Free Agency News

[mykc14]

Looks like Fowler is going to the Falcons at 16 mil/year. He as a guy I was really hoping we could get alongside Clowney. There aren't alot of options left for a prototypical LEO defender. Hopefully we sign Clowney, but then we're looking at a guy like Bruce Irvin at Leo. Maybe Markus Golden could be an effective LEO for us. He hasn't been very consistent in his career but he is coming off of a 10 sack season and he should still be in his prime at 29 years old. Not a lot of options out there...

[RiverDog]

How about this - Last year there were 20,000 empty seats a game at Raymond James stadium. Given 10 games (8 + 2 preseason) at $100/tix, that seat is worth $1000.00 on a season ticket, 20,000 x $1000 = $20million, before you add income from parking, concessions, souvenir sales (like Brady jerseys) so if you look at it though ONLY that, he's coming pretty much free vs resigning Jameis at say $18-20m a year, but having 20,000 empty seats.

I came up with a little different numbers. According to Forbes, Tampa Bay's gate receipts is only about $54M a season. A 1/4 increase in gate receipts, which would be a HUGE jump, would only amount in an increase of just $13.5M. A more reasonable assumption would be closer to a 10 or 15 percent gain in ticket sales due to the signing of Brady, or $6M-$8M. Obviously there's going to be some other revenue gain from the Brady signing that they normally wouldn't have realized and might pay for the increase in what they are paying for the QB position, but that wasn't really my point. My point was that ticket sales aren't a huge percentage of the revenue pie and that it's not a good way to run a football team railroad if you're signing players based solely on their impact on the balance sheet.

Tampa Bay's revenue is about $400 million a season, so Brady's impact on their revenue isn't that significant if you're basing it solely on increased ticket sales, parking, concessions, etc. They're going to have to win football games if they want to see a huge boost in revenue/franchise value.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/tampa-bay- ... 39fbd235d1

[NorthHawk]

Looks like Fowler is going to the Falcons at 16 mil/year. He as a guy I was really hoping we could get alongside Clowney. There aren't alot of options left for a prototypical LEO defender. Hopefully we sign Clowney, but then we're looking at a guy like Bruce Irvin at Leo. Maybe Markus Golden could be an effective LEO for us. He hasn't been very consistent in his career but he is coming off of a 10 sack season and he should still be in his prime at 29 years old. Not a lot of options out there...

JS doesn't like to jump into the pool early in FA, but I think it can be a little short sighted at times.
Now we have a situation where we desperately need a pass rush and there are only a few legitimate
players left. Clowney can hold out for more knowing we are desperate, and if we want to trade for
another player like Ngakoue (sp), both the player and Jacksonville know there isn't much talent left
and can pry more for his services. Where we could have traded for Ngakoue and sent perhaps a late
2nd pick, Jacksonville can now hold out for our 1st pick as well Yannick can hold out for top $$.

If left too late, there won't be much room to move before the season starts. I guess we could
always sign Ansah again.

[NorthHawk]

We brought back Bruce Irvin to supposedly help the pass rush.
We're also apparently signing Brandon Shell from the Jets to play RT.
I guess they take one of ours (Fant) so we take one of theirs.

[NorthHawk]

Looks like Tedric Thompson is gone.
He’s been given permission to seek a trade.

[jshawaii22]

I came up with a little different numbers. According to Forbes, Tampa Bay's gate receipts is only about $54M a season. A 1/4 increase in gate receipts, which would be a HUGE jump, would only amount in an increase of just $13.5M. A more reasonable assumption would be closer to a 10 or 15 percent gain in ticket sales due to the signing of Brady, or $6M-$8M. Obviously there's going to be some other revenue gain from the Brady signing that they normally wouldn't have realized and might pay for the increase in what they are paying for the QB position, but that wasn't really my point. My point was that ticket sales aren't a huge percentage of the revenue pie and that it's not a good way to run a football team railroad if you're signing players based solely on their impact on the balance sheet.

Tampa Bay's revenue is about $400 million a season, so Brady's impact on their revenue isn't that significant if you're basing it solely on increased ticket sales, parking, concessions, etc. They're going to have to win football games if they want to see a huge boost in revenue/franchise value.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/tampa-bay- ... 39fbd235d1

[/quote]


I was comparing the cost to sign Brady @30m vs the cost of almost any other QB -- the difference is 10m a year, give or take. I'll bet the season tix prices just went up, too.
As most tickets are sold in advance, and people who are flying in to see Tom vs any team, all purchase and book well in advance, so it really won't have a lot to do with their record, at least the first year, but it always helps to win.

