Offensive Identity

[mykc14]

Who would have thought that we would be talking about offensive issues with this team a month ago? The D really looks to be playing better but our offense is bad right now. We have no identity. I have said this a lot but we run when we should have thrown and throw when we should have run. We have too many good athletes on offense to be this bad. We don't have an offensive identity. I was shocked at how little we ran yesterday. I want Russ to Cook as much as anybody else, but the Giants were not going to let him. We need to make teams pay for playing a 2 deep shell against us by running the ball down their throats. We have not been able to adjust to what teams are doing against us lately. Russ looks lost way too often for how good he is. I have always thought he has an issue reading a D pre-snap. There are way too many times he looks confused right after the ball is snapped. I know teams struggle on offense from time to time. The Chiefs O didn't look great against a mediocre D yesterday. The Packers have looked bad on offense a few times this year as well, so I don't want to over-react, but yesterday was pathetic. What Defenses have been able to to our offense in our losses this year is shocking. RW has looked like an MVP for many games and like Blake Bortles for a few games. You just don't see that with other QB's. Is the issue Russ? Schotty? It needs to be fixed ASAP!!

[RiverDog]

Who would have thought that we would be talking about offensive issues with this team a month ago? The D really looks to be playing better but our offense is bad right now. We have no identity. I have said this a lot but we run when we should have thrown and throw when we should have run. We have too many good athletes on offense to be this bad. We don't have an offensive identity. I was shocked at how little we ran yesterday. I want Russ to Cook as much as anybody else, but the Giants were not going to let him. We need to make teams pay for playing a 2 deep shell against us by running the ball down their throats. We have not been able to adjust to what teams are doing against us lately. Russ looks lost way too often for how good he is. I have always thought he has an issue reading a D pre-snap. There are way too many times he looks confused right after the ball is snapped. I know teams struggle on offense from time to time. The Chiefs O didn't look great against a mediocre D yesterday. The Packers have looked bad on offense a few times this year as well, so I don't want to over-react, but yesterday was pathetic. What Defenses have been able to to our offense in our losses this year is shocking. RW has looked like an MVP for many games and like Blake Bortles for a few games. You just don't see that with other QB's. Is the issue Russ? Schotty? It needs to be fixed ASAP!!

Like I mentioned in another thread, our offense was way out of balance. In the prior game against the Eagles, our run/pass ration was right at 1:1, but yesterday, it was closer to 3:1 even though it was a close, low scoring game with our defense pitching a shutout in the first half and despite the fact that we were getting decent production out of the running plays we did call. Additionally, we didn't have hardly any offensive penalties, the only accepted ones on the offense that I could find was a false start on Hollister and Russell's intentional grounding. No killer holding penalties that put us in big holes and dictate the play calling.

I can't explain why Shotty was so adverse to calling running plays yesterday. If he had Carson on a pitch count, then why did Hyde have just 2 carries? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

[obiken]

We dont have an Offensive Identity. We went from Run the ball and Play Action off that, to Let Russ Cook, to I dont have a clue right now. We have to get back to Seahawk Football. The problem is we dont have the Offensive line to be pounding the Rock on good teams.

[RiverDog]

We dont have an Offensive Identity. We went from Run the ball and Play Action off that, to Let Russ Cook, to I dont have a clue right now. We have to get back to Seahawk Football. The problem is we dont have the Offensive line to be pounding the Rock on good teams.

Boy, Obi, you're really down on the OL. I get it, they're not the Hogs of John Riggins fame. But they're not the chopped liver you're making them out to be. As a matter of fact, our offense is ranked 7th in yards per rushing attempt.

[Hawktawk]

Boy, Obi, you're really down on the OL. I get it, they're not the Hogs of John Riggins fame. But they're not the chopped liver you're making them out to be. As a matter of fact, our offense is ranked 7th in yards per rushing attempt.

If Carson hadn't been hurt (again) our YPC might be #1. Hyde was nursing a turf toe and wasn't nearly the guy he was a week ago. Whats up with Dee Jay? didn't he have a 2 TD game?
The great coaches adjust their teams "identity" offensively week to week and adjust in game as needed. Schottie was as good as anyone first 5 weeks but he's called some clunkers, last week vs AZ being a notable exception.

But let's face it. Our identity since the 2012 draft has been Russ Wilson being a ninja. Lately he hasn't been and our identity is a weak disjointed offense with a mediocre turnover prone QB. I hope we figure it out.

