Baseball To Resume in July...Maybe

[RiverDog]

You can bet that the NFL will be watching very carefully as MLB prepares to become the first major league sporting venture to resume after the coronavirus outbreak with tentative plans to start playing games in July. But it's far from a done deal.

https://sports.yahoo.com/coronavirus-ml ... 08669.html

The player have to sign off on the owner's proposed 50/50 revenue split. The revised schedule includes "around 82 games", or roughly half of a normal 162 game season. Observers say that agreement is unlikely.

The various states must sign off on the proposal. California Governor Gavin Newsom, whose state is home to 5 teams, has indicated that there will be no fans allowed to attend games until a vaccine is available. The league does have a ready-made option to hold their games at their spring training facilities, all located in either Arizona or Florida. Neutral fields in other states are also an option.

Teams would need approximately 3 weeks of "spring training" to prepare for the season. The revised schedule will include more interdivisional play. Intraleague play will be revised to have the NL East vs. the AL East, NL West vs. AL West, and so on. This would result in a reduction of interstate and inter region travel.

Playoffs would be expanded from the current 10 to 14 teams. This represents nearly half of the 30-team league. The 2020 All Star Game, scheduled for Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, is unlikely to be held.

The league has yet to address how they will proceed with testing, how they will deal at risk players, coaches, umpires, and other employees. This plan will undoubtedly be critical to any state agreeing to the resumption of baseball within their borders.

[trents]

82 games and no fans! That would cut deep into everyone's pockets. I'm not so worried about players and owners but the people who are really hurt by all this are the ballpark vendors, parking lot attendants, ticket agents, etc. The little people.

[jshawaii22]

The "little people" are already all screwed. Unless they are in a union, most stadium employees can't earn unemployment as the jobs are probably part time and many vendors are probably considered self-employed, even if illegal to do so, it's rampant in this type of job.

However, even in an no-fan event, there will be around 100 persons working. Field staffs, security, parking, AV staff, Electrical, Maintenance, and food (players, TV and other tech crews and VIP's will need to be serviced) all will have representation at the venues, even if it's only a few vs. a lot of people.

Better you employ a 'few vs none' -- This will be common throughout the next few years. The job reports are looking at minimum 2 million lost jobs, meaning that even as the country rebounds, those jobs are not coming back, as business fail and realign to the New World Order market.

[RiverDog]

The "little people" are already all screwed. Unless they are in a union, most stadium employees can't earn unemployment as the jobs are probably part time and many vendors are probably considered self-employed, even if illegal to do so, it's rampant in this type of job.

However, even in an no-fan event, there will be around 100 persons working. Field staffs, security, parking, AV staff, Electrical, Maintenance, and food (players, TV and other tech crews and VIP's will need to be serviced) all will have representation at the venues, even if it's only a few vs. a lot of people.

Better you employ a 'few vs none' -- This will be common throughout the next few years. The job reports are looking at minimum 2 million lost jobs, meaning that even as the country rebounds, those jobs are not coming back, as business fail and realign to the New World Order market.

I saw an article today where the Mariners are cutting the salaries of all employees making over $60K/year in order to avoid layoffs.

More so than class, it depends on what industry you're working in as to who is making the greatest sacrifices. Small businesses, particularly the restaurant business, is getting hammered. I saw where 20% of all restaurants in the US will never reopen. Yet there's a lot of people making entry level wages that are working their tails off now.

[trents]

Healthcare is a good job field to be working in right now and industries that supply healthcare would seem to be good investments right now.

[RiverDog]

Healthcare is a good job field to be working in right now and industries that supply healthcare would seem to be good investments right now.

Depends. My daughter is a charge nurse at an urgent care clinic. If things really go south, she's going to be swamped and at high risk of becoming infected. Same goes for workers in beef and poultry packing plants. They have all the work they want but for near minimum wage and an extremely high chance of contracting COVID.

[Aseahawkfan]

Healthcare is a good job field to be working in right now and industries that supply healthcare would seem to be good investments right now.

It very much depends. The majority of money for hospitals and companies come from treatments other than COVID19. They have been shutdown operations for most procedures other than COVID and emergencies. This has greatly damaged hospital and medical profits. If you're selling some key element like testing for COVID19 patients, maybe you're making good money. But you might be losing testing from all the non-COVID19 testing like yearly checkups and other medical problems which likely made up a larger portion of their income. I've heard many heatlhcare workers are having to take paycuts because hospitals have lost so much revenue as they focus solely on caring for COVID19 patients regardless of the quality of their insurance.

So you might have job security, but not the wages given hospitals are cut off from their normal revenue streams.

