SI: The Dynasty That Never Was

[RiverDog]

This is a premium article from SI so I I thought I'd copy and paste it. I'm not vouching for the sources and it's very controversial, thought provoking, and worth a read. I apologize for its length. Here it goes:

As they grew into Super Bowl contenders, the Seahawks—especially the Legion of Boom defense—prided themselves on a ruthless internal competitiveness that lifted everyone and was the foundation of an NFL championship. But some former and current Seattle players say a growing rift developed, based largely on the special treatment some felt was afforded quarterback Russell Wilson. Now the team they believed was set up for a long run of success has been torn up and rebuilt around Wilson. Did it have to go down like this?

Back in March, three weeks after the Seahawks released him and he signed with their division rival, All-Pro cornerback Richard Sherman married his longtime girlfriend Ashley Moss in the Dominican Republic. The soirée doubled as a reunion for the best defense in recent history, a unit that allowed the fewest points annually from 2012 to ’15, that won one Super Bowl and nearly won another, that gave the NFL the Legion of Boom.

Sherman invited his closest friends and family to the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Punta Cana. The ceremony took place on the beach, the happy couple encased in a glass frame, the structure adorned with white roses. A turquoise ocean sparkled behind them. Waves lapped onto the beach.

Members of those mighty Seahawks defenses spent that weekend drinking and gambling and celebrating Sherman’s good fortune, which cut two ways. Because they weren’t simply toasting his nuptials in paradise; some were also saluting his escape to San Francisco, away from the Seattle organization a handful of players had referred to in private as “the Titanic” for the better part of a year. Even on the happiest weekend of Sherman’s life, inside his sprawling suite at the Hard Rock or at one of the resort’s blackjack tables, the conversations inevitably turned back in the same direction, to what one Seahawk describes as the “dynasty that never was” and some players’ lingering disdain for quarterback Russell Wilson.

The complaints current and former players bandied about spoke to the way an era had ended this offseason, with the Seahawks removed from their once dynastic ambitions, restarting, trying to reclaim what had been lost. Seattle had ascended to the precipice of becoming the NFL’s latest dynasty, behind arguably one of the greatest defenses of all time and a quarterback who was young and sometimes great but also inconsistent. And it was an ethos that held them all together—the notion that ruthless, unsparing competition would prevail above all else.

These wedding discussions usually started in a good place, with players reminiscing about the glory days, the way the Seahawks had battered Peyton Manning and the Broncos in Super Bowl XLVIII. “I was telling the guys I never thought of us as being that elite,” says Cliff Avril, a defensive end on those teams. “It was just a bunch of bad dudes having fun and playing for each other. I was like, we were pretty awesome.”

All that was over now. The Seahawks had released Sherman, traded Pro Bowl defensive end Michael Bennett (and a seventh-round pick) for a fifth-rounder and an unknown receiver, and refused to meet safety Earl Thomas’s demands for a contract extension. Avril and hard-hitting safety Kam Chancellor were forced into retirement from spine and neck injuries. Cornerback DeShawn Shead and defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson departed in free agency. Corner Jeremy Lane was also released.

The final tally: six Pro Bowl-caliber players and eight contributors who departed, could not return or did not report to camp. (Thomas did report, on Wednesday of this week.) As a new season kicks off this Sunday when the Seahawks play the Broncos, only five players remain from their championship team—Wilson, Thomas, receiver Doug Baldwin, and linebackers Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright. “I would never have thought this would unravel the way it has unraveled,” Avril says. “Pretty much everyone who left was a Pro Bowler, if you think about it.”

What kept coming back up at Sherman’s wedding wasn’t the massive overhaul the Seahawks had made. What kept coming back up was why. The less disgruntled members of the audience acknowledged that age and injuries played a role, that change in the NFL is inevitable, that teams, even great ones, eventually come undone in one way or another.

But a dozen sources with direct knowledge of the Seahawks’ internal dynamics who spoke to Sports Illustrated this summer also pointed to a locker room they contend had fractured last season, with private spats spilling into public view and a rift deepening between those who supported Wilson and those who felt the coaches held him to a different standard. The overhaul, those sources maintain, was a direct result of that dissension. It was the management in Seattle deciding to “take the power back,” according to two departed Seahawks, with that notion confirmed by three other current or former players. If everything that happened after their loss to the Patriots in Super Bowl XLIX was done in attempt to rebuild faith and trust in one another, this summer marked a pivot toward something else. The Seahawks rebuilt around Wilson, their most prolific and polarizing remaining player, for at least the next two seasons, when he’s under contract—and they’re hoping to capture lightning with their roster, the way they did in 2012.

Several current and former Seahawks say that coach Pete Carroll and general manager John Schneider can “feel the pressure mounting.” Rather than wait for further erosion, for the divide to deepen, for the defense to get older, they acted decisively this spring, after that defense fell from third in points allowed in 2016 to 13th (tied) last year. But those who left, and even some who remain, wonder if the changes ignore what they see as the more fundamental issue: that what made Seattle great—the highest of expectations, the unrelenting competition—is over, too.

“This is a crucial year, marking a new era of Seahawks football,” Baldwin says. “The jury is still out on what’s to come.”

The dismantling of a great defense dates back to one random 2014 practice, which ESPN first reported last summer as a catalyst for the Seahawks’ rift. That afternoon, Sherman intercepted Wilson, the two traded words and Sherman yelled “you f------ suck” as he flipped the ball back at the quarterback.

