Some (random??) thoughts about the Seahawks blueprint

[HumanCockroach]

They signed Van Roten.
Who is he?
An undrafted free agent who missed most of last year with a foot injury.

Might it be possible some of those on the list might have better ability or is this another example of cheaping out on the OL?
With all those on this list why not work some of them out in an attempt to improve the talent base?

So we have the following non Centers:
Okung - 1st round - very good player when healthy.
Carpenter - 1st round - has not yet shown 1st round ability
Van Roten - Undrafted Free Agent hurt last year cut from Packers
Sweezy - 7th Round Converted DT - still learning OL
Bailey - Undrafted Free Agent
Bowie - 7th round
Caylun Hauptmann - Undrafted Free Agent - signed off the Browns Practice Squad

Notice a pattern, here?
After whiffing on Moffit and Carpenter,in 2011, they only selected Sweezy in the 7th round in 2012.

It's surprising how little attention they have given the OL over the last couple of years.

So the Seahawks have multiple draft choices on the line, and have focussed on the offensive line far more with early draft picks than any other position, and have signed guys you haven't heard of, and this shows neglect how exactly? That is three of the five starter that have been drafted rounds 1-3 ( Okung, Carpenter and Unger, even though they didn't draft him, they indeed resigned him right?). Have signed MULTIPLE players on the line Giacomini, McQ, drafted players late, and in the middle rounds, and signed players off of practice squads and in strange places. You claim they haven't paid attention to the line, I question that assessment. They haven't invested huge amounts of money, which isn't the same thing
s ignoring it.

If you want them to dump huge money into the line, than just say that, and be done with it. The attention is there, though the results haven't been huge. Many, if not MOST teams handle it similarly...

And as of yet, you still haven't ventured a name they SHOULD have either drafted or signed. The list you submitted reaffirms that there simply hasn't been a ton of talent, and certainly not the "upgrade" you are wanting. You cannot have it both ways, you either pay through the nose, or you draft and fill in with the types of players, they have been filling in with.

[RiverDog]

And yet you both continue to refuse to put a NAME on your comments, until that happens, not sure what complaint you can have. I have said REPEATEDLY that I also want the line upgraded, not sure why the observation that you are complaining without providing an iota of actual information, that could improve the situation, is so hard to grasp. The FO makes the decisions, you complain without adding anything other than that complaint and want cudo's for complaining? Anyone can complain, or claim to know better, but until some actual, factual, information is provided, it is complaining, and nothing more.

I haven't seen a single cost effective upgrade either in the draft that was available to this FO, OR a cost effective upgrade in free agency that has been available at the time that was affordable without sacrificing the players they just used to win a SB, unlike others I can admit a mistake in that regard, so enlighten me, WHO was available, and WHO would have been removed, what kind of cash are we talking about, and WHO is aloud to leave to accomplish it.

I gave you 3 names of players that haven't drawn any interest whatsoever that were starting quality OL's... the two Tampa Bay cut loose and Jonathan Martin. Probably not permanent solutions but you'd think they'd at least draw some interest as a stop gap replacement.

Plus as I've been saying, it's the cumulative effect of ignoring the OL for he past two years that's causing our current problems.

[monkey]

And yet you both continue to refuse to put a NAME on your comments, until that happens, not sure what complaint you can have. I have said REPEATEDLY that I also want the line upgraded, not sure why the observation that you are complaining without providing an iota of actual information, that could improve the situation, is so hard to grasp. The FO makes the decisions, you complain without adding anything other than that complaint and want cudo's for complaining? Anyone can complain, or claim to know better, but until some actual, factual, information is provided, it is complaining, and nothing more.

I haven't seen a single cost effective upgrade either in the draft that was available to this FO, OR a cost effective upgrade in free agency that has been available at the time that was affordable without sacrificing the players they just used to win a SB, unlike others I can admit a mistake in that regard, so enlighten me, WHO was available, and WHO would have been removed, what kind of cash are we talking about, and WHO is aloud to leave to accomplish it.

I gave you 3 names of players that haven't drawn any interest whatsoever that were starting quality OL's... the two Tampa Bay cut loose and Jonathan Martin. Probably not permanent solutions but you'd think they'd at least draw some interest as a stop gap replacement.

Plus as I've been saying, it's the cumulative effect of ignoring the OL for he past two years that's causing our current problems.

Sorry Riv, but I gotta nail you on this.
You pointed out three names of players who SUCK, and are NOT upgrades by any stretch over the backups we have, and you want kudos? You said yourself they wouldn't be long term solutions...they wouldn't be short term ones either. They SUCK! I'd already have fired you if you're my GM bringing me those crap names.
Then, after he called you out for complaining, you repeated the complaint. (See that's what they call irony, it's hilarious because after he said all you were doing is complaining you complained again...get it?).

Fact is, all you guys have done is whine about the line, without providing one single useful solution. All you've done is point out the "problem" as you see it, and point out why you think it got to this point, you are literally Captain Hindsight. Hooray for you!
In spite of the fact that we have effectively shown that the line has NOT been ignored, you continue to say it has. Well gee, ignoring the facts and yelling the same thing over and over works for three year old children so...I guess that works...sort of?

As has been REPEATEDLY pointed out, we're not even into the second stage of free agency yet, the big rush for the big names isn't even quite over yet.
You guys should probably give it a rest already, maybe wait until there is actually a problem instead of a potential one months down the road, before yelling the sky is falling?

[monkey]

The list of available free agents allows some time to work out prospects, look over a lot of tape, and take some time to make some moves. While I am not as confident about the ability to find offensive linemen, as they seem to be to find defensive pliers, I have some hope for Bowie, Bailey, and even Sweezy , who is a good athlete. Draft picks will not be ready to start, so some of our depth needs to step up. Our O line will be young, but, I think it will be better.

A question I have is about Unger. His play seemed to fall off, and I wonder is he was injured and hiding it. My thought is that he seemed to favor his left side some, and wonder if he had some injury to his left rib area. Any thoughts?

I'm not sure that a rookie couldn't start actually...a good one could and probably should be expected to actually. It's not like they'd be taking the spot of anyone good...nor is it like there's never been a team to win big starting a rookie on the line.

Unger wasn't hiding the fact he was hurt last year, he was hurt last year, admitted he was, but he played through it. I'd expect him to return to pro bowl form next year.

[NorthHawk]

So you are happy protecting the player who will be the highest paid player and maybe the most important player on the Offense (and maybe the entire team) with scrubs, castoffs and also rans?
I'm not. I want quality players who can play now and properly protect him as well as dominate up front.

A 6th round pick, 2 7th round picks, and FA pickups who were low picks or undrafted themselves in the last 2 years isn't exactly supporting the Offense.
I would submit it is close to neglect.
Carpenter has real trouble pass protecting - Sweezy the same. When Okung went out, we replaced him with McQuistan. The guy who is so highly thought of he isn't yet signed by any team.
We couldn't stop anyone off the edge when Okung and Breno were out and some of the Defensive players had career days against us.
So we don't look at any of the OL FAs and instead concentrate on DL.

Again, it's not that we haven't signed anyone, rather it's that we haven't even tried. That's my real concern - not trying to upgrade.
For a regime that touts competition at every position on every level, it doesn't make sense to not create a competitive atmosphere along what is the most important group of the Offense.
These things eventually come back to bite teams. It's our Achilles heal. Too bad when we have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

[HumanCockroach]

And yet you both continue to refuse to put a NAME on your comments, until that happens, not sure what complaint you can have. I have said REPEATEDLY that I also want the line upgraded, not sure why the observation that you are complaining without providing an iota of actual information, that could improve the situation, is so hard to grasp. The FO makes the decisions, you complain without adding anything other than that complaint and want cudo's for complaining? Anyone can complain, or claim to know better, but until some actual, factual, information is provided, it is complaining, and nothing more.