[RiverDog]

If Carson hadn't been hurt (again) our YPC might be #1. Hyde was nursing a turf toe and wasn't nearly the guy he was a week ago. Whats up with Dee Jay? didn't he have a 2 TD game?

The great coaches adjust their teams "identity" offensively week to week and adjust in game as needed. Schottie was as good as anyone first 5 weeks but he's called some clunkers, last week vs AZ being a notable exception.

But let's face it. Our identity since the 2012 draft has been Russ Wilson being a ninja. Lately he hasn't been and our identity is a weak disjointed offense with a mediocre turnover prone QB. I hope we figure it out.

Beast had over 1500 total yards in both 2013 and 2014, so our offense was a little more than Russell being a ninja.

[Hawktawk]

Beast had over 1500 total yards in both 2013 and 2014, so our offense was a little more than Russell being a ninja.

Point tasken. Still Russ has put up historic numbers behind almost perennially bad lines.

[RiverDog]

Point tasken. Still Russ has put up historic numbers behind almost perennially bad lines.

Well, I wouldn't call Russ's numbers "historic", but I agree with your premise. Russell performed extremely well when you take into consideration how bad some of those OL's of ours were. But the times have changed. Russell is 32 years old, and despite being in excellent physical condition, he's a year or two past the physical peak of his athletic career. He's no longer the quintessential read option QB that he was when he first broke into the league.

I honestly don't know what to think about Russell. It's pretty evident that our offensive game plan was wholly inadequate and that we made no attempt to adjust to the flow of the game. Any quarterback is going to be more effective when there's a viable running threat present, and we just plain didn't run the ball enough. But even so, Russell was holding onto the ball way too long. It could be that the coverage was that good to where he didn't have any options. But my sense is that it was more due to Russell's homing in on one receiver, Metcalf, and/or looking for the home run opportunity, a problem he had a few years ago. Either that or the pass rush has gotten to his head, which would explain the happy feet and panicked looks.

[mykc14]

I honestly don't know what to think about Russell. It's pretty evident that our offensive game plan was wholly inadequate and that we made no attempt to adjust to the flow of the game. Any quarterback is going to be more effective when there's a viable running threat present, and we just plain didn't run the ball enough. But even so, Russell was holding onto the ball way too long. It could be that the coverage was that good to where he didn't have any options. But my sense is that it was more due to Russell's homing in on one receiver, Metcalf, and/or looking for the home run opportunity, a problem he had a few years ago. Either that or the pass rush has gotten to his head, which would explain the happy feet and panicked looks.

I really do feel like our offense lacks imagination. I have heard more than one analyst look at our route combinations and question their creativity. Also, I think we become too predictable too quickly. A perfect example is our 2nd and 7+ play calling. Before this season we were by far the league leader in running in those situations at a nearly 40% clip. This year we have been the least likely to run in those situations now down to about 20% and it was far less earlier in the year. It's like we completely over adjust. We go from a 53-47 pass to run ration to a 65-35, from one of the lowest pass-run ratios to the highest for the first part of the year. Granted it worked for us at first but we are just too slow to adjust and not very calibrated in our adjustments. I know it is not the same at all but I go through the same process as a HS coach. We have had a lot of turnover each year and basically our schedule consists of 2-3 games of finding our identity to start the year, then 2-3 games where we play pretty well, then 1-2 games where we have to make an adjustment and then we go on a run until we are out of adjustments. We don't have the most talent but it's been successful for us. At the HS level teams have so much film on you that you typically have to keep adjusting what you do every four to five games, unless you just have more talent than the other team. In the NFL they have way more film and are way better at exploiting weaknesses so I imagine you should be adjusting more. I'm not talking about major adjustments but doing different things out of the same look, analyzing your tendencies, not becoming predictable. With that being said looking at our game-plan, the Giants defensive strengths/weaknesses, and our RB/OL situation I can see why we passed more this game than the previous few. My issue was with the type of pass routes. Either we didn't adjust to the defensive look they were giving us or RW was bypassing easy shorter passes for something bigger way too much. At the end of the day we moved the ball ok, but had way too many negative plays, especially near mid-field and that to me is more of a tendency thing.

[mykc14]

One worry I have now is that we will over-adjust to the run, because it seems like that is what we do- over adjust. We want to take deep shots with our PA passes, but our tendencies show that we don't run in the situations where we are trying to get the D to bite on play-action, so the play action doesn't work! We have time to fix it, but it's not going to be a simple adjustment. We are fighting against 12 weeks of tendencies and it's not as simple as now we just start running when we would have passed and pass when we would have run.

