Russ vs rogorona super spreader bowl

[Hawk Sista]

If we look at our Offense, it's just like it was under Bevell and Schottenheimer. To me it means Pete put his stamp on the Offense so Waldron is handcuffed to call the same type of O we've always seen with Carroll.

North

Actually, we had a top 10 offense, if not better, under Bevell who was FAR better than people will ever acknowledge. The ill-fated Super Bowl play that shall not be mentioned has influenced our memories of just how good & complete those teams were. Yes, the D was stifling, but we played complementary ball in the hey day and Bev was a big part of that. We also had Beast and other factors; just pointing out that Bevel was a good coach and we had a winning formula on offense when he was here.

[NorthHawk]

I believe that Offense ran through Lynch. He made those OL's look better than they were and our failing is not finding another
dominating RB and/or OL to be able to run. Marshawn regularly broke 100+ tackles/year during his tenure here and we've passed by excellent RBs in the draft since.

[Hawktawk]

All our OCs have had their moments . I sat and watched beast quake at the clink and saw Jeramy Bates get fired after calling a better game than Sean Payton . Bevell had some good offenses but still should have been fired the moment 49 ended it was such a bad call in the absolute worst moment . Schottie was calling the best offense Russ ever saw the first 8 games of last year . Then the 3 picks against AZ followed by a reported temper tantrum by Russ and his team about wanting more control of the offense . Our offense was plodding the second half of the season and imploded in the playoff loss. But not much Schottie could do when the qb goes 11-29 with a pick 6 with Donald out half the game . Still he was fired which I found somewhat surprising . I don’t think we know about Waldron yet. Genos last game he executed flawlessly as the team moved the ball at will and the offense put up an efficient 24 points and at least tied time of possession . We got shut out yesterday and had a 2-1 deficit in TOP. Is that Waldron fault ? Carroll refused to blame Russ hand post game or really be overly critical . He did address the fact they kept Wilson in the pistol all night to avoid him having to take snaps . Is that healed? Ready to go or rushed ? I think the answer is clear.

[I-5]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32635118/russell-wilson-points-two-bad-throws-seattle-seahawks-undoing-shutout-loss-green-bay-packers

According to Russ, it was just 2 bad throws. Is that what everyone else thought? Pretty sure I saw more than 2 bad throws (some of them weren't intercepted but they weren't catchable either), and some horrific decision-making. I fully expect Russ to turn it around, but it needs to happen fast...especially now with our D playing so well. It reminds me of the fade last year.

[trents]

I put no stock in Russ' claim that his finger injury was not a problem yesterday. Athletes will seldom ever acknowledge an injury as having affected their performance even when it's obvious to everyone else.

[I-5]

I put no stock in Russ' claim that his finger injury was not a problem yesterday. Athletes will seldom ever acknowledge an injury as having affected their performance even when it's obvious to everyone else.

100% agreed. I don't trust any athlete's claims about not being affected....their job security is their #1 priority, and in Russell's case, he could lose an arm and still say he's fine. I certainly hope it WAS the injury, because his throws looked off all night. His long balls were all a bit short armed too.

[Hawktawk]

I put no stock in Russ' claim that his finger injury was not a problem yesterday. Athletes will seldom ever acknowledge an injury as having affected their performance even when it's obvious to everyone else.

Yep this here ^^^reading between the lines of what was said and done he clearly wasn’t nearly 100%. They were messing around with gloves , splints , etc all week . They kept him out from under center . Then we saw what we saw and this may be the most concerning thing about Russ right now . He’s not being accountable . He wasn’t after the Titans , rejected Pete’s criticism of his brutal performance in overtime , called out the defense after scoring 17 vs the Vikes then saying postgame yesterday he was confident and only had 2 bad throws . Forget the picks were brutal decisions along with DOA throws . There were a couple overthrows by a mile on wide open guys . There was a crossing route that was 3 feet behind and handcuffed DK. DK didn’t squeeze one in the seam that would have been a first down . But Russ is not accepting accountability for his his playing poorly . Positive thinking becomes a liability when it outweighs reality .

