So What's Up With Penny?

[RiverDog]

He had 8 carries for 55 yards against Atlanta, ironically just before the trading deadline. In the two games since, he's had just 6 carries for a paltry 14 yards and no pass receptions. Indeed, he hasn't had a single pass reception since the Rams game on Oct. 3rd back in Week 5. He was supposed to be a change up running back, giving workhorse Chris Carson a chance to catch his breath, but for some reason, his use has been very limited.

Were we simply trying to feature him in the Atlanta game so as to foster interest in a trade? The rumor is that the Lions were interested but weren't willing to go any higher than a 3rd round draft pick.

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/11/seattl ... aad-penny/

Are we going to regret not cutting bait and get something for this guy or will he some day blossom and show us that he was worth the first round draft pick that we spent on him?

[Aseahawkfan]

Penney apparently doesn't have what it takes to make it at a high level in the NFL.

[trents]

There was talk this off season about Penny initially not having the maturity needed for a pro athlete, not embracing the regimens necessary to excel at the pro level, that kind of thing. Supposedly, that was changing but maybe there has be reversion. I had high hopes for him when drafted and there were moments last year when he showed real ability and promise. But nothing of late. Same with C.J. Procise. But Carson is a man!

Wish we still had Mike Davis. He was not that much of a drop off from Carson. And if Carson goes down we will be in a pickle, I have a feeling.

[RiverDog]

I never did like spending a high draft pick on a 2nd tier running back. Unless you have a chance to draft a truly gifted, accomplished athlete like a Barkley, McCaffery, or Elliott, backs that I would consider 1st tier, it's a waste of resources to spend a first round pick on a 2 down player.

The hope was that even with Carson getting the bulk of the work that Penny would develop into our change of pace/3rd down running back, but that doesn't seem to be happening, either. After he fumbled vs. the Niners, he never saw the ball the rest of the game, Pete's way of punishing a running back. In terms of draft capital, he's a very expensive insurance policy against Carson going down with an injury.

Although it's still early, we sure haven't been getting very much mileage out of our first round picks. LJ Collier hasn't done squat so far, either.

[trents]

And in the meantime, Carson's taking a lot of hand offs and a lot of pounding because there is not a productive sub to spell him.

But I'm not sure I would agree with your assessment of Penny being a "second tier back." His numbers were quite impressive at SDS and there's that speed. But admittedly, SDS doesn't play against a lot of top tier teams.

[RiverDog]

And in the meantime, Carson's taking a lot of hand offs and a lot of pounding because there is not a productive sub to spell him.

But I'm not sure I would agree with your assessment of Penny being a "second tier back." His numbers were quite impressive at SDS and there's that speed. But admittedly, SDS doesn't play against a lot of top tier teams.

The consensus on Penny prior to the 2018 draft was that he'd fall in the 2nd or 3rd round. None of the major mocks had him going in the first. His draft grade, as reported by NFL.com, was 5.85, with 4 running backs scoring higher. That's pretty much the textbook definition of a 2nd tier running back. He was a reach.

[NorthHawk]

I think the difference between Carson and Penny is pretty simple.
Penny needs a seam to burst through while Carson often creates his own.
Unfortunately, it means Carson will have a hard time lasting 16 games with
that style of running and will have a short career.

[RiverDog]

I think the difference between Carson and Penny is pretty simple. Penny needs a seam to burst through while Carson often creates his own. Unfortunately, it means Carson will have a hard time lasting 16 games with that style of running and will have a short career.

Not sure how much of a difference running style makes as far as making a player more susceptible to injuries. Beast wasn't anymore injury prone than any other running back, and no one had a more contact intensive running style than he did.

[idhawkman]

I like Penny. He tore up my Boise State Broncos when in college.

I am holding off judgement on Penny for this year until the year is over. One thing is for certain, He's a big back that delivers a punch with speed and most importantly, he's got fresh legs for the home stretch when defenders are all hurting in one way or another...

[Hawktawk]

I like Penny. He tore up my Boise State Broncos when in college.

I am holding off judgement on Penny for this year until the year is over. One thing is for certain, He's a big back that delivers a punch with speed and most importantly, he's got fresh legs for the home stretch when defenders are all hurting in one way or another...

