Geno

[RiverDog]

Good point about Russ in bad weather . I sat at the Clink in 2013 and watched Russ personally waste a 4 pick of Carson Palmer effort by the LOB by completing 44 % of his passes , missing wide open receivers . The offense wasted a Malcolm Butler int to the AZ 5. The indignity was complete when Hauchka banged a 22 yard FG off the upright . The last ditch drive ended with the famous forearm fumble as Baldwin laid out to try to catch another bad throw and the ball
Bounced off either the turf or his arm to an Az defender . Far worse performance than Geno last night .

And I really don’t need a lecture about my opinion of Geno or Russ or any other player . We have 5 losses . 3 were started by Russ and his stat line this year was misleading . Our time of possession was less than half our opponents . It was feast or famine . Russ lost the Titans game as much with his inability to do anything other than a blown coverage on 3rd and 12 to swain the entire second half . And I seem to remember you being extremely critical of his brutal run backwards in overtime with homer wide open 3 and out after air mailing the ball the first 2 downs .

We were only in overtime vs the Rams BECAUSE of Geno . That’s the game Russ bounced the ball off the defensive linemen’s helmet on first down at midfield , spun out backwards and probably danced around for 6 seconds before being sacked for a 12 yard loss . The play he’s injured on he overthrew a wide open
Lockett for a TD. Vs the Vikes in a scoreless second half he misses a wide open
Swain , another overthrow due to short arming the throw to avoid getting hammered . I said going into the season my biggest question was Russ Wilson . I didn’t get my answer other than he was less consistent so far this year. I stand by what I said about Geno . He looks like a decent backup to me . If Meyers who apparently can do no wrong despite being a factor in almost every loss hits 2 makeable FGs Geno got the team in position for we win an ugly sloppy game . Against the Steelers he hung in the pocket and took some tremendous shots while delivering the ball . As far as the Saints pedestrian defense it’s one of the top scoring defenses in the league so not sure what you mean . I’m not sure exactly why our defense is much less pedestrian but I’d guess we’ve been moving the ball well enough to have a little better time of possession and the ability to at least change field position . Haven’t looked at the stats so not sure . Just a guess . My guess Russ is done after this year in Seattle anyway . Geno isn’t a replacement obviously but with no draft picks we’re not getting his replacement anytime soon unless there’s another Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th. But I could see him as a placeholder . Curious to see Russ timetable after Schottie brings in Lawrence and carves us up like a Christmas turkey .

I don't mind you defending your opinion of Geno, for the love of God, please stop with the excuses! Talking up Jameis Winston, an at best average quarterback that was a bust in his first gig, and dissing Russell Wilson, a top 5 QB by almost any measure and a HOF'er by some people's estimate, just to make Geno not look so bad in contrast is absurd.

As far as what the future holds for us and Geno goes, he still has one more start to go before his audition is complete, but at this point, I haven't seen anything to make me think that he'd even be a suitable interim QB in the event that Russell isn't with us next season and we don't trade for or draft an heir apparent. If we're going to have to start over from scratch, I'd rather give a rookie FA QB a shot than trot Geno out there again. There's a reason why he didn't catch on with three other teams. His career completion percentage is 58.2% and he's thrown more INT's than TD's. Snaps in an NFL game are limited, I don't want to waste any on a player that's already had his chance.

So we'll see how he does this Sunday. Unless Russell has a set back in his recovery or gets injured again, it will be Geno's last, best chance to make a statement. He'll be at home and going up against the 30th ranked defense and so far, the weather forecast looks decent. Even you won't be able to come up with excuses for him if he fails.

[RiverDog]

IMHO, it wasn't Geno Smith who lost this game, it was our porous pass defense allowing 'nawlins extended offensive possessions & our kicker missing 2 FG's. I thought our run defense was ok, despite Kamara's performance. He's going to get his. I just can't remember when the last time we lost 3 home games in a row was. Probably 1992 during the "he who shall not be named" years.

I agree that Geno didn't lose the game, after all, he didn't have any turnovers, but he damn sure didn't win it, either. We had one big play where Metcalf beat his defender and that was it. Geno was 12-22 for 164 yards, half of which came on one play. Some of that was obviously due to the weather and he didn't get much support in the running game, but he certainly didn't do much to help the cause.

All quarterbacks wish for the opportunity to get the game into the 4th quarter with a chance to win it on their last possession. Geno's had that opportunity 3 games in a row now.

FYI you hit the jackpot on your question. The last time the Seahawks lost 3 in a row at home was in 1992, our worst season in franchise history when we went 2-14. I'm not sure if that counts playoff games, though.

[Hawktawk]

As I stated correctly we only got to overtime vs the Rams because Geno came off the 2 for a TD and then directed another scoring drive . His overtime pick was due to a normally reliable receiver getting tripped and falling down . It’s his only pick in 2 starts and that quarter plus vs the Rams . So much for your pick stats .