I haven't seen a single cost effective upgrade either in the draft that was available to this FO, OR a cost effective upgrade in free agency that has been available at the time that was affordable without sacrificing the players they just used to win a SB, unlike others I can admit a mistake in that regard, so enlighten me, WHO was available, and WHO would have been removed, what kind of cash are we talking about, and WHO is aloud to leave to accomplish it.

I gave you 3 names of players that haven't drawn any interest whatsoever that were starting quality OL's... the two Tampa Bay cut loose and Jonathan Martin. Probably not permanent solutions but you'd think they'd at least draw some interest as a stop gap replacement.

Plus as I've been saying, it's the cumulative effect of ignoring the OL for he past two years that's causing our current problems.

You know Seattle did not make an offer for Martin how exactly? You work in the front office or something? No? Then there is simply NO way you could possibly state that as some sort of fact. As for the two offensive lineman from Tampa, I thought the idea was improve the line, so that eliminates one, Penn is an interesting idea, and I actually mentioned him as well, however he comes with baggage ( weight problems, severe drop in play) you can claim they should be looking at them, but if you are going to claim they should be UPGRADING their line, not just maintaining the quality of play they already had last season, you're reaching.

Penn and the other schlubs are still available, and for all you or I know they will end up in Seattle. That said, if or when the flame out, we'll simply be right back here in the same conversation, with you disregarding the pick ups, draft picks and attention paid to this offensive line

[HumanCockroach]

So you are happy protecting the player who will be the highest paid player and maybe the most important player on the Offense (and maybe the entire team) with scrubs, castoffs and also rans?
I'm not. I want quality players who can play now and properly protect him as well as dominate up front.

A 6th round pick, 2 7th round picks, and FA pickups who were low picks or undrafted themselves in the last 2 years isn't exactly supporting the Offense.
I would submit it is close to neglect.
Carpenter has real trouble pass protecting - Sweezy the same. When Okung went out, we replaced him with McQuistan. The guy who is so highly thought of he isn't yet signed by any team.
We couldn't stop anyone off the edge when Okung and Breno were out and some of the Defensive players had career days against us.
So we don't look at any of the OL FAs and instead concentrate on DL.

Again, it's not that we haven't signed anyone, rather it's that we haven't even tried. That's my real concern - not trying to upgrade.
For a regime that touts competition at every position on every level, it doesn't make sense to not create a competitive atmosphere along what is the most important group of the Offense.
These things eventually come back to bite teams. It's our Achilles heal. Too bad when we have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

Carpenter and Sweezy have trouble in pass blocking? Welcome to guards, please at the very least stop acting like every guard on every team doesn't have issues with it, they do, and there certainly isn't this "upgrade" you continue to talk about available. You have issue with Seattles backup being starting caliber at LT? Are you serious? Teams don't have quality LT backups, they cost to damn much. KC had one, how long did they hold onto him? 1 year, and only because the couldn't find a trade partner. Please, back up starting caliber tackles DON'T exist in the NFL. Good lord.

Before last season Seattle came in with high draft picks on the line ( that's 3 out of 5) a signed STARTING RT whether you guys liked him or not, Giacomini IS a starting RT in the NFL ( one who got signed right away, by the way, and to a nice hefty contract) and a project RG, with versatility across the board ( McQ, Bowie, Bailey, Jean Pierre ALL play multiple positions) it wasn't the best line in the league, but it certainly wasn't bad, or close to bad, or in the realm of bad, in fact it was certainly top 10 in the league. Every player on that top ten line, was signed or drafted by the FO you are claiming is ignoring it. HALF their first round picks have gone to the O- Line. Meanwhile, ZERO have gone to receiver, Cb, LB,Rb, SS,DT,QB. The attention has been given, hell you could say the PRIORITY has been. Because picks don't pan out does NOT mean attention hasn't been paid.

[RiverDog]

Sorry Riv, but I gotta nail you on this.
You pointed out three names of players who SUCK, and are NOT upgrades by any stretch over the backups we have, and you want kudos? You said yourself they wouldn't be long term solutions...they wouldn't be short term ones either. They SUCK! I'd already have fired you if you're my GM bringing me those crap names.
Then, after he called you out for complaining, you repeated the complaint. (See that's what they call irony, it's hilarious because after he said all you were doing is complaining you complained again...get it?).

Fact is, all you guys have done is whine about the line, without providing one single useful solution. All you've done is point out the "problem" as you see it, and point out why you think it got to this point, you are literally Captain Hindsight. Hooray for you!
In spite of the fact that we have effectively shown that the line has NOT been ignored, you continue to say it has. Well gee, ignoring the facts and yelling the same thing over and over works for three year old children so...I guess that works...sort of?

As has been REPEATEDLY pointed out, we're not even into the second stage of free agency yet, the big rush for the big names isn't even quite over yet.
You guys should probably give it a rest already, maybe wait until there is actually a problem instead of a potential one months down the road, before yelling the sky is falling?

OK, so you don't like the 3 names I threw out. They were just examples and an answer to HC's challenge, who said I didn't give any names. I didn't say they were long term answers. I felt they were at least good enough for a look-see given the predicament we now find ourselves in, but we haven't even so much as raised an eyebrow.

And I have offered a solution: Don't waste a #1 and a #3 pick and tons of money for a wide receiver with an attitude and injury history. Don't waste your #15 overall on a pass rushing specialist. And I'm not cherry picking draft choices and trades because they look bad in hindsight. Those were two that I was highly critical of when we made them.

You can't tell me that in the past two years in the draft and FA that there hasn't been a single lineman that would represent an upgrade over Breno, McQ, and Sweezy that could have been had if we had been armed with a #15 overall, a #26 overall, and a 3rd round pick plus the boat load of money we spent on Harvin.

[NorthHawk]

So you are happy protecting the player who will be the highest paid player and maybe the most important player on the Offense (and maybe the entire team) with scrubs, castoffs and also rans?
I'm not. I want quality players who can play now and properly protect him as well as dominate up front.

A 6th round pick, 2 7th round picks, and FA pickups who were low picks or undrafted themselves in the last 2 years isn't exactly supporting the Offense.
I would submit it is close to neglect.
Carpenter has real trouble pass protecting - Sweezy the same. When Okung went out, we replaced him with McQuistan. The guy who is so highly thought of he isn't yet signed by any team.
We couldn't stop anyone off the edge when Okung and Breno were out and some of the Defensive players had career days against us.
So we don't look at any of the OL FAs and instead concentrate on DL.

Again, it's not that we haven't signed anyone, rather it's that we haven't even tried. That's my real concern - not trying to upgrade.
For a regime that touts competition at every position on every level, it doesn't make sense to not create a competitive atmosphere along what is the most important group of the Offense.
These things eventually come back to bite teams. It's our Achilles heal. Too bad when we have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

Carpenter and Sweezy have trouble in pass blocking? Welcome to guards, please at the very least stop acting like every guard on every team doesn't have issues with it, they do, and there certainly isn't this "upgrade" you continue to talk about available. You have issue with Seattles backup being starting caliber at LT? Are you serious? Teams don't have quality LT backups, they cost to damn much. KC had one, how long did they hold onto him? 1 year, and only because the couldn't find a trade partner. Please, back up starting caliber tackles DON'T exist in the NFL. Good lord.

Before last season Seattle came in with high draft picks on the line ( that's 3 out of 5) a signed STARTING RT whether you guys liked him or not, Giacomini IS a starting RT in the NFL ( one who got signed right away, by the way, and to a nice hefty contract) and a project RG, with versatility across the board ( McQ, Bowie, Bailey, Jean Pierre ALL play multiple positions) it wasn't the best line in the league, but it certainly wasn't bad, or close to bad, or in the realm of bad, in fact it was certainly top 10 in the league. Every player on that top ten line, was signed or drafted by the FO you are claiming is ignoring it. HALF their first round picks have gone to the O- Line. Meanwhile, ZERO have gone to receiver, Cb, LB,Rb, SS,DT,QB. The attention has been given, hell you could say the PRIORITY has been. Because picks don't pan out does NOT mean attention hasn't been paid.

