Clowney

[RiverDog]

Just read an interesting article that supposedly showed a picture of the contract the Hawks offered Clowney. It was 2 years 27 mil with 20 mil guaranteed. Can’t say for sure if it was real or not but it definitely fits with what we’ve heard- the Jawks offer was 13.5/year. That’s interesting and you’d have to wonder if another 3 mil a year would have sealed the deal (what we have Hollister) or 2 mil (Hunt) or both of them 5 mil. It seems 16-18 definitely would have gotten it done. If we don’t sign him I seriously have to question JS and PC on this one. I would rather have Clowney than Hunt and Hollister... or one of the lineman we signed for 2.5 million. It just seems like this deal easily should have been done and the Hawks didn’t deal the deal. I know we don’t know the exact details- maybe the Hawks would have been willing to go up if he wasn’t demanding 20 plus a year at first. Who knows but it will definitely be disappointing if we don’t sign him.


Here’s the article I read:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/ ... eaked/amp/

The date in the letterhead reads March 17th, right at the opening of free agency. Is that some sort of a form letter for all 2020 free agency contract offers or is that the date that specific offer was made?

[obiken]

I am off Clowney, if we sign him fine, if we dont fine, either way I dont think it makes much difference.

[mykc14]

The date in the letterhead reads March 17th, right at the opening of free agency. Is that some sort of a form letter for all 2020 free agency contract offers or is that the date that specific offer was made?

I saw that at first, but it says it was updated April 8th... I looked back and the March 17th Article was quoting somebody who said that he was offered 13.5 mil/year but it didn’t have the picture of he contract. I have no idea if it’s legit or not. If it is it’s pretty cool to see the structure of an offer like that (but not cool that we haven’t offered him enough to get him signed).

[mykc14]

I am off Clowney, if we sign him fine, if we dont fine, either way I dont think it makes much difference.

Remember this if we don’t sign him and our pass rush is worse than last year... we need him and it seems like we could have got him for less than 18 mil/year. It is going to be really frustrating if we don’t go him.

[RiverDog]

I am off Clowney, if we sign him fine, if we dont fine, either way I dont think it makes much difference.

Remember this if we don’t sign him and our pass rush is worse than last year... we need him and it seems like we could have got him for less than 18 mil/year. It is going to be really frustrating if we don’t go him.

I'm getting frustrated, too. I've never seen a free agent that was in the top 3, perhaps the top FA of the season, go this long unsigned. The only thing I can think of is that it is somehow being influenced by the coronavirus crisis.

Our pass rush was horrid last season, the biggest weak spot on our defense, and for that matter, the entire team. You improve by addition, not by subtraction. There is no other player available that can give us what Clowney has, which leaves us with either hoping one of the current players on our team steps up (Collier, Green?) or that we find a sleeper in the draft. If Clowney signs somewhere else for $18M or less, pending some explanation from our FO (coronavirus?), I'm going to be upset as well.

[RiverDog]

The date in the letterhead reads March 17th, right at the opening of free agency. Is that some sort of a form letter for all 2020 free agency contract offers or is that the date that specific offer was made?

I saw that at first, but it says it was updated April 8th... I looked back and the March 17th Article was quoting somebody who said that he was offered 13.5 mil/year but it didn’t have the picture of he contract. I have no idea if it’s legit or not. If it is it’s pretty cool to see the structure of an offer like that (but not cool that we haven’t offered him enough to get him signed).

OK, so if we trust that the photo is genuine, we know that we had a $13M offer on the table as of 3/17, the opening of free agency, but we're not sure of the amount of the updated offer or if it was updated at all.

It's pretty hard for me to believe that we'd make such an outrageously low offer then stick with it on a player that the FO proclaimed was our #1 FA priority. If we see a picture of him holding up a green or brown jersey, I guess we'll know it was legit.

[mykc14]

River- I agree. It would be really frustrating if this was our best/only offer. We will never really know what has happened but the fact that we haven’t got this done is telling, IMO. If he really did drop his asking price to 17-18 mil and we did increase our offer to 15-16 then why haven’t we got it done yet? The idea that he supposedly dropped his demands and we still haven’t gotten anything done suggests to me that we have been pretty set on that 13.5 number. Given our other moves it seems like one of the worst non-moves in the PC/JS era that we haven’t been able to sign him. Again, I am sure there is more to the story- maybe the Hawks already moved to plan B by the time he lowered his number or maybe he was so insulted by our first offer that he crossed us off the list- who knows, but if they don’t get this done and our pass-rush is the thing that keeps us from making the SB next year it is a HUGE FAIL. RW isn’t getting any younger and this was the year we HAD TO FIX THE PASS RUSH!!!

