Breaking Down the Clowney Trade

[RiverDog]

What the Texans got:

LB Barkevious Mingo, DL Jake Martin, and Seattle's 3rd round pick in the 2020 draft. They also rid themselves of a nearly $16M cap hit they would have had to absorbed if Clowney signed his tender. The Texans have a need at OT of which apparently the Hawks weren't willing to serve one up, but the 3rd rounder put a little change in their draft wallet to help them make a trade with Miami later in the day that netted them their OT. They also avoided a potential situation like the Steelers had with Leveon Bell and the Cowboys are having with Zeke Elliott.

What the Seahawks got:

DE/OLB Jadeveon Downey, a 3 time Pro Bowler at the peak of his career. If he resigns with someone else in 2020, we should get our 3rd rounder back, albeit it a few slots lower as comp picks occur at the end of the round. Mingo was in all likelihood slated to be cut anyway and Martin at best was going to be a rotational player.

However, the nearly $16M it will take to sign Clowney apparently caused some collateral damage in that it forced us to clear some cap space and required us to part ways, at least for the time being, with our #2 wide receiver. It also caused us to make an unusual roster move to meet the 53-man limit by carrying just one QB until the trade is finalized.

As stated above, if Clowney doesn't resign we should get a comp pick, most likely a 3rd rounder. This would occur in the 2021 draft and being that we already have a bunch of picks in 2020, it allows us to essentially spread the wealth by moving one of our picks from 2020 to 2021.

This is not necessarily a one year rental. Reports are that Clowney wanted to play for us, and if he has a monster year, we may be able to resign him to a longer term deal.

That's essentially what I know about the trade. The consensus opinion is that the Texans got fleeced. I'd love to be a fly down in Houston about now as they've done some incredible things over the past 24 hours. Especially after Luck's retirement, they think that this could be their year and are pushing all their chips to the center of the table.

[c_hawkbob]

Again, nice summation.

[govandals]

According to Schefter, Texans paid Clowney 7 mil signing bonus, Seattle will pay him 8 mil in salary. Hawks promise to not tag him after this season.

[RiverDog]

Again, nice summation.

And again, thanks!

I was going to wait until next Sunday morning to hoist my 12 flag, but after yesterday, I've changed my mind and will be sending it up the flagpole this morning. Along with trading an 8th rounder for Steve Largent in 1976, of which the significance was not known at the time, this has to be the most one sided trade that we've made in franchise history.

[RiverDog]

According to Schefter, Texans paid Clowney 7 mil signing bonus, Seattle will pay him 8 mil in salary. Hawks promise to not tag him after this season.

Wow, I hadn't seen that. More frosting on the cake!

A 2nd year FT would have been hugely expensive anyway, so agreeing not to tag him doesn't hurt us a bit.

[govandals]

Yes, icing on the cake for sure! So, why did we cut ties with Jaron Brown then?

[RiverDog]

Yes, icing on the cake for sure! So, why did we cut ties with Jaron Brown then?

Good question. I haven't a clue, unless they have their eyes on another trade. Or maybe he was fooling around with someone's wife.

[mykc14]

According to Schefter, Texans paid Clowney 7 mil signing bonus, Seattle will pay him 8 mil in salary. Hawks promise to not tag him after this season.

Hmm... that’s weird. I don’t now how that would work as the F-Tag is all salary and none of it is a signing bonus. I suppose the Texans could agree to pay 8 million of his salary...

[mykc14]

Yes, icing on the cake for sure! So, why did we cut ties with Jaron Brown then?

I don’t think that is why they really cut him. I mean they only really saved 2.7 mil...

[Hawk Sista]

I’ll start by saying I love this trade for the Hawks. That said, I realize you cannot get something for nothing, but was sad to see Martin go. He was becoming a favorite. I still would have done it, just want to add that Martin is not some 3rd rate dude; he is a baller and getting better.

I know there has to be a “reason” for the Brown release; I would have called him a LOCK on Saturday am - Clowney or no. I realize he had 14 catches last year, but was the off season’s most reliable WR not name Tyler. How much was he costing? Was he a cancer? Who was he banging?

[NorthHawk]

According to Schefter, Texans paid Clowney 7 mil signing bonus, Seattle will pay him 8 mil in salary. Hawks promise to not tag him after this season.

