Just Don't Use the Keyboard or give Interviews...

[jshawaii22]

When will white players, coaches, broadcasters, and anybody else understand that Social Media is a job killer.

Drew Brees is the latest that needed to learn to keep your damn hands off the keyboard and white people should never ever give opinions about how life is as a black man. It serves no purpose. Everything you say is twisted to whatever anyone thinks or says it is. Vic Fangio, Sacramento NBA Announcer, some white college coach, couple of sports talk radio hosts in Boston... it never ends. And this was only today.

Sad world, but PC now is whatever anyone thinks it is. Everyone is a target.

[RiverDog]

When will white players, coaches, broadcasters, and anybody else understand that Social Media is a job killer.

Drew Brees is the latest that needed to learn to keep your damn hands off the keyboard and white people should never ever give opinions about how life is as a black man. It serves no purpose. Everything you say is twisted to whatever anyone thinks or says it is. Vic Fangio, Sacramento NBA Announcer, some white college coach, couple of sports talk radio hosts in Boston... it never ends. And this was only today.

Sad world, but PC now is whatever anyone thinks it is. Everyone is a target.

Whether you agree or disagree with Drew's comments, the one thing that I think we can all agree on is that it was piss poor timing. If he's going to express his opinion, don't do it during the most turbulent times that our country has faced since the 60's when emotions are running as high as they are.

[RiverDog]

Brees has now offered an apology for his earlier remarks:

my friends, teammates, the City of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community and anyone I hurt with my comments yesterday.” He said he is heartbroken by the pain he caused while trying to share his thoughts on the “respect, unity, and solidarity centered around the American flag and the national anthem.”

Brees said his comments “completely missed the mark” and lacked awareness. He then offered an explanation for where he stands on issues of police brutality and social inequality.

“I stand with the black community in the fight against systemic racial injustice and police brutality and support the creation of real policy change that will make a difference. I condemn the years of oppression that have taken place throughout our black communities and still exists today. I acknowledge that we as Americans, including myself, have not done enough to fight for that equality or to truly understand the struggles and plight of the black community,” Brees wrote.

[jshawaii22]

...and he's still getting ripped by some of the 'white' press and others for not understanding whatever it is he's supposed to say as a 40 year old white guy who doesn't and hasn't lived as a oppressed black man.

[RiverDog]

...and he's still getting ripped by some of the 'white' press and others for not understanding whatever it is he's supposed to say as a 40 year old white guy who doesn't and hasn't lived as a oppressed black man.

I saw Stephen Jackson this morning and it seemed that he did not know that Brees had apologized and made what I felt was a very gracious and appropriate statement or that he didn't accept/care that he's trying to make amends.

But I still think that Brees was an idiot for voicing his opinion at this particular time as it pertains to respecting the flag. It seems out of character for him as I always thought him to be a very heady, sensitive individual.

[jshawaii22]

Skip Bayless, who is about as lily white as there is, kept using the term "WE" when talking to Shannon about 'race relations' and you could see Shannon squeezing to not say anything back that directly implicates his partner ($$$$$$$$$$) as the problem, not the solution.
Your career on the air is on the line everyday.

Why do white people think they have to have a solution? Racism in America is inbred and goes back to the first slaves arriving in America. That Father and Son wannabe KKK's in Georgia where they trailed and then used their cars to hunt down that supposed burglar, and murdered him, too. Where were the riots over that? To me, that was as systemic of the issue then the cop kneeling on the man's neck is.
Both are exactly where we are in America right now... 2020.

I like watching "LivePD" and "Cops" - if you notice, the propensity is to force black drivers out of their cars to 'incite' them so they can be taken down, and yes, the knee in the back is the standard procedure to detain and maintain control and almost everyone yells "I can't breath" - even the in-studio cops laughed about how often those offenders use that as an 'excuse' to try to get the cops off them and generally the white kids, especially and often is for 'pot' get told to 'go sit on the sidewalk' with their legs crossed. And That's the world and it's live.

[RiverDog]

Skip Bayless, who is about as lily white as there is, kept using the term "WE" when talking to Shannon about 'race relations' and you could see Shannon squeezing to not say anything back that directly implicates his partner ($$$$$$$$$$) as the problem, not the solution.
Your career on the air is on the line everyday.