[Zorn2Largent]

Should have hung onto Frank Clark to begin with. I think we end up with Griffen.

[RiverDog]

I am sure there is more to the story- maybe the Hawks already moved to plan B by the time he lowered his number or maybe he was so insulted by our first offer that he crossed us off the list- who knows...

Except I thought that Plan B was signing Everson Griffen, who remains unsigned.

Something is really strange with this story. I keep thinking that the coronavirus crisis has affected these negotiations. Do they think that the season will be played w/o fans, and if so, how would that affect a player's contract if at all? Is there some sort of medical issue they're worried about? I'm reluctant to come out and rail on PC and JS until I get more information.

[NorthHawk]

What is interesting is 2 teams had him on their roster and didn’t want to give
him a long term contract at the price he wanted even though they both thought
he is a disruptive force on the DL. It raises questions about his long term health
and/or chronic injuries as there hasn’t been much if any talk about his fit
within either team. Or might it be as simple as the money he wants will only
be paid to DL with high sack totals?

[jshawaii22]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... nger-wait/

He's a history lesson for the Seahawks. I read that between the headlines... unless he wants to play for around 12m this year, and signs before the draft.

[NorthHawk]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/21/seahawks-gm-door-not-closed-on-jadeveon-clowney-but-could-no-longer-wait/

He's a history lesson for the Seahawks. I read that between the headlines... unless he wants to play for around 12m this year, and signs before the draft.

This article suggests we are offering about $15mm. Who knows what's real but if we don't get some good DL help in the draft it might give him
some leverage.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/seatt ... ews-rumors

[RiverDog]

I don't have a link, but the rumor is that Clowney is signing with the Titans, deal to be announced tomorrow morning.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm still reading maybe not: http://www.paulkuharsky.com/?fbclid=IwA ... 7YjMQjZLSg

[mykc14]

I don't have a link, but the rumor is that Clowney is signing with the Titans, deal to be announced tomorrow morning.

Interesting, where have you been hearing that? I know 3pm Eastern time was important and some speculated he would sign with the Titans right after that, but obviously that came and went. I would imagine the action on him would pick up at this point though... the draft is over and after 3pm today he no longer counted against compensatory formula for next year. Teams now have a better idea of what their teams look like and if he could help them they might be willing to pay a little more now and a team like Tennessee certainly would be a team that would have to think he take them to the next level. The good news for the Hawks is we have as much cap space as the Titans now so we don’t have to worry about getting out-bid by them if we really want him, obviously a team like Cleveland could still come in and offer him 20 mil (I don’t think that will happen, though).

[RiverDog]

Sorry I don't have a link. I saw it on a tweet yesterday evening and couldn't figure out how to copy it and now I can't find it at all. I guess we'll find out in a few hours.

However, I do see where Clayton is reporting that the Hawks may have increased their offer to the $15.5M-$16M range, but it sounds like it's based purely on speculation following the release of Fluker and Britt:

They were going to be in that $13M-$15M range, but I'm thinking they may have topped that. I think they may have gone to $15.5M-$16M." @JohnClaytonNFL on what the subtractions of Fluker & Britt mean for Seattle's pursuit of Jadeveon Clowney

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/288 ... ewton-more

[NorthHawk]

An article in PFT suggests we aren't offering $16.5 million as that would have been the UFA tender.
So we are narrowing down what we are offering.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... n-clowney/

[NorthHawk]

Jarran Reed just announced he has #90 back.
It might mean Clowney isn't coming back.
Maybe it's a ploy to extract more money from Clowney if he does in fact re-sign.

[Rambo2014]

Little wonder why the Seahawks have fell on hard times. They pay cheap, use the player, and then throw them out like a pile of trash. What disrespect!!! same with Sherman, Thomas, and many more.

5-11 at best this season

[jshawaii22]

Little wonder why the Seahawks have fell on hard times. They pay cheap, use the player, and then throw them out like a pile of trash. What disrespect!!! same with Sherman, Thomas, and many more.

