Thoughts on Russ

[govandals]

Hey HawkShack

Been a while since I've posted, a little less than a year. Life has been busy, got married, work is really busy, life is good! lol

Curious as to everyone's thoughts on Russ.
His 4 team trade list.
JS meeting with Bears brass to discuss a trade, and Hawks rejection of Bears proposal
Shane Waldron
Lack of draft capitol

I guess this should be what's your general thought on the Hawks franchise right now. Where exactly do YOU feel we are at?
Super Bowl contender?
Happy to have a winning record and first round playoff exit?
Ready to rebuild?

[c_hawkbob]

This thread, if you're up for the read, goes into considerable depth on it. Everything I said in that thread still applies, but if you want the short and sweet I'd go wit this one:

Prima donna is way out of line for Russ. How dare he show any ego at all? Imagine being concerned with his own legacy? It totally cancels out saying and doing exactly the right thing at every opportunity for 8 years. Russ has been nothing short of the perfect face of the franchise and I think the team is completely slapping him in the face right now.

Go to the team website. Without clicking anything just scroll down and look at all the articles and pictures ... Russell Wilson is conspicuously absent entirely.* Not a mention, not a picture, even in the background. That has nothing to do with potential litigation. I'm seriously as disappointed in how the team is conducting themselves as I have ever been.

* true when I wrote this, there is however a picture of him now. This was also in response to his having been completely absent from the team's letter to season ticket holders.

[NorthHawk]

We’re a perpetual make the playoffs and out early team.
This year so far we haven’t really improved while the other teams in our division have.
I think it’s going to be a struggle to compete for the Division championship if we don’t get a few gems on this draft.

Regarding Russ, I think it’s his last year here unless Pete does a complete 180 and lets the Offense play to its potential. And since Pete is 70 and believes in his philosophy, Russ will be traded after this year. If not, then he will leave in FA after his contract ends and we will end up with only a 3rd round comp pick. It’s not a good long term position to be in.

[RiverDog]

Hey HawkShack

Been a while since I've posted, a little less than a year. Life has been busy, got married, work is really busy, life is good! lol

Great to hear from you and that you're doing well, and congrats on getting hitched!

Curious as to everyone's thoughts on Russ. His 4 team trade list. JS meeting with Bears brass to discuss a trade, and Hawks rejection of Bears proposal. Shane Waldron. Lack of draft capitol.

I think that Russell's disenchantment with the Hawks is real. I was disappointed that he made his differences so public and thought that his 4 team list was preposterous. I'm not sure what it is about the Bears or Cowboys that makes him think that he'd have any better luck with them than he has had here, especially when you consider what his next team would have to give up in a trade. Like North Hawk, I think that this is Russell's last season with us unless we go deep into the playoffs. If we miss the playoffs or are one and done like we were last season, I think that both parties will agree that it's time they part ways, but I don't think that we get offers anywhere near what the Bears are supposed to have ponied up in a potential RW trade.

I don't think JS ever met with the Bears brass to discuss a trade, he simply dismissed the rumors.

Shane Waldron is our last hope of getting Russell to stay beyond his current contract. As far as the lack of draft capital, IMO the pandemic had a lot to do with our being so thin in this year's draft as a lot of good players will opt to stay in college and the fact that it's going to be even more difficult to evaluate players after such an abortion of a CFB season. If I had to pick a season in which we were going to be this short on draft capital, 2021 would be it.

I guess this should be what's your general thought on the Hawks franchise right now. Where exactly do YOU feel we are at?
Super Bowl contender? Happy to have a winning record and first round playoff exit? Ready to rebuild?

I think it's a stretch to call ourselves a legitimate SB contender, but on the other hand, we did win 12 games last season. I'm willing to give the current formula one more season to at least get to the NFCCG. If we don't, then all bets are off.

Again, welcome back and please keep posting!

[Aseahawkfan]

My thoughts? Russ is a stand up guy. Great face for the team. I want him to stay in Seattle and retire here. We couldn't have picked a better face for the team and I roll with Russ as long as he chooses to remain in Seattle. He'll always be one of the best Seahawks ever. I consider him in the same light as Steve Largent, a man of excellent character on and off the field who sets an incredible standard for consistency and drive to improve.

My thoughts on the situation between the team and Russ. Something happened. We'll likely never know the specifics of what happened. I didn't care for how the team handled it with the newsletter. I think the media and some Seattle fans spun it up way worse than it was. It seems to have gotten settled and things are good again. I'm glad because I did not want Russ to leave or the team to play some weird game and trade him. I'd honestly rather lose Pete than Russ if Pete is dumb enough to think he can easily find another Russell Wilson.

Russ is going to retire as the best Seattle QB in history. He's going to set a high bar for performance for any future Seattle QB. He's likely going into the Hall of Fame. He is as consistent a human being and player as I've ever seen. It is highly unusual for a QB not to miss a game in 9 years. He never gives up. I think as long as we can get a defense rebuilt, we'll make another Super Bowl run that will go farther.

I'm looking forward to another 6 to 10 years of Russ as the Seahawks QB.

