The Draft

[mykc14]

I am not saying this pick just sucked mykc14, I just saying you have to draft for need, and WR was not as big a need than OL. Did you see the Smurf the rams took? 155 lbs! I hope they both make it, but this is why I like Wheaties better than Rice Krispies. Snap, Crackle, pop, and their out of the league. Look at Ricardo Lockette, and he was 6-2 210, one good pop by a Dallas safety and he was done.

I personally like drafting OL/DL, but IMO a WR early this year was inevitable given the teams FA moves. We did nothing in FA to address our WR core and we lost a significant member. We had draft hedges at just about ever other position, and like I mentioned earlier this kid is a perfect fit for the Waldron/McVay offense. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rams wouldn’t have picked him had we not. As far as his size he’s not small in weight/muscle, the dude is 190 lbs at 5’9” he’s a ball of muscle. For comparison sake Tyreek Hill is 5’10” 185... Tyler Lockett 5’10” 180... Eskridge is 5’9” 190. I wish he were 2 inches taller, but physically his body type isn’t any more likely to get hurt than this other guys. You are going to love seeing this guy run crossing routes and jet sweep looks in this offense next year.

[Hawk Sista]

Anybody know what we got for sliding back? I can’t seem to find it.

[Hawk Sista]

I found it. Traded back 8 spots and picked up a late 6th.

[NorthHawk]

Wow. We selected Tre Brown, a short CB. It’s really out of character for Pete to want a smaller QB.

[Hawk Sista]

OMG. It may well work out, but I have shrimpy CB PTSD (AKA -SCBPTSD). We shall see

[mykc14]

Wow. We selected Tre Brown, a short CB. It’s really out of character for Pete to want a smaller QB.

Yeah this one is surprising to me. DJ Reed also doesn’t fit their prototype at Corner so maybe they are broadening their position specifics at Corner. I thought at first maybe he projects as an inside guy but it doesn’t look like it, although the Hawks are known for moving guys around in the secondary. Surprising pick for sure.

[c_hawkbob]

I think Pete's more about attitude and football smarts than height/weight/40 time and just fits the player is where he works.

Tre Brown CB, OKLA
Height: 5-10, Weight: 186

Super-feisty ready-to-go slot. Feet are lightning bolts and he loves battling. Will be an instant starter. (Chris Trapasso)

[NorthHawk]

[quote="c_hawkbob"]I think Pete's more about attitude and football smarts than height/weight/40 time and just fits the player is where he works.

[quote]Tre Brown CB, OKLA
Height: 5-10, Weight: 186

Super-feisty ready-to-go slot. Feet are lightning bolts and he loves battling. Will be an instant starter. (Chris Trapasso)






Maybe they are changing or broadening their scope for DBs because other teams are also going after those types so
there aren’t as many available. I hope he makes it as an immediate starter.

[NorthHawk]

6th round OT Stone Forsythe. 6’8” tall.
Possible development LT. Said to be good in pass pro but not as good at run blocking.

[c_hawkbob]

Bulk him up and coach him up, we may have something:

Stone Forsythe OL, FLA
Height: 6-9, Weight: 312

Classic Seahawks pick late in the draft. Forsythe looks like an enlarged tight end on the field. Super tall and lean. Effortless power. Crazy long. The pass-protection fundamentals are far from perfect at this stage. High upside but he is an older prospect. (Chris Trapasso)

[Hawk Sista]

Thank you for the info on both, Bob. Still trust P & J more than myself.

And that’s a wrap. Now for the URFAs, @ least one will make the squad I’d bet.

[NorthHawk]

I hope there’s a RB in the UFA’s. Someone who’s a downhill runner.

[obiken]

6th round OT Stone Forsythe. 6’8” tall.
Possible development LT. Said to be good in pass pro but not as good at run blocking.

Finally! We had the 3rd most in sacks in the NFL, and we get one Olineman on our last pick. I would have been happier IF we had taken Lineman for all three picks. Maybe the two Smurfs can help block Aaron Donald.

