Seahawks Ownership And The Looming Decisions This Offseason

[RiverDog]

I read an interesting article that I thought worth sharing. I've cut out some of the background information and stuff that we all are already aware of:

The future of Wilson may very well be tied to the future of the front office, at which point the key question can only be answered by Jody Allen and Vulcan Inc ownership.

There’s been a lot of speculation on this site and among Seahawks fans about Jody’s involvement in the organization and her interest in the team. Recently Pete Carroll confirmed that him and John Schneider both had a “normal” (emphasis on that word) midseason meeting with her prior to the Cardinals loss.

As for what Jody Allen will do? We don’t know. There’s just not enough information to make a grand conclusion one way or the other. And it’s okay to say there isn’t an answer yet because prior to this season, there hasn’t been some catastrophe to warrant ownership’s involvement in over a decade. We don’t know in-depth about her passion for the team or her knowledge of the sport or the people within Vulcan Inc and the Seahawks organization to make a well-informed guess. At a minimum I don’t think she’s clueless and uncaring nor is there any evidence to suggest otherwise.

But that isn’t to say we can’t take clues from the Blazers, the other Vulcan-owned team, as far as her decision making.

This past offseason the Blazers fired head coach Terry Stotts after nine seasons with the team, eight of which ended in playoff appearances and the team’s first Western Conference Finals appearance since 2000. It was a warranted firing because it felt like the team was jogging in place given they have one of the NBA’s highest payrolls. Reporting from The Athletic indicated that Jody Allen and ownership put the Blazers’ 2020-21 season under a microscope, and despite being a perennial playoff team, the many early (and often non-competitive) exits prompted Stotts’ departure.

When Paul was alive, Stotts was reportedly on the verge of being fired after an embarrassing sweep against the New Orleans Pelicans in 2017-18. Portland made the WCF after Paul’s death, and Stotts was given a contract extension that he ultimately did not see out. General manager Neil Olshey also got an extension through 2024, but he is now under investigation (launched by Allen) for workplace misconduct. His roster and salary cap mismanagement, newfound disregard for draft capital, and completely off-putting, blame-deflecting behavior is grounds for termination in itself but that’s just me venting. Portland has a more traditional HC/GM structure compared to the Seahawks, but you get the idea.

It’s possible that Allen and everyone else involved in job evaluation will see this season as a blip and that past success and the circumstances of Wilson’s injury should grant everyone involved another season to get it together. Should the same problems persist in 2022 then the red button is pressed to blow this whole thing up. I don’t agree with it and think there are signs that this ship is going down not unlike the end of the Holmgren years, but I can envision that as a reason not to make drastic changes. Alternatively, the shake-up is happening and we won’t see all three of John, Pete, and Russell together come Week 1 next year; it’s just a matter of who leaves and how their respect(ive) contract situations are handled.

Whatever the case, this is the first time since Paul’s passing that the Seahawks have experienced the kind of turmoil that merits ownership’s serious assessment of the front office, head coach, yes, even the franchise quarterback. These decisions will go a long way towards shaping up the long-term outlook of this franchise, which has experienced so much winning with little interruption for nearly two decades that many younger/newer fans know not of the meandering mediocrity that was nearly the whole of the 1990s.

Buckle up, Seahawks fans. If you’ve been wondering aloud what Jody Allen and Vulcan Inc think about the direction of this team, you’re about to get your answer very soon, but not before we endure the rest of this season first.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/th ... li=BBnbfcL

[NorthHawk]

Interesting article. I don't follow BB, so I didn't know about that team and the firing of its coach.
One question that comes to mind is does Jody Allen even like football or is it just another investment to her?
I don't know if anyone really knows how she looks at it, but missing the playoffs might make her ask how the record has been since the SB win.
That seems to parallel the Blazers record to a degree so who knows what's going to happen. This might be a real bumpy ride like the article said.

[RiverDog]

Interesting article. I don't follow BB, so I didn't know about that team and the firing of its coach.
One question that comes to mind is does Jody Allen even like football or is it just another investment to her?
I don't know if anyone really knows how she looks at it, but missing the playoffs might make her ask how the record has been since the SB win.
That seems to parallel the Blazers record to a degree so who knows what's going to happen. This might be a real bumpy ride like the article said.

