A Random Article From My Hometown

[RiverDog]

Second, I'm sorry but it appears to me that you absolutely do "twist myself into knots trying to downplay jarringly racist statements" where Trump is concerned but swing to the opposite field when it's a Dem. To me, what Donald said was plainly at least as bad as what these congresswomen have said. I frankly cringe at either and both. I can't understand though how you see it as nothing out of the ordinary when it's the President speaking.

I was just thinking of something along those lines when I read your comments.

Those 4 Congresswomen are minor players. They represent a very small fraction (aprox. 1/435th) of the number of those represented by the POTUS. They are not even leaders within their own party. Some of you in here are considering the 5 of them all on equal footing when they clearly are not. Everything Trump says and does is broadcast around the world almost instantly. He has to be better than them. His saying something slightly racist is 10 times worse than any one of those saying something that is blatantly racist.

So back to the outrage meter, "The Squad" is hovering around a 2 to 3 while Trump is pushing it out to a 9.

[burrrton]

His saying something slightly racist is 10 times worse than any one of those saying something that is blatantly racist.

It may be more important to call out, but it's not less racist. One neo-Nazi @sshole dropping N-bombs at a rally (with more press than Nazis) has literally zero effect on the country, but I'm not going to say he's less racist than anyone because of it.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, my quote a couple posts up really leaves that up in the air.

You need more than one statement to clear up your position. In this thread alone, you've sided with Idahawkman's analogy of "love it or leave it" as a means of excusing Trump's behavior, you've been citing semantics as a means of excusing Trump's behavior, and you've been holding up a quartet of babbling idiots as a means of excusing his behavior.

Did you read Hawktalk's linked article? Not only did Trump incite that crowd at his rally into a chant that even Trump himself was uncomfortable with, his comments are influencing others out there in the real world into thinking that because they're native born that the country is somehow more 'theirs' than those that emigrated here. That's why it's important for people like us to call out that bullshit when we see it rather than trying to obscure it or water it down with pointless nit picking over semantics or marginalizing it by pointing out outrageous comments by others sitting in the right field bleachers.

[burrrton]

Like I said, RD- I will agree it's more important to call it out, and I agree it's more damaging, etc.

If you want to have the philosophical discussion about what's more racist, however, that's irrelevant.

Excuse me now- I'm going to literally go fly a kite.

Have a great weekend, everyone, if I don't get back on.

[RiverDog]

If you want to have the philosophical discussion about what's more racist, however, that's irrelevant.

Which was my point. It's not whether or not Trump's comments were racists, it's that they were inflammatory, insensitive, and unbefitting of the leader of the free world. But I'm delighted that you're trying to distance yourself from them.

Have a great weekend, everyone, if I don't get back on.

What's a weekend?

[idhawkman]

Trump's telling "the squad" to leave the country reminds me of my old man ending arguments by telling me that as long as I lived under his roof, I'd do what he says. In other words, Trump's saying to them that it's his country and if they don't like how he does things, to get the hell out.

That's the second time you've brought your old man into the conversation. Could you possibly be assigning some of you hate to Trump because he reminds you of your old man?

[idhawkman]

Idahawkman seems to be defending Trump by using a "two wrongs makes a right" approach by citing other examples of racist remarks, a position that you seemed to have embraced as well.

No, I am pointing out your hypocrisy because you don't equally condemn both sides. You only have TDS and don't address anything on the other side.

What Trump said was highly insensitive. wrong, and yes, racist. He couldn't even be factual as 3 of the 4 he was targeting are native born.

So if that is the case, telling them to go back home would mean for them to go back to their towns and fix them first. How would that then be RACIST?

If you want to duck behind definitions of terms the way a slick lawyer would or by suggesting that others have engaged in relatively similar language in order to justify or water down what he said, then go for it.

But you're sleeping with the dogs. You're confusing your position with the stance that Idahawkman and other Trump supporters have taken to the point where I really don't know whether or not you condemn them or are good with them.

I think it is fair to say that you see racism around every corner and I only see it when it is actually there. Just because a person doesn't like an individual from another race doesn't make that person racist especially when it is the actions or words from that person that you don't like.

[idhawkman]

Which was my point. It's not whether or not Trump's comments were racists, it's that they were inflammatory, insensitive,

I know this is probably going to floor you but I agree with these two characterizations of his tweet.

[Hawktawk]

He didn't say "love it or leave it". He said "go back where you came from". Sorry no revisionist linguistic manipulation covers what he actually said. Now the fact he is saying love it or leave it is worthless and still insulting to think in this democracy subservience to Trump and his white nationalist philosophy lock stock and barrel is the qualification for residing here is revolting.

