Trade Metcalf

[RiverDog]

We'll, great ones are hard to find, but as we've experienced, you can be very successful with a good possession WR as well...and of course our long forgotten tight ends. An improved OL not just improves our run pass numbers , but our D. Without it, we've averaged 56 plays a game to out opponents 72. Big impact on our O and D.

Agreed about the OL. With the possible exception of a LT, it's never been a big priority with Pete. They demonstrated that philosophy in this past draft, taking a WR to supplement an already strong WR group vs. a good center of which we had a need and where there were a couple available. I'd much rather dedicate resources to finding the eventual replacement for Duane Brown than I would throw mega millions at Metcalf. Pete traded away a Pro Bowl center without an heir apparent on the roster and a #1 pick for a tight end that didn't fit with our run first offense.

[TriCitySam]

They tried early on using high picks: Okung, Mofitt, Carpenter. Then later Britt. But outside of Okung haven't fared well. It's hard for most teams, but we should have hunted down some good FA's.

[NorthHawk]

Outside of top 10 picks on the OL, we haven't seen very many good OL drafted by this regime. Lewis might be good, but other teams regularly find good OL
throughout the draft. Our FO just can't seem to identify them and if they do they under prioritize the need so other teams scoop them before we pick. Trading
down used to be a common occurrence with JS, but he also passed by some very good OL talent in doing so and the OL has never really be a strength. I think
it's a bit telling that Pete had to call Ogeron to ask about Lewis before making the pick and that they clearly hadn't done their homework on a position of need.

[Hawktawk]

One of Genos biggest drawbacks has been taking sacks . It’s at a time like this that having a good line could really have helped . And of course Russ has been sacked more than anyone . It’s a broken record . Last year they were mid pack sand it’s the best they had been since the starters the year we won the super bowl

[Hawktawk]

I just read an account of a model from onlyfans who bombed DK for shopping for a foursome immediately after a game in which he made one play and spent the rest of the night playing grab ass with Lattimore . Maybe there’s a little more validity to your position RD. This isn’t just immature . This is a guy into the lifestyle more than winning obviously .

[RiverDog]

I just read an account of a model from onlyfans who bombed DK for shopping for a foursome immediately after a game in which he made one play and spent the rest of the night playing grab ass with Lattimore . Maybe there’s a little more validity to your position RD. This isn’t just immature . This is a guy into the lifestyle more than winning obviously .

One of the posters on the other forum I frequent claims that Metcalf sent a sexually explicit text to a friend of his following the loss to the Saints. I personally don't put much weight in these rumors, but it does seem to fit a narrative about him that's beginning to emerge.

But that's not why I want to trade him. I simply don't think it wise to be paying over 25% of our salary cap to two players when the rest of the cupboard is bare and with few draft picks to replenish it. Unless we want to embark on a total rebuild, in which case it wouldn't make sense to keep Metcalf anyway, we're going to need to be active in the free agent market or make some sort of a trade that will net us more draft picks.

Wide receivers just aren't that critical to a team. Half the time they aren't even involved in the play and spend most of their time just running up the field then back to the huddle. It's not like an offensive lineman that has to put out maximum effort on virtually every play. Metcalf is a luxury, not a necessity.

[NorthHawk]

That sounds great, RD but if the FO can't identify good OL or want to draft them then the team is left with a lesser WR group and still an
underachieving OL. The problem goes deeper than just two players who get paid, it's an inability to identify value in the draft and FA.

[RiverDog]

That sounds great, RD but if the FO can't identify good OL or want to draft them then the team is left with a lesser WR group and still an
underachieving OL. The problem goes deeper than just two players who get paid, it's an inability to identify value in the draft and FA.

I didn't say that if we trade Metcalf, all of our problems are solved. But without some type of assets, like draft picks or the ability to bring in FA players, there isn't much hope for improvement.

Part of our inability to identify good offensive linemen had to do with the presence of Tom Cable and how much influence Pete gave him. He's no longer there, which might explain why we finally drafted a decent OL when we selected Damien Lewis.

