Are We As Bad As I Think?

[RiverDog]

We'll, I simply don't get anybody's that is disappointed in the last 7 years. Other than NE, who has done better? Answer is nobody. Not GB, not KC, not Baltimore. So, so hard to win. Completely unrealistic.

I know all about our overall regular season success over the past 7 years, and that's a real nice tidbit for a trivia contest. What about our playoff record over those past 7 years? We're 3-5, including one year when we missed the playoffs altogether. For a team that went to two straight Super Bowls, that's very telling of the direction of the franchise. We're going the wrong way.

Unless we win the Super Bowl, I'm disappointed at the end of every season. You know how you go into a doctor and he wants to know on a scale of 1 to 10 what your pain level is? Well, at the end of the 2015 season, my disappointment level might have been a 2, the end of 2016, it reached a 3, and so on. It's a cumulative process. The further we get away from our last SB, the more intense that disappointment becomes. I hit a 9 after the playoff loss to the Rams and unless something drastic happens in our last 7 games, I will have reached the end of my patience. I want to see a change, and I fully understand the risks. It's a chance I'm willing to take.

[Hawktawk]

I’m with you . Unless an absolute miracle happens and Seattle runs off 6 of 7 and backs in and wins a playoff game they will have exactly one playoff WIN in 5 seasons . The Eagles in 19 with their backup 17 year vet after Wendz self reported a concussion . That was the DK wave goodbye . We here in Seattle are far more patient , more complacent than most fans . But what have you done for me lately ? 3 wildcard wins and 2 wildcard losses including the brutal home loss . Goose egg in 3 divisional games since SB 49. It’s been smoke and mirrors when it really counts for quite a while now . I saw where Bob Condotta said PC has earned another season if he wants it . I don’t agree .

[RiverDog]

We'll, I simply don't get anybody's that is disappointed in the last 7 years. Other than NE, who has done better? Answer is nobody. Not GB, not KC, not Baltimore. So, so hard to win. Completely unrealistic.

You're not all wrong. Pete did a fantastic job of building what is undoubtedly the best stretch of football this franchise has ever seen and one of the best in the 21st century. From the 2012 season, Russell's rookie year when we ended the year by losing a very close playoff game in Atlanta through Super Bowl 49, a loss that in retrospect was the beginning of the end, we were the best team in the league, fielding one of the most feared defenses ever.

With the exception of Bill Belichick, who is possessed with some sort of weird, unexplained magic that no one before and likely no one after him, has been able to acquire, every coaching regime has an expiration date printed on it, and although it was in some sort of unreadable code, we've recently deciphered it as Feb. 1st, 2015. Pete knows it, too. How else can you explain his walking out on a post game presser? He's been those situations before where he's had to face the music after some tough losses. But this was different. This wasn't the eternally optimistic, win forever, gum chewing Pete. He had this colorless, blank look on his face, like he was seeing his life flash before him, as if someone told him that he had been diagnosed with an incurable disease and he had just months to live.

Yes, we've been moderately successful since that SB loss in 2015. We rattled off a couple of 10 win seasons, a divisional championship, and multiple playoff appearances, missing the post season just once, by a chip shot FG, and there were some very justifiable reasons to think that we were on the cusp of another Super Bowl appearance, that we were just a player or two away from returning to our glory days of those 3 literally awesome years. We rationalized our lack of recent success by blaming it on our coordinators, throwing 3 of them into the volcano in hope of appeasing the great football God.

Despite the tweak here and there, the changes in the coaching staff, things never got better. Bad trades and over reaches in the draft from previous seasons contributed to an overall decline of talent on the roster. The downward trend started to accelerate. Pete pushed all of his chips to the center of the table by burning 2-#1 picks and a #4 for a safety. It didn't work. The 2020 season, while on paper looking like a contender as we finished 12-4 and NFC West champs, it turned out to be a house of cards, culminating in an embarrassing loss to a division rival whose starting quarterback had a broken finger on is throwing hand and was unceremoniously dumped in the offseason. Our franchise quarterback openly expressed his displeasure at our situation, and rumors of a trade started to circulate.

But we were out of ammo. Pete walked into last year's draft with just 3 picks because he had spent them on rental players in what the clarity of 20/20 hindsight has revealed was a false illusion, like a thirsty prospector seeing a shimmering lake just a few more steps away. And of course, we didn't have a first-round pick that we might have been able to use to get a real difference maker.

