Titans game - Week #2

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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:55 am

c_hawkbob wrote:After thinking on it overnight I think our second half collapse may well be attributable, at least in part, to our resting our starters for the entire preseason. "Playing yourself into game shape" is real. It's why there is such a thing as mid season form. Our lines, particularly our defensive line, looked totally gassed in the second half.


Sorry, I'm not buying that. It was over 3 weeks since our last preseason game and we had a regular season game last week. Additionally, it's likely that the Titans managed their preseason similar to how we managed ours as it seemed to be a league wide trend to rest starters during the preseason.

The DL was gassed because the offense kept going 3 and out in the 4th quarter and only 2 first downs in the entire 2nd half. TOP was as lopsided against us as I've ever seen it.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Vegaseahawk » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:03 am

Derrick Henry tossed my prediction in the trash.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:21 am

Vegaseahawk wrote:Derrick Henry tossed my prediction in the trash.

His stats are exactly to my point:
1st half: 13 rushes for 35 yards, 0 TD's = 2.7 YPC
2nd half &OT: 26 carries for 147 yards and 3 TD's = 6.7 YPC

In the second half it looked like our D-linemen were running in wet concrete.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby obiken » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:05 am

c_hawkbob wrote:After thinking on it overnight I think our second half collapse may well be attributable, at least in part, to our resting our starters for the entire preseason. "Playing yourself into game shape" is real. It's why there is such a thing as mid season form. Our lines, particularly our defensive line, looked totally gassed in the second half.


River, Cbob, didnt we have some DLineman out?
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:07 am

Well, we have a 2nd string Center playing in an already weak spot, Shell got dinged up and there is very little quality depth along the OL.
The Titans by contrast have some solid 2nd stringers who can stick with the their identity. We don't seem to have an Offensive identity
at this point, and I don't think we have had one since Marshawn Lynch. So what we saw was their Offense being able to grind us down
while our Offense basically floundered after the half.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:08 am

River, Cbob, didnt we have some DLineman out?


Jarran Reed, for one. That move still burns my ass.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:32 am

obiken wrote:River, Cbob, didnt we have some DLineman out?


Mone was listed as questionable before the game but I don't know off hand if he played or not. We were as healthy going into the game as any team in the league. The biggest name on our injury report was our center, Ethan Pocic. Eskridge and Penny, neither one of whom are starters, were injured.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby obiken » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:14 pm

Okay, but I think Penny is done River, time to call him a bust. I just think we need more players on defense who can make plays other than Bobby Wagner.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby TriCitySam » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:57 pm

As in most losses, you really can't blame one thing or another. Any one or combination could have turned this. As pointed out, Titans were an 11-5 team last year with a beast at RB...AND embarrassed about their performance last week. Agreed the penalties of Metcalf and DJ were hard to take, and some of the play calls in the 2nd half & OT had me scratching my head.

I was at the game, and looking at the lopsided TOP, just knew they were going to keep pounding Henry until our D collapsed, which it did. Two other things were the lack of pressure on Tannehill and - this one I've never gotten - we ALWAYS have plenty of space (like 10-15 yards) in the middle where WR of just about any team run free. I get the scheme, but seems like we could tighten things up.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:37 pm

We'll see how things go. I guess as hawktawk pointed out the Titans are not trash. They are an up and coming contending team with the best RB in the league and a young coach looking to make a name for himself who used to play for Bill B. The guy knows how to push and win.

Who to blame? Sorry, I blame the defense. 30 points should win you a game at home. I don't care how gassed they were. We have a defensive head coach. Defense is supposed to be his strength as is building a defense. He paid a strong safety 17.5 million and a MLB 18 million. If they can't keep the score under 30 points at home, then why are we paying that kind of money? Pete and John are not rebuilding the defense right and it's showing up in the scores early. If it continues, we'll be lucky to make the playoffs.

Pete needs to have far more respect for the D-line and stop screwing around spending big money on a back end safety who can't cover well or take the ball. Until Jamal Adams shows he can cover and get interceptions, that trade and contract is going to eat at me like rats gnawing on something dead.

I blame the defense primarily. Giving up 500 yards and 30 points at home with the crowd backing you is an embarrassment. Pete should be embarrassed he has let the defense become this bad while that is his specialty. Why hire a defensive head coach who forces on his team a conservative run oriented, protect the ball offense when he can't rebuild the defense to prosper with that type of offense? If this doesn't get turned around quick, time to move on and get a coach who can better use our strong pieces right now because our strength is no longer our defense.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:43 pm

obiken wrote:Okay, but I think Penny is done River, time to call him a bust. I just think we need more players on defense who can make plays other than Bobby Wagner.


I don't disagree with you at all, Obi. I've never been a big fan of Penny's.