[RiverDog]

I was comparing the cost to sign Brady @30m vs the cost of almost any other QB -- the difference is 10m a year, give or take. I'll bet the season tix prices just went up, too.

As most tickets are sold in advance, and people who are flying in to see Tom vs any team, all purchase and book well in advance, so it really won't have a lot to do with their record, at least the first year, but it always helps to win.

I hear what you're saying. If Tampa Bay's objective is to make more money, I suppose signing Brady makes a little more sense. I guess I'm just not that impressed with the signing.

[mykc14]

We brought back Bruce Irvin to supposedly help the pass rush.
We're also apparently signing Brandon Shell from the Jets to play RT.
I guess they take one of ours (Fant) so we take one of theirs.

I like the Shell signing and don't think he's going to be a huge drop off from Ifedi. As far as Irvin goes I'm not suprised he's just about the only guy left on the open market who fits really well into our system. He's 33 and not more than a pass-rush specialist for us. If he can get 5-6 sacks next year he will be worth the signing. He's not what I was hoping for but he does provide a little insurance. Keeping my fingers crossed on Clowney, but him and Irvin aren't enough to improve one of the league's worst pass rushes. Draft, trade, and pray for massive steps forward for Collier, Green, and Griffen are what we have to hope for now. Maybe a second tier guy like Bennett could be added to the mix too.

[Aseahawkfan]

We brought back Bruce Irvin to supposedly help the pass rush.
We're also apparently signing Brandon Shell from the Jets to play RT.
I guess they take one of ours (Fant) so we take one of theirs.

Irvin was turning into a good OLB before he left. I like the signing.

[obiken]

Irvin was turning into a good OLB before he left. I like the signing.

Man I hate being Mr. Contrarian but this move shows total desperation or that Clowney is gone. Both bad.

[RiverDog]

Irvin was turning into a good OLB before he left. I like the signing.

Man I hate being Mr. Contrarian but this move shows total desperation or that Clowney is gone. Both bad.

We haven't seen the contract details on the Irvin signing yet, or at least I haven't.

It's not going to have an impact on Clowney's status. Irvin is not a starter. He's a 3rd down pass rush specialist. Furthermore, our prospects of resigning Clowney have improved as it doesn't look like he's going to get any jaw dropping offers from another team.

Cheer up, Obi!

[jshawaii22]

Talking about 'dead cap space'.... Todd Gurley just got cut from the Rams and the heavily front loaded contract looks like one of the worst in the history of the NFL. Close to 40m for 2 down years. Say what, Ramblo?

[Aseahawkfan]

Man I hate being Mr. Contrarian but this move shows total desperation or that Clowney is gone. Both bad.

Maybe. Or just Schneider picking up cheap talent when available.

[mykc14]

Man I hate being Mr. Contrarian but this move shows total desperation or that Clowney is gone. Both bad.

If we sign Everson Griffen that MIGHT mean we are out on Clowney. They both fit that 5-tech mold pretty well and neither is really a Leo. That’s not to say that they wouldn’t sign them both but if we change gears and sign Griffen I will start to think we have moved on from Clowney, but not until something like that.

[mykc14]

We haven't seen the contract details on the Irvin signing yet, or at least I haven't.

It's not going to have an impact on Clowney's status. Irvin is not a starter. He's a 3rd down pass rush specialist. Furthermore, our prospects of resigning Clowney have improved as it doesn't look like he's going to get any jaw dropping offers from another team.

Cheer up, Obi!

I read that it was worth up to 3.5 mil, but I have no idea what the incentives are or what’s guaranteed. At any rate it certainly has nothing to do with whether or not we are going to sign Clowney.

[obiken]

It's not going to have an impact on Clowney's status. Irvin is not a starter. He's a 3rd down pass rush specialist. Furthermore, our prospects of resigning Clowney have improved as it doesn't look like he's going to get any jaw dropping offers from another team.

Cheer up, Obi!

I am happy, I am really not upset about it, I did not realize he was only 32. I was never a big fan of Irvin's but he was better than I thought, not as good as some people hoped. Only way I am upset is if we break the bank for Clowney. BTW when do we have to sign him?

[RiverDog]

I am happy, I am really not upset about it, I did not realize he was only 32. I was never a big fan of Irvin's but he was better than I thought, not as good as some people hoped. Only way I am upset is if we break the bank for Clowney. BTW when do we have to sign him?