To be fair to the guy he’s been a bit banged up at times , also sitting behind a really good top 10 type back. But he’s made a few plays that make my mouth drool. He’s got a top gear Carson doesn’t have. He’s not as elusive in tight spaces and not as powerful at breaking tackles so far. But he’s still one snap from starting and I think he would be fine with enough reps. God forbid. Worst thing that could happen is we keep him as insurance and part ways later. I think the kid can play.

[NorthHawk]

Not sure how much of a difference running style makes as far as making a player more susceptible to injuries. Beast wasn't anymore injury prone than any other running back, and no one had a more contact intensive running style than he did.

If you really watched Lynch when he played, he was rarely hit squarely. He was very subtle in traffic.
Carson is a different type of runner. It's almost like he looks for contact. Lynch didn't, but brought the
wood if he had to.
There's a reason Carson has never played a full year without injury. I hope he gets through this year
cleanly, but I think he's going to have a short career, like most RB's. If I were running the draft for
us, I would be looking for another 'hammer' at RB and have Penny as the change of pace back. Maybe
we have the next Carson already in Travis Homer, but he's a little smaller than Carson and Penny.

[RiverDog]

If you really watched Lynch when he played, he was rarely hit squarely. He was very subtle in traffic.
Carson is a different type of runner. It's almost like he looks for contact. Lynch didn't, but brought the wood if he had to.

There's a reason Carson has never played a full year without injury. I hope he gets through this year cleanly, but I think he's going to have a short career, like most RB's. If I were running the draft for us, I would be looking for another 'hammer' at RB and have Penny as the change of pace back. Maybe we have the next Carson already in Travis Homer, but he's a little smaller than Carson and Penny.

Perhaps. I've never seen any kind of studies done that relate injuries to running style or any other playing characteristic. Outside of players being out of shape or naturally injury prone and the positions they play, I get the impression that injuries are pretty much random events that can happen to any player. Sort of like swimming with sharks.

[Hawktawk]

If you really watched Lynch when he played, he was rarely hit squarely. He was very subtle in traffic.
Carson is a different type of runner. It's almost like he looks for contact. Lynch didn't, but brought the
wood if he had to.
There's a reason Carson has never played a full year without injury. I hope he gets through this year
cleanly, but I think he's going to have a short career, like most RB's. If I were running the draft for
us, I would be looking for another 'hammer' at RB and have Penny as the change of pace back. Maybe
we have the next Carson already in Travis Homer, but he's a little smaller than Carson and Penny.

I think you underestimate Carson’s ability to slip tackles in tight spaces. He runs higher than Lynch and with his legs not as wide but keeps his knees high and he’s got some efficient nifty moves. And one place he looks a lot like Lynch is pushing the pile. He’s the best at breaking tackles since beast . If it weren’t for the fumbling he would be one of the better backs in the league . If he weren’t on the team we wouldn’t be having a thread about Penney although it seems he’s been hurt more than Carson

[NorthHawk]

I'm not saying Carson isn't a good RB, but that his career will be short with the punishment he takes (and gives).

[Hawktawk]

I'm not saying Carson isn't a good RB, but that his career will be short with the punishment he takes (and gives).

His worst injury was getting his ankle caught under a pile . He’s definitely been dinged up so far in his career but you never know what might happen.

[jshawaii22]

and soon we'll be having this discussion about LJ Collier. He's rarely active on game day for a team that has major issues at the end position. Ziggy failing and LJ not a choice to replace him... Teams choice to go with a 220lb Griffin. How can a GM who's so damn good in the later rounds be so damn poor at the top?

[RiverDog]

and soon we'll be having this discussion about LJ Collier. He's rarely active on game day for a team that has major issues at the end position. Ziggy failing and LJ not a choice to replace him... Teams choice to go with a 220lb Griffin. How can a GM who's so damn good in the later rounds be so damn poor at the top?

And a defensive player as well, an area where Pete and John are supposed to have a special insight into players that fit their system.

Speaking of defensive end problems, Clowney is questionable tomorrow with a hip injury. If he can't go, it could be a long day for our secondary.

[NorthHawk]

It's pretty early to say Collier was a bad pick.
Missing any time in a players first TC and pre season is a huge blow to their development.
I didn't know much about him when we selected him, but in doing some research, he
might be like a Mike Bennett type of player who can play both inside and out once he gets
some time under his belt and the game starts to slow down for him. Because he missed so
much important time this year, we really won't see what we have until next year.