That was then this is now . He played a really solid game vs Pittsburgh despite being harrassed all night by watt. I counted at least 7 pass attempts that were affected by watt in one way or another . Both ot possessions ended in sacks by watt including the strip sack . How about we accept the Waldron experiment as a failure too. What exactly was the game plan last night ? As you say we had the one big play and the throw was perfect , a thing of beauty and it seems like we ran the ball 2 of 3 times the rest of the night . We can argue all day . The guy whose opinion matters PC says today he’s sticking with Geno . “ he’s managed the games well “ I would agree . As for Russ the same thing goes . That was then and this is now . There’s no question in my mind Russ is a HOF if he quit right now. But from midway through last season he’s been different . The magic isn’t there . That doesn’t have a damn thing to do with Geno but it’s a fact and if you want to tell me where my description of some of his god awful play in critical situations is incorrect have at it . We have now lost 7 of our last 11 home games with fans . 6 were started by Russ . You were raising hell about him after the Titans . Now it’s like you want to argue to argue . You’re putting words in my mouth . I’ll say it once more and be done . Geno is a decent backup and can win if everyone else does their job . Russ has been all world for a decade but he’s slipping , seeing the rush instead of the field in critical situations . I’ve still got questions that aren’t answered about him going forward . It’s my opinion . I stand by it 100%as for giving Meyer the benefit of the doubt his xp miss against the Titans kept it a 2 score game . He’s missed 4 of 10 FG, 3 were under 50 including missing the 35 yarder at the half vs the Rams wasting a brilliant 2 minute drive by Wilson . Instead of getting the ball up 10-3 big letdown . It would have been the difference . His 60% accuracy is worst in the league by 10% and he has one of the higher cap hits among kickers I have heard . He’s as big a reason for our record as anyone .

[c_hawkbob]

Geno had every chance to be the hero last night, and any single one of them could have won us the game, but he just wasn't up to it. It looked on a couple of those plays that he was looking for a place to go down rather than make a play. For as much experience as he's got he sure looked like a rookie on several plays.

[RiverDog]

As I stated correctly we only got to overtime vs the Rams because Geno came off the 2 for a TD and then directed another scoring drive . His overtime pick was due to a normally reliable receiver getting tripped and falling down . It’s his only pick in 2 starts and that quarter plus vs the Rams . So much for your pick stats.

As you stated what correctly? We didn't get into overtime vs. the Rams. The final score was 26-17. It was Pittsburgh that we went to overtime with. Geno led us to a TD when the Rams were playing to stop the big play, but I'll give you that he did play well in that series. And my "pick stats" were of Geno's career, not in the 2+ games that you're trying to use to support your case.

That was then this is now . He played a really solid game vs Pittsburgh despite being harrassed all night by watt. I counted at least 7 pass attempts that were affected by watt in one way or another . Both ot possessions ended in sacks by watt including the strip sack . How about we accept the Waldron experiment as a failure too. What exactly was the game plan last night ? As you say we had the one big play and the throw was perfect , a thing of beauty and it seems like we ran the ball 2 of 3 times the rest of the night . We can argue all day . The guy whose opinion matters PC says today he’s sticking with Geno . “ he’s managed the games well “ I would agree . As for Russ the same thing goes . That was then and this is now . There’s no question in my mind Russ is a HOF if he quit right now. But from midway through last season he’s been different . The magic isn’t there . That doesn’t have a damn thing to do with Geno but it’s a fact and if you want to tell me where my description of some of his god awful play in critical situations is incorrect have at it . We have now lost 7 of our last 11 home games with fans . 6 were started by Russ . You were raising hell about him after the Titans . Now it’s like you want to argue to argue . You’re putting words in my mouth . I’ll say it once more and be done . Geno is a decent backup and can win if everyone else does their job . Russ has been all world for a decade but he’s slipping , seeing the rush instead of the field in critical situations . I’ve still got questions that aren’t answered about him going forward . It’s my opinion . I stand by it 100%as for giving Meyer the benefit of the doubt his xp miss against the Titans kept it a 2 score game . He’s missed 4 of 10 FG, 3 were under 50 including missing the 35 yarder at the half vs the Rams wasting a brilliant 2 minute drive by Wilson . Instead of getting the ball up 10-3 big letdown . It would have been the difference . His 60% accuracy is worst in the league by 10% and he has one of the higher cap hits among kickers I have heard . He’s as big a reason for our record as anyone .

My take on Geno's play vs. Pittsburgh is similar to that against the Saints. He wasn't the sole reason that we lost but he could have one it on several occasions. He had a good defensive effort, an above average rushing attack, and two chances to win it in overtime. The strip sack was all on him. He didn't put the ball away when he was scrambling in traffic. Russell must have broken the pocket like that a hundred times and I've never seen him fumble. Geno had two chances to win it in overtime but he didn't, and instead committed a critical turnover that sealed our fate. No quarterback can ask for the chances that Geno was given to win that game.