[Aseahawkfan]

We’re a perpetual make the playoffs and out early team.
This year so far we haven’t really improved while the other teams in our division have.
I think it’s going to be a struggle to compete for the Division championship if we don’t get a few gems on this draft.

Regarding Russ, I think it’s his last year here unless Pete does a complete 180 and lets the Offense play to its potential. And since Pete is 70 and believes in his philosophy, Russ will be traded after this year. If not, then he will leave in FA after his contract ends and we will end up with only a 3rd round comp pick. It’s not a good long term position to be in.

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever seen and shows such a misunderstanding of what a team is capable of doing to hold onto a key player that I don't even know how someone following the NFL can believe this will happen given it really hasn't ever happened with a QB in his prime.

[NorthHawk]

Well, Russ has gone so far as to name the teams he would want to go to. What player who wanted to stay has done that - at any position, in any professional sport if they were happy with their situation?
The fact is Russ wants to have a dynamic Offense and Pete wants a conservative Offense. This is clearly the case as when asked how the game should be played, Pete said he wants to win a game 17-14 and
Russ replied when told, why don't we score 28 points in the first half? Did you notice that each of the teams Russ OK'd to be traded to had an Offensive HC? Do you realize he's only under contract for this year
and next and then is an unrestricted free agent? Do you understand if the QB, the supposed leader in the locker room isn't on the same page as the HC, there will be problems and that this splits locker rooms?
Do you think that just maybe JS and possibly Pete aren't happy about Russ going public and are considering moving on as well? Did you notice that they did not restructure Wilson's contract to get more Cap space
even though that is the largest contract Seattle has and the obvious choice to do so?

There's a lot of smoke here, but there's also a lot of fuel too, so unless he signs a long term extension, I stand by him moving on after this year unless Pete changes his conservative way on Offense. Russ keeps
talking about his legacy and it has to burn inside him that he's been stuck with an Offense that doesn't let him get the big numbers that other QBs do.

[Hawk Sista]

On NFL.com, there is a piece that rates QB draft classes since 2000. Take a gander at how many nobodies are in those drafts. It was mind-blowing, really. Then look at the other 31 teams in the league & their QBs. Who would you prefer over RW? There is maybe one or two names, & for someone us 12s, RW is THE one. It is sooooooo hard to find a QB that’s decent let alone one of his ilk that we’d be idiots not to satiate him to large degree.

I’m no fan of the way RW & his weirdo agent went about this off-season. AND, if we are going to be successful at all, we need RW. Though your Flaccos, Dilfers, and Foles win as many SBs as anyone not named Brady. A compromise must be reached,& I think they’ll get it done.

I think the Hawks will be better in 2021 and go deeper into the playoffs than we have for awhile. They will have more synchronicity and consistency from both the O and the D. Last year was a tale of two halves for both with the Hawks never finding their stride on both sides of the ball. RW’s determination + Waldron will work. I still think we will see some talent shedding and we will pick up some more pieces after the draft (after June 1 cuts). Of course it’s April and I think this every April.

[NorthHawk]

It’s up to Wilson whether he stays or moves on, not the Seahawks. We are much better with him than without but unless Pete
let’s go of the reins Russ will be even more frustrated. Maybe Waldron can give us the Offense Wilson wants, but we need a 3rd WR, another good RB, a LT to develop, a LB if KJ isn’t re-signed, interior DL who can provide some push up the middle after losing Reed, and a good CB.
All of this is needed with only 3 draft picks and very little Cap space. I think like last year Russ will win us a handful of games with his talent
alone but that’s probably not enough to go deep in the playoffs and maybe not enough to even get into the playoffs if injuries hit as we don’t have the quality depth we had up until around 2014-2015.

It used to be teams waited for our cuts because quality talent would be let go, but the last few years we’ve whiffed on draft picks with a few exceptions and find ourselves looking for cuts from other teams.

[RiverDog]

It’s up to Wilson whether he stays or moves on, not the Seahawks.

I don't agree. Yes, Russell has a no cut contract which gives him veto power over any possible trade. But to say that it's 100% up to him assumes that the Seahawks have no influence over his comfort level playing for us. Plus once his current contract is up, a decision by the Hawks will have to be made as to whether or not to let him walk.

We are much better with him than without but unless Pete let’s go of the reins Russ will be even more frustrated. Maybe Waldron can give us the Offense Wilson wants, but we need a 3rd WR, another good RB, a LT to develop, a LB if KJ isn’t re-signed, interior DL who can provide some push up the middle after losing Reed, and a good CB.

All of this is needed with only 3 draft picks and very little Cap space. I think like last year Russ will win us a handful of games with his talent
alone but that’s probably not enough to go deep in the playoffs and maybe not enough to even get into the playoffs if injuries hit as we don’t have the quality depth we had up until around 2014-2015.

It used to be teams waited for our cuts because quality talent would be let go, but the last few years we’ve whiffed on draft picks with a few exceptions and find ourselves looking for cuts from other teams.

That's the glass half empty argument, and it has a lot of merit. The glass half full part is that there were just 3 other teams in the 32 team league, a list that does not include the SB champs, that had a better regular season record than we did so one could argue that we're not that far away from being a legitimate contender.