I just took a peek at the top ranked receivers in terms of yardage and receptions. Cooper Kupp is leading the way in both categories with 809 yards on 56 catches while the highest paid WR, DeAndre Hopkins of the Cards, is ranked 20th in yardage and 24th in receptions even though he's played in at least one more game than all of those ranked ahead of him. I just don't see why we have to have a top 5 receiver when we have so many other holes to fill.

[NorthHawk]

As usual stats don’t paint the whole picture. With an Offensive HC and a good OL, he may be at the top of your list.
As well, if we traded him we would then be looking for a replacement.
Keep the good players we have and start drafting better is the answer.

[Hawktawk]

I haven’t dived into the Saints game to see what happened yet as I have all other losses. I want to see what happened to DK beyond totally getting into jawing and fighting Lattimore all night after saying he wouldn’t . Was Geno missing him? WS he lazy ? Were there not enough passes called ? All of the above ? I’m gonna try to watch it today with some antacid

[Hawktawk]

Well never mind we didn’t record it . Just hard to understand how the connection could be that good with a big horse that’s open when he’s covered and he catches one more ball but we are handing off 8 times in a row . 22 pass attempts is not much nor is 12 completions but he did have the TD and didn’t turn it over . Our future HOF went 11-29 with a pick 6 in the wild card for some perspective . We couldn’t keep him standing up with Donald out

We’re not good .

[RiverDog]

As usual stats don’t paint the whole picture. With an Offensive HC and a good OL, he may be at the top of your list.

You're right, stats don't paint the whole picture. But they do a very good job of illustrating a point that I'm trying to make. The fact is that DeAndre Hopkins, the highest paid WR in the league, has done very little to contribute to the success of his team relative to how much they're paying him. Cooper Kupp, on the other hand, has been a huge component in the Rams success as evidenced by his league leading totals in receiving yards and receptions. Whether you want to use facts or the eye test, they are telling us the same thing.

And it's not just Hopkins. What has Odell Beckam done for the Browns? What has Amari Cooper done for the Cowboys? Has Julio Jones produced for the Titans or Keenan Allen for the Chargers? I look around at all of these high priced WR's and I simply don't see teams getting their money's worth out of them. Of the top 10 highest paid WR's, I can see just two that are producing at a rate comparable to what they're being paid: Tyreek Hill of the Chiefs and Devonte Adams of the Packers.

My point is that of all the positions, at least on offense, wide receiver is one of if not the least important position on the field relative to how much they're getting paid. I'd much rather have an All Pro left tackle or center in my lineup than an equivalently talented wide receiver. I simply feel that there are better places that we can spend our hard earned money than with a wide receiver, especially one that has demonstrated maturity problems that will only get worse after he's given a fat new contract.

As well, if we traded him we would then be looking for a replacement.

Sure, we'll have to replace him, and it would be tough, if not impossible, to find a WR that bring as much to the table as Metcalf can. But there are lots of very talented wide receivers out there that can come very close. WR's are a dime a dozen.

Keep the good players we have and start drafting better is the answer.

You can't draft better without draft picks. The Adams trade has put us in a hole, and if we're going to have a shot at a relatively short rebuild, we
re going to have to make some tough decisions and start putting capital in the bank.

Trading away 2-#1's and a #4's for an under performing safety robbed us of a good part of our future. If we're going to get better, we need to get some balls and make some tough choices. Metcalf is a luxury, like Odell Beckham.

[Hawktawk]

The adams trade has been a disaster , especially signing him. Unless he makes impact plays every game and helps us run the table he’s a bust . One could argue he’s as responsible as anyone for some of the losses with critical failures to make makeable plays at critical times

[NorthHawk]

You can't draft better without draft picks. The Adams trade has put us in a hole, and if we're going to have a shot at a relatively short rebuild, we
re going to have to make some tough decisions and start putting capital in the bank.

