Interesting poll, wanted your take

[monkey]

The question posed over at Seahawks.com is whether or not "the Tip" is the most significant play ever. Here is the list of other significant plays you can vote for.

The"holding call heard 'round the Pacific Northwest"
Curt Warner's 2-yard TD run to upset the Dolphins
Jordan Babineaux's stop of Tony Romo
Steve Largent's 100th touchdown catch
Marshawn Lynch's "Beast Quake" 67-yard TD run
(Then of course) Richard Sherman's "Immaculate Deflection"

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Was-Richard-Sherman%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98Immaculate-Deflection%E2%80%99-most-significant-Seahawks%E2%80%99-play-ever/94393978-2adb-44ec-8c7c-18c6b02d47f5

I'm posting this here so that you guys can go vote if you want, but more because, I think it's a very good question.
I'm old enough, and started following the Seahawks at a young enough age that, I remember all those plays...I remember them like they just happened.
Even with those memories still intact, and keeping in mind that humans have a tendency to over-hype the most recent significant events, sometimes at the expense of older significant events*, I personally feel that yes, the tip is in fact the single greatest play in Seahawks history, followed by the Beastquake run.

I'm very curious to know what you all think. Especially you older folks who remember the other significant moments...where do you rank "the Tip"?

*There obviously are exceptions to that, just ask any Jets fan, and they'll still say that Superbowl 3, and specifically Namath's guarantee, was the greatest event ever.

[HumanCockroach]

The question posed over at Seahawks.com is whether or not "the Tip" is the most significant play ever. Here is the list of other significant plays you can vote for.

The"holding call heard 'round the Pacific Northwest"
Curt Warner's 2-yard TD run to upset the Dolphins
Jordan Babineaux's stop of Tony Romo
Steve Largent's 100th touchdown catch
Marshawn Lynch's "Beast Quake" 67-yard TD run
(Then of course) Richard Sherman's "Immaculate Deflection"

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Was-Richard-Sherman%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98Immaculate-Deflection%E2%80%99-most-significant-Seahawks%E2%80%99-play-ever/94393978-2adb-44ec-8c7c-18c6b02d47f5

I'm posting this here so that you guys can go vote if you want, but more because, I think it's a very good question.
I'm old enough, and started following the Seahawks at a young enough age that, I remember all those plays...I remember them like they just happened.
Even with those memories still intact, and keeping in mind that humans have a tendency to over-hype the most recent significant events, sometimes at the expense of older significant events*, I personally feel that yes, the tip is in fact the single greatest play in Seahawks history, followed by the Beastquake run.

I'm very curious to know what you all think. Especially you older folks who remember the other significant moments...where do you rank "the Tip"?

*There obviously are exceptions to that, just ask any Jets fan, and they'll still say that Superbowl 3, and specifically Namath's guarantee, was the greatest event ever.

1) Tip

2) Warner run

3) Beast Quake

4) Largents 100th

5) Big play Babs

6) Largents pay back on Harden

7) a Warren dive off tackle

8) Stan Gelbaugh win against Broncos

( you get the point, that holding call is LAST on my list, dead f-ing last, just below the "we thought the white helmet was the football" never mind that even THAT was stopped short of the goal line, and the "trapped" pick Young had against Houston)

[NorthHawk]

I think it was the Beastquake run because it set the tone for desire, effort, and never give up attitude we see today. I'm not sure we would be champions today if not for that run as it started off the buy-in from the star players.

[RiverDog]

Actually Largent's catch that broke the consecutive game streak with 1 or more receptions was a much more heralded event than was his 100th TD IMO.

The most significant in terms of the impact it had on our team has to be Sherman's Immaculate Deflection (great name for it, but the way). None of the others came close to sending us to the SB like Sherman's play did.

[Eaglehawk]

It was either Babs play or it was Sherman's play, because both plays won the game for us.


Because Sherman's play effectively punched our ticket to the SB, I say SHERMAN's IMMACULATE DEFLECTION as the most important play.

[Zorn76]

monkey - Point taken for a fan remembering the most recent big play, but in the end, yeah, Sherman's tip takes the cake by a wide margin, IMO.

[monkey]

Actually Largent's catch that broke the consecutive game streak with 1 or more receptions was a much more heralded event than was his 100th TD IMO.

The most significant in terms of the impact it had on our team has to be Sherman's Immaculate Deflection (great name for it, but the way). None of the others came close to sending us to the SB like Sherman's play did.