The pick itself wasn’t as important as what happened afterward, when several players who spoke to SI said Carroll gathered his offensive and defensive leaders and told them they needed to protect Wilson, to treat him more gently than they would their other teammates. Those same players had been indoctrinated into the NFL the exact way they were trying to teach Wilson, with merciless competition as the way to bring out the best in each other, by never letting a lapse slide, by talking s--- after interceptions, even in practice. In the meeting, they told Carroll exactly that. “This is making him one of our own,” one player said, while several others nodded, according to two who were in the room. “He’s got to go through the process.”

No, Carroll told them. Not Wilson. “He protected him,” one Seahawk says. “And we hated that. Any time he f----- up, Pete would never say anything. Not in a team meeting, not publicly, never. If Russ had a terrible game, he would always talk about how resilient he was. We’re like, what the f--- are you talking about?”

That Seahawk uses a pack of wolves as an analogy to explain his thinking. It’s as if Carroll sent his pack out to hunt but kept one wolf back, and that wolf still ate when the others returned with food. “We talked about that,” says Tony McDaniel, a defensive tackle with Seattle in 2013, ’14 and ’16. “Russell had his f----ups; he never got called out. If I was Pete Carroll, I’d tell Russell, I have to call you out in front of the team so there won’t be any problems.”

One former Seahawk says he and a handful of teammates speculated that Carroll judged Wilson too emotionally fragile to handle the criticism, be it from them or his coaches. That presented Carroll with a difficult choice: between the environment he’d fostered and the franchise quarterback he’d found in the third round. He chose the quarterback, the former player says—a choice many coaches would have made—adding “[Carroll] realized Russ couldn’t handle being part of the dynamic we had.”

Not every teammate felt that way. Some noted that it’s in Carroll’s nature to stress the positive, quarterback or not. But roughly half the locker room had issues, according to its inhabitants. Some complaints were pettier than others: that Wilson had his own space for treatment in the facility, which some thought was off-limits to his teammates and others insist was not; or that he didn’t interact with other players at the team’s annual Christmas party.

All these accusations, though, spoke to the same theme: that Wilson was both treated differently than his teammates and, in some instances, willingly stood apart from them. When McDaniel arrived in Seattle in ’13, he went to dinner with several defensive players and asked them why things seemed off between the defense and the quarterback. He was told by those players to be careful speaking frankly when Wilson was around, because they believed what they said could wind up on Carroll’s desk. The players said that had already happened—subjects that had been discussed in the QB’s presence had come to the attention of Carroll, an assertion four other players who spoke to SI also made. “When guys would talk candidly in front of Russell, somehow all that stuff got up to Pete,” one player said. “And after a while, after a few instances, everyone started noticing that, and everyone made sure not to talk about anything that could be misconstrued near Russell.”

Some also dispute that Wilson puts in the work necessary to earn his status with the team and in NFL at large, believing he has prioritized his business interests over football. Others at Seahawks headquarters disavow that characterization. Their opposition speaks to the sort of polarizing presence Wilson had become in Renton.

(Asked to comment on all specific incidents in this story, Wilson declined through the team and his representatives. The Seahawks also declined to comment.)

The same players also cite much larger, more pertinent issues. Such as after the 2014 NFC Championship Game against the Packers, when Wilson was invited to the podium at the 50-yard-line after having thrown four interceptions in the game. The Seahawks had just pulled off a miracle comeback, with the defense limiting Aaron Rodgers to 178 passing yards and intercepting him twice. Multiple defensive players had gutted through injuries, and yet it was Wilson who received the most praise, and Wilson whom Carroll saluted in team meetings that next week as having saved the season. “That’s when guys really started to notice the lack of accountability,” says one former player. “Before that, if guys made mistakes or we lost games, guys took responsibility for it, for good or for bad. We started losing that.”

All of this came, remarkably, before the crushing Super Bowl defeat, before Wilson drove the Seahawks to the 1-yard-line in the game’s final minute against the Patriots, giving Seattle a chance to win. That Wilson threw an interception mattered less than the fact that the Seahawks had called a pass play on second down. Many who lamented how Wilson was treated differently now believed, truly believed, that Carroll had called a pass play to give Wilson a better chance to win the Super Bowl MVP award and decrease Marshawn Lynch’s chances, perhaps conveniently ignoring that offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell might have actually called the play. Regardless, the players say, that call contradicted what Carroll always said publicly: that he wanted to run the ball and play great defense, that that’s how he built the Seahawks—to be tough and stop foes and let Lynch bulldoze Seattle to victory after victory. Again, several players felt that Carroll said one thing and did another, and this time it had cost them a repeat Super Bowl title. (Such a view disregards the fact that the Seahawks defense missed 18 tackles and allowed the Patriots 196 yards-after-catch in the game.)

“That’s when some guys started to openly question whether [Carroll] believed in his philosophy,” says Avril, who says he still trusted the coach at that point. “Guys started to be like, do you even believe what you’re saying?”

Some Seahawks still remember every detail from that night. Sherman pacing back and forth, wearing his frustration into the carpet in that locker room in Arizona. Lynch, fully dressed, downing a bottle of cognac, saying “These motherf------ robbed me,” and “f--- this,” over and over. “If we gave the ball to the soul of our team and we lose, f--- it, we lose,” one Seahawk says. “Point-blank, period. You lost doing what you do best. But he gave it to Russ. I didn’t believe the MVP thing at first. But now I wonder. It’s at least plausible.”

“That one play changed the whole locker room,” McDaniel says. “When Pete would give a speech or try for a heart-to-heart, people just stopped responding. They didn’t know who to trust anymore.”

Rather than acknowledge the rift, though, these Seahawks say Carroll doubled down on Wilson in 2015. The quarterback took members of the offense and defense to Hawaii for a retreat before that season, to, according to sources, repair any lingering issues. But some lingered. “A lot of people felt like he was doing that to save face,” says one player who was there. “We were like, What is this? Why are we here? He was disingenuous."