[obiken]

Stone Forsythe OL, FLA
Height: 6-9, Weight: 312

Classic Seahawks pick late in the draft. Forsythe looks like an enlarged tight end on the field. Super tall and lean. Effortless power. Crazy long. The pass-protection fundamentals are far from perfect at this stage. High upside but he is an older prospect.

[NorthHawk]

Interesting notes on Tre Brown.

Lowest passing rating allowed in single coverage in 2021 and hasn’t allowed more than 70 yards in
coverage in any game in the last 2 years. He’s also a good gunner on ST.

[obiken]

Interesting notes on Tre Brown.

Lowest passing rating allowed in single coverage in 2021 and hasn’t allowed more than 70 yards in
coverage in any game in the last 2 years. He’s also a good gunner on ST.

Okay but Graham out of Oregon was a way better prospect than this guy, and way bigger. Sorry, size matters in the NFL unless they are as thick as a stump like RW.

[NorthHawk]

He’s almost identical in size to DJ Reed, so that may have influenced them to take production over size.

[obiken]

He’s almost identical in size to DJ Reed, so that may have influenced them to take production over size.

Its hard to argue with the specific Pick NH, its just the fact that we have not drafted a B+ o-lineman since Russell Okung. It was our worst weakness even in the Championship years. Its an even bet that that by the end of the up coming season our entire draft last year is a complete bust. I love Pete, but IF we don't win at least one Playoff game, I am off him. Unlike Sister and others, at this point I cannot give PC the benifit of the doubt anymore, I just can't. I don't trust PC to tie his own shoe laces.

[Aseahawkfan]

Its hard to argue with the specific Pick NH, its just the fact that we have not drafted a B+ o-lineman since Russell Okung. It was our worst weakness even in the Championship years. Its an even bet that that by the end of the up coming season our entire draft last year is a complete bust. I love Pete, but IF we don't win at least one Playoff game, I am off him. Unlike Sister and others, at this point I cannot give PC the benifit of the doubt anymore, I just can't. I don't trust PC to tie his own shoe laces.

I'm getting tired of the draft capital traded. If you lose confidence to draft and develop talent as it seems Pete and John have done, you end up spending too much on picks you don't keep. We've done that too often in recent years with our high draft picks. We need to stick with the draft because that's where you get cheap, productive talent. In the salary cap area, this trade and let them walk strategy is not working. Not sure why they've gone that direction so often recently.

[RiverDog]

I'm getting tired of the draft capital traded. If you lose confidence to draft and develop talent as it seems Pete and John have done, you end up spending too much on picks you don't keep. We've done that too often in recent years with our high draft picks. We need to stick with the draft because that's where you get cheap, productive talent. In the salary cap area, this trade and let them walk strategy is not working. Not sure why they've gone that direction so often recently.

Trading our top pick isn't a new phenomenon for Pete and John. Under them, we have not had a #1 pick in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, and now 2021 and 2022.

I do agree that we've been burned in trading our top picks. But it's pretty hard to say whether or not it was a bad decision as it's unknown how we would have done had we held onto the pick and used it to take a player in the draft. We haven't had a pick in the top half of the draft for almost a decade, which lowers the chance of making a successful selection.

[NorthHawk]

Yup, ASF I think you’re right.
When they were first hired they said they would build through the draft - and they did it well. But it almost
seems that the early year success in the mid and late rounds went to their heads and they began to lose
respect for early picks. We’ve spent a lot of draft capital on OL over the years without much success and I
put a lot of fault with Cable not letting them develop at one position before trying to make them versatile
linemen.

Remember when they stated they wanted to be the bully of the NFL? That was the identity of the Seahawks.
What happened to that and what is the identity today? We’re getting pushed around on both sides of the LOS
and don’t have a big hitter on Defense anymore. We gave up draft choices for rentals (2nd round for Richardson
and 3rd for Clowney) but don’t re-sign them. What’s the team building strategy? It’s not very apparent and
comes across as them winging it every year. For example Pete said they needed to upgrade the pass rush 3
years ago, but they didn’t do anything for 2 years and now we lost our best interior pass rusher. Pete says
he wants a strong running game but trades down past players like Chubb and last year Taylor, both of whom
would have been great fits in our system. Instead, what happens? We end up signing RBs off the street at the
end of the year just before the playoffs. Then last year we gave up draft capital for what you would expect
to pay for a starting LT or mid range QB to get a Safety. A safety who has said he wants to reset the market
for DB’s/Safeties. So we’re looking at somewhere in the range of $17+ M. If we do re-sign him it means
more pressure on the Cap and still without a 1st round draft pick.