Trump defenders at any level on this forum sound like Kevin McCarthy, the reprehensible turncoat Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell etc. It was a classic dog whistle racist comment from a racist as long as he's been in public life from losing discrimination lawsuits, the famous central park 5 incidents he still refuses to apologize for, Judge Curiel, referring to Black media people and congressmen/women as "low i Q." etc etc.

You like him, his policies fine but he's still a flat out racist you are enabling on some level or another. Own it.

[burrrton]

I know this is probably going to floor you but I agree with these two characterizations of his tweet.

C'mon, ID- that's only two descriptors. Trump can't be mentioned with any fewer than seven (typically with no commas).

[Aseahawkfan]

Those tweets were racist, period. This BS talk that it was a "love it or leave it" statement is horsecrap. Trump was very specific. He saw four women that looked like non-white foreigners and crazy uncle racist decided to tweet something that would only appeal to all those pent up white folks that feel the country is being overrun by "non-white' faces that shouldn't be questioning the white man's rule. I expect Idhawkman to defend Trump. Trump could kill an immigrant baby and Idhawkman would find some way to defend his behavior, generally found on some conservative web site or Fox News.

I"m kind of surprised burrton is defending that racist trash. He's usually somewhat objective in his view. I don't see how you can see Trump's tweets as any other way than racially driven given he has never used such statements to Bernie Sanders, Hilary, or Elizabeth Warren. This wasn't shouting "Love it or Leave it." This was a group of Congresswomen with legitimate government concerns involving America told to go back to where they came from by a president that didn't even bother to see they were born here and seemed to snap judge them based on their physical appearance, the very essence of racism.

[burrrton]

I"m kind of surprised burrton is defending that racist trash.

Oh for Pete's sake- I'm not "defending" it in any way except that I thought there might be more accurate ways to characterize it than flat "racist", and my objection wasn't even that strongly against it.

I'll also point out that my pondered alternatives would hardly be letting him off the hook. A bigoted statement makes a person no less an @sshole than a racist statement.

[RiverDog]

He didn't say "love it or leave it". He said "go back where you came from". Sorry no revisionist linguistic manipulation covers what he actually said.

Those tweets were racist, period. This BS talk that it was a "love it or leave it" statement is horsecrap. Trump was very specific. He saw four women that looked like non-white foreigners and crazy uncle racist decided to tweet something that would only appeal to all those pent up white folks that feel the country is being overrun by "non-white' faces that shouldn't be questioning the white man's rule.

I don't see how you can see Trump's tweets as any other way than racially driven given he has never used such statements to Bernie Sanders, Hilary, or Elizabeth Warren. This wasn't shouting "Love it or Leave it." This was a group of Congresswomen with legitimate government concerns involving America told to go back to where they came from by a president that didn't even bother to see they were born here and seemed to snap judge them based on their physical appearance, the very essence of racism.

I agree with both those takes. I'm not sure how this diversion of the "love it or leave it" phrase from the Vietnam era made it into a thread discussing Trump's telling 4 minority Congresswomen to "go back to where you came from". It's completely irrelevant.

I'm not calling Trump a white supremist, but his comments are exactly what one would expect from a neo Nazi or KKK member who see the USA as "theirs", giving them the right to tell people of color to "go back to where you came from."

Now he's calling those that were chanting "send her back" "incredible patriots". How much further does he have to go before some of you will admit that he's a racist? Does he have to say the "N" word? What's your standard?

This stuff is dangerous, as it's giving those weak minded individuals with underlying white supremist emotions that are on the edge of becoming militant an excuse to come out of the closet and experience a sense of comfort in knowing that the POTUS shares their sentiments.

[burrrton]

Now he's calling those that were chanting "send her back" "incredible patriots". How much further does he have to go before some of you will admit that he's a racist? Does he have to say the "N" word? What's your standard?

My standard is an unmistakable demonstration that one thinks less of people of a particular race. You know- the definition of the freaking word?

Trump thinks highly of people who express support for him and has utter childish disdain for those who don't *regardless of their race*- did you think he was going to call all of those supporters @ssholes? Would any politician?

He also said he didn't like the chant (the right thing to say), and he expressed regret for his 'go back where you came from' statement (which he should have). So back at ya: how much more do you want him to say before you'll admit, however bad the tweet was, and it was bad, he might not have meant it how it came out?

This stuff is dangerous

You know what else is dangerous? Punching people with red hats, chasing them out of restaurants, etc. You don't get to lay all that on Trump.

