If Not Clowney, What About This Guy?

[RiverDog]

Yannick Ngakoue, 24 years old and just entering his prime. The linked article claims that we could get him for a #1 and flipping a 3rd for a 5th, similar to what KC gave up to get Frank Clark.

https://12thmanrising.com/2020/03/02/se ... nIgyT0KdS0

[mykc14]

Yannick Ngakoue, 24 years old and just entering his prime. The linked article claims that we could get him for a #1 and flipping a 3rd for a 5th, similar to what KC gave up to get Frank Clark.

https://12thmanrising.com/2020/03/02/se ... nIgyT0KdS0

He is a great talent and certainly would help our pass-rush. He is a different player than Clowney though. Ngakoue is a perfect Leo (which PC said last week that the team is looking for). Pairing him with Clowney would be Awesome, though. Of course putting 45 million into two non-quarterback positions wouldn't be awesome so I agree with you it would be one or the other. In the end Clowney costs less (wouldn't have to give up draft capital for him) and has a skillset that is harder to replace than a guy like Ngakoue, IMO. Don't get me wrong he's an amazing young talent but Clowney with a guy like Fowler (or trading for a guy like Von Miller) would be my ideal scenario at the DE positions, although I would be very happy if we were able to trade for Ngakoue and sign a guy like Everson Griffen. The problem is that Griffen is 33. Clowney and Fowler are both just entering their prime.

[NorthHawk]

He might be a good fit for us. At this point anyone who can rush the passer would be a fit.
I would also expect us to sign some players on 1 year prove it deals - I'm thinking of Vic Beasley who
was not re-signed by the Falcons. He had a pretty good year a couple of years ago but seems to
have lost his mojo. Pete seems to like reclamation projects and Beasley might fit what we want
to do. And he wouldn't be that expensive, either.

[c_hawkbob]

If he's complimentary I'm all for it, if it's either/or I'd rather keep Clowney.

[mykc14]

He might be a good fit for us. At this point anyone who can rush the passer would be a fit.
I would also expect us to sign some players on 1 year prove it deals - I'm thinking of Vic Beasley who
was not re-signed by the Falcons. He had a pretty good year a couple of years ago but seems to
have lost his mojo. Pete seems to like reclamation projects and Beasley might fit what we want
to do. And he wouldn't be that expensive, either.

I don't mind us taking a look at Beasley, but I don't think its a good idea to sign him this offseason with the thought that he will be our starting Leo next year. I think we need to resign Clowney AND get an established Leo. Beasley has the potential to be a Leo, he ticks off all of the boxes, but we can't be a in a position where we are relying on a reclamation project at a key pass-rushing position. For me trading for a guy like Von Miller, Ngakoe, or signing a guy like Fowler is a good way to fix this pass-rush. After, of course, resigning Clowney!

[RiverDog]

If he's complimentary I'm all for it, if it's either/or I'd rather keep Clowney.

Yea, me, too. IMO it's pretty unlikely that we'd do both as I can't see spending $45M on two DL's when we have issues to address at other positions, like RT, so if it's either/or, the fact that we'd have to give up some significant resources to obtain Ngakoue would almost have to tip the scales towards Clowney.

But if things break down with Clowney, a move like this would be a good alternative.

[NorthHawk]

I keep hearing people in the media saying we won’t re-sign Clowney.
I don’t know where they are getting their info from, but they seem quite
convinced he’ll be gone.

[mykc14]

After reading some stuff about Ngakoue I don't think he is a guy that we would seriously entertain trading for. The Hawks have certain measurements that they rarely overlook, even for good players, and he falls short on a few of those measurements. Combine that with the fact that although he certainly is a very good pass-rusher for his age he hasn't produced at an elite level yet (8, 12.5, 9.5, 8 sacks in his 4 years). When you look at things like pass-rush win rate and things like that he isn't a top 10 guy. He isn't double teamed alot, but played on a DL where guys were double teamed a lot. In other words, he was given a lot of opportunities to win a one-on-one battle and he just didn't produce at an elite level. That's not to say he won't. He is only 24 and has a lot of room to grow, but if he doesn't check off on the Hawks key measurable and isn't winning at a consistent rate I would think that he's not really on the Hawks radar, but who knows he definitely is intriguing and he is elite when you look at his sack by age ranking in NFL history, 37.5 career stats and he isn't even 25 yet!!! That is major production, but not Donald/Watt/Von Miller/Kalil Mack type of production. It is slightly better than Frank Clark who did check off on all of the Hawks measurables, but they still weren't willing to pay him over 20 mil/year so It seems far fetched they would sign Ngakoue for more than they would have given Clark.

On another note- I plug this blog a lot but it is really good- this is where I got some of the information about Ngakoue's measurables... If you don't frequent this website come draft season you really are missing out!!!!

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/

[RiverDog]

Good observations, mykc, and thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

[mykc14]

Good observations, mykc, and thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

No problem. Hopefully you enjoy. He has a ton of content and does a lot research.