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I was "raising hell" about Russell. I felt that he was playing below the standard we've come to expect from him, especially in the Titans game, and while I'll stop short of saying that he's "slipping", I do agree that he needs to adjust his game, in particular, his tendency to think he can save every play. And I'm not sure where it is that I put words into your mouth. I called you out for pumping up a very average QB like Winston by inserting an irrelevancy into the discussion in the form of his draft status and your very odd statements about Russell "missing receivers high and wide and bouncing balls off helmets" when in fact he's the 3rd leading QB in completion percentage. I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just characterized what you said as dissing, and I stand by that.

As far as Geno being a "good backup", I'm going to wait one more game before I make that call. Like I said, so far I'm not very impressed.

[Agent 86]

I didn't really read many of the posts, and I am not usually a negative person towards any pro athlete (save for Tre Flowers), but my oh my, Geno Smith showed last night why IMO he shouldn't even be holding a clip board. The sack that pushed the FG back, the 2 sacks in a row on that last drive, and the 2 wasted TO's in the 3rd quarter were unacceptable by a rookie QB, let alone a vet. The fact they ran the ball like 11 times in a row for about 20 yards instead of having Geno throw it tells a story in the faith of him, even given the crappy weather. He has now had 3 chances to lead his team to a win, and he's 0-3. No excuses, you either get the job done or you don't. He got his chance to show he can be a capable back up and win a few games, and has failed to do it. Nothing wrong with that, I am sure Geno is a good teammate and person, he just isn't an NFL calibre QB. There aren't many in this world.

I never understood why teams just have anyone as backup to the most important position in the league. Salary cap, sure. And RW3's durability was probably taken for granted.

Bah, what do I know, armchair QB here. But my goodness, that was painful to watch and I really don't ever want to see Geno play another snap, but I know he will be in there on Sunday against the Jags.

[Hawktawk]

Are you high ? Russ never fumbles when he breaks the pocket . He’s had plenty of fumbles 86 career fumbles in 149 games . Geno had both hands on the ball and maybe the best edge rusher in the league hit him again . Is it genos fault they couldn’t begin to block Watt or protect him last night ? As I said at one point Seattle called 8 straight runs over 2 possessions for a total of 19 yards and 2 punts . Not much anyone could do if they take the ball out of your hands like that . Geno has shown he’s got a very strong and fairly accurate arm if they keep him standing up which they can’t keep either he or Russ standing up. I stand corrected on the Rams game . Point is the same . Russ led us to 3 points in the second half and the offense had 15 yards in that third quarter . Geno put up 10 including the 98 yards . It’s not knowable what would have happened had Russ not been injured but we know his last game vs the Rams he was 11-29 with a pick 6 and Donald missed the second half . It’s not been winning offensive football all year and we’ve now wasted 2 winnable games, 3 or 4 if you throw in Tennessee where it all went to hell. We’ve wasted 2 fairly decent defensive efforts as well. I think we might well lose next week with schottenheimer coaching up Lawrence . He will be a handful. I will say this . I’ve been wrong about Penney . I’ve been waiting to see the guy he was for 2 games 3 years ago and it ain’t happening . Wasted carries last night . He averaged less than 2 ypc but was still getting carries into the third quarter . See ya.

[RiverDog]

Are you high ? Russ never fumbles when he breaks the pocket . He’s had plenty of fumbles 86 career fumbles in 149 games

No, I'm not high. You're being obtuse.

Your 86 fumbles is not only wrong, your citing total fumbles, not lost fumbles. In fact, Russell has fumbled 82 times and has lost just 24 of those over the course of his 149 game career:

https://www.nfl.com/players/russell-wilson/stats/

To put that in perspective, Russell has lost .16 fumbles per game while Tom Brady(.16) and Aaron Rodgers(.17) have lost fumbles at virtually the same rate. But perhaps you can find a dropped interceptions stat for Russell and add it to his total interceptions. Maybe that would shine a better light on Geno. It's worth a try!

I'm done with the Geno examination. Although this Sunday's game isn't much more than a glorified preseason game given it's between the 1 win Jags and 2 win Hawks, I'll withhold further comment until after the Jags game. I'll be attending in person so I'll get a good look at coverages, etc.

[Hawktawk]

Oh good for you play hard 12. Not saying Geno is a great qb. Saying what Carroll said . He’s an adequate game manager . We will get another game for sure . I hope to be proven more right then wrong regarding the current placeholder .

[RiverDog]

Oh good for you play hard 12. Not saying Geno is a great qb. Saying what Carroll said . He’s an adequate game manager . We will get another game for sure . I hope to be proven more right then wrong regarding the current placeholder .

