Russel's finger

[NorthHawk]

We have our bye week following the Jax game on the 31st, and the trading deadline is two days later on the 2nd. It's possible that if we're sitting at 2-6 or even 3-5, our management could pull the plug and start the rebuilding process early by trading some of our more valuable assets, like Michael Dickson, Tyler Lockett, or DK Metcalf for draft picks.

I don't think Pete has the desire at this point in his career for such a major rebuild.

[RiverDog]

We have our bye week following the Jax game on the 31st, and the trading deadline is two days later on the 2nd. It's possible that if we're sitting at 2-6 or even 3-5, our management could pull the plug and start the rebuilding process early by trading some of our more valuable assets, like Michael Dickson, Tyler Lockett, or DK Metcalf for draft picks.

I don't think Pete has the desire at this point in his career for such a major rebuild.

I don't, either, but I don't see him quitting in the middle of a season.

There's going to be some desperate teams out there at the trading deadline that are going to want to push all their chips to the center of the table. It would be a great time for the Hawks to unload some talent. A team like the Raiders, who find themselves in the middle of a very competitive division and that could use a big splash signing after the controversy Gruden is embroiled in, might be more motivated now than they would in the offseason.

[obiken]

I agree river, in fact [*]I see Pete Carroll going the other direction, trading pics or less valuable players as a package deal to get a superstar that might make a difference. I think we both agree that the off-season this year for the Seahawks will probably be the most critical and most interesting we’ve ever had is Seahawk fans.

[RiverDog]

I think we both agree that the off-season this year for the Seahawks will probably be the most critical and most interesting we’ve ever had is Seahawk fans.

After our playoff loss to the Rams last January, I said that this season would be a 'fork in the road' for me, that if we didn't improve from what we've seen over the past 7 seasons, that I'd be advocating for some big changes. Sadly, it looks like that's exactly what's going to happen with our team.

[NorthHawk]

I don't, either, but I don't see him quitting in the middle of a season.

I didn't mean to imply quitting during the season, rather leave after this year.

[obiken]

After our playoff loss to the Rams last January, I said that this season would be a 'fork in the road' for me, that if we didn't improve from what we've seen over the past 7 seasons, that I'd be advocating for some big changes. Sadly, it looks like that's exactly what's going to happen with our team.

You and I have been big supporters of Ken Norton, now we just cannot be, so minimally he is gone. However, its not all his fault. Pete's drafting has been horrible, and the JA trade is a bust. Moreover, Bobby is running out of steam, very few MLB are productive after 10 years, and BW only made 4 tackles against the Rams, and he is the only star we have on defense. Worst case scenario, either Pete, or RW are gone next year. I don't see PC quitting, and Russ is a nice guy, but I think he is done with Pete. Unlike Rodgers he is NOT passive-aggressive, he is just passive, so the divorce will be hard, Its like two people that love each other that realize the marriage is over. So, do you rebuild with PC and no Russ, or dump Pete and continue with Russ for 5 years and fix our problems? I would choose the latter. However, Head coaches dont grow on trees, and getting a guy that is better than Pete at just X's and O's is 50-50 at best. Without some luck I think it gets worse in the next 3 years not better. As always, I would rather be wrong than right on this.

So question, IF it was not for his new problems would you trade RW for Deshaun Watson, yeah I would do it in a heartbeat, but now I dont know, its a close call. A 26 year old phenom vs OUR guy who will be 33 in November. WE have seen the best FB that RW has, DW not even close. However, no doubt, that is a hypothetical from hell.

[RiverDog]

So question, IF it was not for his new problems would you trade RW for Deshaun Watson, yeah I would do it in a heartbeat, but now I dont know, its a close call. A 26 year old phenom vs OUR guy who will be 33 in November. WE have seen the best FB that RW has, DW not even close. However, no doubt, that is a hypothetical from hell.

That's a big 'if' with regard to Watson and his legal problems. You said it, it's a hypothetical from hell. But to answer your question, no, I would not bite on a straight up trade Russell for Watson, not at this point. I'd rather try to snag a couple of #1's from someone, use them to grab our next QBOTF.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't know that any offseason is going to be that interesting until Pete is gone. Pete and John aren't managing the team very well. We have a lot of talent in a few areas, but the defense has fallen into the gutter. They aren't getting anything close to a good defensive unit back on the field. This is a backup defense with a few good players and some promising up and coming talent. But we're weak at CB, interior D-line, and we're paying a 17.5 million dollar safety who can't cover well. Bobby Wagner has lost more than a few steps and he's making 18 million a year.

And Pete and John traded away our first round pick for Adams. We keep trading picks for players that don't work. It's a bad way to run a team.

