HawkShack.com

by **TriCitySam** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:26 pm

It's getting close! Always interesting to look at the various Top 100's and the mocks. Seems to be more variance this year in player ratings below #15. You see McShay with Ross Blacklock at #10, PFF has him at #55. There's a lot of that. Most of the mock's have the Hawks taking a DE with Gross-Matos being the most common one - but you also see Epenesa. Then you see OL, S, C and LB. Common names there are S McKinney (doubt he'll be there) and C Ruiz.

What we know from past experience is two things: 1) JS likes to trade down and 2) their player evaluations rarely match the media. So, I'd bet on a trade down, and given recent activity the need is still there for a rusher, and when they pick one I'll be scratching my head.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:22 pm

TriCitySam wrote:It's getting close! Always interesting to look at the various Top 100's and the mocks. Seems to be more variance this year in player ratings below #15. You see McShay with Ross Blacklock at #10, PFF has him at #55. There's a lot of that. Most of the mock's have the Hawks taking a DE with Gross-Matos being the most common one - but you also see Epenesa. Then you see OL, S, C and LB. Common names there are S McKinney (doubt he'll be there) and C Ruiz.

What we know from past experience is two things: 1) JS likes to trade down and 2) their player evaluations rarely match the media. So, I'd bet on a trade down, and given recent activity the need is still there for a rusher, and when they pick one I'll be scratching my head.

It is getting to be that time of year, and with nothing else to do, we might as well start a good discussion on the draft. Thanks for starting the thread.

This season seems to be a bit confusing as we've had some comp picks awarded and we've made a trade or two, so it's a little difficult to tell exactly what and where our picks line up, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Here's what I have us as having:

1 (27)
2 (59)
2 (64)
3 (101)
4 (133)
4 (144)
5 None (Diggs trade)
6 (214)
7 None

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... 255-picks/

Anyone have any better information?

by **TriCitySam** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:34 pm

Yes, I believe your pick list is correct, at least it was what the Hawks showed on their website before the Dunbar trade. Been stuck in my house for two weeks (other than walking) and have played Football War Room till I'm rummy....

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:20 pm

Dunbar trade was for a 5th, next years?

by **RiverDog** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:56 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Dunbar trade was for a 5th, next years?

Must be. The site I saw showed us losing our 2020 5th to Detroit, which means it was for the Diggs trade.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:24 pm

No, our original 5th was 172, that's the one we sent to Detroit. 162 shows a Washington pick from Pittsburgh via Seattle. So we'd have had 2 in the 5th this year but traded them both.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:45 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:No, our original 5th was 172, that's the one we sent to Detroit. 162 shows a Washington pick from Pittsburgh via Seattle. So we'd have had 2 in the 5th this year but traded them both.

Ahh, IC. Thanks for the correction! Like I said earlier, it's pretty confusing.

by **Zorn2Largent** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:05 pm

I hope they don't trade down this year. We could use a good O lineman in this draft. And one could still be there at 27.

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:30 pm

Zorn2Largent wrote:I hope they don't trade down this year. We could use a good O lineman in this draft. And one could still be there at 27.

I think it’s a certainty they trade down. John likes his picks and there should be a lot of good players between our
last pick in round 2 and our next pick in round three. As well, if they think the talent tier is equal from 27 to early round
two, they will try to recover picks lost in earlier trades like round 5. I’m of two minds on it, but I expect it to happen
even if that player at 27 is a top talent.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:54 pm

Zorn2Largent wrote:I hope they don't trade down this year. We could use a good O lineman in this draft. And one could still be there at 27.

NorthHawk wrote:I think it’s a certainty they trade down. John likes his picks and there should be a lot of good players between our
last pick in round 2 and our next pick in round three. As well, if they think the talent tier is equal from 27 to early round
two, they will try to recover picks lost in earlier trades like round 5. I’m of two minds on it, but I expect it to happen
even if that player at 27 is a top talent.

We might not trade out of the first round, but with two second rounders within 5 picks of each other, IMO that's where we are more likely to move down and accumulate some picks. The odds of two players on our want list in that price range both being available seems a little remote.

by **obiken** » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:45 pm

I dont know what drives me crazier, Holmy botching draft picks, or PC trading down all the time. I guess Holmy!

by **RiverDog** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:54 am

obiken wrote:I dont know what drives me crazier, Holmy botching draft picks, or PC trading down all the time. I guess Holmy!

Picking higher in the draft is certainly a lot more glamorous than trading down, but we have to govern our initial response that attracts us to the shiny objects with the realization that teams have their own process that they follow and protect like some sort of a trade secret.

