and there were some bad throws but what’s been noticeable is his mental clarity seems sharper . More decisive . So that’s good . But it changes nothing in terms of the snowball that’s been rolling downhill since “ tired of getting hit so much “. IMO there was no accident the 3 teams were leaked . I know Russ is a good Christian man but I don’t trust a word out of his mouth about what he wants . Frankly if he requests a trade Seattle should grant it . If we go 2-2 and lose out in division maybe we should consider seeking a trade partner , trade he and perhaps Wagner and start over . I have no interest in sustaining 7-10 . If I choose one it’s Russ with a young smart coach and take the chance Russ doesn’t chew him up and spit him out . I had to laugh at Arians yesterday after a thrilling overtime win “ missing wide open receivers running all over the field” I think we’re gonna see changes short of a miracle playoff run . I see the odds . Only thing that changes them is winning but in the end it’s not gonna matter long term .

[NorthHawk]

Here's an article about this subject written before yesterday's game.
Granted it's a bit of an opinion piece, but the statements are factual.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... l-wilson-2

[tarlhawk]

RW is still relevant as an elite QB and he is not used to open criticism from Pete Carrol. I think Russel has tried to get some leverage with management over the direction of the team's future and as long as he doesn't overstep Pete's own control as coach...they can still partnership to produce the winning relationship they've enjoyed in their past. Unlike most of the recent posts here and elsewhere I see both of them as well as our GM (John Schneider) able to continue through their contracts.

The "rush" to trade RW to me is akin to a group of desert outcasts in desperate need of a drink (if only we had some prime draft picks...or more spending cap room) Drafting is still a gamble and for once we regain some draft "clout" in our next draft from having high draft picks as a result of our team's misfortune this year.

Those who disdain about Russel losing his "eye of the tiger" or Pete's "fixation" on the value of a strong RB complement can see clearly that Russel has "returned to form" and Pete can point out that Rashaad Penny has made life easier for RW to operate in these last two games. Offensive lines realize that creating success for our "feature" running back makes an opposing teams pass rush aggression easier to tolerate. Make our opponents respect our running game and life gets easier for Russ to make use of his two sharp WR "weapons" (DK and Lockett)... as teams are forced to put a safety "into the box" and not be able to use a 2 high safety scheme.

[NorthHawk]

I don't think anyone is "rushing" to trade Wilson, rather we are facing the facts about his unhappiness here with the Offense
and preparing ourselves for that eventuality. It seems to many if not most that there is a power struggle on this team between
Pete and Russ. Russ expressed his displeasure last year and not much has changed Offensively so it's hard to think that he
has suddenly become contented. This saga is going to continue into the Off Season and may get worse.

[I-5]

My opinion is that so long as Russell wants to stay here and be part of this rebuild we're likely to embark on, I'll take him with open arms. But despite his recent statements, I'm not at all sure that he's fully committed to playing for us.

Agreed - which is exactly why I said 'unless Russ asks for a trade'. That's really the only reason they would move him, as long as he can still produce. If you look at the GB and AZ games, if he was playing hurt, it explains his poor play. He's played 2 good games since, which as someone else pointed out, corresponds to the date his doctors said he'd be ready to play by.

[trents]

Yes, it's obvious to me that his performance was negatively impacted by his finger despite what he was saying. Another thing I note is that we have dominated two teams in a row we were supposed to dominate rather than playing down to the competition as we have historically done. Not sure what has changed besides Russ' finger. Maybe the emergence of a running game?

[RiverDog]

Yes, it's obvious to me that his performance was negatively impacted by his finger despite what he was saying. Another thing I note is that we have dominated two teams in a row we were supposed to dominate rather than playing down to the competition as we have historically done. Not sure what has changed besides Russ' finger. Maybe the emergence of a running game?

We weren't supposed to 'dominate' the Niners, they were the favorites coming into the game, nor did we dominate them as a person could make a strong argument that they shot themselves in the foot with 3 turnovers near their own 30 yardline and were flagged for 10 penalties, including several that kept drives alive for us. Statistically it was close to a push, with the Niners out gaining us by less than 50 yards, and we won thanks in part to a batted down ball inside our own 10.

[RiverDog]

My opinion is that so long as Russell wants to stay here and be part of this rebuild we're likely to embark on, I'll take him with open arms. But despite his recent statements, I'm not at all sure that he's fully committed to playing for us.

Agreed - which is exactly why I said 'unless Russ asks for a trade'. That's really the only reason they would move him, as long as he can still produce. If you look at the GB and AZ games, if he was playing hurt, it explains his poor play. He's played 2 good games since, which as someone else pointed out, corresponds to the date his doctors said he'd be ready to play by.

If he was that hurt to where it was affecting his performance that much, why in the hell didn't he take himself out of the game?

[I-5]

If he was that hurt to where it was affecting his performance that much, why in the hell didn't he take himself out of the game?

We both know it's because that's just the way he is - it's probably his main blind spot.

[c_hawkbob]

If he was that hurt to where it was affecting his performance that much, why in the hell didn't he take himself out of the game?

We both know it's because that's just the way he is - it's probably his main blind spot.

