NFL's Top 10 QB's

[Anthony]

I don't totally disagree with you except none of.those QBs play in a run orientated system
It's hard to win anything with out a run game when the system is a run orientated system. hass played in the WCO were Holmgren had to right down to remember to pass. Wilson is in a run orientated system.

[NorthHawk]

All though I did contribute a list earlier in this thread, I think it's largely folly to try to rank QB's or any other player.
Success is determined so much by their surrounding cast, coaches and other teams.
For instance, people think Brady is the best of all time, but there are a lot of holes in that argument.
Consider his career numbers if he was drafted by Cleveland or suffered through the Matt Millen era
in Detroit. Would people still consider him as they do today? Would we still think the same of him
if there was a team in their division that actually had consistent winning seasons to challenge the
Pats? He's been the most successful QB ever, and that isn't in doubt. Be we're discussing the best
and I'm not convinced we can fairly judge the best QB's of today outside of which ones fit their team
the best and make their Offenses significantly better.

[RiverDog]

I don't totally disagree with you except none of.those QBs play in a run orientated system
It's hard to win anything with out a run game when the system is a run orientated system. hass played in the WCO were Holmgren had to right down to remember to pass. Wilson is in a run orientated system.

Oh, so now we're adding another criteria, a run orientated system? The entire league features offenses that are pass orientated. Even though we featured the most run heavy team in the league, we still passed the ball more than we ran it.

You can't be adding these little kickers to your argument, Anthony. You started out by saying that you couldn't remember a team that won a SB without a "productive" run game, then when I pointed out several exceptions, you started adding different criteria to fit your agenda, which has always been to window dress Russell.

[Anthony]

Oh, so now we're adding another criteria, a run orientated system? The entire league features offenses that are pass orientated. Even though we featured the most run heavy team in the league, we still passed the ball more than we ran it.

You can't be adding these little kickers to your argument, Anthony. You started out by saying that you couldn't remember a team that won a SB without a "productive" run game, then when I pointed out several exceptions, you started adding different criteria to fit your agenda, which has always been to window dress Russell.

Actually I also said and if I did not I should have said I stand corrected on that point. However, all that aside you can't hold it against a guy who has run game when that is how the team is designed. That like saying Brady sucks because he never had the #1 run offense. Not his fault his team does not rely on the run like we do. All that aside we have a winning record every year Wilson has been at the Qb and that includes the years with no real run game. You mentioned Hass, would he perform as well without the opportunities he got in 2015? to throw Probably not. Wilson has shown he can lead us to winning records without a run game. Thats why he is higher than Hass and many others, he can do it with or without a run game.

Sorry on vacation ad a little scattered LOL

[RiverDog]

Oh, so now we're adding another criteria, a run orientated system? The entire league features offenses that are pass orientated. Even though we featured the most run heavy team in the league, we still passed the ball more than we ran it.

You can't be adding these little kickers to your argument, Anthony. You started out by saying that you couldn't remember a team that won a SB without a "productive" run game, then when I pointed out several exceptions, you started adding different criteria to fit your agenda, which has always been to window dress Russell.

Actually I also said and if I did not I should have said I stand corrected on that point. However, all that aside you can't hold it against a guy who has run game when that is how the team is designed. That like saying Brady sucks because he never had the #1 run offense. Not his fault his team does not rely on the run like we do. All that aside we have a winning record every year Wilson has been at the Qb and that includes the years with no real run game. You mentioned Hass, would he perform as well without the opportunities he got in 2015? to throw Probably not. Wilson has shown he can lead us to winning records without a run game. Thats why he is higher than Hass and many others, he can do it with or without a run game.

Sorry on vacation ad a little scattered LOL

I didn't say anything about Hass. You have me mixed up with another poster.

The Seahawk teams without a top 10 running attack weren't very good, at least in relation to the teams before and after those years, and that includes Russell's performance within them. Winning records don't impress me much, nor do shallow playoff runs. We were a mediocre team until Pete blew up things, purged his coaching staff, and re-invented it.

IMO Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB and I see no need to try to find ways to frame him in a more complementary light. I differ from those that think his career to this point is HOF worthy and think that he's a MVP or SB MVP away from such consideration.

I hope you enjoyed your vacation. No need to apologize, despite your propensity to move the goal posts, I enjoy debating you as your propensity for stats makes me do some homework.