Now the chickens have come home to roost. We've reached the bottom of the hill, 3-7 and out of the playoff hunt before Turkey Day. Reveling in the glory of what is with each passing day becoming a more and more distant past isn't a satisfactory existence for many of us diehard fans. We're ready for a change, and not just another tweak here or there.

[Hawktawk]

Our franchise QB was the worst player on the field in that debacle vs the Rams in the WC, That was with Donald out much of the game. After a lackluster second half of last season that was the one that really began to raise questions in my mind about whether Russ was in a slump or in decline. I said before the season Russ was the biggest question mark based on that second half, that game and then the uncharacteristic and frankly weird comments about getting hit too much, hinting at wanting a trade to the point of floating suitors.
I'm getting closer to having my answer and its not a good conclusion. Making any long term moves as an organization using keeping Russ happy as the primary motivation is not smart at this point IMO. Don't beat a dead horse but betting on one is even worse.

[NorthHawk]

I agree with pretty much all of what RD said and definitely the sentiment.
Regarding Russ this year, I don't know what it is that's causing some problems.
The most recent games I can put down to rust as he's never missed so much time without live action before and it's hard to deal with it if you've never experienced it.
If it doesn't improve over the last half of the year, maybe you are right.
But our Offensive woes all come down to the Offensive Line and game planning. We've had 3 different OC's but the same Offense. The only constant is Pete and it's
no wonder Russ indicated he wanted out. It might be that he's just tired of the system and just isn't mentally into it any more. Most people can push through something
they don't really like if it means success, but doing something you don't like and also fail is another story.
Unfortunately I think Russ is done with Pete ball. And one of them will go after this year.

[RiverDog]

I agree with pretty much all of what RD said and definitely the sentiment. Regarding Russ this year, I don't know what it is that's causing some problems. The most recent games I can put down to rust as he's never missed so much time without live action before and it's hard to deal with it if you've never experienced it.

If it doesn't improve over the last half of the year, maybe you are right. But our Offensive woes all come down to the Offensive Line and game planning. We've had 3 different OC's but the same Offense. The only constant is Pete and it's no wonder Russ indicated he wanted out. It might be that he's just tired of the system and just isn't mentally into it any more. Most people can push through something they don't really like if it means success, but doing something you don't like and also fail is another story.

Unfortunately, I think Russ is done with Pete ball. And one of them will go after this year.

Nailed it!

No matter whose side you take, the marriage between Pete and Russell is definitely on the rocks and heading for divorce court. But while I agree that it's likely that one of them will go, I'm not so certain that either of them will be here in 2022. It will be an interesting offseason.

[Uppercut]

Make Wilson a player/coach and see how it goes!

Not so well is my guess

[Hawktawk]

I’m tellin ya. Russ is more a part of the problem than people blinded by their love for #3 realize . Cleveland has been mentioned as a potential landing spot for Russ so I did a little research . Russ was up and down other than Indy , definitely terrible in the playoff game . But mayfield is getting booed off the field the last few weeks for poor play even though the team is 2-1 last 3 games and he had a monster game vs Cincy .
So I compared their last 3 starts . Russ 0-3 with 1 touchdown pass vs the Rams ALMOST 2 MONTHS AGO!!!!! . To be fair he got hurt but had put up 7 points in 3 quarters and 15 yards in the third quarter . As we know Geno put up 10 to make it close . Mayfield has 4 TDs and 3 picks in the last 3 and I loved his response to the boo birds . “ they are probably the same people that won’t shut up when we’re on offense so we can hear the signals and get something done so I really don’t care . I think Mayfield is as Cleveland as it gets . He’s genuine , not phony . He walked off the field instead of greeting teammates after the win vs Detroit . He said “ I’m going to be angry when I do things that make it hard on us”. He had thrown 2 picks in the game but also a TD pass… if anyone should appreciate a guy playing with a labrum tear in his non throwing arm and an ankle . He’s Russ tough .

[Vegaseahawk]

After witnessing today's collapse, I felt moved to bump this post from the week 11 loss to Az. Other than that 1st TD pass to DK, several of Russ' passes were completely inaccurate. He is really sucking. That was a colossal meltdown not so much in total points, but in the ineptitude of the whole team in the 2nd half. Rashad Penny excepted.

[NorthHawk]

We are about as good as our record indicates.

[Vegaseahawk]

We are about as good as our record indicates.

Ahh, a direct quote from Bill Parcells.

[Hawktawk]

One of the worst losses ever . Third time in 2 months Russ has been outplayed by a backup . This was the third string guy by the way . I’ll give the defense a bit of a break after once again being unable to do anything in the passing game . With 1 minute left in the game we had 26 passing yards in the second half …….it’s so over

[c_hawkbob]

Well i haven't seen us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like that for some time.