[RiverDog]

Trump thinks highly of people who express support for him and has utter childish disdain for those who don't *regardless of their race*- did you think he was going to call all of those supporters @ssholes? Would any politician?

Of course, not. But the right thing to say would have been something like "they're basically good people that got a little carried away", or just not say anything at all. But under those circumstances, calling a group of people chanting a racist phrase "incredible patriots" was to condone their behavior.

He also said he didn't like the chant (the right thing to say), and he expressed regret for his 'go back where you came from' statement (which he should have). So back at ya: how much more do you want him to say before you'll admit, however bad the tweet was, and it was bad, he might not have meant it how it came out?

I saw him say that he didn't like the chant (that he enticed), but where did he say that he regretted his tweet? Are those his words or yours? Let's see a quote with a link, please.

This stuff is dangerous

You know what else is dangerous? Punching people with red hats, chasing them out of restaurants, etc. You don't get to lay all that on Trump.

Indirectly you sure as hell can lay at least a portion of that blame on him. He, along with the Dem/libs, each have a share, or as Trump would say..."many sides", in this current, very ugly period of time in our history. Trump is a critical component in the equation. Without him, none of that happens. I haven't seen it this bad since the late 60's with the riots and political assassinations.

I remind you, Trump was the one that started this current debate with is stupid arse tweet. You said so yourself. The Dems were imploding before last Sunday.

[burrrton]

[edit- I'll keep looking, but I might be confusing disavowing the chant with his tweet, which I think I got, ironically enough, reading twitter]

But the right thing to say would have been something like "they're basically good people that got a little carried away", or just not say anything at all.

Agreed, but you're simply asking him to restate his criticism of the chant as part of his compliment of his supporters.

Without him, none of that happens.

Oh for chrissakes. This started happening the instant he won the election. A bunch of lunatics losing their sh*t over his win isn't his fault.

Oh, and for future reference, you're not going to be able to lay it at his feet when one of them get themselves shot attacking the wrong person. We both know that's coming unless people can get a damn grip.

I remind you, Trump was the one that started this current debate with is stupid arse tweet. You said so yourself.

He started this idiotic kerfuffle, but that crap has been going on since November 2016.

[RiverDog]

[edit- I'll keep looking, but I might be confusing disavowing the chant with his tweet, which I think I got, ironically enough, reading twitter]

I was just going to say that. He regretted the chant, not the tweet. I have not seen where he has said that he regretted his tweet from last Sunday.

Good Luck!

[burrrton]

I have not seen where he has said that he regretted his tweet from last Sunday.

A cursory google search left me high and dry. You win that point- he hasn't distanced himself from the tweet.

I don't think it changes my overall point much, though.

[RiverDog]

Oh for chrissakes. This started happening the instant he won the election. A bunch of lunatics losing their sh*t over his win isn't his fault.

Not directly, of course. But did you ever hear the phrase "it takes two to tango?"

No other modern day politician would have caused "a bunch of lunatics to lose their sh*t". It's his Jerry Springer, in-your-face style that brought all this sh*t on. That doesn't absolve others on the left.

[burrrton]

No other modern day politician would have caused "a bunch of lunatics to lose their sh*t".

"No woman dressed modestly enough would have caused a guy to rape her."

It's his Jerry Springer, in-your-face style that brought all this sh*t on. That doesn't absolve others on the left.

You can't say he brought all this on, then claim you're not absolving the lunatics.

[RiverDog]

I have not seen where he has said that he regretted his tweet from last Sunday.

A cursory google search left me high and dry. You win that point- he hasn't distanced himself from the tweet.

I don't think it changes my overall point much, though.

Thank you. I appreciate your manning up. If anything, Trump has continued to embrace his tweet.

Now, to answer your question: So back at ya: how much more do you want him to say before you'll admit, however bad the tweet was, and it was bad, he might not have meant it how it came out?

If he said that he regretted the tweet. But have you ever heard Trump say that he was wrong or hear him apologize?

[RiverDog]

You can't say he brought all this on, then claim you're not absolving the lunatics.

Where was it that I said that he brought "all" of it on?

I might have said something like "he brought it on himself", but if I did (honestly can't recall), I didn't mean "all" of it.

[burrrton]

Where was it that I said that he brought "all" of it on?

I might have said something like "he brought it on himself", but if I did (honestly can't recall), I didn't mean "all" of it.

I quoted you, but you're still essentially absolving people for being incapable of acting like adults. I don't care if he called half the country dipsh*ts- that doesn't turn restaurants into wild west saloons.

[RiverDog]

I quoted you, but you're still essentially absolving people for being incapable of acting like adults. I don't care if he called half the country dipsh*ts- that doesn't turn restaurants into wild west saloons.