LOL! I figured the older guys would think the same way.
I agree with you Riv, Largent's consecutive game streak was a much more heralded event, it was more heralded at the moment it happened by far.
And again, I think that "the tip" is the Seahawks version of "the catch" it's THAT important to our history.
The tip happened in the biggest game (NFC championship) against the biggest rival, and without it, we're not going on to win the Superbowl.
It doesn't get bigger or more important than that!
It has all the earmarks that the "Immaculate reception" (most overrated play of all time by far BTW!) or "the catch" or whatever other legendary moment in football history. The Beastquake is close, and it has become a HUGE moment in local sports lore, but "the tip" was heard around the world! That moment was NATIONAL, and even international.
Everyone was tuned into the game watching and everyone aw the aftermath. Also, because of Sherman's rant afterwards, it got played OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER...we couldn't have paid for better advertising.
The Seahawks went from just another team, to the most talked about team in football with just that one play. Nothing in our history even comes close IMO, and I remember all those other plays and moments well.

[kalibane]

I think the hype surrounding Largent's consecutive reception streak has a lot to do with the fact that there just wasn't much to celebrate in Seahawk Land. No one outside Seattle remembers that.

I'm trying to fight against recency principal here and really think. It comes down to Beastquake vs. this play. This play had the biggest stakes I guess... but on the other hand as has been discussed in other threads, this wasn't a "tough" play for Sherman. I've seen this play (or a rough facsimile) from Sherman at least 5-6 times over the past couple of years. The outcome was completely expected once that ball was thrown.

So utlimately I'm going with Beastquake... it was like getting a glimpse of what this team would become. No one took the team seriously and they came out and punched the defending Champs in the mouth and physically beat them. From Marshawn's individual effort to Hass, Locklear, BMW and Polumbus sprinting down field to help block. Everyone was all in. This was what the Pete Carroll era was going to be about. And it completely broke the Saints backs.

I still go back and watch it on Youtube multiple times a year since it happened, and when I watch it I watch it no less than 10 times. I don't know that I'll ever make a point to go back and watch the "Immaculate Deflection". Probably the greatest single run I've ever seen.

[RiverDog]

I think the hype surrounding Largent's consecutive reception streak has a lot to do with the fact that there just wasn't much to celebrate in Seahawk Land. No one outside Seattle remembers that.

I'm trying to fight against recency principal here and really think. It comes down to Beastquake vs. this play. This play had the biggest stakes I guess... but on the other hand as has been discussed in other threads, this wasn't a "tough" play for Sherman. I've seen this play (or a rough facsimile) from Sherman at least 5-6 times over the past couple of years. The outcome was completely expected once that ball was thrown.

So utlimately I'm going with Beastquake... it was like getting a glimpse of what this team would become. No one took the team seriously and they came out and punched the defending Champs in the mouth and physically beat them. From Marshawn's individual effort to Hass, Locklear, BMW and Polumbus sprinting down field to help block. Everyone was all in. This was what the Pete Carroll era was going to be about. And it completely broke the Saints backs.

I still go back and watch it on Youtube multiple times a year since it happened, and when I watch it I watch it no less than 10 times. I don't know that I'll ever make a point to go back and watch the "Immaculate Deflection". Probably the greatest single run I've ever seen.

That's because all the receiving records went through the roof immediately following Largent's era. Few people outside Seattle even remember who Steve Largent was let alone his catch that broke the consecutive game record. Hell, most Seahawk fans would be hard pressed to name who's record it was that Largent broke (Harold Carmichael).

But it was a huge deal when it happened. I was there, in person. It just so happened that it was on Monday Night Football, back in a time when MNF still ruled Prime Time. I can remember the huge flock of sidelines cameramen moving in unison up until Largent made his catch, then quickly dissipated. Trust me, it was a huge deal even with the national press. Football didn't have a lot of stats to trumpet compared to the other major sports, so they tried to milk it for as much as they could.

[kalibane]

Riv, I lived through that time myself.

Few people outside Seattle even remember who Steve Largent was let alone his catch that broke the consecutive game record. Hell, most Seahawk fans would be hard pressed to name who's record it was that Largent broke (Harold Carmichael).

This is exactly my point. It had no lasting significance outside of Seattle. It didn't shift the direction of the franchise. It was just a great individual accomplishment. No niner fans consider any of Jerry Rice's record breaking catches as one of the greatest in franchise history. The Packers fans don't talk about Brett Favre's record breaking plays. The Cowboys don't talk about Emmitt Smith breaking the all-time rushing record as the greatest play in Cowboy's history. Largent's record setting play was only so revered due to lack of team success. It was one of the few moments of excellence that Seahawk fans could celebrate.

If that's the most significant play in franchise history, you have a sad franchise. It wasn't even a "great" play it was just a result of sustained accumulation. Largent's revenge hit against Harden is way more memorable than his catch to break the streak held by Harold Carmichael. I also disagree that it was more heralded than breaking Hutson's records. That's what put Largent on the national stage... it was a more revered record and it stood for longer... it's also what got him the Wheaties Box.