Exactly. Which is why we have medical and coaching staffs. Players only force their way back onto the field too soon if they are allowed to.

[RiverDog]

If he was that hurt to where it was affecting his performance that much, why in the hell didn't he take himself out of the game?

We both know it's because that's just the way he is - it's probably his main blind spot.

Exactly. Which is why we have medical and coaching staffs. Players only force their way back onto the field too soon if they are allowed to.

Let's not kid ourselves here. This isn't some 3rd string guard we're talking about. This is our 500 pound gorilla, our future HOF'er. Who in the hell is going to tell Russell that he can't play if he says he's healthy enough? It ain't Pete.

[tarlhawk]

I don't think anyone is "rushing" to trade Wilson, rather we are facing the facts about his unhappiness here with the Offense
and preparing ourselves for that eventuality. It seems to many if not most that there is a power struggle on this team between
Pete and Russ. Russ expressed his displeasure last year and not much has changed Offensively so it's hard to think that he
has suddenly become contented. This saga is going to continue into the Off Season and may get worse.

The depth of his displeasure was never revealed in any detail...many of us have "read between the lines" with the limited info that is part of public record. I suspect Russell and Pete are private about much of their relationship with "leaked" info being "red meat" for starved social media sources in the sports world. As in Hollywood bad PR is just as effective as good PR in keeping the person who is focused on relevant. RW hasn't fired his agent so he has allowed some drama...but rather than assume his heart is in leaving our team I suspect its leverage to elevate his influence with upper management. He is highly driven to win and being a guest to watch the SB gave him a particular awareness of the pass protection some QB's are afforded. He let his emotions get the better of him and said some things that hurt the team...and his offensive line in particular.

He has to know that his play style is partly to blame for his O-lines breakdowns but while frustrated he lashed out in an uncharacteristic manner. Pete Carroll handled it well by not giving it too much merit which allowed RW to restore/patch up their private feelings concerning each other. Just adding Gabe Jackson was a strong move while maintaining the O-lines chemistry...but this was less obvious because Pocic (not a dynamo at center...hence only being given a one year contract) was unexpectedly injured exposing our depth vulnerability with the insertion of Kyle Fuller at center. Center is prob only the second most important member on the O-line...second only to the Left Tackle.

The center is key to communication along the O-line (in recognizing what our opponents on the D-line are trying from play to play). This up-coming draft should afford some quality as well as quantity for our 2022 draft class. Secondary help and LB probably just ahead of RB and the O-line. More cap room from the NFL as well as restructuring an extension for B.Wagner should allow signing one or two impact free agents while tackling a new contract for Quandre Digs.

[RiverDog]

The depth of his displeasure was never revealed in any detail...many of us have "read between the lines" with the limited info that is part of public record. I suspect Russell and Pete are private about much of their relationship with "leaked" info being "red meat" for starved social media sources in the sports world. As in Hollywood bad PR is just as effective as good PR in keeping the person who is focused on relevant. RW hasn't fired his agent so he has allowed some drama...but rather than assume his heart is in leaving our team I suspect its leverage to elevate his influence with upper management. He is highly driven to win and being a guest to watch the SB gave him a particular awareness of the pass protection some QB's are afforded. He let his emotions get the better of him and said some things that hurt the team...and his offensive line in particular.

He has to know that his play style is partly to blame for his O-lines breakdowns but while frustrated he lashed out in an uncharacteristic manner. Pete Carroll handled it well by not giving it too much merit which allowed RW to restore/patch up their private feelings concerning each other. Just adding Gabe Jackson was a strong move while maintaining the O-lines chemistry...but this was less obvious because Pocic (not a dynamo at center...hence only being given a one year contract) was unexpectedly injured exposing our depth vulnerability with the insertion of Kyle Fuller at center. Center is prob only the second most important member on the O-line...second only to the Left Tackle.

The center is key to communication along the O-line (in recognizing what our opponents on the D-line are trying from play to play). This up-coming draft should afford some quality as well as quantity for our 2022 draft class. Secondary help and LB probably just ahead of RB and the O-line. More cap room from the NFL as well as restructuring an extension for B.Wagner should allow signing one or two impact free agents while tackling a new contract for Quandre Digs.

Excellent post, tarlhawk. I like your comments about the center position, which is why I was advocating that we should have taken Creed Humphrey with our first pick in the draft last year instead of Eskridge. It's also why we should have never traded away Max Unger w/o a plan to replace him for a tight end that did not fit our scheme and had to be taught how to block.

[Hawktawk]

Yes, it's obvious to me that his performance was negatively impacted by his finger despite what he was saying. Another thing I note is that we have dominated two teams in a row we were supposed to dominate rather than playing down to the competition as we have historically done. Not sure what has changed besides Russ' finger. Maybe the emergence of a running game?

Russel's mind hasn't been right and that was before the finger. It obviously didn't help and Im still seeing a ball now and then that's weird for Russ. But he was missing wide open guys and going to covered receivers which was a key in a couple of the losses including the Tennessee collapse that started the landslide. Hes just seemed sharper, crisper, more decisive last 2 games. Like the guy we saw for better part of 9 seasons. So that would be good. We will need every bit of his best performance the way the rams are looking.