So you like our OL which is at best middle of the road protecting Wilson and shouldn't be upgraded.
That's fine. I'm not happy with it, and I hope I don't have to say I told you so when Wilson gets hurt for part of the year.
He got beat up a lot last year and you think that's OK. I don't.
When I have a valuable asset, I like to protect it, I don't ignore security - or go half assed on it.
I think when I have something of value, security should be a high priority, so I don't get my protection from the dollar store because it's good enough all the while concentrating on upgrading my lawn which already looks like a putting green.
I guess our priorities are different.
So be it.

[HumanCockroach]

So you are happy protecting the player who will be the highest paid player and maybe the most important player on the Offense (and maybe the entire team) with scrubs, castoffs and also rans?
I'm not. I want quality players who can play now and properly protect him as well as dominate up front.

A 6th round pick, 2 7th round picks, and FA pickups who were low picks or undrafted themselves in the last 2 years isn't exactly supporting the Offense.
I would submit it is close to neglect.
Carpenter has real trouble pass protecting - Sweezy the same. When Okung went out, we replaced him with McQuistan. The guy who is so highly thought of he isn't yet signed by any team.
We couldn't stop anyone off the edge when Okung and Breno were out and some of the Defensive players had career days against us.
So we don't look at any of the OL FAs and instead concentrate on DL.

Again, it's not that we haven't signed anyone, rather it's that we haven't even tried. That's my real concern - not trying to upgrade.
For a regime that touts competition at every position on every level, it doesn't make sense to not create a competitive atmosphere along what is the most important group of the Offense.
These things eventually come back to bite teams. It's our Achilles heal. Too bad when we have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

Carpenter and Sweezy have trouble in pass blocking? Welcome to guards, please at the very least stop acting like every guard on every team doesn't have issues with it, they do, and there certainly isn't this "upgrade" you continue to talk about available. You have issue with Seattles backup being starting caliber at LT? Are you serious? Teams don't have quality LT backups, they cost to damn much. KC had one, how long did they hold onto him? 1 year, and only because the couldn't find a trade partner. Please, back up starting caliber tackles DON'T exist in the NFL. Good lord.

Before last season Seattle came in with high draft picks on the line ( that's 3 out of 5) a signed STARTING RT whether you guys liked him or not, Giacomini IS a starting RT in the NFL ( one who got signed right away, by the way, and to a nice hefty contract) and a project RG, with versatility across the board ( McQ, Bowie, Bailey, Jean Pierre ALL play multiple positions) it wasn't the best line in the league, but it certainly wasn't bad, or close to bad, or in the realm of bad, in fact it was certainly top 10 in the league. Every player on that top ten line, was signed or drafted by the FO you are claiming is ignoring it. HALF their first round picks have gone to the O- Line. Meanwhile, ZERO have gone to receiver, Cb, LB,Rb, SS,DT,QB. The attention has been given, hell you could say the PRIORITY has been. Because picks don't pan out does NOT mean attention hasn't been paid.

So you like our OL which is at best middle of the road protecting Wilson and shouldn't be upgraded.
That's fine. I'm not happy with it, and I hope I don't have to say I told you so when Wilson gets hurt for part of the year.
He got beat up a lot last year and you think that's OK. I don't.
When I have a valuable asset, I like to protect it, I don't ignore security - or go half assed on it.
I think when I have something of value, security should be a high priority, so I don't get my protection from the dollar store because it's good enough all the while concentrating on upgrading my lawn which already looks like a putting green.
I guess our priorities are different.
So be it.

Re read my posts. There is a difference between being "happy" with it, and being realistic about the resources that continue to be invested in it. Huge difference. You can focus on "upgrading" your lawn, however should the seed, and fertilizer be BELOW the quality you used originally, I doubt it helps "upgrade" it. And to date you have YET to provide an upgrade that is available. I can give you a list of turf builder, does that mean they ALL are upgrades over what you use? Of COURSE not. And that is where we are.3/5 of that line is high draft picks. There isn't a SINGLE lineman on your list I would grade as a clear upgrade, that hasn't already been given obscene money. NONE. You do NOT pay a RT 10 million a year, you do NOT give a guard 8 million a year, unless of course you want Wilson safer, and no one else on the team. I prefer the SB experience myself, and would like to retain the talent currently on the roster ( Which Wilson happens to be part of) then have a slightly above average RT, OR a slightly above average Guard....

[Eaglehawk]

So you are happy protecting the player who will be the highest paid player and maybe the most important player on the Offense (and maybe the entire team) with scrubs, castoffs and also rans?
I'm not. I want quality players who can play now and properly protect him as well as dominate up front.

A 6th round pick, 2 7th round picks, and FA pickups who were low picks or undrafted themselves in the last 2 years isn't exactly supporting the Offense.
I would submit it is close to neglect.
Carpenter has real trouble pass protecting - Sweezy the same. When Okung went out, we replaced him with McQuistan. The guy who is so highly thought of he isn't yet signed by any team.
We couldn't stop anyone off the edge when Okung and Breno were out and some of the Defensive players had career days against us.
So we don't look at any of the OL FAs and instead concentrate on DL.

Again, it's not that we haven't signed anyone, rather it's that we haven't even tried. That's my real concern - not trying to upgrade.
For a regime that touts competition at every position on every level, it doesn't make sense to not create a competitive atmosphere along what is the most important group of the Offense.
These things eventually come back to bite teams. It's our Achilles heal. Too bad when we have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

Carpenter and Sweezy have trouble in pass blocking? Welcome to guards, please at the very least stop acting like every guard on every team doesn't have issues with it, they do, and there certainly isn't this "upgrade" you continue to talk about available. You have issue with Seattles backup being starting caliber at LT? Are you serious? Teams don't have quality LT backups, they cost to damn much. KC had one, how long did they hold onto him? 1 year, and only because the couldn't find a trade partner. Please, back up starting caliber tackles DON'T exist in the NFL. Good lord.

Before last season Seattle came in with high draft picks on the line ( that's 3 out of 5) a signed STARTING RT whether you guys liked him or not, Giacomini IS a starting RT in the NFL ( one who got signed right away, by the way, and to a nice hefty contract) and a project RG, with versatility across the board ( McQ, Bowie, Bailey, Jean Pierre ALL play multiple positions) it wasn't the best line in the league, but it certainly wasn't bad, or close to bad, or in the realm of bad, in fact it was certainly top 10 in the league. Every player on that top ten line, was signed or drafted by the FO you are claiming is ignoring it. HALF their first round picks have gone to the O- Line. Meanwhile, ZERO have gone to receiver, Cb, LB,Rb, SS,DT,QB. The attention has been given, hell you could say the PRIORITY has been. Because picks don't pan out does NOT mean attention hasn't been paid.

So you like our OL which is at best middle of the road protecting Wilson and shouldn't be upgraded.
That's fine. I'm not happy with it, and I hope I don't have to say I told you so when Wilson gets hurt for part of the year.
He got beat up a lot last year and you think that's OK. I don't.
When I have a valuable asset, I like to protect it, I don't ignore security - or go half assed on it.
I think when I have something of value, security should be a high priority, so I don't get my protection from the dollar store because it's good enough all the while concentrating on upgrading my lawn which already looks like a putting green.
I guess our priorities are different.
So be it.

I understand HC, but NH and Anthony's point that they would be concerned to see Wilson running for his life the way he did during our last season at times would be very dangerous for our SB run. I don't like it a bit. Maybe it is a talent problem as HC stated.

If RW went down because of one play with a mediocre O line, our SB chances are DONE, its OVA. For that reason, we need to make sure that our o line next season is as stout as possible. We have fixed the D and have some key core players there, its time for us to have core players with our o line in addition to Okung and our rotating centers. Maybe for the money we can't do that. I understand. But trust me, there will be hell to pay if we don't protect RW this season, I guarantee you the defenses will be going after him like no tomorrow. Our o line needs to be stout next season no doubt about it.

[HumanCockroach]

I hope they do, as Wilson is the best in the NFL against the blitz. Seattles problems weren't with blitzes, it was with teams who's front four could get home without blitzing.