I’ve said enough, but it sure looks like they’ve lost their way in rebuilding the team, and it starts with frittering
away high draft picks.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trading our top pick isn't a new phenomenon for Pete and John. Under them, we have not had a #1 pick in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, and now 2021 and 2022.

I do agree that we've been burned in trading our top picks. But it's pretty hard to say whether or not it was a bad decision as it's unknown how we would have done had we held onto the pick and used it to take a player in the draft. We haven't had a pick in the top half of the draft for almost a decade, which lowers the chance of making a successful selection.

All I know is people are complaining about Russell's contract, but contracts are expensive for players we trade for looking for a big payday too. Now we gotta see what they sign Jamal Addams for. He's a great safety, no doubt. But he might cost us a lot of dough. We gotta sign him because you can't trade two first round picks for a player and let him walk. That would be an absolutely terrible trade.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yup, ASF I think you’re right.
When they were first hired they said they would build through the draft - and they did it well. But it almost
seems that the early year success in the mid and late rounds went to their heads and they began to lose
respect for early picks. We’ve spent a lot of draft capital on OL over the years without much success and I
put a lot of fault with Cable not letting them develop at one position before trying to make them versatile
linemen.

Remember when they stated they wanted to be the bully of the NFL? That was the identity of the Seahawks.
What happened to that and what is the identity today? We’re getting pushed around on both sides of the LOS
and don’t have a big hitter on Defense anymore. We gave up draft choices for rentals (2nd round for Richardson
and 3rd for Clowney) but don’t re-sign them. What’s the team building strategy? It’s not very apparent and
comes across as them winging it every year. For example Pete said they needed to upgrade the pass rush 3
years ago, but they didn’t do anything for 2 years and now we lost our best interior pass rusher. Pete says
he wants a strong running game but trades down past players like Chubb and last year Taylor, both of whom
would have been great fits in our system. Instead, what happens? We end up signing RBs off the street at the
end of the year just before the playoffs. Then last year we gave up draft capital for what you would expect
to pay for a starting LT or mid range QB to get a Safety. A safety who has said he wants to reset the market
for DB’s/Safeties. So we’re looking at somewhere in the range of $17+ M. If we do re-sign him it means
more pressure on the Cap and still without a 1st round draft pick.

I’ve said enough, but it sure looks like they’ve lost their way in rebuilding the team, and it starts with frittering
away high draft picks.

On this we can agree. We all remember the relentless search for quality talent in every nook and cranny the first few years. Now we're trying to trade for top tier talent using high cost draft capital, then letting them walk because they didn't perform or want too much money.

[obiken]

I'm getting tired of the draft capital traded. If you lose confidence to draft and develop talent as it seems Pete and John have done, you end up spending too much on picks you don't keep. We've done that too often in recent years with our high draft picks. We need to stick with the draft because that's where you get cheap, productive talent. In the salary cap area, this trade and let them walk strategy is not working. Not sure why they've gone that direction so often recently.

ASHF, we agree!! I was not opposed to trading for JA, it was giving up 2 first rounders for him that I had a problem with; a first and a second I could have lived with, but the Jets saw us coming. I agree 100% however, we have to sign him, there is no choice. Where you and I have a slight difference of Opinion is long term. I am with some of the guys in here that the RW situation is only going to get worse. Bobby has maybe 2 good years left, the LT is long in the tooth, and Dunlap is a good bridge, but only a bridge. DK still drops too many balls, thats why we got him, but he is good no doubt. Unless IF as River says, he doesnt turn into another diva WR, but when do we have to start paying him? PC has done a good job in FA, but the draft, different story. His drafting of OLineman is like Bill Bilicheat's drafting of WR's, they cant. As the Zen master once said, we'll see!