If that's the case, it might only be a 1 year rental unless we decide on handing out another $100 million + contract because someone else will probably pay that.

[RiverDog]

Yes, icing on the cake for sure! So, why did we cut ties with Jaron Brown then?

I don’t think that is why they really cut him. I mean they only really saved 2.7 mil...

It makes it even more of a head scratcher. Brown had been working with the #1 unit all preseason long and leaves us with just two WR's that have any experience at all in our offense and working with Russell. At least from our perspective, he seemed to be playing relatively well, so something else has to be at work, a locker room issue, an argument with the coaches, something not directly related to his play.

[NorthHawk]

It might just be that they think they can re-sign him at a lower $ figure and believe the drop off in production
will be minimal and thus worth the gamble if he gets signed by another team.
Just the way the numbers worked out for him.

[jshawaii22]

We can only resign him to a lower number under 3 conditions:

#1) WE wait until after week #1 so his contract would not be guaranteed for the year

#2) He doesn't get a better offer from any of the 31 other teams (he's a FA)

#3) He's not pissed with us and tells us to go blow...

[RiverDog]

It might just be that they think they can re-sign him at a lower $ figure and believe the drop off in production
will be minimal and thus worth the gamble if he gets signed by another team. Just the way the numbers worked out for him.

Perhaps, but I have my doubts. You're talking about a projected starter that seemed to have played reasonably well in the preseason. With so many rookies that could have benefited from getting reps with the first stringers, I find it hard to believe that they would have given those reps to Brown if they didn't have plans for him this season. He fell from grace awfully quickly and for no apparent reason.

[obiken]

River the Clowney trade was a steal, we only have to pay 1/2 his salary and we give up a 3rd rounder. All this for a pass rusher who is better than Clark. Who cares about next year when the holiday bills come due, lets party!!

[Aseahawkfan]

This almost as good as the Ruskell trade that fell into our lap that netted us Earl.

[obiken]

Right, but they wanted Tim Tebow.

[RiverDog]

This almost as good as the Ruskell trade that fell into our lap that netted us Earl.

We've been the beneficiary of a number of pretty fair trades, including trading Fredd Young to the Colts for 2-#1's, Joey Galloway to the Cowboys for two #1's, and Rick Mirer to the Bears for the #11 overall. I think all of those trump the trade with the Broncos as we had to give up a #2, the #37 overall, to get their #1 while none of the players we traded did squat for their teams.

It remains to be seen just how good this trade turns out to be. Clowney could turn out to be another Percy Harvin and completely disrupt the team. But at this point, compared to the week following all of those other trades, it looks as like this one is the most lopsided trade we've executed. The worst that could possibly happen is that we traded a pretty good prospect that wasn't expected to contribute more than just a rotational player for a one year rental.

[jshawaii22]

Not to mention obtaining Stave Largent for an 8th round pick and Beastmode for a 4 & 5(?) in trades, too.

on the other hand, we traded the rights to draft Emmett Smith to Dallas for not much in return, if I remember, so it works both ways over time.

[RiverDog]

Not to mention obtaining Stave Largent and Beastmode in trades, too.

on the other hand, we traded the rights to draft Emmett Smith to Dallas for not much in return, if I remember, so it works both ways over time.

Yup. An 8th round draft choice for Largent? Insane.

But you got your Cowboy running backs mixed up. It wasn't Emmitt Smith, it was Tony Dorsett that we traded the rights to.

[jshawaii22]

But you got your Cowboy running backs mixed up. It wasn't Emmitt Smith, it was Tony Dorsett that we traded the rights to.

... my bad...

[govandals]

This almost as good as the Ruskell trade that fell into our lap that netted us Earl.

Ruskell did us a solid with that trade. We all knew, I'm sure he did too, that he was on his way out after 2009.

[RiverDog]

This almost as good as the Ruskell trade that fell into our lap that netted us Earl.

Ruskell did us a solid with that trade. We all knew, I'm sure he did too, that he was on his way out after 2009.

That trade was made by Josh McDaniels, and it was just one of the head scratchers he made as that same season, he traded up in the first round to get Tim Tebow. As in the Clowney trade, we took advantage of the stupidity of the guy on the other end of the phone.