Trading away 2-#1's and a #4's for an under performing safety robbed us of a good part of our future. If we're going to get better, we need to get some balls and make some tough choices. Metcalf is a luxury, like Odell Beckham.

Last year we had 3 picks and that's totally unacceptable. This year we only lost the first round pick and get an extra 4th from the Jets.
Good players can be found outside of the 1st round. The Packers Center was a 6th round pick, the same year in the 6th they also selected a Guard who's their starter and 3 years ago their other Guard was selected in the 2nd and
he made the Pro Bowl last year.
Last year is done. We have to make better selections this year and in the future if we are to get better. Clearly the "shiny bauble syndrome" that Carroll has with players he trades for doesn't allow for a team to be built for the
future. Especially when giving up valuable draft picks even early and mid round picks like a 2nd for Richardson and a 3rd for Clowney. But good talent can be found all through the draft. The problem has been we haven't found
much of it lately.

[RiverDog]

You can't draft better without draft picks. The Adams trade has put us in a hole, and if we're going to have a shot at a relatively short rebuild, we
re going to have to make some tough decisions and start putting capital in the bank.

Trading away 2-#1's and a #4's for an under performing safety robbed us of a good part of our future. If we're going to get better, we need to get some balls and make some tough choices. Metcalf is a luxury, like Odell Beckham.

Good players can be found outside of the 1st round.

Of course, they can. But it's an undeniable fact that the higher selection, the greater the odds of selecting good players no matter how good or bad your appraisals are.

And it's not just high draft picks that we need or would get with a Metcalf trade. A trade would net us more total picks as well, more rolls of the dice. Plus more draft picks are just part of the trade equation. We'd also save a ton of money that can be used for free agent players or retaining other players deemed valuable to our future.

Some of JS/Pete's devaluation of early round picks can be chalked up to plain ole arrogant egotism. They think that they are so much smarter than every other organization that they don't need high draft picks, that they can find top players in the later rounds like the did with Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor. Well, that formula hasn't worked out so well over these past few years. Time to try something different.

[NorthHawk]

You don't trade away good young talent so you can acquire good young talent. That's a waste of resources.

The formula is to go back to what they did in the early years and use the picks they have properly as you stated, not deplete the roster further to get more chances.

[RiverDog]

You don't trade away good young talent so you can acquire good young talent. That's a waste of resources.

That's not how I look at it. The way I see it, we'd be trading away good young talent as a non critical position for much cheaper, good young talent at a more important position.

The formula is to go back to what they did in the early years and use the picks they have properly as you stated, not deplete the roster further to get more chances.

The roster is already depleted. The only quick way to replenish it is through making some tough choices to make up for the bad choices we've made in the past. Standing pat and not changing the paradigm is only going to continue the misery we've gone through for the past 7 seasons.

[c_hawkbob]

Sorry Riv but I'd be willing to bet a paycheck that there's not a GM in the league that would trade DK away in the 3rd year of his rookie contract. I can't believe you're even arguing this position.

[TriCitySam]

I think
it's a bit telling that Pete had to call Ogeron to ask about Lewis before making the pick and that they clearly hadn't done their homework on a position of need.

I don't think it says that they hadn't done their homework - it appears they had and were interested. But certainly because Pete knows Orgeron so well, it makes a lot of sense to make the call and get a confirmation - he would certainly be upfront with Pete if there were some unknown issues. You'd hate like hell to draft the guy and then have him say "Gee, why didn't you call me? I would have told you he's got some real issues...". Belichick calls Saban, makes sense. I blamed Cable early on, but we haven't done any better since he left...his Raider OL doesn't look so good either.

I was in on the Adams trade, and early on it looked great. He was dominant....not this year. You win in the trenches, so we need to focus on both lines. I totally get the argument on not trading Metcalf....but if it was Adams type deal....that would make me think.