I'm truly on the fence with this whole situation with Russell, and for that matter, with Pete Carroll as well.

[NorthHawk]

I don't agree. Yes, Russell has a no cut contract which gives him veto power over any possible trade. But to say that it's 100% up to him assumes that the Seahawks have no influence over his comfort level playing for us. Plus once his current contract is up, a decision by the Hawks will have to be made as to whether or not to let him walk.

What I meant by that is after his contract is up he can walk. It would be unwise to not trade him if he wants to go because the alternative is a 3rd round comp pick the following year for losing him.
It means a decision has to be made after this year or before on whether he stays or not - and Wilson is the final decider on that issue. Unless they just cut him which won't happen. I would guess that
by the half way point of the season we will have a good idea of how well it's working with Waldron and Wilson and if Russ is happier or if Pete is forcing his brand of Offense on the team and frustrating
Wilson and probably others that support Wilson's position.

[RiverDog]

I don't agree. Yes, Russell has a no cut contract which gives him veto power over any possible trade. But to say that it's 100% up to him assumes that the Seahawks have no influence over his comfort level playing for us. Plus once his current contract is up, a decision by the Hawks will have to be made as to whether or not to let him walk.

What I meant by that is after his contract is up he can walk. It would be unwise to not trade him if he wants to go because the alternative is a 3rd round comp pick the following year for losing him.
It means a decision has to be made after this year or before on whether he stays or not - and Wilson is the final decider on that issue. Unless they just cut him which won't happen. I would guess that
by the half way point of the season we will have a good idea of how well it's working with Waldron and Wilson and if Russ is happier or if Pete is forcing his brand of Offense on the team and frustrating
Wilson and probably others that support Wilson's position.

OK, thanks for clarifying that.

I agree that this season could be the fork in the road. IMO Russell's future with is 50/50, could go either way. But I don't think we'll know by mid season. If this season is a carbon copy of 2020, we could run out to a 7-1 record then fall on our faces in the 2nd half and the playoffs. I don't think we'll have a good idea of his fate until January 2022.

[govandals]

Unless Pete turns the keys over to Waldron on offense, I think this is RW's last season here. Pete gave the keys to BS last season but took them back once Russ got careless with the ball. (IMO, Shame on Pete for not letting Russ work through it, even great QB's have bad stretches.) So, based on that, I think it'll be more of the same on offense and Russ will ask for a trade at seasons end. I really hope I'm wrong.

I also think RW's dead hit of 39m was a big reason he was not dealt already.

[RiverDog]

Unless Pete turns the keys over to Waldron on offense, I think this is RW's last season here. Pete gave the keys to BS last season but took them back once Russ got careless with the ball. (IMO, Shame on Pete for not letting Russ work through it, even great QB's have bad stretches.) So, based on that, I think it'll be more of the same on offense and Russ will ask for a trade at seasons end. I really hope I'm wrong.

I also think RW's dead hit of 39m was a big reason he was not dealt already.

I pretty much agree, except that I want to point out our unusual schedule disparity that matched us up against weaker defenses in the early part of the season, which helps explain the success that Russell and our offense had in our first 7 games, and the much tougher defenses we were up against in the back half of the season, which is a good part of the reason for his "bad stretch."

I've been through a lot of these offseasons, more than I want to admit to, and I've been both an optimist and a pessimist with regards to our prospects for the upcoming season. Be they good or bad, seldom are my expectations realized. We have the tendency to view things in a vacuum, in other words, looking at our own club without regard to those around us. Everyone else has their question marks, too. The league is very dynamic, and it's pretty damn difficult to forecast winners and losers in April.

[govandals]

Also, teams began playing 2 high safeties against us later in the year. BS (or Pete?) never really adjusted to that.

[NorthHawk]

Also, teams began playing 2 high safeties against us later in the year. BS (or Pete?) never really adjusted to that.

Yup. I think not adjusting and taking what was there was extremely frustrating. We tried to do the same things even
when they were being largely shut down. It got pretty hard to watch at times.

[Oly]

My thoughts, which don't necessarily result in a nice, coherent conclusion all tied up with a bow:

-RW is one of the best QBs in the league. Mahomes is the only QB I'd want over RW right now (Rogers is old, Allen needs to put a run of seasons together first)
-He deserves better protection and is right to be frustrated with what he's experienced through his career
-He holds on to the ball too long, compounding his protection issues
-His media comments about wanting more big name OL help rubbed me the wrong way a bit because I think he should be taking more responsibility for getting hit so much
-But he's right, the OL talent on this team isn't elite
-He wants more OL help, more superstars, to be the highest paid QB, and doesn't seem to want to restructure to help free cap space....individually, these are justified, but they don't make a lot of sense in league with a salary cap.
-And it's not like JS mismanages the cap, so he can't pull the "well, with a better FO I'd get what I want" card
-His acceptable trade list is bizarre at first glance. But I think he might see the potential benefit of situations differently. Lets say his priorities are winning, $, media exposure, city culture. Maybe he knows he won't win with the Raiders but thinks he can get a huge payday there, so doesn't care. Maybe he sees media exposure with the Cowboys and Bears, and that sets him up for his post-NFL life in ways that are appealing. Maybe he wants to live in New Orleans or just really likes Sean Payton's offense.
-If his team leaked his acceptable trade list, it was a stupid and selfish move. IMO
-I'm glad it's over and am excited to see what he can do with a more creative OC.
-I really want to see him retire a Hawk and join Tez, Jones, Largent, and Easley in the Hawks Pantheon.
-Go Hawks

[govandals]

-I'm glad it's over and am excited to see what he can do with a more creative OC.