It wasn’t just Seattle’s handling of Wilson that irked the locker room. The Seahawks had previously made difficult decisions around the likes of Bruce Irvin, Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane and Malcolm Smith, among other key contributors. Many of those moves were accepted as part of routine NFL business—the team did have to pay Sherman, Thomas, Baldwin, Wilson and many others, after all —but over time, after the Seahawks released or dealt several of their top leaders, the sense that competition would prevail over all else began to fade. What had felt so unique to Seattle for players who had spent time elsewhere—a true sense of meritocracy, absent favoritism for high-priced free agents or high draft picks—was eroding.

An early move that bothered some was the release of McDaniel, a favorite of the defensive vets, after the 2014 season. “Tony did all this dirty work,” says one former Seahawks defensive starter. “I don’t think people on the outside really recognized how valuable he was. Nobody in that locker room understood why we cut him.”

McDaniel was eventually brought back, in 2016, finding himself in a time-share with other players whom he argues he was outperforming. “I was one of the guys who came in, put my hat on and went to work. Didn’t complain, didn’t say much,” he says. “The eye in the sky don’t lie. They started letting guys in front of me who I knew clearly weren’t better than me play. It frustrated me that they were favoring guys they drafted. I came off an eight-tackle game and they would bench me.”

Players who spoke to Sports Illustrated said the preference for younger, underperforming players over quality veterans was most apparent in the career arc of one lineman: Germain Ifedi, the Texas A&M offensive tackle whom Schneider and Carroll drafted 31st overall in 2016. The opportunities Ifedi has enjoyed while consistently grading out poorly have irked veterans who wonder why the Seahawks won’t bring in free-agent competition or promote other players to challenge him. Retaining wide receiver Tanner McEvoy at the expense of Kasen Williams in 2017 angered the defensive backs and some receivers who were intimately familiar with the abilities of both. Three leaders even went to Seahawks management in protest. “Like, what the f--- are y’all doing?” says one. “Because you’re not building a winning team when you’re making those decisions.” (The Seahawks cut McEvoy this summer; he signed with the Dolphins. Williams is currently a free agent.)

It’s not unusual, of course, for players to take issue when their favorite teammates are released. It’s possible, too, that Carroll figured Wilson would be at his best when protected, that he needed more protection than the brash members of his defense, who could reasonably be expected to perform no matter what. Also possible: that Seattle looked at its roster, saw an aging defense, and decided to build around a young, in-his-prime QB. But even then, that’s not how the moves went over to those critical of Wilson in the locker room. Stitched together, they became something else, something bigger: a broken system.

“Everything they preached about competition stopped being true,” says one former Seahawk. “It wasn’t like that anymore. The Kasen Williams move was one. The way they treated the running back situation for years, the offensive line. They would draft offensive lineman high and tell them, You’re a leader now. No, you earn that. It all became artificial.”

Those decisions, on top of Carroll’s refusal to publicly check Wilson in any setting, public or private, chipped away at the coach’s once-renowned ability to motivate a wide range of personalities, according to the players who spoke to SI. Carroll’s mantras, which consistently buttressed his motivational talks—“Always Compete,” “Practice is Everything”—began to ring hollow.

Players who lamented the shift focused on Wilson, which other Seahawks believed was unfounded and unfair. Did Thomas still have to earn his spot? they ask. Did Sherman? The week following a December 2016 loss to the Packers, Sherman and Bennett nearly came to blows over Wilson. The quarterback threw five interceptions against a defense that finished 31st in passing yards allowed that season, and Sherman, a member of the unofficial player leadership huddle of which Wilson was not a part, proposed confronting Wilson in a private setting to ask what the issue was, as they'd routinely do with other players when performance dipped. “That was a common thing to do, because often it was some outside factor affecting guys, family stuff, and you’d work through that,” one former player says. But Bennett took issue, reminding Sherman that they only had one quarterback. The confrontation escalated to the point where the two needed to be separated. Toward the end of that ’16 season, Sherman’s complaints became louder and more public, and they clearly dated back to what had happened in the Super Bowl defeat. In private, what he said was even worse.

The notion that quarterbacks will be treated differently, even should be, is not new. But Aaron Rodgers goes out of his way to include teammates in promotional spots, and Bill Belichick regularly shoots verbal barbs at Tom Brady during film sessions. Incidentally, neither of those teams fielded defenses with as many stars as the Seahawks once boasted, and that’s why the dynamic in Seattle was different than in New England or Green Bay. “You’re not going to talk crazy to Tom Brady at practice,” Avril says. “You’re not going to talk crazy to Aaron Rodgers at practice. You might get kicked out of practice if you do that. To me it’s absurd to think a quarterback will be treated the same all the time. There’s a hierarchy in every thing. So why wouldn’t they expect the same for this guy?

“The problem is,” Avril continues, “at one point we were allowed, people were allowed to talk trash to him.” Then, after 2014, they weren’t.

For years, Avril says, he warned his teammates, friends and acquaintances alike. All the public and private complaints, the sideline antics, the defensive players calling out the offensive coordinator—the personalities that Carroll sometimes referred to as the Seahawks’ “celebration of uniqueness”—all that would only be tolerated to a point.

“When you start losing, people feel like they’re losing control of the team,” Avril says. “Or they feel like they’re losing control of people on the team. You get away with that when you’re winning.” If not, change. Hence the 2018 offseason.