I don't think Ruskell would have had any idea that he'd be out following the 2009 season. His handpicked coach, Jim Mora, was just entering his first season as HC and there was a lot of optimism that good things were to follow. As it turned out, the season was a disaster, Mora lost the locker room, and our FO decided they had to get rid of him. They would not have been able to attract a top candidate for HC had he not been given the flexibility to help choose the next GM and start with a completely clean slate, so TR had to go.

[NorthHawk]

Looking at the trade from the Texans PoV, it might not be as bad as some of us think or originally thought. Their biggest mistake was not dealing him before the Tag deadline or pulling the Tag and getting a 3rd round pick as compensation.
Consider they would have a player that might become a drag on team unity. Not because he caused problems, but rather because the focus from outside would be all about
him. It would always be on the players minds because it would always be brought up.
As well, they may have a lot of data on Jacob Martin and believe that he fits their system well and was a better gamble than the comp pick.
So they ended up with a prospect and a good ST player after all was said and done.

They could have got more if they had traded him before or just after the draft, but we don't know if they originally intended to extend him or not.
We got a player who might re-sign with us or might not and so it's either him or a 3rd round comp pick. So it's a 1 year rental.
The price was good, though for this year, but if we re-sign him we will have to hand out another $100 million contract.
Can we afford, going forward huge contracts for Wilson, Wagner, Clowney, and maybe Reed? Justin Britt's contract is due after 2020 and what if Ansah plays lights out, do we extend him, too?
Do we give Kendricks a big raise if he becomes a Pro Bowler? What about Chris Carson whose contract is up next year, too?
There are a lot of things to consider. It's a good place from a talent perspective, but it does have Cap implications in the coming years.

[govandals]

That trade was made by Josh McDaniels, and it was just one of the head scratchers he made as that same season, he traded up in the first round to get Tim Tebow. As in the Clowney trade, we took advantage of the stupidity of the guy on the other end of the phone.

I don't think Ruskell would have had any idea that he'd be out following the 2009 season. His handpicked coach, Jim Mora, was just entering his first season as HC and there was a lot of optimism that good things were to follow. As it turned out, the season was a disaster, Mora lost the locker room, and our FO decided they had to get rid of him. They would not have been able to attract a top candidate for HC had he not been given the flexibility to help choose the next GM and start with a completely clean slate, so TR had to go.[/quote]

Maybe he didn't know he was on his way out, but he had to have known he was on thin ice. The Hawks roster was aging quickly. His drafts in 07 and 08 were average at best. (Mebane, Josh Wilson, John Carlson, IIRC)
That trade was made by McDaniels AND Ruskell, it takes two to tango. Ruskell could have easily said no and used the pick. I give props to Ruskell for completing the trade, again, knowing he was not on solid ground.
I'm sure inside the building there was optimism for Mora, I don't recall that optimism among us fans, except for the Husky homers. Everyone knew the team needed a shot in the arm, most thought Mora wasn't gonna provide that.

[RiverDog]

Maybe he didn't know he was on his way out, but he had to have known he was on thin ice. The Hawks roster was aging quickly. His drafts in 07 and 08 were average at best. (Mebane, Josh Wilson, John Carlson, IIRC)
That trade was made by McDaniels AND Ruskell, it takes two to tango. Ruskell could have easily said no and used the pick. I give props to Ruskell for completing the trade, again, knowing he was not on solid ground.

I'm sure inside the building there was optimism for Mora, I don't recall that optimism among us fans, except for the Husky homers. Everyone knew the team needed a shot in the arm, most thought Mora wasn't gonna provide that.

Here in the predecessor forum, the old PI, Ruskell was still relatively popular until a month or so before his departure. It wasn't until well into the 2009 season that support for the Mora/TR combo began to fade, and even then, it was never below 50%. Most, including myself and Cbob, felt that Mora deserved more than one year to prove his worth. Once people came to the conclusion that Mora had to go, it was a logical extension that the GM had to go along with him. A new broom sweeps clean.

TR look horrible when you contrast him with his immediate successor. Sometimes an ego defense mechanism can be at work, telling us that we opposed the 'bad guy' and supported the 'good guy' to a much larger degree than what actually existed. Although not many tears where shed when he was let go, I don't recall any groundswell, grass roots effort calling for TR's head. His popularity was tied directly to Jim Mora's.

