Giants

[TriCitySam]

Boy, we seem to have issues with zone D’s at times (uh, they’re playing some man and not so good there either)

[Aseahawkfan]

What a pathetic showing.

[TriCitySam]

We make bad 4th down calls. North and South!

[Aseahawkfan]

This is not a Super Bowl team at all, not even within sniffing distance. Pathetic.

[RiverDog]

This game sucks. Rams are winning, looks like we're back to 2nd place. So much for HFA.

[mykc14]

Worst loss of the PC era...

[RiverDog]

Worst loss of the PC era...

Not sure about that, but it was ugly.

[TriCitySam]

RW has had more bad performances than good ones this year. I know he’s focused on “being the best of all time”, but instead of visualization maybe he needs to concentrate on execution.

[mykc14]

Not sure about that, but it was ugly.

Based on team records and the impact of the game... I think it might be. It wasn’t our ugliest game, or most lop sided loss or anything, but it is a game with a huge impact. The ineptitude of our offense was frustrating.

[obiken]

Its over, period.

[mykc14]

RW has had more bad performances than good ones this year. I know he’s focused on “being the best of all time”, but instead of visualization maybe he needs to concentrate on execution.

Yeah he did not play well this game. The offense was bad all around. Way too many negative plays. How many 3rd and 10+ did we find ourselves in? We were just out of sync offensively all game.

[mykc14]

Its over, period.

I wouldn’t go that far... we beat a winless Bucs team in OT the year we won the SB. But we’ve got to figure crap out.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russ has fallen off a cliff and it's hard to tell why. Why would he go from being on fire to garbage? Hard to explain. What are they doing differently now?

[mykc14]

Russ has fallen off a cliff and it's hard to tell why. Why would he go from being on fire to garbage? Hard to explain. What are they doing differently now?

It could be the pressure he has faced, not that it’s been terrible but he gets hit way more than other good QB’s. Is that his fault or the OL? Probably a bit of both but at the end of the day he needs to play better. I’ve always thought that maybe he’s not as he as the great QBs at reading stuff pre-snap, but it’s hard to say what’s going on for sure.

[TriCitySam]

Russ has fallen off a cliff and it's hard to tell why. Why would he go from being on fire to garbage? Hard to explain. What are they doing differently now?

Maybe he needs to forget about MVP, his new perfume, his let Russ cook marketing and his team of "advisors" and focus on execution.

[obiken]

Not sure about that, but it was ugly.

Thats what people are calling it River, and I agree; its the worse Regular Season loss in the Pete Carroll era.

[RiverDog]

Russ has fallen off a cliff and it's hard to tell why. Why would he go from being on fire to garbage? Hard to explain. What are they doing differently now?

This has been a whacky year, with no preseason and no crowds. Perhaps with Russell, being as experienced as he is and with mostly familiar faces at WR and TE, had an advantage over defenses. League wide, offenses ran wild in the first half of the season, but they seem to have come back to Earth here lately.

[RiverDog]

Its over, period.

Not hardly. A lot can happen between now and February.

[obiken]

Our OLine is warmed over garbage, we cant block anybody.

[c_hawkbob]

Well today sucked didn't it?

[Rambo2014]

ROTFLMAO

HAHhHh

u GUYS THOT YOU WRE THE COCK OF THE WALK ???? LOL

RAMS WON AND BACK ON TOP

[RiverDog]

Russ has fallen off a cliff and it's hard to tell why. Why would he go from being on fire to garbage? Hard to explain. What are they doing differently now?

This has been a whacky year, with no preseason and no crowds. Perhaps with Russell, being as experienced as he is and with mostly familiar faces at WR and TE, had an advantage over defenses. League wide, offenses ran wild in the first half of the season, but they seem to have come back to Earth here lately.

To piggyback off the above comments, the Chiefs didn't exactly blow the doors off of the Broncos last night, either, scoring just one TD against a run-of-the-mill defense. I haven't done any homework to research my suspicion, but it sure seems to me that offenses in general have come back down off the pace they were setting earlier in the year.

[NorthHawk]

We're just not a good team. We can sometimes raise the play, but that's not the norm and if we continue to put out efforts like yesterday we could easily end
up at 8-8. Where was the sense of urgency or the adjustments to counter what the Giants were doing on Defense? We weren't taking what was given to move
the ball but rather seemed to try to force our game on them.
It was a game hardly worth watching with that effort.

[RiverDog]

Just some random thoughts.

One of the things that sticks out is our 0-2 on 4th down. It's easy to blame the play call but it's becoming all too frequent of a habit that we fail so often in short yardage situations.

Also, Carlos Hyde didn't look right yesterday. Does he have an injury issue?

Do we miss Greg Olsen more than we realize?

Iupati seems to be getting beat a lot.