I just checked the weather forecast for this Sunday in Seattle at kickoff: 54 degrees F, sunny, chance of rain 2%, winds 4 mph. Jacksonville is the 30th ranked defense in the league. No new injuries on Hawk offense.

[Hawktawk]

I didn't really read many of the posts, and I am not usually a negative person towards any pro athlete (save for Tre Flowers), but my oh my, Geno Smith showed last night why IMO he shouldn't even be holding a clip board. The sack that pushed the FG back, the 2 sacks in a row on that last drive, and the 2 wasted TO's in the 3rd quarter were unacceptable by a rookie QB, let alone a vet. The fact they ran the ball like 11 times in a row for about 20 yards instead of having Geno throw it tells a story in the faith of him, even given the crappy weather. He has now had 3 chances to lead his team to a win, and he's 0-3. No excuses, you either get the job done or you don't. He got his chance to show he can be a capable back up and win a few games, and has failed to do it. Nothing wrong with that, I am sure Geno is a good teammate and person, he just isn't an NFL calibre QB. There aren't many in this world.

I never understood why teams just have anyone as backup to the most important position in the league. Salary cap, sure. And RW3's durability was probably taken for granted.

Bah, what do I know, armchair QB here. But my goodness, that was painful to watch and I really don't ever want to see Geno play another snap, but I know he will be in there on Sunday against the Jags.

Wow . I’m not saying Geno played a great game but that’s too much . Now sacks and timeouts make you a bad qb? Timeouts have been a problem Carroll’s entire tenure Unless I’m mistaken Russ has been sacked more times than any man in history over his first 9 seasons by quite a lot . That despite being extremely mobile . This year alone he ended the Titans game with a minus 11 yard sack . He held the ball 6 seconds and took a 12 yard sack on 2nd and 10 at midfield In the Rams game .


And this is more for RD since he’s worked up about Geno getting stripped . 86 fumbles is 86 fumbles . Once it hits the ground it’s luck of the bounce . I recall 2 significant playoff fumbles by Russ . The strip by Aldon Smith in the 13 NFC title game . The Lob held Frisco to 3 there and we all know what Sherman did at the end . The other I remember was the fumble vs the Skins in 12 when lynch swooped down with 1 hand and made quite a nice gain off Wilson’s fumble . Even the greats need luck , need picked up by their team . Im not going to crucify a guy making his 2nd start in 5 years in a monsoon . He didn’t turn it over . If a kicker making lots more than him could kick he’d have won . Hardly the worst backup performance I’ve seen under the circumstances. A bit over the top .

[RiverDog]

Aside from the one pass to Metcalf, Seattle Seahawks quarterback Geno Smith was not good. There was some initial hope that maybe Smith could open up the Seattle offense taking advantage of opportunities over the middle. That has not been the case. He looked like a bad backup quarterback.

https://pacificnwsports.com/seattle-sea ... x8rxL-_g9s

Things have just gone from bad to worse for the Seattle Seahawks without Russell Wilson in action. While Geno Smith has done his best to try and lead the team to victory, he's continued to struggled.

This was showcased on Monday night going up against the New Orleans Saints. Other than a long TD pass to DK Metcalf, Smith was awful and the Saints left town with a 13-10 win.

At this point, Wilson's return can't come soon enough. Seattle is 2-4 and they've lost back-to-back games they really should have won. Plain and simple, Smith is costing Seattle games right now and Wilson is needed back ASAP.

https://www.12up.com/posts/geno-smith-c ... fjxdkq32yh

Smith? Playing his first extended time in 3-1/2 years, he threw an interception when Tyler Lockett fell down on Seattle’s final chance to win down six late to the Rams. In his first start since December 2017 the following week, Smith fumbled on a hit by T.J. Watt in the Seahawks’ end of the field in overtime in Pittsburgh, handing the Steelers the winning field goal. Then Monday night, Smith took two crippling sacks holding onto the ball in the second half. The second pushed Jason Myers into a missed field goal of 53 yards, in a game where the offense scored just three points the game’s final 55 minutes.

Read more at: https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... rylink=cpy

Geno Smith has gotten two real opportunities to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. The first time, in 2013-14 with the Jets, he was extremely bad. In round two, over the past few weeks with the Seahawks, he’s been better than he used to be … but still pretty bad.

After the Saints drove for the go-ahead field goal at the two-minute warning, Smith got a chance to tie or win the game. That drive looked like this:

–Smith pass incomplete to Metcalf

–Smith sacked by Malcolm Jenkins, loss of 8 yards

–Smith sacked by Demario Davis, loss of 10 yards

–Smith pass incomplete to Metcalf

Game over.