There's no deadline for signing Clowney, but I would expect to hear something this weekend. Reports are that teams aren't willing to go over the $20M/season that the Hawks are supposedly offering. The two teams most rumored to be in the market for him are the Titans and Jets. Clowney has said that he wants to play for a contender, so if that's true, it would rule out the Jets but not the Titans.

The coronavirus is having an effect on free agency. Since the league has banned all visits, team doctors have not been permitted to examine players. As a compromise, they've offered to have the player go to a neutral doctor near where the player lives, but teams still want their own personnel examining them. That's one of the things that is believed to be the cause of the Rams not being able to trade Todd Gurley, whom they released yesterday.

[NorthHawk]

I wonder what Clowney is asking for and how much we are really offering.
We can't go into the new season without a pass rush and lose another year
of Wilson at his peak.
Unless Green takes a huge step forward this year, we will need 2 pass rushers
to give the secondary some help. We lost QJeff who had the most sacks on
our team last year, so as it stands today we have a lesser DL. If we re-sign
Clowney, we will probably be just where we left off last year with no improvement.
I don't think that's a good place to be.

So getting back to how far apart we are, if it's close we should offer the middle
ground - let's say if he wants $22m and we are offering $20m we should up
the offer to $21m. That way everybody can save face and it's less that 0.5%
of the Cap space increase. What we don't want to do is cheese him off so that
he won't want to re-sign here for any money. It's a delicate balance but someone
or both have to give a little to get it done.

[obiken]

Thanks River!

[c_hawkbob]

I wonder what Clowney is asking for and how much we are really offering.
We can't go into the new season without a pass rush and lose another year
of Wilson at his peak.
Unless Green takes a huge step forward this year, we will need 2 pass rushers
to give the secondary some help. We lost QJeff who had the most sacks on
our team last year, so as it stands today we have a lesser DL. If we re-sign
Clowney, we will probably be just where we left off last year with no improvement.
I don't think that's a good place to be.

So getting back to how far apart we are, if it's close we should offer the middle
ground - let's say if he wants $22m and we are offering $20m we should up
the offer to $21m. That way everybody can save face and it's less that 0.5%
of the Cap space increase. What we don't want to do is cheese him off so that
he won't want to re-sign here for any money. It's a delicate balance but someone
or both have to give a little to get it done.

I have read that we've got an $18M per offer on the table and his asking is $22M. But he's not getting bites so ...

[RiverDog]

Another one of our other free agents that's still unsigned is Ifedi. With our two OL signings this week, it may signal that we've decided to move on from him. That ought to make Obi turn some handsprings!

The first wave of signings are over. If anyone was going to make a big, jaw dropping offer to Clowney or Ifedi, they would have done so by now. JS typically doesn't jump into the FA fray until after the first wave, and this season was no exception.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think they finally got tired of Ifedi.

[NorthHawk]

I have read that we've got an $18M per offer on the table and his asking is $22M. But he's not getting bites so ...

Aaron Donald is getting $22.5m and Mack is averaging $23.5m. DeMarcus Lawrence got $21m and Frank Clark got $20.5m.
I can see him getting up to $20m for the right team, but the market is obviously soft this year for his services.

[RiverDog]

I think they finally got tired of Ifedi.

I was pretty down on him, too, but he did play reasonably well this season. He was a Cable/Bevell guy so I don't think they felt the attachment to him that they might have with other players. Had they really liked him, they would have picked up his 5th year option.

But I am surprised that he's gone this long without getting any big offers. If Fant landed a $10M contract, I would have figured he'd be worth $12-15M. It's hard to believe there isn't that big of a market for RT's.

[mykc14]

I was pretty down on him, too, but he did play reasonably well this season. He was a Cable/Bevell guy so I don't think they felt the attachment to him that they might have with other players. Had they really liked him, they would have picked up his 5th year option.

But I am surprised that he's gone this long without getting any big offers. If Fant landed a $10M contract, I would have figured he'd be worth $12-15M. It's hard to believe there isn't that big of a market for RT's.

I have to say I am a bit surprised too. I thought for sure he would have been in that range. It will be interesting to see what he does go for. We paid his supposed replacement 5 mil/year. It seems like he will go for more than that, but I wonder if we would have kept him if he got down in the 8-10 mil/year range.

[NorthHawk]

The new CBA has a provision that we add an extra Offensive Lineman to the game day roster.
I wonder if the additions along the line are with this in mind...

[jshawaii22]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28932205/veteran-de-everson-griffen-says-goodbye-vikings-fans

I'd swap Clowney for a 2 years @ 12m a year for Griffen. He's still a great rotational player for 50-60% of the snaps a game.