[NorthHawk]

Norton would just be a scapegoat. All of the DCs ran the same Defense from Bradley to Quinn, and now Norton.
The common denominator is Carroll, so it’s his fault like ASF said re drafting and all. Norton may not be a good DC
but the lack of talent doesn’t help.

[RiverDog]

Norton would just be a scapegoat. All of the DCs ran the same Defense from Bradley to Quinn, and now Norton. The common denominator is Carroll, so it’s his fault like ASF said re drafting and all. Norton may not be a good DC but the lack of talent doesn’t help.

Yup. We just got rid of a DC a couple years ago that was supposedly done to fix the problems with the defense. I'm not good with simply firing Norton unless he's followed/preceded by the old man. No more sacrificing virgins to appease the volcano god.

[obiken]

Yup. We just got rid of a DC a couple years ago that was supposedly done to fix the problems with the defense. I'm not good with simply firing Norton unless he's followed/preceded by the old man. No more sacrificing virgins to appease the volcano god.

Hee hee haa thats funny River! I agree but I think he is gone no matter what.

[RiverDog]

Although it might be too late for us to salvage the season, there's some good new about Russell's recovery:

Seahawks QB Russell Wilson (finger) to have pin removed within the next week; has shot at an immediate return from IR, per
@MikeGarafolo

https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status ... reserve%2F

And just to clarify, "immediate return" means in Week 10 vs. Green Bay, and if he does return by then, he'll have missed a total of 3 starts. Still think that 6 weeks is "way too optimistic", Obi?

[NorthHawk]

Sounds like they are targeting week 10 as you said provided the bones have healed properly.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... ell-wilson

[obiken]

Although it might be too late for us to salvage the season, there's some good new about Russell's recovery:

Seahawks QB Russell Wilson (finger) to have pin removed within the next week; has shot at an immediate return from IR, per
@MikeGarafolo

https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status ... reserve%2F

And just to clarify, "immediate return" means in Week 10 vs. Green Bay, and if he does return by then, he'll have missed a total of 3 starts. Still think that 6 weeks is "way too optimistic", Obi?

Maybe Riv, but by then the Rams will be 9-1, Cards 10-0 and Us 2-8?

[RiverDog]

Although it might be too late for us to salvage the season, there's some good new about Russell's recovery:

Seahawks QB Russell Wilson (finger) to have pin removed within the next week; has shot at an immediate return from IR, per
@MikeGarafolo

https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status ... reserve%2F

And just to clarify, "immediate return" means in Week 10 vs. Green Bay, and if he does return by then, he'll have missed a total of 3 starts. Still think that 6 weeks is "way too optimistic", Obi?

Maybe Riv, but by then the Rams will be 9-1, Cards 10-0 and Us 2-8?

That wasn't the point, my friend. After the surgery, you said "I am seeing a story tonight that there were complications with the surgery, I think 6 weeks is way too optimistic myself" to which I replied "I'm not sure why you think that 6 weeks is "way too optimistic" when it's the doctors that the 6-8 week timetable hasn't changed. Complications doesn't necessarily mean a longer recovery period.

I'm not trying to rub your nose in it as we all make misjudgments from time to time. I'm just trying to get you to acknowledge that you missed one, perhaps poke a little fun at you .

[NorthHawk]

Wilson seems to be one of the better healers in the NFL, so he may be ready to play earlier than expected. That being said,
it might be a blessing that we have the bye week when it is to give him that extra week of healing that he might not have
got if the bye was at another time.

[RiverDog]

Wilson seems to be one of the better healers in the NFL, so he may be ready to play earlier than expected. That being said,
it might be a blessing that we have the bye week when it is to give him that extra week of healing that he might not have
got if the bye was at another time.

One of the things I worry about is Russell's determination to get back on the field. In most situations, a burning desire to play the game...as Pete Rose said when he was quoted as saying that he'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit just to play the game...having that kind of drive is beneficial. But can Russell be objective enough to admit to himself and his coaches if he's not ready? Can he give his doctors an accurate appraisal of how much his finger hurts?

[obiken]

I'm not trying to rub your nose in it as we all make misjudgments from time to time. I'm just trying to get you to acknowledge that you missed one, perhaps poke a little fun at you .

Okay River, I was wrong! IF he can get back early I am happy to be wrong, I just think they could rush this and end up with a more serious injury. But yeah, its not like teams are going to say to themselves hey man we have to go after his finger!

[RiverDog]

I'm not trying to rub your nose in it as we all make misjudgments from time to time. I'm just trying to get you to acknowledge that you missed one, perhaps poke a little fun at you .

Okay River, I was wrong! IF he can get back early I am happy to be wrong, I just think they could rush this and end up with a more serious injury. But yeah, its not like teams are going to say to themselves hey man we have to go after his finger!

Way to man up, Obi!