You're right about Bobby. He had 20 tackles including a sack and a tackle for loss, a monster game by any measure. However, those wide open spots in the middle of the field that are always wide open as Sam eluded to in his comments are part of Bobby's responsibility. I haven't watched enough of the replay to get a sense how much of that was his fault, but I do know that there were a couple of occasions where he didn't seem to get a deep enough drop. Sometimes that dancing up to the LOS feigning a blitz comes at a cost if they don't get back in time to drop into their zone.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:03 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:We'll see how things go. I guess as hawktawk pointed out the Titans are not trash. They are an up and coming contending team with the best RB in the league and a young coach looking to make a name for himself who used to play for Bill B. The guy knows how to push and win.

Who to blame? Sorry, I blame the defense. 30 points should win you a game at home. I don't care how gassed they were. We have a defensive head coach. Defense is supposed to be his strength as is building a defense. He paid a strong safety 17.5 million and a MLB 18 million. If they can't keep the score under 30 points at home, then why are we paying that kind of money? Pete and John are not rebuilding the defense right and it's showing up in the scores early. If it continues, we'll be lucky to make the playoffs.

Pete needs to have far more respect for the D-line and stop screwing around spending big money on a back end safety who can't cover well or take the ball. Until Jamal Adams shows he can cover and get interceptions, that trade and contract is going to eat at me like rats gnawing on something dead.

I blame the defense primarily. Giving up 500 yards and 30 points at home with the crowd backing you is an embarrassment. Pete should be embarrassed he has let the defense become this bad while that is his specialty. Why hire a defensive head coach who forces on his team a conservative run oriented, protect the ball offense when he can't rebuild the defense to prosper with that type of offense? If this doesn't get turned around quick, time to move on and get a coach who can better use our strong pieces right now because our strength is no longer our defense.


It wasn't the defense that failed in OT. After losing the coin toss, they got the ball back for us and put the offense in a position to win it with a FG, but like the last three series in regulation, Russell and the offense went 3 and out. How many OT games have you seen end without the offense even getting on the field? It was Russell missing on two deep shots then taking a sack inside his own one yard line that forced Dickson to quick kick from a short formation that gave the Titans the ball on our own 39, just a couple of yards away from very makeable FG range. Give Dickson an extra 10 yards to punt and it could have resulted in 30 more yards of field position. You can't hang the overtime session on the defense. Hell, in my estimation, Russell should have gotten called for intentional grounding in the end zone which would have ended the game with a walk off safety.

Playing good defense, particularly Pete Ball, requires a ball control, run heavy offense that doesn't put the defense in bad positions. That's one of the things that made the LOB what it was. We didn't do that yesterday, at least not in the 2nd half. Outside of the one play to Swain, the only good thing I can say about our 2nd half offense is that they didn't turn the ball over. It was a total and complete collapse, including the offense. In my best Jim Mora Sr. imitation, WE SUCKED!
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby obiken » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:17 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:We'll see how things go. I guess as hawktawk pointed out the Titans are not trash. They are an up and coming contending team with the best RB in the league and a young coach looking to make a name for himself who used to play for Bill B. The guy knows how to push and win.

Who to blame? Sorry, I blame the defense. 30 points should win you a game at home. I don't care how gassed they were. We have a defensive head coach. Defense is supposed to be his strength as is building a defense. He paid a strong safety 17.5 million and a MLB 18 million. If they can't keep the score under 30 points at home, then why are we paying that kind of money? Pete and John are not rebuilding the defense right and it's showing up in the scores early. If it continues, we'll be lucky to make the playoffs.

Pete needs to have far more respect for the D-line and stop screwing around spending big money on a back end safety who can't cover well or take the ball. Until Jamal Adams shows he can cover and get interceptions, that trade and contract is going to eat at me like rats gnawing on something dead.

I blame the defense primarily. Giving up 500 yards and 30 points at home with the crowd backing you is an embarrassment. Pete should be embarrassed he has let the defense become this bad while that is his specialty. Why hire a defensive head coach who forces on his team a conservative run oriented, protect the ball offense when he can't rebuild the defense to prosper with that type of offense? If this doesn't get turned around quick, time to move on and get a coach who can better use our strong pieces right now because our strength is no longer our defense.


I agree!! I think we also need to give Collins more carries to see if exhibition was a fake or not.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby obiken » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:19 pm

Playing good defense, particularly Pete Ball, requires a ball control, run heavy offense that doesn't put the defense in bad positions. That's one of the things that made the LOB what it was. We didn't do that yesterday, at least not in the 2nd half. Outside of the one play to Swain, the only good thing I can say about our 2nd half offense is that they didn't turn the ball over. It was a total and complete collapse, including the offense. In my best Jim Mora Sr. imitation, WE SUCKED!