Why do white people think they have to have a solution? Racism in America is inbred and goes back to the first slaves arriving in America. That Father and Son wannabe KKK's in Georgia where they trailed and then used their cars to hunt down that supposed burglar, and murdered him, too. Where were the riots over that? To me, that was as systemic of the issue then the cop kneeling on the man's neck is.
Both are exactly where we are in America right now... 2020.

I like watching "LivePD" and "Cops" - if you notice, the propensity is to force black drivers out of their cars to 'incite' them so they can be taken down, and yes, the knee in the back is the standard procedure to detain and maintain control and almost everyone yells "I can't breath" - even the in-studio cops laughed about how often those offenders use that as an 'excuse' to try to get the cops off them and generally the white kids, especially and often is for 'pot' get told to 'go sit on the sidewalk' with their legs crossed. And That's the world and it's live.

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I certainly don't have a solution. There's 600,000 cops in the United States, and even if you're the most successful recruiter/trainer in the world with a 99% success rate, that still leaves about 6,000 cops. That doesn't mean that we can't do better, but it does illustrate the problem our society is facing.

I don't mind discussing the subject here and will if you like, but we have a thread going on over in the off topic forum that might be a better place for this conversation as it seems like we're drifting away from football.

[jshawaii22]

OK -- . I'll take a look -- those other forms are usually too radical for me.

[trents]

I would agree with you, jshawaii22 except that it's darned if you do and darned if you don't. Any celeb, white or of color, who disagrees with the prevailing narrative is going to get ripped. But its also true that any celeb who doesn't speak up at all and support the prevailing narrative is also going to get called out and pummeled.

And it would not surprise me if some pro sports team owners and officials are pushing their stars to speak out in support of the leftist racial narrative so that the team looks politically correct and ticket sales don't suffer. And I think it's highly likely that the Saints' brass pressured Brees to issue an apology, not only for the sake of the public team image but for locker room moral. Rest assured, the almighty $ is behind Brees' apology. I see no other way that he could do such an about face in such a short time. Surely, Brees' personal convictions could not change that drastically that fast.

[Aseahawkfan]

A problem needs to be fixed. If you're not helping fix it or aren't interested in helping fix it, why not stay quiet and avoid headaches.

[trents]

A problem needs to be fixed. If you're not helping fix it or aren't interested in helping fix it, why not stay quiet and avoid headaches.

Because if you are a celeb you won't be allowed to stay quiet.

Besides, Brees' original Tweet was balanced and filled with truth. I think it was his way of trying to make a meaningful contribution to the fix. Trouble is, a lot of people these days love to traffic in emotion and don't care about truth.

[Aseahawkfan]

Because if you are a celeb you won't be allowed to stay quiet.

Besides, Brees' original Tweet was balanced and filled with truth. I think it was his way of trying to make a meaningful contribution to the fix. Trouble is, a lot of people these days love to traffic in emotion and don't care about truth.

People have different versions of the truth. If Brees had stayed quiet or just said I support justice in this situation rather than discussing the matter of kneeling which has already been a divisive issue, he would have been fine. Plenty of celebrities are not saying much and not much is being said of them. You put a simple show of support and you're done. Not hard to do.

This matter has been plaguing our nation for ages. It's been a matter of incremental improvements. So just let the people involved and wanting to put it out there do it without distraction.

What more needs to be said? I don't think anyone wants people treated like that by any officers of the law. So anything not focused on fixing that issue is a waste of breath. Fact is someone baited Brees into discussing something inconsequential to the conversation and he took the bait when he should have stayed focused on the issue at hand.

[trents]

There is no such thing as different versions of the truth. People may emphasize different facets of the truth but truth is truth. And in his original statement Brees did an excellent and balanced job of covering all facets of the truth in the matter at hand. He expressed respect for the sacrifice made by our fathers to maintain our precious freedoms, condemned the mistreatment of George Floyd, showed understanding of the anger of the black community and condemned violence and anarchy. It was the balanced voice of truth and reason and he had nothing to apologize for in his statement. It's what we need to hear more of from more people in the black and the white community.

Kapernick's mistake was that he picked the wrong time and the wrong way to protest his concerns. How could you not associate his actions with disrespect for the country? The flag and national anthem stand for all of what America is about, good and bad. Since the incident, never have I heard him say he was not trying to show disrespect for the nation. That I know of, he has not issued any disclaimers to that effect. Whether or not he is loves his country as a whole is not clear at all from. As a celeb pro athlete he has a ton of access to the media and could have engaged the issues in more positive, constructive ways. Kap took the low road as Brees pointed out in his original tweet.