[c_hawkbob]

Collier still has a chance to make a difference this year as well. We should see him get some playing time tomorrow.

[RiverDog]

Very true regarding it being too early to pass judgement on Collier. We haven't even passed the 3/4 mark in his rookie season.

However, considering what we've yielded out of our top picks in recent years, you have to forgive fans for a collective "uh oh, here we go again!" attitude when they see yet another top pick not producing.

Just to be fair, we need to recognize that our much maligned #1 draft pick, Germain Ifedi, is having his best year since joining the team. Even his penalty count is down.

[obiken]

I'm not saying Carson isn't a good RB, but that his career will be short with the punishment he takes (and gives).

I am ready to say Penny is a mini-bust, if there is such a thing. I thought he was really going to have a great breakout year but no; now I am ready to move on.

[NorthHawk]

Very true regarding it being too early to pass judgement on Collier. We haven't even passed the 3/4 mark in his rookie season.

However, considering what we've yielded out of our top picks in recent years, you have to forgive fans for a collective "uh oh, here we go again!" attitude when they see yet another top pick not producing.

Just to be fair, we need to recognize that our much maligned #1 draft pick, Germain Ifedi, is having his best year since joining the team. Even his penalty count is down.

We can't use the same scale of development for OL like we used to 5 or 10 years ago. For the most part they just don't get the training and development in a pro style Offense.
With the exception of a few top players along the OL, most will take a few years to see what they have.
Maybe that's why JS went out and got Brown, Fluker and Iupati (last year it was Sweezy) to fill out the OL. Now that Ifedi has had a few years of proper coaching, he might
end up being a decent RT.

[RiverDog]

We can't use the same scale of development for OL like we used to 5 or 10 years ago. For the most part they just don't get the training and development in a pro style Offense. With the exception of a few top players along the OL, most will take a few years to see what they have.

Maybe that's why JS went out and got Brown, Fluker and Iupati (last year it was Sweezy) to fill out the OL. Now that Ifedi has had a few years of proper coaching, he might end up being a decent RT.

Except that he's probably going to end up being a decent RT for someone other than us. We didn't pick up his 5th year option, so more than likely, this will be his last season as a Hawk.

[NorthHawk]

Maybe not, but they may look at the market and think he’s worth more than what is available.
After all they have seen steady improvement and locking up a veteran for 4 or 5 years might
be attractive to them.
I’m not so sure that not picking up the 5th year option means a lot. It might have been more
of an indication of a Salary Cap in transition than not wanting to extend him. They had to
make some tough decisions and this might have been one of them.

[Hawktawk]

Speaking of defensive end problems, Clowney is questionable tomorrow with a hip injury. If he can't go, it could be a long day for our secondary.

Yes I had heard that. Questionable usually means he will play but we dont need to lose that big dude. If the defense can bring the energy and aggression they did against the 9ers every week this team could win it all.

[RiverDog]

Speaking of defensive end problems, Clowney is questionable tomorrow with a hip injury. If he can't go, it could be a long day for our secondary.

Yes I had heard that. Questionable usually means he will play but we dont need to lose that big dude. If the defense can bring the energy and aggression they did against the 9ers every week this team could win it all.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Apparently Clowney didn't practice at all this week and Pete says it's going to be a game time decision.

Clowney is inactive today. Hope you didn't try to hold your breath!

[RiverDog]

Maybe not, but they may look at the market and think he’s worth more than what is available. After all they have seen steady improvement and locking up a veteran for 4 or 5 years might be attractive to them.

I’m not so sure that not picking up the 5th year option means a lot. It might have been more of an indication of a Salary Cap in transition than not wanting to extend him. They had to make some tough decisions and this might have been one of them.

Have we ever re-signed a player whose option we didn't pick up the previous year?

For the first time in over a decade, we have some pretty decent depth on the offensive line. With Russell and Bobby resigned to big contracts and with a potentially big contract waiting for Clowney, we're going to have to economize somewhere, and Pete's never been known to spend a bunch of money on the offensive line. My guess is that we let Ifedi walk.

[NorthHawk]

We’re probably going to let Iupati go, or maybe even Fluker (less likely) when Haynes is ready, and Jones looked good at G, so that will impact depth. i doubt they want to go on another years long development project or search after finally stabilizing the line. even average OT’s are hard to get these days, and a good young one even harder.
It’s going to be a hard decision for them this off season.