[NorthHawk]

He was throwing tight spirals, so I think it was more a matter of timing and lack of practice over
the last few weeks. He also missed throwing early to Lockett and by the time he did throw, the defenders
had time to catch up and knock it down. I don’t think that would have happened if he hadn’t missed
any time.

[trents]

[quote="trents"Positive thinking becomes a liability when it outweighs reality .

Well said! I also think players need to allow themselves to feel the lows if they are to be hungry enough to make the highs happen down the line.

[trents]

To me, the depressing thing about the downward trend we see in the Hawks is there really isn't much hope for improvement in the foreseeable future because of their draft pick status. They've unwisely managed resources such that there was no payoff in the present and probably won't be in the foreseeable future. There was too much short term decision making. The Mariners have done a much better job in that regard.

[I-5]

To me, the depressing thing about the downward trend we see in the Hawks is there really isn't much hope for improvement in the foreseeable future because of their draft pick status. They've unwisely managed resources such that there was no payoff in the present and probably won't be in the foreseeable future. There was too much short term decision making. The Mariners have done a much better job in that regard.

I would agree with this, but does that mean that we just don't have enough talent on either side of the ball with the current roster? I might be alone on this, but I feel like with the glaring exception of the OL, and perhaps RB and LB, the team has mostly underachieved and would be successful if they simply fulfilled their potential. I'd be ok to have this secondary gel together for the next few years. They're no LOB, but even LOB needed a couple years together to become what it was.

[NorthHawk]

We have 7 picks next draft, so it’s not like last year with 3.
With them we could get a good RB, C, and DT at least.

[Hawktawk]

We are not the sum of our parts . Our defense is suddenly decent to good consistently . Our back end is really playing well. We are getting pressure .

We have 2 top flight receivers and Everett is as angry a Tight end as anyone short of a healthy George Kittle.Swain is a decent third receiver . Our run game isn’t horrible when we run . As PC pointed out Collins averaged 4.1 on 10 carries but other than 1 to homer that’s the only handoffs of the night . Our line is struggling with injuries and position changes . Brown is slowing down . That’s a problem for any QB.

But the fact of the matter is Russ has put up 7 points in his last 7 quarters with these players and this scheme . Geno put up 64 points in 3 starts plus 1 quarter with 5 TD passes and one rushing . And he took 13 sacks so it wasn’t like he was getting great protection . But he was putting his foot in the ground and getting rid of it accurately to well covered receivers, using the middle of the field and taking what was given , running screen plays CORRECTLY .

We can debate how bad Jax is all day. They are an NFL team coming off a win that got made fools of by our backup . It was clearly his best game , a really nice game with a 128 passer rating . With all these same players we got shut out with . Balls sailing over receivers . Desperation rookie heaves. Better defense ? Sure much better but the Jags went out and stuffed Josh Allen to the tune of 6 points the next week.

I so want to be wrong . I want Russ to have one more run in him , one more trip to the tournament . But I don’t see it . He’s a different guy than he was in his prime and it started long before the finger . It’s gonna be a long goodbye

[RiverDog]

We are not the sum of our parts . Our defense is suddenly decent to good consistently . Our back end is really playing well. We are getting pressure .

We have 2 top flight receivers and Everett is as angry a Tight end as anyone short of a healthy George Kittle.Swain is a decent third receiver . Our run game isn’t horrible when we run . As PC pointed out Collins averaged 4.1 on 10 carries but other than 1 to homer that’s the only handoffs of the night . Our line is struggling with injuries and position changes . Brown is slowing down . That’s a problem for any QB.

But the fact of the matter is Russ has put up 7 points in his last 7 quarters with these players and this scheme . Geno put up 64 points in 3 starts plus 1 quarter with 5 TD passes and one rushing . And he took 13 sacks so it wasn’t like he was getting great protection . But he was putting his foot in the ground and getting rid of it accurately to well covered receivers, using the middle of the field and taking what was given , running screen plays CORRECTLY .