Personally I am not as convinced as many that bowie and bailey aren't upgrades over Giacomini at RT, and I am definitely not convinced a RT or Guard can't be drafted. Seems to me there are so FEW holes, that people are hyper focussed on an area that isn't as much of a hole as many want to paint it to be. Of COURSE I want upgrades, and that goes for EVERY position, but wanting, and being able to do it, aren't the same thing.

[NorthHawk]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

[Anthony]

So you are happy protecting the player who will be the highest paid player and maybe the most important player on the Offense (and maybe the entire team) with scrubs, castoffs and also rans?
I'm not. I want quality players who can play now and properly protect him as well as dominate up front.

A 6th round pick, 2 7th round picks, and FA pickups who were low picks or undrafted themselves in the last 2 years isn't exactly supporting the Offense.
I would submit it is close to neglect.
Carpenter has real trouble pass protecting - Sweezy the same. When Okung went out, we replaced him with McQuistan. The guy who is so highly thought of he isn't yet signed by any team.
We couldn't stop anyone off the edge when Okung and Breno were out and some of the Defensive players had career days against us.
So we don't look at any of the OL FAs and instead concentrate on DL.

Again, it's not that we haven't signed anyone, rather it's that we haven't even tried. That's my real concern - not trying to upgrade.
For a regime that touts competition at every position on every level, it doesn't make sense to not create a competitive atmosphere along what is the most important group of the Offense.
These things eventually come back to bite teams. It's our Achilles heal. Too bad when we have a chance to win multiple Super Bowls.

Carpenter and Sweezy have trouble in pass blocking? Welcome to guards, please at the very least stop acting like every guard on every team doesn't have issues with it, they do, and there certainly isn't this "upgrade" you continue to talk about available. You have issue with Seattles backup being starting caliber at LT? Are you serious? Teams don't have quality LT backups, they cost to damn much. KC had one, how long did they hold onto him? 1 year, and only because the couldn't find a trade partner. Please, back up starting caliber tackles DON'T exist in the NFL. Good lord.

Before last season Seattle came in with high draft picks on the line ( that's 3 out of 5) a signed STARTING RT whether you guys liked him or not, Giacomini IS a starting RT in the NFL ( one who got signed right away, by the way, and to a nice hefty contract) and a project RG, with versatility across the board ( McQ, Bowie, Bailey, Jean Pierre ALL play multiple positions) it wasn't the best line in the league, but it certainly wasn't bad, or close to bad, or in the realm of bad, in fact it was certainly top 10 in the league. Every player on that top ten line, was signed or drafted by the FO you are claiming is ignoring it. HALF their first round picks have gone to the O- Line. Meanwhile, ZERO have gone to receiver, Cb, LB,Rb, SS,DT,QB. The attention has been given, hell you could say the PRIORITY has been. Because picks don't pan out does NOT mean attention hasn't been paid.

So you like our OL which is at best middle of the road protecting Wilson and shouldn't be upgraded.
That's fine. I'm not happy with it, and I hope I don't have to say I told you so when Wilson gets hurt for part of the year.
He got beat up a lot last year and you think that's OK. I don't.
When I have a valuable asset, I like to protect it, I don't ignore security - or go half assed on it.
I think when I have something of value, security should be a high priority, so I don't get my protection from the dollar store because it's good enough all the while concentrating on upgrading my lawn which already looks like a putting green.
I guess our priorities are different.
So be it.

Actually they were the worst pass blocking o-line in the NFL last year. NOT middle of the road the worst

[HumanCockroach]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

That sounds like, and maybe I am wrong, that your process is throw sh*t at the wall and see if it sticks. Sorry, I simply do not adhere to the belief that that is an effective way to upgrade an offensive line in the NFL. We are talking about upgrades right? I mean that seems to me to be the crux of what the complaint is, and yet people continue to throw out band aid solutions, and INFERIOR lineman as the answer. Seems very, very counter productive and in no way I see improves the situation.

It IS a concern, but for whatever reason, no one seems to be able to see that it IS a concern, for ALL teams, not just Seattle, which would be why you don't see this front office panicking to sign guys just to sign them. Dumping resources for the sake of it. Plenty of those guys ( and actually MORE) will be available after the draft, and won't be looking for huge contracts. I personally LIKE that they aren't willing to spend more than a player worth simply to appease us fans, that is what the Browns do, or Oakland, Miami, the Jets. It isn't what long term successful franchises do.

[HumanCockroach]

Anthony, how many games did the starters miss? If your complaint is starters behind the starters, I agree, but I know you are simply looking at numbers of sacks and pressures here. Factor in the quality of pass rushes faced, coupled with Wilsons scrambling and holding onto the football, and you have increased sacks. Unfortunate side effect of those circumstances, but a real side effect none the less.

Again, I WANT it improved, but it seems I am one of the few that understands wanting something does not equate to getting it.

[NorthHawk]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

That sounds like, and maybe I am wrong, that your process is throw sh*t at the wall and see if it sticks. Sorry, I simply do not adhere to the belief that that is an effective way to upgrade an offensive line in the NFL. We are talking about upgrades right? I mean that seems to me to be the crux of what the complaint is, and yet people continue to throw out band aid solutions, and INFERIOR lineman as the answer. Seems very, very counter productive and in no way I see improves the situation.

It IS a concern, but for whatever reason, no one seems to be able to see that it IS a concern, for ALL teams, not just Seattle, which would be why you don't see this front office panicking to sign guys just to sign them. Dumping resources for the sake of it. Plenty of those guys ( and actually MORE) will be available after the draft, and won't be looking for huge contracts. I personally LIKE that they aren't willing to spend more than a player worth simply to appease us fans, that is what the Browns do, or Oakland, Miami, the Jets. It isn't what long term successful franchises do.

These 2 guys are examples of starters on other teams.
There are others on that list that were also starters last year.
Are you suggesting that none are as good as our current backups or starters on a middle of the road OL who just lost their starting RT?

You're worried about the money that's being spent. Fair enough - it's a valid concern.
Are you also worried that they are considering Allen at what 5 or more million (he has apparently asked for 10/year)? Melton will want a good figure as will Finlay if they sign either of them, too. Are they worth more than protecting your franchise QB and solidifying your run game as Marshawn begins to lose a step?

[RiverDog]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

That's what's bothering me. It's what appears to be to be an indifferent attitude towards recognizing the problems we have on the OL.

Maybe there's someone out there that they think we can get in the draft that can provide us with some immediate help. Maybe we plan on trading up, or maybe they have something in the works. Or maybe still they see something in Bowie and Bailey that gives them comfort as the long term answers to our needs. Maybe they think that Okung will quit getting snake bit and play a full season.

None of us knows what's going through the minds of our brain trust. But based on past experience, I don't have nearly as high of a degree of trust in them that they know what's best for our offensive line as I trust their judgment on the defensive side, hence my discomfort.

[monkey]

I personally LIKE that they aren't willing to spend more than a player worth simply to appease us fans, that is what the Browns do, or Oakland, Miami, the Jets. It isn't what long term successful franchises do.

The Cowboys have shown us all what not to do the other way. They don't necessarily sign up every big name free agent, but they actually have spent too much signing their own guys back, and this off season now it finally caught up to them. That's what happens when fan pressure (and owner stupidity) cause them to over value their OWN talent for whatever reason.
The Seahawks have let some players that fans really like, like Tate, Clem and Big Red walk rather than re-sign them or rework their deals. That takes disciplined spending, and is something the Seahawks are proving they have.
They seem to be following the Patriots model in that regard, THANKFULLY! The Pats have shown the league the way to keep a team at or near the top for a decade, fortunately our front office seems to have figured that out, and is doing the same thing.

