Seahawks Ownership And The Looming Decisions This Offseason

[obiken]

I am not, HT and I just have an honest difference of opinion. A better question is how the cap was mismanaged, and with his monster salary how do you build a team around him without draft picks? GB did it with AR but they dont expend much in FA.

[Hawktawk]

We were 27th in converting 3rd down last year but it was offset by record scoring and then the resurgent D held teams off several game late in the year last year. We both saw the playoff game as a huge wakeup call to the deterioration in Russes game. I said before the season Russ was my biggest question mark. Indy was a nice opener but even then i saw Russ doing some weird things late in the game when throwing to try to minimize contact. I get it but its just more and more a part of his game.
After several chunk plays and a stellar first half by both units the second half vs the Titans D was obviously a collapse with a 3rd down and 12 busted coverage bomb to swain the only points as the defense folded under the assault of Derrick Henry. The overtime was the hand painted raindrop of who Russ IS right now. High and wide to Lockett on first 20 yards down the sideline. Overthrows DK on second down. On 3rd a rusher gets loose off the left side and from the time he starts breaking around the corner that's all Russ looks at as he spins out backwards and nearly gets a safety. Re watching the game Travis Homer is wide open in the right flat along the sideline waving his arms all alone, an easy short throw , to Russel's front side but he clearly didn't see him, didn't look at him because he was looking at the rusher. Obviously the ball has to be out of his hand in that situation, terrible situational awareness by a 10 year vet.

PC said post game "I wish Russ could have helped us there, at least changed field position. Wilson fired back , defended the throw to locket, said it missed by "inches" Didn't have an excuse for 2nd and 3rd down. The following week after a decent 17 point first half in Minnie the team was shut out in the second, a more and more common Russell Wilson offense trait, all or nothing and more and more nothing. Wilson went to the podium after being shut out second half and said "Were going to score a lot of points. It seems we need to score every drive sometimes" a clear shot at the defense. (there's a reason some of us fans have seen and heard enough).

Then the 9ers which the first half in effect made for nearly 4 consecutive scoreless quarters before Russ came alive and played a nice second half in a 28-21 win.

And that's it. 7 points in 45 minutes vs the Rams before being hurt. 15 yards in the second half before he was hurt and Geno came in and put up 10 points and 140 passing yards in the 4th . Then Geno for 3 games with a 20 PPG average, 5 passing TDs and a Rush TD, 1 fumble and 1 pick when the receiver fell down. Then the little superman had his miraculous recovery pulling a pin out of his finger 3 weeks early "no more pin time to win "and obviously he has looked like crap ever since.

I thought he was forcing his way back, said it at the time and its clear he did. My orthopedic surgeon said he did. But neither Russ or Pete will admit it . Asked whether Russ needs rest Carroll said he needs more work, more reps. Post game Russ was asked why he didn't target DK and threw shade at his protection, said he had him open for a TD but got too much pressure. I haven't rewound the play but Huard said DK was wide open and Russ had time to get it there, just DIDNT SEE HIM. That is the biggest problem with Russ. Guys who can no longer read the field are reading the rush, focused on and distracted by the rush. Great QBs feel the rush and see the field. Russ isn't great right now. Not good actually. He sure was but thats what was and now is not.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/si ... sedgdhphdr

This article discusses the embarrassing signing of AP. I get it but its just a microcosm of this whole FO debacle that seems to get worse all the time.

[NorthHawk]

We have known from the start the Carson has never played an entire season. His running style doesn't allow it.
The article should have presented the list of stud RB's that we've passed by to put us int this position of having to sign RB's off the street for some of the years now
and how they are doing in the NFL. It's sickening or perhaps embarrassing is a better word to see the talent we've passed by in the draft.

[Hawktawk]

I’m with you . Good grief

[RiverDog]

I saw an article about Jody Allen yesterday, first indication from ownership that big changes may be on the way:

Seahawks owner Jody Allen is “very involved” and “not happy” with team’s performance

The report also says Allen views the problems in Seattle as bigger than just a one-year blip for a team that went 12-4 last year and has had nine consecutive winning seasons.

