Minority Professional Athletes: Sports slaves?

[trents]

For minorities, sports used to be looked at as an avenue to escape poverty, drugs and crime; a road open to them for success and respect when many other roads to those things were blocked off. Now we're hearing accusations from some NFL and NBA players that these immensely popular and lucrative pro sports franchises have been built on their backs and they have been pawns, exploited to fill the pockets of the already rich franchise owners and league execs.

What do you think?

[RiverDog]

For minorities, sports used to be looked at as an avenue to escape poverty, drugs and crime; a road open to them for success and respect when many other roads to those things were blocked off. Now we're hearing accusations from some NFL and NBA players that these immensely popular and lucrative pro sports franchises have been built on their backs and they have been pawns, exploited to fill the pockets of the already rich franchise owners and league execs.

What do you think?

That might have been true back in the 60's and 70's, but not in today's world of free agency.

[jshawaii22]

It's no secret that rich people can be just as racist as all the rest of us. Jerry Richardson, Donald Sterling, Georgia Frontierre(sp?) are 3 that I can think of and I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg. They are usually Jewish, with 'old' money, typically believe in the "Plantation Mentality" and the complaints from players have sprung up over the years. Trouble is, so far the public usually backs the owners and the players are 'stuck' with their millions... we'll see where it goes.

(The policeman that sat on George's back is typical of what is was the Plantation "Big Boss Man" during the slavery institution - and he was a trainer of other cops, multiple complaints over the years and gets awards. It really never ended.)

[obiken]

Make me a slave for 1 measly million. The problem is before they get there, only a few make it. Blacks need to encourage kids to hit the books, guys that can run a 4.4 are rare.

[Rambo2014]

NFL Draft is nothing more than a slave market like back in the day. Line em up and pinch and fondle the meat and merchandise goes to highest bidder.

[NorthHawk]

For minorities, sports used to be looked at as an avenue to escape poverty, drugs and crime; a road open to them for success and respect when many other roads to those things were blocked off. Now we're hearing accusations from some NFL and NBA players that these immensely popular and lucrative pro sports franchises have been built on their backs and they have been pawns, exploited to fill the pockets of the already rich franchise owners and league execs.

What do you think?

I think it's essentially correct. In the NFL, players are tied to a team when drafted, but cut or sold if the team no longer sees them as a fit.
In that sense they are looked at as a commodity. Sure, they make good money, but their future isn't always in their hands.

[trents]

It's no secret that rich people can be just as racist as all the rest of us. Jerry Richardson, Donald Sterling, Georgia Frontierre(sp?) are 3 that I can think of and I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg. They are usually Jewish, with 'old' money, typically believe in the "Plantation Mentality" and the complaints from players have sprung up over the years. Trouble is, so far the public usually backs the owners and the players are 'stuck' with their millions... we'll see where it goes.

(The policeman that sat on George's back is typical of what is was the Plantation "Big Boss Man" during the slavery institution - and he was a trainer of other cops, multiple complaints over the years and gets awards. It really never ended.)

Edit: Jewish and a plantation mentality? I'm not sure I see those two things going together.

[trents]

I think it's essentially correct. In the NFL, players are tied to a team when drafted, but cut or sold if the team no longer sees them as a fit.
In that sense they are looked at as a commodity. Sure, they make good money, but their future isn't always in their hands.

So you don't see this is as a minority or color issue I take it. The question in my original post revolved around the fact that the overwhelming majority of players in both the NFL and the NBA are black.

[NorthHawk]

Since the vast majority of the players are Black, it affects them disproportionately from
greater society. But sure, White or Asians and others are affected as well even if they don't
have the historical context that might amplify some of those feelings. And there may be
some players of all races that don't feel that way too.

[mykc14]

For minorities, sports used to be looked at as an avenue to escape poverty, drugs and crime; a road open to them for success and respect when many other roads to those things were blocked off. Now we're hearing accusations from some NFL and NBA players that these immensely popular and lucrative pro sports franchises have been built on their backs and they have been pawns, exploited to fill the pockets of the already rich franchise owners and league execs.