[mykc14]

I’m a big fan of Tony Dungy, he is a class act and has the perfect response to the situation surrounding Drew Brees:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnew ... mments.amp

“It may have been not exactly the way he wanted to express it, but he can’t be afraid to say that, and we can’t be afraid to say, ‘OK Drew, I don’t agree with you, but let’s talk about this, and let’s sit down and talk about it,’” Dungy said.

“We can’t just say anytime something happens that we don’t agree with, ‘Hey, I’m done with that and I’m done with this person,’ and that doesn’t make sense,” Dungy added. “We have to be better than that. This battle is not gonna be won by demonstrating and throwing bricks through windows. It’s not gonna be won by the government saying, ‘Hey, we’re gonna bring out these weapons and dominate the streets again.’ That is not gonna fix anything.”

[mykc14]

People have different versions of the truth. If Brees had stayed quiet or just said I support justice in this situation rather than discussing the matter of kneeling which has already been a divisive issue, he would have been fine. Plenty of celebrities are not saying much and not much is being said of them. You put a simple show of support and you're done. Not hard to do.

This matter has been plaguing our nation for ages. It's been a matter of incremental improvements. So just let the people involved and wanting to put it out there do it without distraction.

What more needs to be said? I don't think anyone wants people treated like that by any officers of the law. So anything not focused on fixing that issue is a waste of breath. Fact is someone baited Brees into discussing something inconsequential to the conversation and he took the bait when he should have stayed focused on the issue at hand.

The problem is it was an interview and he was asked specifically about kneeling for the flag. This is clearly something he feels very strongly about, and disagrees with. He is not in the wrong here- he should be able to discuss his belief in this regard... supporting what he believes the flag represents does not mean that he doesn’t support equality or that he doesn’t believe there is institutional racism in our country. People’s reaction to his statement is a much bigger problem than his statement. At the same time as a white celebrity right now it would be prudent to be careful how you say what you believe if it isn’t exactly in line with the BLM movement.

[jshawaii22]

The issue with accepting kneeling is one that came up the first time Kap did it. Are you only against the Police? Or are you also including the millions of current, former and (many who died on the battlefields) military men and women, who obviously many are black... Kap never distinguished this. Others did, like Seahawks' Bennett, who ( I think) his Father was military.
This is what Drew was talking about. Disrespecting the flag of the USA also disrespects the military.

To me, this is a very large distinction. Do the police need to be reigned in? If the new reports of the truth in Minnesota are true, that 2 of the officers had less then one week on the job and the 20 year+ 'training officer' has over 20 complaints against him for 'racially' charged items, then that is a system that needs change now. I'm sure that this is problematic throughout the USA. Seniority rules in the police departments. A new recruit can't step in there and fix it. It's a lose-lose for the 3 juniors that were charged. Sad --

[Zorn2Largent]

So the hypocrisy is so thick on this thread I can't breathe.
If Drew had said "f*** the flag, I'm not standing for any anthem so long as this continues" there wouldn't be this white whining about white men getting to say what they want. He'd be another Kaepernick. Ripped on repeatedly.

How dare anyone express feelings of disrespect for the flag!

See how this works with certainwhite people? And I say this as a native american. If it's not okay to criticize Brees then please delete all your criticism of Kaeprenick or stfu.
You can't have it both ways, but racists always try to.

[Aseahawkfan]

There is no such thing as different versions of the truth. People may emphasize different facets of the truth but truth is truth. And in his original statement Brees did an excellent and balanced job of covering all facets of the truth in the matter at hand. He expressed respect for the sacrifice made by our fathers to maintain our precious freedoms, condemned the mistreatment of George Floyd, showed understanding of the anger of the black community and condemned violence and anarchy. It was the balanced voice of truth and reason and he had nothing to apologize for in his statement. It's what we need to hear more of from more people in the black and the white community.

Kapernick's mistake was that he picked the wrong time and the wrong way to protest his concerns. How could you not associate his actions with disrespect for the country? The flag and national anthem stand for all of what America is about, good and bad. Since the incident, never have I heard him say he was not trying to show disrespect for the nation. That I know of, he has not issued any disclaimers to that effect. Whether or not he is loves his country as a whole is not clear at all from. As a celeb pro athlete he has a ton of access to the media and could have engaged the issues in more positive, constructive ways. Kap took the low road as Brees pointed out in his original tweet.