[RiverDog]

I really do feel like our offense lacks imagination. I have heard more than one analyst look at our route combinations and question their creativity. Also, I think we become too predictable too quickly. A perfect example is our 2nd and 7+ play calling. Before this season we were by far the league leader in running in those situations at a nearly 40% clip. This year we have been the least likely to run in those situations now down to about 20% and it was far less earlier in the year. It's like we completely over adjust. We go from a 53-47 pass to run ration to a 65-35, from one of the lowest pass-run ratios to the highest for the first part of the year. Granted it worked for us at first but we are just too slow to adjust and not very calibrated in our adjustments. I know it is not the same at all but I go through the same process as a HS coach. We have had a lot of turnover each year and basically our schedule consists of 2-3 games of finding our identity to start the year, then 2-3 games where we play pretty well, then 1-2 games where we have to make an adjustment and then we go on a run until we are out of adjustments. We don't have the most talent but it's been successful for us. At the HS level teams have so much film on you that you typically have to keep adjusting what you do every four to five games, unless you just have more talent than the other team. In the NFL they have way more film and are way better at exploiting weaknesses so I imagine you should be adjusting more. I'm not talking about major adjustments but doing different things out of the same look, analyzing your tendencies, not becoming predictable. With that being said looking at our game-plan, the Giants defensive strengths/weaknesses, and our RB/OL situation I can see why we passed more this game than the previous few. My issue was with the type of pass routes. Either we didn't adjust to the defensive look they were giving us or RW was bypassing easy shorter passes for something bigger way too much. At the end of the day we moved the ball ok, but had way too many negative plays, especially near mid-field and that to me is more of a tendency thing.

The over adjust seems to happen from one game to the next. In the previous game vs. the Eagles, one that was similar to the Giants game in that it was relatively low scoring, we pass the ball 31 times, run it 30 times. In the Giants game, we end up passing 43 times and run the ball 22 times, with 7 of those carries being Russell's scrambles.

As far as our passing schemes goes, one of the things I've noticed is that we seem to be missing Greg Olsen more than we might have realized. We don't seem to throw the ball to our tight ends on vertical routes down the middle of the field anymore. Most passes to our tight ends seem to go outside the numbers and parallel to the LOS before they can get turned upfield.

[obiken]

As far as our passing schemes goes, one of the things I've noticed is that we seem to be missing Greg Olsen more than we might have realized. We don't seem to throw the ball to our tight ends on vertical routes down the middle of the field anymore. Most passes to our tight ends seem to go outside the numbers and parallel to the LOS before they can get turned upfield.

No question G. O. is a loss, but not having guys that can block is a bigger concern. The Giants manhandled our OLine all game long, Greg Olsen is not going to help that River.

[mykc14]

As far as our passing schemes goes, one of the things I've noticed is that we seem to be missing Greg Olsen more than we might have realized. We don't seem to throw the ball to our tight ends on vertical routes down the middle of the field anymore. Most passes to our tight ends seem to go outside the numbers and parallel to the LOS before they can get turned upfield.

Yeah no doubt Olsen was somebody that RW trusted, especially on third down. He is a savvy veteran who I am sure knew how to find holes in zones, especially down the middle of the field. Dissly has been pretty explosive as a receiving threat his whole career, which has obviously been limited due to injury. I really expected more out of him this season. Maybe he'll get it going at some point but it's a little late in the season to expect anything to change for him right now. I also imagine that alot of his success in the past few years has come off of play-action which hasn't been nearly as successful this season as it has in years past.

[Hawktawk]

Its a team game. Everyone on offense other than a few people were off. Russ's pick off Carson's hands was too high and seemed to handcuff him a bit but its the show kid. Gotta squeeze that.Russ generally misses high and hung out Lockette on the sideline route with a high ball there to take a tremendous hit. It should've been a flag IMO.

He missed DK on the crosser by not much. Maybe a bit of a hold missed but if you can bench press an NFL player into the ground with one hand you gotta make the play there DK. The great ones fight that off .

Both plays were in scoring range had they been completed in a 5 point loss. Hollister had been better than he was last game, he was quite effective late last year with no help at the position. Dissley was also wide open with great hands before getting hurt every year. Hyde was injured and was questionable with a toe and having toe issues is probably one of the worst injuries a skill person can have. You go from running 4.5 to 4.7 and your dead meat. It was probably too painful after a couple of carries.
As bad as it was it could have been a win with one more play made, one less bad play. If they lose to the Jets I'm off the bandwagon for the year, they are doomed. Even if they backed in they are not going to advance if they cant beat this team. With the rise of WA under Rivera its 3 strong opponents to finish and I believe all 3 have a chance of beating last weeks team, maybe all 4 of them.