[c_hawkbob]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28932205/veteran-de-everson-griffen-says-goodbye-vikings-fans

I'd swap Clowney for a 2 years @ 12m a year for Griffen. He's still a great rotational player for 50-60% of the snaps a game.

I'm sorry but that's just nuts. Clowney is an actual game changer, Griffen is a role player.

[jshawaii22]

Although he was our best DE, Clowney really 'changed' 2 games last year -- I'm not sure 20m+ should go to that production.

[RiverDog]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28932205/veteran-de-everson-griffen-says-goodbye-vikings-fans

I'd swap Clowney for a 2 years @ 12m a year for Griffen. He's still a great rotational player for 50-60% of the snaps a game.

I'm sorry but that's just nuts. Clowney is an actual game changer, Griffen is a role player.

Well, I wouldn't call it 'nuts' as Griffen is likely to cost close to half as much as Clowney, but I agree that there's no comparison between the two players. Clowney is the only disruptor we have on defense, the only one that teams must game plan against.

[RiverDog]

Although he was our best DE, Clowney really 'changed' 2 games last year -- I'm not sure 20m+ should go to that production.

There was only 2 where he scored defensive touchdowns. He does a lot of things that doesn't appear on the stat sheet. I hear what you're saying but at this point we don't have a lot of good options. There's not any players within our reach that have the upside that Clowney has, so if we don't sign him, we're left with hoping that someone like Collier or a random draft pick will come to the party. We've already lost Jefferson. I can't see us maintaining the marginal defense that we had without Clowney.

[Agent 86]

Term now sounds like it also a roadblock. With Clowney not getting the offer he was seeking for a long term deal, sounds like he wants to take just a 1 year deal instead. Will JS and Pete be willing to go through this all over again next year? I don't think they want that, they are probably looking at a minimum 3 year deal for his services.

Clowney will probably be looking for the 1 year deal and then to cash in next year when the market for him will hopefully open up, along with a raise in the salary cap. So no longer is dollar amount being discussed, but the length of the deal is now changing with the soft market.

Negotiations are probably becoming quite interesting. Will John and Pete stand ground on a longer term deal, or give in and give him a 1 year deal and agree not to Tag him again next year. Can't see Clowney signing any 1 year deal that doesn't have some sort of agreement that he cannot be tagged.

[jshawaii22]

I don't know about the validity of that information on a one-year deal. Clowney specifically made us agree that we wouldn't franchise him, and that's a one-year deal, and it's guaranteed from the day you sign it.

[RiverDog]

I don't know about the validity of that information on a one-year deal. Clowney specifically made us agree that we wouldn't franchise him, and that's a one-year deal, and it's guaranteed from the day you sign it.

Clowney's position on the franchise tag was taken before he tested the free agent market. Now that both sides know what the market actually is, he may be taking a different POV and go for a one year prove it deal in the hopes that the market will be better next season.

[obiken]

What if you just tag him and say now what? Your playing for us too bad!

[RiverDog]

What if you just tag him and say now what? Your playing for us too bad!

Part of the agreement when Clowney was traded to us was that we wouldn't tag him. Besides, it's past the tagging deadline.

[jshawaii22]

I thought this year with us was his "prove-it" year? \

[RiverDog]

I thought this year with us was his "prove-it" year?

It was. But that was BEFORE the market was known to be as weak as it is.

JS doesn't have the tendency to sign long term contracts anyway. A 3 year agreement is our idea of 'long term'.

[c_hawkbob]

I thought this year with us was his "prove-it" year? \

And he did. I don't know what you were watching but sack #'s be damned, we hadn't had a disruptor on the D line like him, last year, in a Seahawk uniform, since John Randle.

[mykc14]

And he did. I don't know what you were watching but sack #'s be damned, we hadn't had a disruptor on the D line like him, last year, in a Seahawk uniform, since John Randle.

Yeah he did. It would be nice to get this thing done. You have to wonder how far apart they are. If we are staying put at 18 mil and he would sign a long term (3 or 4 years) and be happy isn’t that worth the 2 mil? I mean we’re paying Ogbuehi 3.3 mil. and he hasn’t done anything in his pro career. Even if we do sign him for 18 how happy is he going be? He obviously feels like he is worth 20+ mil and if it just takes us coming up 2 mil to make it happen I would be all over it. No you don’t do this for everybody, there are only 15-20 guys in the league you do this for and if you sign Clowney you would have if those types of guys on your team!