There are different versions of the truth. You just indicated that you don't know what truth is.

Here is the truth:
Those freedoms that many of the founders fought for did not apply to people of African descent or even many other ethnicities for over a century. African folk were literally enslaved, segregated, and mistreated legally for 184 years following the signing of the Constitution. So your truth is not their truth.

Their truth is that they have resided in a nation that has subjugated, mistreated, and violently harmed people of African descent.

Just as the truth of Native Americans is that they were pushed onto small tracts of land known as reservations, marginalized, and basically pushed to the point of extinction in a land they heavily occupied prior to colonization.

And the main people able to lay claim to the truth you seem to think is the standard for everyone are people of European ancestry. That is there truth, not the truth of other people. Those other people are fighting to obtain what you so dearly hold as the legacy of your forefathers. That is what they want. Y

If you want some real discussion of the truth, we can have that with piles of evidence showing some real truth that you don't appear ready to admit to.

[Aseahawkfan]

People should fear more the day you can't kneel during the national anthem, can't burn the flag, or can't insult a president or question your nation or call out the police. All the people that fought for this nation did not fight for some dictatorship of flag-worshipping people who think of their nation as sacrosanct. They fought so that the flag and what it stood for meant people could kneel, protest, and always have the opportunity right wrongs, injustices, and imperfections in the nation that do not stand well with its stated beliefs.

If you want all that freedom our ancestors fought for in the varying ways they have fought to mean something, then time to get done what needs to get done to end this racial crap. We have a lot of different fights over the history of this nation whether it is the Revolutionaries who started it all, the Civil War Era revolutionaries who brought an end to slavery, the soldiers in World War 1 and 2 who fought to stop colonialism and conquering, the Civil Rights marchers that demanded equality and an end to racial inequity and injustice, and the modern day protesters of police brutality and racial injustice. They all are fighting for the same thing however imperfectly. That fight isn't done until freedom is for all people free from government tyranny and traitorous racists who want to keep that freedom limited to certain groups.

This is just part of one long fight for the same thing.

[mykc14]

So the hypocrisy is so thick on this thread I can't breathe.
If Drew had said "f*** lthe flag, I'm not standing for any anthem so long as this continues" there wouldn't be this white whining about white men getting to say what they want. He'd be another Kaepernick. Ripped on repeatedly.

How dare anyone express feelings of disrespect for the flag!

See how this works with certainwhite people? And I say this as a native american. If it's not okay to criticize Brees then please delete all your criticism of Kaeprenick or stfu.
You can't have it both ways, but racists always try to.

I honestly don’t get this viewpoint so please explain it to me. Why can’t somebody agree with Kaep’s right to kneel for the flag, but disagree with it? Why do we have to agree with the way somebody protests? Why can’t somebody agree with Brees (I would never kneel for the flag) and disagree with kaep? I’m not even saying I would NEVER kneel for the flag, but I did disagree with Kaep, at the same time being proud to live in a country where he has the right to do so. I don’t care if somebody disagrees with Brees, but he has the right to express his opinion and people calling him racist for this statement are wrong. Just like it would be wrong to get mad at Kaep without even looking at what he was kneeling for.

[Zorn2Largent]

My point wasn't directed at Brees, it was directed at those making the typical racist "PC" whine directed at people who complained about Brees statements. These same people have been ripping into Kaepernick. So their (driven by racism) stance is it's okay to deny Kaep a job, ridicule him, etc. for his beliefs, but how dare you do a fraction of that to Brees for having the (highly defended by Racists) opposite belief.

Is that clearer now?

If you're going to spend untold posts ripping Kaep you don't get to whine when Brees gets ripped too.

[mykc14]

My point wasn't directed at Brees, it was directed at those making the typical racist "PC" whine directed at people who complained about Brees statements. These same people have been ripping into Kaepernick. So their (driven by racism) stance is it's okay to deny Kaep a job, ridicule him, etc. for his beliefs, but how dare you do a fraction of that to Brees for having the (highly defended by Racists) opposite belief.

Is that clearer now?

If you're going to spend untold posts ripping Kaep you don't get to whine when Brees gets ripped too.