[RiverDog]

So that would be good. We will need every bit of his best performance the way the rams are looking.

As a player, you still hold out hope and play each game as if it were the Super Bowl until we're mathematically eliminated. But at fans, we have to face the cold, hard reality that at this point, it's more up to divine intervention than Russell or any other mortal to save this season. It's gone.

[Hawktawk]

I’d still rather win than lose . I’d be cool with continuing the winning season and and maximizing the value of anyone we may deal post season . I saw a stat that assumed the Hawks ran the table that put their odds at about 40% of reaching the postseason at 9-8. They will be a huge underdog Sunday and if they take care of business they will be favored to get to week 18 at 8-8. And don’t look now but somethings wrong with Kyler Murray . He’s had arm issues in the past and last night was a check down or get picked night . Plus all AZ losses are at home . I think the next one is the hardest one .

[NorthHawk]

The depth of his displeasure was never revealed in any detail...many of us have "read between the lines" with the limited info that is part of public record. I suspect Russell and Pete are private about much of their relationship with "leaked" info being "red meat" for starved social media sources in the sports world. As in Hollywood bad PR is just as effective as good PR in keeping the person who is focused on relevant. RW hasn't fired his agent so he has allowed some drama...but rather than assume his heart is in leaving our team I suspect its leverage to elevate his influence with upper management. He is highly driven to win and being a guest to watch the SB gave him a particular awareness of the pass protection some QB's are afforded. He let his emotions get the better of him and said some things that hurt the team...and his offensive line in particular.

OK. Live in the mystical world on Candy Cane Lane, but many of us can really see what's going on.
What player who is happy EVER releases a list of teams he would be happy to waive his not trade clause for? What player tells his media friends he isn't happy and wants out?
It never happens if things are OK or even if they think they can work it out.
He says he wants to be the best ever and then Pete scales down the Offense. He says he wants the OL to be better and Pete trades away 3 draft picks for a Safety. He looks at
the division and sees Offenses styled for Murray and Stafford. He looks at Tampa and how when Brady wanted to add to his receivers and Offense they went out and got
Gronk and Antonio Brown. He's craving a HC that wants to have a powerful Offense and gets one who wants to keep the game close and squeak out a win at the end.
The fact is big changes are needed for Russ to continue to want to play here and I suspect if Pete doesn't go, the Russ will again set out his list of teams.

[tarlhawk]

He says he wants to be the best ever and then Pete scales down the Offense. He says he wants the OL to be better and Pete trades away 3 draft picks for a Safety. He looks at
the division and sees Offenses styled for Murray and Stafford. He looks at Tampa and how when Brady wanted to add to his receivers and Offense they went out and got
Gronk and Antonio Brown. He's craving a HC that wants to have a powerful Offense and gets one who wants to keep the game close and squeak out a win at the end.
The fact is big changes are needed for Russ to continue to want to play here and I suspect if Pete doesn't go, the Russ will again set out his list of teams.

Well if I'm Candy Cane Lane then you must be the only realistic team critic...or PC critic. Pete scaled down the offense? Who did Pete get rid of? Is Eskridge a runner/RB ? Pete has fashioned the offense/made concessions on a strong running game...not to coddle RW (he actually cares/supports RW and his winning ambitions) but he can't let RW dictate what falls under the HC perview so compromises have been made.

Those three draft picks were traded before Russel lost his composure...Tom Brady is not a comparison unless you want to highlight his displeasure with his coach Belichick? Our TE group and WR group are both top-notch groups who also happen to be some of the best run blockers at their positions so how are they NOT styled for RW to thrive?

The only real place you can point out as a failure is our offensive line depth...John Schneider realizes its Russels play style that hampers sinking lucrative money into the O-line. When Russel was handicapped into staying in the pocket and not bailing out to extend plays downfield he thrived as a pocket passer. The running game injuries took their toll allowing teams to play with two high safety coverages knowing their front sevens were able to handle our RB's.

This next draft should be a strong one for J. Schneider to work his magic...I was hoping for Creed to be our 2nd rd pick when he fell within range...but he recognized Dee Eskridge as a playmaker who could ease the handicap of not having a first rd pick to work with...He is no DK (who was a steal in the 2nd round) but he is lightening in a bottle and a buffer for our future if DK can't be signed to a 2nd contract. Injuries have really kept some of John Schneiders better picks from blossoming...not a reflection on him losing his decision making.

[NorthHawk]

Well if I'm Candy Cane Lane then you must be the only realistic team critic...or PC critic. Pete scaled down the offense?

Where have you been? It's well known that last year when things went south a little, Pete put his foot down and said we are doing things my way.
That pissed Wilson off and preceded the leaks to the media of wanting out.

The comparison to Brady is that is what Russ aspires to. He looks at what Brady has and then is stifled when he asks for it. Brady wanted Gronk
Brady got Gronk, Brady wanted AB, Brady got AB. He looks at TB and GB and sees how their Offenses are tailored to their QBs and here he has to
fit into what Pete wants. Is it any wonder he's not happy? If I were him I would feel that I wasn't fulfilling my potential, and I'm pretty sure Russ
feels somewhat similar.