What do you think?

I think you could make that argument for almost every job in America. The employees are used by owners/upper management to make money. I would say there are many other professions that offer better examples than pro sports, a Wal-Mart or Mcdonald’s employee for example. Wal-Mart is notorious for working around labor laws to sh1t on their employees. It is frustrating to think that players actually feel like this. They are given generation changing wealth and are comparing themselves to slaves. Why does it have to be a race thing??? Baseball, hockey, European League Soccer, and MLS all follow the same basic structure and you have never once heard players in their sport comparing themselves to slaves. To me it is a slap in the face to every person who gets up everyday and works a ‘normal’ job, probably helping whoever owns their company to become super wealthy. It is an entitled attitude that is going to be difficult to get the average citizen in our county to support.

[mykc14]

I think it's essentially correct. In the NFL, players are tied to a team when drafted, but cut or sold if the team no longer sees them as a fit.
In that sense they are looked at as a commodity. Sure, they make good money, but their future isn't always in their hands.

This is no different than any other profession in our country! No we aren’t drafted, but many people pick a profession and can be transferred or fired- that doesn’t make them slaves. You may not be able to choose where you work in your company, but NFL players have the same right as anybody else who finds themselves working for a company who forces them to live in a certain place for a few years- quit and find a different job. How many Football players would choose to quit? Not many. Slaves didn’t have a choice, that’s what made them slaves! Obviously there are differences between pro sports and other professions but by and large those differences fall in the favor of the professional athletes.

[jshawaii22]

Mykc14 --- Other than the military, which ended their draft in '73, how many jobs can you be 'drafted' into? That could be up to 7 years of servitude for a first round pick.

[RiverDog]

I think it's essentially correct. In the NFL, players are tied to a team when drafted, but cut or sold if the team no longer sees them as a fit. In that sense they are looked at as a commodity. Sure, they make good money, but their future isn't always in their hands.

This is no different than any other profession in our country! No we aren’t drafted, but many people pick a profession and can be transferred or fired- that doesn’t make them slaves. You may not be able to choose where you work in your company, but NFL players have the same right as anybody else who finds themselves working for a company who forces them to live in a certain place for a few years- quit and find a different job. How many Football players would choose to quit? Not many. Slaves didn’t have a choice, that’s what made them slaves! Obviously there are differences between pro sports and other professions but by and large those differences fall in the favor of the professional athletes.

I'm with mykc on this one. I was a salaried mid level manager my entire 40 year career, and outside an annual performance evaluation, I had zero say in how much I would be paid, nor did I have any say in how much I paid for my insurance premiums, vacation, holidays, work conditions, etc. I had no union to bargain on my behalf. At one point, I held a job that I really liked and of which my boss was quite please with my work eliminated due to no fault of my own and was transferred to another location without my consent. And once I turned 50 and despite having above average performance reviews and an admission that I was a superior candidate, my application for other positions within the company were turned down without so much as an interview. My only alternative was to quit and work for someone else or sue for age discrimination.

I'm only mentioning my experience so as to contrast it with the "slaves" employed by the NFL as in general, I liked my job and felt that I was treated fairly by my employer, but how is it that professional players, whom negotiate their own contracts for which ever team they choose, treated as a commodity by their employer if I am not?

[mykc14]

Mykc14 --- Other than the military, which ended their draft in '73, how many jobs can you be 'drafted' into? That could be up to 7 years of servitude for a first round pick.

It is a choice!!! They are choosing to enter a profession in which they pick their employees via a draft. Longshoremen pick their employees via a drawing, others use interviews, etc. There are plenty of jobs in which you get interviewed and then they have a position in another city. Many people are transferred in their jobs. The draft isn’t some trick to pull the wool over the players eyes, it’s a way to protect competitive balance d initial investments. If a player were to be ‘stuck’ on the team that drafted them for 7 years they would have made at least 50 million but probably more like 75 million. At the end of the day they HAVE A CHOICE, which by its very definition does not classify them as slaves. Put anybody in the same living conditions that slaves had in our country and I guarantee they would be begging to go back to their position as a professional athlete. It’s a ridiculous comparison, a slap in the face to people working regular 9-5’s, and it minimalizes the atrocities of slavery.