I understand what you’re saying, my point is just that you can agree with Brees and disagree with Kaep and not be a racist or you can disagree with Brees and agree with Kaep and not be anti-American. With that being said the argument you are making works both ways: those who are ripping Brees also would be hypocritical if they agree with Kaep. My stance is that both have the right to say/do what they said/did and we have the right to agree/disagree with either one and as long as our reasons for agreeing/disagreeing aren’t based on race we aren’t racist. The problem is that we can’t know people’s motives. To me this is one of the issues, vocal people on both sides won’t give the other side the time of day to actually see why they might believe what they do.

[Zorn2Largent]

No,actually, you can't. If you CHOOSE to let the flag issue distract you from the underlying issue, then you CHOOSE to be racist. That's part of what racism is and does. You became racist the moment you made that choice.
You choose to be distracted as a way of not listening. You choose not to listen because you know if you don't hear us, you can't be challenged to change your racist beliefs. If you can't do that, then your heart can't be changed. If your heart doesn't change, then policies, laws and systemic racism doesn't change.

That's what's at stake if you CHOOSE to make the argument you just did.

So no, you literally can/t or you ARE racist.

[mykc14]

No,actually, you can't. If you CHOOSE to let the flag issue distract you from the underlying issue, then you CHOOSE to be racist. That's part of what racism is and does. You became racist the moment you made that choice.
You choose to be distracted as a way of not listening. You choose not to listen because you know if you don't hear us, you can't be challenged to change your racist beliefs. If you can't do that, then your heart can't be changed. If your heart doesn't change, then policies, laws and systemic racism doesn't change.

That's what's at stake if you CHOOSE to make the argument you just did.

So no, you literally can/t or you ARE racist.

Interesting, so somebody could march with black people, write essays about systematic racism, defend minorities at every point but if they don’t agree with how Kaep protested they are racist? Could you agree with MLK but not Malcolm X? Both wanted similar things but their methods were vastly different. To say that anybody who disagrees with kneeling for the flag is racist seems narrow-minded at best, heck I know black people and other minorities who don’t agree with it. What are they? If you limit the people who are willing to support most aspects of a movement like BLM then it seems like it will create a situation that will be difficult to garner enough support. I mean it seems ridiculous that somebody could completely agree with everything BLM stands for but won’t kneel for the flag and the organizers are like too bad your not with us you’re a racist. Shouldn’t that person at least be able to explain their position? Why shouldn’t they stand in agreement with you while you kneel?

[Zorn2Largent]

Because instead of saying "it's terrible that you're kneeling during the anthem, but killing black people has to stop" They're saying "It's terrible black people are getting killed, but kneeling at the anthem has to stop."

And if that's too much for you to grasp, then I cannot say what I think about you without getting banned. Just the fact that you're still trying to dissemble this argument makes I find repugnant.

[mykc14]

Because instead of saying "it's terrible that you're kneeling during the anthem, but killing black people has to stop" They're saying "It's terrible black people are getting killed, but kneeling at the anthem has to stop."

And if that's too much for you to grasp, then I cannot say what I think about you without getting banned. Just the fact that you're still trying to dissemble this argument makes I find repugnant.

I’m not trying to disassemble anything, I’m honestly trying to understand your point of view. I’m not saying that kneeling at the anthem needs to stop, if people feel like a peaceful protest like that will make a difference than by all means continue.My point is it seems to me that people can support a movement without agreeing with everything that people within that movement do as a form of protest. If some protesters want to become violent and others don’t, they still are fighting for the same thing, they just disagree with how they should protest. Honestly I am Pretty sure I agree with you way more than disagree and if my line of discussion/questions are coming off as repugnant to you we don’t need to continue, the last thing we need is more division.

Also, as I read back on our replies it seems to me that you are mainly talking about people who are saying that Kaep shouldn’t be able to kneel or that he should be black-balled for kneeling. I just want to be clear that those are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about people who believe that Kaep had every right to kneel for the flag, they just disagreed that that was the best forum for him to get his message out... it doesn’t mean that his message was wrong. Again I don’t want to push this to a point where you are getting angry or want to say something that will get you banned, I just wanted to make that clear.

[trents]

"No,actually, you can't. If you CHOOSE to let the flag issue distract you from the underlying issue, then you CHOOSE to be racist. That's part of what racism is and does. You became racist the moment you made that choice.
You choose to be distracted as a way of not listening. You choose not to listen because you know if you don't hear us, you can't be challenged to change your racist beliefs. If you can't do that, then your heart can't be changed. If your heart doesn't change, then policies, laws and systemic racism doesn't change.