We can debate how bad Jax is all day. They are an NFL team coming off a win that got made fools of by our backup . It was clearly his best game , a really nice game with a 128 passer rating . With all these same players we got shut out with . Balls sailing over receivers . Desperation rookie heaves. Better defense ? Sure much better but the Jags went out and stuffed Josh Allen to the tune of 6 points the next week.

I so want to be wrong . I want Russ to have one more run in him , one more trip to the tournament . But I don’t see it . He’s a different guy than he was in his prime and it started long before the finger . It’s gonna be a long goodbye

Man, Hawktalk, you have some infatuation with Geno.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

[obiken]

HT IF what you say is true we are nothing. We don't do anything well outside of Russell Wilson. We have no OLine, no Dline, we cannot run the ball and we cannot stop the run; we cannot cover, and we cannot rush the passer. Both QB's did not have good games for different reasons. However, IF AR had been 100%, this game would have been 21-0 at the half! You are writing off our best asset way too early. The bad news is bleaker down the road long term. We have an aging left tackle who is long in the tooth, and is going to want a lot more money. DK is going to want a lot more, and IF they pay it they are stupid, add to that Bobby is old and looks it this year. Sorry, we have for one of those rare times, an honest difference of opinion.
IF you traded RW to the Browns, with all their weapons, they would win a title, ALL they need is a good Qb.
Sorry, Pete needs to go, period. I love what he did for us, but he has made a load of desperate moves that show he cannot draft well. Maybe a bad analogy as a Duck alum, but Jimmy Lake just got fired, it was more for hiring a bad OC than for punching a player. Who hired the Coordinators, Pete. I am officially off Pete Carroll. Sorry, we cannot lose Russ. Russ on the open market brings 3 first rounders MINIMAL.

[NorthHawk]

We may not have a choice. Russ might say he wants out.

[RiverDog]

We may not have a choice. Russ might say he wants out.

That's the key. If Russell wants out, then I am all in on exploring options for a trade. If he doesn't, I'm not. He has a no trade clause in his contract, so the ball is in his court.

[Hawktawk]

Man, Hawktalk, you have some infatuation with Geno.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

No. You aren't picking up what I'm putting down.

I'm not comparing the play of the 2 to show how great Geno is, although I've seen enough to say he's definitely a guy Id consider as a gap type starter till we see what's next. I'm showing his stats to show how BAD RUSS HAS BEEN PLAYING.

Break down where I am factually incorrect with what I'm writing here.
Russ had one great complete game all year, Indy. A great second half vs the 9ers.

Dreadful second half vs Titans and the worst 3 and out he has ever had in overtime.

Russ on road vs Vikes. shut out second half, scored 17 points in a non competitive loss then defended the offense and dumped on the defense post game.

They had one common opponent this year. The Rams .Russ 3 quarters=7 points. Geno after sitting 5 years 10 points in 1 quarter including a 98 yard drive. If Lock doesn't fall down who knows. If Carroll doesn't waste a 3rd and 10 with a handoff by Russ with a mangled finger then another 3 and out with Russ with a mangled middle finger who knows indeed. Hindsight's 2020.

Geno on the road vs Steelers 20 points including 3 straight scoring drives between the third and 4th quarters. The coach passed up 2 mid 50 field goals and punted both times rather than go on 4th. Overtime was unfortunate but a great great defender won one more time. still 71% completion % with a TD pass, 99 QBR. Unless I'm mistaken the Steelers haven't lost since that game either.

Saints? What do you say. Kicker missed twice. Monsoon. Genos worst game by far against a team that has remained relevant despite massive injury losses. Still Geno threw a beautiful TD pass to DK, put up 10 more points than we did Sunday in light snow and didn't turn the ball over. Completed 60% of his passes.

Jax? That's just a really nice game for any QB in the league. 14 completions to start. 80% completion rate. Obviously deadly accurate, no mistakes, punched one in himself. 128 rating. Almost 30 minutes TOP.

So my apologies if I had a hard time watching Sunday as our defense and special teams gave us field position near midfield over and over.