[NorthHawk]

I saw a comment that big Walt was wanting us to select Forsythe.
Maybe he and Duane Brown can get him ready to play sooner than he otherwise might.
We don’t know if this is Brown’s last year or not so it’s a good time to develop a player
who can be his successor. Unless Brown decides to do what Andrew Whitworth is doing
and play into his 40s.

[Aseahawkfan]

ASHF, we agree!! I was not opposed to trading for JA, it was giving up 2 first rounders for him that I had a problem with; a first and a second I could have lived with, but the Jets saw us coming. I agree 100% however, we have to sign him, there is no choice. Where you and I have a slight difference of Opinion is long term. I am with some of the guys in here that the RW situation is only going to get worse. Bobby has maybe 2 good years left, the LT is long in the tooth, and Dunlap is a good bridge, but only a bridge. DK still drops too many balls, thats why we got him, but he is good no doubt. Unless IF as River says, he doesnt turn into another diva WR, but when do we have to start paying him? PC has done a good job in FA, but the draft, different story. His drafting of OLineman is like Bill Bilicheat's drafting of WR's, they cant. As the Zen master once said, we'll see!

Look, if the choice is between Russell or Pete, Pete's losing his job. No one is going to pick a coach over a franchise QB unless that QB is on his last legs. Russ is nowhere close to on his last legs. Ownership will find a new head coach before they let the face of the franchise go. It's much easier to find a good head coach than a franchise QB. So you don't have to worry about that.

Fact is Pete's time is coming to an end. He's lost his way and if he and John can't find it again real quick, neither is going to outlast Russell in Seattle. They keep thinking they have these quick fix players and that doesn't work. In the modern NFL with the salary cap, you either learn to draft and develop very, very well or your team is going to decay as we're seeing. I think if Pete is one and done next year, he's likely done in Seattle. We're making no progress under Pete, just kind of maintaining because we have Russell Wilson and a team that is now easily figured out with Pete having nothing new to offer to the formula as a coach.

Pete built the greatest Seahawks team in history and a historic defense. But now he's a haunted coach who failed when he had the chance to become the next dynasty. Sometimes for whatever reason you never get a chance to fix that one mistake and a team needs to move on to new blood to see if they can give the team a new direction while you still have a franchise QB in their prime and some great pieces to build around. We have that. But we likely need new blood at the head coach position who isn't stuck in one mode of thinking and no longer able to build the team they need to make their vision work.

[jshawaii22]

Pete just signed a 3 year extension and JS signed for 4... hard to assume that the team "ownership", which is anything but typical in the NFL would turn around and fire the coach as he is pretty much running the team right now. "Ownership" of the Seahawks is not one person like Jerry Jones, running a day-to-day team. The Seahawks have a non-involved corporate structure with multiple layers of upper management, none of which seems to have any control over the team functions. Paul Allen didn't run the team and neither does his sister. This is not Dallas, Pittsburgh or New England. Vulcan Sports is a corporation that has no purpose or goals and is not a public corporation so they don't have to answer to anyone.
If the team wins, great, if not... it's too bad.

When she stepped in at Paul's untimely death, she didn't ask for this and is not strong, not a leader and certainly not above the coach in corporate structure at this time. Don't bet on Pete leaving any time soon, except to retire, which he may do to save face some day, but it won't be from being fired.

[obiken]

jshawaii22, Paul Allen, was not Jerry, but he was not un-engaged, if were alive he would have squished this like a bug!!

[RiverDog]

All I know is people are complaining about Russell's contract, but contracts are expensive for players we trade for looking for a big payday too. Now we gotta see what they sign Jamal Addams for. He's a great safety, no doubt. But he might cost us a lot of dough. We gotta sign him because you can't trade two first round picks for a player and let him walk. That would be an absolutely terrible trade.