Our DL has been mismanaged, too. There's a reason why Adams lead our team in sacks - the others couldn't get it done. We are better this year,
but still aren't as good as we might have been. We were weak on the interior of the DL and let our best DL, Jarran Reed go without even trying to
trade him. Sheldon Richardson - 2nd round pick - didn't re-sign him; Clowney - 3rd round pick - didn't re-sign him. These were moves to try to plug
holes that didn't pan out instead of selecting players in the draft that could actually help.
We've gone from drafting good talent to trading away draft picks for stop gap help which hasn't really worked out well. There used to be a time when
other teams waited for our cuts after TC to scoop up the talent we cut. Now we are pretty much ignored - and that's pretty telling.

We'll see how the last couple of drafts work out, but our FO lost its way for 4 or 5 years and it's put the team into a holding pattern until we crashed
and burned early this year.

[tarlhawk]

Where have you been? It's well known that last year when things went south a little, Pete put his foot down and said we are doing things my way.
That pissed Wilson off and preceded the leaks to the media of wanting out.

The comparison to Brady is that is what Russ aspires to. He looks at what Brady has and then is stifled when he asks for it. Brady wanted Gronk
Brady got Gronk, Brady wanted AB, Brady got AB. He looks at TB and GB and sees how their Offenses are tailored to their QBs and here he has to
fit into what Pete wants. Is it any wonder he's not happy? If I were him I would feel that I wasn't fulfilling my potential, and I'm pretty sure Russ
feels somewhat similar.

I don't find your points invalid but interesting. So Brady demanding Gronk (his safety buddy nurtured in their New England days) is akin to Brady "getting his way" ? I might see that as a more direct example if Brady had desired George Kittle and T-Bay went out and got him...Gronk was retired...wasn't he?

AB was a result of personal desire to play on a SB team since his career has somewhat been smouldering. Why have a coach if you are going to allow a QB to neuter him? Aaron Rodgers "put a hit" on his coach getting him fired and is well loved right? ...a sterling example?
Brady separated from Belichick because each credited the other for the team's success...right?

RW doesn't have to "fit" into Pete Carrol's desires like he has no say/influence...He championed the selection of Scott Waldron as Offensive Coordinator. He has two of the premier WR's in the game...his own safety valve as Lockett and DK and Swain as a good placeholder for a 3rd (Dee Eskridge). (all three drafted) and a strong TE group (Dissley -drafted/ Everette-free agent signing). His wish list is unsatisfied? A strong running game does wonders for his taming of the opponents defense and our own time of possession needs.

Good opposing teams are lemmings for what works against RW...frustrate his use of DK and Lockett by using a heavy dose of two high safeties coverage...blanket our passing routes while ignoring our running game. Load up the Defensive line for constant QB pressure/sacking opportunities knowing he's "tired of being hit". Pete Carrol seems less of a hindrance to what is best for RW and the team as a whole. Good screens are an old remedy for an aggressive Defense...but need a dominant feature back/elusive receiver to make it excel.

[NorthHawk]

I disagree with your premise almost completely.
Brady wanted AB. Russ wanted AB. Brady got him and it turns out our offer wasn't much.
Their Offense is tailored for Brady, ours is tailored for Pete. Big difference and it's exemplified by comments by both Pete and Russ.
When asked the same question of how should we win games Pete said (paraphrase) we should keep it close and win it at the end with a score like 23-20.
When told about Petes comments Russ said (again paraphrase) why don't we score 23 in the first half? Those are two different philosophies and don't
bode well for keeping a player happy.

Russ OK'd the signing of Waldron as OC and the expectation was we would have a Rams style of Offense. We've basically seen the same Offense but
with a different OC with the exception being a few more plays with motion and some Jet Sweeps. But the Offense as a whole hasn't changed from the
last few years.

I think you are wrong that the high safety scheme works against Russ. I think it works against our Offense as run by Pete. The failure to adapt and
adjust to counter what teams are doing is our downfall on Offense. Teams for the most part know what's coming just from our formation. It was
hoped that we would take a page from McVey's Offense and run 5 or 6 different plays from a single formation, but in Petes Offense it's not done.
How do I know Pete is behind this? It hasn't changed from Bevell to Shotty to Waldron very much. Pete's the only constant so it has to be him directing it.

[tarlhawk]

Brady wanted AB. Russ wanted AB. Brady got him and it turns out our offer wasn't much.
Their Offense is tailored for Brady, ours is tailored for Pete. Big difference and it's exemplified by comments by both Pete and Russ.
When asked the same question of how should we win games Pete said (paraphrase) we should keep it close and win it at the end with a score like 23-20.
When told about Petes comments Russ said (again paraphrase) why don't we score 23 in the first half? Those are two different philosophies and don't
bode well for keeping a player happy.