So we'll see. This year's draft is going to be weird with the social distancing guidelines that are in effect.

by **NorthHawk** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:04 am

It all depends on how the teams grade the talent.
If a team looks at who is left on the board and values that tier of players equally for the next 15 on their board,
then it's a no brainer to trade down and get picks later on who just might be undervalued. It makes sense too if
you don't think a player is worth a 1st round grade to trade down and pay that selection less money. So it really
depends on the individual teams viewpoint of what they are looking for in the draft.

by **obiken** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:54 am

Its almost a month away, maybe it will be over by then River!

by **RiverDog** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:22 am

obiken wrote:Its almost a month away, maybe it will be over by then River!

Not likely. We'll be lucky for it to be 'over' by Memorial Day.

by **TriCitySam** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:09 pm

It's certainly more fun for the fans (at least ME) when they use the first round pick, I hate waiting around...seeing us pass by players I think might be a good fit (not that I'm right). But the fact is when you get past the top 15, the grades between 16 and 46, or even 56, are usually pretty close. So I understand the value in trading down and maybe getting an extra pick. We have enough needs, I could see us taking any number of positions.

Outside the top 15, it's pretty hard to look at one or two players that's a "must have" - and as I mentioned rankings are pretty varied. Epenesa is rated pretty high on a number of boards, but one report had an NFL scout saying "he's on my 'All-Overrated' team. There's just nothing there for me, a bust type." I think that was based on a slow 40 and was the worst of big men on bench press with only 17 reps. Got no clue at this point....be nice to get a great OL, but we haven't done the best at that.

by **RiverDog** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:50 pm

TriCitySam wrote:It's certainly more fun for the fans (at least ME) when they use the first round pick, I hate waiting around...seeing us pass by players I think might be a good fit (not that I'm right). But the fact is when you get past the top 15, the grades between 16 and 46, or even 56, are usually pretty close. So I understand the value in trading down and maybe getting an extra pick. We have enough needs, I could see us taking any number of positions.

Outside the top 15, it's pretty hard to look at one or two players that's a "must have" - and as I mentioned rankings are pretty varied. Epenesa is rated pretty high on a number of boards, but one report had an NFL scout saying "he's on my 'All-Overrated' team. There's just nothing there for me, a bust type." I think that was based on a slow 40 and was the worst of big men on bench press with only 17 reps. Got no clue at this point....be nice to get a great OL, but we haven't done the best at that.

Yea, that's me, too. The most exciting draft I've seen was when we had the #4 overall and I was just hoping and praying that we'd draft Aaron Curry, who I was convinced was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor.

I'm not a real draft junkie but since there's absolutely nothing going on now, I'll probably dig my nose into it more than I have in years past.

by **jshawaii22** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:19 pm

Yea, that's me, too. The most exciting draft I've seen was when we had the #4 overall and I was just hoping and praying that we'd draft Aaron Curry, who I was convinced was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor.

Lets not forget we all thought the Chiefs jump up was for Curry... but, no, they chose a bigger bust then Curry in Tyson Jackson. What a crapshoot the draft is!

by **jshawaii22** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:19 pm

Yea, that's me, too. The most exciting draft I've seen was when we had the #4 overall and I was just hoping and praying that we'd draft Aaron Curry, who I was convinced was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor.

Lets not forget we all thought the Chiefs jump up was for Curry... but, no, they chose a bigger bust then Curry in Tyson Jackson. What a crapshoot the draft is!

by **RiverDog** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:48 am

Yea, that's me, too. The most exciting draft I've seen was when we had the #4 overall and I was just hoping and praying that we'd draft Aaron Curry, who I was convinced was going to be the next Lawrence Taylor.

jshawaii22 wrote:Lets not forget we all thought the Chiefs jump up was for Curry... but, no, they chose a bigger bust then Curry in Tyson Jackson. What a crapshoot the draft is!

Looking back to that draft, we're damn lucky that we didn't take Mark Sanchez as was widely speculated or else it might have affected our decision on Russell Wilson 3 years later. Sanchez played for Pete at USC, so had Ruskell taken Sanchez, there's the definite possibility that Sanchez would have played just well enough for the next couple of years to create the illusion that he was the QB of the future.

by **c_hawkbob** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:17 am

The NFL has decided that each team will be able to interview any prospect for an hour at a time, up to 3 times a week until the draft. That's a substantial change from before and I think that, for this year at least, reports of who we're talking to (from our own beat writers preferably) will give us a good idea of who we're actually looking at drafting.

So while I have my 3-deep all but ready to put out there, I'm going to hold off a while so I get to adjust a bit as more information becomes available ... since the draft is April 23rd I'll put it out about the second week of April, so get your lists ready!

by **NorthHawk** » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:28 am

We did give up a pick for Quinton Dunbar, so maybe I can squeeze this story into this thread.