Of course, the Seahawks dropped five of their last nine games in 2017, as the young Rams ascended to the top of an NFC West division that had long been controlled by Seattle and its mighty defense. Players who had grown accustomed to the old way admittedly started to check out. Bennett took to reading books in some team meetings. Sherman’s sideline exclamations became increasingly animated. “Too many people with opinions,” says one former defensive starter. That’s when some players took to referring to the Seahawks as the Titanic. Then, as predicted, ship hit iceberg.

Sherman strained his Achilles in practice before a Thursday night game in November against Arizona, then tore it in the third quarter while accelerating out of a break. That night would mark both Sherman’s and Chancellor’s last game in a Seahawks uniform; for Chancellor, his last in any uniform. That the injuries happened on the same field where the Seahawks had lost to the Patriots in the Super Bowl was not lost on some players; not only had a potential dynasty died on a football field in Glendale, Ariz., now the Legion of Boom had, too. “I just remember feeling so demoralized, like f---,” one Seahawk says.

On that night in Arizona, an era ended. “It was like, it’s over,” that Seahawk says. Change came, as predicted. After the Sherman injury, veteran players even began preparing for their exits. Bennett repeatedly told his best friend, Avril, that he expected to be traded or released. In December, during what he thought was a private moment with Cowboys coach Jason Garrett after a game against Dallas, Thomas was caught on camera telling the coach, “If y’all got the chance to come get me, come get me.”

To his credit, Wilson played well down the stretch, without much help from his offensive line. His 34 touchdown passes matched his career high from 2015, and he threw for 3,983 yards and ran for 575 more, the second-highest total of his career. In his first six seasons, he’d thrown for more touchdowns (161) than Matt Ryan (153) or Cam Newton (136) had in that same timeframe. As teammates complained, Wilson received MVP consideration. They’d argue that they weren’t complaining about Wilson’s statistics or production, but rather how Carroll handled him and how that changed the locker room dynamic, making the Seahawks less competitive and leading several prominent players to question their head coach. “All good things come to an end,” Bennett told Avril more than once last fall.

He was right. The season finished, and the playoffs started without the Seahawks for the first time since the 2011 season. Carroll fired his offensive coordinator, longtime fan non-favorite Bevell, and his defensive coordinator, Legion of Boom favorite Kris Richard, along with several other coaches. Many in the locker room wondered if Brian Schottenheimer had been named offensive coordinator specifically to better align Wilson with his teammates. Then, the purge. One Seahawk felt it necessary to tell Duane Brown, the left tackle Seattle traded for last season and signed to an extension this spring, “It’s not usually like this.”

Ultimately, the Seahawks made the same bet as Carroll. They bet on Wilson, at least for the next two years, when he’s under contract, then built around him, hoping to gain by what they subtracted from their locker room, to get younger, more cohesive, to recapture the magic they found in 2012. Some of Wilson’s greatest critics, and even some of his defenders, are gone now, and these Seahawks are clearly his team moving forward. Remaining Seahawks argue that keeping the core of the defense intact this season would have been impossible, regardless, with Bennett turning 32 and Sherman turning 30 and Avril and Chancellor forced into retirement. All players think they can play five years longer than they actually can, they argue, citing the longer prime that Wilson has left. But that doesn’t make the end of an era any less sudden—or lessen the pain of what could have been.

“Hell, no,” Wright says, when asked if he expected the defense would be dismantled as quickly as it came apart. “I thought we were going to ride off into the sunset together. I definitely didn’t see it falling apart that fast. I thought it would last another three or four years.”

Publicly, the principals remaining in Seattle—Schneider, Carroll and Wilson—have maintained that there’s been no shift in philosophy, no effort to empower and insulate the quarterback, and that their current roster is a group on the rise, much like the 2012 Seahawks. Asked by SI in general terms about the upcoming season and all the turnover back in August, all sounded optimistic. The expectation for excellence, Wilson said then, hasn’t waned as the veterans who helped establish it have departed. “The standard was set a long time ago,” Wilson told SI, “and it’s still there from Day 1 when we started practicing this year. The standard is super high. The standard is to practice at the highest level, and do everything we can to win.”

Asked in training camp whether 2018 feels different at team headquarters, Wilson said then that not much had changed. “There are definitely some different faces out there, but it really doesn’t [feel different]. Coach Carroll does a tremendous job of being consistent every day. He does a tremendous job of making sure the culture is the way that we want it to be—a culture of excellence, a culture of love, a culture of guys who love the game.”

Carroll told SI as part of those earlier August interviews he believes the Seahawks can build a champion with the guys in the locker room right now, and that some are destined to become household names, and that Wilson is “the best he’s ever been,” on and off the field. “Nobody knew who Richard was or who Kam was back in the day,” Carroll said then, “and there are guys in that room right now that they’re going to know about in time. It’s thrilling. … We’ve got extraordinary performance and leadership ability from the QB spot. I don’t know what [the critics] are thinking.”

“It’s a dope opportunity, in my opinion,” Wagner said then, echoing his coach.

The answers will come in 2018. Winning, as Avril says, masks deficiencies in the process. If Carroll deliberately shifted the power from a locker room full of outspoken Pro Bowlers to the talented passer who didn’t have the full respect of that locker room—as many current and former players believe he has done—the one and only thing that will justify that transition is to win. “Now you’re tied to him,” one Seahawk told management this spring.

Just four years removed from reaching the pinnacle of the sport, this the state of Seattle’s NFL team, on the verge of another season. Blame the salary cap. Blame ego. Blame age and injury. Blame success. Just know that many of the principals, especially those who remain, don’t think this version of the Titanic is foundering just yet.

“Wait and see,” the ever-optimistic Carroll told SI. “I ain’t worried one bit.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/07/seatt ... v5GU0HZPdY

[Hawktawk]

Well....fortunately I'm a speed reader. This is a snapshot in time from 4 years ago. The team has 1 playoff win in the wild card and 2 wild card losses since this article was written. Obviously no playoffs this year and maybe for a while.