Russell's injury was a fluke and it is extremely unlikely that he'd be put into a position where his finger would be subject to re-injury. It's not like he's a lineman where every play he's using his hands to wart off an opponent. He's getting the best possible medical care so if he can demonstrate to the doctors that he's ready, I'm good with him coming back even if we lose the next two games and are essentially out of the hunt.

[Hawktawk]

Im curious how Russ handles this. Curious how the FO handles it. Will Russ who has made some critical comments about the protection and got his finger broken because the best DT ever collapsed the pocket for the zillionth time want to rush back? what if Geno rises up and is running the table? Does the FO try to rush him back?( No chance but we can dream)what if he's horrible and the team is like 4-7? Does Russ come in to mop up and get hit too much or does he hold out for a trade in the offseason? How about we are 500?

Frankly I'm steeling myself for disaster, a return at least temporarily to the bad old days and a likely changing of the guard. Jody's got enough dough to buyout Schneider too. But I really dont know what to expect. Was Geno fools gold Thursday or is he capable of sustaining what he had those 2 drives? I came into the season saying Russ was the biggest question mark and quite frankly in my mind it wasn't answered even before he got hurt. His personal QBR was stellar but it was as hollow as the 12-4 last year IMO with the lowest TOP in the league and an inability to grind out sustained drives. Thursday he followed up bouncing it off a defensive players helmet with a 12 yard sack. I'm sure it would have balanced out but we will never know. He's always turned it around before. He's done it his way and created more highlight reels than any QB in my lifetime. Mainly I pray for his health. Not just his finger but his body, his brain. Dude has taken a pounding.

Now the ? is Geno Smith plus whether the rest of the team can step up.

I wrote this a long time ago, Right after the Rams game. Its prophetic in hindsight.
I had a fellow forum member question me about why Russ coming back early didn't prove he wasn't checked out......Hindsight is 2020 but I sensed it a month before it even happened. It was all about him, he didn't give a damn about Seattle or Pete or certainly Geno. It was about a made for social media addition to his legacy. Now he went to a "city" where he could win.

[NorthHawk]

Enough already!
You've proved nothing except your obsession with Wilson.
Any athlete that gets to the top of his profession as Wilson did wants to come back sooner than they should.

Every one of them.

It's that competitive nature that makes them as good as they are and drives them to compete.
Wilson didn't "Check out". He's never done that in any game or season in Seattle. Even in his college days at NC when he played his last game before transferring to Wisconsin,
he played his guts out because that's who the man is.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, and not a word about why a head coach would be stupid enough to let a player he knew wasn't 100% or even 90% force his way back into the lineup, making changes to our offense that handicapped the team in order to accommodate him, then allowing him to continue to play even though it was obvious that he was hurting the team's chances to win and that we'd be better off with the back-up. We don't want to talk about that moron of a coach because now that Russell is gone, he's suddenly a wizard.

Like North Hawk said, you have a serious obsession with Russell. He's gone. Time to move on.

[Aseahawkfan]

I believe hawktawk had a mental break when they traded Russ. He has to rationalize Russ being gone or he'll truly lose it and we'll see him as an even bigger Carroll hater if Russ starts doing well in Denver and Seattle tanks. We might see hawktawk truly go insane if Russ is putting up numbers next year while Seattle is racking up losses. This looks like a major inability to accept what happened and a denial phase if the grieving process of Russ being gone for hawktawk.

[Hawktawk]

I believe hawktawk had a mental break when they traded Russ. He has to rationalize Russ being gone or he'll truly lose it and we'll see him as an even bigger Carroll hater if Russ starts doing well in Denver and Seattle tanks. We might see hawktawk truly go insane if Russ is putting up numbers next year while Seattle is racking up losses. This looks like a major inability to accept what happened and a denial phase if the grieving process of Russ being gone for hawktawk.

Again your analysis is laughable. I shared my post and my genuine concern at the time for Russel's health and how i sensed what actually did wind up happening a month after i wrote it . It was in response to a comment by River on another thread suggesting Russ came back to help the team, not for his own personal reasons , that it proved he wasn't checked out. Funny how I can read how Pete sucks all day long but its enough if I respond to someone saying were doomed without Russ, that he wasn't all sweetness and light.. Stop!!!! You sound more manic than me with these wild assertions and rants. Rooting to lose too. I dont get it.

If Russ tears it up ill tip a cap to him. Hes going to a pocket passer guru which he definitely needs to rediscover. Ill have all the admiration in the world. But I've got no problem eating the crow. I've just done the research on Russ last 18 games, I see who Denver has, who we have.

I rate our QB position higher than you and I trust that as great as the player has been the coach has been just as great over these 10 years and hes gonna have a rookie head coach. I've put it out there. But nothings gonna shock me in NFL ball and with the stuff I've dealt with over damn near 63 years if I'm wrong about the Hawks (again) oh well. A couple sportswriters might be wrong too.