[RiverDog]

One of the worst losses ever . Third time in 2 months Russ has been outplayed by a backup . This was the third string guy by the way . I’ll give the defense a bit of a break after once again being unable to do anything in the passing game . With 1 minute left in the game we had 26 passing yards in the second half …….it’s so over

I wouldn't call it one of our worst losses ever. IMO SB 48 was our worst loss ever. These were two 5-10 teams fighting over who has the ugliest stepsister.

[obiken]

This loss was on the defense, and the defense played pretty well.

[RiverDog]

This loss was on the defense, and the defense played pretty well.

Both sides of the ball needs to take the blame, my friend.

In the 2nd half, we were 0-4 on 3rd/4th down and our longest drive was 5 plays. Russell took a red zone sack on 3rd and 5 that put our FG kicker on the spot turning a chip shot attempt into a 39 yarder in horrible weather conditions then flopped when all we needed was a FG to win.

[Hawktawk]

Both sides of the ball needs to take the blame, my friend.

In the 2nd half, we were 0-4 on 3rd/4th down and our longest drive was 5 plays. Russell took a red zone sack on 3rd and 5 that put our FG kicker on the spot turning a chip shot attempt into a 39 yarder in horrible weather conditions then flopped when all we needed was a FG to win.

We were actually 0-5 on our last 5 3rd downs of the game including right before the half when Dee Eskridge saved a sure interception to set up a FG or it would have been even worse. I'm not even gonna say its on the offense. The line was awesome, has been for a couple weeks. The bust Penney went off again(good lord why cant we hit play action off of that?) Other than DK dropping a bad low but NFL catchable ball the receivers were fine, getting open. Russ could not throw the ball for most of the second half and they weren't near misses. Yeah the kicker missed but that's more reason for Wilson to extricate his head on the 13 yard sack and it didn't happen.
Team loss? I suppose. The defense held the Rams to 20 on Tuesday and came out here on 4 days rest and played well enough to win if we dont shart the bed the entire second half but in the end they are human. Kicker? definitely. ST was tough. Dixon has been heroic but utterly wasted on the team and it sure would have been nice to have a few yards off the goal line but Oh no predictable 3 and out. It just comes back to the offense and the 35 million dollar man.

[TriCitySam]

We are definitely getting outcoached....but how to explain Russell completely outclassed by a career backup? McCoy looked like Brady in his prime out there. Did he come back too soon? If it's not the finger, then is it rust, and if so, does that mean he shouldn't have started the last 2 games?

How does Russ' poor play mean bad coaching? How about just poor QB play? And if your Pete, there's no reason to believe Geno is an improvement.

[Hawktawk]

How does Russ' poor play mean bad coaching? How about just poor QB play? And if your Pete, there's no reason to believe Geno is an improvement.

Geno averaged 20 PPG even with a 10 point stinker in the rain vs the Saints with 2 missed field goals that was 10 more than Brady put on them, threw 5 TD passes and rushed for another TD, put up 700 passing yards. 2 turnovers, 1 pick when Lock slipped was hit by a defender and tripped and a strip sack by Watt, one of 5 times Watt sacked him in the game. Both losses we got to overtime.

I've heard PC say several times now how well Geno played after not playing in years, how great his game was against the Jags, blah blah blah. He and now Wilson talking about how bad the hand was kind of sounds like making excuses for a bad decision to come back when he did.

Should he pull a healthy Wilson for Geno or any backup no matter how bad a day hes having? No of course not, not at this stage of his career. Maybe pretty soon at this rate. When your starter cant complete more than 50% of his passes, hands off with his left hand out of the shotgun every snap for weeks, gets shut out in his first start back and plays like absolute crap for 3 games and now 2 more to be 2-5 since his return? Yes I think he knows Geno gave him a better chance but he rolled the dice on Russ overcoming it. PC is being a bad coach for letting Russ walk on him , publicly disagree with the coach on one of the stupidest retarded sacks I've ever seen and its not unusual. It was bad coaching to put him on the field with green bay where he cant win healthy. For sure. Its not knowable if it would have been a different result had Russ takin more time but it couldn't have been worse.

[Hawktawk]

My answer is no we aren’t . 6 weeks ago I thought so but things have changed .