I think you are wrong that the high safety scheme works against Russ. I think it works against our Offense as run by Pete. The failure to adapt and
adjust to counter what teams are doing is our downfall on Offense. Teams for the most part know what's coming just from our formation. It was
hoped that we would take a page from McVey's Offense and run 5 or 6 different plays from a single formation, but in Petes Offense it's not done.
How do I know Pete is behind this? It hasn't changed from Bevell to Shotty to Waldron very much. Pete's the only constant so it has to be him directing it.

In the earlier games prior to RW's injury in the Ram's game...two high safeties were commented on as a big reason for RW's frustration and as an effective method of taking DK away adding to his own frustration. You say its because Pete control's the offense using pure speculation and then saying its because we can't counter/adapt (with we being Pete as you surmise)...what counter "pulls" a SS out of two high safety coverage?

Our run and pass plays are an obvious tip? ...then why do teams stay with two high safeties during our "obvious" run plays? It's impossible to credit our lack of a viable running attack won't pull the strong safety into the box? Tyler Lockett benefits whenever DK draws double coverage so the passing game isn't shut down...its just harder to force the ball to DK.

This is Waldrons first year as OC and he admitted prior to the season starting that much of the playbook was still intact as he worked his own play calling into effect. You simplify our teams early struggles with a handicapped center...an injured Carson trying to play through a painful injury...and a new Offensive Coordinator as a reflection Pete's offensive schemes.

Do you think teaching an offense to effectively execute 5/6 plays from a single formation can be learned in one off-season of camp/practices? I can buy Pete having a heavy hand while "working" with our DC Ken Norton Jr. but his OC too? RW has been given the ability to audible out of plays sent in...but he says him and Waldron think alike for the most part...he admits he is tempted to audible a lot for his two special play makers often referring to Lockett as a magician who catches passes he appears to be well covered for. Lockett one on one uses speed and quickness to get his body positioned while DK is a "physical freak" mismatch for single coverage.

As Dee Eskridge (by staying healthy) overtakes Freddie Swain as the 3rd WR (RW was hoping AB would be)...our WR group will "explode" in spite of coverage. As for our GM not going "all-in" for AB...is that possibly while thinking Josh Gordon would pick us if re-instated? Some big name WR's are fully aware of the two dynamic WR's we already possess and accepting being a third wheel is easier with a SB team like Tampa Bay.

[Hawktawk]

A couple of things here. Yeah AB was the rental that helped Tompa win the championship but AB is a mental freak show , currently suspended for faking his vax card and in the words of Arians “ unsure of his status with the team going forward “ so whoops .he likely would not have helped with Russ going 11-29 vs the Rams in the WC

Another thing . Bill Belichick routinely cut or traded defensive stars in their prime and brought in problem children like Corey Dillon , Randy Moss and so on . He constantly upgraded the offensive line and developed offensive game plans that minimized contact for Brady and allowed the run game to succeed .
And one more thing . Tom Brady restructured and took substandard contracts millions less than other stars . At one point he had a Lombardi and the 20th ranked salary .
Our coach scrimps on the O line to load up the D with trades and draft picks . The Qb is all about team except contract time where he demands to be paid top dollar deals on 4 year contracts so he’s back at the dinner table that much sooner .

All about team till he’s getting hit to much or we need more dogs, a few more guys after another non competetive playoff loss playing like crap .
There’s blame to go around. But if you look at the winning formula from 2013 it was Pete’s blueprint , not Russels with a pounding run game , stifling D , conservative passing schemes . In 2014 Carroll went away from his own philosophy and put the ball in Russell’s hands with immortality on the line and a HOF back in the huddle . It was a failure on every level including the pass floated far too high and wide to be safe from interception . And that’s when this regime began to slowly rot IMO. It’s only clear in hindsight but it’s clear . This teams ceiling , Russels ceiling has been 3 wild card wins since 2-2-2015. 2 non playoff seasons barring a miracle . Really no comparison with Russ snd Brady . Love Russ but he’s not the leader setting the example like Brady .
.

[NorthHawk]

We're running the same Offense since 2010. This is his Offense, not Waldrons and it's run Pete's way not the OC's way.

The point about AB is Russ wanted him and the FO didn't really try to get him meanwhile Brady wanted him and the Bucs signed him.
I've come to the conclusion Salary cap for QBs doesn't mean that much as good GMs work around it. It's why KC has 2 $100M contracts
and still was able to go into FA and get players for their OL.
Sure, Belichick gets rid of players in their prime, but he had players on the team that were good enough to not notice the loss. His teams didn't really have much of
a talent drop - maybe a little dip in overall talent, but not like what we've seen here.

Russell being discontented is (according to comments by former players and some media) based largely on his wanting to win and he sees that other QBs that he likens
himself to or others of lesser abilities running real good Offenses. He equates himself with Brady and Brees (true or not, it's what he thinks) but isn't getting the chance
to show it. They are/were running modern day Offenses and Russ is running the same Offense he was 10 years ago. Even QBs considered lesser than Russ are getting
the chance in good Offenses - QB's like Cousins and Goff who are much less QB's than Russ are getting a chance to play in good, and exciting Offenses. But he's being
held back by our old school Offense.

