Ravens Game

[obiken]

We made a lot of good plays, but we lost this in the 3rd Quarter when we drove down and instead of running the ball Shotty calls a Sideline pass to Lockett and he gets stopped. They drove right down and scored we were sucking air from then on. No doubt the Turn overs played a role but you run until you can't, running against the Ravens was not that hard. I had this penciled as a win, damn it!!

[c_hawkbob]

The Ravens won all 3 phases today. Russ got outplayed by his counterpart as well. We're not as good as advertised, at least not at this point of the season.

[Aseahawkfan]

Defense giving up 25 points a game now or more. Worst defense of the Carroll Era. Offense tacked on 14 of those points, but damn, we are not good. Nearly 200 yards rushing against our defense. We are smoke and mirrors at this point requiring Russell to play nearly perfect or we're done.

[Stream Hawk]

Close. Actually it is the worst defense of the Russell Wilson/Pete Carroll era. The 2010 D was pretty bad. The saddest part about our defense is the inability to generate a pass rush it’s pathetic. And every team knows the way to beat us is to get rid of all quickly. I had a bad feeling about this game because Lamar is so damn quick. We looked atrocious trying to stop him.

Edit. I think we better make a major trade this week to salvage the season. Salvage meaning a chance at SuperBowl; not just 10-6. Damn Marcus peters would’ve been perfect. Our cornerbacks have no ball Hawking ability. So either a CB1 or OJ Howard

[yoder]

Just heard from a friend who attended the game, he mentioned that the Russ pick completely took the energy out of the team/crowd/spirit/whatever. Not saying that an interception can ruin a game, but that could have been the momentum shift. The Metcalf fumble was the nail in the coffin.

[trents]

Lamar Jackson killed us with his feet today but that's what he does to every team. We wiffed on some tackles, too.

Why we are not getting more pressure on opposing quarterbacks with DE's like Clowney and Anseh still baffles me. Are they past their prime or is it more of a problem on the back end with our cover guys not holding coverage long enough to give the defensive line time to get to the quarterback? No more ET, no more Cam C, No more Sherman. Those days are gone.

I also think losing Dissley hurts us more than a lot of people realize. And we could have used big play Baldwin today.

The Ravens are an impressive team on the rise. They can hurt you in a lot of ways and Petersen was a great addition.

[obiken]

Close. Actually it is the worst defense of the Russell Wilson/Pete Carroll era. The 2010 D was pretty bad. The saddest part about our defense is the inability to generate a pass rush it’s pathetic. And every team knows the way to beat us is to get rid of all quickly. I had a bad feeling about this game because Lamar is so damn quick. We looked atrocious trying to stop him.
Edit. I think we better make a major trade this week to salvage the season. Salvage meaning a chance at SuperBowl; not just 10-6. Damn Marcus peters would’ve been perfect. Our cornerbacks have no ball Hawking ability. So either a CB1 or OJ Howard

Yeah I thought Clowney would help, but I am starting to realize why we got him so cheap. Lot of FB to be played, but I was always one of those that thought our OLine was overrated. I still think we should have run the ball more. You guys are starting to sound like me, and I am starting to sound like you guys. I would be the first to admit after beating the Rams, I probably drank too much of the Pollyannish Kool-Aid! We'll see.

[RiverDog]

Just heard from a friend who attended the game, he mentioned that the Russ pick completely took the energy out of the team/crowd/spirit/whatever. Not saying that an interception can ruin a game, but that could have been the momentum shift. The Metcalf fumble was the nail in the coffin.

I was at the game, too, but I didn't detect the same sentiment as your friend did. Of course, at that particular moment, it sucked the air out of the crowd, but it still got plenty loud in the 2nd half. We had a bad omen before the game as the power was out in the block to the immediate west of the stadium, my favorite pregame hangouts, and although they were still serving, there was no TV broadcast of the early games.

That pick 6 was the worst throw/decision Russell's made since last year's Vikings game. The play came right at us, and we could see the DB break on the ball. Had Russ given him a pump fake, it might have been 6 the other way.