Nobody would argue that Cam Newton, at this exact point in time, is an MVP-in-waiting. But he’s almost certainly better than Geno Smith.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... ar-AAPYobd

[NorthHawk]

Those were just some peoples opinions no more valid or not than any of us on this forum.
What Geno's play does show is how much of a game changer Wilson is. With just an average backup QB, our
Offense isn't capable of producing. We can't run and we can't pass without a top notch QB. Some other teams
can, mostly those with good run games and dominating Offensive Lines. We have neither of those, so whoever
replaces Wilson will have to be an exceptional talent given the current roster for us to expect better results.

[RiverDog]

Those were just some peoples opinions no more valid or not than any of us on this forum.
What Geno's play does show is how much of a game changer Wilson is. With just an average backup QB, our
Offense isn't capable of producing. We can't run and we can't pass without a top notch QB. Some other teams
can, mostly those with good run games and dominating Offensive Lines. We have neither of those, so whoever
replaces Wilson will have to be an exceptional talent given the current roster for us to expect better results.

I understand that those are just opinions, but given the discussion, I felt them appropriate. As far as them being any more or less valid than any of ours, it would depend on the journalist vs. the poster. I'm not going to speak for anyone but myself, but guys like Gregg Bell have been in the sports reporting business for decades and I'd suggest that his opinion is probably a little more valid that mine.

I'm not expecting Geno to do well. In one of those articles, it was noted that over the past 6 years, the winning percentage of teams that lost their starting quarterback is .331. But it's preposterous to suggest that he's not costing us games or that his play is acceptable even for a backup.

[Hawktawk]

They are selling copy to the fans most of whom are low information emotional spoiled fans . Saying Geno hung tough won’t sell copy . Carroll said he’s managed the games well. Not that I’m rubber stamping either guy but I’d like to see these writers go play . If taking a sack to end the game makes Geno a terrible backup what did taking a sack to end the Titans game running backwards to the 1 make Russ? A terrible starter ? Other than a blown coverage TD to swain on 3rd and 12 he did nothing that entire second half . On a dry field first game at home with fans in 2 years . That make him bad ? That day ? Yeah. Otherwise It’s a ridiculous suggestion. So let’s use the same criteria on a backup who entered a game against our nemesis on the 2 and launched a “ surgical” according to many pundits TD drive . It’s the only reason we had a chance in the ballgame . I don’t know how you can really fault him much on a pick when the receiver gets tied up and falls down on a timing route . Russ is getting picked there too. Sure he fumbled against the Steelers at the end of a game where he had played well and had directed 3 straight scoring drives at one point including 2 Tds and a FG. And someone explain to me how our offense could not even slow watt at any point . I’ve re watched the strip sack and Geno breaks out which is all he can do . Watt is in traffic behind him and to his right and just launched . Incredible defensive play . Best most disruptive defensive performance against Seattle by one player in a long time except maybe Donald . Maybe . Point being the offense has been average to bad and mostly bad with a HOF qb . You throw in a guy behind that same line with the same scheme , same backs and if he’s not able to win games by himself with a 17 million safety bouncing balls off his face shield and one of the better paid kickers missing 2. Like RD says the Jags have the #30 defense so there’s really no excuse for the offense not to put up some points . I’m hoping Lawrence doesn’t go off . His coach got fired here after Russ biggest season and has had Lawrence playing better all the time . He also knows what Pete likes to do on defense . Hopefully you get us a win RD

[obiken]

Two starts against 2 pedestrian teams and he lost close games. He is a B- backup at best, that's all. He has had to live in RW's world with no weapons, no line and no Running game, and he can't hang, he loses period. I don't love Geno Smith and I don't hate him.

[RiverDog]

Two starts against 2 pedestrian teams and he lost close games. He is a B- backup at best, that's all. He has had to live in RW's world with no weapons, no line and no Running game, and he can't hang, he loses period. I don't love Geno Smith and I don't hate him.

No weapons? What do you call DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett?

Our running game is middle of the road, ranked 16th in rushing yards per game. Although not great, I wouldn't say that we have 'no' running game.

[NorthHawk]

Our run game fails when we need short yardage. Our OL cannot impose their will on other DLs and oddly
enough we don’t seem to be putting much emphasis on it like I would have thought. Look at NO who just traded for
Mark Ingram even though they already have Kamara. They’re putting a special focus on their run game because
Payton knows he has to take the pressure off of Winston.

[RiverDog]

Our run game fails when we need short yardage. Our OL cannot impose their will on other DLs and oddly
enough we don’t seem to be putting much emphasis on it like I would have thought. Look at NO who just traded for
Mark Ingram even though they already have Kamara. They’re putting a special focus on their run game because
Payton knows he has to take the pressure off of Winston.