Playoffs, Playoffs, we'll be lucky to win a game!
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:37 pm

Playing good defense, particularly Pete Ball, requires a ball control, run heavy offense that doesn't put the defense in bad positions. That's one of the things that made the LOB what it was. We didn't do that yesterday, at least not in the 2nd half. Outside of the one play to Swain, the only good thing I can say about our 2nd half offense is that they didn't turn the ball over. It was a total and complete collapse, including the offense. In my best Jim Mora Sr. imitation, WE SUCKED!


obiken wrote:Playoffs, Playoffs, we'll be lucky to win a game!


That was a different Mora Sr. rant. In response to a question regarding their chances in the playoffs, Mora replied "Playoffs?! Playoffs?! I just want to win a game!"

The Mora rant I was thinking of had to do with his response to the performance of his defense where he said "We sucked!" Mora Sr. was one of my favorite football personalities.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby obiken » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:50 pm

Also River, we need a new DC, I liked Kenny as much as you did but we need a new young guy to put some fire in these guys.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:40 pm

obiken wrote:Also River, we need a new DC, I liked Kenny as much as you did but we need a new young guy to put some fire in these guys.


I don't think Kenny has any trouble putting the fire in his guys. I think we either lack talent or he has trouble diagnosing the offensive formations we're going against and calling the best counter defense.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Agent 86 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:50 pm

Pretty good recap from the same Athletic writer. I obviously agree with the part about a possible switch at RCB next week.

By Michael-Shawn Dugar Sep 20, 2021 31

The Seahawks woke up Monday morning as the last-place team in the NFC West, a reminder that the margin for error in this division is razor thin. Seattle was the first team in the division to lose a game, though all four played one-score games Sunday. The Seahawks rank second in the NFC West in Expected Points Added per play, behind only the Rams, according to RBSDM.com, but all four teams are ranked in the top 10. Seattle is last in the division in defensive EPA, and its rivals all sit in the top half of the league.

The regular season is only two weeks old, so it’s not time to panic as much as it’s time to be on notice. Squandering two-touchdown leads at home in the fourth quarter is disastrous in any circumstance, but doing so while in the league’s toughest division should only increase the level of urgency Seattle plays with in Week 3 against an 0-2 Minnesota team that knows how to give the Seahawks fits. Before we get to the Vikings, though, here are some additional notes and observations after re-watching Seattle’s 33-30 overtime loss to the Titans.

Seattle’s first-half offense was less imaginative Sunday than it was against Indianapolis in Week 1, with not as much misdirection built into the play designs. This changed in the second half, which featured Tyler Lockett and Freddie Swain running pre-snap motion and a few other forms of trickery after the snap to keep the defense on its heels. From a schematic standpoint, the offense in the second half Sunday looked similar to the product from Week 1 against the Colts — the plays just weren’t executed as well on Sunday. On one snap, for example, Lockett simulated a fly-sweep motion across the formation, but he and Russell Wilson appeared to have their wires crossed and the quarterback ended up keeping the ball and losing 3 yards on a broken play.

The play designs weren’t as stale or as stagnant as they appeared watching the game live. The real problem was the execution. Plays designed to stretch the defense horizontally require legitimate blocking from receivers and tight ends, and that didn’t happen in the second half. On a screen pass to Chris Carson for instance, DK Metcalf was flagged for offensive pass interference and holding, though only the former was accepted. On Carson’s third-and-2 run that got stuffed in the third quarter, the right side of the formation just allowed a pair of free rushers a shot to stop Carson in his tracks, forcing a punt. Shane Waldron could have called the best game of his life in the second half, but that doesn’t matter when the players aren’t performing.

That said, the first half of the game felt like it had a lot of ego attached to it offensively. Seattle clearly felt it could line up and just beat the Titans up front, no misdirection required outside of the traditional play-action calls. Missing receiver Dee Eskridge (concussion) may have played a role but Lockett after the Colts game said the goal in this new offense is for the players to be interchangeable, meaning everyone can do a little bit of everything. If that’s the case, then losing one player shouldn’t dramatically impact the scheme.

Gerald Everett had one catch for 3 yards and that was all the production Seattle received from its tight ends in the passing game. That’s going to occasionally be the case in an offense that has Lockett, Metcalf and Carson, especially when Seattle only has seven red-zone snaps. There are only so many targets to go around. But it’s strange that Seattle didn’t try and get the ball in Everett’s hands and allow him to create yards after the catch. This became even more puzzling late in the second half when it became clear the run game wasn’t going to be effective and Metcalf was playing with a gimpy leg (Pete Carroll later revealed Metcalf had knee soreness). Seattle used 12 personnel (two tight ends) on just 12 plays while using 11 personnel (one tight end, three receivers) on 35 of the team’s 52 offensive snaps, according to TruMedia.

Ahead of the game I wrote about the significance of Seattle’s faith in fourth-year cornerback Tre Flowers, the team’s starter on the right side. This gamble was a failure against Tennessee. Flowers gave up four catches for 102 yards, half of that coming on a long ball to Julio Jones in the first half. The No. 1 rule for cornerbacks in the Seahawks’ offense is to cut out explosive plays and that did not happen Sunday.