Point is, you gotta be SMART and you gotta target only the players who can really help you, rather than guys who are just patch-a-hole type players.
Panicking and signing guys who really aren't that good, just to fill perceived needs, is a BAD plan, worse than doing nothing at all, most of the time.
I'd rather see us roll with what wee have in Bowie and Bailey next year, than sign guys who aren't really any better at a higher price, just to show us fans they are doing something!
I'd rather go with what we have, than see the front office reach for linemen in the draft as well.
Those types of decisions almost invariably turn out horrible.

There are so many ways to screw it up, and only a few way to approach free agency/draft, that really works for the long haul, and ALL of them involve disciplined spending and drafting and NOT doing things to appease the fans or the media.

[NorthHawk]

I personally LIKE that they aren't willing to spend more than a player worth simply to appease us fans, that is what the Browns do, or Oakland, Miami, the Jets. It isn't what long term successful franchises do.

The Cowboys have shown us all what not to do the other way. They don't necessarily sign up every big name free agent, but they actually have spent too much signing their own guys back, and this off season now it finally caught up to them. That's what happens when fan pressure (and owner stupidity) cause them to over value their OWN talent for whatever reason.
The Seahawks have let some players that fans really like, like Tate, Clem and Big Red walk rather than re-sign them or rework their deals. That takes disciplined spending, and is something the Seahawks are proving they have.
They seem to be following the Patriots model in that regard, THANKFULLY! The Pats have shown the league the way to keep a team at or near the top for a decade, fortunately our front office seems to have figured that out, and is doing the same thing.

Point is, you gotta be SMART and you gotta target only the players who can really help you, rather than guys who are just patch-a-hole type players.
Panicking and signing guys who really aren't that good, just to fill perceived needs, is a BAD plan, worse than doing nothing at all, most of the time.
I'd rather see us roll with what wee have in Bowie and Bailey next year, than sign guys who aren't really any better at a higher price, just to show us fans they are doing something!
I'd rather go with what we have, than see the front office reach for linemen in the draft as well.
Those types of decisions almost invariably turn out horrible.

There are so many ways to screw it up, and only a few way to approach free agency/draft, that really works for the long haul, and ALL of them involve disciplined spending and drafting and NOT doing things to appease the fans or the media.

Agreed, but you can't be afraid to spend money on the OL if you are seriously considering spending 5-10 million on Jared Allen on an already stellar DL.
And there were some real good OL that went for big money - the same we would be spending on Allen should we sign him, but there were also some solid OL that went for reasonable amounts, too.
It seems the philosophy is go cheap on the OL, stack the DL/Defense with talent, and hope the Franchise QB can escape by his own wits. It's a very dangerous gamble with massive downside potential.

[monkey]

It seems the philosophy is go cheap on the OL, stack the DL/Defense with talent, and hope the Franchise QB can escape by his own wits. It's a very dangerous gamble with massive downside potential.

Well, that's how you see it, I don't see it that way at all.
Clearly, at this point, you are choosing to ignore all the evidence that has been provided to you that is contrary to your belief.
It's been debated to death now, and if you want to insist that the front office is too stupid to figure it out, that's your problem, but the facts are that they HAVE NOT just ignored the line.
This is proven just by looking the draft trends since Pete has arrived. The team has definitely shown a willingness to draft O-Linemen, in any round.
Believe what you will, but I'm done trying to tell you otherwise, it's pointless.

[HumanCockroach]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

That's what's bothering me. It's what appears to be to be an indifferent attitude towards recognizing the problems we have on the OL.

Maybe there's someone out there that they think we can get in the draft that can provide us with some immediate help. Maybe we plan on trading up, or maybe they have something in the works. Or maybe still they see something in Bowie and Bailey that gives them comfort as the long term answers to our needs. Maybe they think that Okung will quit getting snake bit and play a full season.

None of us knows what's going through the minds of our brain trust. But based on past experience, I don't have nearly as high of a degree of trust in them that they know what's best for our offensive line as I trust their judgment on the defensive side, hence my discomfort.

As far as Allen and Melton go, I haven't been quiet on the subject there either. You don't pay situational pass rushers ( which is what Allen would be on this team) more than 5 million a year, and if Melton isn't willing to give a multi year deal at a reasonable rate, than he can get on down the road as well. With all the focus here on this thread about how the pay so much attention to the D line, it is odd to me, that people don't see, or aren't paying attention to how they have handled it. They have handled the D line the SAME way they are handling the O-line ( well with less picks dedicated to it). Do people so quickly forget how much money is invested there or what? No one on that D line is making what an Okung is, and very few are making what Unger is, and not many made what Giacomini was making. They brought guys in on short term "prove it " deals, and then CHOSE who they wanted to pay, not force fed it. They could have signed numerous big name free ags and didn't. They remained patient, waited for the best deal, retained who the wanted, drafted and developed their own, traded or signed cast offs........ Why you guys think the O-line is going to have a different approach, based on worry, simply doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

They ARE going to be patient, they are NOT going to overpay ( and that goes for Allen, Melton, or whatever other name you want to bring up) and they ARE going to draft and develop their OWN talent.

[HumanCockroach]

I personally LIKE that they aren't willing to spend more than a player worth simply to appease us fans, that is what the Browns do, or Oakland, Miami, the Jets. It isn't what long term successful franchises do.

The Cowboys have shown us all what not to do the other way. They don't necessarily sign up every big name free agent, but they actually have spent too much signing their own guys back, and this off season now it finally caught up to them. That's what happens when fan pressure (and owner stupidity) cause them to over value their OWN talent for whatever reason.
The Seahawks have let some players that fans really like, like Tate, Clem and Big Red walk rather than re-sign them or rework their deals. That takes disciplined spending, and is something the Seahawks are proving they have.
They seem to be following the Patriots model in that regard, THANKFULLY! The Pats have shown the league the way to keep a team at or near the top for a decade, fortunately our front office seems to have figured that out, and is doing the same thing.

Point is, you gotta be SMART and you gotta target only the players who can really help you, rather than guys who are just patch-a-hole type players.
Panicking and signing guys who really aren't that good, just to fill perceived needs, is a BAD plan, worse than doing nothing at all, most of the time.
I'd rather see us roll with what wee have in Bowie and Bailey next year, than sign guys who aren't really any better at a higher price, just to show us fans they are doing something!
I'd rather go with what we have, than see the front office reach for linemen in the draft as well.
Those types of decisions almost invariably turn out horrible.

There are so many ways to screw it up, and only a few way to approach free agency/draft, that really works for the long haul, and ALL of them involve disciplined spending and drafting and NOT doing things to appease the fans or the media.

Agreed, but you can't be afraid to spend money on the OL if you are seriously considering spending 5-10 million on Jared Allen on an already stellar DL.
And there were some real good OL that went for big money - the same we would be spending on Allen should we sign him, but there were also some solid OL that went for reasonable amounts, too.
It seems the philosophy is go cheap on the OL, stack the DL/Defense with talent, and hope the Franchise QB can escape by his own wits. It's a very dangerous gamble with massive downside potential.

But they weren't PAYING for that stellar defensive line any more than they spent on the offensive line, and the results seemed to be pretty damn good to me

[NorthHawk]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

That's what's bothering me. It's what appears to be to be an indifferent attitude towards recognizing the problems we have on the OL.

Maybe there's someone out there that they think we can get in the draft that can provide us with some immediate help. Maybe we plan on trading up, or maybe they have something in the works. Or maybe still they see something in Bowie and Bailey that gives them comfort as the long term answers to our needs. Maybe they think that Okung will quit getting snake bit and play a full season.

None of us knows what's going through the minds of our brain trust. But based on past experience, I don't have nearly as high of a degree of trust in them that they know what's best for our offensive line as I trust their judgment on the defensive side, hence my discomfort.