We had horrible injuries in the secondary but it revealed great depth .
Barton played great and his eyes look like psycho killer .
The D line rotation got good pressure , excellent at times .
The line with backups up and down it played pretty well.
So did Russ for the most part. Imo the biggest change is a home run hitter in the backfield . It scares the defense. It fires up a line to run . I saw old ass Duane Brown 15 and 20 yards downfield hitting people . Our offense was making such a farce of the game Sunday they spotted 14 to AZ and still scored 38. I’d bet we were the #1 scoring offense last 2 . Is it real ? Dunno , just like Penney . But it’s not nearly as bad as I thought a month ago or even 3 weeks . I’m cool with 1 more roundup . Get a new kicker .

[NorthHawk]

You can't use 3 or 4 games to say things are better than our record would indicate.
We simply are out talented on a frequent basis against the better teams and regularly out coached on the field.
We can't seem to adjust during games and rarely impose our will across the LoS.

While we may be slightly better than 5 weeks ago, we are no where near where we need to be to legitimately challenge for a deep run into the playoffs.

[c_hawkbob]

But you have no problem using one losing season to toss out a decade of success.

We ain't the powerhouse we were in 13, but we ain't near as bad as our record this year.

[NorthHawk]

But you have no problem using one losing season to toss out a decade of success.

We ain't the powerhouse we were in 13, but we ain't near as bad as our record this year.

We were Russell Wilson away from losing seasons the last few years.
We’re simply not a good team capable of progressing beyond making the playoffs even with
Wilson and haven’t been good for at least 4 years. The trend is either static or downward, but
not getting better.

[c_hawkbob]

With a healthy Wilson and our O-line finally being allowed to jell we are only a consistent performer at RB away from being a contender again.

I don't ascribe to your (and others here) assessment that we're Only as good as our record says we are when it says we are bad. When we're 12-4 our record is an illusion but at 7-10 it's accurate...

[Hawktawk]

With a healthy Wilson and our O-line finally being allowed to jell we are only a consistent performer at RB away from being a contender again.

I don't ascribe to your (and others here) assessment that we're Only as good as our record says we are when it says we are bad. When we're 12-4 our record is an illusion but at 7-10 it's accurate...

We opened the year with a nice win over a team that wound up competing for a playoff spot in Indy . Lost in overtime to the AFC home field team after holding a 2 TD lead in the 4th quarter . Had a chance to win late vs Rams both games . One with a backup. Lost in overtime to Pittsburgh with a backup . By 3 to a Saints team with a filthy defense still playing their starting Qb , with our backup . Held GB to 17 but QB should have been in street clothes . Lost by 2 to WFT and AZ by 10
most of the same reasons . Swept 9ers who are playing Dallas in the WC and that’s the game Penney began to have a serous impact . Blew up vs the Texans who won their next 2 games after the road rash we gave them. Rams was close all night , bad game by Russ , least effective run game of the final 6. Chicago is on meyers and Wilson . Few QBs in the league would have wasted the game Penney put in . Last 2 were beautiful . We could make the same argument every year about losing close ones vs winning them. But we had all 3 units functioning far better at the end of this season than last .

[tarlhawk]

We were Russell Wilson away from losing seasons the last few years.
We’re simply not a good team capable of progressing beyond making the playoffs even with
Wilson and haven’t been good for at least 4 years. The trend is either static or downward, but
not getting better.

Always touting the individual and never the TEAM...that's what an elite QB does...he inspires/helps elevate those around him to make comebacks or finish close wins...no single player takes the place of a team's efforts to reach the playoffs or have success from week to week...an inspired team can win against teams with better core talent as you like to dredge up. You won't admit the existing impediments that winning year after year incurs...you just pass it off with rare examples of "other teams...that sometimes do" ...so go root for those teams and stop pretending you're just a realistic fan...it gets old.

[TriCitySam]

We were Russell Wilson away from losing seasons the last few years.
We’re simply not a good team capable of progressing beyond making the playoffs even with
Wilson and haven’t been good for at least 4 years. The trend is either static or downward, but
not getting better.

Welcome to the NFL. EVERY winning team is a QB away from being a loser and vice versa. Broncos GM: "Everyone wants to blame coaching. We've had 5 head coaches in 9 years, so something's not working". Yup - you don't have a QB. You won with Elway and you won with Payton, but otherwise - you haven't. Teams that win with an average QB are extremely rare and don't sustain. Even with a good QB, as I stated in another post: it's built to be a 50/50 league.

