What Will the 2021 Season Look Like?

[Aseahawkfan]

If it ever came down to a Pete or Russ decision I'd take Russ every time myself, but I don't think it'll go down that way. Unfortunately I think the decision is going to be Pete's and I don't see him firing himself. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe behind the scenes someone is going to make it clear to Pete that he only stays if he works things out with Russ, I just don't see it.

If we traded Russ, we're in full rebuild mode with a 70 year old coach. We would then know for sure no one in the ownership even cares about the team any more. That would be super disheartening. Even if Jody isn't as aware or involved as Paul, you think she would at least have someone look into it enough to know that trading a franchise QB in his prime is basically entering full rebuild mode and you mine as well start a new management team as well. Boy, I hope we're not in that situation. This would never happen if Paul Allen still owned the team.

[obiken]

"If it ever came down to a Pete or Russ decision I'd take Russ every time myself, but I don't think it'll go down that way. Unfortunately I think the decision is going to be Pete's and I don't see him firing himself. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe behind the scenes someone is going to make it clear to Pete that he only stays if he works things out with Russ, I just don't see it."

"If we traded Russ, we're in full rebuild mode with a 70 year old coach. We would then know for sure no one in the ownership even cares about the team any more. That would be super disheartening. Even if Jody isn't as aware or involved as Paul, you think she would at least have someone look into it enough to know that trading a franchise QB in his prime is basically entering full rebuild mode and you mine as well start a new management team as well. Boy, I hope we're not in that situation. This would never happen if Paul Allen still owned the team."

I agree with BOTH of you!!

[RiverDog]

All this talk about Jodi Allen being a hands off owner, not having the intestinal fortitude to make changes when needed, and so on, is all pure speculation. She does not have a track record, no previous management experience we can examine that might give us a hint. All we have is her brother's example, and that's a damn poor reference as she may or may not possess the same traits. We're just going to have to wait and see. Hopefully we'll never come to that fork in the road where a decision is needed.

As far as who I'd take in a rebuild, Russell or Pete, that, too, is a loaded question. What was the result of the previous season? Are we talking about letting Russ walk or trading him, and if we're talking about trading him, for what/who? Do we have another QB ready to go or the assets to acquire one?

At this point, I'm not pleased with either Pete or Russell to the point where I will offer one or both my unequivocal support.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure it's not having the intestinal fortitude to make changes is the correct viewpoint. I think it's more of a don't rock the boat until it's sold is a better term.
With Russell saying Carroll has too much power, it suggests that Paul Allen and Russell Wilson had some type of relationship that isn't there with Jody. That vacuum
is being filled with Carroll and if Jody doesn't want to make big changes, it by default gives Carroll free reign. I think Paul Allen would have asked tough questions
this past year of why we went into Free Agency with little Cap space and only 3 draft picks. He might have asked for Carroll and JS to justify giving up 2 first round
picks, a 3rd round pick and a starting safety for an upgrade at Safety. He might have asked why did they trade up in the previous draft to get an injured player who
wasn't healthy enough to play at all last year. This is all part of being accountable to someone and it doesn't appear that accountability is part of the process today.
I don't blame Jody Allen for this as she probably didn't want to inherit the team the way it happened and is playing the cards she's been dealt to use a Knoxism.

If, after this year Russ still wants out, we will know as he might have to expand his list of teams he would be willing to waive his not trade clause for. Chicago with
Fields is no longer in play, but maybe Las Vegas or the Saints might still be possible but Gruden seems to be impressed with Carr. That would leave the Saints, but
who would play QB for us and what would be the trade compensation and do they have enough to make it worthwhile for us?

[RiverDog]

Honest question: Has anyone seen anything, unsubstantiated rumors or speculation, regarding Paul Allen's direct involvement with football-related issues such as questioning the judgement of the head coach and/or general manager over draft picks, trades, or contract signings? I have never seen anything, even during the Mora year, where Allen questioned the tactics of the head coach/GM.

Allen always reminded me of the owner of the Knights in the movie The Natural, the mysterious guy in the dark room with the window shades pulled.