[PasadenaHawk]

I would have to say Sherman's tip for the obvious reason stated earlier - it sent us to the SB. BeastQuake, Largent hit and Big Play Babs shoestring tackle of Romo are all a lot of fun to watch over and over again.

I may be off here, but didn't Easley have a late game interception in the playoff game against the Raiders '84 that cemented our win? I remember we were pretty dominant but also seem to recall Raiders, after stinking it up most of the game, got their sh*t together to make it close.

[Anthony]

1 play that is not listed, that I think was huge for us was the 4th and 7 against SF, for Rw to know he could draw them off, and to throw a perfect strike was money and a huge play. Without it the deflection might never happen.

[HumanCockroach]

1 play that is not listed, that I think was huge for us was the 4th and 7 against SF, for Rw to know he could draw them off, and to throw a perfect strike was money and a huge play. Without it the deflection might never happen.

Yeah, I was surprised that wasn't on the list. Also thought Kriegs no time on the clock heave to Skansi in KC after Thomas had like 9 sacks and he spun him off might be on that list. One of the most exciting plays I've ever seen. Guess the "importance" of the game makes it irrelevant, but for shear great plays, that remains up there for me.

I placed Warners run ahead of the Beast quake, simply because it was a HUGE upset, that told the nation that Seattle actually HAD a team, before that, Seattle wasn't taken seriously ( that and it was the last playoff road win before the Skins game, which is a long, LONG time).

[RiverDog]

Riv, I lived through that time myself.

Few people outside Seattle even remember who Steve Largent was let alone his catch that broke the consecutive game record. Hell, most Seahawk fans would be hard pressed to name who's record it was that Largent broke (Harold Carmichael).

This is exactly my point. It had no lasting significance outside of Seattle. It didn't shift the direction of the franchise. It was just a great individual accomplishment. No niner fans consider any of Jerry Rice's record breaking catches as one of the greatest in franchise history. The Packers fans don't talk about Brett Favre's record breaking plays. The Cowboys don't talk about Emmitt Smith breaking the all-time rushing record as the greatest play in Cowboy's history. Largent's record setting play was only so revered due to lack of team success. It was one of the few moments of excellence that Seahawk fans could celebrate.

If that's the most significant play in franchise history, you have a sad franchise. It wasn't even a "great" play it was just a result of sustained accumulation. Largent's revenge hit against Harden is way more memorable than his catch to break the streak held by Harold Carmichael. I also disagree that it was more heralded than breaking Hutson's records. That's what put Largent on the national stage... it was a more revered record and it stood for longer... it's also what got him the Wheaties Box.

I'm not arguing that at all. All I was saying was that Largent's breaking the consecutive game streak was a more heralded event than his 100th TD pass. Individual stats just aren't that big of a thing in football.

BTW, I was in the stands for Largent's 'revenge' hit on Hardin, and immediately recognized the significance before Hardin hit the ground. It happened right in front of me, albeit it from about midway in the 300 level.

Individual records and stats aren't that big of a deal in football, at least not when you compare them to baseball or even basketball.

[PasadenaHawk]

1 play that is not listed, that I think was huge for us was the 4th and 7 against SF, for Rw to know he could draw them off, and to throw a perfect strike was money and a huge play. Without it the deflection might never happen.

Thanks for mentioning. That play was huge too! Sherman's tip was the nail in the coffin. The 4th & 7 earlier I think was the best planned and best executed play I recall witnessing. It was PERFECTLY executed!

[kalibane]

You're a lucky summamabitsh River. I remember litterally searching the internet off and on for about three years to find a clip of that hit before someone out there finally posted it. Wish I could have seen it first hand.

[monkey]

1 play that is not listed, that I think was huge for us was the 4th and 7 against SF, for Rw to know he could draw them off, and to throw a perfect strike was money and a huge play. Without it the deflection might never happen.

Had the tip not happened the way it did, had the game just ended on downs for example, that play would have gone down as the big play from that game, and would still be getting RAVED about, and quite possibly talked about as the biggest play in Seahawks history.
So you're right Anthony, that was a HUGE play...it's just unfortunate that, most people, probably even most Seahawks fans will eventually forget about that play, or at least it will fade in our consciousness, while the tip will likely (much like the catch or immaculate reception) grow in legend and status.

Even so, IMO that 4th and 7 play was the most important moment of the game, because it gave us the lead, and even if the tip had just been knocked away rather than intercepted we still would have won the game eventually. With a six point lead and Kaepernick at the helm for the Niners there's no way they were going to win. It would have taken another play or three, but it would have ended with a Seahawks victory eventually, because our defense is that good, and Kaepernick sucks.

Still, because of the way the tip happened, and what happened after, it will likely be the moment remembered for years to come rather than that amazing 4th and 7 play.

[RiverDog]

1 play that is not listed, that I think was huge for us was the 4th and 7 against SF, for Rw to know he could draw them off, and to throw a perfect strike was money and a huge play. Without it the deflection might never happen.