Jody Allen has raised the 12th man flag before. When you consider how reclusive she is, I doubt that she'd place herself out there like that if all she had was a passing interest.

I don't follow the NBA very closely, either, but the recent situation with the Blazers and their head coach bears an uncanny resemblance to the situation the Seahawks have now with Pete/John: A team that makes the playoffs regularly but seems to be jogging in place, a head coach that was still under contract, etc. It's as much evidence that we have that there may be at least a coaching change next season.

[TriCitySam]

Bert Kolde was Allen's confidant and right hand man. While we don't know about Jody, as the #2 behind her and the guy running Vulcan's "Sports Strategy" it seems likely at this time he's the guy who will be advising or calling shots.

[c_hawkbob]

That's an excellent article Riv, thanks. Comparing how Jody and the Vulcan people handled the Blazers I think is very relevant and could well portend what is coming this offseason.

[obiken]

Whats coming in the off-season? What should happen is RW stays and PC goes. What will happen, RW goes and PC stays, that's just the reality. IF they force Russ to stay that is the nightmare scenario. Some of the worse divorces in life, are two good people who love each other but cannot live together, because neither wants to be the bad guy.

[c_hawkbob]

I disagree. I think Russ stays and Pete goes is a far preferable scenario to the inverse. Pete is 70 and I honestly believe he's about done, certainly in a year or two at most. Losing a franchise QB is always worse than losing a coach.

[RiverDog]

I disagree. I think Russ stays and Pete goes is a far preferable scenario to the inverse. Pete is 70 and I honestly believe he's about done, certainly in a year or two at most. Losing a franchise QB is always worse than losing a coach.

I agree with Cbob. Although I'm not sure that it's the most preferable, it's the most likely of the two scenarios. It's a lot easier to fire a head coach than it is to pull off a mega deal with a franchise quarterback that has a no trade clause. Russell has to want to go and the team he signs off on has to have the capital necessary for us to agree to the deal.

[obiken]

I disagree. I think Russ stays and Pete goes is a far preferable scenario to the inverse. Pete is 70 and I honestly believe he's about done, certainly in a year or two at most. Losing a franchise QB is always worse than losing a coach.

I agree Cbob, River, but I dont see management getting emotionally involved enough to give PC the hook, I hope I am wrong.

[Hawktawk]

I say clean house . Carroll has lost credibility badly with his favoritism of Russ . And one more time . Russ. Isn’t. A . Franchise. QB anymore .

He’s had one clean game all year . He was dreadful in the playoff game . His last 4 starts we are averaging under 8 points per game . As Brock Huard said after listing Russes many accomplishments over 10 years and acknowledging his greatness “ he’s not a good QB right now “.

Forget franchise . Forget great . Not good . And I believe his selfishness and narcissism caused him to jam Carroll into letting him on the field weeks too soon . I have lots of reasons for believing it including Petes comments and then handing off with the left hand and running shotgun . It was about Russ the superhero enhancing his brand , not about helping the team . and his play this year and especially since returning has been the main reason we’re out of the playoffs .

Why bring the little dictator back to dominate a new coach ? Time to move on . If Jodie handles this like the Blazers I’d say it’s time . The kicker was Russes petulant attitude in the off-season . It really diminished his pool of goodwill and now he’s playing bad . They are both done here . Or need to be . We have 1 playoff win in 5 years . ARod gets grief for losing the nfc title game every year .
Wake up 12s

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm ok keeping Russ and moving on from Pete. Not Russ's fault Pete and John traded away draft picks for players they don't keep or who don't improve the team as needed. All Pete and John's bad roster management has finally caught up with them and Russ can't somehow make it all work this year even though he's trying. He don't have the juice this year. We don't have enough defense and run game to help Russ enough. This situation we're in is basically down to bad roster management. Bad O-line picks year after year. Bad defensive picks while losing key defensive players. And coaching like you still have studs at RB and on on defense that can shut people down. The Db situation has been terrible and we're using throwaway CBs from other teams and our D-line is a shadow of what it was.