[Aseahawkfan]

Businesses associated with sports and who make their money off full stadiums are absolutely screwed. You likely will have to find new places to attend as many of them will go out of business. All those business that made money off local city traffi from businesses, events, sports, and the like are going to be absolutely slaughtered in this second quarter. Even if sports open up with no or reduced crowds, few will recover or remain in business. Others will step in once things get normal again, but all those people that were running them before might be replaced.

The second quarter of 2020 is going to be one of the worst quarters in American economic history, possibly the worst in history including The Great Depression. It will beat anything you saw during the 2008 Great Recession. The first quarter included only one month of lock down with minimal unemployment. The second quarter of 2020 will include the full impact of unemployment, lost revenues, and all the bad you've been hearing about. This coming second quarter that ends at the end of June is going to be so bad that people aren't even beginning to fathom the bad. I feel bad for all those folks who are about to lose everything because of how this whole thing was handled.

[RiverDog]

It's a highly unfair and disproportionate blow. Retired seniors like me aren't suffering any loss of income at all and just a modest dropping of the value of our assets while those in the hospitality industry are getting hammered. Health care workers, particularly those in nursing homes and include some of the most underpaid, over worked employees are at the greatest health risk. But, as the saying goes, life's not fair.

[EmeraldBullet]

Baseball isn't gonna happen this year unless owners change their proposal. No way the union will allow for 75% prorated pay. The players salaries where already collectively bargained. I fell 100% but prorated is most fair.

[RiverDog]

Baseball isn't gonna happen this year unless owners change their proposal. No way the union will allow for 75% prorated pay. The players salaries where already collectively bargained. I fell 100% but prorated is most fair.

The owner's position is that the revenue per game is going to be way down in a re-started season so a simple pro rated salary system isn't in the cards. For example, if there's an 81 game season that everybody gets paid 50% of their salary, it's not fair, and I agree. Players share in the profits of the game, they need to share in the losses as well. The problem is that no has a clue as to how much revenue to expect in a restarted, shortened season. The earliest they could hope for is to start back up in late July.

At this point, I really don't care if baseball resumes or not. It's past the point of the season being anywhere close to relevant. If they do restart, the season and the games will have been so radically changed that they'll be a permanent asterisk denoting the exceptional times. I'd rather they just cancel the entire season and start planning for next year.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't agree. Their game checks are collectively bargained, I see them as a constant withe the the shared loss of revenue being the # of game checks. Unless they come to a new collectively bargained agreement for the remainder of this season. I don't see the owners as able to simply dictate new terms based on assumed losses.

[RiverDog]

I don't agree. Their game checks are collectively bargained, I see them as a constant withe the the shared loss of revenue being the # of game checks. Unless they come to a new collectively bargained agreement for the remainder of this season. I don't see the owners as able to simply dictate new terms based on assumed losses.

Contracts can be modified to make exceptions for extraordinary circumstances. In fact, they are currently negotiating what these exceptions will look like for the 2020 season, if there is one.

If the players hold their line to 100% pro rated contracts, there won't be any baseball.

[c_hawkbob]

OK so "Unless they come to a new collectively bargained agreement for the remainder of this season" applies.

[RiverDog]

OK so "Unless they come to a new collectively bargained agreement for the remainder of this season" applies.

Yes, I think we're essentially saying the same thing. By "agreement", I am referring to the specific, ratified contractual arrangement currently in place. The "agreement" you are referring to is an amendment to the existing contract covering this season only and applying only to a specific part or parts of the original contract. It, too, would have to be ratified by the players.

I suspect that a lot of businesses and organizations are making similar, temporary accommodations based on their reduced revenue to either stay in business or to keep from having to make even more painful decisions. I know that the Mariners cut the salaries of those employees making over $60k(?) so as to avoid laying off those making lesser amounts.

[RiverDog]

Things aren't looking very good for a resumption of baseball:

The players agreed in March to take prorated salaries based on how many games they played in 2020, and they have not budged from that stance. Their refusal to do so has exasperated (baseball commissioner Rob) Manfred, whose latest proposal, on Monday, is sure to be rejected by the union.

The plan put forth Monday included a 76-game schedule that would yield an additional $200 million in salary money for players, if the postseason were completed. But even in that scenario, the players would still receive only 75% of their prorated salaries.

That is a nonstarter for the union, which is determined to show resolve against the backdrop of even bigger negotiations with the collective bargaining agreement set to expire after the 2021 season.