If that’s how she sees it, she’s right: The Seahawks don’t have a first-round pick next year because they traded away what may be a Top 5 pick in the 2022 NFL draft as part of the Jamal Adams deal. And although the Seahawks do have a franchise quarterback in place in Russell Wilson, it’s not clear whether Wilson will stick around amid talk that he’s unhappy and wants to go elsewhere.

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll is under contract through 2025, and even though he turned 70 this season, he has shown no indications that he wants to leave any time soon. But Allen sounds like an owner who is planning to make some changes.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... artner=MSN

[Hawktawk]

It seems Jodi is warming to the idea of being a pro sports owner . I’m glad she’s unhappy . She canned Trailblazer coach Stotts a year after he went to the conference finals . They went to the playoffs almost every year but reportedly were too mediocre and not competetive for a title. And some of us have been harping on it for a while but this has been a weak mirage of a team since 49. Postseason fart in the wind every year . Always a dark horse but always wind up a show horse . A franchise qb who plays like a middle of the pack hack in big moments . A coach seemingly less and less in touch with reality . It wouldn’t surprise me to see her clean house and I’m cool with it.

[NorthHawk]

I saw that article, too and was a bit surprised by it.
I suppose no owner no matter how discreet is hands off on a billion dollar+ business.
Pete signed a 5 year contract, but when asked how long he expected to coach a year or so ago he said he goes year by year.
To me that implies his contract has provisions for retirement or moving on so the number of years might not be important.

[Hawktawk]

I saw that article, too and was a bit surprised by it.
I suppose no owner no matter how discreet is hands off on a billion dollar+ business.
Pete signed a 5 year contract, but when asked how long he expected to coach a year or so ago he said he goes year by year.
To me that implies his contract has provisions for retirement or moving on so the number of years might not be important.

Buying out his deal is pocket change . They are losing far more in ticket and merchandise revenue than he’s making . They are peddling tickets and grab bags of collectibles for 75 a pop next 2 home games . I don’t think anyone’s contract is a big impediment to Vulcan .

[RiverDog]

I saw that article, too and was a bit surprised by it.
I suppose no owner no matter how discreet is hands off on a billion dollar+ business.
Pete signed a 5 year contract, but when asked how long he expected to coach a year or so ago he said he goes year by year.
To me that implies his contract has provisions for retirement or moving on so the number of years might not be important.

Buying out his deal is pocket change . They are losing far more in ticket and merchandise revenue than he’s making . They are peddling tickets and grab bags of collectibles for 75 a pop next 2 home games . I don’t think anyone’s contract is a big impediment to Vulcan .

There's also a possibility of a negotiated departure that would allow Pete to retire and keep some of that contracted amount. It wouldn't help his legacy if he got fired from all 3 NFL HC jobs that he's held. There has been some talk of an HOF nomination for Pete.

[Hawktawk]

PC should be in the HOF and this shouldn’t matter . Not a lead pipe cinch but he should . . A lot of HOF coaches got the hand of friendship .

[RiverDog]

PC should be in the HOF and this shouldn’t matter . Not a lead pipe cinch but he should . . A lot of HOF coaches got the hand of friendship .

He'd be on the bubble. Good arguments could be made for both his inclusion as well as his exclusion. You have guys like Bill Cowhler that made it with a similar resume, but you also have guys like Tom Coughlin that have more hardware that haven't. If Pete gets fired from this job and makes it 3 for 3 in firings from HC jobs in the NFL, it's not going to help his cause. If he resigns rather than getting fired, it could make the difference between a gold jacket and a bomber jacket.

IMO it would make a very persuasive argument that might convince him that it's in his best interest to retire. And of course, he'd be getting a sweet severance package.