Today was a combination of things. The defense played well enough to win but it's not the shut down type defense we've been used to in the past, didn't create any turnovers. On the other hand, not too many teams will win a game when their offense gives up 14 points. Russell played rather poorly, looked slow of foot, but perhaps that's because he was contrasted with a younger opposing QB. And I swear, he does not play well in inclement weather. It was a poor decision to let Meyers attempt a 50+ yard FG at sea level on a cold, damp day, giving the Ravens a short field and set up their only TD drive of the game.

It was a bad loss but not the end of the season.

[Hawktawk]

I was at the game, too, but I didn't detect the same sentiment as your friend did. Of course, at that particular moment, it sucked the air out of the crowd, but it still got plenty loud in the 2nd half. We had a bad omen before the game as the power was out in the block to the immediate west of the stadium, my favorite pregame hangouts, and although they were still serving, there was no TV broadcast of the early games.

That pick 6 was the worst throw/decision Russell's made since last year's Vikings game. The play came right at us, and we could see the DB break on the ball. Had Russ given him a pump fake, it might have been 6 the other way.

Today was a combination of things. The defense played well enough to win but it's not the shut down type defense we've been used to in the past, didn't create any turnovers. On the other hand, not too many teams will win a game when their offense gives up 14 points. Russell played rather poorly, looked slow of foot, but perhaps that's because he was contrasted with a younger opposing QB. And I swear, he does not play well in inclement weather. It was a poor decision to let Meyers attempt a 50+ yard FG at sea level on a cold, damp day, giving the Ravens a short field and set up their only TD drive of the game.

It was a bad loss but not the end of the season.

I worried about Peters from the moment he was traded to the Ravens. I worried about the type of education beyond film study ET could give that defense. All my nightmares came true. I knew there was no way Russ could play 16 games like he had the first 6 and let's face it, without him playing incredible this team is probably 2-5. Their QB scared the hell out of me before the game ever started and he was better than advertised. Its nauseating watching this team attempt to play defense in critical situations after the way we were spoiled for years. Its frustrating watching PC make decisions like going for a 50+ yard FG when I knew and pretty much everyone knew a mediocre kicker was likely to have another miss.

But when I break it all down its giving up 14 points on offense that's the math between winning and maybe losing but at least being in the game. It was a lot like the other loss to the Saints. How many ways can you F#@K this up???

Metcalf regressed, Russ had his worst game in a long time and probably took himself out of the mvp discussion. Watching the 9ers gut it out on a terrible field to go 6-0 they are clearly the class of the division. But if I had been told at the beginning of the season we would be sitting at 5-2 7 games in Id take it. Were going to go play a really bad Atlanta team possibly minus Matt Ryan then coming home for a mediocre Tampa Bay team. We will know a lot more about this team then but right now they are playoff road kill, not a contender unless the QB is perfect every game.

[RiverDog]

I worried about Peters from the moment he was traded to the Ravens. I worried about the type of education beyond film study ET could give that defense. All my nightmares came true. I knew there was no way Russ could play 16 games like he had the first 6 and let's face it, without him playing incredible this team is probably 2-5. Their QB scared the hell out of me before the game ever started and he was better than advertised. Its nauseating watching this team attempt to play defense in critical situations after the way we were spoiled for years. Its frustrating watching PC make decisions like going for a 50+ yard FG when I knew and pretty much everyone knew a mediocre kicker was likely to have another miss.

But when I break it all down its giving up 14 points on offense that's the math between winning and maybe losing but at least being in the game. It was a lot like the other loss to the Saints. How many ways can you F#@K this up???

Metcalf regressed, Russ had his worst game in a long time and probably took himself out of the mvp discussion. Watching the 9ers gut it out on a terrible field to go 6-0 they are clearly the class of the division. But if I had been told at the beginning of the season we would be sitting at 5-2 7 games in Id take it. Were going to go play a really bad Atlanta team possibly minus Matt Ryan then coming home for a mediocre Tampa Bay team. We will know a lot more about this team then but right now they are playoff road kill, not a contender unless the QB is perfect every game.