As far as Allen and Melton go, I haven't been quiet on the subject there either. You don't pay situational pass rushers ( which is what Allen would be on this team) more than 5 million a year, and if Melton isn't willing to give a multi year deal at a reasonable rate, than he can get on down the road as well. With all the focus here on this thread about how the pay so much attention to the D line, it is odd to me, that people don't see, or aren't paying attention to how they have handled it. They have handled the D line the SAME way they are handling the O-line ( well with less picks dedicated to it). Do people so quickly forget how much money is invested there or what? No one on that D line is making what an Okung is, and very few are making what Unger is, and not many made what Giacomini was making. They brought guys in on short term "prove it " deals, and then CHOSE who they wanted to pay, not force fed it. They could have signed numerous big name free ags and didn't. They remained patient, waited for the best deal, retained who the wanted, drafted and developed their own, traded or signed cast offs........ Why you guys think the O-line is going to have a different approach, based on worry, simply doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

They ARE going to be patient, they are NOT going to overpay ( and that goes for Allen, Melton, or whatever other name you want to bring up) and they ARE going to draft and develop their OWN talent.

You can't compare Okung's and Ungers salaries because Okung was the last CBA and Unger signed his 2nd contract after becoming the starting C. If we wanted to keep Unger, we had to pay him - that's keeping your own players. On Defense, we have seen a whole bunch of signings and players brought in to visit over the last 2 years. We have seen almost nobody on the OL which is the worst part of this team by a large margin and has been suspect for a few years.

Even if you don't like what they might offer Allen, the fact is they have shown interest in both he and Melton. Last year they signed Avril at 2 years 13 million. This year they signed Bennett to 4 years 28.5 million. Both good deals and the Defensive line is already stacked, but they are still entertaining adding more and in comparison the OL is weakened with the loss of Breno, yet they haven't even make an effort to upgrade it. I would rather see a veteran Guard fill a need beside a rookie Tackle than a player with 5 or 6 games under his belt and a rookie at RT. That veteran savvy flattens the learning curve a lot and if he can last 2 or 3 years until he's supplanted by a draft pick or Bailey/Bowie then we are far ahead. Instead we will probably see a very young right side and maybe left side, too when Okung is injured.

This isn't a worry, it's a need that is getting worse every year.

[Anthony]

Anthony, how many games did the starters miss? If your complaint is starters behind the starters, I agree, but I know you are simply looking at numbers of sacks and pressures here. Factor in the quality of pass rushes faced, coupled with Wilsons scrambling and holding onto the football, and you have increased sacks. Unfortunate side effect of those circumstances, but a real side effect none the less.

Again, I WANT it improved, but it seems I am one of the few that understands wanting something does not equate to getting it.

First they were 20th the year before, 2nd their ranking is based on adjusted sacks so the ones were you could argue Rw was at fault would not matter. Now as to the quality of pass rushers we were last, dead last every team in the NFC west faced the same pass rushers we did, and we were still last and it was not even close. The next nearest NFC west team was 10 spots ahead of us. 2 of the top 15 were NFC west teams. I understand injuries but that excuse will not help much if RW is out for the season. We do not get anything because injuries happen. The reality is they need to improve we need to be top 15 not bottom 15 and that was with everyone healthy. As to w scrambling if our o-line was better he would not need to scramble so much.

[Anthony]

It's an area of need that hasn't really been addressed in going on 3 years.
I've been saying it needed attention for the last 2 years.
That's my main concern.
Maybe it's a talent problem in FA, but you have to try to improve. Bring people in and see if they fit and you can sign them - guys like G Asomough (sp) who was signed from KC or Cousins from the Browns.
They might not have been the answer or be too expensive, but at least try for gods sake. You don't know who might take less to be on a recent Championship team with a bright future.

That sounds like, and maybe I am wrong, that your process is throw sh*t at the wall and see if it sticks. Sorry, I simply do not adhere to the belief that that is an effective way to upgrade an offensive line in the NFL. We are talking about upgrades right? I mean that seems to me to be the crux of what the complaint is, and yet people continue to throw out band aid solutions, and INFERIOR lineman as the answer. Seems very, very counter productive and in no way I see improves the situation.

It IS a concern, but for whatever reason, no one seems to be able to see that it IS a concern, for ALL teams, not just Seattle, which would be why you don't see this front office panicking to sign guys just to sign them. Dumping resources for the sake of it. Plenty of those guys ( and actually MORE) will be available after the draft, and won't be looking for huge contracts. I personally LIKE that they aren't willing to spend more than a player worth simply to appease us fans, that is what the Browns do, or Oakland, Miami, the Jets. It isn't what long term successful franchises do.

These 2 guys are examples of starters on other teams.
There are others on that list that were also starters last year.
Are you suggesting that none are as good as our current backups or starters on a middle of the road OL who just lost their starting RT?

You're worried about the money that's being spent. Fair enough - it's a valid concern.
Are you also worried that they are considering Allen at what 5 or more million (he has apparently asked for 10/year)? Melton will want a good figure as will Finlay if they sign either of them, too. Are they worth more than protecting your franchise QB and solidifying your run game as Marshawn begins to lose a step?

Our o-line was not middle of the road, they were dead last, so any starter form any team would be better.

DEAD LAST

[Anthony]

It seems the philosophy is go cheap on the OL, stack the DL/Defense with talent, and hope the Franchise QB can escape by his own wits. It's a very dangerous gamble with massive downside potential.

Well, that's how you see it, I don't see it that way at all.
Clearly, at this point, you are choosing to ignore all the evidence that has been provided to you that is contrary to your belief.
It's been debated to death now, and if you want to insist that the front office is too stupid to figure it out, that's your problem, but the facts are that they HAVE NOT just ignored the line.
This is proven just by looking the draft trends since Pete has arrived. The team has definitely shown a willingness to draft O-Linemen, in any round.
Believe what you will, but I'm done trying to tell you otherwise, it's pointless.

Yes they have shown a willingness at times to draft o-line but it is not working maybe they should try the FA route and see if that works.

[HumanCockroach]

Anthony, how many games did the starters miss? If your complaint is starters behind the starters, I agree, but I know you are simply looking at numbers of sacks and pressures here. Factor in the quality of pass rushes faced, coupled with Wilsons scrambling and holding onto the football, and you have increased sacks. Unfortunate side effect of those circumstances, but a real side effect none the less.

Again, I WANT it improved, but it seems I am one of the few that understands wanting something does not equate to getting it.

First they were 20th the year before, 2nd their ranking is based on adjusted sacks so the ones were you could argue Rw was at fault would not matter. Now as to the quality of pass rushers we were last, dead last every team in the NFC west faced the same pass rushers we did, and we were still last and it was not even close. The next nearest NFC west team was 10 spots ahead of us. 2 of the top 15 were NFC west teams. I understand injuries but that excuse will not help much if RW is out for the season. We do not get anything because injuries happen. The reality is they need to improve we need to be top 15 not bottom 15 and that was with everyone healthy. As to w scrambling if our o-line was better he would not need to scramble so much.

They certainly DON'T adjust for missing starters, claiming such is silly, second, Wilson was a rookie two years agao, right? You going to sit there and claim that a mobile QB doesn't create blocking problems for an offensive line? Seriously? I thought you PLAYED QB, look at the sack totals of mobile QB's that hold onto the football, and get back to me. Third, throwing money at the problem simply does NOT fix the problem, no matter how you slice it, unless you want a great o-line, with not much of anything else around it ( a recipe for a mediocre to crappy team).

The claim that ALL lineman are better is retarded Anthony. ALL LT are better than Okung? ALL centers are better than Unger? Are you serious, or is that some random claim or over reaction? Not ALL RT's were better than Giacomini, not ALL guards are better than Carpenter or Sweezy. It does NOT work that way.

I'll stick with the opinions placed by people that PLAYED the position over a trumped up claim.

I know you love stats, and that IS what this is based on. That Line was NOT bottom half of the league period. To bad you missed the SB, GREAT game, you should watch it, Wilson wasn't touched, seriously doubt a subpar line accomplishes that, especially without a running game.

Dismiss the quality of the pass rush if you want, I simply will NEVER agree.

[HumanCockroach]

North, first of all you keep using the word "indifference" and in the words of the immortal Indigo Montoya, you keep using that word, I do not think it means, what you think it means.