[Aseahawkfan]

He'd be on the bubble. Good arguments could be made for both his inclusion as well as his exclusion. You have guys like Bill Cowhler that made it with a similar resume, but you also have guys like Tom Coughlin that have more hardware that haven't. If Pete gets fired from this job and makes it 3 for 3 in firings from HC jobs in the NFL, it's not going to help his cause. If he resigns rather than getting fired, it could make the difference between a gold jacket and a bomber jacket.

IMO it would make a very persuasive argument that might convince him that it's in his best interest to retire. And of course, he'd be getting a sweet severance package.

Why hasn't Coughlin made it? He beat the only other undefeated regular season team in history in the Super Bowl.

[Hawktawk]

He should although he’s penalized for the inconsistency of either winning a super bowl or missing the playoffs much of his career . Pete’s body of work included playoff teams with 3 franchises . A Lombardi and back to back championship game appearances . 9 winning seasons in a row , second most wins in the decade behind only the pats . 5 scoring defense winners , most in a row since the merger . I know it’s not really applicable but all these voters know what he did during his 10 year sabbatical and that’s probably unique among HOF elegible coaches .

[RiverDog]

He should although he’s penalized for the inconsistency of either winning a super bowl or missing the playoffs much of his career . Pete’s body of work included playoff teams with 3 franchises . A Lombardi and back to back championship game appearances . 9 winning seasons in a row , second most wins in the decade behind only the pats . 5 scoring defense winners , most in a row since the merger . I know it’s not really applicable but all these voters know what he did during his 10 year sabbatical and that’s probably unique among HOF elegible coaches .

I'm not sure if Pete wants to brag too much about what he did during his sabbatical. He left USC in a shambles, a condition that they've yet to recover from. It created a big debate that we argued about in here when he was hired.

Advancing 3 different teams to the playoffs isn't a badge to wear to his induction ceremony. Marty Schottenheimer took 3 different teams to the playoffs and no one's clamoring for him.

In any event, he's not a slam dunk and getting fired from this team could be the difference that keeps him out. Holmgren left under very similar circumstances with a nearly identical resume, and he has yet to get a phone call from the committee.

[Hawktawk]

Marty never made it to a Super Bowl . He’s Knox .

Holmgren is interesting because he won a lot and took 2 teams to the super bowl. But Ron Wolf was furious at losing the second SB , blamed Holmgren and couldn’t wait to get rid of a guy who won a ring 2 seasons earlier . Wolfs quote I read was “ great , we are a fart in the wind “ Wolf understood the separation between going to back to back superbowls and book ending championships and losing one. I think we all did too and for either Holmy or Carroll getting the second one would have insured their enshrinement . Holmgrens debacle in XL and publicly blaming the refs won’t help even when it’s true . You don’t disrespect the shield or throw shade at a favorite son franchise like Pisbrg. He’s likely never getting in. Time will tell .

[RiverDog]

Marty never made it to a Super Bowl . He’s Knox.

True. I was just saying that taking 3 different teams to the playoffs isn't that eye popping of an accomplishment.

Holmgren is interesting because he won a lot and took 2 teams to the super bowl. But Ron Wolf was furious at losing the second SB , blamed Holmgren and couldn’t wait to get rid of a guy who won a ring 2 seasons earlier . Wolfs quote I read was “ great , we are a fart in the wind “ Wolf understood the separation between going to back to back superbowls and book ending championships and losing one. I think we all did too and for either Holmy or Carroll getting the second one would have insured their enshrinement . Holmgrens debacle in XL and publicly blaming the refs won’t help even when it’s true . You don’t disrespect the shield or throw shade at a favorite son franchise like Pisbrg. He’s likely never getting in. Time will tell .