[RiverDog]

I'm ok keeping Russ and moving on from Pete. Not Russ's fault Pete and John traded away draft picks for players they don't keep or who don't improve the team as needed. All Pete and John's bad roster management has finally caught up with them and Russ can't somehow make it all work this year even though he's trying. He don't have the juice this year. We don't have enough defense and run game to help Russ enough. This situation we're in is basically down to bad roster management. Bad O-line picks year after year. Bad defensive picks while losing key defensive players. And coaching like you still have studs at RB and on on defense that can shut people down. The Db situation has been terrible and we're using throwaway CBs from other teams and our D-line is a shadow of what it was.

It's all up to Russell. If he wants to stay here, get his input heard on a new coaching staff, then I'm good with it. Despite his recent play, I still think he's a good quarterback, much better than we could hope for in the draft or free agency. But if he wants out, there's no sense in forcing him to play in a location where he's not happy and fully committed to rebuilding this team. Any arguments I make regarding a Russell trade assumes that he wants to be traded.

[c_hawkbob]

I say clean house . Carroll has lost credibility badly with his favoritism of Russ . And one more time . Russ. Isn’t. A . Franchise. QB anymore .

You can say it, write it or express it any way you want, it's not going to make it any more true. There are at least 25 head coaches and owners that would jump at he chance to prove you wrong. It would be the stupidest move in NFL history to get rid of both halves of the winningest formula in team history. One or the other. Absolutely not both.

[RiverDog]

You can say it, write it or express it any way you want, it's not going to make it any more true. There are at least 25 head coaches and owners that would jump at he chance to prove you wrong. It would be the stupidest move in NFL history to get rid of both halves of the winningest formula in team history. One or the other. Absolutely not both.

It's not the team's move, not as it applies to Russell. If he wants out, I can't see forcing him to stay. Can you?

[obiken]

It's not the team's move, not as it applies to Russell. If he wants out, I can't see forcing him to stay. Can you?

Yes, it would be Deshaun Watson on Steroids, but yeah I can.

[c_hawkbob]

It's not the team's move, not as it applies to Russell. If he wants out, I can't see forcing him to stay. Can you?

While he's under contract sure, and then a year or two of F-tag if it comes to that. As of now, without any tag years he's not a free agent until 2024.

If the decision is made to move on from Pete the move from management would be to fully involve Russ every step of the way including giving him an input (NOT final say) into the hiring of Pete's replacement. If that's the route we go we make it completely clear that we are doing so to address his concerns and rebuild a winner around him.

[RiverDog]

While he's under contract sure, and then a year or two of F-tag if it comes to that. As of now, without any tag years he's not a free agent until 2024.

If the decision is made to move on from Pete the move from management would be to fully involve Russ every step of the way including giving him an input (NOT final say) into the hiring of Pete's replacement. If that's the route we go we make it completely clear that we are doing so to address his concerns and rebuild a winner around him.

I would agree with your second paragraph ONLY if Russell is totally committed to staying with us. At this point, that's far from a certainty.

[Aseahawkfan]

If we go into full rebuild mode, maybe trade Russ to get some draft capital to get going. That's the only reason I would trade Russ.

[obiken]

I would agree with your second paragraph ONLY if Russell is totally committed to staying with us. At this point, that's far from a certainty.

Would you trade Carr for RW?

[Hawktawk]

I would. Yes .

[Hawktawk]

You can say it, write it or express it any way you want, it's not going to make it any more true. There are at least 25 head coaches and owners that would jump at he chance to prove you wrong. It would be the stupidest move in NFL history to get rid of both halves of the winningest formula in team history. One or the other. Absolutely not both.

Ok Bob . Assuming you’re right who are these 25 GMs? As I look around the league and watch 2 straight up
athletically unremarkable backups outplay Russ by miles as we average 7 points a game . Yeah it was the winningest formula in team history by miles but that was in 2013 and 2014. Since then we might as well have had Holmgren and Matt and SA cause that’s what they were too. A first round one and done popcorn fart after XL with a few wild card wins that fell off a cliff after years of upper middle class mediocrity . I’ve been around long enough to remember you defending those guys when they faded as a great fan does. I truly pull for Russ for his sake and for Seattle . I just have been watching a long time and I don’t think we’re ever going to see premium Russ again . Too much wrong with the body and even more in the brain . I hope you’re right and it’s all a blip because maybe I can watch a couple wins and an offense that can move the ball.