I said I'd be happy with 5-3 at the halfway point, so if we win next week, we should be OK. Losing that game doesn't hurt us in the tiebreaker scenarios. Hopefully when Reed gets back up to full speed our pass rush will improve, but right now, we're not getting near the pressure we need to keep from exposing a very suspect secondary that's still learning.

Despite their undefeated record, the 49'ers are still pretty untested and they've played one fewer game than the rest of the division but clearly, they've set themselves up as the team to beat. They have a tough 2nd half of their season, including a Week 17 game in our house.

[Hawktawk]

There’s nothing tough about “our house” anymore . The hawks have played by far their 2 worst games of the year there. Our home record is mediocre for years now. And as you said Russ is highly overrated in bad weather. One thing I noticed is how our lack of separation from our receivers coupled with very physical borderline illegal coverage really held the team back offensively .

[RiverDog]

There’s nothing tough about “our house” anymore . The hawks have played by far their 2 worst games of the year there. Our home record is mediocre for years now. And as you said Russ is highly overrated in bad weather. One thing I noticed is how our lack of separation from our receivers coupled with very physical borderline illegal coverage really held the team back offensively .

All true. One of the things that made our place a house of horrors was that it was combined with the best defense in the league. It gave our pass rushers an extra half step and caused lots of false starts as linemen knew they had to get off the ball quickly. Offensive linemen are no longer preoccupied with the likes of Bennett and Avril.

[obiken]

River I think we are an average team and I think we all drank the Kool-Aid even you and I to a certain extent. You cannot get blown out 2X at home, in the same season and win the Division. I mean I will cheer and hope but our priority next year has to be a DT. LJ just ran straight up the middle on us.

[RiverDog]

River I think we are an average team and I think we all drank the Kool-Aid even you and I to a certain extent. You cannot get blown out 2X at home, in the same season and win the Division. I mean I will cheer and hope but our priority next year has to be a DT. LJ just ran straight up the middle on us.

At this point, I tend to agree with you. We look more like a .500ish team than we do a SB contender.

But the season is fluid. The team we saw yesterday might not be the same team we'll be watching in December.

Take a look at the Cowboys. They looked to be left for dead last week after losing 3 straight, the last one to the lowly Jets, but they rebound and look like SB contenders in kicking the beejezus out of a solid team in the Eagles.

[obiken]

At this point, I tend to agree with you. We look more like a .500ish team than we do a SB contender.

But the season is fluid. The team we saw yesterday might not be the same team we'll be watching in December.

Take a look at the Cowboys. They looked to be left for dead last week after losing 3 straight, the last one to the lowly Jets, but they rebound and look like SB contenders in kicking the beejezus out of a solid team in the Eagles.

Yes but, the Cowboys had both Tackles injured and they have all the pieces in place. Amari, Zeke, Dak, a good TE. WE just have RW. WE are playing in a division with the 9ers who could be 9-0 by the time we play them in Nov. I dont know Riv, its been a hell of a run. You, HS, Bob, and Yoder, may have to take a vote and decide that new great season reality, may be just making the playoffs every year. For me its winning the Division.

[Hawktawk]

We’re 5-2. We control our destiny against everyone except the Saints. The sky is still aloft . Don’t underestimate the talent of Jackson . Even after Russ’s pick 6 we had a tie game and that beast killed us dead with guys in a position to make plays. He is one of the fastest guys in the league and unlike Vick he’s got the size to break tackles and deliver punishment. I’ve never seen a guy like that . We didn’t game plan him worth a damn but look at those stats all year he’s giving everyone trouble. As Aaron Rodgers said a few years ago everyone needs to relax.

[RiverDog]

We’re 5-2. We control our destiny against everyone except the Saints. The sky is still aloft . Don’t underestimate the talent of Jackson . Even after Russ’s pick 6 we had a tie game and that beast killed us dead with guys in a position to make plays. He is one of the fastest guys in the league and unlike Vick he’s got the size to break tackles and deliver punishment. I’ve never seen a guy like that . We didn’t game plan him worth a damn but look at those stats all year he’s giving everyone trouble. As Aaron Rodgers said a few years ago everyone needs to relax.