[RiverDog]

We’re probably going to let Iupati go, or maybe even Fluker (less likely) when Haynes is ready, and Jones looked good at G, so that will impact depth. i doubt they want to go on another years long development project or search after finally stabilizing the line. even average OT’s are hard to get these days, and a good young one even harder.
It’s going to be a hard decision for them this off season.

Yea, we'll see. A lot will depend on what happens with Clowney. I'm just looking at Pete's past decisions to cut corners on the OL, but who knows, maybe he's changed. You were right about Ifedi, he's improved a lot.

[jshawaii22]

Well, well, well.... today he's saving the game for the Seahawks and looks like a professional RB doing it. Other then Penny, the entire offense is offensively bad.

Duane Brown goes off on the team and they deserved it. 10 pre-snap penalties so far. Luckily the Eagles have so many injuries to their best players, it's making our D look good.

[curmudgeon]

Chris. Carson.Has.To.Go......

[trents]

Why didn't Clowney play today?

I will say this about Carson v. Penny: They would have caught up with Carson on that long touchdown run. And did you see Penny throw off that last would be tackler? That was an impressive run. Now only if he can use that performance as a spring board.

[RiverDog]

Clowney was inactive due to a hip injury.

The 2nd fumble Carson made wasn't necessarily his fault. He wasn't expecting it, and Russell didn't get it into his breadbasket. Hard to blame either player until we hear more from Pete. It was some sort of mixup vs. a physical mistake.

The offense did play poorly. Metcalf dropped a couple passes, including what would have been a TD, Russell had an uncharacteristic interception and overthrew at least one big play to Metcalf, and the penalties...ugh. Good on Duane Brown for going off on a rant. He's a team leader, and that was a God awful performance. I don't think Joey Hunt is the answer. We've given up 11 sacks in the last 2 games, 14 in the last 3 since Hunt became our starter.

But the story of the game was the defense. It's the second game in a row where they had a solid game, and they did it without Clowney. Best game of the year for the secondary, and not just the interceptions. No big breakdowns. Nice to see the D come through when the offense was struggling.

Finally, we win a game by more than a touchdown.

[obiken]

We should have won this by a boatload though River. We had so many penalties in the 2nd half, and couldn't put them away. No win is ugly but man, I would pay big money as a fan for our team to have a killer instinct. On to the Cheerleader side of me, I would have never predicted 9-2. SF almost has to win Monday given their schedule.

[Aseahawkfan]

Minny next week going to be a much tougher test with playoff implications. That game going to be a brawl. Then the Rams on a short week. At least a night game though right now.

[RiverDog]

We should have won this by a boatload though River. We had so many penalties in the 2nd half, and couldn't put them away. No win is ugly but man, I would pay big money as a fan for our team to have a killer instinct. On to the Cheerleader side of me, I would have never predicted 9-2. SF almost has to win Monday given their schedule.

Yea, we keep ragging on how bad we look, but we're still 9-2.

We're in a nice spot for tonight's Packers-Niners game on SNF, as it's a win-win. If the Packers win, then we're tied for the division lead, and the Niners have some pretty tough games before they get to us at the end of next month It puts us in the driver's seat for the division title. But if the Niners win, it puts us in the position of gaining not only the division title, but at least a first round bye if we were to run the table. A tie would be the best of both worlds.

[c_hawkbob]

how much we win by is totally irrelevant, unless you're betting the spread.

[obiken]

Yeah okay, I am sorry, I would just like to see a little Secretariat, than Seattle Slew, but both won the Triple Crown!

[RiverDog]

how much we win by is totally irrelevant, unless you're betting the spread.

Not if you're trying to keep your blood pressure down.

[jshawaii22]

I really would prefer that the 49ers beat the Packers tonight. If the Packers win, they would have home-field over us, even if we beat the 49ers at the end of the year and we would be the #3 seed, and have to play a wildcard game.
If the 49ers win, we stay as the wildcard for now, and when we beat them again, we would become the #2 seed, which, of course, assumes all four of the teams win out until that rematch at the end of the year.
Under that scenario, we would be the #2 seed, defeating the 49ers again, with a bye week with only the Saints having the upper hand on us, and we can't do anything about that.