[NorthHawk]

I would have thought that part of the vetting of draft candidates at positions of need would be to contact coaches
before the draft to confirm their position on their draft board especially if they know that coach quite well. It’s
part of doing the homework on players.

[RiverDog]

I just read an account of a model from onlyfans who bombed DK for shopping for a foursome immediately after a game in which he made one play and spent the rest of the night playing grab ass with Lattimore . Maybe there’s a little more validity to your position RD. This isn’t just immature . This is a guy into the lifestyle more than winning obviously .

FYI here's the article you were talking about:

In a series of videos, OnlyFans model Tori Lynn claims DK tried to get her to do a foursome hours after flaking on her.

https://brobible.com/sports/article/onl ... k-metcalf/

But that's not why I want to trade Metcalf. I'd want to trade the Pope if he were a $25M wide receiver.

[obiken]

But that's not why I want to trade Metcalf. I'd want to trade the Pope if he were a $25M wide receiver.

I know this is a semi old thread, but I want DK outta here, IF he was Julio Jones I would keep him, but He has become the Rasheed Wallace of NFL WR's River. He grabs a Face mask and he is flagged. We dont need that kind of guy on our team, he is a marked man now, its just testosterone stupidity. I dont see at this point what you can get for him anyway, maybe a 5th rounder.

[Hawktawk]

I know this is a semi old thread, but I want DK outta here, IF he was Julio Jones I would keep him, but He has become the Rasheed Wallace of NFL WR's River. He grabs a Face mask and he is flagged. We dont need that kind of guy on our team, he is a marked man now, its just testosterone stupidity. I dont see at this point what you can get for him anyway, maybe a 5th rounder.

There would be 30 GMs willing to listen to a DK trade offer. The young man is an idiot but hes a devastating weapon if the QB can get him the ball.if.....

[NorthHawk]

A team doesn't improve by letting go of their best talent, and in a couple of years $25M will be average for the top WRs.

[Hawktawk]

DK currently has 8 of the teams 15 receiving TDs and 32% of their offensive yardage. Interestingly Sunday he had only 3 catches on 8 attempts for 26 yards after going 14-18 for just under 200 yards and 3 TDS in Genos 3 starts. He dropped one pass I saw and the crosser was really a bad throw that handcuffed him but some say he should have caught it. Geno also threw him another TD in his brief appearance vs the Rams so DK caught half his TDs from Geno in 3 starts and a quarter where he has 6 starts with Russ. Either way you cant get rid of a weapon like that unless you have a plan B. I cant imagine a QB in the league that wouldnt want him.

[NorthHawk]

DK currently has 8 of the teams 15 receiving TDs and 32% of their offensive yardage. Interestingly Sunday he had only 3 catches on 8 attempts for 26 yards after going 14-18 for just under 200 yards and 3 TDS in Genos 3 starts. He dropped one pass I saw and the crosser was really a bad throw that handcuffed him but some say he should have caught it. Geno also threw him another TD in his brief appearance vs the Rams so DK caught half his TDs from Geno in 3 starts and a quarter where he has 6 starts with Russ. Either way you cant get rid of a weapon like that unless you have a plan B. I cant imagine a QB in the league that wouldnt want him.

He stretches the Defense and allows underneath routes. Something we don't regularly take advantage of for some strange reason.

[Hawktawk]

That’s been the point of a lot of people . I saw the stat line Sunday where Russ is #2 in deep outs and # 1 in deep shots downfield . But as you say the middle goes unused although it’s a staple of the McVeigh offense brought here . That’s been my eye test of Russ . He doesn’t like throwing in the middle to “ nfl open” receivers so he pulls off , scrambles around and throws deep or sidelines if he doesn’t take a sack . He’s been hesitant to throw in the middle since 49 IMO
And he’s got a big enough arm he’s been making a living on those throws . PC said as much when asked about it at his Monday presser. But the short and medium middle routes are where the 10 play drives come from, not haymakers or punts . It’s a mess .