You said earlier they should have gone to the bench Sunday. I agree. Carroll should have told Russ if you cant take snaps under center you aren't playing . Did it affect the calls running pistol all night? Of course.
I've said from the beginning there' s been a weirdness about this injury rehab, more about Russ than the team. Like genos deleted tweet "Id like to vent but it isn't safe" This fan and I'm sure many of the players are upset a guys personal wishes to be a superhero were put over the teams best interests.

I think his return was forced, rushed by his camp to make him a legend and a hero. It was about the narrative captured on film but he wasn't ready physically. And if I was Pete Carroll and had watched my backup play solid and give me a chance every single game and especially after what he saw Sunday I'd sit him down till he's fully healed, let him come out of the bullpen for once. It would do him good IMO.

I dont think Pete will. As always Id love to be shocked in a good way by RWs return to form and ripping off 8 in a row. Id love to come eat that crow. Just been watching the game a long time and seen some great's that get hit too much and I know its only 10 years but Russ looks like that guy.

[Hawktawk]

HT IF what you say is true we are nothing. We don't do anything well outside of Russell Wilson. We have no OLine, no Dline, we cannot run the ball and we cannot stop the run; we cannot cover, and we cannot rush the passer. Both QB's did not have good games for different reasons. However, IF AR had been 100%, this game would have been 21-0 at the half! You are writing off our best asset way too early. The bad news is bleaker down the road long term. We have an aging left tackle who is long in the tooth, and is going to want a lot more money. DK is going to want a lot more, and IF they pay it they are stupid, add to that Bobby is old and looks it this year. Sorry, we have for one of those rare times, an honest difference of opinion.
IF you traded RW to the Browns, with all their weapons, they would win a title, ALL they need is a good Qb.
Sorry, Pete needs to go, period. I love what he did for us, but he has made a load of desperate moves that show he cannot draft well. Maybe a bad analogy as a Duck alum, but Jimmy Lake just got fired, it was more for hiring a bad OC than for punching a player. Who hired the Coordinators, Pete. I am officially off Pete Carroll. Sorry, we cannot lose Russ. Russ on the open market brings 3 first rounders MINIMAL.

I'm sorry Obi. Its what I see. Hes really not been the same guy since about midway through last year but we won in a variety of ways. Russ and our offense were laid bare by the Rams in the playoffs with Russ going 11-29 with a pick 6. All great players play great at times until late in their careers. They just dont do it as often. Russ did it so often its been shocking when he doesn't. But I've got my blinders off. He's not the same guy. I think this could go sideways so fast they may regret not dealing him last offseason to maximize his trade value, especially if his finger leads to accuracy issues as it well could.

[RiverDog]

You said earlier they should have gone to the bench Sunday. I agree.

That's not what I said. I said that we would have been better off with Geno. It's a comment made in hindsight after watching Russell's performance. At no point during that game would I have sent him to the bench unless I made the determination that his finger was causing his performance issues, something that neither of us know with any degree of certainty. Looking at the result with the clarity of 20/20 hindsight, we would have had a better chance of winning with Geno.

And I'm truly sorry, but you do have an infatuation with Geno just in the way you characterize his play vs. Russell's. It's pretty obvious.

[Hawktawk]

We would have been better off with Geno.

That sounds like you were saying he should have been benched to me? Now Im infatuated with Geno?:lol:

[Hawktawk]

And I'm truly sorry, but you do have an infatuation with Geno just in the way you characterize his play vs. Russell's. It's pretty obvious.

I quote stats. How am I mischaracterizing stats? I'm comparing a 30 million a year HOF guy to a backup. Break it down. Where am I factually wrong?

30 million dollar guys are paid to win games. Backups are paid to keep you in games. We have had 2 non competitive games this year, both started by 30 million guy. First shutout in 10 years. Russ is 2 and 5 in his last 7 starts . That's the reality. Its not 2013 anymore.

Do I have a 100% different opinion of Geno Smith than I had when he entered the game on the 2 yard line vs the Rams? yes. I believe as the announcers said during the Jag broadcast that hes "starter quality" . He played admirably.

You believe he gave us the best chance last Sunday so not sure what your difference is. I dont think there are 30 better QBs than Geno right now. I dont think hes the second coming of joe Montana. But he could start for my Hawks while we figure out what's next because I think this is is for Russ.