This article was very hard on Wilson and on Carroll for his phoniness, both of them really "disingenuous". Looking back Its got the ring of truth. Seeing the dispute now between even Russ and his most reliable receiver with PC firmly on Russell's side there's a real ugly picture emerging. They are the greatest coach and QB we ever had but something's been off quite a while really and now its off the rails. I could see true ugliness the rest of this slog. Kind of is already. I'm positive Russ played vs GB because he demanded to more than ever even though his play showed he wasn't ready. I'm sure the team is well aware of that fact. As Geno texted after that brutal shutout loss "I want to vent but its not safe". He quickly took that down but I rather doubt he was alone in his feelings.

No I'm not infatuated by Geno either other than how he ran the offense and how his teammates interacted with him. He played great his last game and the players were bumping him on twitter, lighthearted ribbing after the game. There's a lunch pail admiration there, a fondness.

I dont see it with Russ. Matter of fact watching him sitting alone on the bench during the Zona loss it just occurred to me that Russ used to be running up and down the sidelines slapping helmets and being rah rah rallying the team. I specifically recall him in that 2014 NFC championship "come on, were only down 16 points!" It was interesting to read the reactions of the defenders when Russ was the one Carroll celebrated at midfield after one of the worst performances in history by a playoff winning QB. And I know we all debated at the time of the awful Hindenburg disaster on the goal line 2 weeks later what the impact of that on this franchise would be. 6 seasons with 3 wild card wins and now in the dumpster we have our answer. It indeed was a call that fractured any chance of keeping this dysfunctional dynamic workable between a prima donna QB and a filthy defense.

[RiverDog]

Yes, I realize it was an old article, but one I had never read and thought it was worth sharing as we are contemplating the futures of Russell and Pete. It seems a little more credible than your garden variety article as they're actually quoting named sources rather than just trying to connect the dots.

[Hawktawk]

Yes, I realize it was an old article, but one I had never read and thought it was worth sharing as we are contemplating the futures of Russell and Pete. It seems a little more credible than your garden variety article as they're actually quoting named sources rather than just trying to connect the dots.

Its a great read and the first time I've ever read it in its entirety. I was still drinking the Kool aide at the time and believed all the denials, wrote it off as disgruntled ex teammates jealous of Russell's stardom. But in hindsight its the flight data recorder telling us when the Seahawks began their final decent. Obviously it was a flawed dynasty, more success very early and the greatest period of time in franchise history, a level some teams only dream of. But you always wonder what if? What if we hand it off? Back to Back would have healed a lot of wounds. I've said before its a testimony to the skill and professionalism that these guys went on to win as many more games as the did.

[NorthHawk]

It explains why the OL has been such a mess over the years and so many young players were not re-signed only to play a number of years on other teams.
One year we signed a veteran Guard (can't remember his name) who was a 5 or 6 time Pro Bowler and cut him before they year started. Later JS admitted
it was a mistake, but he would have been a great fit for the young guys to learn how to be a pro football player. And his steadiness might have helped
Ifedi to be a better RT if they had chosen to keep playing him there. It may also be in part why Frank Clark punched Ifedi in the face during TC. The
frustration must have reached critical mass.

[Oly]

Thanks for posting that, RD. It's a great read, and I totally buy it. (I buy the frustration and how locker room divisions rotted the "dynasty" from the core, I can't know whether Sherman et al. were right about the differential treatment though.) It's been a long time since I felt that players were buying what Pete's selling. The only surprising part, for me, is how long it's taken to fully unravel.

[Stream Hawk]

Sad but true pointed article. I remember ignoring it back when it was written because I was still a believer. Maybe I had some doubts, but the superbowls were still fresh.

The biggest concern is all of the optimism from those two liars. How are they so optimistic when they admittedly have no clue what they’re doing right now? Pete has no answers, even had to leave a press conference. Russ has no answers, sulks solo on the bench, but spews cliches publicly. House erupted since the sb loss.

[Hawktawk]

Liar is pretty strong. Id say delusional happy talk. Like some sort of Tony Robbins seminar.Its their way, has been their entire career.

It really has been coming apart for quite a while. Any team coming off back to back SBs and then cant get out of the WC round for the next half decade there should have been wholesale changes a few year ago. Like you say the SBs were fresh and it is seattle and we are traditionally pretty easy on our franchises. This is tougher after where this team was and what they were 1 yard from Feb 2 2015.

[Stream Hawk]

Fair enough, I’m still bitter. Is delusional car salesmen better? And Russ better not rift with Tyler (just traded for him on my ffb team!).

I don’t remember Pete showcasing Russell after the 4 interception game. Although it should be noted that about 3 of those ints were directly on Kearse. Plus, as much as I hated the play call on the 1 yd line in 49, the defense did give up those 2 4th quarter touchdowns. Brady sliced them apart. Marshawn almost scored the play before. I digress. Regardless, the team imploded after that.

Our team is clearly off its rails now, and a full on blow up is the only solution. Tough and hard choices are needed - from the top down. Like the PA thread, Jody or her cronies must step in and lay down the hammer. Or sell to Bezos, ffs!

[RiverDog]

Liar is pretty strong. Id say delusional happy talk. Like some sort of Tony Robbins seminar.Its their way, has been their entire career.

It really has been coming apart for quite a while. Any team coming off back to back SBs and then cant get out of the WC round for the next half decade there should have been wholesale changes a few year ago. Like you say the SBs were fresh and it is seattle and we are traditionally pretty easy on our franchises. This is tougher after where this team was and what they were 1 yard from Feb 2 2015.