I agree with everything except this part, at least for this season anyway.
IMO, It'll be over this year after the draft, or when Kellen Mond is off the board. Mond is the guy I think PCJS might like and won't cost a top 5 pick.

[obiken]

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever seen and shows such a misunderstanding of what a team is capable of doing to hold onto a key player that I don't even know how someone following the NFL can believe this will happen given it really hasn't ever happened with a QB in his prime.

1 I partially agree with your post. 2 I admire what Russ did, he was right. 3 He should have done it different, have a Press Conf and say hey, nothing against anyone of my guys but we have to get more skilled people on the O-line. 4. Its because of PC we were in this mess in the first place. 4. The Chiefs just got Orlando Brown Jr. for draft picks, he is an All Pro, and he is only 24!!! That's what what smart teams do, sorry guy with Paul dying, we are in for a long term period of dumboness!

[RiverDog]

My thoughts, which don't necessarily result in a nice, coherent conclusion all tied up with a bow:

-RW is one of the best QBs in the league. Mahomes is the only QB I'd want over RW right now (Rogers is old, Allen needs to put a run of seasons together first)
-He deserves better protection and is right to be frustrated with what he's experienced through his career
-He holds on to the ball too long, compounding his protection issues
-His media comments about wanting more big name OL help rubbed me the wrong way a bit because I think he should be taking more responsibility for getting hit so much
-But he's right, the OL talent on this team isn't elite
-He wants more OL help, more superstars, to be the highest paid QB, and doesn't seem to want to restructure to help free cap space....individually, these are justified, but they don't make a lot of sense in league with a salary cap.
-And it's not like JS mismanages the cap, so he can't pull the "well, with a better FO I'd get what I want" card
-His acceptable trade list is bizarre at first glance. But I think he might see the potential benefit of situations differently. Lets say his priorities are winning, $, media exposure, city culture. Maybe he knows he won't win with the Raiders but thinks he can get a huge payday there, so doesn't care. Maybe he sees media exposure with the Cowboys and Bears, and that sets him up for his post-NFL life in ways that are appealing. Maybe he wants to live in New Orleans or just really likes Sean Payton's offense.
-If his team leaked his acceptable trade list, it was a stupid and selfish move. IMO
-I'm glad it's over and am excited to see what he can do with a more creative OC.
-I really want to see him retire a Hawk and join Tez, Jones, Largent, and Easley in the Hawks Pantheon.
-Go Hawks

I share a lot of those thoughts. However, I'm not quite with you on a couple of things.

My impression of who leaked Russell's 4 team acceptable trade list was that it came from Russell's agent. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

I'm 50/50 on the complaints about the OL. Yes, it can be improved, just like a lot of other areas on the team, like the DL and our corners. But the OL isn't chopped liver, either. PFF has them ranked pretty much in the middle of the pack. Blocking for Russell is an offensive lineman's nightmare. If upgrading the OL is the the best way to improve our team, then fine, let's pull out the stops and get the best linemen available. But we have to keep our eye on the prize: The Lombardi. Do what ever it takes to increase our chances of team success. I don't want to be sacrificing opportunities to improve our overall chances of winning just to placate one player.

As far as Russell retiring as a Hawk, yes, that would be nice and would be my first choice. Russell seems like a great guy and makes my top 5 list of my favorite, likeable Seahawk players ever. But more so than any one player, I want to see us win another Lombardi. If our chances are better by moving on and trading Russell, then don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya! It's a business, right?

[govandals]

My impression of who leaked Russell's 4 team acceptable trade list was that it came from Russell's agent. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Yes, pretty sure it was Mark Rodgers

[RiverDog]

My impression of who leaked Russell's 4 team acceptable trade list was that it came from Russell's agent. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Yes, pretty sure it was Mark Rodgers

It almost has to have been someone from Russell's camp. There is no logical reason why the Hawks would leak that information. Leaking the list was a strategy designed to put pressure on the Hawks to conceded to Russell's demands.

[NorthHawk]

Russ is image conscious and as such he uses proxies to get his message out. Former players like Branden Marshall, media types like Colin Cowherd, and his agent Mark Rogers.
But make no mistake, it's his viewpoint, not theirs that's being presented by them.

[obiken]

Russ is image conscious and as such he uses proxies to get his message out. Former players like Branden Marshall, media types like Colin Cowherd, and his agent Mark Rogers.
But make no mistake, it's his viewpoint, not theirs that's being presented by them.