[mykc14]

I'm with mykc on this one. I was a salaried mid level manager my entire 40 year career, and outside an annual performance evaluation, I had zero say in how much I would be paid, nor did I have any say in how much I paid for my insurance premiums, vacation, holidays, work conditions, etc. I had no union to bargain on my behalf. At one point, I held a job that I really liked and of which my boss was quite please with my work eliminated due to no fault of my own and was transferred to another location without my consent. And once I turned 50 and despite having above average performance reviews and an admission that I was a superior candidate, my application for other positions within the company were turned down without so much as an interview. My only alternative was to quit and work for someone else or sue for age discrimination.

I'm only mentioning my experience so as to contrast it with the "slaves" employed by the NFL as in general, I liked my job and felt that I was treated fairly by my employer, but how is it that professional players, whom negotiate their own contracts for which ever team they choose, treated as a commodity by their employer if I am not?

Very good examples of what I’m talking about, and great point about the fact that they have negotiated their contract. There are a lot of people who have a right to complain about things but professional athletes won’t find a lot of compassion from regular working people. Are actors and musicians going to start to call themselves slaves because they have to relocate for many months at a time to film or go on tour to sing?? Come on! There is no comparison to slavery.

[NorthHawk]

In the NFL, and other major league sports, players can't pick up and leave for a better opportunity on another team.
In our world, we can quit and go to a competitor for better pay, working conditions, or other benefits. We are not tied
to one business who owns the rights to our services.
That's the difference.

[c_hawkbob]

Maybe the silliest thread I've seen. Almost as ridiculous a notion as players comparing going to war on the gridiron to actually going to war. When one signs an NFL contract he is fully aware of the movement restrictions tied to that contract by the collective bargaining agreement and accepts those conditions as part of what it takes to avail oneself of the millions of dollars available not only in the contract but in the opportunity to build a brand of his name and likeness in the commercial world. Slaves had no single element of that, let alone all of them.

[mykc14]

In the NFL, and other major league sports, players can't pick up and leave for a better opportunity on another team.
In our world, we can quit and go to a competitor for better pay, working conditions, or other benefits. We are not tied
to one business who owns the rights to our services.
That's the difference.

They are already working for the best business in their particular job field. They are already working for the business with the best working conditions, best pay, and other benefits. They could quit the NFL and go play in Canada (which would obviously be stupid, but would allow them to pick their team, if that’s what is so important). If you are talking about signing with a team they choose as opposed to a different business (the business is the NFL, a team would be like a franchise... so Home Depot is the NFL and the Home Depot in Seattle is like the team. The corporation (Home Depot/NFL) makes the policies, bargains the contracts, etc) so the franchises (teams) aren’t going to have better salaries/benefits/etc. I sign yearly contracts. As soon as I sign my contract for the next year I can’t sign elsewhere either, unless my employer releases me. I know their INITIAL contact is for 4 years, but again they know that when they sign, they don’t have to sign, and the players bargained for that contract structure so I don’t see any room for complaining. Also this discussion isn’t about negative aspects of our job it is comparing being a professional athlete to a slave. Slaves were slaves for life, not 4 years. Slaves were essentially not paid at all pro athletes are paid MILLIONS of dollars. Slaves were whipped, beaten, or murdered for not following directions Pro sports athletes are fined. Slaves had no choice where they lived, sometimes who they married, what type of labor they had to do, where their spouse lived, if they’re children would live with them, what they are, the clothes they wore, when they could take a bath, do I need to keep going?? Pro athletes, who are literally making millions of dollars a year are comparing their lives to slaves and somehow you are defending them based on the fact that they don’t get to choose where they play for 4 years.

[RiverDog]

In the NFL, and other major league sports, players can't pick up and leave for a better opportunity on another team.

They can't until the contract they signed expires, but otherwise they sure as hell can.

In our world, we can quit and go to a competitor for better pay, working conditions, or other benefits. We are not tied to one business who owns the rights to our services. That's the difference.