[obiken]

That’s been the point of a lot of people . I saw the stat line Sunday where Russ is #2 in deep outs and # 1 in deep shots downfield . But as you say the middle goes unused although it’s a staple of the McVeigh offense brought here . That’s been my eye test of Russ . He doesn’t like throwing in the middle to “ nfl open” receivers so he pulls off , scrambles around and throws deep or sidelines if he doesn’t take a sack . He’s been hesitant to throw in the middle since 49 IMO
And he’s got a big enough arm he’s been making a living on those throws . PC said as much when asked about it at his Monday presser. But the short and medium middle routes are where the 10 play drives come from, not haymakers or punts . It’s a mess .

Sorry HT, I used to agree with you, but I have been drug to the River point of view on this guy. He is just another fast, arrogant, Diva WR. Paying him 25 mill a year would be a huge mistake. WR's are a dime a dozen, give me a Largent, Baldwin, or Joe Jurevicius, any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[Hawktawk]

As I’ve said he’s got 8 of our 15 TD catches and over 400 receiving yards . I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a guy with that big a body who can run a 4.3. His hands are improving . He’s got some anger management and maturity issues but he’s like 23 years old . I want to see quite a bit more of the guy before deciding to get rid of by far the most dynamic wideout we’ve ever had .

[RiverDog]

As I’ve said he’s got 8 of our 15 TD catches and over 400 receiving yards . I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a guy with that big a body who can run a 4.3. His hands are improving . He’s got some anger management and maturity issues but he’s like 23 years old . I want to see quite a bit more of the guy before deciding to get rid of by far the most dynamic wideout we’ve ever had .

Calvin Johnson, at 6'5" and 237 lbs., once ran a 4.27 40, has or shares 11 NFL records, was named to 6 consecutive Pro Bowl teams including 3 All Pro teams and was elected to the Pro Football HOF. But he was also a member of a team that went 0-16 and he played in just two playoff games, losing both, never even coming within sniffing distance of a Super Bowl.

[Aseahawkfan]

If we could trade Metcalf for a strong defensive lineman that we were able to keep, I'd probably do it. Maybe a younger left tackle that could do the job. Maybe even a high quality corner we could keep. That's about it. I don't think I would trade him for picks. He's already about as good a WR pick as you can get.

[Hawktawk]

Our defense suddenly isn’t the problem so why trade for defense ? Although a bell cow receiver is kind of wasted with Wilson . As opposed to Rodgers and Adams , Luck in the day with TY Hilton , Ryan with Julio Jones or Stafford with megatron Russ generally spreads it around . It was interesting watching DK with Geno in the Jax game because he force fed he and Lockett the ball after throwing to 10 targets a couple weeks earlier . It was DKs best game of the year . But they have to decide on Russ first . He wanted AB, OBJ, etc etc . “ we need a few more dudes “ . Would he stick around if they not only don’t bolster the receiving corps but get rid of the most lethal receiver we’ve ever had by far .

[Aseahawkfan]

Our defense suddenly isn’t the problem so why trade for defense ? Although a bell cow receiver is kind of wasted with Wilson . As opposed to Rodgers and Adams , Luck in the day with TY Hilton , Ryan with Julio Jones or Stafford with megatron Russ generally spreads it around . It was interesting watching DK with Geno in the Jax game because he force fed he and Lockett the ball after throwing to 10 targets a couple weeks earlier . It was DKs best game of the year . But they have to decide on Russ first . He wanted AB, OBJ, etc etc . “ we need a few more dudes “ . Would he stick around if they not only don’t bolster the receiving corps but get rid of the most lethal receiver we’ve ever had by far .

I do not count the defense as not a problem, sorry. They had some good games, but are hardly great. We need more defensive line help. Our sacks and pressure is terrible. This defense is nowhere near a playoff defense and needs more talent injected.