Alright, I see what you're saying. Sorry, I misspoke.

What I meant to say that at least to the degree that we're seeing it today, this sh*t would not be happening had Trump and his WWE style of politics not been elected. You said so yourself when you said that it's been going on since November of 2016.

Trump is part of the equation, as is the radical left. I see no contradiction in saying that both him and the aforementioned lunatics share the blame. I am not excusing either side's behavior. They're both wrong.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree with both those takes. I'm not sure how this diversion of the "love it or leave it" phrase from the Vietnam era made it into a thread discussing Trump's telling 4 minority Congresswomen to "go back to where you came from". It's completely irrelevant.

I'm not calling Trump a white supremist, but his comments are exactly what one would expect from a neo Nazi or KKK member who see the USA as "theirs", giving them the right to tell people of color to "go back to where you came from."

Now he's calling those that were chanting "send her back" "incredible patriots". How much further does he have to go before some of you will admit that he's a racist? Does he have to say the "N" word? What's your standard?

This stuff is dangerous, as it's giving those weak minded individuals with underlying white supremist emotions that are on the edge of becoming militant an excuse to come out of the closet and experience a sense of comfort in knowing that the POTUS shares their sentiments.

They are not KKK or Neo-Nazi racist comments. I've met those folks. They are way, way, way, way...a hundred times worse than what you see coming out of Trump's mouth.

I've mostly heard those comments from racist, xenophobic, and ethnocentric Americans of European descent that think if you're not of European descent you're not a real American. They don't even consider Native Americans American. They are all over the place. I used to hear them a lot when I was around more folks when I was younger. They would usually say things like "He's American" meaning white and describe other people as black or Mexican regardless of where they were born. They don't walk around spitting out racial epithets, but they know them all. They are very uncomfortable around non-whites. They know all the standard racist tropes like black on black violence even when every single group is more likely to be hurt by someone that looks like them. They feed on the immigrants are criminals talk. They generally feel inside that people should know their place meaning stay with your own and minorities are generally inferior, thus they shouldn't be in positions of power. They are also generally sexist, even the women that share the belief surprisingly. Usually they are older or not particularly educated people from areas that are naturally segregated like rural places or cities like New York (not sure how New York is now).

I'm sure you know the type of folks I'm talking about. They aren't learning an entire racist philosophy of "White Power" like the KKK or Neo-Nazies with all types of pseudo-scientific and philosophical underpinnings, but they have maintained that old America racism that just hasn't died the death it so justly deserves yet. Trump seems to be falling into that category. Never thought he was that way until those tweets. Mostly thought he was just working crowds, but that was straight up crazy uncle old school racism where you clearly show you don't see those four people as Americans.

[Aseahawkfan]

My standard is an unmistakable demonstration that one thinks less of people of a particular race. You know- the definition of the freaking word?

Are you somehow implying that is not what he did? Can you not by inference make a racist statement? Or does it always have to be clearly spelled out for you to call a person a racist?

How is implying that the women in question should go back to their crappily run countries (implying inferior people and governments) for "reasons" not racist? Especially given the statements just happen to be directed at four women who are non-white ancestry? Are you saying ideas of race inferiority cannot be implied?

Can you explain why his childish rants at white people he is angry at never seem to see them as anything but Americans? Why didn't he tell Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, or Pelosi to go back to their crappily run countries? Can you explain that if Trump's view of the women's race was not a major factor for his comments?

Please explain, I'm all ears. If you can find references to Trump doing so, I'll be glad to entertain them.

If your bar for racism is only stating you believe a particular race is inferior or demonstrating, then you will gladly allow racists to denigrate non-white Americans because I've seen them do it many times without actually stating your inferior. In fact, calling someone the N-word or any other racial epithet would not be racism in your book, even though you can tell it is quite clearly implied by using such words.

[RiverDog]

They (Trump's tweet) are not KKK or Neo-Nazi racist comments. I've met those folks. They are way, way, way, way...a hundred times worse than what you see coming out of Trump's mouth.

Different words, for sure, and lots worse. Where Trump is suggesting that anyone that's not a WASP leave voluntarily, white supremist, if they had their way, would do it by force. But he's speaking a language that white supremist can identify with.

I'm sure you know the type of folks I'm talking about. They aren't learning an entire racist philosophy of "White Power" like the KKK or Neo-Nazies with all types of pseudo-scientific and philosophical underpinnings, but they have maintained that old America racism that just hasn't died the death it so justly deserves yet. Trump seems to be falling into that category. Never thought he was that way until those tweets. Mostly thought he was just working crowds, but that was straight up crazy uncle old school racism where you clearly show you don't see those four people as Americans.