The Packers are 6-1 and we don't play them.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah I didn’t research that very well. They may well be the team to beat in the playoffs . I thought we played them.

[RiverDog]

Don’t underestimate the talent of Jackson . Even after Russ’s pick 6 we had a tie game and that beast killed us dead with guys in a position to make plays. He is one of the fastest guys in the league and unlike Vick he’s got the size to break tackles and deliver punishment. I’ve never seen a guy like that . We didn’t game plan him worth a damn but look at those stats all year he’s giving everyone trouble. As Aaron Rodgers said a few years ago everyone needs to relax.

The Packers are 6-1 and we don't play them.[/quote]

I wasn't all that impressed with Jackson, at least not as much as some. It was a lot like what some had predicted, ie Colin Kaepernick 2.0. His passing efficiency left a lot to be desired. Granted, he had a few dropped passes, but when you look at his stats, he was 9 for 20 for just 143 yards and no touchdowns. Their only TD drive was aided by Pete's stupid decision to attempt a 53 yard field goal, giving them a short field. The key was turnovers, the two that we gave up and the ones our defense failed to get.

[RiverDog]

Don’t underestimate the talent of Jackson . Even after Russ’s pick 6 we had a tie game and that beast killed us dead with guys in a position to make plays. He is one of the fastest guys in the league and unlike Vick he’s got the size to break tackles and deliver punishment. I’ve never seen a guy like that . We didn’t game plan him worth a damn but look at those stats all year he’s giving everyone trouble. As Aaron Rodgers said a few years ago everyone needs to relax.

I wasn't all that impressed with Jackson, at least not as much as some. It was a lot like what some had predicted, ie Colin Kaepernick 2.0. His passing efficiency left a lot to be desired. Granted, he had a few dropped passes, but when you look at his stats, he was 9 for 20 for just 143 yards and no touchdowns. Their only TD drive was aided by Pete's stupid decision to attempt a 53 yard field goal, giving them a short field. The key was turnovers, the two that we gave up and the ones our defense failed to get.

[Hawktawk]

The guy is very mediocre as a passer. I’m referring to his running ability, his speed and his elusiveness. He killed us in huge situations. On the 3rd and long I told my kid before the snap the guy is gonna take off and sure enough 37 or whatever yards later wtf. On the 4th down call everyone knew he was getting the ball and he still scored. If I had to devise a game plan for that guy it would be rush 3, have everyone stay in their lanes and be disciplined and force him to throw. Although he threw something like 4 or 5 td passes in a game early in the season .As it was he rushed for over 100 yards for the second week in a row becoming the first man in history to do so from the position. You were there so I respect your perspective but I think the guys going to be a handful for a long time . I guess there were enough ravens fans there were MVP chants breaking out.

[RiverDog]

The guy is very mediocre as a passer. I’m referring to his running ability, his speed and his elusiveness. He killed us in huge situations. On the 3rd and long I told my kid before the snap the guy is gonna take off and sure enough 37 or whatever yards later wtf. On the 4th down call everyone knew he was getting the ball and he still scored. If I had to devise a game plan for that guy it would be rush 3, have everyone stay in their lanes and be disciplined and force him to throw. Although he threw something like 4 or 5 td passes in a game early in the season .As it was he rushed for over 100 yards for the second week in a row becoming the first man in history to do so from the position. You were there so I respect your perspective but I think the guys going to be a handful for a long time . I guess there were enough ravens fans there were MVP chants breaking out.

The MVP chants were directed at mocking Russell Wilson, and I suppose he deserved it. That was not an MVP-like performance. It's not going to hurt us for that talk to wane a little bit.

On one third down play after Jackson had killed us on several others, I watched to see if we had a 'spy' on him, and we did, none other than Bobby Wagner. On that particular play, Jackson beat Bobby and got his needed 10-15 yards.

But unless Jackson improves as a passer, the same thing will happen to him that happened to RG3, Kaepernick, and a whole host of running quarterbacks that couldn't pass effectively. The reason Russell has been successful is because he's an accurate passer and does not have a run-first mentality when plays break down (Obi you'll recall that I was critical about Jake Locker having this attribute during his college days).