I tend to agree.

A number of us in here saw this coming. Immediately after our SB loss, I said that keeping this team together was going to be a bigger challenge for Pete than building it was. I was never comfortable with our direction ever since our SB loss, but my true come to Jesus moment was after our playoff game last year vs. the Rams.

[trents]

River, is this copyrighted material?

[RiverDog]

River, is this copyrighted material?

Not sure. There's no mention of a copyright in the article.

[Hawktawk]

I agree about the dreadful Rams loss. That’s when the check engine light came on . The team was listless . Russ was dreadful . It wasn’t as close as the score . It’s the first time I’ve ever seen Russ look hapless in a playoff game . Yeah there was 2014 vs pack but he got enough done at the end . From fairly early in the game it seemed hopeless and it was . I had nothing but ?? Coming into 21. Not liking the answers

[RiverDog]

I agree about the dreadful Rams loss. That’s when the check engine light came on . The team was listless . Russ was dreadful . It wasn’t as close as the score . It’s the first time I’ve ever seen Russ look hapless in a playoff game . Yeah there was 2014 vs pack but he got enough done at the end . From fairly early in the game it seemed hopeless and it was . I had nothing but ?? Coming into 21. Not liking the answers

I think that North Hawk was in front of all of us as far as expressing our doubts. Based on our result against the Rams just a couple weeks earlier where we beat them decisively, I was very optimistic about our chances not only in that game, but going forward in the playoffs.

But it turned out to be fool's gold. I felt this huge sense of embarrassment, like I had been tricked into buying a used car by a slick salesman that turned out to be a lemon. I felt like filing a complaint, demanding my money back.

Going into this season, I thought that it could go either way, and it seemed like it might up to halftime of our 2nd game.

[Hawktawk]

There was speculation on the forum at the time how that loss would affect the psyche of the team . I recalled that 2004 game where we were up 17 on the Rams with just over 6 minutes left and collapsed to lose on a walkoff TD in overtime . A win would have made the team 4-0 for the first time ever . They nearly collapsed but pulled it together to win the division at 9-7 only to lose in the wildcard to the 8-8 Rams who wound up winning 3 games against us that year . When you collapse like that I think it’s hard to have swag because you never feel in control or like your lead is safe .

[RiverDog]

There was speculation on the forum at the time how that loss would affect the psyche of the team . I recalled that 2004 game where we were up 17 on the Rams with just over 6 minutes left and collapsed to lose on a walkoff TD in overtime . A win would have made the team 4-0 for the first time ever . They nearly collapsed but pulled it together to win the division at 9-7 only to lose in the wildcard to the 8-8 Rams who wound up winning 3 games against us that year . When you collapse like that I think it’s hard to have swag because you never feel in control or like your lead is safe .

I remember that season. I think that DJack and KRob had a contest to see who could drop the most passes.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah one eyed cannibas Koren I recall . Also Holmgren even throwing it up 17 wtf but also SA tripping over the 40 to avoid a hit and coming up short on 3rd down when a first would have iced it. Brutal . It was like the Kyle Shanahan game plan

[trents]

I think one issue of mismanagement with the Seahawks is lack of a long-term plan for maintaining a contender. Too many short-term band aids have been resorted to in order to mask the ever-widening gaping wound of a steadily declining talent infrastructure. A case in point would be Jamal Adams and he was an expensive band aid at that. In my mind, the biggest infrastructure need is to rebuild the offensive line. I think most of Seattle's offensive woes can be traced to a sadly inferrior offensive line that cannot win the battle at the line of scrimmage - that allows penetration on every play whether pass or run. In my mind, the O line is the foundation of an offense. And this has been the most neglected component under Pete and John's leadership.

In contrast, look at the Mariners. Under Service and Depoto the club has resisted the temptation to spend big bucks on a few "in the twilight of their career" stars and have patiently rebuilt their farm system into one of the best in the majors. They have been building up their club primarily from the inside and have seen steady improvement. They have used their resources wisely such that they were able in the past week to sign two top drawer players from other clubs, including a reigning Cy Young starting pitcher. Starting pitching was their primary weakness and the now have addressed it. They have had a plan and stuck to their guns. I think this is what has enabled the NFL Patriots to sustain success for so long and to be so quicly getting back on track post-Brady. This is the kind of vision that is lacking with the Seahawks.

[obiken]

In my mind, the biggest infrastructure need is to rebuild the offensive line. I think most of Seattle's offensive woes can be traced to a sadly inferrior offensive line that cannot win the battle at the line of scrimmage - that allows penetration on every play whether pass or run. In my mind, the O line is the foundation of an offense. And this has been the most neglected component under Pete and John's leadership.

Spot On Trenty!! Put RW behind the Browns line and see what happens.

[RiverDog]

I think one issue of mismanagement with the Seahawks is lack of a long-term plan for maintaining a contender. Too many short-term band aids have been resorted to in order to mask the ever-widening gaping wound of a steadily declining talent infrastructure. A case in point would be Jamal Adams and he was an expensive band aid at that. In my mind, the biggest infrastructure need is to rebuild the offensive line. I think most of Seattle's offensive woes can be traced to a sadly inferrior offensive line that cannot win the battle at the line of scrimmage - that allows penetration on every play whether pass or run. In my mind, the O line is the foundation of an offense. And this has been the most neglected component under Pete and John's leadership.

I agree. The Adams move was almost undoubtedly Pete thinking that he was one player away from going to the Super Bowl, so he overpaid for Adams, which makes you wonder about his long term interest in coaching.