In your world, maybe, but not in everyone's world. Can a soldier in the US Army quit and go to work as a soldier in someone else's army? Of course, not. If he doesn't like the army, he has to serve out his "contract" then change careers and find work as a civilian.

[RiverDog]

Maybe the silliest thread I've seen. Almost as ridiculous a notion as players comparing going to war on the gridiron to actually going to war.

Don't you just love it when people throw around words like 'slavery' without fully comprehending what the meaning of the term is? People would call me a Pete Carroll "hater" simply because I didn't agree with his play calling or something.

[TriCitySam]

I think its an unfair statement. Without the organization the NFL built, there wouldn't be billions of $ to pay out in salaries - how much money did the negro leagues (NFL and baseball) make? Not enough to payout big bucks (for the day). They could start their own league, and keep all blacks out of the NFL. How do you think that would work? The FA and other rules create the competitive balance that has made the NFL what it is today. I don't see them being used, rather it's because of their talent that they are allowed to participate and earn millions. I can't.

[NorthHawk]

They can't until the contract they signed expires, but otherwise they sure as hell can.

Unless they are tagged, then their movement is restricted.

In your world, maybe, but not in everyone's world. Can a soldier in the US Army quit and go to work as a soldier in someone else's army? Of course, not. If he doesn't like the army, he has to serve out his "contract" then change careers and find work as a civilian.

There are mercenary groups all over the world. Soldiers can join up with them if they wish to continue their careers after their first commitment is met. They might even make better money. They could also go AWOL if they
wanted to take a chance on that. There's nowhere to go if a player quits the NFL.

[c_hawkbob]

Oh come on north, that doesn't even come close to making them slaves!

Besides, gowing awol to get witn a different merc outfit is pretty analogous to than NFL players forcing trades, which happens fairly often.

[NorthHawk]

Oh come on north, that doesn't even come close to making them slaves!

Besides, gowing awol to get witn a different merc outfit is pretty analogous to than NFL players forcing trades, which happens fairly often.

There are some parallels that aren't true with the rest of the workforce and I can understand how some players feel frustrated by it.
Unlike slaves, they can just leave, but as a way out like the OP suggested, this is one of the few paths for some of if not a lot of players.
The best paid won't feel that way, but how about players that are traded and cut multiple times before calling it a career? They don't have
any control outside of their employment opportunities other than quitting and with the lack of freedom of movement, they could feel like that.

Good players can force trades. Average players or those on the bubble are at the mercy of the organization they were drafted to. I think that's
why some players have complained about not having true Free Agency.

[RiverDog]

Oh come on north, that doesn't even come close to making them slaves!

Besides, gowing awol to get witn a different merc outfit is pretty analogous to than NFL players forcing trades, which happens fairly often.

There are some parallels that aren't true with the rest of the workforce and I can understand how some players feel frustrated by it. Unlike slaves, they can just leave, but as a way out like the OP suggested, this is one of the few paths for some of if not a lot of players. The best paid won't feel that way, but how about players that are traded and cut multiple times before calling it a career? They don't have any control outside of their employment opportunities other than quitting and with the lack of freedom of movement, they could feel like that.

Good players can force trades. Average players or those on the bubble are at the mercy of the organization they were drafted to. I think that's why some players have complained about not having true Free Agency.

As has been pointed out, professional football players, whether they be HOF'ers or bubble players, are no more a slave to their teams than employees of other companies/organizations in everyday life.

People start throwing around the word "slavery" so freely and loosely in the manner it's being used in this thread cheapens the term and detracts from its true meaning. It's the same objection I had over in the OT forum when some started referring to border detention centers as "concentration camps" as the term evokes images of Auschwitz and Nazi death camps. People start pulling stunts like that for effect, to dramatize their arguments.

[Hawktawk]

Good grief. really? Im 60 and still miss padding up and hitting someone. These jack asses make millions. come live in my world. I just took a day off after working 40 in a row and they make many times more in 1 day than i do in a year

[jshawaii22]

It's the players that throw that "slavery" word around and have for a long time. It's the media that perpetuates it.
It's the plantation effect with white owners and all those lowly mistreated black players that will say it, right or wrong, and it's what many of them believe or want to believe. The $$$ doesn't matter, only who has more of it.