[Aseahawkfan]

All this talk about Jodi Allen being a hands off owner, not having the intestinal fortitude to make changes when needed, and so on, is all pure speculation. She does not have a track record, no previous management experience we can examine that might give us a hint. All we have is her brother's example, and that's a damn poor reference as she may or may not possess the same traits. We're just going to have to wait and see. Hopefully we'll never come to that fork in the road where a decision is needed.

As far as who I'd take in a rebuild, Russell or Pete, that, too, is a loaded question. What was the result of the previous season? Are we talking about letting Russ walk or trading him, and if we're talking about trading him, for what/who? Do we have another QB ready to go or the assets to acquire one?

At this point, I'm not pleased with either Pete or Russell to the point where I will offer one or both my unequivocal support.

I could care less who doesn't have the sense to see that Russ is the reason we're competitive every year. When you run a professional football team, you don't worry about the fans. You worry about the key components of the team that help you win. A franchise QB gives you more of a chance to win than a head coach, though you stil want a good head coach.

You're one of those odd people that thinks things work other than they do even with no examples to offer. Russ is the essential piece for our competitiveness on a yearly basis. Those folks can't see the value of what he brings statistically and in all aspects of the game shouldn't be within sniffing distance of running a football team. If you don't know at this point after watching football for 50 plus years that a franchise QB like Russell is the difference between real competition for a Super Bowl and being a yearly non-contender, then you haven't learned much about the game. I find that surprising.

[RiverDog]

All this talk about Jodi Allen being a hands off owner, not having the intestinal fortitude to make changes when needed, and so on, is all pure speculation. She does not have a track record, no previous management experience we can examine that might give us a hint. All we have is her brother's example, and that's a damn poor reference as she may or may not possess the same traits. We're just going to have to wait and see. Hopefully we'll never come to that fork in the road where a decision is needed.

As far as who I'd take in a rebuild, Russell or Pete, that, too, is a loaded question. What was the result of the previous season? Are we talking about letting Russ walk or trading him, and if we're talking about trading him, for what/who? Do we have another QB ready to go or the assets to acquire one?

At this point, I'm not pleased with either Pete or Russell to the point where I will offer one or both my unequivocal support.

I could care less who doesn't have the sense to see that Russ is the reason we're competitive every year. When you run a professional football team, you don't worry about the fans. You worry about the key components of the team that help you win. A franchise QB gives you more of a chance to win than a head coach, though you stil want a good head coach.

You're one of those odd people that thinks things work other than they do even with no examples to offer. Russ is the essential piece for our competitiveness on a yearly basis. Those folks can't see the value of what he brings statistically and in all aspects of the game shouldn't be within sniffing distance of running a football team. If you don't know at this point after watching football for 50 plus years that a franchise QB like Russell is the difference between real competition for a Super Bowl and being a yearly non-contender, then you haven't learned much about the game. I find that surprising.

And you have the tendency to read into another person's remarks thoughts that were not expressed. I didn't say that I wanted to trade Russell and/or fire Pete. What I said was that I am not giving them my blind, unequivocal support.

[Aseahawkfan]

And you have the tendency to read into another person's remarks thoughts that were not expressed. I didn't say that I wanted to trade Russell and/or fire Pete. What I said was that I am not giving them my blind, unequivocal support.

I have no idea what that means because no one should give their blind unequivocal support to anyone or anything.

It just sounds to me like you're ok trading Russell if the price is "right", but no one really knows what the right price would be. Russell is the first bonafide elite QB in his prime Seattle has ever had. Dave Krieg and Matt Hasselbeck were good, but not elite. Fans have been waiting since the creation of the franchise for an elite QB like Russell Wilson. He's a bonafide top 5 QB in the league right now and one of the legitimate faces of the league now that the old timers have retired.

If we traded Russell, every Seahawks forum would be filled with threads about finding the next QB. Anyone not as good as Russell would be viewed as insufficient.

It makes zero sense regardless of "loyalty to Russ" to trade an elite franchise QB for really any reason because all you'll be doing with any draft picks you get it is trying to draft the next elite franchise QB with an extremely low chance of finding that person. At any given time in the NFL, there are maybe 5 to 7 QBs that put your team in position for the playoffs on a yearly basis and we have that level of QB. Why the hell would we trade or let that guy walk? It would be nutso.