I do agree with you about giving TR credit for pulling off that trade. Like JS, he played a great poker hand and took advantage of his opponent's weakness. But I still say the result of that trade was due more to incompetence by McDaniel than it was a skillful maneuver by TR. The player McDaniel selected with that pick, Alphonso Smith, was a reach that no one had rated that high, was trade by the end of his first year, and was out of the league in less than 3 years. But I disagree with your assessment that he made the pick knowing that he wasn't on solid ground.

[govandals]

No ego defense mechanism here. The circle of Seahawk fans I knew were never on board with the hire.

Agree to disagree, I suppose...

[NorthHawk]

There was a Trust in Tim thread in the old PI Forum at one point, so many were on board early.

[c_hawkbob]

There was a Trust in Tim thread in the old PI Forum at one point, so many were on board early.

predominantly on the strength of drafting Tatupu.

[obiken]

Largent was pissed at trading TD, but in hindsight would Dorsett really made that much of a difference?

[RiverDog]

Largent was pissed at trading TD, but in hindsight would Dorsett really made that much of a difference?

I don't recall Largent being "pissed" about anything, especially at that stage of his career. But you're right, drafting Dorsett would likely haven't made much of a difference and might have made things worse if he was unhappy with his predicament.

[govandals]

Does anyone remember why Dorsett didn't want to play for Seattle? The organization was going into its second year, was that it? I know he went to Pittsbugh, so was it a west coast thing?

[obiken]

Does anyone remember why Dorsett didn't want to play for Seattle? The organization was going into its second year, was that it? I know he went to Pittsbugh, so was it a west coast thing?

No he wanted to play on a winning team, and not an Expansion Franchise, that's all I remember it being. He was not a sure thing out of the draft, there were questions about his durability. Moreover, he was always feuding with Landry, that would not have played well with Chuck Knox, and even less with Jack Patera, who was the coach who drafted him at the time. JP was a jerk to players.

[RiverDog]

Does anyone remember why Dorsett didn't want to play for Seattle? The organization was going into its second year, was that it? I know he went to Pittsbugh, so was it a west coast thing?

No he wanted to play on a winning team, and not an Expansion Franchise, that's all I remember it being. He was not a sure thing out of the draft, there were questions about his durability. Moreover, he was always feuding with Landry, that would not have played well with Chuck Knox, and even less with Jack Patera, who was the coach who drafted him at the time. JP was a jerk to players.

I concur with what Obi said. It wasn't Seattle per se as much as it was playing for an expansion team. The Hawks were 2-12 in their first season in 1976, with one of those victories coming against our expansion sister Tampa Bay. Dorsett was the Heisman Trophy winner and consensus best player in the draft and like Obi said, a bit of a prima donna. He saw himself as the star of a great team, not as a workman in on the ground floor of a years long project. In all likelihood, he would not have gotten along well with either of our coaches and we were wise to steer clear of him.

[idhawkman]

One aspect of the Clowney trade I haven't seen addressed is that LJ Collier (our first rounder from this year) will get to learn from one of the best DEs this year. That's an education that will pay dividends down the road if we can't find a way to sign Clowney to a long term contract after this year.

[NorthHawk]

One aspect of the Clowney trade I haven't seen addressed is that LJ Collier (our first rounder from this year) will get to learn from one of the best DEs this year. That's an education that will pay dividends down the road if we can't find a way to sign Clowney to a long term contract after this year.

Excellent point and I would add there is less pressure for Collier to help replace Clark's production. Less outside distractions.

[Uppercut]

One things for certain I am sure glad we got Clowney and not Antonio Brown.

[NorthHawk]

One things for certain I am sure glad we got Clowney and not Antonio Brown.

What a train wreck in Oakland. It makes me wonder if he really wants to play at all.

[RiverDog]

One things for certain I am sure glad we got Clowney and not Antonio Brown.

What a train wreck in Oakland. It makes me wonder if he really wants to play at all.

For a rebuilding team that just got through purging their roster of salary hogs to sign an expensive free agent running back that's on the north side of 30 makes no sense at all. Build your OL first before you bring in a veteran running back.