Even when we had Beast, we were not a good short yardage offense. Part of the reason is that we don't have a big quarterback that can wedge himself between bodies or leap across the line the way Cam Newton does or like Josh Allen tried the other night. I've pointed that out to scores of people that say we should have given the ball to Beast in SB 49.

[Hawktawk]

Hindsight is 20-20 but we should have given the ball to beast on second down on the one with 20 seconds on the clock and a timeout in your pocket. Or at least a read option or something. Lynch averaged 5 YPC for the game and had gotten exactly that after Kearses miracle catch, 5 yards from the 6 on first down. It was actually a bad spot IMO as he was maybe half a yard from scoring. We saw what happened. Shoulda handed off..

[RiverDog]

Hindsight is 20-20 but we should have given the ball to beast on second down on the one with 20 seconds on the clock and a timeout in your pocket. Or at least a read option or something. Lynch averaged 5 YPC for the game and had gotten exactly that after Kearses miracle catch, 5 yards from the 6 on first down. It was actually a bad spot IMO as he was maybe half a yard from scoring. We saw what happened. Shoulda handed off..

The problem with running on that last play was that the Pats had their defense stacked against the run. Calling a pass play was the right decision, just not THAT pass play.

The thinking was that the Hawks wanted to be able to utilize all 4 downs to score. With one timeout left, that meant either passing on 2nd down, run on 3rd, then call a timeout, or run on second, call a timeout, then be forced to pass on 3rd when the Pats would be more likely to suspect a pass as we'd be without a timeout. The basic logic was sound, but not a quick pass over the middle with a short QB and in a crowded space to your #4 receiver. Some sort of timing route to the corner or back of the end zone or a run/pass option would have been the preferred call IMO.

Almost 7 years later and we're still talking about it. Oh, well....

[Aseahawkfan]

Geno Smith is a known quantity. He is performing about as well as to be expected for a backup.

[obiken]

Geno Smith is a known quantity. He is performing about as well as to be expected for a backup.

Not really, a good back up should win close games not turn the ball over. He is a C+ at best. Case Keenum is a good backup and a marginal starter.

[RiverDog]

Geno Smith is a known quantity. He is performing about as well as to be expected for a backup.

Not really, a good back up should win close games not turn the ball over. He is a C+ at best. Case Keenum is a good backup and a marginal starter.

That's not what he said. He didn't say that Geno was a 'good backup', he said that he was performing as one would expect, and I have to agree. Backup quarterbacks lose roughly 2 out of every 3 games when they replace an injured starter, so if Geno wins this Sunday, he's fulfilled that expectation.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not really, a good back up should win close games not turn the ball over. He is a C+ at best. Case Keenum is a good backup and a marginal starter.

Geno isn't a good backup. He's middle of the pack at best.

If backups won close games, they wouldn't be backups. Winning close games is what good starters do like Brady or Rogers and Russell used to do. Losing close games is what mediocre to bad starters do like Cam Newton. It's what separates the good from the bad starters.

But backups? Backups usually lose when facing a starter for another team, especially in close games. Backups do their best when there is no pressure on them, they have a good running game and defense, and don't have to do much to win.

[tarlhawk]

The problem with running on that last play was that the Pats had their defense stacked against the run. Calling a pass play was the right decision, just not THAT pass play.T

I have 3 thoughts on that fateful play.

1) That pass play was called based on post game interviews because our team had only used it once during the season. PC called it right when he said it wasn't the play...it was a failure to execute the play successfully.

2) From what I saw Lockette ran his route well and RW released before seeing the Pat's corner Butler jump the route. The lack of execution was Butlers clear route tp Lockette which enabled him to jump the route as he quickly closed. Our WR Kearse failed to push back Browner into Butlers pursuit with the intent to make him go around Browner giving Lockette more separation...but Browner "seemed" ready and wasn't moved.

3) The first reporter to ask Butler any questions post-game asked how he recognized the play being called enabling him to jump Lockettes route inside. I'm not a Pat's conspiracy guy but Butler said their team had seen this play in their pre-SB practice which is how he recognized the play...they practiced against a play we had only run once before earlier in the season??

[NorthHawk]

I'm sure they practiced it prior to the SB and I highly doubt the Pats would stoop so low as to get a copy of our practices. /sarc

It was simply a bad call at that spot on the field for a number of reasons.
In no particular order:
The Pats Defense was setting up to stop Marshawn so they were clogging the middle.
We had in Wilson the most creative and dangerous QB in the game (pre Mahomes and Jackson) with the ball in his hands.
It was a set play that required no consideration as to how the Defense was set up and relied upon surprise. It took that natural advantage of Wilson at QB out of play.
Had they given Russ a roll out to the wide side of the field he would have had options of running it in himself, fading toward the LoS to lure the DB away from the WR,
or if it went awry, throwing it away.
The play that was called took all of the options away from the QB and gave the Defense the advantage. It was simply boneheaded to call it then.