[obiken]

I agree River but I was impressed with his speed. He is faster that Vick, Kapper, and RG3. When the guys after the game all start talking about the same thing, you know its true. No question, one good blindslide hit from a LB that he doesnt see coming, and its over. I dont wish for or want that, but its coming.

[RiverDog]

I agree River but I was impressed with his speed. He is faster that Vick, Kapper, and RG3. When the guys after the game all start talking about the same thing, you know its true. No question, one good blindslide hit from a LB that he doesnt see coming, and its over. I dont wish for or want that, but its coming.

Obi my point is that if Jackson is going to have a long career, he's going to have to develop his traditional quarterbacking skills. Not only do they lose a step as they age, but defenses start to figure them out and do a better job of identifying tendencies and stopping their one dimension. Even in surrendering as many rushing yards and 3rd down scampers to their QB, our defense did a fair job of stopping Baltimore's offense.

You have to measure Baltimore's offense, and Jackson's position as quarterback, by their total productivity, not just his individual stats. Take a look at the team stats: We had more total yards (347-340), ran more plays (68-56), were better on 3rd down (10-17 vs 5-13), and scored the same number of points (16). You're not going to win very many football games if your quarterback/offense put up 16 points. That game was decided on turnovers. Period.

[obiken]

River, no question he is a good player but we will see in 2 weeks in Baltimore against the Pats. IF the Pats win that game along with adding Sanu, my original prediction might just happen. In any case the AFC will be wrapped up, no one can go into Fox borough in 9 degrees and beat the Pats. That leaves the Packers or the Saints as the only outliers who can beat them, and they only have to face one in the big calunga. Niners are good but barring injury the field I think is set.

[jshawaii22]

Yup, the kid is damn good and so is their whole team and their coach. Although it doesn't make our loss to the Ravens any easier to take, watching Brady on the sidelines and seeing them go down sure makes it seem that way.

After tonight, I'd rather face Brady in the SB... if it comes to that.

[trents]

One of the things that makes the Ravens so tough is that Jackson plays like a dual threat college quarterback. But one wonders how long L. Jackson can play like that before he either succumbs to injury or loses a step. It strikes me that a team whose success depends on the quarterback contributing a lot of running yards will be looking for another way to win before long. I note how R. Wilson has cut way back on the number of RPO's and designed run plays where he calls his own number since his first couple of years.

[jshawaii22]

You mean they should watch film of RGIII right about now? Oh wait, he's their BU QB! they can just look at the scars on his knees from the operations he's had.
Remember the playoff game against the Seahawks where he got hurt it was Kurt Cousins that took his place. With RGIII in, I think we were down by 10 or more and he was killing us. Once Kurt came in we blew The 'Skins out. Wasn't that pretty much RGIII's last game as a 'headline' starter?

[Aseahawkfan]

Weird season.

[Hawktawk]

Lamar Jackson isn't put together like RG3 or one of the other running QBs. He's a big, solid athletic dude. I think he can go along quite a while playing the type of game he plays without getting hurt. Ravens are a tough riddle to solve.

[obiken]

Lamar Jackson isn't put together like RG3 or one of the other running QBs. He's a big, solid athletic dude. I think he can go along quite a while playing the type of game he plays without getting hurt. Ravens are a tough riddle to solve.

Its all fun and games till he is blindsided by a 6-3 240 pound LB that loves to hit Running QB's. The concern I would have IF I was a Ravens fan, is that he runs all time. That is a asking for trouble. Sad thing, is it will come against a bad team with nothing to lose, selling out just to stop him. Its a helluva show till that happens however.

[RiverDog]

Lamar Jackson isn't put together like RG3 or one of the other running QBs. He's a big, solid athletic dude. I think he can go along quite a while playing the type of game he plays without getting hurt. Ravens are a tough riddle to solve.