A sampling of player tweets Monday afternoon showed widespread ridicule of the owners’ new plan. St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Jack Flaherty called it “the same deal worded differently,” while Philadelphia Phillies outfielder Andrew McCutchen simply wrote, “lol.” Cincinnati Reds pitcher Trevor Bauer noted that “it works out to be about 35% of our full salary to play for 47% of the games,” while Toronto Blue Jays infielder Travis Shaw took a wordless approach: a GIF of Judge Judy shaking her head.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mar ... hI8VvWZrQA

[c_hawkbob]

I agree with the players. I also think the owners are risking lawsuits over trying to stray from the current CBA's structure.

[RiverDog]

I agree with the players. I also think the owners are risking lawsuits over trying to stray from the current CBA's structure.

It's hard to see how such a lawsuit could succeed. Both sides have been making proposals and counter proposals for an exception to some of the terms of the existing agreement. The CBA isn't written in stone and can be modified by mutual agreement anytime during the term. As a matter of fact, the players have already accepted some modifications to the current agreement, one of which is that the players accepted a proposal by the owners to expand the playoffs for this one season:

The union accepted MLB's plan to expand the postseason from 10 teams to as many as 16. However, if management announces a schedule without an agreement, it would not be able to alter the established postseason format.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/202 ... uD8PLySmuw

[c_hawkbob]

I think it's just hard for you to see how such a lawsuit could succeed. I'm not talking about changes both sides agree to, obviously. I'm talking about trying to force the players to go beyond a direct proration to accept less than the already agreed upon money per game played. I have no problem seeing such a lawsuit being upheld.

[RiverDog]

I think it's just hard for you to see how such a lawsuit could succeed. I'm not talking about changes both sides agree to, obviously. I'm talking about trying to force the players to go beyond a direct proration to accept less than the already agreed upon money per game played. I have no problem seeing such a lawsuit being upheld.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just have a hard time seeing how simply "trying" to force players to do something would be something they could get sued for. Management is not obligated to re-start the season even if they've already agreed to a salary structure.

The issue is how long of a season. They could start the season under agreed upon terms, ie 100% prorated salaries, and play as few as 50 games, but management is asking for a lower percentage if they are to play 70-80 regular season games.

[c_hawkbob]

If "just trying" results in potential revenue lost due to more lost games there is definitely grounds for litigation.

[Aseahawkfan]

I hope football doesn't end in this kind of situation.

[RiverDog]

It doesn't look good for MLB's return, at least not unless it's a severely reduced 50 game season, which would be about 30% of a normal 162 game season.

Baseball players say talks futile, tell MLB to order return

The union's action Saturday night could lead to a season of about 50 games rather than the 82 initially proposed by MLB. The Major League Baseball Players Association could respond by filing a grievance that would be heard by arbitrator Mark Irvings, arguing players are owed hundreds of millions of dollars in damages.

“It unfortunately appears that further dialogue with the league would be futile,” union head Tony Clark said in a statement. “It’s time to get back to work. Tell us when and where.”

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/baseball ... 4FBOBClW8s

Of course, the owners could opt to cancel the season in its entirety.

[trents]

This could be the end of MLB, at least as we know it. Just one lost season of revenue could have such a trickle down financial effect that it might not be possible to revive the league, at least not in one or two years. I mean think about it. This will have a negative impact at the collegiate and high school level. Kids might not want to invest in developing their skills for the sport of baseball if it is a professional dead end. The minor leagues have been paired way down by some clubs already so where will those kids go to play baseball. Japan and Korea? South of the border?

[jshawaii22]

and one day later we now have (according to multiple 'sources') news that management and players of baseball have agreed to a 60 game season because the owners and players (supposedly) are onboard with it as it adds just enough $$$ to make them all happy. Go figure. It's all about the $$$. It's never been about the number of games or anything else. Maybe that billion $$$ deal with Turner had something to do with it as the agreement also adds another round of early playoffs, by increasing the play-in from one game to best-of-5. AC/DC has it in music... Money Talks.

So, my first question is how are the teams going to get the non-American players back from Dominican Republic and all those other 3rd world countries. Are they really just all going to be able to get on a plane and fly to, I guess Florida or Arizona to resume training camps? A good 1/3 of the players now are not American.

Baseballs new theme music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqdErI9uss

[c_hawkbob]

The end of baseball as we know it eh?
Sure.

[Aseahawkfan]

The end of baseball as we know it eh?
Sure.

Just like last time it was the end of some sport as we know it.

[c_hawkbob]

So today the owners are back to 100% proration on a 60 game season, on the evening news here they said the deal isn't done yet but substantial progress has been made today and it looks like the only hangup now is how many games.