Seattle believes Flowers is a changed man this year but based on what has transpired through two games, Carroll can’t preach the “Always Compete” mantra in that building if there’s not an open competition for the right cornerback job this week. Sidney Jones and John Reid deserve an opportunity to show what they can do at that spot. This may result in Flowers outperforming them in practice and maintaining the job, and if that’s the case, so be it. But Carroll and his defensive staff should enter Wednesday’s practice as if they do not have a starter at right cornerback and whoever grades out the highest by Friday afternoon should suit up against the Vikings. Through two games of the regular season, Seattle’s roll of the dice at that position is not paying off.

Seattle’s pass-rush did not perform well against Tennessee. Ryan Tannehill faced pressure on 14 of his 45 dropbacks, according to TruMedia. Defensive tackle Kerry Hyder, starting in place of the injured Bryan Mone, led the team with three quarterback hits in 30 pass-rush snaps. Defensive tackle Al Woods was credited with three pressures. None of Seattle’s edge rushers were credited with more than one pressure or QB hit, and Alton Robinson was the only defensive end to record a sack. After Tennessee got bullied by Arizona’s defensive line in Week 1, Seattle was expected to have similar success against a unit that didn’t have left tackle Taylor Lewan on Sunday and lost guard Rodger Saffold to a shoulder injury. Seattle is going to suffer more painful losses if the front line isn’t getting to the QB in obvious passing situations.

“We really thought that we would get more pressure just watching what happened last week,” Carroll said Sunday, “but they did a nice job and we didn’t do as well as we needed to.”

Woods was effective throughout the game. The veteran defender finished with five solo tackles and seven total. He had the only sack that involved actually winning a rep against an offensive lineman (Robinson blew by a tight end and Bobby Wagner was unblocked), notched a tackle for loss in run support and had a tackle for no gain against Henry. The coach’s film will paint a fuller picture, but for the moment it’s safe to say Woods and Wagner were Seattle’s two best defenders on Sunday. Wagner had a franchise-record 20 tackles — a product of Tannehill emphasizing quick, underneath passing — and made plays all over the field. He had a three-play sequence on Tennessee’s first possession in overtime that really jumped out. Wagner recorded a solo stop on Henry after a gain of 6 yards on first down, then he dropped Henry for no gain on the next snap and ended the drive in coverage against receiver Chester Rogers on third down. Hyder and Ford also played well.

Wilson didn’t have much luck throwing in the direction of second-year cornerback Kristian Fulton, who was matched up with Metcalf for a majority of the afternoon. Fulton appeared to be up for all that comes with going against an alpha like Metcalf, who has a tendency to trash talk and get physical with his opponents. This worked in Tennessee’s favor on one occasion in the first half: Metcalf was flagged for holding Fulton on a quick pass to Swain and unnecessarily shoved Fulton into Seattle’s bench, causing a brief skirmish. Metcalf was taken out for the ensuing third-and-14 play, which ended in a sack. Wilson also overthrew Metcalf in the end zone with Fulton in tight coverage in the first half, and it was Fulton in coverage on third-and-3 when Wilson targeted Metcalf up the sideline in the fourth quarter. Rarely do cornerbacks get a “win” against Metcalf in this way but Fulton seemingly did a good job making sure the third-year wideout didn’t kill the Titans outside the numbers, which is why Metcalf averaged just 8.8 yards per reception on 11 targets. On the flip side, credit goes to the staff for moving Metcalf around to get favorable matchups in the middle of the field away from Fulton so he could still play a significant role in the offense.

Seattle’s offensive tackles performed well in pass protection, which makes the late-game loss of right tackle Brandon Shell an issue for the offensive line. Shell has an ankle sprain, the severity of which is not yet known. Jamarco Jones was Shell’s backup on Sunday, though undrafted rookie Jake Curhan should be considered a legitimate candidate to start against the Vikings in the event Shell’s ankle needs time to heal.

“The MRIs were pretty positive for hopes that he’ll be OK,” Carroll said of Shell Monday morning on 710 KIRO-AM radio.