If we didn't get lucky and find another elite franchise QB within 2 years, the entire Seattle fan base would probably be so pissed off at management Pete and John might follow, not to mention if Jodi Allen doesn't care about the team she might be inclined to adios the team. Why not? They're in the dumpster without an elite franchise QB.

Trading Russell Wilson would be the NFL equivalent of a suicide trade with the hopes for a miracle find of a new Russell Wilson in the draft, even though it took us 36 years to find Russell Wilson. It's not something I even understand thinking about. It would like the Indy Colts trading Peyton in his prime. Like the Patriots trading Brady in his prime. Like the Packers trading Favre or Rodgers in their prime. Like 49ers trading Montana in his prime. Or the Chiefs talking about trading Patrick Mahomes.

It's a crazy idea. Right now Russell Wilson is the difference between mediocrity or worse and a yearly trip to the playoffs. For all his faults and all the complaints from the fans, they would find out the hard way that Russell does way, way, way, way more good for this team to put them in a position to win than he takes away.

[RiverDog]

And you have the tendency to read into another person's remarks thoughts that were not expressed. I didn't say that I wanted to trade Russell and/or fire Pete. What I said was that I am not giving them my blind, unequivocal support.

I have no idea what that means because no one should give their blind unequivocal support to anyone or anything.

They shouldn't, but the impression I'm being given is that some people in here do give them their unequivocal support. I said that to help delineate the difference between my attitude and that of some of my fellow Hawk fans.

It just sounds to me like you're ok trading Russell if the price is "right", but no one really knows what the right price would be.

What I have said is that I am not OK with trading Russell this season. I even went so far as to say specifically that I was not OK with the outrageous offer that the Bears were supposedly ready to make. I don't know how much more clear I can be on this subject.

All I have said is that my patience is wearing thin, that I want to see some sort of change in the current paradigm this season. Depending on the results of this season, I might or might not be open to trading Russell and/or fire Pete. I am not putting a tangible threshold on that result, like we have to go to the NFCCG or we have to go to the SB. We'll see how I feel about it towards the end of this season.

IMO we have not been a credible SB contender after having been one for 3 straight seasons in 2012, 2013, and 2014. We have played just well enough to win a 4 team division and/or make the playoffs. That kind of performance might satisfy a Browns, Jets, or Lions fan, but it doesn't satisfy me. We have not been in the top 25% or so of teams that are credible threats to go to the SB for going on 7 years.

If you're happy with simply being a playoff participant or winning a division, then that's fine with me. I do not expect you or anyone else to share my expectations.

[obiken]

Honest question: Has anyone seen anything, unsubstantiated rumors or speculation, regarding Paul Allen's direct involvement with football-related issues such as questioning the judgement of the head coach and/or general manager over draft picks, trades, or contract signings? I have never seen anything, even during the Mora year, where Allen questioned the tactics of the head coach/GM.

Allen always reminded me of the owner of the Knights in the movie The Natural, the mysterious guy in the dark room with the window shades pulled.

Wow thats a little extreme! I think Allen loved the Hawks and it took him a while to get past Whittsitt and even longer to get a winning set in J and P. I really think IF he were alive this whole Pete vs Russ thing would have lasted ONE day, period!

[RiverDog]

Honest question: Has anyone seen anything, unsubstantiated rumors or speculation, regarding Paul Allen's direct involvement with football-related issues such as questioning the judgement of the head coach and/or general manager over draft picks, trades, or contract signings? I have never seen anything, even during the Mora year, where Allen questioned the tactics of the head coach/GM.

Allen always reminded me of the owner of the Knights in the movie The Natural, the mysterious guy in the dark room with the window shades pulled.

Wow thats a little extreme! I think Allen loved the Hawks and it took him a while to get past Whittsitt and even longer to get a winning set in J and P. I really think IF he were alive this whole Pete vs Russ thing would have lasted ONE day, period!

You're just speculating about what PA would have done with the Pete vs. Russ thing. We have no previous example to draw our opinions from.

Actually I meant the analogy of the Knights owner in The Natural as a compliment. PA was the exact opposite of owners like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder, and that's the way I like it, at least as far as football matters goes. The analogy probably wasn't the ideal example but I meant it to show how Allen worked out of the public eye and that very little was/is known about his involvement in tactical, football related decisions like draft picks and trades.