Personally, I don't think any of them deserve a jacket and I also feel that Cowhler and Flores don't deserve one, either. IMO the bar for both players and coaches has been lowered too damn far.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah ok you make my point . Cowher was 1-1 in Super Bowls with talent laden teams with HOF guys on them. The one over Seattle was an absolute gift by the officiating although the 2013 Hawks would have overcome it IMO. Dude missed the playoffs and retired a year later . Tomlin won another SB with the team immediately and appeared in 2 more total . Flores should have been eliminated due to his dreadful time in Seattle as a hatchet man deliberately ruining the team so Behring could steal it . By that criteria both Holmgren and PC should be in . And we’re not gonna agree I guess but taking 3 NFL franchises to the postseason is obviously not grounds for induction on its own but is impressive on the resume . I saw Schottie as the best coach never to win a SB and considered Knox a great coach as well. Schottie was about as lucky in the NFL as Greg Norman was in golf .
.

[NorthHawk]

I think that often times it's a popularity contest or maybe with some voters pleasant memories that may not reflect reality.
It's human nature to a point especially since there doesn't seem to be any hard criteria for HoF selection. What did Jerome
Bettis ever do that was exceptional? I never understood his quick induction when other more deserving players missed out.

[RiverDog]

I think that often times it's a popularity contest or maybe with some voters pleasant memories that may not reflect reality.
It's human nature to a point especially since there doesn't seem to be any hard criteria for HoF selection. What did Jerome
Bettis ever do that was exceptional? I never understood his quick induction when other more deserving players missed out.

Same with Drew Pearson. He's remembered due to his catch of a Staubach Hail Mary that snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in a playoff game, but outside of that, it was not a HOF worth career. Just 3 Pro Bowl seasons, one season leading the league in receptions, and one SB ring. But he was a Cowboy.

[NorthHawk]

Pearson cheated on that Hail Mary by pushing the S away before making the catch.
Clearly PI but not called.

[RiverDog]

Pearson cheated on that Hail Mary by pushing the S away before making the catch. Clearly PI but not called.

Yeah, not unlike Golden Tate on the Fail Mary. Refs seem to give a lot of leeway to those kinds of jump ball situations.

[Hawktawk]

I watched Deandre Hopkins stiff arm a defender with full extension for 15 yards before hauling in a circus TD.

Most egregious overlooking of OPI I’ve seen since XL. Not Darrell Jackson . That flag should never have come out . I’m talking about Heinz Ward grabbing our dB by the face mask and bending his head completely backwards to create separation on a critical 3rd down . The same ref that lit up DJ was 10 feet away just like he was when Porter horse collared SA.
It’s the stuff that keeps the game interesting , these debates but really there’s no debate about the worst jobbing by zebras in the big game . Calls and non calls .

[NorthHawk]

Yeah, not unlike Golden Tate on the Fail Mary. Refs seem to give a lot of leeway to those kinds of jump ball situations.

I think it was quite a bit different. At least I remember it as such.
Today's Hail Mary plays are more like a Mosh Pit waiting for the ball but this was just 2 plalyers and the S had position to knock it down or intercept
but for Pearson pushing him down from behind.

[Hawktawk]

I remember the play . Frankly the PI flags are getting ridiculous in the league right now . Way too many ticky tack calls and then inconsistent enforcement .

[RiverDog]

Yeah, not unlike Golden Tate on the Fail Mary. Refs seem to give a lot of leeway to those kinds of jump ball situations.

I think it was quite a bit different. At least I remember it as such. Today's Hail Mary plays are more like a Mosh Pit waiting for the ball but this was just 2 plalyers and the S had position to knock it down or intercept but for Pearson pushing him down from behind.

That play was so long ago that I honestly can't replay it in my memory as you apparently can. It's not burned into my memory like Bart Starr's QB sneak in the Ice Bowl (a play I saw live) or Dwight Clark's catch of a double clutching Joe Montana's roll out pass to the back of the end zone.

[NorthHawk]

I remember the play . Frankly the PI flags are getting ridiculous in the league right now . Way too many ticky tack calls and then inconsistent enforcement .

Bad refereeing when they have the technology to get things right but don't use it. It wasn't the case back then.
It's going to bite the NFL at some point and the gambling revenue could be impacted by consistent bad calls or maybe suggestions of Referees being paid off.