Trump probably doesn't realize it or intend on doing it, but he's giving the white supremist cover. He had an opportunity to denounce them following the Charlottesville incident and failed miserably. Now he's attacking minorities in a way that makes them proud, causes them to pump their fists, and offers them a certain degree of comfort. I worry that Trump's behavior is serving as a big recruiting poster, that it makes their movement more palatable to those lost souls looking for a way to rationalize their failings or justify their fears. I sure hope I'm wrong, but that's my concern.

[RiverDog]

My standard is an unmistakable demonstration that one thinks less of people of a particular race. You know- the definition of the freaking word?

Well, since you're being such a smart Alec, here's your definition:

racism
[ˈrāˌsizə

NOUN
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

I don't see anything that says "unmistakable demonstration".

What you're talking about is active racism. As ASF has pointed out, there's such a thing as passive racism.

If you're a sportscaster, and you consistently call blacks "gifted athletes", "natural born", or "raw talent," while at the same time calling white athletes "crafty," "clever," or "savvy" (behavior that sportscasters used to engage in), you're guilty of a veiled racism even though there is no "unmistakable demonstration."

Donald Trump is engaging in a passive or veiled racism. Sure, he hasn't come out and used the 'N' word or made any "unmistakable demonstration". Neither did David Duke. But he's still showing racist tendencies. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

[Aseahawkfan]

Well, since you're being such a smart Alec, here's your definition:

racism
[ˈrāˌsizə

NOUN
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

I don't see anything that says "unmistakable demonstration".

What you're talking about is active racism. As ASF has pointed out, there's such a thing as passive racism.

If you're a sportscaster, and you consistently call blacks "gifted athletes", "natural born", or "raw talent," while at the same time calling white athletes "crafty," "clever," or "savvy" (behavior that sportscasters used to engage in), you're guilty of a veiled racism even though there is no "unmistakable demonstration."

Donald Trump is engaging in a passive or veiled racism. Sure, he hasn't come out and used the 'N' word or made any "unmistakable demonstration". Neither did David Duke. But he's still showing racist tendencies. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's a duck.

I"m glad you see it. I've been defending Trump for a while against racism, but I know when I"m wrong.

I was surprised burrton claimed that was the dictionary definition to be honest. I knew he was wrong, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt since I don't personally believe burrton is racist. I'd prefer he just admit what Trump said is racist because it was. It was the type of comment non-white Americans deal with from some racist white Americans who don't see them as part of "their" country. I've heard it in various forms over the course of my life. It's tiresome.

I'm still not going to see burrton as racist as I don't believe he is. I do think he is deeply misguided in his view of what racism is. Telling non-whites that were born in this nation to go back to their crappily run countries is very much a racist statement showing that our president very clearly believes this is a white man's country and non-whites need to shut up and go home unless they agree with him. I can only surmise burrton doesn't have family that would be targeted in such a way. I know for certain if someone talked to my American of Latin ancestry family in that fashion, we'd likely be on the way to a fight. It's one thing to say "Love it or leave it", which I can understand. It's another thing for a man to look at someone whose physical appearance is different from his own and tell them to go back to "their" country. Those people don't have a damn clue what they're talking about.

[RiverDog]

I know for certain if someone talked to my American of Latin ancestry family in that fashion, we'd likely be on the way to a fight. It's one thing to say "Love it or leave it", which I can understand. It's another thing for a man to look at someone whose physical appearance is different from his own and tell them to go back to "their" country. Those people don't have a damn clue what they're talking about.

I think I pointed that out earlier. Trump's tweet, if said in a bar room amongst a bunch of alpha males, would have led to a serious fight. That's one of the tests one can give a remark to tell if it's racist or not. It's not unlike what a SCOTUS judge, speaking about pornography, said that he couldn't find words to describe it but "I know it when I see it."

Trump intended his statement to be hurtful and demeaning. He wanted to put those women in their place. Had it been just an ill advised slip of the tongue, he would have, after a small amount of reflection, at least acknowledged that his words were inappropriate. But saying he was wrong or apologizing isn't in his vocabulary. In his mind, he'd rather be thought of by some to be a racist than having to admit to some personal failing of his.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think I pointed that out earlier. Trump's tweet, if said in a bar room amongst a bunch of alpha males, would have led to a serious fight. That's one of the tests one can give a remark to tell if it's racist or not. It's not unlike what a SCOTUS judge, speaking about pornography, said that he couldn't find words to describe it but "I know it when I see it."