Right, and I know its a little overstated to say that I love Russ and River hates him, but River is right on one ugly fact, if Russ wont take pay cuts he loses his right to b****. Moreover, long term, Russ's legacy is going to be affected by this. We lost players after 2013 no doubt, but the biggest reason for our slide, (IMHO) is the big dogs became big cap hogs. Sherm, Bennett, ET, Kam, and of course Bobby, all wanted and got more. The new NFL is Pat-MO taking 7 mill a year, and having a boatload around him. The GOAT is down to peanuts (relatively speaking!) Russ, Aaron, and Benny, have not been willing to do that, and their franchises are going to get left in the dust. My question to all you is, how long will the Union allow this to go on? Its creating an unfair advantage for everyone else, and not allow fair market value competition. This is not the NBA where you only need a star, superstar, and roles players to win a title. You need 22 pretty good players, and dont even get me started on backups. As the Zen Master would say, we'll see.

[Oly]

My impression of who leaked Russell's 4 team acceptable trade list was that it came from Russell's agent. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

That's what I meant when I said "his team"...I meant someone in Russ' orbit.

Do what ever it takes to increase our chances of team success. I don't want to be sacrificing opportunities to improve our overall chances of winning just to placate one player.

...

I want to see us win another Lombardi. If our chances are better by moving on and trading Russell, then don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya! It's a business, right?

I'm right there with you. I just think that the road to a Lombardi is paved by the OL. It's a decent line now (although it has been downright bad in the past), but I think it needs to be better to get another shot at the Lombardi. If we need to move on from Russ' contract to get that line and the better shot at a title, then I agree that would be an easy decision.

[Aseahawkfan]

What team moving on from their franchise QB in his prime years improved their chances of winning a Lombardi? This is the part that it just boggles my mind that people believe will happen. I cannot recall a time where that was ever a plan to improve your chances of winning a Super Bowl. It's more the plan of how to ruin your team for an indefinite period of time.

Yet I see some Seattle fans on this forum making statements like that's some kind of idea to even contemplate. It's literally like the Colts or New England during their great years going, "Hey, let's get rid of Brady because it will improve our chances of winning." Or the Colts fans while Peyton is in his prime saying, "Hey Peyton isn't that important, let's get rid of him to improve our team."

I find it mind boggling that any Seattle fan, any football fan really, would think it was a good idea to trade a franchise QB in his prime coming off a career season. But hey, that's some Seattle fans right now thinking that getting rid of that expensive contract and hoping to find another QB as good as Russell will lead us to another Super Bowl.

Mind boggling.

[RiverDog]

What team moving on from their franchise QB in his prime years improved their chances of winning a Lombardi? This is the part that it just boggles my mind that people believe will happen. I cannot recall a time where that was ever a plan to improve your chances of winning a Super Bowl. It's more the plan of how to ruin your team for an indefinite period of time.

Yet I see some Seattle fans on this forum making statements like that's some kind of idea to even contemplate. It's literally like the Colts or New England during their great years going, "Hey, let's get rid of Brady because it will improve our chances of winning." Or the Colts fans while Peyton is in his prime saying, "Hey Peyton isn't that important, let's get rid of him to improve our team."

I find it mind boggling that any Seattle fan, any football fan really, would think it was a good idea to trade a franchise QB in his prime coming off a career season. But hey, that's some Seattle fans right now thinking that getting rid of that expensive contract and hoping to find another QB as good as Russell will lead us to another Super Bowl.

Mind boggling.

Russell is 32 years old. The 49'ers moved on from Joe Montana when he was 36, and they didn't get squat for him when he left. If the Hawks got something close to what was reported as offered from the Bears for Russell, ie Kahlil Mack, Akeem Hicks, and 3 first rounders, that could substantially increase our chances of winning a Lombardi vs. what they are now. Of course, a lot depends on who replaces Russell (a huge understatement).

I am opposed to trading Russell, even if the aforementioned offer from the Bears were true. But I don't think that you can use a historical reference to argue against such a trade that it would not improve our chances of winning a Lombardi. This is relatively new ground we're walking on. No trade in the history of the NFL, not even the Herschel Walker trade that yielded so much for the Cowboys back in the 90's, could compare with a trade like what the Bears were reportedly ready to offer for Russell.

[c_hawkbob]

Pre-draft presser going on right now and both Pete and John making it clear that there was never any active negotiations to trade Russ and that Russ and Pete have been in closer contact this offseason than any other. They knew what was going to come of Russ' interview and the decision was made to not comment on it and just let the media circus run it's course. John referred to there being a lot to learn from all the things that are said (by others obviously) in such a situation (a thing he learned in Green Bay), I'm assuming things like Russ' agent's list of trade partners and reports of how much teams were willing to give up to get Russ. They're calling a lot of BS on most of the media reporting during the whole episode and saying how proud they are of the team for everyone holding their water and not commenting as it ran it's course.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pre-draft presser going on right now and both Pete and John making it clear that there was never any active negotiations to trade Russ and that Russ and Pete have been in closer contact this offseason than any other. They knew what was going to come of Russ' interview and the decision was made to not comment on it and just let the media circus run it's course. John referred to there being a lot to learn from all the things that are said (by others obviously) in such a situation (a thing he learned in Green Bay), I'm assuming things like Russ' agent's list of trade partners and reports of how much teams were willing to give up to get Russ. They're calling a lot of BS on most of the media reporting during the whole episode and saying how proud they are of the team for everyone holding their water and not commenting as it ran it's course.