[NorthHawk]

We saw him at the draft table and we saw him at times during practice and pre-season, so we know he didn't just let the team go on by itself.
He was also on the sidelines at games. So with a billion dollar enterprise, I doubt he wouldn't want results or rather care about results but would
want to know why some decisions were made. Pete also said when first hired that we would build through the draft. Any involved owner would ask why
that changed and to justify the decisions to change what was a successful direction. So although we don't have access to his calendar, we can surmise
he would have asked some questions that might be uncomfortable for Pete and John and maybe even demanded a return to the old philosophy that was
so successful.

[RiverDog]

We saw him at the draft table and we saw him at times during practice and pre-season, so we know he didn't just let the team go on by itself. He was also on the sidelines at games. So with a billion dollar enterprise, I doubt he wouldn't want results or rather care about results but would want to know why some decisions were made. Pete also said when first hired that we would build through the draft. Any involved owner would ask why that changed and to justify the decisions to change what was a successful direction. So although we don't have access to his calendar, we can surmise he would have asked some questions that might be uncomfortable for Pete and John and maybe even demanded a return to the old philosophy that was so successful.

You're still just trying to put 2 and 2 together, using deductive reasoning and speculating about what he probably did. Unlike other owners, like Ken Behring, of whom there were a number of sources that indicated he pressured Knox into drafting Dan McGuire with his first round pick, there aren't any articles or sources that have said that Paul Allen had dictated any football related directions to any of his 4 head coaches. If anyone has a source that shows he did, I'd like to see it.

If he has dictated directions to his coaches, asked them to justify their decisions to him, or otherwise gotten involved in the day-to-day management of the football team, it has to have been one of the best kept secrets in the game.

[obiken]

River If you look at the history, look at how long he stayed with Racheed Wallace here in PDX. Its not much of a reach to say he would have ended the feud, who he would have backed is speculation.

[Aseahawkfan]

Paul Allen hired Mike Holmgren and Pete Carroll. He always went out of his way to make sure we had a very good head coach. Even when he let Ruskell take a shot on Mora, he nixed that quick when he didn't feel Mora was the caliber of head coach he wanted in Seattle.

Paul Allen would definitely have stepped in if there was a problem between Russ and Pete. I have no doubt about it. If you can't see that Seattle having two elite head coaches that many teams wanted as proof Allen was involved enough to make sure that happened, then I don't know what to tell you.

We even saw Allen limit Mike Holmgren's GM powers when he felt that wasn't working.

There is plenty of evidence that Paul Allen was active and discrete when handling situations behind the scenes he didn't think were working. He fixed them and didn't make a thing about it in the press.

[NorthHawk]

As well, any business person who hires someone to lead their company on the basis that they will do it a certain way would ask questions when that company strays from what
the manager was once doing and is less successful than when they did what they said they would when first hired. It's a billion+ dollar business and I can't see how any
successful business man would just let it go as their employee wanted and not how it was initially planned without asking difficult questions.

[Rambo2014]

Hmmmmm, What will the season look like? I had to digest that in my mind for a few weeks as I take a nice long puff on a Cuban cigar,,,,,and sip a Martini after a long day down at the lot.

Bingo - Seahawks null and void...NFC Champ game Rams and Cowboys, Rams win 23-17, AFC Champ game KC and the Colts...Colts win 34-33

SB Rams win 28-14

Take that to the bank while I enjoy my day off

[obiken]

Paul Allen hired Mike Holmgren and Pete Carroll. He always went out of his way to make sure we had a very good head coach. Even when he let Ruskell take a shot on Mora, he nixed that quick when he didn't feel Mora was the caliber of head coach he wanted in Seattle.

Paul Allen would definitely have stepped in if there was a problem between Russ and Pete. I have no doubt about it. If you can't see that Seattle having two elite head coaches that many teams wanted as proof Allen was involved enough to make sure that happened, then I don't know what to tell you.

We even saw Allen limit Mike Holmgren's GM powers when he felt that wasn't working.