Had the tip not happened the way it did, had the game just ended on downs for example, that play would have gone down as the big play from that game, and would still be getting RAVED about, and quite possibly talked about as the biggest play in Seahawks history.
So you're right Anthony, that was a HUGE play...it's just unfortunate that, most people, probably even most Seahawks fans will eventually forget about that play, or at least it will fade in our consciousness, while the tip will likely (much like the catch or immaculate reception) grow in legend and status.

Even so, IMO that 4th and 7 play was the most important moment of the game, because it gave us the lead, and even if the tip had just been knocked away rather than intercepted we still would have won the game eventually. With a six point lead and Kaepernick at the helm for the Niners there's no way they were going to win. It would have taken another play or three, but it would have ended with a Seahawks victory eventually, because our defense is that good, and Kaepernick sucks.

Still, because of the way the tip happened, and what happened after, it will likely be the moment remembered for years to come rather than that amazing 4th and 7 play.

Odd thing about that 4th-and-7 play was that Pete would have gone for the FG had Hauscka not come up and told him he wasn't sure he could connect from that distance and recommended going for it..

[Oly]

Great topic. Given that the topic is "most significant play" rather than "greatest play," I think it has to go to the play that, you know, had the most significant payoff. In light of that, the play most instrumental to our SB has to be the winner.

But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the Immaculate Deflection.

As others have said, the Beastquake run was significant in ushering in this entire period of Carroll-era success. That run set the tone for this entire era. If the Seahawks go on a Patriots-like run (hope I don't jinx it), we will probably look back at the Beastquake run as the most significant play because it started the era.

That said, we don't know if the Hawks will have that kind of a dominant era, and I would rather not count chickens before they hatch. At this point in franchise history, we can just look at that one SB win. I would love to be able to point to a play in the SB that would be more significant, and Harvin and Smith's returns should be in the conversation, but no play in the SB had the kind of big-stage drama that the Sherman play did, so the Immaculate Deflection gets my vote.

Now, if the topic was "greatest play," then the Beastquake run--which is the best run in franchise history, the best run in playoff history, and has to be in consideration for the best run in NFL history--would win.

[BelizeHawk]

Hey all. Good to see so many familiar faces. I just joined up, but I was a frequent reader and occasional poster on the PI forum under the name tonykang. Changed up the handle this time around to be more representative of who I am. Family and I live in Belize now. Where, by the way, I walked in to a sports bar the other day and saw, hanging prominently on the wall, a giant 12th man banner. Needless to say I'll be back there come football season.
Anyway, in regards to the poll question, I would have to give the Sherman tip the nod. The question asks what the most significant play was. The Sherman tip secured our spot in the Super Bowl that became our first ever championship. If the SB had not been such a blow out there might have been a play there that ended up being the most significant.
If the poll had asked for the best play and not the most significant it would have been Beastquake by a mile.
Again. awesome to see all of you on here. GO HAWKS

[Eaglehawk]

I would have to say Sherman's tip for the obvious reason stated earlier - it sent us to the SB. BeastQuake, Largent hit and Big Play Babs shoestring tackle of Romo are all a lot of fun to watch over and over again.

I may be off here, but didn't Easley have a late game interception in the playoff game against the Raiders '84 that cemented our win? I remember we were pretty dominant but also seem to recall Raiders, after stinking it up most of the game, got their sh*t together to make it close.

Best in franchise history.

[monkey]

Now, if the topic was "greatest play," then the Beastquake run--which is the best run in franchise history, the best run in playoff history, and has to be in consideration for the best run in NFL history--would win.

Good point Oly, I agree. For degree of difficulty, the Beastquake has it hands down. That run is considered to be, even by non-Seahawks fans, the best playoff run of all time.

I remember you Belizehawk, glad to see you here. The more the better.

[RiverDog]

Hey all. Good to see so many familiar faces. I just joined up, but I was a frequent reader and occasional poster on the PI forum under the name tonykang. Changed up the handle this time around to be more representative of who I am. Family and I live in Belize now. Where, by the way, I walked in to a sports bar the other day and saw, hanging prominently on the wall, a giant 12th man banner. Needless to say I'll be back there come football season.
Anyway, in regards to the poll question, I would have to give the Sherman tip the nod. The question asks what the most significant play was. The Sherman tip secured our spot in the Super Bowl that became our first ever championship. If the SB had not been such a blow out there might have been a play there that ended up being the most significant.
If the poll had asked for the best play and not the most significant it would have been Beastquake by a mile.
Again. awesome to see all of you on here. GO HAWKS

I, too, remember tonykang. Glad you found us, and I hope you visit regularly.