[mykc14]

Just some random thoughts.

One of the things that sticks out is our 0-2 on 4th down. It's easy to blame the play call but it's becoming all too frequent of a habit that we fail so often in short yardage situations.

Also, Carlos Hyde didn't look right yesterday. Does he have an injury issue?

Do we miss Greg Olsen more than we realize?

Iupati seems to be getting beat a lot.

As far as the 4th downs go: The first was a run to the right side of our OL, playing with our 3rd string RT. I know they love to run behind Lewis, but you do have to scratch your head on that one a bit. The second was a PA pass that the Giants sniffed out and played extremely well. I would imagine there was something about our formation that gave away our intention to PA pass- or maybe it was just a great guess by their DC. Either way it was well played by them.

Yeah Hyde looked great against the Cards a few weeks ago, but hasn't looked great besides that game... Maybe he's injured. All I know is right now the only back on the team that can break a tackle is #32.

Maybe we miss Greg Olsen, he was a go to guy on 3rd downs for RW, although I don't think that is the main issue.

Yeah, we need an upgrade at LG next season for sure. Iupati hasn't looked good.

[Hawktawk]

The Seahawks go as Russ goes and yesterday he was dreadful just like 4 of the last 7 games.

He had 7 outstanding games, a so so win a week ago where he didn't lose the game and was hurt by drops but yesterday was awful. He wasn't reading the field, he didn't trust his eyes, he fumbled another snap on 3rd and short and compounded it by trying to pick it up instead of just jumping on it.Took off running on a hopelessly long third down. Even then they had the chance he usually takes advantage of late but the clock struck midnight and the chariot has turned into a pumpkin . He was inaccurate on most of his throws although he didn't get a lot of help from his receivers.

Lets face it. Russ played the game as well as anyone the first 5 weeks of this season.

But other than a great game vs the 9ers and an OK game vs AZ he has been bad for most of the month and a half, a turnover machine, ineffective.A tackling dummy.He kept insisting on trying to take deep shots,, no sense of time in the pocket.
I dunno.

Too many hits? distracted? Hiding an injury(head)? Were going nowhere without him and it's truly shocking the guy playing this much bad football game after game. He looks like Carson Wentz out there.

[obiken]

HT, It’s pretty hard not to suck, when you’re running for your life and your sacked five times. We had no running game and our offensive line couldn’t stop their front four. No question this was a trap game, the Giants are a darn good football team on the rise. Imagine if they would’ve had Barkley? No question I and everybody else, might’ve made too much out of this game, but the offensive line is our major weakness. Maybe this is our new normal with Russell making 30+ million a year, I hope not!

[mykc14]

HT, It’s pretty hard not to suck, when you’re running for your life and your sacked five times. We had no running game and our offensive line couldn’t stop their front four. No question this was a trap game, the Giants are a darn good football team on the rise. Imagine if they would’ve had Barkley? No question I and everybody else, might’ve made too much out of this game, but the offensive line is our major weakness. Maybe this is our new normal with Russell making 30+ million a year, I hope not!

I agree with a lot of this. The Giants are good on Defense and should be good next year, but there is no way we should have lost this game. Yes we had 5 sacks but how many of those were on the OL? No doubt a few were, but RW held onto the ball a long time which has been an issue. The way to fix it is to figure out why he is holding onto the ball so long. There are many things that could cause him to hold onto the ball: 1) His only options are deep shots and those take a long time to develop... 2) Nobody is getting open... (this could be due to predictable playcalling/tendencies/formations/route combos or guys unable to beat 1-on-1 coverage... 3) he's not reading the defense well and people are open but he's missing them... 4) he's so focused on the big play that he passes up shorter options that are available for the homerun... 5) he's not on the same page as his receivers- they are not reading the zones the same, he expects somebody to hold up in an open area of a zone and they keep running. I am sure there are more possibilities as well. Some of those are easy fixes, while others are more difficult. I tend to think it is probably a combination of things. I have always said I don't know how well he is at reading defenses pre-snap, but I also think #2 is an issue as well. We moved the ball well until we hit mid-field. We LOVE, LOVE, LOVE play action and taking a deep shot once we hit mid-field. It happens WAY too often and was disastrous for us yesterday. We moved the ball to mid-field and then all of the sudden we found ourselves in 3rd and forever because of a bad sack. Teams have us figured out and we need to adjust... soon!!