I think the Philly game is the model, balance. Plenty of options underneath to get it out quick . max protect when taking a shot with a long ball. Pound the rock with Carson and a committee.
Thats a Dec Jan formula.

[trents]

I think one factor is that some of the teams with poor win/loss records are starting to get better as the season progresses. They're learning how to play and several years of early round draft picks because these teams have been bad for multiple seasons is finally beginning to pay off for some of them. Their deep talent pool is finally starting to pay dividends as they gain experience. And some, like the niners, were affected more drastically by the COVID intrusion more than others with postponed games, closed facilities etc., though that has not been a problem for the Hawks. But the Giants have an excellent defense and our O Line was really dinged up again for that game. Carson has missed so much time over the years with injuries and some bad ones. I wonder if he's just lost something.

[NorthHawk]

According to Pete, Carson isn't 100% and they are limiting his action.
I get the feeling that Hyde is in a similar state.

[RiverDog]

I think one factor is that some of the teams with poor win/loss records are starting to get better as the season progresses. They're learning how to play and several years of early round draft picks because these teams have been bad for multiple seasons is finally beginning to pay off for some of them. Their deep talent pool is finally starting to pay dividends as they gain experience. And some, like the niners, were affected more drastically by the COVID intrusion more than others with postponed games, closed facilities etc., though that has not been a problem for the Hawks. But the Giants have an excellent defense and our O Line was really dinged up again for that game. Carson has missed so much time over the years with injuries and some bad ones. I wonder if he's just lost something.

That's true. The landscape is changing. The Giants have now won 4 in a row. They've been flying under the radar as their three prior wins came against Washington, the Eagles, and the Bengals. Washington has won 3 in a row, but their previous two were against the Cowboys and Bengals, so no one took much notice. The Cleveland Browns are 9-3 and could challenge the Steelers for their division title. Once Brees went down, I expected the Saints to falter, but they're still sitting at 10-2 and in the driver's seat for HFA. Our league's easiest schedule a few weeks ago is looking a lot tougher than it appeared before Turkey Day.

That's why I don't get too excited about projecting playoff scenarios until after Thanksgiving weekend. Too much can happen that can change the picture dramatically, and there's been no greater example of that phenomena than this season.

[trents]

Yes, it is a "changing landscape." The league is constantly in flux and with COVID it's more exaggerated this year. We can be guilty of over-simplifying a team's unexpected loss, reducing it to the poor performance of one or two players or one or two factors when in reality there were a number of factors that played into it, some of which are outside of what is going on with the team itself. With the Hawks, one of those was the soft early season schedule which had us playing against teams that at that time at least, were struggling. Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Maybe early in the season we were not as good as the W/L record indicated and we as the fan base got ahead of ourselves. I think the narrow margin of victory in those early games against struggling teams may suggest this. Maybe it was not a matter of not playing up to our potential or playing down to the level of our oponent.

[mykc14]

With the Hawks, one of those was the soft early season schedule which had us playing against teams that at that time at least, were struggling. Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Maybe early in the season we were not as good as the W/L record indicated and we as the fan base got ahead of ourselves. I think the narrow margin of victory in those early games against struggling teams may suggest this. Maybe it was not a matter of not playing up to our potential or playing down to the level of our oponent.

Often times in the NFL it's not just who you play but when you play them. The Giants were struggling early in the season and now they are hot, same with the Redskins. The Falcons had a good stretch there in the middle of the season, but were bad when we played them. The Jets are playing their best football. If our offense can figure things out and not completely over-correct then we have a chance to do something special still, if not then we are one and done in the playoffs. The only thing this loss really does is puts that #1 seed basically out of reach- which is a big deal but not the end of the world. It also makes that #2 seed difficult. At the end of the day we need to play better if we want to win this thing and if this was the wake-up call we needed then it could be good, but it's always better to learn a lesson and win than it is to learn a lesson and lose. In some ways it is sort of like our defense. After the niner game everybody thought everything was fixed and then we play terrible defensively against the Bills and for half of the Rams game, now we seem to be back on track (I do have some reservations because we haven't played a good offense since then, but we do seem to be playing better). The offense seemed better against the Eagles but then struggled against a good Giants defense. Make the appropriate adjustments and we should be OK...