Signing your OWN players, or drafting your OWN players, judging their worth, and refusing to pay them to much, does NOT show indifference. Indifference would be either letting them ALL walk, or just signing them all, no matter the cost, which Seattle most assuredly has NOT done. They signed Unger to a long term deal, when he hadn't proved anything ( hmm, they must have seen something eh?) They drafted Okung ( to be clear, they certainly did NOT have to, nor did they HAVE to give him his contract) they DID draft Carpenter and Moffitt ( so that is what? 2 of their 4 1st round picks), they went out and got Giacomini and then resigned him, before deciding the cost was too high and let him walk, they went out and got McQ, then resigned him as well, before deciding he wasn't worth the money, and let him walk. They have INDEED been attempting to improve that line each and EVERY year, whether it be through signing or releasing,or drafting. How MANY of the players not good enough on the line have been cut or released by this FO that have started for other teams? And yet obviously they weren't good enough to play for THIS team.

You say they are ignoring the O-line, and aren't looking to upgrade it because they won't overpay other teams castoff( teams by the way that just so happened to NOT just win a SB)? I say they have nothing BUT upgrade this line since they got here.
Bennett and Avril were KEYS to that SB victory North, as was the oh so awful line ( who by the way PAVED the wayfor the MOST productive RB in the NFL the last three seasons, or did they not have a hand in that as well). Avril and Bennett were signed on cut rate deals, not some mega contracts. The Seahawks "bargain hunted" for them, and yet they are supposed to hemorrhage cash for inferior talent? WTF man? Not going to happen, and if that causes you stress, so be it.

[Anthony]

Anthony, how many games did the starters miss? If your complaint is starters behind the starters, I agree, but I know you are simply looking at numbers of sacks and pressures here. Factor in the quality of pass rushes faced, coupled with Wilsons scrambling and holding onto the football, and you have increased sacks. Unfortunate side effect of those circumstances, but a real side effect none the less.

Again, I WANT it improved, but it seems I am one of the few that understands wanting something does not equate to getting it.

First they were 20th the year before, 2nd their ranking is based on adjusted sacks so the ones were you could argue Rw was at fault would not matter. Now as to the quality of pass rushers we were last, dead last every team in the NFC west faced the same pass rushers we did, and we were still last and it was not even close. The next nearest NFC west team was 10 spots ahead of us. 2 of the top 15 were NFC west teams. I understand injuries but that excuse will not help much if RW is out for the season. We do not get anything because injuries happen. The reality is they need to improve we need to be top 15 not bottom 15 and that was with everyone healthy. As to w scrambling if our o-line was better he would not need to scramble so much.

They certainly DON'T adjust for missing starters, claiming such is silly, second, Wilson was a rookie two years agao, right? You going to sit there and claim that a mobile QB doesn't create blocking problems for an offensive line? Seriously? I thought you PLAYED QB, look at the sack totals of mobile QB's that hold onto the football, and get back to me. Third, throwing money at the problem simply does NOT fix the problem, no matter how you slice it, unless you want a great o-line, with not much of anything else around it ( a recipe for a mediocre to crappy team).

The claim that ALL lineman are better is retarded Anthony. ALL LT are better than Okung? ALL centers are better than Unger? Are you serious, or is that some random claim or over reaction? Not ALL RT's were better than Giacomini, not ALL guards are better than Carpenter or Sweezy. It does NOT work that way.

I'll stick with the opinions placed by people that PLAYED the position over a trumped up claim.

I know you love stats, and that IS what this is based on. That Line was NOT bottom half of the league period. To bad you missed the SB, GREAT game, you should watch it, Wilson wasn't touched, seriously doubt a subpar line accomplishes that, especially without a running game.

Dismiss the quality of the pass rush if you want, I simply will NEVER agree.

Are you going to sit there and say a mobile QB does not help a poor blocking team? Of course he does a lot more than he hurts them. Wow so the o-line managed to keep RW untouched in one game, Hate to tell you they were last period, RW was the most hit, hurried and sacked QB in the league period. Also please show me were I said "All lineman are better"? All I said was we were the worst in the league, which is a fact, and there for we need to improve the o-line also a fact. You can try all you want but they were last, Last and the year before 20th, they no were near the top 1/3rd. there is a reason why every expert is saying we need to improve the o-line. Again as to the quality of the pass rush, and yet all the other teams seeing the same quality did way way better. You see the problem is you really do not have a leg to stand on at all. We were last period, excuses are excuses we were last. Our mobile QB that you seem to love to blame for the o-lien issues is also the reason it was not worse. All the experts are also saying we need to improve the o-line. I think I will go with the experts and facts over your opinion. thanks

[HumanCockroach]

Two posts up. " they were dead last, so any starter from any team is better" or something to that effect. I don't need to explain that mobile QB's make it MORE difficult to block, not less, it is anywhere you want to look. It does indeed benefit the OFFENSE more than it hurts it, doesn't mean it is easier to block for, because lineman do NOT know where the QB is, or will be, or how long he will hold the ball. If you don't grasp that, not sure how to help you. Google it, plenty of articles on it.

At this point I simply don't CARE what you all think about it. You want to believe there are upgrades falling out of trees be my guest. I simply don't care.

As someone that WANTS the line improved, I am done attempting to explain why WANTING something and actually GETTING it aren't the same thing. Enjoy sitting around and moaning, without any idea how to fix it, or improve it. Pretty productive. SMH

[NorthHawk]

North, first of all you keep using the word "indifference" and in the words of the immortal Indigo Montoya, you keep using that word, I do not think it means, what you think it means.

Signing your OWN players, or drafting your OWN players, judging their worth, and refusing to pay them to much, does NOT show indifference. Indifference would be either letting them ALL walk, or just signing them all, no matter the cost, which Seattle most assuredly has NOT done. They signed Unger to a long term deal, when he hadn't proved anything ( hmm, they must have seen something eh?) They drafted Okung ( to be clear, they certainly did NOT have to, nor did they HAVE to give him his contract) they DID draft Carpenter and Moffitt ( so that is what? 2 of their 4 1st round picks), they went out and got Giacomini and then resigned him, before deciding the cost was too high and let him walk, they went out and got McQ, then resigned him as well, before deciding he wasn't worth the money, and let him walk. They have INDEED been attempting to improve that line each and EVERY year, whether it be through signing or releasing,or drafting. How MANY of the players not good enough on the line have been cut or released by this FO that have started for other teams? And yet obviously they weren't good enough to play for THIS team.

You say they are ignoring the O-line, and aren't looking to upgrade it because they won't overpay other teams castoff( teams by the way that just so happened to NOT just win a SB)? I say they have nothing BUT upgrade this line since they got here.
Bennett and Avril were KEYS to that SB victory North, as was the oh so awful line ( who by the way PAVED the wayfor the MOST productive RB in the NFL the last three seasons, or did they not have a hand in that as well). Avril and Bennett were signed on cut rate deals, not some mega contracts. The Seahawks "bargain hunted" for them, and yet they are supposed to hemorrhage cash for inferior talent? WTF man? Not going to happen, and if that causes you stress, so be it.

Indifference: Lack of concern or sympathy (Merriam Webster Online)

All FAs are other teams cast offs be it cap problems, new schemes, injuries, etc. just like Bennett and Avril.
It's almost inconceivable that not one OL FA would be worth a look unless the FO is happy with mediocrity along the OL.

Mediocrity: the quality of something that is not very good : the quality or state of being mediocre.

[HumanCockroach]

North, first of all you keep using the word "indifference" and in the words of the immortal Indigo Montoya, you keep using that word, I do not think it means, what you think it means.