I've been critical of some of our drafts - while hearing them say the young guys will develop. Guess what? They know more than us. The '20 draft? Brooks and Taylor are very good, and then we got Lewis (kinda took a step back, but has potenital) and were seeing young guys like Parkinson, DJ Dallas, Alton Robinson and Swain produce - they're rookies and have upside. '19 wasn't bad either: DK, Blair, Barton, etc. The young core is starting to look pretty good, and I feel the same about '18 with Penny now showing some stuff. Everybody misses, and so do we. But, it's not been bad.

[I-5]

Welcome to the NFL. EVERY winning team is a QB away from being a loser and vice versa. Broncos GM: "Everyone wants to blame coaching. We've had 5 head coaches in 9 years, so something's not working". Yup - you don't have a QB. You won with Elway and you won with Payton, but otherwise - you haven't. Teams that win with an average QB are extremely rare and don't sustain. Even with a good QB, as I stated in another post: it's built to be a 50/50 league.

I've been critical of some of our drafts - while hearing them say the young guys will develop. Guess what? They know more than us. The '20 draft? Brooks and Taylor are very good, and then we got Lewis (kinda took a step back, but has potenital) and were seeing young guys like Parkinson, DJ Dallas, Alton Robinson and Swain produce - they're rookies and have upside. '19 wasn't bad either: DK, Blair, Barton, etc. The young core is starting to look pretty good, and I feel the same about '18 with Penny now showing some stuff. Everybody misses, and so do we. But, it's not been bad.

I pretty much agree with you...football is one of the only sports where if you have a great player at 1 position (QB), you have a chance to at least be competitive. I think Russell was selfish to come back so soon, and I'm convinced it cost us 2 games that we would have had a better chance with a healthy Smith...but he looks closer to the Russ we know now.

Pete has a pretty good argument that the last few drafts have been pretty good considering how many are playing now. He's got some good young players now at RB, DE, LB, WR....what he hasn't shown is putting more energy and draft capital towards the offensive line. The current line needs upgrading esp with an aging Duane Brown, but they are playing their best ball of the year now, too. Pocic can either start next year or be a good backup.

[Aseahawkfan]

I pretty much agree with you...football is one of the only sports where if you have a great player at 1 position (QB), you have a chance to at least be competitive. I think Russell was selfish to come back so soon, and I'm convinced it cost us 2 games that we would have had a better chance with a healthy Smith...but he looks closer to the Russ we know now.

Pete has a pretty good argument that the last few drafts have been pretty good considering how many are playing now. He's got some good young players now at RB, DE, LB, WR....what he hasn't shown is putting more energy and draft capital towards the offensive line. The current line needs upgrading esp with an aging Duane Brown, but they are playing their best ball of the year now, too. Pocic can either start next year or be a good backup.

Selfish? It's pretty much an expected part of football culture to come back as soon as possible. Russell is one of the farthest people from selfish in the NFL. He came back to help the team, not for himself. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Great players trying to come back as fast as possible to help the team is what great players do and what the league expects of them.

It's like some of you don't even follow the league and the football culture norms when you make statements like this. How exactly does Russ know the right time to come back when the right to come back is always, "as soon as possible."

[Hawktawk]

I think Russell was selfish to come back so soon, and I'm convinced it cost us 2 games that we would have had a better chance with a healthy Smith...but he looks closer to the Russ we know now.



Selfish? It's pretty much an expected part of football culture to come back as soon as possible. Russell is one of the farthest people from selfish in the NFL. He came back to help the team, not for himself. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Great players trying to come back as fast as possible to help the team is what great players do and what the league expects of them.

It's like some of you don't even follow the league and the football culture norms when you make statements like this. How exactly does Russ know the right time to come back when the right to come back is always, "as soon as possible."

Lamar Jackson has an MVP and Harbaugh sat him the last 5 games with an ankle injury as Hundley crapped out down the stretch. Not letting his franchise guy play hurt. I recall Russ in 2016 playing with high ankle sprain suffered vs Suh and Miami and a sprained MCL courtesy of the 9ers. I think he had a pectoral strain on his right side as well . He didn't play real well but we stayed alive and got to the playoffs. We squeaked by Detroit in the WC and got punked by Atl as Russ had a bad game. But the backup was Trevon Boykin with zero NFL experience that year.