There is plenty of evidence that Paul Allen was active and discrete when handling situations behind the scenes he didn't think were working. He fixed them and didn't make a thing about it in the press.

Yeah I thought Holmy would be a better GM than a Coach, Man was I ever wrong on that one!

[govandals]

Honest question: Has anyone seen anything, unsubstantiated rumors or speculation, regarding Paul Allen's direct involvement with football-related issues such as questioning the judgement of the head coach and/or general manager over draft picks, trades, or contract signings? I have never seen anything, even during the Mora year, where Allen questioned the tactics of the head coach/GM.

Allen always reminded me of the owner of the Knights in the movie The Natural, the mysterious guy in the dark room with the window shades pulled.

Brock Huard stated on the Danny and Gallant show that Paul Allen met with PCJS every Monday and reviewed the previous game. He never said how in depth those meetings were. He also said Allen had his own advisors that helped him with football decisions.

As far as Allen handling the Russ situation, I think Russ would have gone to Allen with his frustrations first. Russ went through the media because he has no where else to go. Pete is the supreme ruler right now. The only way to put pressure on Pete was through the media. I'm sure Allen would have put some pressure on Pete.

Remember our historically bad defense in the first half of the season? The defense that was on pace to give up the most yards in the history of the NFL? I wonder how Mr. Allen would have liked that.

[NorthHawk]

That feeds into Russ's comment that Carroll has too much power.
I can't remember any team where a coach became GM, did both and was very successful. Add in total control of the franchise and it may be too
much for any person - even with JS as GM to take some of the duties. What was Shakespeare's comment, "Heavy hangs the head that wears the crown" (or something like that)?

[curmudgeon]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/24/cap-charge-for-a-russell-wilson-trade-plummets-next-week/

[c_hawkbob]

Well Florio's right about one thing: he's been saying the same thing (that Wilson won't sign another contract with the Seahawks) since the day he signed the current one. But that doesn't make him any closer to right than he's ever been. He's just establishing his "I told ya so's" ahead of time if it does happen (which I still see as 50/50).

[NorthHawk]

I think a lot of Russ's future here lies with the Offensive changes and whether he thinks it's been given the freedom to play to its potential.
Pete not interfering when things go bad will be the key, if I read this correctly.

[govandals]

I think a lot of Russ's future here lies with the Offensive changes and whether he thinks it's been given the freedom to play to its potential.
Pete not interfering when things go bad will be the key, if I read this correctly.

Agreed.

Also, I'm sure Waldron is well aware what happened here last year. I don't think he takes the job if he thinks what happened to Schotty could happen to him.

[jshawaii22]

I'm sure Waldron is well aware what happened here last year. I don't think he takes the job if he thinks what happened to Schotty could happen to him.
govandals

I'm pretty sure he took the job because it paid more $$$ then he was getting from the Rams (or any other offer at the time). In the real world, that makes everything else secondary, and what happened to Schotty probably had very little to do with his decision.

[NorthHawk]

I can see the lure of moving up in the coaching ranks being the largest factor along with working with a
premier QB in Wilson.

[govandals]

[/quote]

I'm pretty sure he took the job because it paid more $$$ then he was getting from the Rams (or any other offer at the time). In the real world, that makes everything else secondary, and what happened to Schotty probably had very little to do with his decision.[/quote]

I understand money makes the world go 'round. However, I hope Waldron isn't this shortsighted.

Why would Waldron take this job knowing he could easily be undermined by Pete, which is exactly what happened to Schotty last season. Being fired a la Scotty would be detrimental to his reputation and his future earnings. It's not worth one year of an OC salary.

[jshawaii22]

Because no one takes a job expecting to fail and therefore your premise is wrong. I also think that contracts for OC / DC are 3 years, so even if he were to be let go (fired) he would still collect all 3 years, and yes, the difference in salaries is probably 2 to 3x a QB coach and is 100% worth it. Even at the lowest, Cleveland kept getting new coaches to come. It doesn't matter. Everyone takes a job expecting to improve the current situation. And the $$$$ that come with it is just gravy.