Agreed about Adams. We almost have to resign him. I have to think that the team and Adams had some sort of unwritten understanding regarding the basic parameters of a new contract. If they didn't, then they are fools to commit that many valuable draft resources on a gamble that they can resign him to a palatable contract. They did something similar with Clowney, but what we gave up was minimal and therefore a good risk. The Adams trade is quite a bit more risky.

[RiverDog]

Pete just signed a 3 year extension and JS signed for 4... hard to assume that the team "ownership", which is anything but typical in the NFL would turn around and fire the coach as he is pretty much running the team right now. "Ownership" of the Seahawks is not one person like Jerry Jones, running a day-to-day team. The Seahawks have a non-involved corporate structure with multiple layers of upper management, none of which seems to have any control over the team functions. Paul Allen didn't run the team and neither does his sister. This is not Dallas, Pittsburgh or New England. Vulcan Sports is a corporation that has no purpose or goals and is not a public corporation so they don't have to answer to anyone.
If the team wins, great, if not... it's too bad.

When she stepped in at Paul's untimely death, she didn't ask for this and is not strong, not a leader and certainly not above the coach in corporate structure at this time. Don't bet on Pete leaving any time soon, except to retire, which he may do to save face some day, but it won't be from being fired.

I agree with this. Paul Allen was one of the most hands off owners in the league, and there's no reason to believe that Jody is going to be anymore assertative than her brother. Pete and John ARE the Seahawks. They are as autonomous as any HC/GM in major league sports.

[govandals]

Pete just signed a 3 year extension and JS signed for 4... hard to assume that the team "ownership", which is anything but typical in the NFL would turn around and fire the coach as he is pretty much running the team right now. "Ownership" of the Seahawks is not one person like Jerry Jones, running a day-to-day team. The Seahawks have a non-involved corporate structure with multiple layers of upper management, none of which seems to have any control over the team functions. Paul Allen didn't run the team and neither does his sister. This is not Dallas, Pittsburgh or New England. Vulcan Sports is a corporation that has no purpose or goals and is not a public corporation so they don't have to answer to anyone.
If the team wins, great, if not... it's too bad.

When she stepped in at Paul's untimely death, she didn't ask for this and is not strong, not a leader and certainly not above the coach in corporate structure at this time. Don't bet on Pete leaving any time soon, except to retire, which he may do to save face some day, but it won't be from being fired.

Spot on.

Pete isn't going anywhere unless he retires or there is new ownership.

[NorthHawk]

Pete has been given the reins to run the football side as he wishes. Paul Allen would ask the tough questions and demand results, but now we don't have that.
However, this trend of bad draft picks, losing focus of identity, trading away picks for players started before Paul Allen's death but it has become even more
pronounced now he is gone. The huge fleecing of us for Adams being the worst example and possibly moving up in the draft to get Darrell Taylor who might
have trouble ever playing being a close second. There have been a few good picks, but too many bad ones to really say their drafting strategy has been good
for the long term development of this team. It seems to me that we are Russell Wilson away from a seriously bad win/loss record as he pretty much single
handedly won 4 or 5 games on his own last year (maybe more) and kept us in others that our very poor Defense at the time was trying to give away. And most
of those problems start and end with bad drafting and trading away draft picks for expensive veterans. Whatever happened to JS coveting his draft picks and
letting players go to get Comp picks? That ideal seems to have gone the way of the dodo in Seattle. I have very little doubt that Pete was the one who pushed
for Adams regardless of the draft capital and player we lost getting him. Adams is a very good player, but we paid so much for him that he has most of the
leverage in his upcoming contract negotiations. We either say goodbye to 2 firsts, a 3rd, and a starting caliber Safety for a 3rd round comp pick or we fold to
his demands and let him walk. Very, very poor decision to pay that amount in draft capital, and totally out of character from the first 4 or 5 years of this regime.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete just signed a 3 year extension and JS signed for 4... hard to assume that the team "ownership", which is anything but typical in the NFL would turn around and fire the coach as he is pretty much running the team right now. "Ownership" of the Seahawks is not one person like Jerry Jones, running a day-to-day team. The Seahawks have a non-involved corporate structure with multiple layers of upper management, none of which seems to have any control over the team functions. Paul Allen didn't run the team and neither does his sister. This is not Dallas, Pittsburgh or New England. Vulcan Sports is a corporation that has no purpose or goals and is not a public corporation so they don't have to answer to anyone.
If the team wins, great, if not... it's too bad.