The Beastquake run was by far the most impressive play, but it ranks down quite a bit as far as significance goes. If I recall, we won that game handily and lost big time the next weekend in Chicago. I also dispute the notion that it started something for our new regime. We went 7-9 and missed the playoffs the following season. IMO the real jumping off point of our current juggernaut status was the 2nd part of the 2012 season, beginning with the OT win in Chicago.

[PasadenaHawk]

Hey all. Good to see so many familiar faces. I just joined up, but I was a frequent reader and occasional poster on the PI forum under the name tonykang. Changed up the handle this time around to be more representative of who I am. Family and I live in Belize now. Where, by the way, I walked in to a sports bar the other day and saw, hanging prominently on the wall, a giant 12th man banner. Needless to say I'll be back there come football season.
Anyway, in regards to the poll question, I would have to give the Sherman tip the nod. The question asks what the most significant play was. The Sherman tip secured our spot in the Super Bowl that became our first ever championship. If the SB had not been such a blow out there might have been a play there that ended up being the most significant.
If the poll had asked for the best play and not the most significant it would have been Beastquake by a mile.
Again. awesome to see all of you on here. GO HAWKS

I remember you. Good to see you back. Where in Belize do you live? I've only been to Ambergis Cay, but it was awesome!

[PasadenaHawk]

Hey all. Good to see so many familiar faces. I just joined up, but I was a frequent reader and occasional poster on the PI forum under the name tonykang. Changed up the handle this time around to be more representative of who I am. Family and I live in Belize now. Where, by the way, I walked in to a sports bar the other day and saw, hanging prominently on the wall, a giant 12th man banner. Needless to say I'll be back there come football season.
Anyway, in regards to the poll question, I would have to give the Sherman tip the nod. The question asks what the most significant play was. The Sherman tip secured our spot in the Super Bowl that became our first ever championship. If the SB had not been such a blow out there might have been a play there that ended up being the most significant.
If the poll had asked for the best play and not the most significant it would have been Beastquake by a mile.
Again. awesome to see all of you on here. GO HAWKS

I, too, remember tonykang. Glad you found us, and I hope you visit regularly.

The Beastquake run was by far the most impressive play, but it ranks down quite a bit as far as significance goes. If I recall, we won that game handily and lost big time the next weekend in Chicago. I also dispute the notion that it started something for our new regime. We went 7-9 and missed the playoffs the following season. IMO the real jumping off point of our current juggernaut status was the 2nd part of the 2012 season, beginning with the OT win in Chicago.

Not trying to argue with you for argument sake, but the Beastquake run was huge. And the W was hardly in the bag againts New Orleans at the time. They were within a score of tying it up as I recall. You are right though, we got our butts handed to us the next week in Chicago. Agree to that the OT win in Chicago in 2012 seemed to mark a turn in our teams success, but that is not pointing to one single play as the poll asked for.

[kalibane]

Exactly. That run was what broke the Saints backs. It wasn't a "handy" win. by any means. The Hawks were up 4 and the Saints had been moving the ball in the second half at will. If that drive stalls, the Saints get the ball back with plenty of time Seattle probably loses. They went 7-9 the next year because they were in the midst of turning over the entire roster and had Tavaris Jackson as the starting QB playing through injuries. It definitely set the tone of the franchise though. These were no longer the soft Seattle Seahawks everyone was accustomed to.

[Vegaseahawk]

I've been a fan since day one, & that tip, (which happened on my end of the field as I watched it unfold in what seemed like slow motion), was far & away the most significant play ever in Seattle Seahawks history.

[NorthHawk]

Exactly. That run was what broke the Saints backs. It wasn't a "handy" win. by any means. The Hawks were up 4 and the Saints had been moving the ball in the second half at will. If that drive stalls, the Saints get the ball back with plenty of time Seattle probably loses. They went 7-9 the next year because they were in the midst of turning over the entire roster and had Tavaris Jackson as the starting QB playing through injuries. It definitely set the tone of the franchise though. These were no longer the soft Seattle Seahawks everyone was accustomed to.

I think that play signified when the Seahawks really became Pete Carroll's team.
There was a different attitude after that - maybe it was just hope, but it was also like you said no longer the 'soft' punch them in the mouth and they will go away team we were.

[monkey]

Exactly. That run was what broke the Saints backs. It wasn't a "handy" win. by any means. The Hawks were up 4 and the Saints had been moving the ball in the second half at will. If that drive stalls, the Saints get the ball back with plenty of time Seattle probably loses. They went 7-9 the next year because they were in the midst of turning over the entire roster and had Tavaris Jackson as the starting QB playing through injuries. It definitely set the tone of the franchise though. These were no longer the soft Seattle Seahawks everyone was accustomed to.