In contrast, look at the Mariners. Under Service and Depoto the club has resisted the temptation to spend big bucks on a few "in the twilight of their career" stars and have patiently rebuilt their farm system into one of the best in the majors. They have been building up their club primarily from the inside and have seen steady improvement. They have used their resources wisely such that they were able in the past week to sign two top drawer players from other clubs, including a reigning Cy Young starting pitcher. Starting pitching was their primary weakness and the now have addressed it. They have had a plan and stuck to their guns. I think this is what has enabled the NFL Patriots to sustain success for so long and to be so quicly getting back on track post-Brady. This is the kind of vision that is lacking with the Seahawks.

I hope you're right about the Mariners. Due mainly to their decline since Lou Pinella left, I have lost interest not only in the Mariners, but baseball in general. I'd sure love to have a horse in the race again.

[trents]

This analyst hits the nail on the head. It's not like it's something we on the forum haven't commented on many times but she shows the data in chart form: https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2021/ ... ce=twitter

[RiverDog]

This analyst hits the nail on the head. It's not like it's something we on the forum haven't commented on many times but she shows the data in chart form: https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2021/ ... ce=twitter

I don't see the link to the chart you're referring to, but I listened to the video, and you're right, we've all talked about it and have come to somewhat of a consensus.

Our problems have been the combination of bad trades (Harvin, Graham, and Adams being the most notable), bad or underutilized draft picks, and what would seem to be a bad strategy of trading down in the draft to accumulate picks, perhaps because we've burned too many picks in trades, last season being a good example as we went into the draft with just 3 picks. We've prioritized defense over offense and skill position players over linemen.

That's why we need to get rid of both Pete as well as JS.

[trents]

Well, it really wasn't a chart but the analyst displays a list of the Hawks draft picks in the last several years and only about two panned out.

[Hawktawk]

The Jets are super happy about the Adams trade I bet

[RiverDog]

The Jets are super happy about the Adams trade I bet

Do the Jets have any fans?

[Hawktawk]

Of course they do . I was talking front office . They could not have envisioned this trade going any better for them

[obiken]

Of course they do . I was talking front office . They could not have envisioned this trade going any better for them

No they saw Pete and John coming a mile away on this one.

[NorthHawk]

For me, the most egregious crime (in a sportsfans viewpoint) of this trade was the Jets wanted to get rid of him.
Normally that's in the buyers favor, but we managed to give away a boatload of capital for someone who was not in the Jets future.
To me it has Pete's hands all over it just like his use of time outs and challenges during games.

[obiken]

For me, the most egregious crime (in a sportsfans viewpoint) of this trade was the Jets wanted to get rid of him.
Normally that's in the buyers favor, but we managed to give away a boatload of capital for someone who was not in the Jets future.
To me it has Pete's hands all over it just like his use of time outs and challenges during games.

Right!! 2 st, a 3rd, and another player? You give that up for an impact player, not a box safety on defense. Walter Jones, Lynch, or dare I say a franchise QB, not a Jamal Adams.

[RiverDog]

For me, the most egregious crime (in a sportsfans viewpoint) of this trade was the Jets wanted to get rid of him.
Normally that's in the buyers favor, but we managed to give away a boatload of capital for someone who was not in the Jets future.
To me it has Pete's hands all over it just like his use of time outs and challenges during games.

Right!! 2 st, a 3rd, and another player? You give that up for an impact player, not a box safety on defense. Walter Jones, Lynch, or dare I say a franchise QB, not a Jamal Adams.

I'm with Obi on this one. IMO the Adams trade was the most egregious mistake of at least the past 5 years, if not Pete's entire regime because he mortgaged our future. Then he compounds his mistake by making Adams the highest paid safety in the game.

At the time, I trusted him, that he knows defense, in particular, his defense, that he must know what he's doing. But I said that it had better work out, and it didn't, which is one of the major reasons I'm calling for his head. Whatever magic Pete once had, he's clearly lost it.

[NorthHawk]

They stopped following the plan that made them successful in the early years then
followed that by trying to plug holes via trades at the expense of draft picks.
Why they changed is a mystery to me.

[RiverDog]

They stopped following the plan that made them successful in the early years then
followed that by trying to plug holes via trades at the expense of draft picks.
Why they changed is a mystery to me.

I have a theory. When Pete first took this job after 9 years at USC, he had either recruited players or had contacts that gave him inside information on college players that he, or his contacts, knew would fit his system. Richard Sherman played at Stanford, Brandon Browner Oregon State, Bobby Wagner Utah State (via LA), Marshawn Lynch Cal, Earl Thomas Texas, and so on. The further he got away from college, the worse his drafting got.

Like I said, it's only a theory.

[trents]

I'm with Obi on this one. IMO the Adams trade was the most egregious mistake of at least the past 5 years, if not Pete's entire regime because he mortgaged our future. Then he compounds his mistake by making Adams the highest paid safety in the game.

I think Pete thought he had found another Cam Chancellor.

[RiverDog]

I'm with Obi on this one. IMO the Adams trade was the most egregious mistake of at least the past 5 years, if not Pete's entire regime because he mortgaged our future. Then he compounds his mistake by making Adams the highest paid safety in the game.

I think Pete thought he had found another Cam Chancellor.

Except that Kam wasn't the key to Pete's defense. Earl was. The more I look at it, the worse it gets.

[Hawktawk]

I see the draft failures as worse than the FAs for the most part. Beast Avril and Bennett worked out. If winning it all is the prize Harvin panned out as our leading rusher on 2 devastating jet sweeps , one of the most explosive house calls ever after high pointing a perfectly executed pooch kick to seal the deal. A lesser return man might have gotten blown up and turned it over there .