[NorthHawk]

Like I said earlier. We're not taking what is given.
Maybe the early year success with deep balls has set in this Offense and Russ a mindset that it will be more successful than not even though opposing teams are taking that away for the most part.
What is of concern is either no or bad adjustments at half time on both sides of the ball and when the Giants started running after the half, we just kept playing the same as they ran all
over us seemingly at will. Where's the passion? Where's the sense of urgency before there's 5 minutes left in the game? Why didn't we start to go up tempo like other teams do to put
the Defense a little off kilter? We know that Carson isn't fully healthy, but what about Hyde, is he hurt too? Do we need to draft a bell cow RB or maybe sign one in FA again this year?
We are 2-3 in the last 5 games and we may be 2-4 after next week. Other teams that were pushovers are now getting better as both NY teams are playing better than their record suggests.
We, on the other hand are getting worse or at least not improving. That's a bad formula for success and means at least 2 more losses to SF and the lambs with maybe 2 others to Jets and WFT.

[RiverDog]

HT, It’s pretty hard not to suck, when you’re running for your life and your sacked five times. We had no running game and our offensive line couldn’t stop their front four. No question this was a trap game, the Giants are a darn good football team on the rise. Imagine if they would’ve had Barkley? No question I and everybody else, might’ve made too much out of this game, but the offensive line is our major weakness. Maybe this is our new normal with Russell making 30+ million a year, I hope not!

As mykc said, it's not just the OL. Yes, there was a time or two when Russell took a sack, like when Carson got absolutely blown up by a blitzing LB that wasn't on the OL, that was due to protection issues. But for the most part, he had adequate time. Russell is a running quarterback whose first instinct is to try to extend a play vs. live for another down, so naturally, he's going to take more sacks than someone like Rodgers, Brees, or Brady.

As HT said, Russell's internal clock and his pocket awareness seems a little off. He'll try to escape one direction only to have it cut off. He looks confused, unsure of himself, has happy feet. I'm not blaming it all on Russell, but there's no question that for one reason or another, our offense looks terribly out of sync. We looked very unprepared.

As far as our running attack goes, I'm not sure what you're expecting, but Carson had 65 yards on 13 carries, or right at 5.0 ypc. The top two rushers in the league, Derrick Henry and Dalvin Cook, are averaging 4.9 and 5.0 ypc respectively. All totaled, we called just 15 plays to our running backs and passed 43 times. In other words, we're dialing up over 70% passing plays even though we have a back that's getting 5 yards a pop. Unless the game dictates otherwise, which in this case it didn't, we need to be closer to a 55/45 pass/run split.

Although the offensive line didn't have a very good performance, especially when you consider the pedestrian defense we were going up against, they aren't the root cause of our offensive woes, especially when you consider that we were playing our 3rd string RT.

[Hawktawk]

HT, It’s pretty hard not to suck, when you’re running for your life and your sacked five times. We had no running game and our offensive line couldn’t stop their front four. No question this was a trap game, the Giants are a darn good football team on the rise. Imagine if they would’ve had Barkley? No question I and everybody else, might’ve made too much out of this game, but the offensive line is our major weakness. Maybe this is our new normal with Russell making 30+ million a year, I hope not!

Russ gets himself sacked sometimes. No line can hold people out 4-5 seconds consistently and when Russ is pulling it down almost every pass play and double clutching and second guessing there just isn't time. Sure they give up some dead red jailbreaks , miss blocks, commit penalties but Russ is a guy who still thrived unlike everyone else under continual duress for 9 years . But he got sacked or threw into coverage with guys wide open elsewhere on the field a few times yesterday. The S is gone off the cape. He's starting to get back into the horrible habit of trying to escape out the back of the pocket and taking huge 10 plus yard sacks. I think one yesterday was like 15 plus yards. Early in the season he was climbing up in the pocket even if it was collapsing, find a seam and burn teams with his feet or at a minimum limit the loss of yardage. I hope the hits are not piling up and affecting his courage and confidence cause that's what happened to Wendz who was considered one of the best young QBs in the game a couple years ago. I love me some Russ and always thought he was too good to be true. I hope its not becoming a reality.

[TriCitySam]

I agree with many of the comments above. Not sure he's keeping his eyes up and is holding the ball too long - making extending the play your primary goal is not a good strategy. He looks really confused.

[Aseahawkfan]

As far as I'm concerned our chances for a Super Bowl are over. When you can't beat the teams when you need to beat them during the regular season, you're unlikely to do so in the playoffs. This team has too many exploitable holes in it. I can't see us beating more complete teams. Until Pete gets this defense rebuilt while maintaining the offense, I don't see Pete Ball winning any more Super Bowls.

[RiverDog]

As far as I'm concerned our chances for a Super Bowl are over. When you can't beat the teams when you need to beat them during the regular season, you're unlikely to do so in the playoffs. This team has too many exploitable holes in it. I can't see us beating more complete teams. Until Pete gets this defense rebuilt while maintaining the offense, I don't see Pete Ball winning any more Super Bowls.

The defense isn't playing that badly here lately. Over the past 4 games, we've held our opponents to an average of less than 20 points per game. That's good enough to win most NFL games. It was the turnaround we needed to compete for a SB.