I can agree with both this AND the idea that the Bears game, the comeback, and fact we FINALLY broke through on the road was CRUCIAL to getting to the Superbowl.
For that matter, so was the Patriots game. That comeback against a really good team, and the mighty Brady, after Earl and Sherm talked about coming back to win, was HUGE for the team...from that moment on the really believed they could beat anyone at home.
If you listen to the Sound FX from those games you'll hear the belief in themselves as a team really take hold in the comments they make to each other on the sideline. You can literally HEAR the growth in belief and expectations.
The comeback against the Texans (who IMO are still a far better team than their record shows, and will probably bounce back next year and be in the playoff picture. Seriously.) was also HUGE for the team, as it got them to 4-0 for the first time ever. That did something for their confidence, beating a team on the road, one which many thought would be a Super Bowl contender.

Lots of really big moments the last few years, the almost comeback against the Falcons, they came SO close, and they knew they should have won. Beating the Redskins coming from behind...big big road playoff win! Obviously the Beastquake, setting the tone for the team's tough attitude, were all certainly among them, but IMO the biggest by far is the Tip.
Even though that wasn't the most impressive play of the game, and I believe we would have won anyway, even if the pass had just been tipped out of bounds or dropped incomplete.
Look at how Sherman is still marketing that play...it's going to live on in our memories for a LONG time.
IMO it's out "the catch" play.

[Eaglehawk]

You can theorize about when the team became PC's team. Kalibane is off point here as those who sing his praises. You guys are seeing too many trees and not the forest. You guys may be great writers, and all, but the facts are the facts no matter how you may spin it in your glorious prose.

It became PC's team when he became coach. PERIOD.

He put the pieces HE wanted to build the team with through 2013-2014. (Of course, cause its HIS team).


The team began playing to PC's standard mid season of 2013. When that happened, when everyone upped their game, that is when PC's team became a SB contender.

END OF STORY.

The other stuff about ML's run and the Falcon's game is 100 percent IRRELEVANT. Gotta hand it to you, though, you guys are great at SPIN. I 100 percent disagree with your characterization of this point.

It was ALWAYS PC's team guys. ALWAYS!!!

[kalibane]

Eagle please. If that's the case then this team was Jim Mora's team the moment he became head coach. But the truth of the matter is this was NEVER Jim Mora's team because the team never bought in.

It's possible that we're wrong about the significance of the plays we're talking about, but it's impossible that this team became Pete's team the day he was hired. This team became Pete's team when the majority of players and team leaders bought in and believed in his vision. That doesn't happen instantly. You have to gain trust and produce results. Often there are crucial moments or games where a shift occurs. For instance the 49ers didn't really become Steve Young's team until Young blew up on the sidelines at his coaches. From that point forward the 49ers played with a new edge.

For me I see that moment as when the Seahawks beat the Saints... up until then you can do all the rah rah, positive reinforcment that you want but unless you win no one pays attention and they're just another 7-9 team. To beat the defending champs the way they did I believe is one of those moments that cements that things are working and this guy knows what he's talking about. And no matter what happened that next week they knew they could match up physically with the best. And for my money the Beastquake was the key play in that game.

The Chicago game was a big game to get the win on the road monkey off their back (compared to the Miami game that they lost and shouldn't have).

It's a process and there are generally benchmarks on the way, unless it's the college level and you can overwhelm people with superior talent. When you don't have success the infighting starts the lockerrom gets fractured and people start playing for themselves instead of the team. And that's why those wins are important.

[NorthHawk]

Important point about benchmarks - or milestones if you will.
I agree with just about everything kal said.
Coaches lose teams and coaches win them over. In our case, Pete won them over fairly early and I think the major milestone was the Beastquake run where everyone came together for a big win.
After that game, there were some other games and points where you can point to as very important, but for my money that's where it all started.

[RiverDog]

OK, so the Beast Quake run resulted in a playoff win. What was it followed by? A drubbing on the road. What was it preceded by? A 7-9 regular season. What was our season like the following year? 7-9, missed the playoffs. In the year after that, in 2012, what was our mid season W/L record? 4-4.

I'm sorry, but as great as that run was, it didn't kick start anything. This team didn't hit its stride until the season Russell Wilson became the starting quarterback and until they took the training wheels off of him. Before mid season of 2012, we were a .500ish team, and always would have been had we not drafted Russell and had Pete not had the balls to make him our starting quarterback. As great a job Pete has done at building this defense, the single most important thing he's done for the success of this franchise was drafting and starting Russell Wilson.

[kalibane]

It's my belief that it was Pete's first year... he had a completely different approach than other coaches in the league and a questionable history as an NFL coach. I think that win helped get players to buy in and trust the process. I think that if they get drubbed in that game against the Saints and they follow up with another 7-9 season (as they did) then doubt starts to take root, and maybe things go differently.

And it's not just the players. Imagine the difference in the media coverage and fan response during the following season if Pete's first two years were an "undeserved" playoff game based on a pitiful division, followed by another losing season with no playoffs while chasing beloved players like Matt Hasselbeck and Bobby Engram out of town in favor of Tavaris Jackson?