Graham could surely play and set a Seahawks TE record for tds or catches or something . His injury couldn’t be foreseen. As for the wisdom of trading unger not so much . But guys like him are wasted on Russ because he spreads it around anyway . DK is learning that .

As for Adams he’s been balling out lately , way too expensive but 2 picks and a hitting machine . He also drew a holding call. He’s not the current problem. Brown was a good signing . Clowney? He made some plays .
The ignoring of the running back situation coupled with bad drafts have left the cupboard bare . Penney we can scratch our heads forever . He had a 2 game stretch in 2019 when he looked the part of a first rounder with speed to take it to the house . Then that knee injury and it’s been one thing or another . He had that nice initial run a couple weeks ago and tweaked it again Carson was a bad gamble I hope they don’t make again . I really like our young guys and some around the league thing PC should be giving them carries instead of the old washed up child abuser .
Other teams lose starters at RB and beat us namely Green Bay and AZ who had no QB. Ditto for Washington and they ran and passed on us with an undersized castoff . When you sign AP it tells you how bad it is in our RB stable .

But regardless . Teams run to throw or throw to run as Hass and SA did so well with that great line . But it takes rythm which we don’t have and that’s on the signal caller behind center . We can blame Waldron or the line all we want , bad drafts etc, but in the here and now had our QB been merely average we would have double the wins at least . We’ve had guys open enough times to win , to move the chains.

I watched a film analysis of the failed 2 point try. Brutal . Guys wide open right after the snap and he freezes and holds it . Everett who is a load was one on one on the right hash , wide open . Didn’t even look at him , just stared at the middle drawing 3 defenders including the one that picked off the ball. The network analysts were bewildered by Russels lack of field awareness . Nobody can figure it out .

It’s a dead horse but Russ has always been our biggest asset and we will never win with him playing this way

[NorthHawk]

I have a theory. When Pete first took this job after 9 years at USC, he had either recruited players or had contacts that gave him inside information on college players that he, or his contacts, knew would fit his system. Richard Sherman played at Stanford, Brandon Browner Oregon State, Bobby Wagner Utah State (via LA), Marshawn Lynch Cal, Earl Thomas Texas, and so on. The further he got away from college, the worse his drafting got.

Like I said, it's only a theory.

It might only be partly true because he did play against some of those players so he saw them first hand, but his contacts are still around - or were up until the last couple of years as we saw with him calling Ogeron
before drafting Lewis. They don't ghost him because he's no longer a College coach. I think there are a number of things gone wrong with one being either a poor scouting dept or getting qualities to look for that
no longer work in the NFL The second thing is passing by great talent that would fit in our system for other players that were either home runs or strike outs. I keep going on about the running backs, but it's the
same with Centers after trading away our Pro Bowl C for Graham (who they tried to turn into a blocker). They've never fixed the C position since Unger left, and that's what, 6 drafts? The RB situation started with
Christian Michael and although Carson fits the mold of a tough runner, he just gets too beat up to depend on.

[Hawktawk]

That’s quite plausible . A good example might be Carroll’s cheesy comments about AP. “ we finally got him” PC went on to say he’s known him since he was in high school . I know Sherman was recruited by PC who told him up front he’d make him a shutdown corner . So he went to Stanford and they did it to him there . So many examples . People forget PC had 2 other stops in NE and NY in the show before USC . I like your theory when you look at how many of the key pieces came early , Kam , ET, Wags, Irvin is a forgotten man but contributed . Of course Russ and even Robert Turbin was a key backup for a couple years . But the backs good lord I remember JS gushing over Christine Micheal who started the ice bowl but otherwise was ineffective . Penny nuff said . Trying to think of good recent picks . Lock , DK I think but getting the head right and getting on the same page as the qb would help . Some of the picks in the defense right now look solid when they aren’t hurt .
But surely there has been no draft like the first few .

[NorthHawk]

That’s quite plausible . A good example might be Carroll’s cheesy comments about AP. “ we finally got him” PC went on to say he’s known him since he was in high school . I know Sherman was recruited by PC who told him up front he’d make him a shutdown corner . So he went to Stanford and they did it to him there . So many examples . People forget PC had 2 other stops in NE and NY in the show before USC . I like your theory when you look at how many of the key pieces came early , Kam , ET, Wags, Irvin is a forgotten man but contributed . Of course Russ and even Robert Turbin was a key backup for a couple years . But the backs good lord I remember JS gushing over Christine Micheal who started the ice bowl but otherwise was ineffective . Penny nuff said . Trying to think of good recent picks . Lock , DK I think but getting the head right and getting on the same page as the qb would help . Some of the picks in the defense right now look solid when they aren’t hurt .
But surely there has been no draft like the first few .

Irvin might be the forgotten man, but we passed by Fletcher Cox to get him. Which player had the better career?
That choice might be the first of the swing for the fence type of draft picks and he was a fit for Pete's Defense, but it was still a gamble relative to Cox.
Cox, people forget played DE in College and moved to DT on passing downs where he was a terror and there were some scouts who thought he was a better
DE than DT. That kind of flexibility might have been a better fit with Bennett and the DL than Irvin was.

[Hawktawk]

Unquestionably Cox was the better choice . There were so many hits in those days it’s forgiveable. Eskridge etc not so much

[TriCitySam]

Certainly been some draft failures, and that is the area that needs the most attention. However, virtually EVERY franchise has down years and needs to reset Belechick went 7-9; John Harbaugh went 5-11 (along with other very unimpressive years) - in a league of salary cap and parity you can't avoid it. That's why a 10 year run of winning football is so impressive. As to the fans crowing about throwing everybody out, they would howl to high heaven if they followed any other franchise. Foolish.