[RiverDog]

This could be the end of MLB, at least as we know it. Just one lost season of revenue could have such a trickle down financial effect that it might not be possible to revive the league, at least not in one or two years. I mean think about it. This will have a negative impact at the collegiate and high school level. Kids might not want to invest in developing their skills for the sport of baseball if it is a professional dead end. The minor leagues have been paired way down by some clubs already so where will those kids go to play baseball. Japan and Korea? South of the border?

Come on, man! Although I do agree that it's going to hurt the minor leagues, particularly the Class A leagues, one season isn't going to torpedo the entire sport.

But we might have seen the last of the hot dog vendors in the stands and the condiment bars on the concourses.

[jshawaii22]

Now there is a new 'demand' from the players for a 70 game season that took Manfred all of 30 minutes to reject as it includes millions and millions of extra $$$$ and concessions from the owners over the next 2 years. Gee whiz, you couldn't see that coming. $$$$$$$ Players want to end up with their 100% for the full season, based on pre-Covid $$$$, no matter how it comes to them and the owners will (so far) only give them the pro-rated $$$ for the games they actually play, which is the gist of the 60 games proposal that we were told the players liked. Evidently they didn't ask the 'right' players.

[trents]

Come on, man! Although I do agree that it's going to hurt the minor leagues, particularly the Class A leagues, one season isn't going to torpedo the entire sport.

But we might have seen the last of the hot dog vendors in the stands and the condiment bars on the concourses.

That might be good in some ways as they would probably let the fans bring their own food instead of having to pay exorbitant prices for dogs and soda.

[RiverDog]

Come on, man! Although I do agree that it's going to hurt the minor leagues, particularly the Class A leagues, one season isn't going to torpedo the entire sport.

But we might have seen the last of the hot dog vendors in the stands and the condiment bars on the concourses.

That might be good in some ways as they would probably let the fans bring their own food instead of having to pay exorbitant prices for dogs and soda.

I doubt it. They won't allow any liquids, including sodas, due to security reasons and unless you want a cold hot dog stuffed in a backpack, I doubt that you'll see very many people bringing their own.

[RiverDog]

Now there is a new 'demand' from the players for a 70 game season that took Manfred all of 30 minutes to reject as it includes millions and millions of extra $$$$ and concessions from the owners over the next 2 years. Gee whiz, you couldn't see that coming. $$$$$$$ Players want to end up with their 100% for the full season, based on pre-Covid $$$$, no matter how it comes to them and the owners will (so far) only give them the pro-rated $$$ for the games they actually play, which is the gist of the 60 games proposal that we were told the players liked. Evidently they didn't ask the 'right' players.

Yea, so much for the robber baron owners out to destroy the game. If this is any indication of how CBA negotiations will proceed in 2022, we're going to be in for another work stoppage. Neither side seems interested in having a season.

[RiverDog]

Here's the owners side of the story for wanting a shorter schedule:

The news of the positive tests, and fear of a second wave of the virus wiping out the postseason, MLB deputy commissioner Dan Halem says, is the primary reason they are adamant about finishing the regular season on Sept. 27.

He vigorously denies the union’s assertion that MLB is stalling to play as few regular-season games as possible to save money.

“Your recent letters have all expressed the concern, in one form or another, that players are being 'asked to take on extraordinary burdens and risks in the current environment,'" Halem said Monday in a letter to lead union attorney Bruce Meyer, obtained by USA TODAY Sports. “However, the Association’s proposals to play as many games as possible, as deep into the fall as possible, increases the health risks to players and staff, which is not something we are prepared to do."

“We strongly disagree with your assertion that our concern about player health and safety in the midst of the greatest health crisis in our lifetime is a 'pretext' to play fewer games. As you are aware, while the language in [the March 26 agreement] states that the Office of the Commissioner will use 'best efforts to play as many games as possible,' a very important qualifier to that provision is that the schedule must take into account 'player safety and health.'"

There are at least 12 states that have experienced an increase in COVID-19 cases in recent weeks, Halem told Meyer, and that medical and health officials told MLB to anticipate the virus worsening in the fall.

“We believe it presents a heightened and unnecessary health risk to your membership to play deeper into the Fall,’’ Halem said in his letter, while also asserting that doubleheaders would increase the risk of COVID-19 with players and staff congregating for twice the amount of time in a day, which would restrict social distancing.

“The proliferation of COVID-19 outbreaks around the country over the last week, and the fact that we already know of several 40-man roster players and staff who have tested positive, has increased the risks associated with commencing spring training in the next few weeks.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/m ... 196046001/

If the season were to start on July 20th after having allowed 3 weeks for spring training, there would only be 70 calendar days to get the regular season finished by September 27th, hence the desire for a 50 game schedule.