[NorthHawk]

In the earlier games prior to RW's injury in the Ram's game...two high safeties were commented on as a big reason for RW's frustration and as an effective method of taking DK away adding to his own frustration. You say its because Pete control's the offense using pure speculation and then saying its because we can't counter/adapt (with we being Pete as you surmise)...what counter "pulls" a SS out of two high safety coverage?

You throw underneath the coverage to bring the Safeties closer to the LoS then go deep. We didn't adjust and rarely adjust. Use the RBs as pass catchers and TE's more. There are lots of ways to bring
the Safeties down.

Our run and pass plays are an obvious tip? ...then why do teams stay with two high safeties during our "obvious" run plays? It's impossible to credit our lack of a viable running attack won't pull the strong safety into the box? Tyler Lockett benefits whenever DK draws double coverage so the passing game isn't shut down...its just harder to force the ball to DK.

Our run game hasn't been much of a threat.

Do you think teaching an offense to effectively execute 5/6 plays from a single formation can be learned in one off-season of camp/practices?

Yes. Teams put in completely new Offenses every year. By mid year they are usually rolling smoothly. Adding different looks and plays to a basic Offense
isn't that difficult.


As Dee Eskridge (by staying healthy) overtakes Freddie Swain as the 3rd WR (RW was hoping AB would be)...our WR group will "explode" in spite of coverage. As for our GM not going "all-in" for AB...is that possibly while thinking Josh Gordon would pick us if re-instated? Some big name WR's are fully aware of the two dynamic WR's we already possess and accepting being a third wheel is easier with a SB team like Tampa Bay.

Eskridge may turn out to be a good pick, and he could be useful on sweeps but we won't explode with our current Offense as it stifles creativity. I hope to see more of him as he looks to be quick and fast. But
the Offense has to change if we want to exploit his abilities.

[tarlhawk]

We're running the same Offense since 2010. This is his Offense, not Waldrons and it's run Pete's way not the OC's way.
But he's being held back by our old school Offense.

So Pete's offense is balance yet somehow RW is held back by having to hand off to an RB ...but not held back so much that Lockett and DK still thrive? It's easy to speculate and say poor Waldron is shackled by having Pete dictate what he wants without compromise. So RW is stuck as a game manager and never given any freedom? He only appears to be able to audible out of a called play sent in?

You paint a very bleak picture indeed...plenty of blame (if you want to focus on blame) to go around but your version of blame keeps Pete Carrol in his own spotlight...its a wonder anyone likes to be a Seahawk...Duane Brown take back liking to play here...how could you? Its amazing so many on our team lie about enjoying the atmosphere Pete tries to create around here. What keeps them from "throwing in the towel" ? ...certainly not Pete ...or are you saying RW decides when to make Pete look good out of pity? Why do Waldron and Norton Jr. even have post game conferences...pretending they bear any responsibility (for good or bad) when they are "secretly" dictated on how to do their job...all just posture and drama?

Why do we have highly paid positions structured to separate burden yet focus on the cohesion of effort...when RW should be given the directorship of key personnel decision making? Why does RW have to play the role of hero and villain at the same time? Is our team suffering from losing its roster talent base ? An obvious yes...but is it unable to be fixed/corrected to be more of a re-set and less of a scrap everything and rebuild?

A GM utilizes one year contracts for Free Agency to keep the team from being shackled to mistakes made in personnel decisions such as Clowney/Ziggy Anseh/Sheldon Richardson...some were let go because Frank Clarks contract was up but the Pass Rush market had mushroomed before a real deal could be structured/accepted by both sides. A good free agent pick-up eliminates the need to address the position with higher draft capital. Striking out on picking up AB/Josh Gordon/OBJ John Schneider did his homework and selected Dee Eskridge (dripping potential and upside) but coming at the expense of not obtaining Creed at center.

[tarlhawk]

[quote="NorthHawk"]

You throw underneath the coverage to bring the Safeties closer to the LoS then go deep. We didn't adjust and rarely adjust. Use the RBs as pass catchers and TE's more. There are lots of ways to bring
the Safeties down.
Our run game hasn't been much of a threat./quote]

Good responses seen as I pick and choose which to respond to...Waldron's offense has shown underneath WR/TE schemes and some featured RB plays designed to pull the safeties down if not draw the SS into the box as well. I get the feeling much of his personal input had been hampered by our own poor luck of having to wait for the healthy return of both Dee and Penny. With RW showing more confidence and restoring his ability to tip the balance back in our favor in close games the remaining games at the very least should allow our "sinking ship" to reach "safe harbor".

[Hawktawk]

The point about AB is Russ wanted him and the FO didn't really try to get him meanwhile Brady wanted him and the Bucs signed him.
I've come to the conclusion Salary cap for QBs doesn't mean that much as good GMs work around it. It's why KC has 2 $100M contracts
and still was able to go into FA and get players for their OL.
Sure, Belichick gets rid of players in their prime, but he had players on the team that were good enough to not notice the loss. His teams didn't really have much of
a talent drop - maybe a little dip in overall talent, but not like what we've seen here.