Trump intended his statement to be hurtful and demeaning. He wanted to put those women in their place. Had it been just an ill advised slip of the tongue, he would have, after a small amount of reflection, at least acknowledged that his words were inappropriate. But saying he was wrong or apologizing isn't in his vocabulary. In his mind, he'd rather be thought of by some to be a racist than having to admit to some personal failing of his.

I just get tired of these SoBs that think the only Americans that sacrificed for this nation are European ancestry. It's a bunch of crap. One of the reasons I'm so passionately American is because both sides of my family sacrificed and worked hard as Americans. Both my grandfathers were born here. One French-English-German and one Mexican-Native American. Both very hard working, independent, and supportive of this nation. Both loved America and believed in it. One had to deal with racial prejudice and one didn't. Even with the racist crap tossed at him, he never taught his children or any of us to hate anyone. He chalked it up to racists being racists and didn't paint everyone with one brush as he had plenty of white friends all his life in the Civilian Conservation Corps, the military, and working for the city. My other grandfather never taught his children to be racist either, though he never seemed to have much time for friends given how much he worked.

Mr. Big Mouth telling non-white American born folk to go back to their country is some real trash behavior, especially for a president of our nation. A nation that has been a huge beacon of hope for this world for people from all parts of the world.

I listened to that Reagan speech when he left office they were pushing out after Trump made his dumb comments. Trump couldn't hold a candle to Reagan in speech. I'm glad the nation and its values are bigger than the man leading it. He's just jackass that will be gone in 18 months to 5 years.

Even after this the Democrats still look very weak, even Biden. Trump is making "The Squad" look like the face of the Democrats. Even his racist comments are working in his favor with his base bringing The Squad that no one much likes to greater prominence as the face of the Democrats drowning out Biden and the moderate Democrats. Sometimes I really wonder if he is doing this on purpose. I really do. People say he is dumb, but I'm dubious that he is that dumb. I think he wanted to get in a fight with The Squad because he knows if they are the face of the Democrats come election time, we've got him for five more years.

[RiverDog]

I just get tired of these SoBs that think the only Americans that sacrificed for this nation are European ancestry. It's a bunch of crap. One of the reasons I'm so passionately American is because both sides of my family sacrificed and worked hard as Americans. Both my grandfathers were born here. One French-English-German and one Mexican-Native American. Both very hard working, independent, and supportive of this nation. Both loved America and believed in it. One had to deal with racial prejudice and one didn't. Even with the racist crap tossed at him, he never taught his children or any of us to hate anyone. He chalked it up to racists being racists and didn't paint everyone with one brush as he had plenty of white friends all his life in the Civilian Conservation Corps, the military, and working for the city. My other grandfather never taught his children to be racist either, though he never seemed to have much time for friends given how much he worked.

Thanks for sharing your background. I don't have any non European blood in me, but I do have a daughter that is half Hispanic and two nephews that are half black. Even though I was raised to treat everyone equally without regard to anything other than their character, the major reason I became so passionate about minority issues, particularly in regard to immigrants, is due to my associations with them at work. I'd defend them just as aggressively as I would my own kin, and they knew it. The plant I worked in was non union, so they needed an a$$hole like me to stick up for them. And they paid me back in spades, both in terms of their work as well as their friendship.

Mr. Big Mouth telling non-white American born folk to go back to their country is some real trash behavior, especially for a president of our nation. A nation that has been a huge beacon of hope for this world for people from all parts of the world.

I listened to that Reagan speech when he left office they were pushing out after Trump made his dumb comments. Trump couldn't hold a candle to Reagan in speech. I'm glad the nation and its values are bigger than the man leading it. He's just jackass that will be gone in 18 months to 5 years.

You're preaching to the choir. I get tired of apologizing for Trump. He's an embarrassment.

Even after this the Democrats still look very weak, even Biden. Trump is making "The Squad" look like the face of the Democrats. Even his racist comments are working in his favor with his base bringing The Squad that no one much likes to greater prominence as the face of the Democrats drowning out Biden and the moderate Democrats. Sometimes I really wonder if he is doing this on purpose. I really do. People say he is dumb, but I'm dubious that he is that dumb. I think he wanted to get in a fight with The Squad because he knows if they are the face of the Democrats come election time, we've got him for five more years.

Trump is stupid. A 6th grader could get more things right in speeches and tweets than he does. I'll give you that he has good political and business instincts like a ghetto thug is street savvy, but any adult that was born and raised in this country and claims that they "knew by heart" that there were airports in the 18th century is a certifiable idiot.