5-11 at best this season

Well, that's better then the 3 wins you gave us last year. By the way, did you look at the standings at the end of last year? Where were the lambs? And you're right, we're 'cheap' with players who DON'T deserve the money, that's how we keep winning and the Lambs... they pay a hurt running back a billion $$$$ and then cut him a year later. Overpaying is worse then underpaying in a Cap controlled league.

[Aseahawkfan]

Little wonder why the Seahawks have fell on hard times. They pay cheap, use the player, and then throw them out like a pile of trash. What disrespect!!! same with Sherman, Thomas, and many more.

5-11 at best this season

How is your QB doing? How did you like his regression? Make you feel better about your team? Goff not even close to the same league as Wilson.

[NorthHawk]

This article says Clowney is waiting until the pandemic restrictions are eased so he can get a physical
from teams before he signs a new contract.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... on-clowney

[RiverDog]

This article says Clowney is waiting until the pandemic restrictions are eased so he can get a physical
from teams before he signs a new contract.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... on-clowney

Well, it's the first news regarding Clowney for awhile, and at least they've squelched the rumors that got started when Reed tweeted about getting his #90 back. It makes you wonder WTF Reed was doing.

If Clowney's strategy truly is as stated, it seems pretty risky. Everson Griffen is still unsigned, and if one of the teams signs him before Clowney, that could leave him with fewer suitors and a lower salary.

[mykc14]

This article says Clowney is waiting until the pandemic restrictions are eased so he can get a physical
from teams before he signs a new contract.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... on-clowney

Am I missing something here? How hard would it be f or these billionaire owners to figure out a way to get a physical done in a situation like this? I don’t think the Hawks need a physical as they are the most up to date on him in that regard, but a team like that Titans have to be able to figure out a way to get Clowney and their team doctor, or a doctor that that trust who is not directly affiliated with the team, together to get a physical done. IMO he is kidding himself if he thinks the main reason this hasn’t gotten done is because he can’t get checked out by Dr’s... It seems like Clowney is showing the rest of the league how not to go about Free Agency, and it’s probably his agents fault. Step 1) the week before FA tell all of the teams that you want to be the highest paid player in the league, overvaluing your personal and positional market by 10 mil, and turning off most teams who would have possibly been in on you. 2) buying into the idea that the only reason you haven’t been signed is because of COVID restrictions not allowing teams to sign you. 3) Finally lowering your asking price AFTER 90% of the available money in free agency had been spent elsewhere. 4) continuing to blame the virus as the only reason you haven’t been signed and delaying the process even more. I know I don’t have all the inside information, but it just seems like him and his ant really screwed this up.,.

[c_hawkbob]

This article says Clowney is waiting until the pandemic restrictions are eased so he can get a physical
from teams before he signs a new contract.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... on-clowney

Well, it's the first news regarding Clowney for awhile, and at least they've squelched the rumors that got started when Reed tweeted about getting his #90 back. It makes you wonder WTF Reed was doing.

If Clowney's strategy truly is as stated, it seems pretty risky. Everson Griffen is still unsigned, and if one of the teams signs him before Clowney, that could leave him with fewer suitors and a lower salary.

I think Reed is probably having a laugh at all the posters on FB Seahawks groups. I also agree that Griffen could be the flaw in Clowney's plan, but I still don't blame him.

[mykc14]

If Clowney's strategy truly is as stated, it seems pretty risky. Everson Griffen is still unsigned, and if one of the teams signs him before Clowney, that could leave him with fewer suitors and a lower salary
I think Reed is probably having a laugh at all the posters on FB Seahawks groups. I also agree that Griffen could be the flaw in Clowney's plan, but I still don't blame him.

At this point I don’t really blame him either. He’s sort backed himself into a corner, although like others have said, the Hawks or Titans could sign Griffen which could leave him with only one realistic suitor. At the same time somebody else could emerge and drive up his price. Another problem he has, which is actually respectable to me (if true) is that he only wants to sign with a contender. In the end if he gets 5 mil more/yr from a team like Cleveland or the Jets it would be really hard to blame him for taking the money. I just don’t see how, if a team wanted to sign him for 17-20 mil/yr, they couldn’t figure out a way to get a full medical check in somewhere, somehow. Brady was able to get it done, I just think the meet doesn’t value him as much as he thought. It seems extremely unlikely that the Hawk or Titans will increase their offer after Covid restrictions are lifted and what other contender is going to have the cap room to add him at this point?