[jshawaii22]

Florida is going down in a ball of fire and will soon the worst possible place to be right now. Texas and Arizona aren't too far behind. When having 'spring training' in NY City is a better idea then Florida, you know something is really wrong.

Both Baseball and the NBA are in real trouble if Florida is shut down. However, the Governor of Florida seems hell-bent on bringing in the $$$ that the sports will have, so it's really a conundrum for the leagues.

The NFL can't be far behind in realizing the season is really on the line right now, and none of it is really their fault.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29343538/sources-players-eye-vote-mlb-plan-sunday

There may be some movement today. We'll see. I somehow doubt the players will approve anything right now, but you never know.

[RiverDog]

Florida is going down in a ball of fire and will soon the worst possible place to be right now. Texas and Arizona aren't too far behind. When having 'spring training' in NY City is a better idea then Florida, you know something is really wrong.

Both Baseball and the NBA are in real trouble if Florida is shut down. However, the Governor of Florida seems hell-bent on bringing in the $$$ that the sports will have, so it's really a conundrum for the leagues.

The NFL can't be far behind in realizing the season is really on the line right now, and none of it is really their fault.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29343538/sources-players-eye-vote-mlb-plan-sunday

There may be some movement today. We'll see. I somehow doubt the players will approve anything right now, but you never know.

MLB has already announced that teams will train at their home facilities and not in Florida or Arizona, and that puts things back into a competitive imbalance if one team is able to practice while others are restricted from doing so by their state governments. They're also talking about a radical rule change for the 2020 season involving extra inning games, with a team's at bat to start with a runner on first starting in the top of the 10th and allowing games to end in a tie. It looks like in addition to being a respiratory illness, that COVID can affect the brain as well.

The situation in Florida has the NBA on pins and needles:

“In at least one recent call with high-level team executives, NBA commissioner Adam Silver has acknowledged the spiking numbers in Florida,” the report states. “Team sources described the general tone of that call, including the questions asked of Silver on it, as tense. Another called Silver’s tone ‘resolute but somber.’ He expressed a resolve to go on — a confidence in the NBA’s bubble concept — while recognizing the seriousness of the coronavirus spike, sources said.”

https://nesn.com/2020/06/nba-rumors-ris ... e-players/

According to Yardbarker, "around 10" NFL teams have already had at least one player test positive, and they've only been working out on their own in groups and not at team facilities. The NFLPA is recommending that the players discontinue the practice.

In the meantime, infections are surging nation wide, with 8 states posting their highest 7 day average of new infections this past week. A lot of areas, including here in the Tri Cities, are seeing increases in hospital admissions and are starting to fill up their ICU beds. Things aren't settling down this summer like everyone expected them to do.

Not to get political, but if there's a big spike in Tulsa two weeks from now, it could spell bad news for sports of any kind to attempt an opening. It's going to be a long 6 months until they come up with a vaccine.

[jshawaii22]

I've wondered If the spike does not include increased hospitalizations and/or deaths (it doesn't') will a positive at a camp or under a bubble carry the same weight as it does now or especially 3 months ago? In other words, does having someone simply showing signs of possible illness any more significant then during a bad flu season? Lots of people die each year from the flu and we don't shut down, and as it is now, its not the 25-40 year olds, just like it's not now.

I saw a chart showing the bulk of the new positives to be 25-40 year olds, with the older generation, who is mostly isolating at a very high rate, less infected. Obviously, that's the same age group as the bulk of the players, too. Should 1 positive shut down a team venue? The media is foaming at the mouth for negative news and would all over the sports as they try to restart.

[NorthHawk]

what about the coaches, many if not most of whom are in the higher risk group?

[jshawaii22]

Northhawk, I was thinking about PC... maybe have to coach from a bubble or press box, if isolated. Nowadays, you can easily be setup to watch a game from multiple angles of cameras and have 2 way with other coaches very readily available. A coach like PC, doesn't even have to be in the stadium.
So you put up a couple of 90" screens in the locker room and the coach can even get his pre-game/post-game talks using a phone and the camera and take questions. It's so common now.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/21/us/us-coronavirus-sunday/index.html

Here's the latest media 'oh crap' moment but as it states as the end, lots of 20'ishes getting positives but no correlation to hospitals or worse at all, as long as they don't have an underlying issue.

[trents]

Some doctors in Europe are saying COVID is weakening in the sense that though there is a spike in cases in some places but it now seem to not make people nearly so sick.

I'm to the point at 69 years of age and in good general health where I'm willing to take my chances in order to resume normal life. Unfortunately, my wife is not on board with that yet.