Lockett through two weeks is second in receiving yards (278), fourth in yards per reception (23.1) and eighth among non-running back pass catchers in yards after catch (83), according to TruMedia (these rankings do not include Monday night’s Packers-Lions game). Only the Bucs’ Rob Gronkowski has more receiving touchdowns than Lockett, who is also averaging 6.92 yards after the catch per reception, perhaps the most interesting figure thus far. Despite being a dynamic player with the ball in his hands, Lockett doesn’t accumulate many yards after he catches the ball, often choosing to go down and protect himself from dangerous hits. He’s trying to change that this year, as he demonstrated during his 63-yard touchdown on Sunday. If he becomes more of a YAC threat in Waldron’s offense, that will make his connection with Wilson even harder to stop as the season progresses.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby trents » Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:12 pm

Valid points have been made with regard to too many three and outs by the offense resulting in a gassed defense. We only had a team total of 70 some yards rushing. That won't hack it most games. O Line has to bear a major part of the blame here, along with those stupid penalties. Also, I noticed we got very little return yardage on punts and kickoffs. That element of special teams play needs to get better.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:59 am

trents wrote:Valid points have been made with regard to too many three and outs by the offense resulting in a gassed defense. We only had a team total of 70 some yards rushing. That won't hack it most games. O Line has to bear a major part of the blame here, along with those stupid penalties. Also, I noticed we got very little return yardage on punts and kickoffs. That element of special teams play needs to get better.


I agree about that the special teams performed below par, particularly our kickoff return team, but with the exception of the missed XP, I'm not sure how much of a factor it was in this game. To begin with, you don't expect to get a lot of return yardage. The Titans punted just twice the entire game, once on their first series of the game and once after their first series in OT. Most of Bullock's KO's were touchbacks but there were two that Dallas failed to get to the 20, but neither were killer types. It's pretty hard to blame the special teams for much when our offense ends the game with three straight 3 and outs and the defense gives up over 500 yards of offense.

And on the flip side, our our kick coverage teams did just fine, we didn't have any penalties, which seem to occur so commonly on returns, and our punt team was extremely hamstrung in overtime when Russell took a sack at the one.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:11 am

It's odd that our Kicker misses more XP's than FG's and in this game had he made the XP, it would have forced Tenn to go for 2 and maybe
things might not have even got to OT.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:47 pm

RiverDog wrote:It wasn't the defense that failed in OT. After losing the coin toss, they got the ball back for us and put the offense in a position to win it with a FG, but like the last three series in regulation, Russell and the offense went 3 and out. How many OT games have you seen end without the offense even getting on the field? It was Russell missing on two deep shots then taking a sack inside his own one yard line that forced Dickson to quick kick from a short formation that gave the Titans the ball on our own 39, just a couple of yards away from very makeable FG range. Give Dickson an extra 10 yards to punt and it could have resulted in 30 more yards of field position. You can't hang the overtime session on the defense. Hell, in my estimation, Russell should have gotten called for intentional grounding in the end zone which would have ended the game with a walk off safety.

Playing good defense, particularly Pete Ball, requires a ball control, run heavy offense that doesn't put the defense in bad positions. That's one of the things that made the LOB what it was. We didn't do that yesterday, at least not in the 2nd half. Outside of the one play to Swain, the only good thing I can say about our 2nd half offense is that they didn't turn the ball over. It was a total and complete collapse, including the offense. In my best Jim Mora Sr. imitation, WE SUCKED!


559 yards given up and 33 points at home is game level failure at home.

It doesn't matter when the failure happened. The defense failed on an epic level giving up that many yards and points at home. If that is how they are going to play against every even somewhat decent QB, then we're in trouble.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Uppercut » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:57 pm

Get rid of Flowers

Trade Penny if anyone wants him

Get rid of Norton, too bad they didn't get Gus back

Sign Sherm

Get ADB in as a coach
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:20 pm

The more I analyze this game the less I blame the defense for this loss.Yes they were dreadful at times . And I’m not as complimentary of the officiating as Pete was. Some of the defensive calls were borderline . Most weren’t . But ultimately in the end a defense battered by a back who has battered everyone stopped him and put the ball in the hands of the guy that used to be money . A pre snap decision to go to Lockett who was double covered ignoring DK open at the sticks . Then overthrow DK. Finish it off by pulling it down running backwards to the 1 and being sacked . I don’t blame the defense for the game winning field goal. Even with the TitAns starting on our 40 the fought hard and kept it from being a chip shot.

Did anyone hear the part of Pete’s presser where he called Russ out. “ we needed him to help us there, complete passes and at least change field position “. Well did he ever :idea: it’s as direct a criticism as I’ve ever heard PC level at him
. I worry about Russ . Maybe the hits are piling up but he’s put a bullseye on himself admitting it.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:41 am

Hawktawk wrote:The more I analyze this game the less I blame the defense for this loss.Yes they were dreadful at times . And I’m not as complimentary of the officiating as Pete was. Some of the defensive calls were borderline . Most weren’t . But ultimately in the end a defense battered by a back who has battered everyone stopped him and put the ball in the hands of the guy that used to be money . A pre snap decision to go to Lockett who was double covered ignoring DK open at the sticks . Then overthrow DK. Finish it off by pulling it down running backwards to the 1 and being sacked . I don’t blame the defense for the game winning field goal. Even with the TitAns starting on our 40 the fought hard and kept it from being a chip shot.