When she stepped in at Paul's untimely death, she didn't ask for this and is not strong, not a leader and certainly not above the coach in corporate structure at this time. Don't bet on Pete leaving any time soon, except to retire, which he may do to save face some day, but it won't be from being fired.

We mostly do, but if the choice comes down to Russ or Pete as some on here are surmising, it will be Russ staying and not Pete. If Pete is one and done next year, that is going to get tiresome.

And you are the right in that the leadership structure is an unknown right now. Paul Allen's sister is tossed in. We have no idea how invested she is in the team. But I wouldn't think for a second that if there was a conflict between Russ and Pete, Jody would bring on a knowledgeable football person to explain you keep the QB over the head coach and take care of it. Jody is unlikely to be stupid enough to lower the value of the team by getting rid of the face of the franchise. Fact is head coaches change all the time, but franchise QBs increase the value of your franchise by millions of dollars if you have them locked up.

That's what I don't see taken into account in these discussions. I would not be surprised if the Seahawks value with Russell Wilson as QB is a 100 million dollars higher than with him gone. A businessperson looking to maintain their team value would do everything possible to keep the face of the franchise as losing Russ drops the sale value of the team by a substantial amount immediately, while losing Pete at his age and tenure with the Seahawks might lead to an increase if you can find a quality replacement. Not to mention how much Russ increases merchandise sales, attendance, and every aspect of football as having a high value face of the franchise that makes you playoff competitive is the number one job of any GM and HC to start with.

[jshawaii22]

Aseahawkfan, if decisions were only made by whether or not the valuation of the team is affected, then New England must be worth a billion less without Brady and that's just not the case and the owner of the team would be a laughing stock. (and not because he couldn't keep his zipper closed)
Basing the value of a team (if it were up for sale) on who the QB is seems like a stretch and would be very short sighted.
Remember when the LA Clippers former owner was forced to sell? You'd think the Clippers would of been a fire sale, and they were never a top tier team and the sale set a record over a billion at the time. I thought it was idiotic, but remember who bought it was worth billions and the team valuations are only going up. Lots of people with billions and billions out there.

Since the Seahawks aren't for sale, the value of the team at any given point simply wouldn't matter in this case and certainly wouldn't have anything to do with the hiring or firing of your coach or the trading away of any player, included Russ.

He was a few years older, but San Francisco traded away Montana and at that time, he was the #1 QB of all time and the team ownership and coach didn't collapse. Coach left when he decided he needed to retire, like Pete would. 49er Ownership got booted over a stupid public graft case in Louisiana.

[obiken]

Pete has been given the reins to run the football side as he wishes. Paul Allen would ask the tough questions and demand results, but now we don't have that.
However, this trend of bad draft picks, losing focus of identity, trading away picks for players started before Paul Allen's death but it has become even more
pronounced now he is gone. The huge fleecing of us for Adams being the worst example and possibly moving up in the draft to get Darrell Taylor who might
have trouble ever playing being a close second. There have been a few good picks, but too many bad ones to really say their drafting strategy has been good
for the long term development of this team. It seems to me that we are Russell Wilson away from a seriously bad win/loss record as he pretty much single
handedly won 4 or 5 games on his own last year (maybe more) and kept us in others that our very poor Defense at the time was trying to give away. And most
of those problems start and end with bad drafting and trading away draft picks for expensive veterans. Whatever happened to JS coveting his draft picks and
letting players go to get Comp picks? That ideal seems to have gone the way of the dodo in Seattle. I have very little doubt that Pete was the one who pushed
for Adams regardless of the draft capital and player we lost getting him. Adams is a very good player, but we paid so much for him that he has most of the
leverage in his upcoming contract negotiations. We either say goodbye to 2 firsts, a 3rd, and a starting caliber Safety for a 3rd round comp pick or we fold to
his demands and let him walk. Very, very poor decision to pay that amount in draft capital, and totally out of character from the first 4 or 5 years of this regime.