[RiverDog]

We would have been better off with Geno.

That sounds like you were saying he should have been benched to me? Now Im infatuated with Geno?:lol:

An experienced and very successful player that has proven himself over a decades worth of football is going to receive a lot more forgiveness for his mistakes than a rookie would. Had that been Trey Lance or Justin Fields that stunk up the field like Russell did, they would have gotten benched. If it were Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, they wouldn't have.

[RiverDog]

And I'm truly sorry, but you do have an infatuation with Geno just in the way you characterize his play vs. Russell's. It's pretty obvious.

I quote stats. How am I mischaracterizing stats? I'm comparing a 30 million a year HOF guy to a backup. Break it down. Where am I factually wrong?

You're cherry picking, ignoring his turnovers/sacks he's taken in critical situations and losing 2 out of 3 of his starts. You're also using a different set of adjectives to describe his play, like a "beautifully thrown TD pass" or "he played admirably." Contrast those terms with the ones you're using to describe Russell's play.

Anyway, it's no big deal. I'm not calling you out on it, just giving you my opinion on how I see your perceptions and how they differ from my own.

[TriCitySam]

There were plenty of things to like in this game, it was winnable one. Some bad ref calls or we could have been leading it in the 4th qtr - against a good team. No doubt RW was not up to snuff: bad throws, poor decision making. But the D played really, really well. Even with a late give up TD, we only gave up 17 points against Rogers.

[Hawktawk]

I completely agree . Our defense played very well. Our D is officially legit having now turned in several stout performances . I’d add that Collins looked good . Just only got ten touches but hard running elusive decent back . I love Everett . Obviously not scoring means zero chance . It was so weird too. I bet we crossed midfield at least 5 times . Somehow we completed 7 of 15 3rd downs . Pete was asked after the game about that stat and he waved it off saying it didn’t mean a lot to pick them up
In garbage time . Asked why the team called 13 run plays including a doomed jet sweep and passed 40 times he said they just didn’t have enough snaps. Asked whether runs were being checked into passes he wasn’t sure . Really hard to understand how they could not score but they had the 2 picks obviously . very weird game.

[obiken]

I completely agree . Our defense played very well. Our D is officially legit having now turned in several stout performances . I’d add that Collins looked good

Thats a mouth full HT, we've turned the corner?? We are ranked 31st in defense, sorry, what can we do on defense??

[Hawktawk]

Obj you must understand the D was historically bad the first 6 weeks or so . I’ve seen the team improve greatly . There isn’t a legion of boom on the way but it’s decent . Even Sunday with Arod in his own house they held him to 3 for much of the game until the time of possession caught them . My eye test tells me if our offense coujd move the chains this D is good enough to win with now .

[RiverDog]

Obj you must understand the D was historically bad the first 6 weeks or so . I’ve seen the team improve greatly . There isn’t a legion of boom on the way but it’s decent . Even Sunday with Arod in his own house they held him to 3 for much of the game until the time of possession caught them . My eye test tells me if our offense coujd move the chains this D is good enough to win with now .

I tend to agree. We've had two consecutive games where we've kept our opponent out of the end zone for the first 3 quarters of the game and 4 straight games of holding scoring under the league average. While I'm hesitant to pronounce us as having turned the corner defensively until I see a couple more games, it's a lot more promising than the way we were performing at the start of the season.

[Hawktawk]

Over the last 4 games we have given up 60 points , an average of 15 per game . That stat is bolstered by the 13 point effort vs the Saints and 7 vs the Jags on a 4th down conversion in garbage time . And we saw what they did vs a piss@d Rodgers . I heard him on Pat Macafee’s show praising our defense . “ disciplined , hard to do anything at all against them “ and remember that’s with us only possessing the ball 20 minutes . The D is definitely improved . But we must score .
The D is better . Now we see Kyler and Hopkins make their likely return so another big test .