Did anyone hear the part of Pete’s presser where he called Russ out. “ we needed him to help us there, complete passes and at least change field position “. Well did he ever :idea: it’s as direct a criticism as I’ve ever heard PC level at him
. I worry about Russ . Maybe the hits are piling up but he’s put a bullseye on himself admitting it.


I agree with most of that except for the take on the officiating. Yes, there were a few questionable calls. I thought the taunting call on Reed was BS, but he really didn't have anything to brag about as the only thing that kept that pass from not being completed was that it was overthrown. He was beat on the play and should have been on his knees thanking the Almighty, not acting like he should be wearing a gold jacket. But we had close calls and incidents that went our way, too, like on the replay of the call at the back of the end zone that wiped a Titan's TD off the board and yielded a 4 point difference. They could have easily said that there wasn't enough evidence to overturn the call. Metcalf was damn lucky he wasn't called for a PF when he started fighting with Fuller. And let's not forget about our last offensive play of the game where they ruled Russell's forward progress down at the one. That should have been called intentional grounding in the end zone and a walk-off safety. We got a big gift on that play.

The loss can be blamed on many things, but officiating wasn't one of them.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:38 am

The officiating was bad, but I think we got the better of the calls if importance is considered.
Those stupid fouls have to end, but Pete's teams are not usually disciplined and I think we are going to have a problem with the new emphasis on
taunting this year.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:06 am

NorthHawk wrote:The officiating was bad, but I think we got the better of the calls if importance is considered. Those stupid fouls have to end, but Pete's teams are not usually disciplined and I think we are going to have a problem with the new emphasis on taunting this year.


Agreed.

I'm still at a loss to explain the taunting call on Reed, but I guess one had to be on the field to have heard what he was saying. There certainly wasn't anything visible that would have justified a taunting call. I'm more pissed at Reed than I am the call. There's no way he should have been celebrating nearly getting burned for a 50 some yard TD pass that he failed to defend.

I haven't seen enough football to tell just how tight the refs are going to apply the new emphasis on taunting. I've heard that spinning the ball on the ground near a defender is going to draw a taunting foul.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:32 am

Whatever Reed said he stared down the receiver and yelled it directly at the guy and I called it before the ref did frankly . Not that I agree but just how the game was being called. DK was awful , lazy not trying to get a foot in early , 2 holds because a physically superior athlete was lazy and grabbed instead of using his feet to get in proper position. PC said he” talked to him” but the comments about Russ are more telling. I think after Russ popped off in the off-season the franchise did what it could to appease him but now it’s put up or shut up. After 6 stellar quarters the second half was more like late last season , hesitant , inaccurate , indecisive . I guess he’s been so good so long we are shocked to see him play like a middle of the pack hack but the sample size is getting bigger in critical moments .

One other question about the game and not sure if it’s been addressed but at the end of the game Seattle had the ball on their 45 . Russ can throw it 60 yards flat footed easily . Why the check down instead of letting him launch a moon pilot like Rodgers does so well. Russ hit the Golden Hail Mary his rookie year . Just did not understand that .
One thing river regarding the grounding no call the official ruled correctly that Russ forward progress was stopped at the 1 and he was dragged Into the end zone . Play over it doesn’t matter what Russ does with the ball at that point . The ref had the right call. Waldron didn’t at all on the last few drives and Wilson’s lack of execution was a huge factor .
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:00 am

It's still early in the season, and Waldron is a first time play caller, so there might be an adjustment phase under pressure situations even if they are philosopically
on the same page. But the OL has to do better if we hope to win consistently. DL, too for that matter.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Uppercut » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:13 am

Titans played the game PC wants to have. Behind early, run the ball alot and win in the 4th
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:58 am

Uppercut wrote:Titans played the game PC wants to have. Behind early, run the ball alot and win in the 4th

Truth bomb. I couldn’t understand how Seattle could basically give up on the run with a 2 score lead twice . Looking at how it went down a few more runs to kill clock the Titans may not have had time to tie the game . Vrabel smoked Carroll like a cheap joint , shut down Wilson , beat us with a QB considered a bust at one time who OUTPLAYED Russ with 2 backup linemen replacing the best 2 O linemen on the Titans roster . Then he brutally trolled Seattle in his presser . Asked about the crowd noise he relied “ at the beginning or at the end “. He’s superior to Carroll at this point and I think it’s only a matter of time till he’s a champion . Belichick may finally have a heathy branch on his tree .m
This was a brutal loss, there is no silver lining . This is a potential confidence killer for Seattle and a boost for their opponents . It reminds me of a ravens game in 2003 when Seattle repeatedly blew large leads or maybe week 4 in 2004 vs the Rams . Seattle had a 17 point lead with a little over 6 minutes to play and suffered a complete collapse to lose in OT. The game would have made them 4-0 had they made one play in the last 6 minutes . They wound up 9-7 and lost at home in the WC to the 8-8 Rams , the rare trifecta of losses to one team . Of course the following year was XL but that 04 team was never right mentally after that loss
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:15 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Whatever Reed said he stared down the receiver and yelled it directly at the guy and I called it before the ref did frankly . Not that I agree but just how the game was being called. DK was awful , lazy not trying to get a foot in early , 2 holds because a physically superior athlete was lazy and grabbed instead of using his feet to get in proper position. PC said he” talked to him” but the comments about Russ are more telling. I think after Russ popped off in the off-season the franchise did what it could to appease him but now it’s put up or shut up. After 6 stellar quarters the second half was more like late last season , hesitant , inaccurate , indecisive . I guess he’s been so good so long we are shocked to see him play like a middle of the pack hack but the sample size is getting bigger in critical moments.