It's a process, everything builds on itself and in my opinion that playoff win against the Saints was the first major building block. Now you don't have to agree with me... and frankly I don't really care. But if you think that things only changed midway through 2012 you're deluding yourself. That's when they became "contenders"... but you have to walk before you run and for my money Beastquake was this teams first steps.

[Eaglehawk]

OK, so the Beast Quake run resulted in a playoff win. What was it followed by? A drubbing on the road. What was it preceded by? A 7-9 regular season. What was our season like the following year? 7-9, missed the playoffs. In the year after that, in 2012, what was our mid season W/L record? 4-4.

I'm sorry, but as great as that run was, it didn't kick start anything. This team didn't hit its stride until the season Russell Wilson became the starting quarterback and until they took the training wheels off of him. Before mid season of 2012, we were a .500ish team, and always would have been had we not drafted Russell and had Pete not had the balls to make him our starting quarterback. As great a job Pete has done at building this defense, the single most important thing he's done for the success of this franchise was drafting and starting Russell Wilson.

Even though we have differing points of view to this, I am definitely closer to RD's analysis than anyone else's on this thread.
The run did NOTHING. The run meant nothing to our SB team last season, and it was alwsys PC's team.
NUFF SAID.

[RiverDog]

It's my belief that it was Pete's first year... he had a completely different approach than other coaches in the league and a questionable history as an NFL coach. I think that win helped get players to buy in and trust the process. I think that if they get drubbed in that game against the Saints and they follow up with another 7-9 season (as they did) then doubt starts to take root, and maybe things go differently.

And it's not just the players. Imagine the difference in the media coverage and fan response during the following season if Pete's first two years were an "undeserved" playoff game based on a pitiful division, followed by another losing season with no playoffs while chasing beloved players like Matt Hasselbeck and Bobby Engram out of town in favor of Tavaris Jackson?

It's a process, everything builds on itself and in my opinion that playoff win against the Saints was the first major building block. Now you don't have to agree with me... and frankly I don't really care. But if you think that things only changed midway through 2012 you're deluding yourself. That's when they became "contenders"... but you have to walk before you run and for my money Beastquake was this teams first steps.

If those were the first steps, then they must have been into quick sand because all we did the next game was to get our asses handed to us by a team we'd already beaten in their place that very season. So much for going out and winning one for the Gipper.

Bottom line is that without Russell Wilson, who came onto the scene two seasons after Beast Quake, we are only marginally better than the .500ish teams of the two prior seasons. 9-7 instead of 7-9. Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Da. That is unless you don't think a Russell vs. TJack exchange is worth 4 games.

That's not to disrespect Beast Quake. It was the best single running play I've ever seen. I just don't feel that it had a tangible effect on the composition of our current World Champs. IMO b**** slapping the Niners on national TV had a larger emotional impact than Beast Quake

[Eaglehawk]

It's my belief that it was Pete's first year... he had a completely different approach than other coaches in the league and a questionable history as an NFL coach. I think that win helped get players to buy in and trust the process. I think that if they get drubbed in that game against the Saints and they follow up with another 7-9 season (as they did) then doubt starts to take root, and maybe things go differently.

And it's not just the players. Imagine the difference in the media coverage and fan response during the following season if Pete's first two years were an "undeserved" playoff game based on a pitiful division, followed by another losing season with no playoffs while chasing beloved players like Matt Hasselbeck and Bobby Engram out of town in favor of Tavaris Jackson?

It's a process, everything builds on itself and in my opinion that playoff win against the Saints was the first major building block. Now you don't have to agree with me... and frankly I don't really care. But if you think that things only changed midway through 2012 you're deluding yourself. That's when they became "contenders"... but you have to walk before you run and for my money Beastquake was this teams first steps.

If those were the first steps, then they must have been into quick sand because all we did the next game was to get our asses handed to us by a team we'd already beaten in their place that very season. So much for going out and winning one for the Gipper.

Bottom line is that without Russell Wilson, who came onto the scene two seasons after Beast Quake, we are only marginally better than the .500ish teams of the two prior seasons. 9-7 instead of 7-9. Tweedle Dee vs. Tweedle Da. That is unless you don't think a Russell vs. TJack exchange is worth 4 games.

That's not to disrespect Beast Quake. It was the best single running play I've ever seen. I just don't feel that it had a tangible effect on the composition of our current World Champs. IMO b**** slapping the Niners on national TV had a larger emotional impact than Beast Quake

Beastrun was huge, but did not set up anything for our future. I think you can argue two starts, our close loss to the Falcons, and when PC told the team, mid way through 2013(not 2012 as Kalibane has quoted) to step it up.
And we did!