The Dems are weak. Biden had a big head start due to his name recognition but has been slipping badly. Of the newcomers, about the only one I'd consider voting for is Amy Klobuchar, but she's not even on the radar screen. It's amazing that none of them have figured out that the road to the White House is through the political middle of the road.

[Hawktawk]

It remains to be seen how all this plays out. Yes Trump is hell bent for leather trying to make the "squad" the face of the democratic party. As has been pointed out they aren't of course. They are marginalized within their own party and the news cycle 10 days ago was AOC wondering whether pelosi was discriminating against them because of their race. But then along came the dummy and bailed out the Democratic party from crisis and made it the republican party(Trump party) problem .And he keeps doubling down like the moron he is. To the degree he is popular it says a lot more about his rabid foaming at the mouth hard core base than him. They are dumber than him. Who is dumber, the naked emperor riding down the street naked or the people who cant tell? They are more racist than him.They actually believe the stuff he says. He doesn't have any core beliefs other than what just flew out of his mouth or off his twitter fingers.

RD is right. Trump is dumb as a post, borderline retarded or as I say in severe mental decline because he didn't sound this stupid and dense and illiterate in interviews 20 and 30 years ago.He isn't a good businessman as his 6 bankruptcies show as well as his legal fight to stop his finances from becoming public knowledge.

Hes not a good politician. He benefited from a huge field of primary candidates mamy very impressive in their own right allowing him to pick off state after state when 80% were voting against him but splitting the vote. By the time Reince Priebus and the powers that be figured it out it was too late and he still had to work to put away joker face Ted Cruz, only doing so after hiring Paul Manafort, money launderer, Russian colluder and delegate counter extraordinaire. In the general he faced the worst most unpleasant disgusting lazy compromised Democratic candidate ever. And even with the wikileaks coupled with the massive election hack and interference coordinated by his buddy Vlad as well as the Comey letter he still lost the popular vote by 3 million while eking out an electoral college victory by a total of less than 100K votes in a few key rust belt states, winning michigan by less than 10K.He's never been above water in any poll other than rasmussen at any point in his term which is a record amount of time not to have cracked 50+% and ridiculously bad considering this so called great economy..

Not sure it "the squad" will be the face of the democratic party or not come Nov 2020. This I know. Numb Nutz will be the fat bloated face of the Trump party. That's what Nov 2018 was about when the republican base turned out in force and there were still 9 million more votes cast for democrats nationwide in the biggest democratic midterm sweep in the house since watergate.Over 60 million people voted for democrats, a midterm record and all they ran on was we hate trump and healthcare.

But a word to the wise to the Democrats. They are weak, as far left of the mainstream as Trump is right. They have too many candidates, way too many. A while back I surmised that it might give them a bernie sanders which would be a general election nightmare IMO as would warren. Im beginning to think it might just give us all 4 more years of the crazy ass clown if they dont winnow this field down ASAP so whoever wins can go one on one with Trump.

Third party badly needed................

[RiverDog]

RD is right. Trump is dumb as a post, borderline retarded or as I say in severe mental decline because he didn't sound this stupid and dense and illiterate in interviews 20 and 30 years ago.He isn't a good businessman as his 6 bankruptcies show as well as his legal fight to stop his finances from becoming public knowledge.

I'm not sure if I'd be willing to attribute Trump's lack of intellect to the aging process. First off, at 73 he's not *that* old. Heck, Sanders is 4 years his senior. Sure, there's likely some slippage in mental acuity, but I wouldn't think that it would result in such monumental blunders and misstatement of fact. Some of it must have to do with his lack of preparation. Most pols will rehearse with an aid playing the role of the press asking questions they think likely to come up, but I'm certain that he doesn't do any of that. Even in his businesses, he's never really had to apply himself by working an 8 hour day.

It would be interesting to give him a Wonderlich test, see if he can beat Vince Young's score.

[idhawkman]

I know this is probably going to floor you but I agree with these two characterizations of his tweet.

C'mon, ID- that's only two descriptors. Trump can't be mentioned with any fewer than seven (typically with no commas).

LoL, love the sarcasm.

[idhawkman]

Those tweets were racist, period. This BS talk that it was a "love it or leave it" statement is horsecrap. Trump was very specific. He saw four women that looked like non-white foreigners and crazy uncle racist decided to tweet something that would only appeal to all those pent up white folks that feel the country is being overrun by "non-white' faces that shouldn't be questioning the white man's rule. I expect Idhawkman to defend Trump. Trump could kill an immigrant baby and Idhawkman would find some way to defend his behavior, generally found on some conservative web site or Fox News.