It's hard to tell what the refs were looking at regarding Reed's taunting penalty. I just felt from what I saw was that it was something that they could have easily let go. IMO you're spot on with Metcalf. He's rapidly developing an entitlement attitude and it's hurting the team. I'm not quite on the same page with you regarding Russell/Pete.

Hawktalk wrote:One other question about the game and not sure if it’s been addressed but at the end of the game Seattle had the ball on their 45 . Russ can throw it 60 yards flat footed easily . Why the check down instead of letting him launch a moon pilot like Rodgers does so well. Russ hit the Golden Hail Mary his rookie year . Just did not understand that.


I think you're talking about the end of the first half, but I agree with you. At that point, it was pretty useless to even attempt a Hail Mary. The odds of Russell getting strip sacked and a scoop and score are higher than a Hail Mary that results in a touchdown, which since the clock ran out, was the only scoring possibility if the pass were completed.

Hawktalk wrote:One thing river regarding the grounding no call the official ruled correctly that Russ forward progress was stopped at the 1 and he was dragged Into the end zone . Play over it doesn’t matter what Russ does with the ball at that point . The ref had the right call. Waldron didn’t at all on the last few drives and Wilson’s lack of execution was a huge factor .


I disagree. If Russell had broken free and they called him down at the one, we'd be furious. Had he been tackled, then yes, they should have brought it back out to the one, but the play was still very much alive as there's no such thing as an "in the grasp" rule like used to exist and there was no safety issue like an unabated to the QB situation. It was one more example of Russell's diminished capability to escape sack situations and his refusal to change his style. Sometimes refs are reluctant to call a game ending penalty on one of the league's biggest stars. We got a helluva break.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:32 pm

Seahawks gave up the lead because they don't have the defense they once had. We're going to face a lot of teams, especially in the playoffs, a lot better than the Titans. If we can't stop them on defense while they can stop on us on offense, then we're going to have a lot more games like this.

Fact is Pete and John have let the lines erode either due to failed picks or not putting money in the lines. If your lines don't hold, you won't stop the run or get the run going. Our lines are very weak and teams like the Titans and other such teams are going to own us.

The defense is bad. Been bad for more than a few years now. It doesn't seem to be getting better. It isn't a matter of "blame." The reason Pete ball doesn't work is because Pete is a defensive coach whose philosophy relies on a strong defense he doesn't have any more. He can't go toe to toe with other teams on defense and expect to win. He doesn't have the horses and hasn't rebuilt the defense. I don't think we're a contender again until that happens and I'm not sure Pete can get it done any more.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Agent 86 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:51 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Truth bomb. I couldn’t understand how Seattle could basically give up on the run with a 2 score lead twice . Looking at how it went down a few more runs to kill clock the Titans may not have had time to tie the game . Vrabel smoked Carroll like a cheap joint , shut down Wilson , beat us with a QB considered a bust at one time who OUTPLAYED Russ with 2 backup linemen replacing the best 2 O linemen on the Titans roster . Then he brutally trolled Seattle in his presser . Asked about the crowd noise he relied “ at the beginning or at the end “. He’s superior to Carroll at this point and I think it’s only a matter of time till he’s a champion . Belichick may finally have a heathy branch on his tree .m
This was a brutal loss, there is no silver lining . This is a potential confidence killer for Seattle and a boost for their opponents . It reminds me of a ravens game in 2003 when Seattle repeatedly blew large leads or maybe week 4 in 2004 vs the Rams . Seattle had a 17 point lead with a little over 6 minutes to play and suffered a complete collapse to lose in OT. The game would have made them 4-0 had they made one play in the last 6 minutes . They wound up 9-7 and lost at home in the WC to the 8-8 Rams , the rare trifecta of losses to one team . Of course the following year was XL but that 04 team was never right mentally after that loss


Wow, that is crazy you brought that game up from 2004 against the Rams. I was literally just telling a guy about that game last week over a couple beers. It was my first visit to new stadium, and I distinctly remember that 17 point lead with just over 6 minutes left and being so happy only to see a complete meltdown and losing in OT. And you are right, that team never recovered and ultimately lost at home to the Rams in the playoffs to lose all 3 games against them that year.