This was different. From convincing PC to put him on the field to hand off on 3rd and 10 with a broken finger vs the Rams and send him back out for another 3 and out when it was clear he couldn't throw the ball at all was selfish and foolish . In a game that wound up close late it was the beginning of a blunder by Carroll that probably cost him the postseason. To be fair they didn't know Geno would come out and put up 140 yards and 10 points in the 4th quarter vs LA but in hindsight another possession with a guy who could throw the ball might have made things way different . I also concede we have no idea what another quarter vs the Rams with healthy Russ might have looked like . He used to be money in the 4th quarter. And obviously what would have happened had he not been injured and played all the games Geno played and been completely healthy . I know we make the Rams look better than they are.

But from Russel's day one proclamation he would be back early , the choreographed media releases" no more pin time to win" complete with a picture of a red swollen finger 3 weeks before my own orthopedic surgeon said it should be removed total Russel BS.
Geno had just played a near perfect Peteball game , 200 yards, 2 passing TDs and a rushing TD , 20-24 no turnovers. Pete said the following Monday morning it would be "really close" if Russ would make it back for the Pack . Russ announced he was ready on Tuesday. Then he hangs up a goose egg in GB with ball sailing all over the place, Russ in shotgun all night handing off with his left hand only as the defense fought their ass off. It was about Russell superman narrative and feeling like most NFL starters you dont anyone else taking your snaps no matter who he was. It was pure selfishness . Nobody that isn't blinded by their fandom sees it. I blame Carroll. He hurt his team and put Russes long term health in jeopardy.

[tarlhawk]

Selfish? It's pretty much an expected part of football culture to come back as soon as possible. Russell is one of the farthest people from selfish in the NFL. He came back to help the team, not for himself. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Agree with your line of logic. Selfish is too strong of a word...Russell always feels that he is the best option for winning...Green Bay at their home during winter is a disadvantage to whoever sees their team on their schedule. My own feeling is if the team doctors clear him for play then you put him in...the limit that I saw was to the running game...not being able to lineup under center for handoffs...can catch your feature back flat footed if the opponent gets in your backfield. As a coach you want your QB who has never missed entire games before to get comfortable once again in game situations...back-ups know if doctors clear a key starter then his services return to standby. The team doctors are under no obligation to put a player at risk...he got their green light. Pete wouldn't allow him to go in against the advice of the team's doctors. It took awhile for him to readjust but how much was rust...how much was injury related? Perhaps other things were shaking his confidence

[trents]

Team doctors can be pressured like anyone else,especially with something like a finger injury which is not going to be life threatening or have the potential for ending a career. It wasn't his head or his knee or his ankle. I place this one squarely on Pete's shoulders for not sitting Russ when it was apparent he could not grip the ball to hand it off normally even. And some of those missed throws were not rust.

[tarlhawk]

Team doctors can be pressured like anyone else,especially with something like a finger injury which is not going to be life threatening or have the potential for ending a career. It wasn't his head or his knee or his ankle. I place this one squarely on Pete's shoulders for not sitting Russ when it was apparent he could not grip the ball to hand it off normally even. And some of those missed throws were not rust.

Are you speculating or actually know the reason he wasn't allowed to line-up under center was because he couldn't grip?...or as a precautionary condition to allow him to play?

[trents]

I said nothing about Russ not lining up under center.

[Aseahawkfan]

Lamar Jackson has an MVP and Harbaugh sat him the last 5 games with an ankle injury as Hundley crapped out down the stretch. Not letting his franchise guy play hurt. I recall Russ in 2016 playing with high ankle sprain suffered vs Suh and Miami and a sprained MCL courtesy of the 9ers. I think he had a pectoral strain on his right side as well . He didn't play real well but we stayed alive and got to the playoffs. We squeaked by Detroit in the WC and got punked by Atl as Russ had a bad game. But the backup was Trevon Boykin with zero NFL experience that year.

This was different. From convincing PC to put him on the field to hand off on 3rd and 10 with a broken finger vs the Rams and send him back out for another 3 and out when it was clear he couldn't throw the ball at all was selfish and foolish . In a game that wound up close late it was the beginning of a blunder by Carroll that probably cost him the postseason. To be fair they didn't know Geno would come out and put up 140 yards and 10 points in the 4th quarter vs LA but in hindsight another possession with a guy who could throw the ball might have made things way different . I also concede we have no idea what another quarter vs the Rams with healthy Russ might have looked like . He used to be money in the 4th quarter. And obviously what would have happened had he not been injured and played all the games Geno played and been completely healthy . I know we make the Rams look better than they are.