[RiverDog]

I would agree with your second paragraph ONLY if Russell is totally committed to staying with us. At this point, that's far from a certainty.

Would you trade Carr for RW?

Straight up? Hell, no.

The whole point of trading Russell would be to re-stock our draft. Outside of a few young QB's like Mahomes, Jackson, and Allen, I wouldn't trade him for anyone unless it included a couple of #1's at a minimum. The reason the Giants would look enticing is that they are sitting on two top ten picks, which makes them more valuable than future #1's of which we don't know where they'll be slotted at.

[RiverDog]

Ok Bob . Assuming you’re right who are these 25 GMs? As I look around the league and watch 2 straight up

Athletically unremarkable backups outplay Russ by miles as we average 7 points a game . Yeah it was the winningest formula in team history by miles but that was in 2013 and 2014. Since then we might as well have had Holmgren and Matt and SA cause that’s what they were too. A first round one and done popcorn fart after XL with a few wild card wins that fell off a cliff after years of upper middle class mediocrity . I’ve been around long enough to remember you defending those guys when they faded as a great fan does. I truly pull for Russ for his sake and for Seattle . I just have been watching a long time and I don’t think we’re ever going to see premium Russ again . Too much wrong with the body and even more in the brain . I hope you’re right and it’s all a blip because maybe I can watch a couple wins and an offense that can move the ball.

The truth is in the middle. I think that 25 is an overstatement. Are there only 6 teams that would not trade their QB straight up for Russell? Let's see, there's KC, Buffalo, Green Bay (unless Rodgers still wants out), Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Arizona, New England, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Chargers, Minnesota, along with a number of maybes like Dallas, Las Vegas, and Cleveland.

But there's A LOT more than two teams that would trade their QB for Russell straight up. IMO the Rams would gladly give us Stafford for Russell, the Steelers a rusting Worthlessburger, Denver would swap Bridgewater in a heartbeat, the Saints wouldn't hesitate to trade Jamis Winston, the Panthers would give us Cam for a used jock strap, and the Texans would trade all 3 QB's on their roster. And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure that there are others.

Despite how poorly he's played recently, there's still a very good a market for Russell's services. But it's not improving.

[c_hawkbob]

Sorry but I think Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence and Cousins (are you kidding?) at least are no brainers. And even GB and TB in the very near future if not now. I don't care how superhuman Brady seems, it just can't go on indefinitely.

[RiverDog]

Sorry but I think Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence and Cousins (are you kidding?) at least are no brainers. And even GB and TB in the very near future if not now. I don't care how superhuman Brady seems, it just can't go on indefinitely.

OK, I might be talked into putting Cousins into the Maybe category with Prescott and Carr simply due to his age. But Cousins has been playing very well, has only thrown 3 picks all year and has the Vikings in the middle of the playoff hunt. I wouldn't trade him for Russell and certainly not the way Russ has been playing and when there's a question mark about his health, but that's just me.

But if the GM of the Bengals, with his team currently sitting on the #6 seed and just one game out of the division lead with 6 games to go, were to trade Joe Burrow, one year displaced from the #1 overall selection and that has been playing well enough to be ranked 7th in the league, or the Jags, currently rebuilding around last year's #1 overall that has yet to play a full season, if either of them were to give up on their #1 overall QB's for a 33 year old QB with a damaged finger on his throwing hand that hasn't played consistently well for over a year, they'd have to have their heads examined.

And I made the assumption that we were talking about a possible trade of Russell before the next draft, not 2 or 3 years from now, which is why I listed TB and GB. Plus I was being very generous in not including Prescott in the no brainer category, as he's 5 years younger, healthier, and has been playing a couple levels above Russell, who quite frankly, has been stinking up the place.