I never thought there was much to this, though the team newsletter sure seemed to indicate something was afoot.

Even though something was going on, I knew there was little chance of trading Russ. Even if Pete and/or John were somehow angry, letting emotions lead you down a path to what would have been one of the dumbest moves in NFL team management history (not just Seahawks) is something I can't imagine any competent GM or head coach would do. As a fan I would have immediately wanted both Pete and John fired if that had happened.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russell is 32 years old. The 49'ers moved on from Joe Montana when he was 36, and they didn't get squat for him when he left. If the Hawks got something close to what was reported as offered from the Bears for Russell, ie Kahlil Mack, Akeem Hicks, and 3 first rounders, that could substantially increase our chances of winning a Lombardi vs. what they are now. Of course, a lot depends on who replaces Russell (a huge understatement).

I am opposed to trading Russell, even if the aforementioned offer from the Bears were true. But I don't think that you can use a historical reference to argue against such a trade that it would not improve our chances of winning a Lombardi. This is relatively new ground we're walking on. No trade in the history of the NFL, not even the Herschel Walker trade that yielded so much for the Cowboys back in the 90's, could compare with a trade like what the Bears were reportedly ready to offer for Russell.

What part are you missing about QBs playing into their deep 30s now? Have you seen anything to indicate a QB that hasn't missed a game for 9 years is suddenly going to have health issues? When Joe Montana was traded, he had declining health and played for only another 2 years in KC, neither one a full season. Montana never had Russell's durability and physical preparation standards.

I don't see how you intelligently argue that trading Russell is in any way a good idea. It's a bad idea, RD. You have been watching football for what? 50 years now? You should be one of the people having watched as long as you have knowing that getting rid of franchise QB in his prime is a straight up dumb idea. It would literally be Pete and John committing career suicide unless they struck gold twice finding a second Russell, which is highly unlikely considering Russ is the best QB of what was considered the best QB class since 1983. Andrew Luck gone. RG3 some backup. Ryan Tannehill team hopping at this point. Kirk Cousins team hopping. Branden whatever his name is in Cleveland I'm not even sure is playing. Brock Osweiller backup somewhere. No one was better or more consistent than Russell Wilson from that class. Of recently drafted QBs, only Patrick Mahomes is on the same level. Even he got exposed in the Super Bowl last year and has the same number of trophies as Russ now.

Russ is a unicorn QB. You don't trade your unicorn QB in his prime years. And you damn well know it.

[RiverDog]

I don't see how you intelligently argue that trading Russell is in any way a good idea. It's a bad idea, RD.

You must have missed the part of my post where I said that I was against trading Russell even if the Bears offer were legit.

I am simply saying that should we trade Russell for something like what the Bears supposedly offered, it would be unchartered waters. We can't use examples of teams that walked away from a franchise QB in the prime of their career and succeeded because a trade of that magnitude has never happened. It would be the biggest single player trade in the history of the league and would have the potential of setting us up like the Herschel Walker trade set up Dallas.

[RiverDog]

Pre-draft presser going on right now and both Pete and John making it clear that there was never any active negotiations to trade Russ and that Russ and Pete have been in closer contact this offseason than any other. They knew what was going to come of Russ' interview and the decision was made to not comment on it and just let the media circus run it's course. John referred to there being a lot to learn from all the things that are said (by others obviously) in such a situation (a thing he learned in Green Bay), I'm assuming things like Russ' agent's list of trade partners and reports of how much teams were willing to give up to get Russ. They're calling a lot of BS on most of the media reporting during the whole episode and saying how proud they are of the team for everyone holding their water and not commenting as it ran it's course.

Here's the summary of the aforementioned presser:

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1376008/ ... tWONj4S5mc

I'm not going to go so far as to say that I take it with a grain of salt as I do think that what we heard in the presser is closer to the truth than the rumors that were circulating. However, as Mike Holmgren once said about coaches and GM's, "Everybody lies", especially when we're this close to the draft.

[obiken]

This is the last year of our Window. I think the TE from LA is a major upgrade, but I don't think after this year going forward we can win in this division with all the upgrades all the other teams have made, and will continue to make. I agree with River about getting 3 picks for Russ, with the caveat it depends on what year we get them. Moreover, I agree with C-Bob what good does it do give Pete Carroll draft picks, its like giving a Squirrel a football. At this point I wouldn't trust Pete to get an Ice Cream cone at Dairy Queen.

[Aseahawkfan]

You must have missed the part of my post where I said that I was against trading Russell even if the Bears offer were legit.

I am simply saying that should we trade Russell for something like what the Bears supposedly offered, it would be unchartered waters. We can't use examples of teams that walked away from a franchise QB in the prime of their career and succeeded because a trade of that magnitude has never happened. It would be the biggest single player trade in the history of the league and would have the potential of setting us up like the Herschel Walker trade set up Dallas.