But from Russel's day one proclamation he would be back early , the choreographed media releases" no more pin time to win" complete with a picture of a red swollen finger 3 weeks before my own orthopedic surgeon said it should be removed total Russel BS.
Geno had just played a near perfect Peteball game , 200 yards, 2 passing TDs and a rushing TD , 20-24 no turnovers. Pete said the following Monday morning it would be "really close" if Russ would make it back for the Pack . Russ announced he was ready on Tuesday. Then he hangs up a goose egg in GB with ball sailing all over the place, Russ in shotgun all night handing off with his left hand only as the defense fought their ass off. It was about Russell superman narrative and feeling like most NFL starters you dont anyone else taking your snaps no matter who he was. It was pure selfishness . Nobody that isn't blinded by their fandom sees it. I blame Carroll. He hurt his team and put Russes long term health in jeopardy.

Bottom line is Russ cannot force his way on the field. Doctors have to ok it. Coach has to look at him in practice and ok it. Russ doesn't get to just to go, "I'm back. Screw you all. I do what I want."

That's just ridiculous. I have no idea why there is this sudden contingent of Seahawks fans claiming Russ is selfish or a diva or the problem with the team. It's just the height of total stupidity.

Russ is a guy who has done nothing but prepare every season. Didn't miss a game until this year. Worked with his receivers in the offseason. Doesn't get involved in offseason scandals. And has given his all to help this team win.

And people just keep on making stuff up about him in the negative. What hell is this even about?

Russ is some kind of diva demanding to leave or a tyrant forcing his way on the field or what next? It seems he can't win some Seattle fans right now because they're just sure they're right based on some comment from an interview or what not. Nearly a decade of dedication to the Seahawks, but suddenly he's the problem.

What a bunch of BS. There's nothing else to call it. It's just utter rubbish.

[I-5]

Agree with your line of logic. Selfish is too strong of a word...Russell always feels that he is the best option for winning...Green Bay at their home during winter is a disadvantage to whoever sees their team on their schedule. My own feeling is if the team doctors clear him for play then you put him in...the limit that I saw was to the running game...not being able to lineup under center for handoffs...can catch your feature back flat footed if the opponent gets in your backfield. As a coach you want your QB who has never missed entire games before to get comfortable once again in game situations...back-ups know if doctors clear a key starter then his services return to standby. The team doctors are under no obligation to put a player at risk...he got their green light. Pete wouldn't allow him to go in against the advice of the team's doctors. It took awhile for him to readjust but how much was rust...how much was injury related? Perhaps other things were shaking his confidence

I know 'selfish' is a harsh word, but I used it because although we had no way of knowing how much his injured 'not yet healed' finger would affect his throws, Russ himself certainly knew how the ball was affected by his injured finger - and the results are on film for all to see. It wasn't just that his usual accuracy was missing, but that a few of the balls just sailed away, something that we've never seen from him before - and also the first goose egg of his career. It was obvious by the second half that it was more than rust. He started looking like the Russ we know 3 weeks later vs SF (which ironically, is about the time his doctors had said we should expect him back). So yeah, selfish is a harsh word, but he can't be surprised with the results if his finger was affecting him. That's my opinion.

[RiverDog]

Bottom line is Russ cannot force his way on the field. Doctors have to ok it. Coach has to look at him in practice and ok it. Russ doesn't get to just to go, "I'm back. Screw you all. I do what I want."

Just like Aaron Rodgers is to the Packers, Russell is our team's 500 lb. gorilla. He eats, sleeps, and chits wherever the hell he wants. Pete even admits it, saying that he wouldn't be here if not for Russell Wilson. The whole thing with Russell factoring into Pete's future as our coach proves it.

When I'm examined by a doctor for an illness or injury, one of the first things he/she wants to know is for me to assess for them how much it hurts. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no pain at all and 10 being I feel like I'm going to die, tell me what level of pain you're experiencing. They do not have any other way to measure pain. Add into that the gorilla factor and no doctor is going to tell Russell that he's not well enough to play. Same thing with the coach. Why do you think the Packers didn't make Rodgers wear a mask in his news conferences or fly separately to road games? Because the coach is afraid to buck up and face down his franchise quarterback. If Russell tells Pete that his finger isn't affecting his throwing, who is he to tell him that it is?

We can argue about whether an 80% Russell gave us a better chance to win vs a 100% Geno or if Russell (for example, if limiting the playbook to shotgun only formations was a hinderance or not vs. Geno under center, or if Russell genuinely thought he was helping or hurting the team by playing, but the decision to return early was almost entirely his own. 90% of the coaches in the league would bow down to a franchise QB's wishes.

[Hawktawk]

Bottom line is Russ cannot force his way on the field. Doctors have to ok it. Coach has to look at him in practice and ok it. Russ doesn't get to just to go, "I'm back. Screw you all. I do what I want.