That's what's at stake if you CHOOSE to make the argument you just did.

So no, you literally can/t or you ARE racist."

That is illogical and a false dichotomy. Racial discrimination is an important issue that needs attention but so is the flag issue. It If we lose sight of the flag issue then eventually all our freedoms will be lost. You wrongly label the flag issue as a distraction. It is very important.

And I wasn't and neither is anybody else denying Kap's right to protest the way he did. What I am saying is that it was in bad taste and he could have had a more positive impact had he chosen another time and another way. The way he chose to do it communicated to me and to a lot of other people that he doesn't appreciate the country as a whole, very imperfect with work to be done but a much better place to live with much more freedom than he or anyone else might have in a lot of other places. He seemed to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. He used a machete when a scalpel would have been more appropriate. He failed to acknowledge that while there is still a lot of work to be done there is a lot of progress that has been made with regard to racial equality. As someone who grew up in the segregated South in the 50's and 60's I can tell you that is so.

And I reiterate what I said earlier. That I know of, Kapernick has made no attempt to explain that, while he meant to draw attention to possible/probable strongholds of racial inequality such as treatment of blacks by law enforcement, that he loves and appreciates America as a whole. So while I certainly acknowledge his freedom to disparage his country, I also acknowledge my freedom to criticize him for how he chose to do it. Rosa Parks did it better because her refusal to go to the back of the bus targeted an evil cultural norm without denigrating the whole of what America is. And so did MLK. MLK drew attention to the evil of racism without disparaging the totality of the American experience. I think Kap might have a different perspective on America if he found himself living in China, North Korea or Iran.

[NorthHawk]

Here's Arian Fosters viewpoint:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... some-dont/

[mykc14]

Here's Arian Fosters viewpoint:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... some-dont/

I agree completely with his statement!!

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't like Colin Kaepernick because he was a 49er. I was so tired of listening to 49er punk fans saying he was better than Russell. Who got the last laugh there? Sorry, I don't like Colin K. He's a 49er. Never much cared about his protests though. I see his face and remember our battles with the 49ers.

Freedoms are not lost by not respecting a flag which is a piece of cloth with colors on it that only means something if the values the flag represents are worth supporting and apply to all. Otherwise the flag means nothing. And that is how many folk of African descent feel about the flag or worse. Some in fact think the American flag symbolizes oppression and racism.

So all this flag talk by Brees and some on this thread is just another example of ignoring American history in favor of your personal beliefs. Because after World War 2 when all those grandfathers came home, many of them voted for segregation, supported separate but equal laws, called the police on folk of African descent to push them back of the bus or make them use the right race water fountain, and other such trash. Brees and everyone else thinking their grandfathers came back to a free nation after fighting World War 2 need to wake up to the fact America was not free to folk of African descent. They did not receive the freedoms that flag represents to people of European descent. And if they are not willing to admit this, then they are part of the problem on top of being generally dishonest about their fully documented history.

This nation has a poisonous history with folk of African descent. They will never love the same American heroes that European ancestry people hold up because those are not their heroes. They may one day come to love this nation because their people are as tied to it now as people of European ancestry. They will never love George Washington and Thomas Jefferson as European ancestry people do nor look to the grandfathers of old soldiers in the same way because they supported the evil of racism. There are plenty of Americans of Ancestry who have fought for the freedoms provided in our Constitution and plenty men of European ancestry who have also stepped up to end slavery and racism. The African man will remember his friends and look to his past for those who aided him in his quest for freedom and equality in this great nation.

[RiverDog]

Colin Kaepernick is a horrible role model and a very poor choice to lead this current crusade to reach across racial divides and convince the rest of America that there is, indeed, a problem with our attitudes. If it was only his choice to kneel during the national anthem, then I wouldn't have near the problem with him that I do, or at least may have changed my opinion of him after the course of recent events.

But this is a man that wore apparel in public mocking police as pigs, that showed his admiration for Fidel Castro, and whom admitted on national TV that he doesn't even vote. That's not the kind of message that's going to bridge the divide and heal the wounds. The black community needs to be reaching out, not thumbing their noses or advocating an "in your face" approach as would the message a Kaepernick-style model would be sending.

There are scores of other prominent African Americans that would not be near the lightening rod and make the discussion about the content rather than the person delivering the content. Our own Russell Wilson is one, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar another that comes to mind.