[jshawaii22]

On another subject, an article came out that said all but 2 NFL teams are confirmed for 100% capacity for games and most will open training camps to the public. The 2 teams are not the Seahawks. I never saw any of that. My wife wants to travel this fall and coming home for a week would be pretty nice. Never been to the new stadium. I've only seen the Seahawks at Candlestick and that ugly POS in Santa Clara.

[NorthHawk]

The “New Stadium” is 19 years old. Where has the time gone?

[obiken]

The “New Stadium” is 19 years old. Where has the time gone?

I know its hard to believe isnt it!!!

[RiverDog]

On another subject, an article came out that said all but 2 NFL teams are confirmed for 100% capacity for games and most will open training camps to the public. The 2 teams are not the Seahawks. I never saw any of that. My wife wants to travel this fall and coming home for a week would be pretty nice. Never been to the new stadium. I've only seen the Seahawks at Candlestick and that ugly POS in Santa Clara.

There's every indication that the Hawks will be playing at home before a 100% capacity crowd, at least at the start of the season. The league is leaving the decision up to the individual teams and local officials. With the way the numbers are looking, it's hard to imagine a scenario where they'd have to limit capacities. I've already pulled the trigger on some game tickets for the season opener in Indy.

[Aseahawkfan]

Brock Huard stated on the Danny and Gallant show that Paul Allen met with PCJS every Monday and reviewed the previous game. He never said how in depth those meetings were. He also said Allen had his own advisors that helped him with football decisions.

As far as Allen handling the Russ situation, I think Russ would have gone to Allen with his frustrations first. Russ went through the media because he has no where else to go. Pete is the supreme ruler right now. The only way to put pressure on Pete was through the media. I'm sure Allen would have put some pressure on Pete.

Remember our historically bad defense in the first half of the season? The defense that was on pace to give up the most yards in the history of the NFL? I wonder how Mr. Allen would have liked that.

Losing Paul Allen is a far bigger deal than people realize and the bigger threat to Seattle than many fans understand. I think we're in for a rough ride because Jodi Allen likely barely cares about the team. She would gladly sell it as soon as she can if there weren't problems doing so PR and likely contractually. I bet Paul Allen has something in the contract that Seattle must be sold to someone locally. I don't know if we have another rich pro-Seahawks sports fans like Allen up to buy the team. We could end up even more screwed than losing Russ at some point, more like losing the entire team.

[RiverDog]

I guess if you want to make the team or get some playing time, you'll get vaccinated:

Pete Carroll has Seahawks goal of 100% player vaccinations by the start of training camp

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/sports/a ... jgPrAALZoM

[c_hawkbob]

I guess if you want to make the team or get some playing time, you'll get vaccinated:

Pete Carroll has Seahawks goal of 100% player vaccinations by the start of training camp

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/sports/a ... jgPrAALZoM

I got no problem with that.

[RiverDog]

I guess if you want to make the team or get some playing time, you'll get vaccinated:

Pete Carroll has Seahawks goal of 100% player vaccinations by the start of training camp

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/sports/a ... jgPrAALZoM

I got no problem with that.

Me, either. To the contrary, I applaud it.

[c_hawkbob]

Me too, it's the sort of thing that makes us the model covid protocol team.

[RiverDog]

Me too, it's the sort of thing that makes us the model covid protocol team.

Yup. I wish that companies...and perhaps some have...would adapt a similar philosophy. If you want a promotion, it would be in your career's best interest to get a vaccination so as to impress the boss. It's a cheaper version of donating to the boss's favorite charity. What ever it takes to get a needle into as many arms as possible.

[NorthHawk]

If we were playing in London this year, it would be more important as some players might not be permitted to travel internationally without being vaccinated.
As it is today, I would hope they would all be vaccinated, but chances are that some won't be.

[RiverDog]

If we were playing in London this year, it would be more important as some players might not be permitted to travel internationally without being vaccinated. As it is today, I would hope they would all be vaccinated, but chances are that some won't be.

I'm traveling to Iceland next month, and you don't have to have a vaccination or proof of prior infection to enter the country, but not having either subjects you to a 14 day quarantine. One oddity that I personally feel is overkill is that even if you have a proof of vaccination or prior infection, you still have to take a PCR test upon arrival and wait 6-12 hours for the results before they let you book any tours, etc.

Sorry for venturing off topic.