Just like Aaron Rodgers is to the Packers, Russell is our team's 500 lb. gorilla. He eats, sleeps, and chits wherever the hell he wants. Pete even admits it, saying that he wouldn't be here if not for Russell Wilson. The whole thing with Russell factoring into Pete's future as our coach proves it.

When I'm examined by a doctor for an illness or injury, one of the first things he/she wants to know is for me to assess for them how much it hurts. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being no pain at all and 10 being I feel like I'm going to die, tell me what level of pain you're experiencing. They do not have any other way to measure pain. Add into that the gorilla factor and no doctor is going to tell Russell that he's not well enough to play. Same thing with the coach. Why do you think the Packers didn't make Rodgers wear a mask in his news conferences or fly separately to road games? Because the coach is afraid to buck up and face down his franchise quarterback. If Russell tells Pete that his finger isn't affecting his throwing, who is he to tell him that it is?

We can argue about whether an 80% Russell gave us a better chance to win vs a 100% Geno or if Russell (for example, if limiting the playbook to shotgun only formations was a hinderance or not vs. Geno under center, or if Russell genuinely thought he was helping or hurting the team by playing, but the decision to return early was almost entirely his own. 90% of the coaches in the league would bow down to a franchise QB's wishes.

The first people to announce Russ was ready were he and his orthopedic surgeon . His surgeon gave a gushing review of his amazing rehab , a terrible injury but good as new , guy was such a workhorse . Russ himself confirmed his rehab was “18 or 19 hours a day “ even the announcers who played the game and rehabbed laughed at that .

Russ the tough guy , Russ the fast healer .I have heard Carroll repeat over and over as Russ lost 5 of 7 coming back “ he says he’s ready , we didn’t know what to expect with him coming back . It’s been tough for him “ Geno was ready , he had played well, played great his last game “ . Some version of that statement over and over in conversations with Salk .

PC let himself get run over and once you put Russ in you don’t ever pull Russ .

It’s ok to say Russ is our greatest Qb ever who has been a very important part of 10 years of winning . It’s all true .
It’s also true what RD says here .


He’s become an attention seeking celebrity craving media focus . You can have your emotions about how our beloved Russ would never hurt the team . We have video evidence he did for several games . He’s still not 100% as his basically pick 6 shows and Carroll admitted after his 7th!!!!! game back it was the first time he had been able to do his normal pregame workout .

Then all the come to Jesus admissions about “ oh yeah it was so tough , really hard “ by both PC and Russ after the season was ruined . What happened to good as new 2 months ago ? No question he’s far better now which is good . But it’s delusional to say he returned thinking it would actually improve the team . He was in New York yesterday , not sure the business but it was on his FB page .

[Hawktawk]

I listened to Paul Moyer on Wyman and Dave . His analysis of the team is pretty optimistic . He said there’s 13 or 14 players with less than 4 years of experience that are gonna be good . He liked our D line play , was OK on Barton but said he Isn’t as strong separating from blockers . His unsung improved player was Phil Haynes who was the highest graded guard on the team. He said he really liked Penney but almost every big run went through Phil Haynes the last couple . He’s been critical of Russ holding the ball like the strip sack . Said it hurts the grade on the line “ it doesn’t matter how many times you Pat it it isn’t gonna burp “”. You have to spin in with an unblocked rusher or throw it out of bounds . Still he was impressed with most of Russels play down the stretch . Sound like Moyer is in the walk it back camp
.

[RiverDog]

I listened to Paul Moyer on Wyman and Dave . His analysis of the team is pretty optimistic . He said there’s 13 or 14 players with less than 4 years of experience that are gonna be good . He liked our D line play , was OK on Barton but said he Isn’t as strong separating from blockers . His unsung improved player was Phil Haynes who was the highest graded guard on the team. He said he really liked Penney but almost every big run went through Phil Haynes the last couple . He’s been critical of Russ holding the ball like the strip sack . Said it hurts the grade on the line “ it doesn’t matter how many times you Pat it it isn’t gonna burp “”. You have to spin in with an unblocked rusher or throw it out of bounds . Still he was impressed with most of Russels play down the stretch . Sound like Moyer is in the walk it back camp
.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason with Bobby Wagner, if we feel good enough to turn the defense over to Barton.

Suddenly, though, we have some question marks at both safety positions. Diggs' injury is a potential career ender and who knows if Adams is going to be able to play after damaging the same shoulder twice.