[trents]

Some good observations, mykc14.

Another conviction I have is that your asking for trouble if you are thin at RB and OL. Seems to me those positions get more injuries than the others and you just can't have too many good backs and O linemen in the stable.

[obiken]

The problem is Trents, Our OL was a weakness when were won the SB, but we had Unger and Okung who were anchors. Now with all the ham and eggers we have, if we loose one piece of ham, we are dead meat. I think our OL is a farce, its the only major difference of Opinion I have with River. Our OLine got mugged last Sunday, 5 sacks, and 66 yards rushing by our RB's, I am about to give up and accept this as the PC reality.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Yes, it is a "changing landscape." The league is constantly in flux and with COVID it's more exaggerated this year. We can be guilty of over-simplifying a team's unexpected loss, reducing it to the poor performance of one or two players or one or two factors when in reality there were a number of factors that played into it, some of which are outside of what is going on with the team itself. With the Hawks, one of those was the soft early season schedule which had us playing against teams that at that time at least, were struggling. Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Maybe early in the season we were not as good as the W/L record indicated and we as the fan base got ahead of ourselves. I think the narrow margin of victory in those early games against struggling teams may suggest this. Maybe it was not a matter of not playing up to our potential or playing down to the level of our oponent.

The number 2 seed this year is no longer a playoff bye week. The NFL has made it a 7-team playoff this year with only the #
1 seed getting the bye and HFA. Still have a really good chance of getting in, but I am afraid we look like a one-and-done playoff team right now.

[mykc14]

The problem is Trents, Our OL was a weakness when were won the SB, but we had Unger and Okung who were anchors. Now with all the ham and eggers we have, if we loose one piece of ham, we are dead meat. I think our OL is a farce, its the only major difference of Opinion I have with River. Our OLine got mugged last Sunday, 5 sacks, and 66 yards rushing by our RB's, I am about to give up and accept this as the PC reality.

Obi you can’t just look at stats without qualifying them and come to an overarching conclusion like our OL sucked. You’ve got to look at other things. Take the 66 rushing yards by RB’s. Without the context that those came on 15 carries you can’t come to any reasonable conclusion about our OL. What if we got 120 yards rushing on 30 carries- that would be pretty good, right? You also have to look at the sacks- how much time did RW have to throw? If he’s getting sacks in under 2 seconds on a 4 man rush I would agree with you, but that wasn’t the case on Sunday. Furthermore, if the OL is that bad why didn’t our offense adjust? It was clear from Wheeler’s first play that he was outmatched out there so what did we do help? Did we chip with a TE or RB? Did we run the ball to slow the pass rush? No, I counted 1 time we chipped with our TE, that’s it. The rest were drop back passes. Our in ability to adjust on the fly is frustrating.

[Hawktawk]

According to Pete, Carson isn't 100% and they are limiting his action.
I get the feeling that Hyde is in a similar state.

Hyde has a toe issue. My guess is turf toe which is debilitating for any skill player. He looked great against Philly, by far his best game as a Hawk so probably sustained it after that game.

[Hawktawk]

The problem is Trents, Our OL was a weakness when were won the SB, but we had Unger and Okung who were anchors. Now with all the ham and eggers we have, if we loose one piece of ham, we are dead meat. I think our OL is a farce, its the only major difference of Opinion I have with River. Our OLine got mugged last Sunday, 5 sacks, and 66 yards rushing by our RB's, I am about to give up and accept this as the PC reality.

The line we had for the actual SB 48 game was one of the best of the PC era. It was a mess most of the regular season with injuries but Breno Giacomini cleaned up his penalties and kept his mean streak, Okung was far above average, Unger was considered one of the better centers in the league etc. Still Russ was in constant duress in the SB, Lynch was held to 38 yards and 1 TD yet it was a 43-8 win.

Russ's performance in that SB is one of the more underrated in SB history IMO. I get why with the defense playing like they did. But the D getting to rest up during sustained drive after sustained drive with a qb who made no mistakes, bailed out a couple of DOA befool plays and whose offense didn't punt till late in the 3rd quarter was as huge a factor in that win as anything.
It's who we've seen wearing #3 most of his career, a houdini.

That's what makes this stretch so bad. I see the line last Sunday as so so. I put about 2.5 of the 5 sacks on Russ due to holding the ball and running himself into the sack. Our backs averaged 5 YPC playing dinged up.Thats above average run blocking.