[Hawktawk]

Sorry but I think Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence and Cousins (are you kidding?) at least are no brainers. And even GB and TB in the very near future if not now. I don't care how superhuman Brady seems, it just

OK, I might be talked into putting Cousins into the Maybe category with Prescott and Carr simply due to his age. But Cousins has been playing very well, has only thrown 3 picks all year and has the Vikings in the middle of the playoff hunt. I wouldn't trade him for Russell and certainly not the way Russ has been playing and when there's a question mark about his health, but that's just me.

But if the GM of the Bengals, with his team currently sitting on the #6 seed and just one game out of the division lead with 6 games to go, were to trade Joe Burrow, one year displaced from the #1 overall selection and that has been playing well enough to be ranked 7th in the league, or the Jags, currently rebuilding around last year's #1 overall that has yet to play a full season, if either of them were to give up on their #1 overall QB's for a 33 year old QB with a damaged finger on his throwing hand that hasn't played consistently well for over a year, you'd have to have your head examined.

And I made the assumption that we were talking about a possible trade of Russell before the next draft, not 2 or 3 years from now, which is why I listed TB and GB. Plus I was being very generous in not including Prescott in the no brainer category, as he's 5 years younger, healthier, and has been playing a couple levels above Russell, who quite frankly, has been stinking up the place.

I just went to the stats to see what all these lousy QBs that teams can't wait to get rid of and bring in little superman are playing like.
Carr 3400 yards 17 TD and 9 picks and a nice looking game on thanksgiving knocking off Dallas despite losing his mentor-coach and his top wideout in an unspeakable act of stupidity.
Did someone say Dak? Twice the man right now.
Stafford who the Rams would leap to trade for a guy they OWN EVERY TIME it seems? 27 TDs and 9 picks , 3400 yards.
Cousins?????????????? 34 TDs 3 picks and he hung up 34 points vs the Pack one week after Russ pitched a goose egg . He owns the NFL record for completion % in a single season, well over 70%. Id take that guy pronto. Think of the hardware he might have if he didn't face A rod twice a year.
Burrows is 22 and 12 and a cocky brash young kid on a competitive team that's won several divisional games. The kind of guy I want next. Lawrence? As you say RD Meyer might as well get ready for unemployment if you drafted this generational talent Lawrence and kick him loose now. Its a fantasy. Whether hes a bust or not hes going nowhere for 3 years. Meyer will be gone first if he doesn't look like a generational talent pretty soon.
Winston has 14 TDs and 3 picks by the way. Tasem hill will start this weekend. Tua is 14 and 6 in part time duty and completing 70 % of his passes PLAYING ON A BROKEN FINGER IN HIS THROWING HAND. Some of the rest? Sure they need a QB but do they break the bank for what were seeing here?

RD you kind make my point when you point out he's 33 with a bad finger and hasn't played really well for a year "stinking up the place". The last 4 games he's started he's throw 2 TD passes and 4 picks if you count the failed 2 point that was absolutely botched by Russel's indecision and paralysis on the play despite several" nfl open "guys. Its what we see in the key moments now, the must have plays, the third downs. I've seen enough to make up my mind. Should he come out and go off for 400 and 4 TDs like good Russ Ill eat the crow gladly.
I think the chariot turned to a pumpkin. It was always too good to be true, Russ was. It was awesome but now its gone.

[curmudgeon]

An exorcism is necessary. EVERYONE needs to go……

[RiverDog]

I just went to the stats to see what all these lousy QBs that teams can't wait to get rid of and bring in little superman are playing like.
Carr 3400 yards 17 TD and 9 picks and a nice looking game on thanksgiving knocking off Dallas despite losing his mentor-coach and his top wideout in an unspeakable act of stupidity.
Did someone say Dak? Twice the man right now.
Stafford who the Rams would leap to trade for a guy they OWN EVERY TIME it seems? 27 TDs and 9 picks , 3400 yards.
Cousins?????????????? 34 TDs 3 picks and he hung up 34 points vs the Pack one week after Russ pitched a goose egg . He owns the NFL record for completion % in a single season, well over 70%. Id take that guy pronto. Think of the hardware he might have if he didn't face A rod twice a year.
Burrows is 22 and 12 and a cocky brash young kid on a competitive team that's won several divisional games. The kind of guy I want next. Lawrence? As you say RD Meyer might as well get ready for unemployment if you drafted this generational talent Lawrence and kick him loose now. Its a fantasy. Whether hes a bust or not hes going nowhere for 3 years. Meyer will be gone first if he doesn't look like a generational talent pretty soon.
Winston has 14 TDs and 3 picks by the way. Tasem hill will start this weekend. Tua is 14 and 6 in part time duty and completing 70 % of his passes PLAYING ON A BROKEN FINGER IN HIS THROWING HAND. Some of the rest? Sure they need a QB but do they break the bank for what were seeing here?