Dallas was Dallas in those years because there was no cap and Jerry would just pay for the best players. Troy Aikman wasn't even that great a QB, but he had Emmitt and a monster defense that Jerry paid for. And a crazy O-line. That was a different time that can't happen in the modern day due to the cap. In the modern day it's the guys who can retain the key talent like a Russ and then put together enough good people to keep it going. So far only Belichick has been able to do that to a level never seen. He don't pay many people and he's a master at drafting, development, and planning. Even if they traded for guys like Khalil Mack, we'd just be paying him Russ money for doing less than Russ to win.

Hell no.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is the last year of our Window. I think the TE from LA is a major upgrade, but I don't think after this year going forward we can win in this division with all the upgrades all the other teams have made, and will continue to make. I agree with River about getting 3 picks for Russ, with the caveat it depends on what year we get them. Moreover, I agree with C-Bob what good does it do give Pete Carroll draft picks, its like giving a Squirrel a football. At this point I wouldn't trust Pete to get an Ice Cream cone at Dairy Queen.

I'll make you a gentleman's bet right now this is not the last year of our window. And a new window is opening up. Russ is still a great QB. He finally has an amazing set of WRs. And if this defense gets rebuilt, it's the other teams in the division that will be crying as all their windows close with all those high draft picks that made them great aging and leaving because they can't pay them.

What upgrades do these teams have? The Rams defense is still fueled by an aging Aaron Donald. They signed Matt Stafford who is an aged QB who can't get it done in the playoffs.

The 49ers are crumbling, not improving. Their move to get Garrapolo didn't work. The only chance they have is that high pick they traded for to get a QB will work.

Cardinals will lose Fitzgerald soon. They have some little running QB that isn't close to as good as Russ who is a few hits away from finding out the Michael Vick thing don't work.

Well, we already have a top flight QB, one of the best in the league. We have a receiver tandem as good as any in the league. Our window is getting opened again. Main thing we need to do is get the defense rebuilt. Offense is looking like they're ready to roll if the defense would just get back to form.

[govandals]

What team moving on from their franchise QB in his prime years improved their chances of winning a Lombardi? This is the part that it just boggles my mind that people believe will happen. I cannot recall a time where that was ever a plan to improve your chances of winning a Super Bowl. It's more the plan of how to ruin your team for an indefinite period of time.

Yet I see some Seattle fans on this forum making statements like that's some kind of idea to even contemplate. It's literally like the Colts or New England during their great years going, "Hey, let's get rid of Brady because it will improve our chances of winning." Or the Colts fans while Peyton is in his prime saying, "Hey Peyton isn't that important, let's get rid of him to improve our team."

I find it mind boggling that any Seattle fan, any football fan really, would think it was a good idea to trade a franchise QB in his prime coming off a career season. But hey, that's some Seattle fans right now thinking that getting rid of that expensive contract and hoping to find another QB as good as Russell will lead us to another Super Bowl.

Mind boggling.

I think your somewhat missing the point.
This is RW driven, all this smoke/fire comes from RW's camp.
This is not PCJS saying "hey lets trade Russ for sh!ts and giggles", or PCJS saying "Let's trade Russ to improve our team"
Yes, having a franchise QB is the best way to win the SB, even if he is making 35-40 mil.
However, RW is clearly unhappy and has an interest in moving on. Hence the 4 team trade list.
You just can't bury your head in the sand thinking all is well, because its not.
What if Waldron is handcuffed and Pete continues to run his 1980's offense?
How go you think RW will feel?
Are you prepared for RW to walk after 2023 and get a 3rd rd comp pick back?
Do you think Pete wants to start over in 2024 with a new/rookie qb when he has 2 years left on his deal?
Is it best to maximize what you can get for Russ now or even after 2021?
Pete and John did a good job glossing things over today in the pre-draft presser, however I don't think it's all sunshine and rainbows.

And FWIW, I am not anti-Russ. He is a top 5 qb in the NFL right now and maybe the greatest Seahawk ever. Their best chance to win another Super Bowl in the next few years is with RW.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think your somewhat missing the point.
This is RW driven, all this smoke/fire comes from RW's camp.
This is not PCJS saying "hey lets trade Russ for sh!ts and giggles", or PCJS saying "Let's trade Russ to improve our team"
Yes, having a franchise QB is the best way to win the SB, even if he is making 35-40 mil.
However, RW is clearly unhappy and has an interest in moving on. Hence the 4 team trade list.
You just can't bury your head in the sand thinking all is well, because its not.
What if Waldron is handcuffed and Pete continues to run his 1980's offense?
How go you think RW will feel?
Are you prepared for RW to walk after 2023 and get a 3rd rd comp pick back?
Do you think Pete wants to start over in 2024 with a new/rookie qb when he has 2 years left on his deal?
Is it best to maximize what you can get for Russ now or even after 2021?
Pete and John did a good job glossing things over today in the pre-draft presser, however I don't think it's all sunshine and rainbows.