[EmeraldBullet]

I guess maybe I can see it if we were talking about minor league players or something. But the pros get the best healthcare, millions of dollars. And they can quit and pursue something else if they want at any time. I think theres a real misunderstanding of what slavery was if this is a real conversation.

[RiverDog]

It's the players that throw that "slavery" word around and have for a long time. It's the media that perpetuates it.
It's the plantation effect with white owners and all those lowly mistreated black players that will say it, right or wrong, and it's what many of them believe or want to believe. The $$$ doesn't matter, only who has more of it.

I don't hear the press or the players throwing the term "slavery" around a whole bunch. They know better. Do you have any examples?

[jshawaii22]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/22/lebron-james-nfl-owners-are-old-white-men-with-slave-mentality-toward-players/

RD, this is the most recent I could find. There are lots of google hits when I searched "Slavery and the NFL Players"

Yes, it's most of us think that it's all in the players minds and it's probably a lot less prevalent now that the 'old' generation of owners is slowly being sold to new money. It's a mindset, not necessarily a practice of power by a particular owner.

[RiverDog]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/22/lebron-james-nfl-owners-are-old-white-men-with-slave-mentality-toward-players/

RD, this is the most recent I could find. There are lots of google hits when I searched "Slavery and the NFL Players"

Yes, it's most of us think that it's all in the players minds and it's probably a lot less prevalent now that the 'old' generation of owners is slowly being sold to new money. It's a mindset, not necessarily a practice of power by a particular owner.

I couldn't get past the WP's subscription prompt, but saying that the owners have a "slave mentality" is a little different than equating players as slaves. Nevertheless, I'll accept your claim about it being said, although I sure don't hear that term being used very often.

But it still doesn't change my position. IMO it's outrageous to use such a term to describe the relationship between the NFL and its players. They're doing it for effect, about the same as if one were to refer to Colin Kaepernick's ostracization as a lynching.

[Aseahawkfan]

Now pro athletes have it good. The comparison to slavery is dumb given sports is an optional job with a high end salary. The same could not be said in the past, but right now things are very good for athletes.

But sports did used to be another industry with heavy discrimination. And you could argue that the laws and racism that prevented folk of African descent from accumulating wealth didn't allow folk of African descent to capitalize on their talent back when sports were being built, which kept them out of ownership, coaching, and management. It was the same in the music business where many talented Americans of African descent were exploited for their talents, while held out of the largest percentage of the profits from their talent due to discrimination. Fortunately, some very sharp and intelligent men and women corrected such things as they gained the financial power to do so like Quincy Jones and Berry Gordy Jr. Now music production is a very diverse group of owners and managers making a lot of money for a lot of different people.

I think it was funny at one period in time it was thought that folk of African descent couldn't compete in sports. That is just hilarious at this point.

So my view at this point is folk of African descent have successfully leveraged their talents to take a huge share of the profits in sports. The next mountain they need to climb is more representation in coaching, management, and ownership, so that they are profiting more off their talent. It is greatly exaggerating at this point in time to say that sports is any way like slavery or forced servitude. That's just hyperbole that sounds great to a small segment of the population who have no recognition of history or what real forced servitude is like.

[trents]

Personally, I don't put much stock in those kind of stereotypes that L. James put forth. It's a good time for black athletes to jump on the pile and for their white teammates to feel obligated to join in on the fray. I mean if you are a white QB you want your O line to block for you.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not to mention the obvious litmus test: if modern professional sports were anything like real slavery, would any other group leap at the opportunity to take their place? I would say almost anyone would trade places with professional athletes from any ethnic group if they could magically trade places with the same talent. No one would trade places with a slave making no money, doing grunt crap work, while being bought and sold like cattle.

I'd trade places with a kicker or backup player in the NFL or NBA. I'll take that "slave" position any time someone can magically make that happen.