Ray Horton compares Dunbar to a young Richard Sherman. There are some parallels in their
stories, and they have similar builds...
Maybe we can hope he's nearly as good.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... d-sherman/

by **RiverDog** » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:15 am

NorthHawk wrote:We did give up a pick for Quinton Dunbar, so maybe I can squeeze this story into this thread.

Ray Horton compares Dunbar to a young Richard Sherman. There are some parallels in their
stories, and they have similar builds...
Maybe we can hope he's nearly as good.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... d-sherman/

Interesting stuff. I'll put Dunbar on my must watch list.

by **TriCitySam** » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:16 pm

We'll hope Horton is spot on.....by the way he's (Horton) a graduate of Mount Tahoma HS in Tacoma and a former Husky. He's been a coach since '94, bounced around quite a bit, but I guess most do. But he had 7 seasons as secondary coach with the Steelers, 4 of those, pass D was in the top 5, including #1 in 2008. Left to be D coordinator under Whisenhunt at AZ, and did fairly well. I will say, at 27 Dunbar has had his chances.

by **obiken** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:23 am

I think Sherm was the weakest of the LOB. In fact I wonder IF he could have made it without them.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:24 am

obiken wrote:I think Sherm was the weakest of the LOB. In fact I wonder IF he could have made it without them.

The weakest of the original LOB was Browner, but I disagree with your assessment of Sherman. The fact that quarterbacks so rarely tested him is a testament to his talent. I can remember one game vs. the Packers that Aaron Rodgers didn't throw to Sherman's side once during the entire game. Sherman benefited from Earl's ability to cover so much territory, but that in no way makes Sherman a lesser cornerback. He'll be very deserving of that gold jacket he's going to be sporting here in a few years.

by **obiken** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:10 am

Your putting him in the HOF? Okay.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:01 am

Sherm is absolutely a Hall of Famer Obi, he's the NFL's best Corner of the last decade (2010 to 2019).

by **RiverDog** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:39 am

obiken wrote:Your putting him in the HOF? Okay.

First ballot. A bottle of wine for you if he's not, a frosty IPA from you if he is.

by **govandals** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 am

Sherm is easily a HOF'er. Is he a first ballot guy, though? I think it will take a few years. I can see Sherm on twitter gloating if he makes it before Patrick Peterson! lol

by **RiverDog** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:57 am

govandals wrote:Sherm is easily a HOF'er. Is he a first ballot guy, though? I think it will take a few years. I can see Sherm on twitter gloating if he makes it before Patrick Peterson! lol

Peterson won't go in before Sherman simply due to the team he was on. Sherman has a ring, which is a huge bullet point on an HOF resume. Definitely first ballot. Revis is the only other corner in the same era that's in the discussion.

by **govandals** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:17 am

This years draft has a different vibe. Lack of Pro days, regional combines, visits/private workouts may hinder teams ability to gather all the info they want. This may affect draft stock of small school players, combine non-invitees and players coming off injuries. Just my opinion.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:39 am

RiverDog wrote:First ballot. A bottle of wine for you if he's not, a frosty IPA from you if he is.

govandals wrote:Sherm is easily a HOF'er. Is he a first ballot guy, though?

I think Riv's got the safe side of that bet.

by **govandals** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:43 am

That's a River/Obi wager. I'm more a cheap domestic beer guy anyway!!

by **RiverDog** » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:46 am

RiverDog wrote:First ballot. A bottle of wine for you if he's not, a frosty IPA from you if he is.

govandals wrote:Sherm is easily a HOF'er. Is he a first ballot guy, though?

c_hawkbob wrote:I think Riv's got the safe side of that bet.

Ssshhhh. They're going to want odds if you start evaluating the bet.

by **TriCitySam** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:05 am

FYI: If you need some reading, the website "The Athletic" has a draft report out (245 pages). Dane Brugler writes it, kinda like the Draft Report Kiper used to do. Got no idea where he gets his info. You have to susbscribe to get it, but they have a "free trial" going on which allows you to download it.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:07 am

TriCitySam wrote:FYI: If you need some reading, the website "The Athletic" has a draft report out (245 pages). Dane Brugler writes it, kinda like the Draft Report Kiper used to do. Got no idea where he gets his info. You have to susbscribe to get it, but they have a "free trial" going on which allows you to download it.

245 pages? Holy cow, I hope it has a lot of pictures and charts!

by **Aseahawkfan** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:58 pm

Sherm is a HoFer, for sure. He and Earl both. If Kam played a little longer, he might have gone too. For four years Sherm was the best corner in the league and part of one of the historically best defenses in NFL history and had a historical Super Bowl performance.

by **obiken** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:07 am

The Draft is 2 weeks from today!!

by **c_hawkbob** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:11 am

obiken wrote:The Draft is 2 weeks from today!!

Ok ok, I'll get my 3 deep out tonight. 8-)

HawkShack.com

Who is online