Signing your OWN players, or drafting your OWN players, judging their worth, and refusing to pay them to much, does NOT show indifference. Indifference would be either letting them ALL walk, or just signing them all, no matter the cost, which Seattle most assuredly has NOT done. They signed Unger to a long term deal, when he hadn't proved anything ( hmm, they must have seen something eh?) They drafted Okung ( to be clear, they certainly did NOT have to, nor did they HAVE to give him his contract) they DID draft Carpenter and Moffitt ( so that is what? 2 of their 4 1st round picks), they went out and got Giacomini and then resigned him, before deciding the cost was too high and let him walk, they went out and got McQ, then resigned him as well, before deciding he wasn't worth the money, and let him walk. They have INDEED been attempting to improve that line each and EVERY year, whether it be through signing or releasing,or drafting. How MANY of the players not good enough on the line have been cut or released by this FO that have started for other teams? And yet obviously they weren't good enough to play for THIS team.

You say they are ignoring the O-line, and aren't looking to upgrade it because they won't overpay other teams castoff( teams by the way that just so happened to NOT just win a SB)? I say they have nothing BUT upgrade this line since they got here.
Bennett and Avril were KEYS to that SB victory North, as was the oh so awful line ( who by the way PAVED the wayfor the MOST productive RB in the NFL the last three seasons, or did they not have a hand in that as well). Avril and Bennett were signed on cut rate deals, not some mega contracts. The Seahawks "bargain hunted" for them, and yet they are supposed to hemorrhage cash for inferior talent? WTF man? Not going to happen, and if that causes you stress, so be it.

Indifference: Lack of concern or sympathy (Merriam Webster Online)

All FAs are other teams cast offs be it cap problems, new schemes, injuries, etc. just like Bennett and Avril.
It's almost inconceivable that not one OL FA would be worth a look unless the FO is happy with mediocrity along the OL.

Mediocrity: the quality of something that is not very good : the quality or state of being mediocre.

That's great and all, but you have been given numerous examples that show indifference isn't the case, I don't believe quantity is involved in that word is it North? Nope. In fact, the definition applies to a FEELING not an action. So unless you are claiming to know what this FO feels, and simply doesn't care to improve, then you indeed were not using the word correctly man. Sorry, but you provided the definition, and it supports what I said. Indifference would be a lack of caring one way or the other, since they have PAID, DRAFTED and DEVELOPED players to improve that line ( whether they have been successful or not is irrelevant), it shows a DISTINCT LACK of "indifference".

As for "mediocre" the definition wasn't needed, as it is pretty apparent that there is a LOT of mediocre players on your list, and yet you continue to clamor for the privilege to over pay them.

[Anthony]

Two posts up. " they were dead last, so any starter from any team is better" or something to that effect. I don't need to explain that mobile QB's make it MORE difficult to block, not less, it is anywhere you want to look. It does indeed benefit the OFFENSE more than it hurts it, doesn't mean it is easier to block for, because lineman do NOT know where the QB is, or will be, or how long he will hold the ball. If you don't grasp that, not sure how to help you. Google it, plenty of articles on it.

At this point I simply don't CARE what you all think about it. You want to believe there are upgrades falling out of trees be my guest. I simply don't care.

As someone that WANTS the line improved, I am done attempting to explain why WANTING something and actually GETTING it aren't the same thing. Enjoy sitting around and moaning, without any idea how to fix it, or improve it. Pretty productive. SMH

2 posts up I said this "Yes they have shown a willingness at times to draft o-line but it is not working maybe they should try the FA route and see if that works." It was 3 posts up and you point, like I said when you are dead last in pass protection any starter form any team would have been part of a better unit and there for be better. As to the rest of your post if you bothered going to any site and seeing the free agents you would have seen a few that would have ben up grades that we have not even sniffed. as to the rest of your post pretty lame and worthless to tell you the truth. We need to improve our o-line pass blocking, that is a fact, we have not as of yes that is a fact, not much to debate.

[Anthony]

North, first of all you keep using the word "indifference" and in the words of the immortal Indigo Montoya, you keep using that word, I do not think it means, what you think it means.

Signing your OWN players, or drafting your OWN players, judging their worth, and refusing to pay them to much, does NOT show indifference. Indifference would be either letting them ALL walk, or just signing them all, no matter the cost, which Seattle most assuredly has NOT done. They signed Unger to a long term deal, when he hadn't proved anything ( hmm, they must have seen something eh?) They drafted Okung ( to be clear, they certainly did NOT have to, nor did they HAVE to give him his contract) they DID draft Carpenter and Moffitt ( so that is what? 2 of their 4 1st round picks), they went out and got Giacomini and then resigned him, before deciding the cost was too high and let him walk, they went out and got McQ, then resigned him as well, before deciding he wasn't worth the money, and let him walk. They have INDEED been attempting to improve that line each and EVERY year, whether it be through signing or releasing,or drafting. How MANY of the players not good enough on the line have been cut or released by this FO that have started for other teams? And yet obviously they weren't good enough to play for THIS team.

You say they are ignoring the O-line, and aren't looking to upgrade it because they won't overpay other teams castoff( teams by the way that just so happened to NOT just win a SB)? I say they have nothing BUT upgrade this line since they got here.
Bennett and Avril were KEYS to that SB victory North, as was the oh so awful line ( who by the way PAVED the wayfor the MOST productive RB in the NFL the last three seasons, or did they not have a hand in that as well). Avril and Bennett were signed on cut rate deals, not some mega contracts. The Seahawks "bargain hunted" for them, and yet they are supposed to hemorrhage cash for inferior talent? WTF man? Not going to happen, and if that causes you stress, so be it.

Indifference: Lack of concern or sympathy (Merriam Webster Online)

All FAs are other teams cast offs be it cap problems, new schemes, injuries, etc. just like Bennett and Avril.
It's almost inconceivable that not one OL FA would be worth a look unless the FO is happy with mediocrity along the OL.

Mediocrity: the quality of something that is not very good : the quality or state of being mediocre.

That's great and all, but you have been given numerous examples that show indifference isn't the case, I don't believe quantity is involved in that word is it North? Nope. In fact, the definition applies to a FEELING not an action. So unless you are claiming to know what this FO feels, and simply doesn't care to improve, then you indeed were not using the word correctly man. Sorry, but you provided the definition, and it supports what I said. Indifference would be a lack of caring one way or the other, since they have PAID, DRAFTED and DEVELOPED players to improve that line ( whether they have been successful or not is irrelevant), it shows a DISTINCT LACK of "indifference".

As for "mediocre" the definition wasn't needed, as it is pretty apparent that there is a LOT of mediocre players on your list, and yet you continue to clamor for the privilege to over pay them.

You are making a lot of assumptions, since we have not brought any o-line in to visit we have know clue if they would require to be over paid or not. We really have no clue, As of now all we know is they have not even tried to address the weakest link on the team OL.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL, I'm making assumptions. Yeah, sure.

[monkey]

You are making a lot of assumptions,

LOL!
Pot, meet kettle!

[Anthony]

You are making a lot of assumptions,

LOL!
Pot, meet kettle!

I have made no assumptions at all. I made a statement of fact the o-line has been the weakest link on the team, and as of now we have done nothing this year to fix it, that's a fact, no assuming involved.

[HumanCockroach]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -rankings/

Pretty interesting stuff. Okung in the top 5 in the league, Giacomini the same as Donald Penn, and better than Jonathan Martin. Bowie ranked HIGHEST amongst Seattle lineman, hmm, maybe there actually IS an upgrade already on the team. Unger and Okung had "down" years, at least for them. McQuistan had the LOWEST ranking amongst LT's in the league ( maybe a good idea to let him walk).

Pretty cool stuff, the most interesting thing is, 4 of the top 5 offensive line teams, are really, REALLY bad football teams. Maybe the line is a little over rated? I supposed pass blocking is incredibly important for a pass happy team, I just think a LOT of folks here are missing that Seattle ISN'T one of those teams. Run blocking in Seattle is indeed the MOST important aspect of the lineman they run out there.

It is important to improve the line, but jumping at lineman on par with Giacomini ( especially when a better lineman that is WELL above league average is sitting on the bench, and is CHEAP) or WORSE. Seems pretty irresponsible to me.

[NorthHawk]

We might have been able to sign Jon Asamoah at only a 2.8 million cap hit this year and 4.3 next year to upgrade our 26th ranked OL, but according to some, it's not a priority.