[NorthHawk]

That play was so long ago that I honestly can't replay it in my memory as you apparently can. It's not burned into my memory like Bart Starr's QB sneak in the Ice Bowl (a play I saw live) or Dwight Clark's catch of a double clutching Joe Montana's roll out pass to the back of the end zone.

Well, I was never a Cowboys fan, so it helped to cement my distaste for that franchise.
The Montana to Clark pass helped with a feeling of satisfaction as it was against Dallas but for some reason that memory isn't seared into my brain like the Pearson play.

[RiverDog]

Well, I was never a Cowboys fan, so it helped to cement my distaste for that franchise. The Montana to Clark pass helped with a feeling of satisfaction as it was against Dallas but for some reason that memory isn't seared into my brain like the Pearson play.

Oddly enough, I was a Cowboys fan back in the Ice Bowl days and can still name many of the star players, including Don Meredith, Bob Hayes, Jethro Pugh, Bob Lilly, Dan Reeves, Walt Garrison, et al. For some reason, when they moved out of the Cotton Bowl and started playing their games in Texas Stadium, I started to lose interest in them. My dislike for them came when Jerry Jones bought the team and fired Tom Landry without so much as a phone call to him, like he was tossing yesterday's newspaper into the trash.

I had a lot of favorite teams pre-1976, including the Browns, 49'ers, Cowboys, Chiefs, and Dolphins.

[Hawktawk]

I remember where I was when I saw the Hail Mary . I was mid teens at a buddy’s house and we were actually out drifting our motorbikes in the snow . We went in to warm up with the game late in the second half . I sat down and boom an iconic play for all time . It wasn’t nearly as bad as some I see every game now . A great no call in a huge game . Obviously far more consequential than the Golden Hail Mary as I describe it . It was a brutal push off but expertly executed , a short violent 2 handed punch without extending the arms . I agree with the refs call on the play however . TD.it was really too bad what happened to that official . He was getting death threats , public ridicule as a long time D 1 college official . Someone needs to explain how these current ass clowns are any better .

This brings back memories good and bad . I was in the hospital in Vancouver recovering from a head on collision when I watched the catch , the longest playoff game ever between Miami and San Diego and the ice bowl between the worn out Chargers and the Bengals . The beginning of the 9er dynasty .

I was lucky to be alive to see it but it seared it in my mind the way it went down . I also sat at the 50 exact camera angle with my son and watched and felt beast quake . Still my only playoff game . I feel pretty fortunate as a fan . It’s rough right now but I’ve been rewarded handsomely as a fan of the game and my team

[RiverDog]

I remember where I was when I saw the Hail Mary . I was mid teens at a buddy’s house and we were actually out drifting our motorbikes in the snow . We went in to warm up with the game late in the second half . I sat down and boom an iconic play for all time . It wasn’t nearly as bad as some I see every game now . A great no call in a huge game . Obviously far more consequential than the Golden Hail Mary as I describe it . It was a brutal push off but expertly executed , a short violent 2 handed punch without extending the arms . I agree with the refs call on the play however . TD.it was really too bad what happened to that official . He was getting death threats , public ridicule as a long time D 1 college official . Someone needs to explain how these current ass clowns are any better .

This brings back memories good and bad . I was in the hospital in Vancouver recovering from a head on collision when I watched the catch , the longest playoff game ever between Miami and San Diego and the ice bowl between the worn out Chargers and the Bengals . The beginning of the 9er dynasty .

I was lucky to be alive to see it but it seared it in my mind the way it went down . I also sat at the 50 exact camera angle with my son and watched and felt beast quake . Still my only playoff game . I feel pretty fortunate as a fan . It’s rough right now but I’ve been rewarded handsomely as a fan of the game and my team

We could probably start a thread about our memories of football games/Hawk games. Might be interesting.

My biggest Hawk moment was when Steve Largent tackled Mike Hardin after an interception. It happened right in front of me and I recognized the significance immediately, payback for Hardin's vicious hit on Largent in their first matchup that season that would have been illegal had it happened nowadays but was clean back then.