Wow what a treatise! most of which I agree with, even IF I did not, I would still be impressed!

[govandals]

Roster construction has very, very little to do with the value of a given NFL franchise. Market size, branding and stadium value are the biggest factors.

[Aseahawkfan]

Aseahawkfan, if decisions were only made by whether or not the valuation of the team is affected, then New England must be worth a billion less without Brady and that's just not the case and the owner of the team would be a laughing stock. (and not because he couldn't keep his zipper closed)
Basing the value of a team (if it were up for sale) on who the QB is seems like a stretch and would be very short sighted.
Remember when the LA Clippers former owner was forced to sell? You'd think the Clippers would of been a fire sale, and they were never a top tier team and the sale set a record over a billion at the time. I thought it was idiotic, but remember who bought it was worth billions and the team valuations are only going up. Lots of people with billions and billions out there.

Since the Seahawks aren't for sale, the value of the team at any given point simply wouldn't matter in this case and certainly wouldn't have anything to do with the hiring or firing of your coach or the trading away of any player, included Russ.

He was a few years older, but San Francisco traded away Montana and at that time, he was the #1 QB of all time and the team ownership and coach didn't collapse. Coach left when he decided he needed to retire, like Pete would. 49er Ownership got booted over a stupid public graft case in Louisiana.

You're not up on your NFL history I guess.

Brady is on his last legs even with that championship last year. And yeah, New England's value dropped by a few 100 million in value with Brady no longer on the team or in his prime. They would not have let Brady leave if he wasn't 43, 12 years older than Russ.

San Francisco traded Montana when he was a shell of his former self who lasted two more injury riddled seasons. So that is not true at all. Montana was not the number one QB, was not in his prime, and was on his way out the year he was traded, but didn't know when to retire like so many great players. The head coach Bill Walsh had already moved on and was replaced by George Siefert. So not even close to a good comparison.

I'll bet you right now a gentleman's bet if it comes down to Russ or Pete, Pete is the one going. And if he's one and done next year, Pete will be officially on the hot seat. No one wants to watch the one and done show any longer with desperate trades to get players because he and John aren't confident drafting any longer.

[Aseahawkfan]

Roster construction has very, very little to do with the value of a given NFL franchise. Market size, branding and stadium value are the biggest factors.

Roster construction does not, but a franchise QB most assuredly does increase the value. Just like having a Michael Jordan on the Chicago Bulls greatly increased their value and prestige. No one gives a rip about the Chicago Bulls right now, but they were everything when Jordan was there.

Fact is Russell Wilson's continued success elevates the Seahawks increasing TV ratings, merchandise sales, and overall Seahawks engagement. Nowhere did I say the QB was the number one or most important determinate of team value. But they definitely have a dramatic effect on team value compared to any other single player.

Not sure why you're arguing that isn't the case, when it very much is. If Russ and Pete get in a real behind the scenes fight, Russ is going to win that battle at this point in Pete's career and Russ's career. Russ is clearly far more valuable to the Seattle Seahawks than Pete.

[govandals]

You're not up on your NFL history I guess.

Brady is on his last legs even with that championship last year. And yeah, New England's value dropped by a few 100 million in value with Brady no longer on the team or in his prime. They would not have let Brady leave if he wasn't 43, 12 years older than Russ.

Patriots franchise value:
2017 3.7 B with Brady
2018 3.8 B with Brady
2019 4.1 B with Brady
2020 4.4 B without Brady

[govandals]

Not sure why you're arguing that isn't the case, when it very much is. If Russ and Pete get in a real behind the scenes fight, Russ is going to win that battle at this point in Pete's career and Russ's career. Russ is clearly far more valuable to the Seattle Seahawks than Pete.

No, Russ is not going to win that battle.
Pete is the boss, Russ is the employee.
As of right now, Pete answers to no one.

Now, when it come to winning football games, yes, RW is far more valuable than Pete.