RD you kind make my point when you point out he's 33 with a bad finger and hasn't played really well for a year "stinking up the place". The last 4 games he's started he's throw 2 TD passes and 4 picks if you count the failed 2 point that was absolutely botched by Russel's indecision and paralysis on the play despite several" nfl open "guys. Its what we see in the key moments now, the must have plays, the third downs. I've seen enough to make up my mind. Should he come out and go off for 400 and 4 TDs like good Russ Ill eat the crow gladly.
I think the chariot turned to a pumpkin. It was always too good to be true, Russ was. It was awesome but now its gone.

Yeah, but if I read your comments right (they were a little jumbled up), you had just two GM's that would trade their starting QB for Russell. Which of the following is it that you don't think would swap their current QB for Russell, keeping in mind that you have to eliminate all but two: Lions, Panthers, Texans, Steelers, Jets, Dolphins, Bears, Broncos, WTF, and Giants? And that's giving you the questionable ones, like the Rams, where Stafford has face planted big time in the past 3 games, the Colts and Wentz, and the Titans and Tannehill. I could absolutely see a lot more than two of those teams rolling the dice on a QB that is an 8-time Pro Bowler.

I agree with you that 25 is over the top, but saying that there's just 2 out of the 31 other GM's that would swap their QB for Russell is going to get you demoted into the hater category.

[Rambo2014]

I never was a Matt Stafford guy as he regresses to throwing many pics. As far as the rams getting Wilson I would say its a ho hum and neutral effect. Always thought his problem is his height. Many of you tried to poo poo that for 10 years but as he slows on his feet the height thing is more important.

[NorthHawk]

Yeah, but if I read your comments right (they were a little jumbled up), you had just two GM's that would trade their starting QB for Russell. Which of the following is it that you don't think would swap their current QB for Russell, keeping in mind that you have to eliminate all but two: Lions, Panthers, Texans, Steelers, Jets, Dolphins, Bears, Broncos, WTF, and Giants? And that's giving you the questionable ones, like the Rams, where Stafford has face planted big time in the past 3 games, the Colts and Wentz, and the Titans and Tannehill. I could absolutely see a lot more than two of those teams rolling the dice on a QB that is an 8-time Pro Bowler.

I agree with you that 25 is over the top, but saying that there's just 2 out of the 31 other GM's that would swap their QB for Russell is going to get you demoted into the hater category.

A real list would have to take into account what teams Wilson would really go to. His list last year only included teams with an Offensive HC, and I doubt that criteria would change after this year.

[RiverDog]

A real list would have to take into account what teams Wilson would really go to. His list last year only included teams with an Offensive HC, and I doubt that criteria would change after this year.

That's true, but that wasn't part of the premise. We were talking about how many GM's would trade their QB for Russell.

But as long as we're including other factors, another would be what teams would have the assets that could be used in a trade, which is why there's so much speculation of the Giants' potential interest.

[obiken]

I would. Yes .

Me too, younger and underrated!