[Hawktawk]

I recall the games, both of them . I think it was 1989 season . Hardin broke largents face mask with an elbow to the face , knocked him out ,broke teeth , injured one of his eyes . Hardin would miss games for something like that now .

But the payback clearly receiver isnt the only position largent could have played . if DK had in his chest and in his brain what Largent had he would rule the world .

[RiverDog]

I recall the games, both of them . I think it was 1989 season . Hardin broke largents face mask with an elbow to the face , knocked him out ,broke teeth , injured one of his eyes . Hardin would miss games for something like that now .

But the payback clearly receiver isnt the only position largent could have played . if DK had in his chest and in his brain what Largent had he would rule the world .

Yeah, Steve Largent is one of my favorite topics.

I remember seeing an interview with Lester Hayes, an All Pro cornerback for the Raiders and one of the most notorious trash talkers of his era. Hayes said that Largent, despite being just a few feet away, wasn't giving him the slightest indication that he heard his continuous insults and taunts as he wasn't reacting even to the slightest degree, and that he actually thought that Largent was deaf....until Largent burned him for a 60 yard reception and after Hayes tackled him, Largent got up and was laughing at him.

DK Metcalf could learn a thing or two from him about mental discipline.

[Hawktawk]

Largent flipped the ball to the ref 100% of the time and said nothing . Even with Harden the play was clean , just a devastating hit and be didn’t taunt him . Just walked away . Let his play do the talking . I remember an ESPN interview with Lester Hayes who called Largent his toughest draw due to his ability to accelerate out of breaks and his incredible hands and as you say his immunity to smack talk . You and I could talk some old school . I remember a backhanded comment from Hayes bookend Mike Haynes on a fledgling network called ESPN. It occurred after the 1986 playoff field was set . The Seahawks had come out of the gate 5-2 before staggering through 4 straight losses to be 5-6. They finished the year on 5 straight wins including vaporizing the AFC champion Donkeys in the kingdome in the 16th game . They were eliminated from postseason after the Chiefs beat Pittsburgh without scoring a point on offense . Haynes comments were “ it’s fortunate for the rest of the league that the Seahawks aren’t in the tournament . They would have been formidable “ .

That team with Largent, krieg, Warner , john L etc etc all those guys on D. One of the best teams never to go to the playoffs .

[RiverDog]

Largent flipped the ball to the ref 100% of the time and said nothing . Even with Harden the play was clean , just a devastating hit and be didn’t taunt him . Just walked away . Let his play do the talking . I remember an ESPN interview with Lester Hayes who called Largent his toughest draw due to his ability to accelerate out of breaks and his incredible hands and as you say his immunity to smack talk . You and I could talk some old school . I remember a backhanded comment from Hayes bookend Mike Haynes on a fledgling network called ESPN. It occurred after the 1986 playoff field was set . The Seahawks had come out of the gate 5-2 before staggering through 4 straight losses to be 5-6. They finished the year on 5 straight wins including vaporizing the AFC champion Donkeys in the kingdome in the 16th game . They were eliminated from postseason after the Chiefs beat Pittsburgh without scoring a point on offense . Haynes comments were “ it’s fortunate for the rest of the league that the Seahawks aren’t in the tournament . They would have been formidable “ .

That team with Largent, krieg, Warner , john L etc etc all those guys on D. One of the best teams never to go to the playoffs .

Not quite true. Largent did spike the ball once after scoring a touchdown, later apologized, said he'd never do it again. His motto was "Act like you've been there before".

Here's the hit Hardin put on him, followed by the payback:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSOPrwb-mQc

I went to a lot of those ball games back then. I lived in Moses Lake at the time and split 2 season tickets with a friend of mine. Kelly's Tavern on Broadway in Moses Lake used to sponsor a bus, $35 for the ride and all the beer and munchies you could get into your gullet. The Kingdome was a rocking place, they actually created a crowd noise rule due to the advantage we gave our defense. Man, those were the days!