And one more time . Our offense in the last 7 quarters under Wilson has put up 7 points with 3 picks . I heard Dave Wyman this morning on ESPN talking about how he’s probably not 100% but also has been indecisive much of the time and ignoring chain moving options to take deep shots . He’s got to return to form or it’s definitely a lost season . And most of the greats have been benched , called out by the coach . Brady was benched . I remember Young getting yanked by Seifert vs the Eagles after a couple bad picks and standing on the sidelines swearing at Seifert. Montana was benched permanently for Young . We don’t have Young but we have a backup that can score and move the ball . As I’ve said I’d love to be on here in a festive mood laughing at my stupidity and overreactions. But Russ isn’t the same right now . Not in his play , not on the sidelines . He doesn’t have shark eyes anymore either . More like wide . Please make me wrong Russell.

[RiverDog]

He’s (Russell) got to return to form or it’s definitely a lost season . And most of the greats have been benched , called out by the coach . Brady was benched . I remember Young getting yanked by Seifert vs the Eagles after a couple bad picks and standing on the sidelines swearing at Seifert. Montana was benched permanently for Young . We don’t have Young but we have a backup that can score and move the ball.

The season is already lost, unless you believe in a one in ten shot at making the playoffs not to mention getting to the Super Bowl:

Here's a list of the playoff chances for all the other NFC teams (their percentage chances of getting into the playoffs is listed next to them in parentheses): Vikings (35.8%), Eagles (23.9%), Panthers (21.7%), Seahawks (9.8%), Falcons (7.6%), Giants (3.7%), Washington (3.4%), Bears (0.9%), Lions (0%).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2021 ... o-week-11/

So now you're hinting at benching Russell for Geno. And you wonder why you're giving me the perception that you have an obsession with Geno.

[TriCitySam]

I don't think "31st in defense" is that relevant. As we all know, this is a defense that makes them drive down the field with small chunks and we try to get them out at some point.

The FACT is, we are 7th in scoring, giving up an average of 20.7 points per game. That's the number that matters most - other than TO ratio. The teams that are bad in scoring: Jets, Lions, Texans, etc. We're not there, our D, even with a couple bad outings has protected the EZ pretty well and THAT is with us being DEAD LAST in TOP. They've been on the field a long time, if our offense could change that, its highly likely #7 becomes #1-3.

[Hawktawk]

The season is already lost, unless you believe in a one in ten shot at making the playoffs not to mention getting to the Super Bowl:

Here's a list of the playoff chances for all the other NFC teams (their percentage chances of getting into the playoffs is listed next to them in parentheses): Vikings (35.8%), Eagles (23.9%), Panthers (21.7%), Seahawks (9.8%), Falcons (7.6%), Giants (3.7%), Washington (3.4%), Bears (0.9%), Lions (0%).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2021 ... o-week-11/

So now you're hinting at benching Russell for Geno. And you wonder why you're giving me the perception that you have an obsession with Geno.

I said Geno should have been put in the game . You said we would have been better off with him that’s splitting hairs . I’m right , not obsessed or infatuated .

Russ was not himself and even himself isn’t himself anymore . I’ll also point out I speculated on the injury thread that he was forcing his way into the field based on his own timeline of 4 weeks rather than his actual progress . The fact they were “ trying al kinds of stuff “ on his hand , gloves etc . The fact he stayed in pistol all night . The way he threw the ball . Hindsight’s 20-20 but he should have sat another week but he calls the shots . We have a proven competent guy who has proven he can run the offense.

As for actually benching Russ , Im not advocating it at the moment but like Knox said “ sometimes you have to go to the bullpen “ he replaced the iconic Jim Zorn at halftime permanently . If Russ should continue on his current trajectory , 2-5 in his last 7 starts . 3 picks in the last 7 quarters with 7 points scored . Then yeah. I’ll watch Geno. I’m a fan of the team first and players second . I certainly hope it isn’t the case. If nothing else Russ needs to show well enough to bring high value in a trade . There were rumblings among some GMs who wouldn’t go on the record who questioned his deteriorating performance in the pocket . I’ve said it all along . I want him to do well . But quarterback rating aside here we are 3-6 and he started 4 of the losses .