I"m kind of surprised burrton is defending that racist trash. He's usually somewhat objective in his view. I don't see how you can see Trump's tweets as any other way than racially driven given he has never used such statements to Bernie Sanders, Hilary, or Elizabeth Warren. This wasn't shouting "Love it or Leave it." This was a group of Congresswomen with legitimate government concerns involving America told to go back to where they came from by a president that didn't even bother to see they were born here and seemed to snap judge them based on their physical appearance, the very essence of racism.

So show me any other instance a racist told someone to go home and then "COME BACK". You can't ignore he told them to come back and no racist would have done that.

[idhawkman]

He didn't say "love it or leave it". He said "go back where you came from". Sorry no revisionist linguistic manipulation covers what he actually said.

Those tweets were racist, period. This BS talk that it was a "love it or leave it" statement is horsecrap. Trump was very specific. He saw four women that looked like non-white foreigners and crazy uncle racist decided to tweet something that would only appeal to all those pent up white folks that feel the country is being overrun by "non-white' faces that shouldn't be questioning the white man's rule.

I don't see how you can see Trump's tweets as any other way than racially driven given he has never used such statements to Bernie Sanders, Hilary, or Elizabeth Warren. This wasn't shouting "Love it or Leave it." This was a group of Congresswomen with legitimate government concerns involving America told to go back to where they came from by a president that didn't even bother to see they were born here and seemed to snap judge them based on their physical appearance, the very essence of racism.

I agree with both those takes. I'm not sure how this diversion of the "love it or leave it" phrase from the Vietnam era made it into a thread discussing Trump's telling 4 minority Congresswomen to "go back to where you came from". It's completely irrelevant.

I'm not calling Trump a white supremist, but his comments are exactly what one would expect from a neo Nazi or KKK member who see the USA as "theirs", giving them the right to tell people of color to "go back to where you came from."

Now he's calling those that were chanting "send her back" "incredible patriots". How much further does he have to go before some of you will admit that he's a racist? Does he have to say the "N" word? What's your standard?

This stuff is dangerous, as it's giving those weak minded individuals with underlying white supremist emotions that are on the edge of becoming militant an excuse to come out of the closet and experience a sense of comfort in knowing that the POTUS shares their sentiments.

Another supposed quote from the president but you failed again to include the whole quote where he said fix it there and then come back. Again, you can't just yell racist when he tells them to come back.

[RiverDog]

Another supposed quote from the president but you failed again to include the whole quote where he said fix it there and then come back. Again, you can't just yell racist when he tells them to come back.

Are those countries "fixable" to Trump's standards? How long do you think it would take to "fix them?"

Telling them to go to those countries and come back when they're fixed is essentially telling them not to come back until hell freezes over.

[Hawktawk]

Who is he to tell anyone to go anywhere or do anything ? F him. For me someone who trashed the constitution, colluded with our greatest geopolitical foe, calls the free and adversarial press the enemy of the people , trashes a dead war hero , that’s someone who doesn’t love America one bit. He loves golf, lining his pockets , assaulting women and making racist statements and actions . So much for making America great. It’s the least great it’s been in quite some time

[Aseahawkfan]

So show me any other instance a racist told someone to go home and then "COME BACK". You can't ignore he told them to come back and no racist would have done that.

I don't know Trump personally just as I don't know you personally or you me. That knee jerk reaction tweet was racist. It's indefensible. Not like Trump is the only one feeling that way. I've heard Trump's type of thinking from a ton of folks that are just straight up tired of the race baiting. A lot of people are tired of the political race card and white people being the scapegoat for every ill that befalls any other non-white group. Trump was sent to the White House by those people. And surprisingly those people even include a lot of minority folks who are also tired of the race card being played. And I get that part.

The Democrats don't get it, but they are stuck in their liberal cubbyhole trying to make the same things work. Every eight years or so each party builds up so much hate the next opposing party candidate gets an advantage as long as he's not some crazy Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren type. I figure if Trump wins, the Dems will find someone to beat the Republicans next time around who is middle of the road. Right now Trump is virtually unassailable. If Trump was as hated as some on here have painted, the Senate would have been flipped. But it wasn't. I wouldn't be surprised if the House flipped back given how awful the Democrats look right now.

Democrats just look pathetic. I can't think of many Americans save the most liberal and ridiculous that want Open borders, free healthcare for all immigrants, socialism with a Green New Deal, and the other trash the Dems are selling.

The New Deal was sold when America was in The Great Depression. We're literally in some of the best economic times in history and you're trying to sell a Green New Deal? Really? How bad is your timing and how stupid are you for trying to sell socialism when our economy is showing such strength? It's like me trying to sell ice during a blizzard. It's stupid.