But the offense has just sucked, and it's difficult to explain. That was not a top 10 defense we were playing Sunday.

[obiken]

Actually it was River, the Giants is as good of DLine as anyone out there. Our defense has actually improved. However, Our OLine is mutt food against good teams. The problem is we will kill the Jets on Sunday and feel good about ourselves. ASHF is correct, we are not going to beat anyone in the Playoffs. Defending our Offensive line at this point is Offensive to me.

[mykc14]

But the offense has just sucked, and it's difficult to explain. That was not a top 10 defense we were playing Sunday.

Yeah they are actually #10 in total D and top 5 in scoring D and run defense, which explains why our game plan consisted of so much passing, probably as they are like 20th in pass D. They are a good defense but it doesn’t excuse our offense playing so poorly. We should have been able to score 20+ against them and we just couldn’t get it done. Hopefully we regroup and at the end of the day we can keep playing improved D and get back to where we were early offensively (moving the ball up and down the field, not necessarily passing at such a high rate).

[mykc14]

The bad news is Washington and LA are both better than the Giants defensively and San Fran is also a top 10 defense so the odds of us busting out of this funk isn’t great, but if we can get something going we know it’s real because we are going against the top defenses in the league. The other bad news is the only team that is bad at defense and is probably the worst defense we will play all year (except ourselves at practice) is the Jets and they just fired their D coordinator so who knows what they will look like defensively.

[Aseahawkfan]

The defense isn't playing that badly here lately. Over the past 4 games, we've held our opponents to an average of less than 20 points per game. That's good enough to win most NFL games. It was the turnaround we needed to compete for a SB.

But the offense has just sucked, and it's difficult to explain. That was not a top 10 defense we were playing Sunday.

I feel for Pete Ball to work you need a top 10 defense. Pete Ball is a play action ball control offense that eats clock with a premium on protecting from turnovers, scores at a relatively slow pace, and forces the opponent to score slowly while the defense gets turnovers. That only works if the defense is at least a top 10 defense. If the defense can't slow down high powered offenses and stop them from scoring more often than we do, then you don't win Super Bowls. Our defense isn't up to snuff at the moment and it's just worse now that the offense is playing protect the ball more than they want to score.

[RiverDog]

The defense isn't playing that badly here lately. Over the past 4 games, we've held our opponents to an average of less than 20 points per game. That's good enough to win most NFL games. It was the turnaround we needed to compete for a SB.

But the offense has just sucked, and it's difficult to explain. That was not a top 10 defense we were playing Sunday.

I feel for Pete Ball to work you need a top 10 defense. Pete Ball is a play action ball control offense that eats clock with a premium on protecting from turnovers, scores at a relatively slow pace, and forces the opponent to score slowly while the defense gets turnovers. That only works if the defense is at least a top 10 defense. If the defense can't slow down high powered offenses and stop them from scoring more often than we do, then you don't win Super Bowls. Our defense isn't up to snuff at the moment and it's just worse now that the offense is playing protect the ball more than they want to score.

Just as this isn't a Pete Ball top 10 defense, it's not a Pete Ball offense, either. We are a pass first, quick strike offense that features the best deep ball quarterback in the league pitching to 6'4" WR that has top end speed. We don't need a top 10 defense to win. If we keep our opponents under 20 PPG, we should win 80% of our games.

Having said that, we did get out of balance Sunday. A pass first, quick strike offense doesn't necessarily mean throwing the ball on 3 out of 4 plays in a low scoring contest.

[Hawktawk]

When you're not protecting the QB you must run. When your line is getting pushed back you must run. Even if its a three and out going run heavy is the only way to keep an aggressive pass rush at bay, punish these pass rushers, make them play defense and wear down a bit.. The giants ran the ball 3 times in a row , exact same play call, same hole and scored a TD on a 3 play all run drive.It was like a Parcells flashback beating the high octane Kgun Bills in a SB with OJ anderson rushing for 3 yards a carry and being fed the ball all night.Wide right

It should have been apparent to PC and Schottie that it was not going to be an air it out game. For whatever reason Russ had lost his mojo. Getting Lockett dinged up in the scary collison really changed the offensive flow. I was surprised he came back in but he sure wasn't the same force in the game.Regardless of the statistical weaknesses of our opponents defense it just didn't play out that way. Horrible halftime adjustment. They went right at our perceived strength to protect a pedestrian veteran backup QB and won with the run .

This team should not sleep on anyone including the jets. They just fired the D coordinator Williams and who knows what kind of scheme we will see. It should be a cakewalk if Russ can find that groove he had earlier. If he does the team can still win it all.If he's the guy he's been 4 of the last 7 this could realistically end 8-8