[RiverDog]

Our defense suddenly isn’t the problem so why trade for defense ? Although a bell cow receiver is kind of wasted with Wilson . As opposed to Rodgers and Adams , Luck in the day with TY Hilton , Ryan with Julio Jones or Stafford with megatron Russ generally spreads it around . It was interesting watching DK with Geno in the Jax game because he force fed he and Lockett the ball after throwing to 10 targets a couple weeks earlier . It was DKs best game of the year . But they have to decide on Russ first . He wanted AB, OBJ, etc etc . “ we need a few more dudes “ . Would he stick around if they not only don’t bolster the receiving corps but get rid of the most lethal receiver we’ve ever had by far .

I do not count the defense as not a problem, sorry. They had some good games, but are hardly great. We need more defensive line help. Our sacks and pressure is terrible. This defense is nowhere near a playoff defense and needs more talent injected.

I agree with ASF. Yes, we've had a couple of good efforts, but nevertheless, this isn't a top 5 defense, which is a prerequisite for Pete Ball to become a Super Bowl contender. To be specific, we need at least two more pass rushing DL's and more depth in the secondary.

[obiken]

Please! Our super dupe WR dropped 2 last week 3 this week its time to move off him. He dropped balls in College thats how we got him in the first place. Our most dynamic WR ever? I am not going to even touch that one.

[RiverDog]

Please! Our super dupe WR dropped 2 last week 3 this week its time to move off him. He dropped balls in College thats how we got him in the first place. Our most dynamic WR ever? I am not going to even touch that one.

Yeah, Metcalf is a younger OBJ. He's not going to be happy playing on a rebuilding team, he's going to want to be the star, the hero that wins games on 75 yard touchdown receptions.

But as I keep saying, it's not so much the person as it is the position. We need linemen, and he's the only player on our roster that can garner multiple high draft picks and/or starting players.

[Hawktawk]

Defense was really hampered by the loss of the 2 best corners and really just had no clue how to stop McCoy and Green. As for Metcalf he didn't squeeze a couple 50-50 balls in traffic. the greats almost always get those. Other than the brain his hands are always the second question. Again though, trade Metcalf for what? JS and PC have had 10 seasons with this roster to do whatever. And he is a hothead and goofball between the lines but no drama queen like OBJ killing the QB and coaches. The closest I've seen to a controversial comment regarding the QB was his praise of the ball Geno threw him on the goal line vs the Jags" I've never had a ball like that". It obviously got no traction and drew almost no mention in the media. Geno threw 4 of DKs 8 touchdowns in 3 starts and force fed him the ball all day vs the Jags.
Not ready to change a piece like this that, especially if we have to trust JS and PC to bring us in an Eskridge or Christine Michael or Penney or something. Maybe a Malik McDowell or an LJ Collier anyone? DK is a horse that has proven he can dominate in this league on any given day. I wouldn't only trade him for another position player of need who fits the same description.

[RiverDog]

Not ready to change a piece like this that, especially if we have to trust JS and PC to bring us in an Eskridge or Christine Michael or Penney or something. Maybe a Malik McDowell or an LJ Collier anyone? DK is a horse that has proven he can dominate in this league on any given day. I wouldn't only trade him for another position player of need who fits the same description.

I want Pete and JS out, trade Russell if he doesn't want to be part of the rebuild, trade Metcalf and bring in some new blood. The current paradigm just isn't working, and I see no reason to continue to beat our heads against a wall.

[obiken]

I want Pete and JS out, trade Russell if he doesn't want to be part of the rebuild, trade Metcalf and bring in some new blood. The current paradigm just isn't working, and I see no reason to continue to beat our heads against a wall.

But why should JS be punished for Pete's power grab? Who do you get to replace him? I agree with all the rest.

[RiverDog]

But why should JS be punished for Pete's power grab? Who do you get to replace him? I agree with all the rest.

Pete's power grab started in 2010. He would not have accepted the job had he not been completely in charge.

I'll leave replacing JS up to the next head coach, but a new broom sweeps clean. We may not be able to get the best HC candidate out there if we insist on retaining the GM.