Russell being discontented is (according to comments by former players and some media) based largely on his wanting to win and he sees that other QBs that he likens
himself to or others of lesser abilities running real good Offenses. He equates himself with Brady and Brees (true or not, it's what he thinks) but isn't getting the chance
to show it. They are/were running modern day Offenses and Russ is running the same Offense he was 10 years ago. Even QBs considered lesser than Russ are getting
the chance in good Offenses - QB's like Cousins and Goff who are much less QB's than Russ are getting a chance to play in good, and exciting Offenses. But he's being
held back by our old school Offense.

Lots of QBs would love Russ's weapons other than the backs. If Penney can get going that might change. But here is were I have to quibble with Russ as great as hes been. Misses reads and missed passes have cost us being 7-6, 8-5. To be fair there have been drops. But the plays were there to win games, tie games . Our guy was hurt and whatever else and couldn't hit them.
But he wasn't hurt last Jan vs The Rams. Nor against the packers the year before or Dallas before that, Atlanta, Carolina. Russ has had a good enough cast to get to there postseason all but 1 year of his career so far. But since the dynasty killer throw hes not played particular well in any playoff loss, the offense has started slower than the second coming of Christ in numerous of these games. Is It PC? The OC? there's been 3 now. Russ had the greatest regular season in Seahawks QB history last year. Record setting. But then 11-29, pick 6 absolutely lost, rattled. The game wasn't as close as 30-20. So what is it? Its the same guys' that went 12-4. To be fair Russ has looked as mentally sharp as Ive seen him in a long time so that is encouraging. I just dont know if changing skill players is gonna help. We won a Superbowl with Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse. We need a better plan.

[NorthHawk]

There was a comment after a game last year (might have been the playoff game against the Rams) where players stated that the Defense
was calling out what we were going to run before the snap. That's how predictable we were and are. When Waldron was hired, Pete said
we're going to run our Offense, so that basically cut any creativity off at the knees.

So what difference have you seen in our Offense from last year to now? I see the same basic Offense, same formations and same plays.
With a couple of sweeps and the jumbo pkg being the exception. Earlier in the year we had more pre snap motion, but that seems to
have gone by the wayside.

People talk about Belichick and how he does things in NE. I read a story about how he handles his OC in the game plan for each week.
What he does (or did with Brady) was meet with the QB's and Offensive coaches and go over the opponent's Defense. There he pointed
out the inherent weaknesses and strengths. They would then talk about the special players who they had to account for and went over
situational plays and how the Defense reacts in different scenarios (downs, short yardage, pre snap changes, etc.). He would then
leave and let the OC/coaches/QB devise a game plan. Unlike Pete who says this is the Offense we are going to run. Period. And that's
in part why other teams are often so successful defending against us. We don't change to suit the opponent. Other good Offensive
teams add plays regularly. Andy Reid added a play in last year from the old veer Offense is an example of taking advantage what his
players can do and their strengths then using it to confuse or surprise the opposing Defense by doing something completely different.

Our mostly moribund Offense is pretty stale. It's best before date was 2015 and it's time for a change.

[Hawktawk]

The first 3 years of Russ we had a filthy D, an ok line the year we won it all at least . But we had a back in Beast that didn’t need a dominant line like Russ didn’t need one . When we lost the durable lynch in 2015 it has never worked as well . If you’re gonna run successfully with pedestrian backs you need a dominant line and great schemes . Carson could make a hole too but he’s a China doll .

[tarlhawk]

When Waldron was hired, Pete said we're going to run our Offense, so that basically cut any creativity off at the knees.
I read a story about how he handles his OC in the game plan for each week.
They would then talk about the special players who they had to account for and went over situational plays and how the Defense reacts in different scenarios (downs, short yardage, pre snap changes, etc.). He would then leave and let the OC/coaches/QB devise a game plan. Unlike Pete who says this is the Offense we are going to run. Period. And that's in part why other teams are often so successful defending against us. Other good Offensive teams add plays regularly.
Our mostly moribund Offense is pretty stale. It's best before date was 2015 and it's time for a change.

Well I doubt you'll ever surprise me with an upbeat post concerning Pete. What you say makes little sense. So when Pete said we were going to run our offense he couldn't have meant with Waldron adding to our playbook more and more? Lockett was lying when during camp he said he was excited with what Waldron was bringing to the playbook?

Did they train and practice plays with no intention of playing them? Waldron is "getting his feet wet" as a new OC who has never been an OC before...you act/react as if we were getting a Todd McVay clone who would transform our playbook the first year of taking the reins.
So if Pete is so adamant as you say...why does our team even have meetings? Why do we even have other coaches who all draw a good paycheck just to bow down to Pete? Does that even make sense to you? It's a sad reflection on the beat writers who cover our team that they haven't uncovered in detail such manic control by our Head Coach in their own newspapers.

These last two games are finally what was envisioned for our team. You can downplay the early bad communication along our O-Line as not keeping us down...the direct result of having cruddy O-Line players? ...or you can discern the early problems. Kyle Fuller wasn't ready to play as a full time "next man up" but he played at his best without having the experience to recognize the more subtle details of our opposing teams def line alignments...this especially hurt Damien Lewis who was playing a new position with new responsibilities. It seems simple to switch a guard from one side to the other but many O-line players past and present have called in to radio coverage to assert that such a transition is NOT so easy. With Ethan Pocic back at center...communication along the line is much improved...and Russell is no longer forced to change his pass protection everytime he approaches the center.