[RiverDog]

At this point I don’t really blame him either. He’s sort backed himself into a corner, although like others have said, the Hawks or Titans could sign Griffen which could leave him with only one realistic suitor. At the same time somebody else could emerge and drive up his price. Another problem he has, which is actually respectable to me (if true) is that he only wants to sign with a contender. In the end if he gets 5 mil more/yr from a team like Cleveland or the Jets it would be really hard to blame him for taking the money. I just don’t see how, if a team wanted to sign him for 17-20 mil/yr, they couldn’t figure out a way to get a full medical check in somewhere, somehow. Brady was able to get it done, I just think the meet(market, teams?) doesn’t value him as much as he thought. It seems extremely unlikely that the Hawk or Titans will increase their offer after Covid restrictions are lifted and what other contender is going to have the cap room to add him at this point?

My thoughts exactly. I don't see how his supposed strategy of waiting for the Covid restrictions to be lifted and getting a team physical is going to change the equation to such a point that it would net him that much more money.

[NorthHawk]

There might also be the thought on his part that he doesn’t want to risk
further injury for less than his asking price and he would sit out for a year or so
if it meant getting his asking price next year. He might also have enough
money saved up that he’s willing to walk away if in his mind the reward isn’t
worth the risk/future pain at less than his asking price.

[jshawaii22]

"sitting out a year" is absolutely no way to get "your price" next year. Usually gets you a lot less and at best a one- year maybe a second year with a team option as an offer.

While its against current league rules for Clowney to go to team HQ's to be medically looked at, there are no rules at all to stop him from seeking his own doctor to go through checkup. Tua just did it right before the draft, and his seeking out medical and a 'live' workout helped his draft stock.
Maybe Clowney's really just not healthy and having issues and just doesn't want it to go public.

[RiverDog]

"sitting out a year" is absolutely no way to get "your price" next year. Usually gets you a lot less and at best a one- year maybe a second year with a team option as an offer.

While its against current league rules for Clowney to go to team HQ's to be medically looked at, there are no rules at all to stop him from seeking his own doctor to go through checkup. Tua just did it right before the draft, and his seeking out medical and a 'live' workout helped his draft stock.
Maybe Clowney's really just not healthy and having issues and just doesn't want it to go public.

There is no way that any football player is going to consider sitting out a year as an option if he's healthy. He's not going to get a contract big enough to make up for the wages he loses during the idle season. That's why players are so reluctant to consider strikes during labor disputes as every paycheck they miss has to be made up by a progressively bigger one if the strike is to benefit them personally.

IMO the most likely reason for his not signing is one that he and/or his agent vastly overestimated his market value. We can sit here and explain away a 3 sack season by noting his value as a disruptor, but 3 sacks takes a lot of rationalizing, especially when none of his teammates benefited very much from that disruption by sacking the QB themselves. Plus there's little doubt that his value was diminished somewhat by the COVID restrictions. Now he's put himself into a conundrum and has resolved to wait until the last possible moment to sign with a team in the hopes that an offer closer to his expectation materializes.

[NorthHawk]

For some players money isn't everything and they are willing to either sit out or
say goodbye after earning a boatload of cash over a relatively short period of time.
We don't know if he's one of them or not, but we do know he's willing to gamble
with his financial future so it might be a possibility.

[RiverDog]

For some players money isn't everything and they are willing to either sit out or
say goodbye after earning a boatload of cash over a relatively short period of time.
We don't know if he's one of them or not, but we do know he's willing to gamble
with his financial future so it might be a possibility.

Anything is a possibility, but I'd rank that one towards the lower end of the range. Clowney didn't give me the impression that his personal pride meant that much to him, that he'd sit out the season rather than disgrace himself by signing for a mere pittance of $15M.

[NorthHawk]

Well, he's willing to gamble those millions, so it might not mean as much as we hope.
I do expect him to sign somewhere, too but it's an option for him.

[mykc14]

[quote="RiverDog"][quote="mykc14"]

My thoughts exactly. I don't see how his supposed strategy of waiting for the Covid restrictions to be lifted and getting a team physical is going to change the equation to such a point that it would net him that much more money.[/


Yeah, that was supposed to say MARKET, not meet, thanks!