So for me that is the milestone. Everything else should be looked as stepping stones and pieces of the puzzle that were needed. The TEAM became united and became a contender mid 2013 IMO.

[monkey]

Eagle please. If that's the case then this team was Jim Mora's team the moment he became head coach. But the truth of the matter is this was NEVER Jim Mora's team because the team never bought in.

It's possible that we're wrong about the significance of the plays we're talking about, but it's impossible that this team became Pete's team the day he was hired. This team became Pete's team when the majority of players and team leaders bought in and believed in his vision.

Exactly.
There's a reason that the players all slap the "ALL IN" sign on the way out to practices and games.
Yes, Eaglehawk, the day Pete was hired, was the day the players were "playing for Pete" in a literal sense.
But there were moments along the way that brought them from just playing to "all in".

[monkey]

OK, so the Beast Quake run resulted in a playoff win. What was it followed by? A drubbing on the road. What was it preceded by? A 7-9 regular season. What was our season like the following year? 7-9, missed the playoffs. In the year after that, in 2012, what was our mid season W/L record? 4-4.

I'm sorry, but as great as that run was, it didn't kick start anything. This team didn't hit its stride until the season Russell Wilson became the starting quarterback and until they took the training wheels off of him. Before mid season of 2012, we were a .500ish team, and always would have been had we not drafted Russell and had Pete not had the balls to make him our starting quarterback. As great a job Pete has done at building this defense, the single most important thing he's done for the success of this franchise was drafting and starting Russell Wilson.

I agree with RIv here.
Though I understand Kal's point, and I do agree with him that the Beastquake definitely set the tone for how the team would be expected to play (tough!), it wasn't until they got Wilson that the team started winning more than losing.
You can sell the all in mentality till the cows come home, and it is important, but unless you have a QB who can actually carry that out, you're just whistling Dixie.
IMO you guys are both right. (How's that for riding the fence? LOL!)

For myself, as most of you will remember, I was VERY critical of Pete right up until I saw Wilson in training camp. The reason is that, I knew that no matter how good our defense was, we weren't going to be any better than a 7-9 also ran with Jackson at the helm of the offense. This is why I still get SO irritated with people saying that we won because of our defense...pure BULLSHITE!! Without Wilson we're not winning any Super Bowls, period, end of story!

Once Pete and John landed Russell, and I saw him live at TC, I KNEW we'd win the Super Bowl with him eventually, which is why at the beginning of this season I picked them to win it all.
Russell Wilson was in fact, the final (and most important) piece to the puzzle, and without him, we're still one of the handful of teams that have never won a Super Bowl.

[kalibane]

*sigh* Eagle.. you're in such a rush to think you have an ally in this discussion and beat me down that you aren't reading. The reference to 2012 was in response to River who cited midway through the season when they took the reins off Russell Wilson. That was the 2012 season. Now according to you the change came the second Pete Carroll became the head coach which is ludicrous so just go sit down and believe what you want to believe and let River and I have an actual discussion.

Now River,

Your mistake as far as I'm concerned is you think progress is respresented on a graph where the line shows a steady incline. That's not how it works, especially not when you're charting something that has so many moving parts. Most of the time you take a step or two forward then a half step or two back before moving forward again. Once you're wildly successful the graph may more closely resemble what you think it should but that isn't how it looks at the start. Take Apple (the computer company) for instance, they first made an impact with the Apple II series, but they followed that up with the Apple Lisa (look it up) which was an unmitigated disaster, until the Macintosh came out but took more steps back after that with stuff like Mac Portable. They made a comeback with the powerPC chip (kind of) but again couldn't keep up with PC's, things like Newton were unmitigated failures, then they came back and got a real hold with the first IMacs, but followed that up with the disaster called the Cube. Then they released the Ipod and the Intell based IMacs and it's been uphill ever since.

Similarly I consider the Saints win the Apple IIe of the Pete Carroll Seahawks. Now maybe the Bears game was the Apple Lisa and the next season was a lot of corporate restructuring as the roster was turned over by nearly 50%. But that win against the Saints gave the players, the fans, the media and most importantly Paul Allen faith, or at least leeway to allow Pete to keep doing things his way, that his vision had credibility. Russell Wilson may be the Ipod in this scenario and I wouldn't argue that. You're exactly right that was when the Seahawks became contenders. But there is no Ipod without the Apple IIe laying the ground work.

Now you may have a philisophical difference where you think the Ipod (Russell Wilson) is still a bigger deal than the Apple IIe (Saints win) then that's fine. We just disagree on a philisophical level. But if you think that Saints win meant nothing regarding the eventual success of the Pete Carroll Seahawks then I don't think you're being very realistic. Who's to say Caroll isn't fired after a second 7-9 season in 2011 if they are drubbed by the Saints in the playoffs? Beating the Saints allowed people to trust the process when Carroll and Schneider were building a roster in a completely unconventional way.