That game was on Russ. He's been one degree or another bad in every loss regardless of his line. Hes thrown picks clean as a whistle in the pocket, careless throws I've never seen him make. I feel he's the main difference in our 3 losses out of 5. I dont want to contemplate a future without him but all you gotta do is look at Wendz to see how NFL can mean not for long for guys who played at a high level until the hits piled up.

[RiverDog]

The line we had for the actual SB 48 game was one of the best of the PC era. It was a mess most of the regular season with injuries but Breno Giacomini cleaned up his penalties and kept his mean streak, Okung was far above average, Unger was considered one of the better centers in the league etc. Still Russ was in constant duress in the SB, Lynch was held to 38 yards and 1 TD yet it was a 43-8 win.

Russ's performance in that SB is one of the more underrated in SB history IMO. I get why with the defense playing like they did. But the D getting to rest up during sustained drive after sustained drive with a qb who made no mistakes, bailed out a couple of DOA befool plays and whose offense didn't punt till late in the 3rd quarter was as huge a factor in that win as anything.
It's who we've seen wearing #3 most of his career, a houdini.

That's what makes this stretch so bad. I see the line last Sunday as so so. I put about 2.5 of the 5 sacks on Russ due to holding the ball and running himself into the sack. Our backs averaged 5 YPC playing dinged up.Thats above average run blocking.

That game was on Russ. He's been one degree or another bad in every loss regardless of his line. Hes thrown picks clean as a whistle in the pocket, careless throws I've never seen him make. I feel he's the main difference in our 3 losses out of 5. I dont want to contemplate a future without him but all you gotta do is look at Wendz to see how NFL can mean not for long for guys who played at a high level until the hits piled up.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Hawktalk, although I'm hesitant to lump that much blame on Russell without being able to see why he was holding onto the ball so long last Sunday. If he had options available, then yes, he deserves it. But if there wasn't any daylight between our receivers and the DB's, then he doesn't. Receivers have to work to create space and coaches have to make the right calls to put our players in the best position to succeed.

[TriCitySam]

Stat I heard today, RW is 13th of 16 NFC QB's in 3rd down conversions. Obviously you have to be better on 1st and 2nd. And the holding the ball looking for big shots plays a part in that. I'm hoping for more runs and play action.

[Hawktawk]

Stat I heard today, RW is 13th of 16 NFC QB's in 3rd down conversions. Obviously you have to be better on 1st and 2nd. And the holding the ball looking for big shots okays a part in that. I'm hoping for more runs and play action.

wow, 13th of 16th? I knew it was bad but not that bad. Early in the season I doubt we were in 3rd down much but something is just off. He used to be deadly vs the blitz too but he's been getting swallowed up lately.

[Hawktawk]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Hawktalk, although I'm hesitant to lump that much blame on Russell without being able to see why he was holding onto the ball so long last Sunday. If he had options available, then yes, he deserves it. But if there wasn't any daylight between our receivers and the DB's, then he doesn't. Receivers have to work to create space and coaches have to make the right calls to put our players in the best position to succeed.

Watching the game there were plays Russ got sacked when guys were open. I saw him throw to covered guys with others open. It was a truly bad game. Add in fumbling and losing a good snap from Pocic at the 50 on 3rd and a short 1 leading to a quick Giants score blowing the game open. These are shocking mistakes to be seeing Russ making. I hope its a blip on the radar screen.

[RiverDog]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Hawktalk, although I'm hesitant to lump that much blame on Russell without being able to see why he was holding onto the ball so long last Sunday. If he had options available, then yes, he deserves it. But if there wasn't any daylight between our receivers and the DB's, then he doesn't. Receivers have to work to create space and coaches have to make the right calls to put our players in the best position to succeed.

Watching the game there were plays Russ got sacked when guys were open. I saw him throw to covered guys with others open. It was a truly bad game. Add in fumbling and losing a good snap from Pocic at the 50 on 3rd and a short 1 leading to a quick Giants score blowing the game open. These are shocking mistakes to be seeing Russ making. I hope its a blip on the radar screen.

I'm not going to argue with your assessment as I think it's a reasonable take. But I still want to point out that our run/pass ratio was out of balance, that given the low scoring game, we should have ran the ball more, and that we can't lump on Russ.

We might be over analyzing both this last game and Russell. He/we had a bad game. It happens. It's not the end of the season for us, but especially with the way the Rams looked last night, it's imperative that we get this thing turned around now. We lose to the Jets and we can pretty much write off any reasonable chance of post season success.