[Hawktawk]

The Seahawks had run that pick play 3 times in the season and scored a TD each time . Belichick had obviously watched film because Butler said he made him practice coming over the top on that rub route to break up or pick a pass every practice . He kept telling him” you have to get over the top “ Butler said the game was the only time he actually got home. So much to break down on the worst call and worst execution of a play in team history . I watched the play all night post game as I was doing a sport’s talk radio show the next day . For one there was the mistake of huddling after Lynches run to the 1. That allowed the Pats to run on the heavy package in the first place . Then the personnel group indicated pass so they ran Butler in as an extra corner right before the play . And let’s look at personnell. You have Kearse who is supposed to get off of Browner clean and influence Butler that’s problem one and it went about as expected as Browner stoned Kearse . Then you have your #4 receiver at least running the route . Last but not least , actually most important were Russ actions before and after the snap . I saw an interview with Beast who described confusion in the huddle , Russ asking the team if he should change the play. The answer was obvious. Then the execution . Russ looks directly at the right side formation before the snap at which point Butler who is maybe 8 yards in the endzone begins breaking towards the goal before the snap. Lockett comes out of his break and Russ throws a line drive that’s high and in front of Lockett . It’s a ball that should have been on the receivers hip at which point Butler is committing pi or we score . As it was it was inches from a TD . Everyone’s to blame but it’s not reality to say it was a correct call.

[NorthHawk]

It should never have been an option considering the other possibilities of plays to call and the Defense on the field.

[RiverDog]

I'm sure they practiced it prior to the SB and I highly doubt the Pats would stoop so low as to get a copy of our practices. /sarc

It was simply a bad call at that spot on the field for a number of reasons.
In no particular order:
The Pats Defense was setting up to stop Marshawn so they were clogging the middle.
We had in Wilson the most creative and dangerous QB in the game (pre Mahomes and Jackson) with the ball in his hands.
It was a set play that required no consideration as to how the Defense was set up and relied upon surprise. It took that natural advantage of Wilson at QB out of play.
Had they given Russ a roll out to the wide side of the field he would have had options of running it in himself, fading toward the LoS to lure the DB away from the WR,
or if it went awry, throwing it away.
The play that was called took all of the options away from the QB and gave the Defense the advantage. It was simply boneheaded to call it then.

In addition to the points you raised, the other thing I didn't like about that play was throwing over the middle like that, especially with a 5'10" QB. With that many players in such a confined space, it runs the risk of the ball being tipped or batted in the air. I would have much rather seen a timing pass to the corner or something on the back of the end zone.

Browner was the key to stopping that play, His aggressive jam of Kearse is what allowed Butler to jump the route. The expectation was that Browner would retreat a step or two and force Butler to have to take a step around him.

[Hawktawk]

It’s is a terrible throw . That’s the cherry on top of a terrible call. And I wonder what bevfool and defense expert Carrol expected Browner to do? 20’seconds left in the super bowl he’s giving someone a free release ? I heard Brock
Huard break it down and his analysis was with that personnel matchup Russ should have checked out of it . He said for sure when Kearse got jammed he needed to go elsewhere or run or throw it away . Russ is on sound FX on the sidelines saying where did he come from . So he didn’t identify him pre snap . It’s a dark moment in team history and everyone is responsible but ultimately it’s the qb that threw it .

[RiverDog]

It’s is a terrible throw . That’s the cherry on top of a terrible call. And I wonder what bevfool and defense expert Carrol expected Browner to do? 20’seconds left in the super bowl he’s giving someone a free release ? I heard Brock
Huard break it down and his analysis was with that personnel matchup Russ should have checked out of it . He said for sure when Kearse got jammed he needed to go elsewhere or run or throw it away . Russ is on sound FX on the sidelines saying where did he come from . So he didn’t identify him pre snap . It’s a dark moment in team history and everyone is responsible but ultimately it’s the qb that threw it .

I heard Huard in that interview with Huard, and he was exactly right. As he said, if the bench sends in a skunk of a play, it's up to the quarterback to not let it stink. I must have argued with Anthony for months as he was defending Russell on that play by saying that he had zero percent responsibility for that pick and that it was all Bevell's fault.

[obiken]

River, ASeahawksfan and I agree way more nowadays than we ever did. We just have a minor difference of opinion on Geno Smith, don’t think he’s played well, and I don’t think he’s a good back up, he hasn’t won a game since 2016. Having said that, how many NFL teams could win games if their starter goes down? I would say out of 32, maybe three, and I can’t name the three.
PS, Take the Jaguars and the 3 1/2 this week.