[Hawktawk]

Rd not sure the math . I’d say Tampa,9ers , Rams , Zona, Tenessee ? Vikes , KC, chargers , bills , jets, Bears , Bengals , ravens , Miami , Indy , eagles , maybe the skins the way Heinike has played last 4 all wins . Nobody is going away from those starters IMO. Add Jax due to who they drafted , basically the same as the jets. That’s 18 places I can’t see going after Wilson unless he’s not stinking up the joint and being petulant to boot . The Giants are a feasible option but again , we see what we see . Is it the finger ? It has nothing to do with throwing it out of bounds with a wide open receiver streaking across the field . And speaking of the finger I was at my orthopedic surgeon today for my left shoulder which is bone on bone . He’s a younger sports savvy dude big huskies zags and hawks fan . He said Russ definitely came back too soon . The pin is supposed to stay in A MINIMUM OF 6 WEEKS. Then therapy before normal activities . Russ pin was pulled at 3.5 weeks . I’m actually pissed, angry the team allowed this and ruined our season . I’m no Russ hater but I’m a realist . I see what I see . It’s mental more than physical but Russ greatest asset has never been pre snap reads but finding the open guy , buying time and dropping it on them with devastating accuracy . Now he’s got neither . In this qb starved league he will have a job somewhere but there’s a huge difference in the blockbuster that would have happened last offseason and anything that might happen now. Cam Newton is a cautionary tale of a guy that just lost it . Russ is far from being that but it’s the same trajectory . Time to move on .
Prove me wrong Russ , please

[RiverDog]

Rd not sure the math . I’d say Tampa,9ers , Rams , Zona, Tenessee ? Vikes , KC, chargers , bills , jets, Bears , Bengals , ravens , Miami , Indy , eagles , maybe the skins the way Heinike has played last 4 all wins . Nobody is going away from those starters IMO. Add Jax due to who they drafted , basically the same as the jets. That’s 18 places I can’t see going after Wilson unless he’s not stinking up the joint and being petulant to boot

18 places leaves you 11 short of the 2 places you said were the only ones you could see doing a swap. It was a preposterous statement that you should just correct and move on.

[Hawktawk]

18 places leaves you 11 short of the 2 places you said were the only ones you could see doing a swap. It was a preposterous statement that you should just correct and move on.

You need a reading comprehension review.

I said" as I look around the league I see 2 athletically unremarkable backups outplay Russ by miles as we average 7 points per game". That would have been Colt McCoy and Taylor Heineken who completely outplayed a future HOF in a must win game, one at home. I named 18 teams with no interest IMO and I did so based on what they have and what Russ appears to have left. Honestly I have no idea who might bite with guys like Dalton , Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Fitzpatrick still drawing a paycheck. Hell Rosins got a job . But the preposterous position is thinking any of this no trade clause stuff is relevant and who will be interested or should we keep him is the point right now. Point is he SUCKS and will help nobody including us but rather the opposite as weve seen unless he becomes someone he hasn't been in about a calendar year now. 10 year vets that suddenly cant read the field have been hit too much. Other than Kurt Warner I've never seen too many who can come back from it.

It was beautiful. Thanks for the memories. I've seen enough to believe we are gonna suck and hear a lot of happy talk at press conferences till they pull the ripcord on this entire shebang.

[Aseahawkfan]

Damn. Some people turn on Russ very easily. One down year after his first serious injury and some of the fan base ready to toss Russ out. And you wonder why these athletes want to leave or switch teams easily when the fan base can just turn on them at the drop of a hat and want to get rid of them with no thought to all they've done for the franchise. There is no loyalty amongst fans, no idea why fans expect athletes to remain with a team for less money or show any loyalty given how fast a fan base will turn on them during a down period.

[RiverDog]

18 places leaves you 11 short of the 2 places you said were the only ones you could see doing a swap. It was a preposterous statement that you should just correct and move on.

You need a reading comprehension review.

I said" as I look around the league I see 2 athletically unremarkable backups outplay Russ by miles as we average 7 points per game". That would have been Colt McCoy and Taylor Heineken who completely outplayed a future HOF in a must win game, one at home. I named 18 teams with no interest IMO and I did so based on what they have and what Russ appears to have left. Honestly I have no idea who might bite with guys like Dalton , Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Fitzpatrick still drawing a paycheck. Hell Rosins got a job . But the preposterous position is thinking any of this no trade clause stuff is relevant and who will be interested or should we keep him is the point right now. Point is he SUCKS and will help nobody including us but rather the opposite as weve seen unless he becomes someone he hasn't been in about a calendar year now. 10 year vets that suddenly cant read the field have been hit too much. Other than Kurt Warner I've never seen too many who can come back from it.