Not sure I would put last week on par with that, but I get the relation to how it could possibly effect them.

That game in 2004 still haunts me, thanks for opening up old wounds Hawktawk :lol:
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:47 pm

Yeah sorry that’s crazy it was your first game. :cry: there’s lots of mental scars in my almost 62 year old brain . The earliest was probably the 86 team that started 5-2, lost 4 in a row and flipped a switch blowing everyone else away . That included the donkeys something like 41 to 10 in the kingdome to end 10-6. Then they watched KC defeat the Steelers without scoring on offense , the last of about 4 play in scenarios that all failed and sat home watching the postseason on TV. The giants beat the Broncos in the super bowl. Seattle beat both participants that year . The all pro corner of the Raiders Mike Haynes , one of the teams Seattle drubbed in the stretch I believe made a statement after the brackets were set . “The Seattle Seahawks were the best team in the league at the end of the regular season . It’s very fortunate they aren’t in the tournament “
Indeed I’ll go to my grave believing that was one of the most talented hawks teams ever . Krieg, Largent , John L Nash , green , Bryant , Easley , Jackson , Wyman brown etc etc . Still haunts me. None as much as the ill fated rub route in 49.

But these have been the good old days . We’ve had HOF players, 3 Super Bowls (don’t get me started on XL) a Lombardi and playoffs 9 of the last ten. We’re not Cleveland or Detroit . But the bad losses like last week will sting a long time .
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby TriCitySam » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:58 pm

I think RW played poorly in the 4th and OT, we had open guys didn't find'em. Secondly, not sure who's to blame on the 60 yd TD by Henry. Adams was lined-up as a DE and rushed the passer inside. While he has some freedom, he didn't shift - so I presume Norton called that. Once he ducked inside, there was NO ONE near the line to tackle Henry other than Flowers, and simply got juked bigtime - and that left Diggs who was in the middle to try and get him.....basically had no chance. Henry's fast and a really tough tackle in the open field.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1439724655674232833
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:56 pm

It was bang bang but Adams has to stone that lead blocker . That’s the play . Instead he jumps inside , basically blocks himself , lost contain and gave up the TD. Adams hurt more than he helped frankly . I love the guys attitude and explosiveness but he’s put a bullseye on himself with officials and I fear he may be a penalty machine if he doesn’t temper it.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:53 am

Hawktawk wrote:It was bang bang but Adams has to stone that lead blocker . That’s the play . Instead he jumps inside , basically blocks himself , lost contain and gave up the TD. Adams hurt more than he helped frankly . I love the guys attitude and explosiveness but he’s put a bullseye on himself with officials and I fear he may be a penalty machine if he doesn’t temper it.


That's how I saw that play. Adams was blitzing and despite the fact that it was a first and 10 and not necessarily a passing situation, he completely sold out, did not make his read and diagnose the play as a run, took the inside route to the QB instead of taking on the blocker and forcing Henry to the inside, and continued on his route to the QB. Flowers took a really poor angle and between the two of them, there's a hole big enough to drive a truck through. I didn't see it as being anything unique to Henry's abilities as nearly any NFL running back could have taken that play to the house.

IMO Adams is so focused on making quarterback sacks that he loses focus of the overall responsibility of his position. He's a one trick pony.

As far as Adams' putting a bullseye on himself, I'm lots more worried about Metcalf suffering from that affliction than I am Adams. He doesn't have the mental discipline that would allow him to keep a trash talking DB from distracting him. I can just imagine what a CB like Sherman could do lined up opposite him, and with the increased emphasis on taunting, he's setting himself up. He needs some mentoring from Steve Largent.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby RiverDog » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:24 am

TriCitySam wrote:I think RW played poorly in the 4th and OT, we had open guys didn't find'em.


IMO we got too far away from our running game in the 2nd half at a time when we should have been concentrating on controlling the ball and keeping our defense off the field. The only time in the 2nd half/OT that we ran twice on a 3 down set we made our only first down of the half. I don't know how we got away from it, whether it was Waldron's play calling or Russell checking out of them, but it was a very poor strategy especially when we had a lead, they could see how lopsided TOP was getting, and how long the defense was on the field. It seemed almost like Chip Kelly's style of offense, or at least it produced that result, ie burning out their defense.

It's games like this one that could produce a rub between Pete and Russell. You have to know that he wanted to pound the rock.
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Re: Titans game - Week #2

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:13 am

Getting away from the run game when it's required has happened the last few years, so I'm beginning to wonder if there's something else going on and it may be a lack of confidence
in the OL to get the job done. Both Schottenheimer and now Waldron have done the same thing, so what's the connection? Maybe it's just Waldron this year finding out what his team
is all about, but the feeling is the same for me that something isn't quite right. Perhaps it's Russ influencing the play calling to something he wants to do that influenced both coaches.
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