And FWIW, I am not anti-Russ. He is a top 5 qb in the NFL right now and maybe the greatest Seahawk ever. Their best chance to win another Super Bowl in the next few years is with RW.

It's not about being anti or pro-Russ. It's about the Seahawks management being dumb. I'm sorry. I just can't imagine a team every being so dumb as to trade a franchise QB in his prime. It's BS. No team I know has done it. I literally see no one on here bringing up all these times that teams have traded franchise QBs in their prime and improved. Why aren't they bringing it up? Let me answer that: because it doesn't happen.

Teams have plenty of tools to keep franchise players. And I don't see the team trading Russell or Russell being able to force a trade. If he wanted to retire and do nothing, then ok. But the Seattle Seahawks have literally never been forced into a trade by any of their unhappy players, even ones not as valuable as a franchise QB. So why would they do it now? Why would a team management that has proven they won't be forced into anything suddenly be forced into trading or cutting Russ?

It's not gonna happen. It was never gonna happen. I don't get people even contemplating it because it would be unprecedented, not just for Seattle, but for any team. I'm sorry, but I don't want to believe our team is managed by people that would be that dumb. I don't see why any Seattle fan would think Pete and John were that dumb.

It's a franchise QB. People spend multiple first round picks just to move up to draft a top rated QB prospect. And I've never seen someone orchestrate a trade for a franchise QB in his prime. It's so mind bogglingly insane that I can't even think of what the trade value it would take to get it done. Once you find that franchise QB who makes you playoff competitive year in and year out, you don't let that dude go until you're damn sure his best years are behind him.

I just don't get Seattle fans who think this is going to happen when they can't even produce examples of when this has happened. It's like they're expecting Seattle to be so poorly fun that they would engage in a trade that no one in my nearly 40 years of watching football has done. Where are they getting this from? Why would they think Seattle management would do this? What example do they have of a team doing this? Much less a Seattle team who refused to trade Kam, Earl, Sherm, and Marshawn when they did much worse than Russ maybe doing something behind the scenes, but no real proof of it.

It doesn't make sense on any level.

I'll give you the chance just like I've done everyone else. Go look it up. Go search. Go find all those times that teams have let a QB of Russ's quality in his prime just walk away. That will tell you how much I worry about Russ leaving with no compensation. It should tell you and all other fans thinking that will happen how much they should worry. None of what you wrote is even a concern in my mind.

[RiverDog]

Dallas was Dallas in those years because there was no cap and Jerry would just pay for the best players. Troy Aikman wasn't even that great a QB, but he had Emmitt and a monster defense that Jerry paid for. And a crazy O-line. That was a different time that can't happen in the modern day due to the cap. In the modern day it's the guys who can retain the key talent like a Russ and then put together enough good people to keep it going. So far only Belichick has been able to do that to a level never seen. He don't pay many people and he's a master at drafting, development, and planning. Even if they traded for guys like Khalil Mack, we'd just be paying him Russ money for doing less than Russ to win.

Hell no.

Like I said, I am not advocating a trade, at least not this season.

And as you pointed out, the landscape is different than what it was when Dallas pulled off the Herschel Walker trade in the early 90's. Because there is a salary structure and cap, teams cannot randomly buy proven talent via the free agent market, which means a higher premium is placed on draft choices and rookie contracts. That's the major factor that allowed Pete to build his "Legion of Boom", because he struck it rich when he picked Russell in the 3rd round and had him on a rookie contract for his first 3 years. He also had two top 15 draft picks in his first season, one of which he parlayed into a future HOF'er, the other a Pro Bowl LT.

In other words, we can't compare a potential Russell Wilson trade with any other trade as nothing like it has happened under these current conditions.

[TriCitySam]

Pre-draft presser going on right now and both Pete and John making it clear that there was never any active negotiations to trade Russ and that Russ and Pete have been in closer contact this offseason than any other. They knew what was going to come of Russ' interview and the decision was made to not comment on it and just let the media circus run it's course. John referred to there being a lot to learn from all the things that are said (by others obviously) in such a situation (a thing he learned in Green Bay), I'm assuming things like Russ' agent's list of trade partners and reports of how much teams were willing to give up to get Russ. They're calling a lot of BS on most of the media reporting during the whole episode and saying how proud they are of the team for everyone holding their water and not commenting as it ran it's course.

They thought some of the reporting was BS, but did acknowledge that RW was unhappy with his protection and that spurred apparently a number of conversations between RW and PC, and JS with RW's agent. But they have always had a good rapport, and we assume that will continue.

It will be interesting to see what changes Waldren makes, but I'm not one to call Pete's a 1980's offense. The RP ratio was pretty high, even in the last 1/2 of the season and I continue to believe that a balanced attack continues to be the best formula....how you manage that is open to debate.

[NorthHawk]

They’re obviously downplaying it. Unless Russ is an extraordinarily sensitive person- which he isn’t, he would not have
taken to almost burning bridges by listing teams he would accept a trade to. That doesn’t happen if things are overblown
and concerns minor. If he re-signs a longer term deal, or restructures his contract for extra Cap Space by next year,
then we can say this is over, but if he doesn’t then he’s probably done in Seattle.