[NorthHawk]

There's a difference between measureables in draft choices and players proven to be able to produce.
I don't think the height/arm length, etc. holds as much water for Yannick Ngakoue as it would if he
was in the draft.

[govandals]

After reading some stuff about Ngakoue I don't think he is a guy that we would seriously entertain trading for. The Hawks have certain measurements that they rarely overlook, even for good players, and he falls short on a few of those measurements. Combine that with the fact that although he certainly is a very good pass-rusher for his age he hasn't produced at an elite level yet (8, 12.5, 9.5, 8 sacks in his 4 years). When you look at things like pass-rush win rate and things like that he isn't a top 10 guy. He isn't double teamed alot, but played on a DL where guys were double teamed a lot. In other words, he was given a lot of opportunities to win a one-on-one battle and he just didn't produce at an elite level. That's not to say he won't. He is only 24 and has a lot of room to grow, but if he doesn't check off on the Hawks key measurable and isn't winning at a consistent rate I would think that he's not really on the Hawks radar, but who knows he definitely is intriguing and he is elite when you look at his sack by age ranking in NFL history, 37.5 career stats and he isn't even 25 yet!!! That is major production, but not Donald/Watt/Von Miller/Kalil Mack type of production. It is slightly better than Frank Clark who did check off on all of the Hawks measurables, but they still weren't willing to pay him over 20 mil/year so It seems far fetched they would sign Ngakoue for more than they would have given Clark.

On another note- I plug this blog a lot but it is really good- this is where I got some of the information about Ngakoue's measurables... If you don't frequent this website come draft season you really are missing out!!!!

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/

Excellent post. Sums up exactly how I feel about Ngakoue. He is a very good player, not elite and not the game wrecker Clowney is.
Regarding SDB, Rob Staton runs that blog. He is crazy dedicated, I can't imagine the hours and hours he must spend on it. Best Seahawks site bar none. I go there everyday, I don't post because Rob can get a little chippy if you don't agree with him. lol

[NorthHawk]

I go to SDB quite often. I don't always agree with his PoV, but it often makes me think.
There are some knowledgeable posters there, too who have some insights into some
of the College players which helps at this time of year. What I find, though is Rob
becomes a sort of Pied Piper in that he gets a following for his views and for potential
draftees for us that our FO might not agree with. Then some of them get disappointed
that the Hawks passed them over.

[RiverDog]

On another note- I plug this blog a lot but it is really good- this is where I got some of the information about Ngakoue's measurables... If you don't frequent this website come draft season you really are missing out!!!!

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/

I just read your link. Excellent information, and I now have it bookmarked. Thanks again for the tip!

[mykc14]

I go to SDB quite often. I don't always agree with his PoV, but it often makes me think.
There are some knowledgeable posters there, too who have some insights into some
of the College players which helps at this time of year. What I find, though is Rob
becomes a sort of Pied Piper in that he gets a following for his views and for potential
draftees for us that our FO might not agree with. Then some of them get disappointed
that the Hawks passed them over.

Yeah I have noticed the same thing. Not a place to go and have your opinions discussed in an objective way.

[mykc14]

I just read your link. Excellent information, and I now have it bookmarked. Thanks again for the tip!

No problem, glad you enjoyed it!

[RiverDog]

It is a pretty pathetic group when you look at the edge rushers at the combine. Here's to hoping they make a good free agent signing, or a trade to get a rusher. And, while there seems to be a good crop of defensive tackles, there does not seem to be much pass rush in that group either.

Holy chit, an ObS sighting! It's really great to see you, my friend!

[c_hawkbob]

Nice to see you back Old Man!

I think the answer is hanging on to Clowney and hoping add in the draft. I linked a highlight reel od Penn State's Gross-Matos who, while he may need some polish, has a Pete Carroll motor and some real potential IMO. He's also a possibility to be there when we draft.

[mykc14]

The draft blog mentioned has a short highlight film that he posted a day or so ago. While I am not a big Ngakoue fan, the highlights look good and I can see the appeal.

It is a pretty pathetic group when you look at the edge rushers at the combine. Here's to hoping they make a good free agent signing, or a trade to get a rusher. And, while there seems to be a good crop of defensive tackles, there does not seem to be much pass rush in that group either.

Yeah, as far as depth goes this might be the worst looking pass-rush class in a long time, which is bad news for us even if we weren't planning on drafting a pass-rusher. It creates more demand for the Free Agent pass-rushers, which as we all know, drives up the price. Despite that I really see us trying to get two veterans this year at the DE positions. I feel like we are going to do whatever we can to sign Clowney and add a LEO. My hope has always been Clowney and Fowler, but this weak draft class might drive his price too high. Part of me thinks the talk about the Hawks being interested in Ngakoue is a negotiation tactic directed at Clowney. I think they know Clowney wants to be here and his camp has been throwing stuff out there- that he's interested in joining the Giants, that he wants to be paid $25 mil, etc- to get us to increase our initial offer. Who knows for sure but maybe this Ngakoue talk is just a little posturing on our part.