I'm in Las Vegas, and yesterday while watching the Panthers-Titans game with several other patrons of a sports bar, we were discussing how Carolina was going to burn out using Cristian McCaffery as much as they do. I said that McCaffery had a frame, similar to Russell's, that allows him to take more abuse and avoid injury. Well, about that time, McCaffery goes on a long TD run and comes up lame and didn't play another down the rest of the game. It sure made me look stupid.

Body shape and fitness doesn't make you immune from injury. It does help some that Jackson enjoys some protections by virtue of the position he plays, but nevertheless, they're still play a game of Russian roulette by calling his number as much as they do.

At this point of his career, Jackson is nothing more than Michael Vick 2.0. He's an athletic, elusive quarterback that has wide receiver attributes, but he's not that accurate of a passer and will need to develop traditional quarterbacking skills if he is to have a long, productive career.

That's the biggest difference between Jackson and Russell. RW has always had an accurate arm. Jackson doesn't.

[Hawktawk]

Jackson doesn't run like a QB as much as like a superstar RB or Wideout. He attacks defenders and deals the blow. He's really well put together. As for the arm he's had some big days throwing the ball this year but 250 yards of offense with 125 rush and pass is more devastating to defend than all through the air IMO. I'm a fan of the kid unless we see them in the SB..

[jshawaii22]

what that 125 yards gave them was ball control that would be the envy of most of the league. Long, sustained drives with a lot of first downs and running of the clock. That's a blueprint to beat any team, it just happened to be the Patriots.

[Hawktawk]

There’s a lot of talk about Jackson not throwing the ball well but I noticed he may have had meager stats Sunday but he completed balls to TEN different receivers. I think they are running exactly the offense they want to because they can, not because they have to. Seeing how it scored 37 points against a team that was giving up 8 or something hard to disagree.

[idhawkman]

Lamar Jackson isn't put together like RG3 or one of the other running QBs. He's a big, solid athletic dude. I think he can go along quite a while playing the type of game he plays without getting hurt. Ravens are a tough riddle to solve.

Cam Newton wasn't RGIII like either but look what's happened to him because of all the running. They flashed one year and got to the SB but then... (PacMan Ghost encounter sound goes here)

[RiverDog]

Lamar Jackson isn't put together like RG3 or one of the other running QBs. He's a big, solid athletic dude. I think he can go along quite a while playing the type of game he plays without getting hurt. Ravens are a tough riddle to solve.

Cam Newton wasn't RGIII like either but look what's happened to him because of all the running. They flashed one year and got to the SB but then... (PacMan Ghost encounter sound goes here)

You could say the same thing about Matt Ryan except that it doesn't fit the narrative.

But I like the analogy between Cam and Jackson. Cam's had his accuracy issues and has yet to take that 2nd step in his maturation process.

[Hawktawk]

Lamar Jackson......Dude second perfect passer rating of the year tying only Big Ben in 2007 as only 2 QBs ever in one season. 14 of 16 passing with one being a spike. Then there was that run . Im sure youve seen it.

This guy is the Lebron James of the NFL. He might be the fastest man in the league and hes put together pretty well.I think he can play like this for quite a while.

[RiverDog]

Lamar Jackson......Dude second perfect passer rating of the year tying only Big Ben in 2007 as only 2 QBs ever in one season. 14 of 16 passing with one being a spike. Then there was that run . Im sure youve seen it.

This guy is the Lebron James of the NFL. He might be the fastest man in the league and hes put together pretty well.I think he can play like this for quite a while.

We have to qualify his performance by noting that it came against a winless Cincinnati team that is a runaway train heading for a washed out bridge. But to be fair, he had a very good game vs. the undefeated Patriots, too. He's having a good season but it's still early to be calling him the Lebron James of the NFL. In my mind, Patrick Mahomes is the best of the new breed of QB's due to his throwing accuracy and keeping his eyes downfield when he scrambles.

I saw Jackson in person at C-Link and I wasn't that impressed. He looked to run as soon as his blocking broke down and missed a lot of open receivers. Let's give him another season or two before we break out the anointing oil.

[Hawktawk]

Jeezus. Anyone seeing this ?All
I gotta say is I hope we get a rematch