It was beautiful. Thanks for the memories. I've seen enough to believe we are gonna suck and hear a lot of happy talk at press conferences till they pull the ripcord on this entire shebang.

I have no problem with reading comprehension, but I'm not a mind reader, either. Here's what you said that confused me: Assuming you’re right who are these 25 GMs? As I look around the league and watch 2 straight up

Since the discussion was which teams would trade their QB for Russell to which Cbob said 25 of them, I assumed that when you said "2 straight up" that you meant that there were only two teams that would trade their QB "straight up", meaning no draft picks or additional players. You said nothing about backups outplaying Russell until now.

[RiverDog]

Damn. Some people turn on Russ very easily. One down year after his first serious injury and some of the fan base ready to toss Russ out. And you wonder why these athletes want to leave or switch teams easily when the fan base can just turn on them at the drop of a hat and want to get rid of them with no thought to all they've done for the franchise. There is no loyalty amongst fans, no idea why fans expect athletes to remain with a team for less money or show any loyalty given how fast a fan base will turn on them during a down period.

I haven't "turned on Russ" as I've repeatedly said that I'm good with him staying if he's fully committed and is willing to participate in a rebuild, but neither am I married to him, either. Since the advent of free agency, both in football as well as other sports, I've been heartbroken time and time again when an athlete that I got emotionally attached to burned me by leaving my favorite team, almost always for an obscene amount of money (Alex Rodriguez and Steve Hutchinson are two that come to mind). Now I look at players a lot more coldheartedly than I ever used to, like they're temporary employees hired to help the company turn a profit rather than the family friend as I used to consider them as. "It's a business", or so they tell me.

[Hawktawk]

Damn. Some people turn on Russ very easily. One down year after his first serious injury and some of the fan base ready to toss Russ out. And you wonder why these athletes want to leave or switch teams easily when the fan base can just turn on them at the drop of a hat and want to get rid of them with no thought to all they've done for the franchise. There is no loyalty amongst fans, no idea why fans expect athletes to remain with a team for less money or show any loyalty given how fast a fan base will turn on them during a down period.

I’m a fan of the team first and any individual player second . I’ve loved the Russ Wilson era . But IMO it’s over in terms of a winning formula here . We’ve won 1 playoff game since the 2016 season . Russ has become more and more commercial, more about self every year. Last offseason was the culmination with the petulant whining about getting hit and leaking teams he’d go to . On the heels of his DREADFUL playoff loss no less . His play had been sub par much of the second half of 20 which has nothing to do with the injury . Now 2021 . He was terribly inconsistent before the injury . His last win was against our next opponent and he had 5 straight 3 and outs in that game too. Love Russ . He’s done . This is never going to get much better . I’d rather see him go elsewhere than watch him totally melt down here . For his legacy . For my sanity and most of all for my team . It’s time to cut the cord on the era .

[RiverDog]

I’m a fan of the team first and any individual player second . I’ve loved the Russ Wilson era . But IMO it’s over in terms of a winning formula here . We’ve won 1 playoff game since the 2016 season . Russ has become more and more commercial, more about self every year. Last offseason was the culmination with the petulant whining about getting hit and leaking teams he’d go to . On the heels of his DREADFUL playoff loss no less . His play had been sub par much of the second half of 20 which has nothing to do with the injury . Now 2021 . He was terribly inconsistent before the injury . His last win was against our next opponent and he had 5 straight 3 and outs in that game too. Love Russ . He’s done . This is never going to get much better . I’d rather see him go elsewhere than watch him totally melt down here . For his legacy . For my sanity and most of all for my team . It’s time to cut the cord on the era .

Although I'm not quite ready to cut the cord with Russell the way you are, I agree with you regarding team first, player second. I also agree with your timeline. Russell has not played consistently well since midway through last season and ended the year on a really sour note. His play this season, especially since the first half of the Titans game, has been horrid. Even though his overall stats look OK, he has the worst 3rd down completion percentage in the league, the primary reason why we are last in 3rd down conversions and TOP, putting immense pressure on our suspect defense.