[c_hawkbob]

So what? The same could be (and was) said about Rodney King. A movement like this doesn't get together and plan ahead of time who is going to lead it, it happens purely by circumstance and timing. The point is the message, not the messenger.

[RiverDog]

The point is the message, not the messenger.

Which was my point about Kaepernick. If you have him in the lead, as some have suggested, the discussion will inevitably be about Kaepernick rather than the message he carries. Simply put, he has too much baggage.

Kaepernick needs to go away and let someone universally liked and respected to carry the torch.

[c_hawkbob]

I didn't suggest it at all, I was responding to your suggestion. My point is the person that becomes the catalyst, whether King Kaepernick or George Floyd is secondary to the point of a movement.

[RiverDog]

I didn't suggest it at all, I was responding to your suggestion. My point is the person that becomes the catalyst, whether King Kaepernick or George Floyd is secondary to the point of a movement.

I didn't say that 'you' suggested it. I said that 'some' were suggesting it. As a matter of fact, there are 'some' that are suggesting that the Minnesota Vikings bring in Kaepernick as their backup, as if that could be part of the solution to the problem of police brutality and our indifference to it.

[Hawktawk]

Brees surprised me with the initial comments. He always seemed to be an intelligent community oriented good guy. Weirdly enough i recall both Dangrerruss and Dak saying last year they wiould not disrespect the flag with very little blowback. At least Brees apologized.Its a diffent story than a year ago obviously

[trents]

Rosa Parks got the attention of the nation by moving to the back of the bus.

Collin Kapernick drew attention to himself and threw his country under the bus.

Another "truth" is that statistics do not support the idea that white officers target African Americans more often than do black officers. Just as many or more AA are killed by black cops as they are white cops and this article makes the point that black police offers seem to expect trouble more often from blacks just as much as white officers do:

https://psmag.com/social-justice/black- ... k-suspects


And this is a fascinating watch:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=705551473535671

As I said earlier, a lot of this protesting is emotional hype rather than truth based.

[RiverDog]

Rosa Parks got the attention of the nation by moving to the back of the bus.

Collin Kapernick drew attention to himself and threw his country under the bus.

Another "truth" is that statistics do not support the idea that white officers target African Americans more often than do black officers. Just as many or more AA are killed by black cops as they are white cops and this article makes the point that black police offers seem to expect trouble more often from blacks just as much as white officers do:

https://psmag.com/social-justice/black- ... k-suspects


And this is a fascinating watch:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=705551473535671

As I said earlier, a lot of this protesting is emotional hype rather than truth based.

I'm sure it's just an oversight, but Rosa Parks got the attention of the nation by refusing to give her seat to a white male passenger.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

It strikes me more that Brees' comment wasn't really awful; he simply stated what he felt about the flag and what it means to him, and yet now he's been forced to abandon his belief. He disagrees with kneeling for the flag during the US national anthem. I did not hear him calling for kneeling to stop or recommending they not be allowed to play. He isn't the only one out there that feels that way. My brother and my best friend are both serving. Both have been deployed overseas separated from family, been shot at and targeted with bombs and saw close friends and comrades die under that flag. They know everyone in this country has the right to kneel if they want to, and that that is what they are serving for. Doesn't mean they have to agree with it or like it, and I won't brow beat them into apologizing for feeling that way. Brees has every right to feel the way he feels about it, just as everyone else does. Regardless of what the stated intentions are by the protesters; they can't control how others perceive. Life is full of our perceptions not matching up with the intention of others.

[RiverDog]

It strikes me more that Brees' comment wasn't really awful; he simply stated what he felt about the flag and what it means to him, and yet now he's been forced to abandon his belief. He disagrees with kneeling for the flag during the US national anthem. I did not hear him calling for kneeling to stop or recommending they not be allowed to play. He isn't the only one out there that feels that way. My brother and my best friend are both serving. Both have been deployed overseas separated from family, been shot at and targeted with bombs and saw close friends and comrades die under that flag. They know everyone in this country has the right to kneel if they want to, and that that is what they are serving for. Doesn't mean they have to agree with it or like it, and I won't brow beat them into apologizing for feeling that way. Brees has every right to feel the way he feels about it, just as everyone else does. Regardless of what the stated intentions are by the protesters; they can't control how others perceive. Life is full of our perceptions not matching up with the intention of others.

I didn't have a problem with what he said, either, but his timing was piss poor, and I'm surprised at his lack of sensitivity to how the moment makes almost as much difference as his message.