[Agent 86]

Well, he's willing to gamble those millions, so it might not mean as much as we hope.
I do expect him to sign somewhere, too but it's an option for him.

I think "ego" is playing a bit of a part in this. And I don't mean that in a negative way towards Clowney. I mean that in general terms for anyone in his situation. Him and his agent thought they were gonna get paid this offseason, probably a 4-5 year deal worth somewhere around $20 million, at least in their minds. So with that in their minds, you can imagine how he must feel after getting the offers he got, nowhere near what he thought. That has to be a bit of a shock to the system and ego I would think. He wanted to sign on his terms, and now I don't think he feels in control of the situation. With the whole virus thing, he is unable to visit other teams and get properly evaluated and probably feels if he signs now, he is "giving in". It seems like a given that when he signs, it will only be a 1 year deal and he will look to then get the deal he wanted next off season instead.

I think him waiting longer is to try to gain a bit more control of the situation, get to a point where he can travel to see other teams. If you were a top UFA, I think the process of being wined and dined would be truly an amazing experience, he never got to do that. The whole process went about as bad as it could for him, so I think he is disappointed in how everything has gone and wasn't willing to sign a long term deal for $13-$15 million as the rumours are.

I really hope the 'Hawks sign him, he is a difference maker. I don't care if he only got 3 sacks last year. Dude played through a serious injury that he could have opted to have surgery on and shut er down for the year. Obviously, his pending UFA status played a part in that (another reason I think he is disappointed, he showed he would play through pain and probably doesn't feel that is being recognized). Playing through that injury and gutting it out week after week (he did miss 2-3 games?) would certainly make a huge impression on his teammates and the staff in Seattle. They are a better team with him in the lineup, you know he is well liked in the room, and with the 49'ers being as strong as they are, the 'Hawks defense needs to step up their game to compete for the division.

I have read some reports/articles from beat writers that state Seattle's D last year was bad, and Clowney was part of it, so they don't need him. That is just idiotic thinking, I don't think I need to explain why. I think most of us saw the impact he can have on games, and yes injuries and consistency are issues, but they are better with him. I am comfortable with how Pete and John have negotiated so far, and it seems they really want him back, but not at the cost he is currently looking for.

[NorthHawk]

I wonder if there isn't a bit of ego on our FO side as well.
Sometimes when neither side budges, it comes down to personalities and losing face.
I just hope we don't lose him because of a million or two dollars.

[mykc14]

I wonder if there isn't a bit of ego on our FO side as well.
Sometimes when neither side budges, it comes down to personalities and losing face.
I just hope we don't lose him because of a million or two dollars.

I don’t think there is ego on the Hawks side, I think they just have a specific budget and price they are willing to pay a player. They value him at a certain price and he’s currently not willing to sign for that price. We’ve seen it with other guys as well Tate, Sherm, etc... I do agree, however, that it would be a big mistake by our front office to lose him over 2-3 million, especially considering where that 2-3 million was spent. I will cut them a bit of a break, though because the Clowney situation has handcuffed them a bit.

[NorthHawk]

Maybe Clowney is playing it right. Could the Eagles and Ravens be serious suitors?

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... on-clowney

[mykc14]

Maybe Clowney is playing it right. Could the Eagles and Ravens be serious suitors?

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... on-clowney

I definitely think they could be suitors, the Ravens would have to make some moves to fit him in their cap. IMO it depends on what they do with Judon. If they keep him they probably are not serious duties, but if they are able to trade him then I could see them making a hard push. The Eagles on the other hand are legitimate duties right now. They have the cap space and the need, but the question is will they outbid the Hawks or Titans. I just don’t see any of these teams putting out a ridiculous offer, besides the Ravens they all have roughly the same amount of cap space 18-22 mil (Ravens have about 9), and are well run organizations who simply don’t overpay what the market dictates. The Browns are another story. They do have the cap space and they aren’t a well-run organization so I could see them going over the top for him. The question is how much more would it require for him to sign in Cleveland. At any rate it looks like we are in for a whole lot more waiting!

[Agent 86]

Bit of an update today from the man himself:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001112885/article/clowney-ready-for-next-step-open-to-seahawks-return