The emergence of our running game has been a BIG help to drawing the other teams SS into the "box" and as pressure eases up Russell has time to see more of the field and check down more effectively. His style of play is always going to cause him extra hits as he extends plays...moving out of the pocket and thus less protection as a "runner". Mixing up shorter routes where he can release quicker affords him the protection of "roughing the passer".

Besides the emergence of Penny as our feature back...a healthy Dee Eskridge can add spark to pre-snap motion and utilize some jet-sweeps. Russell's bread and butter has always been play action...he and Lynch always seemed to "play with the other team's edge containment.

[NorthHawk]

That was one game against a bad team.

We're 14 weeks into the schedule heading into week 15. What impactful or significant differences have you seen in our Offense from last year?
I've seen a little more motion at times and we've seen a jumbo pkg. The rest is all of the same plays from the last 10 years.
So that's 3 Offensive Coordinators and the same plays.
How can you say that it isn't Pete's Offense when the Offensive playbook doesn't change over 3 OC's?
No wonder Wilson is frustrated. Anyone who is a high achiever would be.

[tarlhawk]

That was one game against a bad team.

We're 14 weeks into the schedule heading into week 15. What impactful or significant differences have you seen in our Offense from last year?
I've seen a little more motion at times and we've seen a jumbo pkg. The rest is all of the same plays from the last 10 years.
So that's 3 Offensive Coordinators and the same plays.
How can you say that it isn't Pete's Offense when the Offensive playbook doesn't change over 3 OC's?
No wonder Wilson is frustrated. Anyone who is a high achiever would be.

Once again you simplify things to proclaim your insistent "playbook hasn't changed in 3 OC's " If this really WAS the case then why have Bevell and Schotty kept this revelation of them being hamstrung by Pete such a secret?

"one game against a bad team"? The turnabout actually occurred during the 49er game. Penny didn't have the same rushing stats but his effect helped shape RW's ability to execute his skill set much better. As for Schottenheimer...RW was angry over his firing...why the anger if RW wasn't benefitting from Schotties play calling? This is Waldron's first year as an OC with no previous exp as a playcaller...Bevell and Schottie had prior experience and could tailor their play calling to to help RW overcome his "flaws" and utilize his many strengths. He can think of himself as equal to other elite QB's but his skill set is very different and he gets results similar to other elite QB's...but its his uniqueness (not his similarity to how the other elite QB's get it done) to create the RW magic of extending plays.

[NorthHawk]

It's well known that Pete pared back the playbook last year and that's what pissed Russell off. After that came the rest of the
comments from Wilson's team including the statement that "Pete has too much power".

Bevell and Schottenheimer are wanting to keep jobs in the NFL. They would be hampered by bad mouthing previous employers.
Russ was angry because Schottenheimer was his friend and saw how the playbook was limited so as to not give the OC the ability to use all of it.
No doubt Wilson has flaws but he wants more variation in the Offense like he sees in NO, KC, GB, TB, etc. - All with Offensive minded HC's.
He thinks he's being held back by our stale Offense. And he's probably right.

[tarlhawk]

It's well known that Pete pared back the playbook last year and that's what pissed Russell off. After that came the rest of the
comments from Wilson's team including the statement that "Pete has too much power".

Bevell and Schottenheimer are wanting to keep jobs in the NFL. They would be hampered by bad mouthing previous employers.

"well known"? that Pete's "pared back playbook" ...somehow produced monster seasons for BOTH our WR playmakers?? The evidence of a vanilla flavored offense aren't well supported by your "well known" claim.

Jamal Adams had as big a role in our second half burst of sacks as Carlos Dunlap. That second half allowed for time of possession to not be so out of whack like it has been this year. Eager to get Adams back into a more traditional SS role they had him in LB range of the line of scrimmage (LOS) then quickly drop up into a pass rushing role which negates his speed (enjoyed by starting at the LOS). Its also enough time for a pass pro RB to recognize Adams intentions. He is very fast off the snap of the ball.

Having him drop "out of underneath coverage" into a pass rushing role...also seemed to fool our beginning secondary which floundered while blaming a sudden lack of underneath coverage while they were trained to keep their coverage target underneath which for Tre Flowers made an even softer zone for QB's to throw underneath in his zone.

A healthy Marquise Blair or Ryan Neal (once Blair got injured) would allow Adams to occasionally rush from the more favored LOS while Blair/Neal assumed his pass coverage responsibility. With Adams AND Blair out of action our pass rush is what it is while putting more of a burden on Amadi/Neal to be a bigger part of zone coverage. Our secondary is made stronger by an aggressive pass rush and vice versa. Our LB are an aggressive read and react group when our whole defense is working like a well oiled machine.

A strong defense gives the offense more drives to work with...and then both sides (Off and Def) can get into a rhythm and start to dictate vice react how a game is flowing. Its definitely a team concept for NFL success.