[Hawktawk]

We’ve been as successful with Geno as over half Russ starts. The method is different. More boring , more rush attempts , no rocket launch deep shots for whatever reason . But better defense for whatever reason but still a play short . Both QB have taken game ending drive killing sacks . We’re not a good team . As for Geno I’m not gonna say he’s a bum . He was a stud vs the Rams till whatever happened with Lockett . He was known as a pick and turnover machine with the jets with some 3 pick games and 4 picks in 8 passes. That ball to
Lockett after a brilliant quarter of play is his only pick . He had a 99.6 qbr and completed 71% of his passes vs Pittsburgh on the road despite being Watts rag doll all night . In the end it was one more sack but the way Russ was playing and Watt is playing I’m not sure it would have been better . We can’t block the better rushers at all. The only film I haven’t reviewed is the Saints game , obviously his worst game . But in a downpour he threw a dime to DK and put the team in scoring position 3 other times. Sadly the kicker didn’t do his part . But if a backup on the road can’t drive the field with Defenders in his face every play he’s a bad backup. I’m with RD we will have a clearer picture after the next one . All 3 teams Geno faced so far have top defenses . Jags are 30. But I don’t think a conservative grind it out 17 point game is gonna do it . I see Lawrence having a big day with Schottie calling plays . We might need 24-28 points to win .

[RiverDog]

I’m with RD we will have a clearer picture after the next one . All 3 teams Geno faced so far have top defenses . Jags are 30. But I don’t think a conservative grind it out 17 point game is gonna do it . I see Lawrence having a big day with Schottie calling plays . We might need 24-28 points to win .

I'm not so sure we'll have a clear picture. The Jags are one of the worst teams in the league with the 30th ranked defense, it will be a home game, and the weather is going to be ideal. If Geno does well, it's not going to prove much other than he can beat one of the worst teams in football under perfect conditions. If he does another face plant, no excuse you can conjure up will be able to paint a smiley face on him.

[NorthHawk]

One of the problems with our Offense in general is we don't really have an identity and it's even more uncertain with Geno at the helm.
If we look at what the Saints have done is they're putting a big emphasis on running the ball and with a good OL in front of him, Winston
doesn't have to be exceptional, rather he has to be largely mistake free. We don't have that luxury. Carson may be done for the year and
Collins is dinged up so we will have to rely on Travis and DJ to become solid RB's behind our OL. I don't know about you, but I don't have
much faith in that scenario to become consistently successful even when Russ returns.
I think we win this Sunday, but I also think it's closer to a 50/50 chance we lose than many people think.

[Hawktawk]

I can absolutely see this team losing Sunday . And it might be because if Geno or not because of Geno . Qb is always a factor . But I’d sounds like some won’t give him credit if he beats a statistically bad defense but will blame him for losing to a good defense when his kicker has missed multiple times , his line couldn’t block , his OC literally took the ball away for 2 series in a row in a tight game calling 8 runs in a row. To my eyes Genos biggest problem has been killer sacks that have ended the last 2 games . Of course Watt spent more time in our backfield than Collins that one game . Russ had a game ending sack too. Several critical drive killing sacks . We can’t keep either qb standing up and both can move.

It’s a bad team , a bad line when starters go down . I could see this team going 2-15 no matter when Russ comes back .

[tarlhawk]

Well it seems we are now playing for respect and that means winning the games you expect to win and stay close enough to the rest of your opponents so you have a "punchers" chance of winning. I think Ethan Pocic will end up winning at center after a couple games of splitting time. He is on a one year leash and his experience should start showing in how the rest of the OL responds to his communication. For Kyle he learned some valuable experience so can compete next year against a drafted center ( we already have some extra picks ...and sadly our record will earn us some better draft positions in rounds 2-7.)

I thought Blair was the key to getting Adams unleashed for pass rushing duties but maybe Ugo Amadi can be the 3rd safety in SS coverage leaving Adams free to blitz. The opponents cutback run schemes seem to isolate Bobby W...but Jordyn Brooks is starting to flash again and he and our FS Diggs are punishing hitters/tacklers. The weather shouldn't be a factor where we run so much that Geno finds no rhythm. Hope for the best and enjoy the rest!

[Hawktawk]

Losing Blair is huge . Terrible loss. And great point about calling so many runs the qb couldn’t establish a rythm. The only explosive play of the night was a perfect stick in stride to metcalf and then 8 runs in a row then they expect him to crank it up after 2 drives not throwing the ball. It’s a mess right now

[c_hawkbob]

And great point about calling so many runs the qb couldn’t establish a rythm.

Bob Griese did it his entire career. Not a big fan of rhythm, or needing x amount of attempts to find a groove. They said you had to feed Allen Iverson the ball to keep him in the game whereas Jon Stockton only shot when the opportunity presented, AI's career shooting percentage was 42.5%, Stockton's was 51.5.

I can see it for RB's, as defensive teams wear down as a game goes on in the face of a consistent running attack and the payoff increases, but not for a QB.